Open 679: Jungle Oligarchy (Game OVER)

[Spade_Ace]

VOTE: Grey You are a Judas not a mason.

[Spade_Ace]

Spade because his RVS vote felt forced.

Lil tell me, what about it seems forced to you?

[Spade_Ace]

It was in reference to Greater Idea. The last game I played with grey where I was sheeping him throughout and he ended up being a Judas who claimed Saulus.

[Spade_Ace]

What does Betelgeuse mean?

[Spade_Ace]

More votes. More votes.

[Spade_Ace]

Hey Fred, nice signature

[Spade_Ace]

Hey Lucas!!... What's it read on me

[Spade_Ace]

Have played with trans, lil, grey, Momo and BTD6.

Lil seems more active compared in the initial phase compared to other games. Hydra trans seems to be writing thoughts in a lengthier fashion than usual. Grey is grey, no change.

[Spade_Ace]

Have played with trans, lil, grey, Momo and BTD6.

Lil seems more active in the initial phase compared to other games. Hydra trans seems to be writing thoughts in a lengthier fashion than usual. Grey is grey, no change.

Edit

[Spade_Ace]

Yeah, that seems about right. But its not fake. Their is nothing for me to react on being voted. It is still RVS and am used to being scumread.

Read on you- You don't waste any time. You come in and have provided your initial feel for the players. So far I like it.

Ohhh okay. Ask me something, I'll answer.

[Spade_Ace]

Is cake always this bubbly??

[Spade_Ace]

Yes, I meant cheerful. Though that makes it hard to read her

[Spade_Ace]

Getting a good feeling about Spade being Scum

~Quick

We are playing together for the first time. Hope you get used to my scumminess.

[Spade_Ace]

why do ya like momo's vote?

AND THAT'S NOT SELF META!!!! I'M JUST SAYIN' I TALK THE WAY I TALK EVERY TIME AND SCUMREADING ME FOR IT IS WRONGSIES!!!

IT'S JUST LIKE HOW GREY SNARKY SPARKIES EVERY GAME SO YA CAN'T TOWNREAD HIM FOR IT!!!!

I have decided that either you are a ridiculous hyper 5 year old or this is just an act. Nobody talks like this in real life. And meta can be manipulated. You have manipulated yours so that you can hide in plain sight.

Even if it is an act, how is it alignment indicative?

[Spade_Ace]

Yeah, that seems about right. But its not fake. Their is nothing for me to react on being voted. It is still RVS and am used to being scumread.

Read on you- You don't waste any time. You come in and have provided your initial feel for the players. So far I like it.

Ohhh okay. Ask me something, I'll answer.

But... IT WASN'T RVS!!! the reason ya got voted was cos uzi poozi said ya post sounded forced!!!! SO LUCCA HAS A POINT!!!!

No that wasn't the reason. Uzi didn't vote for me. And I expal the reason for my initial 'forced' vote.

[Spade_Ace]

VOTE: Momo
Seems to be finding easy lynched to put pressure on.

[Spade_Ace]

*lynches

[Spade_Ace]

I just like rubbing it in your face.

Town snark.

How did you conclude that?

[Spade_Ace]

@cake what are your reads?

[Spade_Ace]

I just like rubbing it in your face.

Town snark.

How did you conclude that?

+1 this... Wasn't Quick Transcendence sure Grey was scum?

Would you think differently if I said Mastin2?

~Quick

Is this supposed to mean something???

[Spade_Ace]

VOTE: SpadeAce

L2

Bad vote Hans.

[Spade_Ace]

VOTE: SpadeAce

L2

Bad vote Hans.

Why do you deserve to live, Spady? What are you actually doing to deserve not being lynched today?

No offense. But that is a stupid question. I deserved to be killed if you think am a scum not based on my activity. And if activity is the parameter, then there are others who deserve to eat rope before me.

Don't you think it is weird the way QT is pushing for my lynch without giving any reason? I have played with transcend before and he knows I am an easy lynch. If I do end up getting lynched today, lynch QT the next day. Am almost certain they are scum.

[Spade_Ace]

Spade_Ace's a fantastic vote and I fail to see why this has so much resistance.

Hmmm. Maybe if you start giving reasons the resistance might fade away. Why not try that for a change.

[Spade_Ace]

VOTE: Quick Transcendence

[Spade_Ace]

Veebs/ Chilled Tea: NULL / Scum Lean
veebs didn't talk much regarding the game other than his argument with Momo. What I found interesting though was, Veebs was hard scumreading Grey whereas chilled Tea felt grey was probably town. The differing opinion on the same person makes me think Grey and Tea slot don't belong to the same faction.
@CT in 404 you said you liked QT's opening statement about Grey. QT's opening statement was that Grey is either VT or scum. What is so interesting about that in a game where all players are either VT or Scum??? Maybe am not clear whether QT meant that grey is not a werewolf but either town or mafia. @QT what exactly did you mean?

Also didn't like the way he was engaging with me. It didn't seem as if he was trying to sort me, but as if trying to label me as scum. Didn't ask me any questions. Was just commenting on my post. Matt more or less said the same thing as ChillTea, but I felt matt was being genuine.

Lucca21: Town
I liked his entrance. He gave his reads and then started asking scumhunting questions. Gives his thoughts and observations on posts, asks questions to understand more about other player's positions. The way he engaged with SuperHans throughout the game and his confusion on Hans in 424 seem to indicate he is town. Like the way he is able to answer questions put out to him and the way he justifies his reads. Though he gave his reasons, I felt his towread on BTD6 was too quick.

Matt: Town
Liked his attempt at sorting people. Questions posed to Lucaa seem genuine. Agree with his point on Hans. Like that he gave reasons on why he scumread me, but at the same time was willing to engage with me to understand my thought process.

BTD6: NULL
Not enough posts to sort him. Have played with him once and read other games where he was part of. Never seen him as scum till now. I always get the feeling of Mr. Objective from him. Someone who is never swayed by emotion. Who only looks at facts/rules. His two posts also seem consistent with that.

LUV: Town
His changing reads on Hans seem genuine town. Liked the way he was pressurizing Hans. But I dont find him trying to sort anyone else in this game other than some early questions posed to me.

Grey:NULL
He seems to be pressurizing people but I dont find him asking questions. Last game that I played with him, he started out as town and was asking lots of questions to multiple people. But i dont find him doing that. He seems content just commenting. Still a NULL read

Fred: Scum Lean
No solid content so far. Seven posts, three votes, no reasons. His quotes in 171 doesn't support his assertion.

Hans: NULL/Town Lean
To me, he looks like a townie who says scummy stuff. A townie who is concerned about other's perception of himself and worried that others might scumread him. Can relate to it. He is quite open about his thought process. I doubt whether scum would flipflop so eaily especially when pressurized by someone else. Him defending Cake 381, also seems town indicative. It will be worrisome only if he has done something similar as Scum. Haven't read the game that Lucaa posted.

[Spade_Ace]

Will post thoughts about others later.

[Spade_Ace]

Sorry for the lack of activity. Will read and get back by today eve.

[Spade_Ace]

Hiraki, aristo, kop!!..looking forward to playing with you guys again

@grey nice work. I thought hans was town for sure. Meta helped you huh?

[Spade_Ace]

@mod

: Do mafia inherit the NK if the werewolves are killed out?

The wiki page is silent on this topic and the designer is in the game so it's kinda hard to ask. I lean towards going nightless in that case but it's presently undecided...

Does this not decide Mafia's game play? Normally in multiball, scum does genuine scumhunting in the day and kill town at night. But if it goes nightless, then scum cant afford to lose the remaining werewolf.

[Spade_Ace]

Also grey, what arw your thoughts on the mafia hit list? Would mafia be willing ro take the risk of.placing ome of their members in the list?

[Spade_Ace]

Hans: NULL/Town Lean
To me, he looks like a townie who says scummy stuff. A townie who is concerned about other's perception of himself and worried that others might scumread him. Can relate to it. He is quite open about his thought process. I doubt whether scum would flipflop so eaily especially when pressurized by someone else. Him defending Cake 381, also seems town indicative. It will be worrisome only if he has done something similar as Scum. Haven't read the game that Lucaa posted.

1. I feel like null is the most suspicious possible position you can have on a player who flipped scum. It says "waiting to see which way I need to go on this."

2. I really find it strange how he's taking Hans' most suspicious behaviors (flip-flopping under external pressure and fear of being scumread) and turning it into something scum

wouldn't

do.

I know it's hard to answer this now, Spade, but what about Hans' flip-flopping struck you as townish? You said "I doubt whether scum would do that" but why not?

1. In case you missed it. It was NULL/town Lean that is my read of him was between a neutral and town read.
2. His behavior, like 'changing votes multiple times when questioned' is something that is expected from a newbie scum playing their first game. Hans's level is "Mafia Scum", which means that he was experienced enough to know that inconsistent behavior would make him look scummy. I felt he was 'too scummy to be scum'. Also he was replying to questions immediately in real time, which seemed coming from someone with an open thought process.

[Spade_Ace]

-278 meh spade prob not WW

How did you conclude am not WW based on Hans putting me at L2??

[Spade_Ace]

In 930 you thought I was werewolf cos Hans didn't talk about me. I didn't this is a valid logical conclusion. In 960 you think am not werewolf cos Hans put me at L2. I don't understand this thought process at all.

[Spade_Ace]

@Umlaut I had a scumlean on your slot but I like your 934 and its followup 938. But your vote is misplaced. Am town. What about my response didn't you like? Cos that was what was in my mind when I had a NULL/townlean on Hans.

[Spade_Ace]

Based on reading Umlaut's 934, Spade is the most logical partner. Will be doing some work tonight into seeing more connections. Honestly didn't look at this game once the flip happened.

Total shit post!! Umlaut's 934 doesn't implicate me as the most logical partner. He gave 4 options for WW,one of which was you and he chose to vote for me. How does that make me Hans's logical partner????

[Spade_Ace]

<3 you too Lucca.
if you hadn't hammered i would have self hammered for sure.

want to hydra together at some point?

once I end some games (I have too much right now), sure.

<3

were you actually scum? holy shit

@grey are you talking about this in particular??

[Spade_Ace]

K I'm going to bed.
Hope to be dead this morning.

Partner still has a decent shot at winning this.
Give you a clue, they haven't been scum read once.

Minha pequena panqueca sorry for fucking this up.

I know this is essentially WIFOM. But i don't think as scum he will tell the truth especially after making a mistake which led to his lynch. So it is less of WIFOM and most probably the partner was someone who was scumread on Day1.

[Spade_Ace]

@Umlaut that is what was my thought process at that time. I could relate to him, as his responses were similar to the way I used to or to still some extent do when pressured. Can't help it if you are not satisfied. An no I didnt consider the hypothesis hans is really that bad.

[Spade_Ace]

@umlaut hiraki is a pretty good player. I have played with him as scum and he was excellent. I think he is quite capable of doing that.

[Spade_Ace]

-278 meh spade prob not WW

How did you conclude am not WW based on Hans putting me at L2??

Cause it's unlikely for werewolves to bus, especially on an early wagon

He unvoted me immediately. That itself should have told you am probable WW.

[Spade_Ace]

He changed his vote to omega in the next page.

[Spade_Ace]

How does that make me Hans's logical partner????

It's almost like it was my opinion of that post.

Nope not good enough. You are easily dismissing things pointed out about you. I rmbr you doing this as scum. Opinions are based on some reason.

Based on reading Umlaut's 934, Spade is the most logical partner.

You clearly stated that reading his post, I was the most logical partner. How did you come to that conclusion, when he himself hasn't said that in his post??

[Spade_Ace]

@grey i dont think anyone bitched that hans flipped scum. Either way, consider that you have double vote in this game. Am sheeping you for most part.

Do another magic.

[Spade_Ace]

Hey ari, any thoughts on the game???

[Spade_Ace]

Man, you dont seem to understand what am asking.

Okay,

To You

, how am i the most logical partner? The word

'logical'

means you had a structured thought process which led you to believe that. Am asking for that thought process.

[Spade_Ace]

I rmbr you doing this as scum. Opinions are based on some reason.

Yes, you remember me making opinions as scum.

You are easily dismissing things pointed out about you.

I rmbr you doing this as scum. Opinions are based on some reason.

Also nice job in misrepresenting me by editing out the 'dismissing' part.

[Spade_Ace]

The only thing of substance i found in your above post is this

I will answer your NEW query later today.

And am going to hold you to it.

[Spade_Ace]

PoE leaves Spade

No it fking doesn't.

This was Umlaut's list: Lucca, me, you and Fred.

You eliminate Lucca by saying that YOU DONT THINK he would make such a mistake. YOU don't think. Fine, lets just say that is part of your thought process.

Next you eliminate Fred by saying

I think Fred is scum but not werewolf.

125 and 127 are not people on the same team unless they're both ballsy players.

You first ASSUME both of us are DEFINITELY scum and then you ASSUME Fred cannot be werewolf (based on?) and that we cannot be on the same team. Well that then just leaves me as WW. Brilliant. You promised me a "Most Logical" argument and this is the MOST LOGICAL POE I have ever seen on MS.

And regarding your coaching argument.
Of course I coached my WW partner. You are so masterful. I should just give up now.

[Spade_Ace]

I haven't read the entire thread, but the pages I did read, Lucca was acting scummy towards the whole Hans business, and I was intending to wanting Luccas lynched once I got up to speed. Then it dawned on me, I replaced him. So that changes everything from what I was intending to do.

Now that I realise the situation I found myself in, in regards to how scummy my previous predecessor put this slot in, I will happily engage with you and show you that your wrong, even if that means you successfully getting me roped, but I'd rather not go down that road as it will leave you no further forward.

@Kop can you tell us what are the things you found scummy about Lucca??

[Spade_Ace]

Hey ari, any thoughts on the game???

Spade, what should I feel things about? I'll look at the things you recommend.

Regarding the lynch list, the flips, who you think Hans partner could be based on his ISO. Anything.

[Spade_Ace]

Sidenote: Hiraki's and Infinity's interactions feels fake AF. It resembles the one Hiraki and I had in Micro 672. We both were scum there.

They both probably are mafia.

[Spade_Ace]

Mafia was dumb for listing QT.

Even stranger was QT being shot.

I just don't get either of those decisions at all.

Edit

Maybe cos, one of lucca or Ari is WW. The WW would have then been forced to choose between the remaining two. And so chose QT.

Or it could be a new player who didnt read the game.

[Spade_Ace]

@AJ I agree with most of what you have said. But, I think the chances of mafia being in the hit list is low, though probable.

It's a lot of assumptions but I'd like to have a discussion about behavioral decisions made here by mafia/werewolves to get a possible understanding of the werewolf in particular. Killing their ability to night kill d2 would be just impossibly huge.

Yes, it is hard to find the remaining WW. Any discussion you want to have in particular??

[Spade_Ace]

Ari also isn't a risky player as scum iirc. I've heard his general meta is 'don't post as scum, posts a fair bit as town'.

Yes I too have heard that as Scum he usually lurks. Which is why I wanted to know his thoughts on the game.

[Spade_Ace]

But, I think the chances of mafia being in the hit list is low, though probable.

Chances can't be both low and probable.

As in low probability?? Am i wrong? Sorry, English isn't my first language.

[Spade_Ace]

Really not ok with Spade's toxicity toward me.

Am i coming off as toxic. I apologize then. I hold you in high regard as a player, esp after out game together. Am trying to apply as much pressure on you as possible.

[Spade_Ace]

VOTE: Kop

[Spade_Ace]

I don't see him being a wolf

Why not?

[Spade_Ace]

Will, Aristo is pretty much confirmed town now.

Why?

VOTE: spade

What advantage would a WW!me have by killing AJ.

[Spade_Ace]

Will, Aristo is pretty much confirmed town now.

Why?

VOTE: spade

What advantage would a WW!me have by killing AJ.

The ability to ask a WIFOM question.

Point taken.
But being the only member left in a faction, do you think i would kill someone who wasnt actively suspecting me?

[Spade_Ace]

Umlaut's case was pretty convincing for me tbh

Yeah. His case was pretty good. If it was on someone else i would have voted along with him. But I'll address the mistakes in his case later when i get time.

[Spade_Ace]

I usually dont take such extreme risks on my wincon. And i would have probably killed BTD and said that ppl are trying to frame me.

[Spade_Ace]

9 players left. 5 town, 4 scum.
Lynch me, then we probably will lose another townie at night.

Next day: 3 mafia, 3 town, 1WW

Mafia wincon.

Win condition: You win when at least half of the living players are mafia, or when nothing can prevent this from happening.

It becomes lylo tmrw.

[Spade_Ace]

@umlaut your three points on why am ww
1) Hans posts. Can't defend myself on what someone else has said.
2) my activity during my read on Hans and the one you pointed out. Pls do check my activity on the site. I haven't posted anything during that time. I received a prod on the only other game i was part of then. Which was why i also came here and did a 'prod Dodge'. It is true i didn't complete my reads list. And by the time i wanted to comment here, Hans had already claimed.
3.My read on Hans. The 'scummy stuff': i have been scumread hard on Day1 irrespective of my alignment on all games except one on MS. People say it is cos i say 'scummy/weird' stuff. This is why i could relate to Hans. I too had been extra defensive/conscious in some games to not appear scummy when i was town. This had made ppl further suspect me.

[Spade_Ace]

Are you going to help anything or are you just going to AtE and state the obvious?

Can you point out the 'Ate' in the post you are referring to????

[Spade_Ace]

1262 was me stating only facts. Where did you see emotion in that???

[Spade_Ace]

It is appealing only if i am scum which you seem to have fixed up on. The only additional info i have is my alignment which tells me that my lynch makes it lylo tmrw. Am stating facts as i see it. Which will be validated on my flip.