Open 679: Jungle Oligarchy (Game OVER)

[Hiraki]

egopost

[Hiraki]

that feel when you write a catch-up post and then it's twilight - im still going to post it but i VI read Hans tbh

[Hiraki]

Unvoted cos I felt I'd been too aggressive for such a small reason.

Yuck. I think Superhans questioning of Grey is bad but this is worse.

I ask for more details, which he could have just told me he's not going to give to me.

I need to clarify this even though the game is on Page 30ish.

Why did you think his answer would change from the first place? Why would your townread of a player who has actively told you do your own work DEGRADE once he actively doesn't help you? Wouldn't the opposite be

much

more effective for a scumread?

She uses caps and adds ies to everything, she provides content but that is still annoying

Annoying =/=Scum

Quick Transcendence is really serious about wanting Grey dead. That's very suspicious.

Can you add a scum-aligned flair to this? This makes sense for a lyncher that doesn't exist.

191 is bad and moves Frederick to a SR.

I just like rubbing it in your face.

Town snark.

How did you conclude that?

+1 this... Wasn't Quick Transcendence sure Grey was scum?

This increases my SR to 1000000.

@Mod: Thank you, after reading Pages 9 and 10.

Pleased that Veebs and Momo have been replaced as they were definitely lynch bait, however, I think Momo's behaviour in particular was very indicative of scum. ChaosOmega is a more experienced player, so I'm sure there will be more towny content, but I'll be wary to town clear the slot anytime soon.

This is forced.

well duh

lots of stuff you could be talking about, and instead you pop up to say hi or something.

It's Page 12 - what do you expect him to have at this point?

294 is great because it's everything that I'm thinking.

Agreeing with 346, unfortunately. VI is floating around in my head. This means more votes on Frederick are coming...right???

I generally try to avoid OMGUS attacks because I think it is petty.

But this sets me back to lynchville. Either you aren't aware with OMGUS actually means (probable) or you just didn't think of it being justified in the moment.

382 screams VI again. Riley is TR. I'm gonna land on the VI read.

She said this same exact thing when she was scum in DBZ mafia.

Said the same thing in a game where she was town with me.

viewtopic.php?t=70148&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

There is no defending that bullshit.

This is 100% true and something I want to keep an eye out for. I think the actions are scummy but created by a town player. Anyone who is trying to justify that they are genuine town players should be examined.

Ooooo finally someone is seeing Frederick scum like me. Thank you Transcendence. I agree with that readslist but I would put Riley higher. Not highest TR but up there.

I then scrolled to 531 and died a little inside. I can't join a Luca wagon but I can definitely do a Frederick wagon.

There's probably a 0% chance I'll get Grey out of his tunnel though.

If my last game with Grey was any indication, hold my beer

This is the same scumass that got slaughtered on d1 in Open666, so... yeah.

I will read this after posting and if I agree with you, you have my vote 100%.

They call Fred out for his lack of activity, but give both PimHel & BTD a pass.

Yeah but Frederick made scummy posts.

Since he is hammered and scumclaimed, I'm just gonna believe y'all on the meta stuff and put a little bookmark for the next time I ever play with Hans to meta read the shit out of him.

Reads list that may be wrong and I just want to get out there before the thread closes:

Quick Transcendence (hydra of LicketyQuickety and Transcend) - lean town
BTD6_maker - tiny tiny lean town
ChaosOmega - null?
Lil Uzi Vert - TR
lucca261 - TR
Fredrick E Campbell - scum
mattblackguy - leaning scum
Spade_Ace - not hans' aligned but maybe probably the other side (i know I touched briefly on spade_ace interactions)
Riley Cake - TR
chilledtea - Null
-Grey- TR

I have too many TRs. Woo. I will also use scum interchangeably with werewolf until a distinction can/should be made.

[Hiraki]

When does useless = scum?

[Hiraki]

You're definitely not town-reading him.

[Hiraki]

You're definitely not town-reading him.

What makes you think 846 has any bearing whatsoever on my read of Lucca?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding - are you responding to my TR on Lucca or Lucca himself?

Oh, what games were we in together, Hiraki?

I've forgotten.

Nightman

[Hiraki]

Darklyn is still mafia btw.

I was conflicted between tea and Hiraki being Hans' partner until

I hate self-defending against nothing but since you claimed your intention to state something of that sort, I don't know how you get to that conclusion based on what I posted unless you think I'm eligible of making that much of a loss of an opportunity.

Is Riley always like this?

Just because you have a question, doesn't mean you should ask it right away.

@Infinity: Any reason that your "catch-up" into this game seems to be just making forced correlations between Hans and Riley?

How does that stuff come from town?

It's NAI.

I don't like having to retype everything

No one likes reading your thoughts post by post. Especially when they become more and more useless.

Hans isn't going to put his buddy as top-tier town or bottom tier scum.

bit of a strange conjecture

I agree.

Based on reading Umlaut's 934, Spade is the most logical partner. Will be doing some work tonight into seeing more connections. Honestly didn't look at this game once the flip happened.

[Hiraki]

Because you're not reading my posts?

You literally missed the entire point of this question. Congrats!

It's NAI.

I just explained why it's not...

Feel free to quote where /you/ explained.

Then don't, because it looks stupid if you wait until it's obsolete to speak up.

I didn't wait until it's obsolete.

Well speaking of uselessness, this post seems to be full of it.

Nice discredit, man!

[Hiraki]

Because town wouldn't want more votes, it feels like scum pretending not to care

Thanks for explaining it. Please don't be an ass next time. Still NAI btw.

Agreeing with 959 although I need a Lucca re-read because I think I skimmed him and then gave him a dumb TR (as in I was dumb)

[Hiraki]

I haven't voted for that sake Umlaut. Quicklynches are the new norm, unfortunately.

[Hiraki]

Are you seriously unwilling to put someone at L−4 at most because "quicklynches are the new norm"?

Considering that it has happened in at least 2 games where the wagon took less than 2 hours, yes.

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=70616

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=70233

Call it hasty or being too safe - that's fine. I'm not going to budge until everyone has gotten input. It's not like I've been silent about who I SR either.

[Hiraki]

In review, I'm using the word wagon subjectively but it doesn't really make a difference.

[Hiraki]

???????????????

This is your first time speaking about your potential SR of me. I'm not saying that's bad - I'm saying that you're acting like I can't do anything about it unless I please you and I'm not about that game. All I did say was that your argument was illogical toward what I had actually done from my viewpoint.

I don't even understand what this obsolete argument has to do with anything.

[Hiraki]

YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE INTERESTED IN CONTINUING IT.

Yes -

I

am the only one interested in figuring out why you have a potential SR on

me

.

That enough is important for me to ask.

[Hiraki]

953 implies obsolete in time rather than in substance. But I'm glad that you could've explained that in a normal fashion and read as hard as you want everyone to read your posts so that this was clarified.

[Hiraki]

I still don't see where I'm making correlations between hans and riley though.

@hiraki

I'm not going to argue with you about this because there is a clear denial on your part that you were forcing it to some extent.

[Hiraki]

How does that make me Hans's logical partner????

It's almost like it was my opinion of that post.

If Hiraki is scum then this was a pretty gutsy response

Trust me - that is NAI. I have no problem being ballsy if it means that I'll call someone out on their own shit.

I still owe what I said before and will deliver.

[Hiraki]

I rmbr you doing this as scum. Opinions are based on some reason.

Yes, you remember me making opinions as scum.

How did you come to that conclusion, when he himself hasn't said that in his post??

OK - I'm sorry that I have to really go down this simple here. There are clearly implied things that I say when I make the statements versus when someone else makes the statement.

Here's the "correction":

"Based on reading Umlaut's 934, Spade is the most logical partner

(TO ME)

."

[Hiraki]

you didn't ask that. You literally said:

" when he himself hasn't said that in his post?"

Now if you said something to the effect of:

"How did you come to that conclusion?"

OR

"Why do you think this?"

Then you would be correct. Instead, your argument is phrased to the tune that my interpretation of his post is what I think HE is thinking. I will answer your NEW query later today.

Also nice job in misrepresenting me by editing out the 'dismissing' part.

Yes, because that was clearly the most relevant portion of the post. I am dismissing EVERYTHING.

I want to know what you meant and where it happened, but you keep dodging the question.

I already answered this with my opinion on the argument and I have no further intention of continuing this argument.

[Hiraki]

Posting what I promised:

I really like 934 because it does a lot of work for me.

Note that lucca himself pointed out that we should rule out people on the Hans wagon, but included himself on the clear list.

At the time, I thought little of this. Now, it's more relevant. I think Lucca is a better player than to make a mistake like this as a werewolf. While he never called it a mistake, it is clearly a mistake.

This leaves Spade, myself, and Fred.

I think Fred is scum but not werewolf.

125 and 127 are not people on the same team unless they're both ballsy players. I don't know much about Frederick but I do know, especially based off of the last few pages, that Spade is not a ballsy player. That being said, if Spade does flip mafia, we still go here essentially only for 609 where after pages of not posting, Frederick pops in and talks about Spade. Kop has said nothing thusfar.

PoE leaves Spade but my biggest argument is this coaching aspect:

VOTE: SpadeAce

L2

Bad vote Hans.

VOTE: SpadeAce

L2

Bad vote Hans.

Why do you deserve to live, Spady? What are you actually doing to deserve not being lynched today?

No offense. But that is a stupid question. I deserved to be killed if you think am a scum not based on my activity. And if activity is the parameter, then there are others who deserve to eat rope before me.

Don't you think it is weird the way QT is pushing for my lynch without giving any reason? I have played with transcend before and he knows I am an easy lynch. If I do end up getting lynched today, lynch QT the next day. Am almost certain they are scum.

Hans's level is "Mafia Scum", which means that he was experienced enough to know that inconsistent behavior would make him look scummy.

This is the only place where you get a hint that Spade knew what he was dealing with. When I play games, I can tell by posting - not by the person's post count - if they know what they're doing in this game.

In contrast, here is Momo who has a

Goon

rating, which in Spade's terms means that he has to be lower than Hans in terms of quality. Here are the posts on him:

Even if it is an act, how is it alignment indicative?

That is NOT something that you say to someone that you think is a newbie.

VOTE: MomoSeems to be finding easy lynched to put pressure on.

Again, there is a distinct difference in ability here but Spade acts as if there is none.

[Hiraki]

I still don't see where I'm making correlations between hans and riley though.

@hiraki

I'm not going to argue with you about this because there is a clear denial on your part that you were forcing it to some extent.

[Hiraki]

I'm claiming scum! Woooo!

[Hiraki]

Masterful...how did he do it...

[Hiraki]

Wow...I don't think I should play anymore if you're going to be using some of those expert scumhunting techniques!

I never knew that an argument over LITERALLY NOTHING could be alignment indicative...damn...

[Hiraki]

Where was it an accusation?

Did I read you?

Did I even say anything bad about it?

[Hiraki]

(The answer is no btw so that's why I'm ending this argument prematurely too, thanks for reading)

[Hiraki]

"Even if it's not (an accusation), it doesn't matter"

"Town would be able to explain it (is not an accusation) even if it was a dumb mistake"

[Hiraki]

But...he said that if I didn't (because I clearly can't) show the correlations he made...I'm scum...what else could I do??

[Hiraki]

OK so a better question is that if you have so much information on me then why are you staying on this topic (which is clearly not a very argument) and not forming a case rn?

So claiming that, you think that'll make everything OK and you will be left alone?

Do you think I'd be left alone if I gave my explanation?

Infinity starts arguments for the sake of argumenting. I have no intention of feeding into his bait.

[Hiraki]

So if I give you my explanation, you will not:

A) Question it
B) Make a witty remark about it
C) Do ANYTHING but READ it

[Hiraki]

Nope, I'm still not feeding. Just wanted proof that you want the explanation rather than to argue about my intentions. Thanks for clarifying that. Feel free to SR me but I'm not cluttering this thread with your nonsense further.

Vote: Spade

[Hiraki]

-Grey-, I'll entertain you just to get this game moving again. Especially since Kop isn't doing much for his slot.

Vote: Kop

[Hiraki]

Such a masterful player!

Vote: Spade

[Hiraki]

It may not be argument as such, but I'm stating that your suspected, claiming that, doesn't exactly help your case.

I am suspected for "concealing" information about something that doesn't matter. I don't read Infinity because he said that. I don't even care about it. The only person who does care about it is Infinity and it's for reasons that are not alignment indicative.

I also got that information from the following:

Right now, if I had my way, I'd drive you to the grave,

not just all of what you have been suspected for

, but this post alone. I don't like the thought of the game progressing and having that doubt behind this post.

[Hiraki]

Right - which means that you have something to suspect me for that has nothing to do with me claiming scum in response to Infinity's arguments, no?

[Hiraki]

@Infinity

Ok but you can't put me in a Werewolf pile because I posted a defense of Hans after he scum claimed. There are hundred of better reasons for me to make a post over night rather than post about it during the time. Either Werewolf me did it for credit (which is dodgy at best) or I made a mistake. It would not surprise me if you thought that highly of your abilities and as little as mine, Infinity.

The fact that you'd think that town edits their posts more than scum is absurd. It's NAI and scum do it more than town.

Join date really doesn't mean anything for VI purposes, you're proof of that.

[Hiraki]

I don't like Ari's entrance either but I am biased.

[Hiraki]

You are so masterful, I should just give up now!!!!!

1) Town doesn't do ANYTHING more than scum in terms of editing. That is just a stupid tell. I was making a catch-up post after REPLACING IN.

2) I called him VI. That's not saying "oh! He is town now! Don't you see how townie he is????" - VI implies that he IS scummy but he will flip town.

3) There was no discredit.

4) I'm glad you talked about the point I made where apparently I'm just stupid scum for deciding to post something that is incriminating me right now - oh wait! Doesn't fit your agenda if you thought about that too hard!

[Hiraki]

Really not ok with Spade's toxicity toward me.

[Hiraki]

Fine, lets just say that is part of your thought process.

Yes - please don't start shouting at me when

I

talk about

my

thought process as if I am the Pope. It really doesn't help my read on you when you're acting like this way to my accusation - someone who you already think as scum. If I am scum, then the overreactions are not necessary. Similarly:

Am trying to apply as much pressure on you as possible.

There's no reason to "apply pressure" on someone you think and have proof is scum. You should be convincing others with doubts at this point. I don't feel that you are doing that.

You first ASSUME both of us are DEFINITELY scum and then you ASSUME Fred cannot be werewolf (based on?) and that we cannot be on the same team.

Based off of posts 125 and 127 which I reference in my post. You could've easily clarified this but are deciding to shout at me and also add the question in there as a just in case.

You're fabricating a read on me and it's not hard to see based off of how you're talking to me. It starts with:

"WHAT??? WHAT DO YOU MEAN? THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE - except for this tiny thing!"

The worst offense is that you have doubts in your mind and questions that you want me to answer while also accusing me of those sorts of deals. While Infinity's logic is VI, at least he's not asking fundamental questions at the same time. That's the difference between your two attacks. -Grey- is just doing his own thing and I hope he will stop playing around soon. I think Ari just voted with the top wagon and I am eagerly awaiting her catch-up.

You promised me a "Most Logical" argument and this is the MOST LOGICAL POE I have ever seen on MS.

This is also just useless and not needed.

I'd like to re-quote this, once again:

"Based on reading Umlaut's 934, Spade is the most logical partner (TO ME)."

Additionally, just so you stop coming after me in the current fashion (which is borderline making me want to leave), I'll remind you that you asked for my thought process.

Okay, To You, how am i the most logical partner? The word 'logical' means you had a structured thought process which led you to believe that. Am asking for that thought process.

So don't start calling me names when I give you exactly what you asked for and then you start deciding that you really didn't want it in the first place.

They both probably are mafia.

This is the interesting part when placed in reference to:

@Umlaut I had a scumlean on your slot but I like your 934 and its followup 938. But your vote is misplaced. Am town.

If that's the case, what did you like about 934 and 938? Is there something that you disagree with? Usually when you have a scumlean on a slot and then it changes to town, it's not just because they put in effort.

[Hiraki]

Remember when you denied having an SR on me and then you decided to act cool and reveal that you had a SR on me pages later?

[Hiraki]

AJ you can't say that I'm not a wolf and then say that the wolf is a late replacement. That's literally the current case on me less Infinity's null but not really according to him tells.

[Hiraki]

I think he's mafia but I'm ok with this

Vote: Kop

[Hiraki]

That is L-1

[Hiraki]

Why on earth would we follow your reads list religiously?

[Hiraki]

Ari you don't strike any confidence in me when you vote me and then decide to vote the next highest wagon.

[Hiraki]

OK but everyone is saying that you lurk in your scum meta and you are seeming to lurk

do you have any comment there because you've clearly avoided talking about it

[Hiraki]

Or say something nice and then hammer

[Hiraki]

Infinity is VI AJ, just look at why he's SRing me.

[Hiraki]

hi

[Hiraki]

vote: spade

Phoneposting

[Hiraki]

I don't see why wanting a lurker slot dead (sorry Ari) is a hard question.

[Hiraki]

@grey, what do you think about BTD6?

[Hiraki]

will he make ur list next????????????????????????

[Hiraki]

Nope, although there's not too much emphasis about my opinions on your reads.

[Hiraki]

I had a large post written up but I think N_M is much much much more probable for WW rather than scum and WW didn't forget kill but decided not to kill in order to help town and their faction's win chances.

@Umlaut he will just refer you to that one time where I decided not to go into a frivolous argument that had nothing to do with my read on him and everything to do with his posting habits

[Hiraki]

you could check literally any of the games where i replace in and comment on everything rather than comment on the current gamestate but w/e, i'm not continuing this argument

post-edit: "wagoned"

Hiraki (3) : -Grey-, Infinity 324, Aristophanes

top-tier wagon and arguments were great and very hard for me scumboi ass to defend

[Hiraki]

how do you get the wolf read?

[Hiraki]

Ari who are your TRs atm

[Hiraki]

N_M, my biggest worry is the difference between your attitude here and DoubleDay. Can you comfort me? I think this game is best solvable by finding my TRs and lynching outside of them.

[Hiraki]

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=70233

[Hiraki]

but this is literally LIKE that game right now except you're not showing any remorse for your actions

[Hiraki]

N_M has been talking elsewhere.

Vote: N_M

This is L-1

[Hiraki]

Totally infinity!!!!!!!!

@Mod: I will PM you

N_M the problem is that you're not helping anyone and you're not even voting anyone. You've effectively stalled the game JUST like Double Day. If you do flip town, there is a decent case that you are playing against your wincon.

[Hiraki]

And you're making it very obvious why you're doing that.

[Hiraki]

Grey - you

know

that was sarcasm.

[Hiraki]

I agree with Grey on Infinity and N_M. My VI read is gone from Infinity.

[Hiraki]

Ari loses the TR for not including to SMASH that like button (among other reasons that won't be gone into considering this is a mobile post)

[Hiraki]

We could just get infinity who I can give the Hiraki guarantee (a step higher than the -Grey- guarantee) will flip scum?

Vote: Infinity

If anyone wants to 1v1 right here right now about me because y'all apparently got cases and reasons for days against me, I'm ready

[Hiraki]

just saying there's been no quickhammer - it's me or him (the world will never be the same)

[Hiraki]

*him or me

[Hiraki]

in case im wrong (which I'm not and I will lead everyone to victory) - i'm going to go into full meta - remember that infinity has literally been going on a read since like D2 or whenever and his case is garbage (which is why no one followed it and never will)

his flinch now is absolutely the last thing a stubborn town would ever do

[Hiraki]

Unvote

just so I can REALLY get into this

[Hiraki]

Superhans

(7) : ChaosOmega, Lil Uzi Vert,

Riley Cake

,

-Grey-

, BTD6_maker,

Quick Transcendence

,

lucca261

(Lynch)
ChaosOmega (2) : chilledtea,

Superhans

-Grey-

(1) : Frederick E Campbell

Spade_Ace

(1) : mattblackguy
Lil Uzi Vert (1) : Hiraki

Quick Transcendence

(1) :

Spade_Ace

Not voting: None

Kop

(6) :

-Grey-

,

Aj the Epic

,

Spade_Ace

, Lil Uzi Vert, Hiraki, Not_Mafia (LYNCH)

Spade_Ace

(4) : Umlaut,

Kop

, Infinity 324, BTD6_maker

Spade_Ace

(5) : Infinity 324,

-Grey-

, Hiraki, BTD6_maker, Not_Mafia [LYNCH]
Not Voting (4) : Aristophanes, Spade_Ace, Lil Uzi Vert, Umlaut,

-Grey-

(5) : Not_Mafia, Infinity 324, Umlaut, Lil Uzi Vert, Aristophanes (LYNCH)
Not_Mafia (2) : -Grey-,

Hiraki

Not Voting (1) : BTD6_maker

I bolded so it's a little easier to read.

People on EVERY lynch but one:
- Lil Uzi Vert
- Not_Mafia
- Infinity

People on EVERY lynch but two:
- BTD6_maker
- Hiraki

Honestly - I would be OK with Lil Uzi or Infinity. N_M voting first on Grey speaks volumes toward his participation after his dumb hammers that make me really want to never play with him again. BTD6 maker is OK. If you notice, Ari and Umlaut are not on either of these.

Ari is usually not voting for most of this game due to inactivity. His hammer on -Grey- from a VCA analysis point scares me but that is very objective. Umlaut has been on one lynch wagon and that was yesterday. If he's managed to be mafia and avoid being on ALL of the lynch wagons less Grey's then kudos. I've been very pleased with his play even when he said he was going to find a connection between me and Grey. There's more shot for these two to be the SK from a purely objective standpoint.

there should be 100% consensus that Umlaut and Ari (my clear scumbuddies :):):) ) should not be lynched today and anyone who disagrees should give some really really REALLY good reasoning)

I realize that I have a short drive for this so I will go into Lil Uzi and Infinity's ISOs tomorrow. I've noticed that I've just blantantly ignored Lil Uzi and just hoped that he's town. VCA isn't making me very good about that anymore.

Feel free to correct me anywhere or draw your own conclusions about the current vote counts and sorry for the spam.

[Hiraki]

I'm ok with Lil Uzi today. I haven't done my full due diligence but he's contributed nothing to the gamestate today.

[Hiraki]

I'm ok with Lil Uzi today. I haven't done my full due diligence but he's contributed nothing to the gamestate today.

This is a really laid-back attitude to have at lylo.

I'm 80% sure on Lil and 100% sure on infinity

I just haven't really looked into Lil's interactions

[Hiraki]

Vote: Infinity

I am BANKING on N_M being town here.

[Hiraki]

everyone of them but you i believe

[Hiraki]

i didn't want to call you out too early but if i got infinity lynched and he flipped scum, i would come after you and uzi next (so we still would've lost but 2/3 and maybe werewolf)