Open 692 - Two-fold Matrix6 (Game Over)

[CommKnight]

Wooot, in the highest replaced slot.

[CommKnight]

Any claims I should be aware of? I've skimmed through enough that for now I'm happy where my vote currently is.

[CommKnight]

Yeah I'm a Werewolf Roleblocker. You know, doing my werewolf things. Sniffing out the scum.

[CommKnight]

oldwino, killed Night 2, was a

Town Stalker

Town Wizard	Vanilla Townie	Werewolf Goon
Werewolf Roleblocker	Town Seer	Town Guardian
Town 1-shot Elder	Werewolf Goon	Town Stalker

Just in case someone actually takes me seriously.

[CommKnight]

But for real though, have night kills been discussed (and lack thereof). Because both N1 and N2 a night kill was obviously stopped.

N1 WW's made a kill but Mafia's kill was stopped. With a stalker flipped, WW's don't have a roleblocker, meaning Jailkeeper, Doctor or 1-shot bulletproof happened. Ideally the jailkeeper blocked the person making the kill who isn't Raya and knows who final mafia is.

N2 not sure which faction got blocked, but I assume WW's since we DO have either a Guardian or 1-shot Elder alive and mafia would have shitty luck being blocked twice in a row!

[CommKnight]

Why bring it up now instead of letting them fall into the trap?

Should've voted me then if you wanted to make it a trap. Otherwise it looks all winky-face nudge nudge deal.

Also I'd have to facepalm anyone who actually thought there was a WW roleblocker in play with the Stalker dead.

[CommKnight]

Now we get a down grade fantastic.
We should lynch Comm because he's an annoying player.

Or we can just lynch Vedith and help him out with his personal quarrel.

Also I thought about that but would jailkeeper jail the same person twice in a row?

[CommKnight]

Since the mafia kill was clearly blocked N1, yeah.

True. But then why not out who it is? If the mafia kill was blocked two nights in a row we kinda need to know who it was.

[CommKnight]

Also the two primary holders of that slot both scumread me

You realize he replaced Kan and I replaced Mario yeah?

[CommKnight]

Oh I thought my vote was on Lang (who I wouldn't mind lynching).

VOTE: Not_Mafia - The voters on him don't look too bad and Vedith TR's him. Usually enough to SR this slot. Plus gut says it's scum bailing out where he hasn't really contributed.

[CommKnight]

Because I'd rather lynch WW and let the JK take care of mafia.

Is this a claim that NM is mafia?

[CommKnight]

Ah fair enough, but he could still be WW. Claiming a PR runs the risk of a real PR counter claiming. So that I believe would be illogical to do for any scum. Their smartest move would be hide in the VTs for as long as possible.

[CommKnight]

Oh? And what makes Mafia Goon more likely Umlaut?

[CommKnight]

VOTE: WhyMafia I still want to know why Umlaut thinks mafia is likely 2 goons at this point.

[CommKnight]

Wow, this game has been going sooo slow lately I didn't even notice 2 days pass.

I'm waiting on the lynch though. Nothing has changed my mind about lynching one of them.

[CommKnight]

@CommKnight, Should we do PR/VT claims only? Yes/no.

No. In a game like this with 3 scum alive from 2 killer factions, claiming PR only serves to let them off our PRs.

[CommKnight]

@CommKnight, Should we do PR/VT claims only? Yes/no.

No. In a game like this with 3 scum alive from 2 killer factions, claiming PR only serves to let them off our PRs.

So what? We'd get three conftown for a day worst case and the town PR that stopped nks can be even more direct.

We don't even know if it was the same person stopping these NKs hopefuly the jailor if we have one keeps jailing the same person and somehow drops a hint if we ISO them if they were to die, but other than that outing today only serves to help scum. With this many town alive even WW's would probably help mafia in taking out the PRs before turning on each other.

[CommKnight]

Better than losing a PR I guess.

[CommKnight]

Actually leave Thor alive. Werewolves do NOT have a roleblocker and thus leaving the confirmed mafia alive makes them risk their life. (Maybe WIFOM a Guardian protecting Thor to keep him playing ball and the wolves paranoid of offing Thor right away).

I wouldn't mind hearing if Thor is roleblocker or goon however.

I think Something_Smart IS town. So that leaves:

Umlaut
Aristophanes
Lang Buddha
Vedith
Judge Joseph Dredd

for Werewolves. 2 of the 5 above are a wolf. I'll go with WhyMafia's words and VOTE: Aristophanes Buddy is probably either Umlaut or Lang.

[CommKnight]

@CommKnight, Should we do PR/VT claims only? Yes/no.

No. In a game like this with 3 scum alive from 2 killer factions, claiming PR only serves to let them off our PRs.

So what? We'd get three conftown for a day worst case and the town PR that stopped nks can be even more direct.

We don't even know if it was the same person stopping these NKs hopefuly the jailor if we have one keeps jailing the same person and somehow drops a hint if we ISO them if they were to die, but other than that outing today only serves to help scum. With this many town alive even WW's would probably help mafia in taking out the PRs before turning on each other.

Like how could a PR ever drop a hint CommKnight?

Please tell me if you're town you've

begun to work on your listening skills.

Quickwagon Thor!

Also in case there's any doubt about Thor being last mafia. This was Titus' hint to me.

[CommKnight]

VOTE: Umlaut I can do either Aristo or Umlaut, maybe we should tie Thor's kill to someone so if someone else dies instead of that person, we know to lynch Thor for not playing ball.

Thor is not being lynched today. He's been outed to the Werewolves. He HAS to play ball or his faction will auto-lose. The WW's CANNOT leave him alive so you will see the WW's attempt to lynch him today. Smart town is going to defend Thor because he's going to draw almost every single night kill and so long as we have a Guardian in play we can potentially deny the wolves of ANY chance to take out the threat to them.

So voting Thor today will not be tolerated one bit.

[CommKnight]

I trust anyone who would vote Thor in this situation is a wolf. Thor is dead without town so he can no longer work against us until both wolves are dead. Because if he does, he'll be open season for town AND Wolves.

Aris could very well be the other wolf, but Umlaut is playing very wolf like right now.

[CommKnight]

I'm fine with chaining Thor's shot to either Aris or Lang to be honest. I'll sort you and Something tomorrow based on flips. But Umlaut NOT dying today is a big mistake for town.

If Thor goes rogue and shoots someone not of who we ask him to, then it's auto-lose for him because he's auto-lynch tomorrow. If WE as town guess wrong then Thor has a chance of winning. That is the ENTIRE point for him to play along. If we as town cannot figure out WW's, mafia is left a chance to win it. THAT is what keeps him playing to our side. He'll still require us to take out one WW for him to even have a chance of winning though. So it's a gambit. If we nail both WW's we lynch him and town wins. If we get one WW but not the other, he NK's them and mafia wins. If we don't manage to get ANY WW's then WW's win.

That is fair, that is final. Anyone trying to deviate from this I will tunnel without mercy.

Even Thor will see the logic in what I am suggesting here and he WILL play along. Because he does want to win as well. But he can't win by fucking us over intentionally (because we'll take him down with us). But if WE fuck up and give him wrong targets to shoot, then he might win this.

I'm set on Umlaut lynch today. But who we pick for the night kill we do need to plan. Maybe if Umlaut flips town, we get Thor to hold the shot until tomorrow night but if Umlaut flips werewolf, he shoots the person we tell him to?

[CommKnight]

VOTE: Aristophanes

^ Most of dead townies wanted this dead and WhyMafia did request I follow onto him. Plus this is a better lead than others at the moment.

[CommKnight]

Everyone who have been wanting him dead have died and flipped town. It's either him or Umlaut today.

[CommKnight]

Can't go into detail since it's an ongoing game but I got experience with him and he might actually be town. Not that his reads are any good mind you, but he might be town.

[CommKnight]

I think mafia killing Aris tonight benefits both mafia and town. So I think we should leash the shot onto Aris.

I'd like to think SS is town, but doubt it crawling its' way up there. I don't see Lang being wolf or mafia this game. Umlaut, then Aris tonight. That should nail wolves hopefully.

[CommKnight]

Honestly hoping SS is town here. Otherwise wolves and mafia are talking to each other.

[CommKnight]

Thor, I hope you know there is no WIFOM situation here. Titus is jailer and has outed you as scum. There should've been two kills every single night. But Titus kept jailing you and thus until she died, you couldn't do shit.

She wouldn't have dropped those hints if you were town or he had doubt bud.

I think Lang, Judge and Vedith are town this game. Which means the two wolves is likely in Ari/Um/SS. That's what I believe.

[CommKnight]

You know, I'm thinking about this all wrong. If we lynch Thor today, we don't need to worry about him gamethrowing to fuck town over. It'd also put us with 6 people tomorrow alive assuming wolves get a kill through. (Could be a Guardian out there or even 1-shot Elder).

Then tomorrow we'd have one mislynch available to us.

Also in case I do not survive tonight. I say the Elder/Guardian (only if they must claim) should only claim PR. Why? Because the Werewolves will not know whether they're a doctor or bulletproof. Meaning if they shoot them, they might waste a shot on a bulletproof and give town TWO mislynches. Same as if they're a doctor and shoot elsewhere.

VOTE: Thor

He talked his team out of a chance to win. I like the idea of leashing the shot if the situation was more dire than it is right now. But it makes more sense to eliminate one faction and gain the potential for 2 Mislynches available to us in case we guess wrong for wolves.

[CommKnight]

Hey Umlaut, try keeping up with the facts bud. Eliminating one faction now would give us more wiggle room and it's not that dire of a situation if we are to take into account the Guardian/Elder PR still alive. We'd risk shooting them with mafia and they'd be useless. Getting rid of mafia now would take away the chance of accidentally killing the PR that could potentially give us an additional lynch to use.

The question is, are you against this? If so, why?

Keep up with the train of thought, don't fall off the back.

[CommKnight]

VOTE: Thor

I'm fine with this, I just think it's funny that you were ready to lunch me over it before.

New train of thought + relooking at outcomes = lynch the known scum and eliminate one faction.

Also to note, Thor would have to claim a PR and go uncountered at this stage to survive today's lynch. There is simply no wa

[CommKnight]

(Not sure what I pressed but guess I found a quick-post button for the forum).

Anyway. There is simply no way Thor is not scum. Titus is smarter than that and she wouldn't have crumbed it if she wasn't certain on flipping him when we seen the crumb.

But let's say for some odd reason we were able to stop the wolf kills for 2 nights. Who's to say Thor isn't a wolf? He's just as likely to be wolf at this point as him being town. Which means flipping him is the right thing to do. It either puts us in position for a 1v1v5 or a 2v6.

I'm willing to bet though that Thor is indeed the mafia.

Fastposted. Yes I'm going to ignore you SS. Get your head out of your ass and vote Thor. I have half a mind to leash the shot to you if Thor isn't lynched today just in case you ARE a wolf trying to keep him around.

[CommKnight]

Stop being a damn idiot SS. TItus and WhyMafia read me as town before they died. It's time to get this ball rolling and actually get scum. Not be a dipshit because people won't answer your damn question more than twice.

Titus is mafia. Kill him. Gives TOWN the advantage.

[CommKnight]

Give me a moment, I need to reread Titus a bit better. I didn't get to see her early day interactions like most of you did. I came in pretty late to the battle there. I will say that Judge might have a point and if so it actually gives Thor quite the opportunity to be town/WW instead of mafia. (I say WW because outside of being mafia the two are just as likely).

Now for me, the reason I think Thor is mafia is because as scum I wouldn't avoid killing. I mean that makes little sense but in the game with Lang recently, Vedith did some no kills that I would assume Vedith wouldn't do, because I sure as hell wouldn't in a 2v9/11 whatever it was and we nailed his buddy D2. So he got very lucky. Also the people he killed didn't make sense for a person regular at the site to make. So he duped us.

Then there's the flip side, Lang, well in that game I'd compare his reads to that of a secret traitor. Because they were sooo off and he kept doing his "mang" and "muddafukka" to the point he was just annoying and lynch bait. (Which he was lynched).

Now saying that, I do want to go back and ISO Titus and see if my opinion changes. While I won't be a fool and say it's impossible, with me as scum the no kills would be highly unlikely. It's just not something I'd avoid doing as scum.

[CommKnight]

Ooh a confession. You are the last mafia Thor.

Also, I have a husband, so sorry on Thor Titus sex.

Mix this with Titus' second post into the game where she does the voting. I think it's safe to assume her slot did block Thor, then Lang then Thor again. However SHE was certain on Thor being mafia. This last post of hers was very clear on that read.

WhyMafia was certain on Ari being WW.

I put both of those reads above living players at the moment because there's 3 of you who don't want the right reads for town today.

Also I did forget Titus replaced into the game as well. But her ISO is pretty damn clear and I am going to follow it. She died for a reason, maybe the Werewolves picked up on it, maybe the mafia picked up on it.
a
Also as to explain why I seem to have "insight on kills". Well that's a slip on your part. I, like any townie who is actually looking at the roles possible knows that it's more likely jailkeeper prevented the mafia from shooting than a Guardian's target be protected twice or Elder getting shot.

Also not killing N1 was a big no-no. I don't think even mafia would avoid killing N1, that puts them at the disadvantage.

So while I like Judge's theory about Lang. I don't give Lang enough credit to think through not killing to set Thor up. It also makes zero sense to go against the flipped Jailkeeper's top push. She wanted Thor dead, he dies today.

Sorry guys, but my read on this isn't changing. It's the right thing to do and second guessing that will lead down the path to a town loss.

[CommKnight]

I think we should massclaim BP/not BP

This might be what Titus was hinting at when she wanted to claim PR/not PR.

But whether we got a BP or not doesn't prove for or against which one is mafia.

[CommKnight]

That makes zero sense, walk me through what you're saying.

[CommKnight]

@ss: actually if there is a bp then the case on lang falls apart as the 2 goons things becomes not a slip
however im fully convinced it was a slip and thus i say there is no bp and it was a solo jk all along
i thus would agree to claim precisely bp/not bp meaning the elder if existent should claim no bp

Ah, I get it now. You make a better case than SS and Thor. They could learn a thing or two from you.

I'm not BP.

[CommKnight]

Also I'd like to note while the BP/Not BP is going around that we still are hunting the wolf pairs to lynch tomorrow.

Something_Smart
Umlaut
Aristophanes
Vedith
Judge Joseph Dredd

^ In this 5 I feel comfortable saying the wolf pair is 100%. I'm leaning town on Judge so for me it's more those 4 and I'd like to think Vedith rolled town this time around.

[CommKnight]

VOTE: Lang Like I said. Judge does a better job at giving a case than others.

Also no one claimed BP, so Judge might be right and mafia may slipped with the goons.

[CommKnight]

We should've just lynched Thor. Wolves made the right decision in killing me because I was looking toward JJD after Lang's flip. He would've been in the boiler if I survived the night.

[CommKnight]

Don't NL in 5p lylo kiddos....

^ This... I'm just trying to figure out why town didn't light a fire under their ass for even suggesting a NL in LYLO...

[CommKnight]

You know, they're not wrong. The only thing that said to me you were town was similar bad play from last game Lang.

Like I made the case for you being town based around you BEING lynch bait town.

Your play is what got you lynched over Thor.