Open 696: Cosmopolitan [END]

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Creature

rvsomgus

[havingfitz]

I'm not really voting Creature (his lie is nai to me) but I'm not sure where I want to vote and unvoting isn't an option. So I'll vote Snarky who has none.

VOTE: Snarky

[havingfitz]

VOTE: comm

Do you actually suspect Comm or did you just want it ofc Osuka? And did you or do you suspect Osuka?

[havingfitz]

Why the director's commentary?

I felt a little commentary was warranted given the no unvoting aspect of this game.

Why are people voting Steel? The no lynch vote? I thought that was a clever compromise to not being able to unvote.

Steel...do you currently advocate a NL or is there just no one you feel like voting atm?

VOTE: Paul
I really dislike the pgo claim idea.

[havingfitz]

Nah dont suspect Comm. I

So for you unvote compromise you chose to make Comm tied as the #1 wagon vice someone with no votes.

What are you thinking wrt Osuka atm?

[havingfitz]

vice someone with no votes?

So for you unvote compromise you chose to make Comm tied as the #1 wagon instead of just moving to someone with no votes.

I.e. why leave nullscum to put someone you don't suspect closer to a lynch?

[havingfitz]

Mod...I'm voting Paul.

Ja

[havingfitz]

Mod...I'm voting Paul.

1.) Thoughts on Assemble soft?

2.) Why aren't you voting Assemble?

1. Hilarious crumb fail.
2. I was catching up. Noticed mod error before crumb fail.

Since there is no way Assembler doesn't flip scum and therefore no night...no sense in putting off hammer.

VOTE: Assembler

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Not the real Paul for prevous reasons given.

Not sure on iiSq. Need to read D1 again.

V/la till Monday for usual weekend rl.

[havingfitz]

No night tonight so breathing room for town.

I had Virtuoso locktown so gambit did that for them at least. Though it probably just made him a team A target barring team B insight or targetting pgo.

Nice job Comm drawing a shot.

VOTE: NTRP

[havingfitz]

Are you sorted? Why limit sorting to players based on what I assume is post count?

[havingfitz]

Thoughts

Or he was the obvious target and scum were trying to avoid the same kill. Luckily for them they didn't both target Comm who was a decent town read.

Osuka may have been threatening to team A. A bit wifomy but worth consideration.

[havingfitz]

I don't think this makes sense, because I think if anything Fireball was obviously not B but could have been A

You think A would have outted B? I don't. But I assumed B wouldn't out B either so

[havingfitz]

If CommKnight was killed for his reads...
This looks bad for:
iiSq5024, Flubbernugget

Slight suspicion on:
Steel, SnarkySnowman, havingfitz

Comm was shot by mafia B. So the above gives no credence towards a scum A (only scum left) person killing Comm out of fear.

[havingfitz]

sorry idk whats going on. i'll reread over weekend

Please lynch this player ffs.

[havingfitz]

Post weekend prodge. Catching up.

[havingfitz]

NotTheRealPaul is town I guess

Why?

[havingfitz]

NotTheRealPaul is town I guess

Why?

[havingfitz]

Well yesterday was no post explosion. Ffs.

Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

[havingfitz]

Maybe you can talk to me about Paul then. Why is that slot scum?

Paul...


Well...I thought the pgo claim idea was terrible and only beneficial to scum. In no way could that suggestion have been pro-town.

Discounting his (and everyone else's) presence on the D1 obvscum lynch...he had votes on me (town), Creature (town lean IMO), osuka (flipped town albeit I suspected him) and Comm (fairly obvtown IMO). So his D1 voting record was terrible.

I felt like he active lurked. Came in...made an appearance...made promises...did nothing.

D2...voted you (are you town?) and contributed to mislynch of nykus. Of the 4 people alive who voted nykus I'm comfortable with one being gauranteed scum and perhaps a second (depending on how the Paul slot flips).

His replacement made at least 1 decent post iirc but that doesn't wash away the actions/inactions of her predecessor.

[havingfitz]

Why are you defending Paul? And how do we know scumPaul was involved in deciding Osuka's nk? There are two scum left. He could have been absent or swayed by a partner. Who knows?

[havingfitz]

Well..I've already said I think there are 1-2 scum in the group of iiSQ, Steel, Flubber and Paul/Mary.

A very quick and easy ISO of Steel and Flubber shows neither has done much. (as is the case with seveal players...myself included).
I didn't care for Steel's reasoning for joining the nykus mislynch wagon but otherwise he has some decent posts. If one of them is scum I would lean Flubber and regardless...I do not think they would be scum together. So maybe one but I doubt both. They have voted together today and yesterday so that's a point of interest.

SnarkySnowman seems to point suspicions towards both Steel and Flubber but then after the Assumbler autolynch he (Snarky) stays away from both the Steel and Flubber wagons and opts for Paul.

I have a hard time with Snarky because he is like this in every game I play with him. He is always AWOL. A no show. Makes very little contribution. So usually my suspicions towards him feel more like a policy lynch type situation.

The other two...Flubber and Steel have a few spots where they feel town but a general lack of posting/content makes developing a scum read more advanced than 'let's policy lynch the lurkers' difficult to come to.

Where as Paul actually did things I find suspect/anti-town. I prefer that slot to lurkers who remain a bit of a mystery and who might end up getting replaced by a more active player (please gawd let any replacements not be Titus).

[havingfitz]

Catching up sounds like hard work.
Give me the updates. Why is Flubber not scum?

The game's not that long. Read it and form your own conclusions ffs.

[havingfitz]

No, that's hard work.
Give me the TLDR and I'll town lock you for today.

25 pages isn't hard work.
I'm not going to defend Flubber. I don't know what his alignment is.

I've given thoughts on him recently which you'd see if you read. Your opinion should matter to you more than mine.

[havingfitz]

There is a distinct scum motivation behind what Flubber is doing.

Could you elaborate? Or link to where this was explained?

[havingfitz]

You can't see the scum motivation behind not posting any content?

That sounds like LaL. How is he any different from the others not providing content?

At least he didn't push for a pgo claim and promise a lot of content he never followed through on.

[havingfitz]

For emphasis?

[havingfitz]

Weekend over. What's up?

[havingfitz]

Weekend over. What's up?

Fitz, talk to me about your vote on Mary.

- Jules

Sure....

[havingfitz]

Havingfitz, are you willing to hammer Flubber?

He's avoiding the thread at this point and it's stalling the game. And Game Replacement isn't going to hammer him either.

Is he posting actively elsewhere on the site?

I still prefer NTRP/Mary and the fact that slot is voting Flubber makes me less interested in the Flubber wagon.

I'd consider it over a NL at deadline probably.

[havingfitz]

Voting result

4 votes
Flubbernugget

voted by

iisq5024, Creature, Mary Saotamel, Snarky Snowman

---

2 votes
Snarky Snowman

voted by

Flubbernugget, Steel,

---

1 vote
Mary Saotamel

voted by

havingfitz
iisq5024

voted by

Game Replacement
It takes 5 votes to lynch.

2 days and 6 hours remaining.

Mod...you show Steel voting Snarky and Steel's replacement voting iiSQ.

[havingfitz]

Bussing is a thing. Why does Mary scum rule out Flubber scum in your eyes?

Scum are down to two and with the added bonus of going nightless...I can't see scum wanting towncred that badly when there are other decent wagons (even if the last two scum were amongst those being consensusly sr).

[havingfitz]

Mary/iiSQ/Game are all on the Flubber and nykus mislynches.

1-2 of these players are scum.

Of those three I'm leaning town on iiSQ so imo 1-2 of Mary and Game are scum.

I lean town on Creature for gut and what I am perceiving as genuine effort.

Snarky could be scum...and he was the leading counterwagon to Flubber...and heavily advocated as scum by Flubber...but I'm not as confident on Snarky scum as I am with 1-2 of Game n Mary. He posts so little I always hope he gets replaced or eliminated somehow.

I don't know what to make of J&V. iirc they have produced some good content but then at times they feel like they are awol. And backing off on Snarky when he was at L-1 despite starting the wagon seemed like they either knew Snarky was scum and wanted to avoid VCA shade or they knew Snarky was scum and the bus got too hot for comfort. So J&V and Snarky could be scum together but I do not think a flip by either helps clear up the alignment of the other. Of the two though I think I would lynch J&V over Snarky for how they handled the D3 Snarky wagon.

This is where I'm at for D4:

havingfitz
Creature
iiSQ
Snarky
J&V
Game
Mary

VOTE: Mary Saotome

[havingfitz]

Hm didn't expect flubber to flip town with an Iso like that also forgot night gets skipped so that's great for us

I hate these type of post flip comments.

I don't have any confident scumreads so I'll do some reading

You were suspecting J&V, iiSQ and perhaps Creature (?) when you first joined.  Post 559  Are they still your top suspects?  And is Snarky a tr for you?  Better yet...could you just provide your reads?

would like some reason behind that vote by fliz given all he has said is "My slot was on 2 ml's"

As iiSQ mentioned...I have provided my reasons for suspecting your slot on more than one occasion.  And iirc...the only reason you allude to, "My slot was on 2 ml's," was 1) not something I said and 2) was only an added consideration today (D4) whereas I have been suspect of you since D1.  .    So when you use quotations to list the

only

reason I suspect you and it's not even something I actually said...it makes me think you are being lazy and just making shit up.  Or at the very least not reading since I have provided my NTRP/Mary suspicions more than once.

As for the "if I felt that strongly I'd have tried to get you lynched before today comment"....you might recall from your ~reading that I have been voting you since late D1, with only a slight break in that vote to help lynch secret message fail scum on D1.

Also...there is no one in this game called "fliz" as far as I can see.

[havingfitz]

iiSQ....where are you at wrt JV and Snarky?

And Mary?

[havingfitz]

And the congratulating the doctor tell is very weak.

I agree this is weak. Not even hardly worth considering unless it comes from someone already under suspicion.

[havingfitz]

And the goon thing was a reference to my title... I made my 100th post and so my title changed.

[havingfitz]

Mod et al...I will be v/LA from 3pm EST this afternoon until Monday morning. I expect to be without any internet access so I don't expect to post.

[havingfitz]

v/LA over. Will effort to catch up today.

[havingfitz]

That was quick.

I'm annoyed Mary isn't getting more suspicion.
I like Game for option B. Plus his wagon is all my townreads iirc.

I'd ask for last words but there's nothing to claim and he's been trolling a bit imo. No reasoning provided....just baseless pushes.

Who the fcuk cares in 5 words or less?

1. Not. 2. I.

VOTE: Game Replacement

[havingfitz]

VOTE: jules

I 100% have to sheep creature now

What if Creature was wrong?

What is your take on Mary?

[havingfitz]

Wow....slow start. I'll try to get my thoughts posted today.

I still suspect the NTRP/Mary slot but I'm trying to figure out who her partner would be if she is scum. And if not...what pairs do make sense.

Not in any rush to vote.

[havingfitz]

Looking forward to hearing thoughts from both of you.

Both? You mean everyone? Including yourself?

[havingfitz]

Sorry...3 day holiday weekend has me RL pre-occupied. Will catch up nlt tomorrow.

[havingfitz]

Wow. Crickets. Ok...no orher on site or RL distractions for the next several hours. I'm re-engaging.

[havingfitz]

Also...Mary is due a prod and everyone else is within 6 hrs of one. Lol...

[havingfitz]

So I thought I would start my game refresh with a look at voting over the past 4 days. There are 7 possible scum teams left fmpov and I want to see which ones I can reasonably eliminate to help out scum.

D1: Nothing really stands out for me here. Once Assembler screwed up in epic fashion his lynch was on cruise. Not sure anyone on or off the D1 lynch deserves any credit or shade. Especially given that hispartner was revealed the following night. Also...none of the 5 remaining players did anything IMO to shine light on how they may be connected (or not) to each other.

D2: J&V and Snarky both push the NTRP/Mary wagon up to L-1 where it stays for about half a page. I do not see scum partners starting a wagon on their known partner when both town!nykus and tbd!iiSq were available alternatives.

This tells me more than likely...if Mary is in fact scum...iiSq is the most likely option to be her partner. This fits in well with (iirc) iiSq's tr towards the Mary slot most of the game. I do not see Mary as a partner to J&V or Snarky. NTRP does put iiSq at L-2 on D2...but this could be bussing a partner that looked to be going down with the ship. Waiting for one more vote on iiSq would have required NTRP to hammer his partner for bus cred. Luckily for iiSq (and Mary?)...Fireball unvoted iiS2 off L-2 and shifted their vote over to NTRP. If iiSq and Mary do wind up being the scum team this will be
good post game banter with Fireball given their votes on both of them. I also find it interesting that both Mary and iiSQ are on the same wagons D1-3. Assembler D1 (no brainer) and D2 mislynch D2 mislynch.

D3: J&V vote Snarky for a short time but once Snarky gets to L-1...J&V unvotes within 4 game posts. If anything I think this ties them together and potential scum mates. Not sure why J&V don't join another wagon when they exit Snarky. NTRP, who they had voted most of
D2, was at 2 votes as was the eventual (mis)lynch...Flubber.

D4: Mary never places a vote. Myself, iiSq and J&V are all on the (mis)lynch...Game Replacement. Snarky does put iiSq at L-2 in favor of putting Mary at L-1. This could be Snarky bussing a partner while avoiding both (mis)lynches...Game and Mary.

D5: Snarky opens up with a vote on J&V to start Day 5. If scum on scum this could be a bit risky but it was over night and Snarky was quick to unvote when posting began to ramp up the following day. I do not think it was likely to be a town on town vote as J&V was exposed to a QL for exactly 15 hrs. If scum couldn't accomplish that at the start of D5 then they do not deserve to win.

In VCA summary:
iiSq has been on every lynch. D1

Assembler

, D2

NYKUS

, D3

Flubber

and D4

Game

J&V has been on one (mis)lynch D4

Game

, and ended the day on D1 havingfitz, D2 Mary and D3 No Vote.
Snarky has been on D1

Steel/Game

, D2 Mary, D3

Flubber

and D4 iiSq.

And fwiw, I've been on D1

Assembler

, D2 Mary, D3 Mary and D4

Game

tl:dr;

I think the two strongest possibilities for scum teams out of this VCA are iiSq and J&V AND Snarky and J&V.

iiSq +

J&V

=

STRONG

J&V

+ Snarky =

STRONG

iiSq + Snark = possible
iiSq + Mary = slim
J&V + Mary =

NO WAY

Snarky + Mary =

NO WAY

I want to do a NTRP/Mary ISO before I give up on that slot completely...but I think my VCA is pointing to Mary not working as a team mate with anyone and in favor of a J&V lynch as they are strong partners with both iiSq AND Snarky.

[havingfitz]

FYI: VCA is weakened because of multi-scum. Town-points are too easily given out like candy.

Thanks for the vca lesson. /sarcasm

You may note that my vca doesn't take scum team A (orB?) into consideration. I'm only looking at remaining players interaction with each other and on D2 lynches forward.

Did I give easy town points somewhere?

I don't want to disregard my scumreads entirely but votes don't lie. They give player's real commitment. iiSq has gone from tr to suspect while Mary has gone from sr to tr (pending iso). As for you...iirc you were closer to a sr than a tr for me so suspecting you post vca is not major reversal.

[havingfitz]

I noticed that too.

Havingfitz's sudden reliance on VCA is weird (especially for someone who came out of nowhere and hammered a mislynch) and I feel like there's a decent chance he's distancing J&V, especially since I just called them out as the most likely team. J&V's reread is fine so far (no strong feeling either way) but I want to see the rest of it.

Sudden? That's lame shade. VCA before today would have been much weaker. Yesterday miiight have been an option but I just didn't get to it. Today was optimal. Not "sudden."

Are you distancing J&V as well

[havingfitz]

I'm growing to like a Snarky/Fitz scum team at this point in time, but I need to give the entire game a good read when I get a spare few hours where I can go through it with Vincent.

- Jules

I you haven't completed a reread....what is causing you to suddenly consider a Snarky/me scumteam?

Snarky could be scum but it's not with me. And I seriously doubt with Mary. If Snarky is scum it's with you or iiSq.

[havingfitz]

I'd like to know more on this myself I'm a bit shocked fliz isn't voting me he seemed to have some type of turning point.

read

[havingfitz]

For the enlightenment of town...and not so much J&V...I will address J&V's re-read comments directed/asked at me.

Post 866 - When you say I haven't shown my cards what are you referring to? This nothing more than weak shade. At this point in the game (Comm's statement which you link to) I was in the middle of my usual weekend v/LA; we were only in the 5th RL day of the game; and we were already approaching the end of D2 of the game. And yet I had established NTRP as my main suspect both D1 AND D2 at this point and had participated in the D1 scum lynch (granted it was a given). So what cards did you expect on day 5 of the game? A detailed list of everyone I suspected or townread with rationale and references? That is not how I roll. At least not that early in a game.

Post 868 - Why do you ignore my post SIX posts later where I devote a large post on why I suspect NTRP to iiSq? And if I suspect someone I CAN constantly advocate for someone's lynch. And non-alignment indicative is in the eye of the beholder. If you do/did not like any of the reasons I gave for suspecting NTRP in my Post 574 then you are free to your opinion. At least at this point (D3) in the game I was actually voting someone. Unlike you. Were you hiding your cards?

Post 869 - What is confusing about my Post 711? My reads on most of the players still in the game were pretty clearly explained At this point of the game (early D4) anyone was still possibly scum imo. Thus the "Snarky

could

be scum" line. And likewise...the "J&V and Snarky

could

be scum together" line.

What do these suspicions have to do with the fact I thought there was a better chance either Mary OR Game were scum? This post by you appears to be making something out of nothing. My D4 reads list speaks for itself and speaks clearly at that.

Though I did note one typos. When I said "you either knew Snarky was

scum

and wanted to avoid VCA shade" it should have said "you either knew Snarky was

town

and wanted to avoid VCA shade."

As for pushing a wagon with no wheels (Mary)...Mary was most certainly a strong contender. NTRP hit L-1 on D2 and for a time on D4 was the leading wagon (with YOU and I on it).

Post 803 - What is your point? I've been pushing Mary 3.5 days and so on D4 when the only wagon getting any support (which you started I might add) is the trolling lurker Game who I have expressed suspicions of. What do you do if your main scum read is not getting any support? You let your vote languish there or you go for option 2. Which in my case was Game. No regrets on my part (aside from him being town).

And if you have issues with Snarky's intentions this game towards Mary that on you. I haven't really been tracking what other people have thought of everyone else other than to track votes. Without going back and looking I couldn't tell you how anyone other than I have felt towards others this game. Aside from iiSq who I know has been town reading NTRP/Mary most/all of the game.

p.Edit

Post 875 - I would not expect scum to like my VCA. Why is it so inconceivable to you that I would take the latest information I have into consideration when determining my reads? I do a VCA on D5 taking all the information I have up to that point in the game and it makes me rethink the suspicions I had towards Mary. Suspicions which you yourself (referenced earlier in this post) say are NAI and should be a reason to suspect someone. So when I finally get information that makes me think I was wrong and I explain....it doesn't make sense. WTF?

As for keeping you and Snarky "within arm's reach"....I do not post enough to make elaborate cases against a host of suspects. I typically tunnel on one or two suspects and unless something game breaking reveals itself...I do not veer course. My scum reads tend to get more focused as games progress as they should for everyone. My VCA took my focus off Mary. Any of you could still be scum. My shift of probabilities has just been readjusted. Your incredulousness over this is simply because I've gone from a Mary focus to a J&V focus. As I would expect.

Post 876 - To beat a dead horse again...you are restating the same thing. I suspected Mary's slot most of the game. We are in D5. There have been flips. I have done a VCA for my own scum hunting purposes. My focus has shifted off Mary. Not confusing at all.

[havingfitz]

For the enlightenment of town...and not so much J&V...I will address J&V's re-read comments directed/asked at me.

Post 866 - When you say I haven't shown my cards what are you referring to? This nothing more than weak shade. At this point in the game (Comm's statement which you link to) I was in the middle of my usual weekend v/LA; we were only in the 5th RL day of the game; and we were already approaching the end of D2 of the game. And yet I had established NTRP as my main suspect both D1 AND D2 at this point and had participated in the D1 scum lynch (granted it was a given). So what cards did you expect on day 5 of the game? A detailed list of everyone I suspected or townread with rationale and references? That is not how I roll. At least not that early in a game.

Post 868 - Why do you ignore my post SIX posts later where I devote a large post on why I suspect NTRP to iiSq? And if I suspect someone I CAN constantly advocate for someone's lynch. And non-alignment indicative is in the eye of the beholder. If you do/did not like any of the reasons I gave for suspecting NTRP in my Post 574 then you are free to your opinion. At least at this point (D3) in the game I was actually voting someone. Unlike you. Were you hiding your cards?

Post 869 - What is confusing about my Post 711? My reads on most of the players still in the game were pretty clearly explained At this point of the game (early D4) anyone was still possibly scum imo. Thus the "Snarky

could

be scum" line. And likewise...the "J&V and Snarky

could

be scum together" line.

What do these suspicions have to do with the fact I thought there was a better chance either Mary OR Game were scum? This post by you appears to be making something out of nothing. My D4 reads list speaks for itself and speaks clearly at that.

Though I did note one typos. When I said "you either knew Snarky was

scum

and wanted to avoid VCA shade" it should have said "you either knew Snarky was

town

and wanted to avoid VCA shade."

As for pushing a wagon with no wheels (Mary)...Mary was most certainly a strong contender. NTRP hit L-1 on D2 and for a time on D4 was the leading wagon (with YOU and I on it).

Post 803 - What is your point? I've been pushing Mary 3.5 days and so on D4 when the only wagon getting any support (which you started I might add) is the trolling lurker Game who I have expressed suspicions of. What do you do if your main scum read is not getting any support? You let your vote languish there or you go for option 2. Which in my case was Game. No regrets on my part (aside from him being town).

And if you have issues with Snarky's intentions this game towards Mary that on you. I haven't really been tracking what other people have thought of everyone else other than to track votes. Without going back and looking I couldn't tell you how anyone other than I have felt towards others this game. Aside from iiSq who I know has been town reading NTRP/Mary most/all of the game.

p.Edit

Post 875 - I would not expect scum to like my VCA. Why is it so inconceivable to you that I would take the latest information I have into consideration when determining my reads? I do a VCA on D5 taking all the information I have up to that point in the game and it makes me rethink the suspicions I had towards Mary. Suspicions which you yourself (referenced earlier in this post) say are NAI and should be a reason to suspect someone. So when I finally get information that makes me think I was wrong and I explain....it doesn't make sense. WTF?

As for keeping you and Snarky "within arm's reach"....I do not post enough to make elaborate cases against a host of suspects. I typically tunnel on one or two suspects and unless something game breaking reveals itself...I do not veer course. My scum reads tend to get more focused as games progress as they should for everyone. My VCA took my focus off Mary. Any of you could still be scum. My shift of probabilities has just been readjusted. Your incredulousness over this is simply because I've gone from a Mary focus to a J&V focus. As I would expect.

Post 876 - To beat a dead horse again...you are restating the same thing. I suspected Mary's slot most of the game. We are in D5. There have been flips. I have done a VCA for my own scum hunting purposes. My focus has shifted off Mary. Not confusing at all.

[havingfitz]

Pardon the repost. Connectivity issues this morning.

[havingfitz]

Also this is terrible post. Speaking of lame shades, look at that last line...

The last line was sarcasm. Pointing out the hypocrisy of your weak insinuation.

What I said was true. It WAS sudden, in that you went from not doing VCA to relying almost exclusively on VCA. J&V's question was a good one; what caused you to disregard your previous reads completely? The weirdness comes in the fact that you used a completely new method to push a completely new scumread without really explaining why you switched.

VCA is not a new method. Just because I do one D5 and react to its results doesn't make it sudden. VCAs need data to be worthwhile and that takes time. Did you expect a D2 or 3 post stating my intent to do a VCA? That would be stupid.

And I've shifted focus before based on VCAs. I recently finished a game with Snarky (he was replaced) where I used VCA in MYLO to zone in on scum. And they were quick to dispel all my suspicions.

[havingfitz]

I would not expect scum to like my VCA.

And I've shifted focus before based on VCAs. I recently finished a game with Snarky where I used VCA in MYLO to zone in on scum. And they were quick to dispel all my suspicions.

Why are you fooling yourself with this logical fallacy?

'Scum/people dispelled my VCA in Game A and I was right. My VCA is being dispelled in Game B, I therefore must be right (and they must be scum)'

Why is a townie not allowed to disagree with your analysis. Do you think only town will react favourably to your VCA?

I don't understand your logic. I can't believe town-you believes this.

You've been playing since 2009.

Admit it, you've dug yourself into a hole, and now can't get back out.

Smells like stubborn scum to me.

- Vincent Vega

What am I being stubborn about?

And your "illogical fallacy" accusation is a misrep. No where do I say you are scum because you don't agree with my vca. I suspect you are scum BECAUSE of my vca. Completely different. If everyone disagrees with my vca do you think I'd think they were scum?

And you can't use my time on this site to try and discredit my suspicions without implicitly acknowledging I should know better. I.e. I might actually know what I'm doing. I.e. my VCA might be pointing me in the right direction.....as it has numerous times in the past.

If I've dug a hole it's for you.

[havingfitz]

Mary..I don't know if you are trying to be funny or just need glasses but my username is

havingfitz

which sometimes results in

having

or

fitz

. Any of which I am fine with.

Please stop referring to me as fliz.

Also mod, et al...

v/LA until Monday.

Not a hard fast v/LA but family comes first.

[havingfitz]

I obviously misunderstood "I would not expect scum to like my VCA."..

What about the comment did you misunderstand?

Your VCA is shite mate. I'm not a good player but I can still recognise shit when I smell it.

Other than it pointing me towards you...what don't you like about it? Do you think Mary is scum? Does the fact it makes me suspect her less bother you?

I'm willing to overlook this clusterfuck of bad play if you can convince me of scum-J&V, scum-iiSq or scum-Snarky (EXCLUSIVE OF VCA).

So glad you will allow me the chance to convince you J&V are scum. I would start with my VCA assessment. And as I am not under any contractual obligations to avoid using VCA's to solely or in part establish my suspicions toward particular players, you will have to accept that. Not my findings...but the fact that I am using them

If you don't, then D5 is over for you.

Unless you control more than one vote I'm not too concerned.

[havingfitz]

@Fitz
Outside of VCA, do you town read Mary?

- Vincent Vega

I'm out and occupied all day. I will have a look and effort to answer this question for you tomorrow. Without looking though I will say prior to VCA I suspected her and my current town read on her is based solely on VCA. But I will ISO and have another look.

[havingfitz]

I'm here....busy day. Family in FL and trying to arrange travel down there has taken priority.

JV...do you have everything you need from other players besides me?

[havingfitz]

Wtf? How have I not been 'open?'

[havingfitz]

Snarky + Mary =

NO WAY

VOTE: HavingFitz

Ok, Snarky and Mary didn't quickhammer.

- Vincent Vega

Your point?

Also...I just noticed you have voted me. While you are my current frontrunner for scum...if you are in fact town I would recommend you unvote me. Your vote on me gives me no reason to entertain your request wrt Mary when you are already putting the game at risk by voting me. All your vote is doing is strengthening my VCA based reads and entertaining requests from scum is not something I'm inclined to do.

[havingfitz]

Sorry...I've been dealing with travel issues for a trip to Florida tomorrow. Irma still impacting things for me. Trying to avoid a replace out. Looking over ntrp/mary iso right now.

[havingfitz]

NTRP/Mary ISO:

95 posts between them. Not bad compared to my low amount.

iso0 - rvs
iso1 - Lynch all liars vote on Creature. Not a fan of LAL unless the lie is blatant and genuine.
iso8 - asks Creature who he (NTRP) should vote. Despite having his vote on Creature at this point.
iso15 - Votes comm. Not sure why.

Not really getting a lot from NTRP up to this point.

iso27 - Scum. Asking the PGO to claim. The lone PR for town. At such an early stage of the game I read this as no town motivation and
strictly something that would benefit scum. Why would thinking about the PGO even be on town's mind at this point. I can however seeing it
being a nagging mystery to scum...something they absolutely want to uncover. A closer reread of iso28 gives me a little pause for thought
on my post claim sr on NTRP. I still do not like it....but I can kind of see what he is getting at even if I disagree. Ironic that the PGO
ended up being the target the very first night.

I vote NTRP basically from this point until the current day.

iso30 - states he doesn't suspect comm. This despite maintaining his vote on comm. wtf?

Luckily for comm Assembler f'd up and earned NTRP's vote. Despite NTRP really suspecting him in the first place.

iso37 - Amazed someone is tr-ing him. Not sure how to sort it. Cheeky scum or genuine lynchbait surprise.
iso43 - Wants to know why people are interested in voting iiSq and in the absence of a reason...votes him anyway. smh....

A lot of whinging about being close to a lynch. NAI probably. Didn't really pay much attention to it during the game. Scum do what they
have to to survive. The self hammer threat seems for show. He had the chance and didn't take it.

iso50 - objects to townread from osuka. (see iso37 comments)
iso53 - puts nykus at L-2...not sure why.
iso55 - claims to be mafia. Not a fan of this kind of post.

Next day is a waste as he replaces out due to no time.

Enter Mary.

iso65 - do you think iiSq is scum?
iso67 - makes a post shading several players (not Flubber) and the next post lays a vote on....Flubber. Could have brought Snarky to 3
votes just like she did Flubber. 3 posts later Snarky joins her on the Flubber wagon...moving of the NTRP wagon.
iso71 - Flubber and JV are her top two scumreads atp.
iso72 - woe is me...Flubber wasn't scum.

A few posts with iiSq discussing my suspicions towards the NTRP/Mary slot. Doesn't realize why despite me being fairly clear (for me) on
my reasons.

Nothing else (votes anyway) until the current day. No vote placed since D3.

iso81 - promises some iso diving. Has that happened?

Forgot to iso dive. Confused why I am no longer voting her despite me making it very clear. Not reading? Any surprise?

iso87 - getting close to figuring things out? Do tell.
iso88 - maybe not.
iso89 - how about a nl? (for the scum win).
iso 93 and 94 - seems to be leaning Snarky other than him feeling "too easy".

I thought J&V was too easy. What is the difference between too easy and really scummy...lol?

Summary

...I still do not like this slot. The only reason they have gone down on my suspect list is the VCA. I put a lot of weight into late game VCAs and the only viable partner I see for Mary would be iiSq and even that is slim due to Mary bussing iiSq on D3 (iirc). I really think in this set up scum are not likely to go out of their way to get rid of their partner. Between losing a night and simply losing a partner...it's not very palatable imo. Which is also the reason I seriously doubt Mary would be linked with Snarky or J&V. Back to this slot...it has had two players who have given very little information. NTRP was more than willing to vote but he didn't care if it was on a suspect or not. Whereas getting Mary to vote has been a challenge. She has expressed suspicion towards people (and made attempts at reasoning) but she has not been doing a lot of voting. Other than the vote on Flubber....which made no sense. Plus she has promised a lot and delivered little (sounds like someone else I know).

If not for the VCA Mary would still be my lockdown vote for today but the odds are so much against it I would rather look elsewhere.

Snarky I have played several games with and they almost always wind up voting me iirc. While he has been as inactive here as he always is he has been townreading me more which seems like a change to me. I do not know if it's pocketing or if it's new improved Snarky able to read me. I can not think of anything Snarky has done to cause a great deal of suspicion towards him other than his activity...which always bugs the hell out of me. But in this game that would be extremely hypocritical of me given my activity. The only reason he is more suspect in my opinion that Mary and iiSq att is the VCA. But I would not consider voting him today and if we make it to tomorrow...I would re-assess everyone still alive.

iirc I've townread iiSq most of the game as well and my VCA really only has him as a strong candidate with JV. Sliiiiim chance with Mary.

JV works well with everyone but Mary. Not sure if they would work well with me but a I am town that's not an option I've looked at. So VCA says JV works with 2 partners while Snarky and iiSq only work with 1.

I'm driving cross country tomorrow and will try to do a non-VCA ISO of JV before I lay down a vote.

[havingfitz]

I'm still not confident that Snarky is scum, but

Vote: SnarkySnowman

[havingfitz]

Good game all. I'm in transit atm until tomorrow am. Will post thoughts fwiw post arrival nap.

[havingfitz]

But hehehe, both scum teams were talking about me as a threat. <3

iiSq thought you were being townread and therefore not a likely lynch. I wanted to keep you alive. While a good player....not threatread.

[havingfitz]

Also, fitz, what made you change your read at beginning of D5? We had planned that you would push Mary with me as the probable partner (which is actually why I buddied up to you all game Mary-- not to pocket you but to make people think you were my partner )... so why did you switch to townreading her and pushing J&V instead? I got very close to bussing you because of that.

I like doing late game VCAs. My VCA showed that Mary and Snarky/JV were highly unlikely to be partners (which they weren't). And that only left her as partners with you or I and I didn't want to point suspicions towards either of us so I had to focus elsewhere. My VCA actually had me pointed directly at you but I tweaked my assessment to minimize you. It worked out.

Post game thoughts:
I liked this set up and was glad I joined. Nice job Realeo.

It would have been interesting to see how the game would have gone if Virtuoso hadn't outed his partner. I thought Assembler had f'd up big time but given it was his own partner that "found" the scum message I don't think Assembler was as mistaken doing it as I first thought. At least Virtuoso was nice enough to get rid of the PGO before we (Scum team A) had a chance to cross kill him. Because I do not think we would have ever scumread him after outing his partner. I was amused by the Scum B PT reading Assembler's reactions. I would have reacted the same way. lol

I enjoyed the game and playing with everyone it it.

Good job iiSq.

Thanks again mod.