Open 705: Polygamist - Game Over
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Mathdino Survivor
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Self thought progression checks out.
Tora townslip is forgetting who his lover was and then forgetting who other people's lovers are. Also buddying up to me should be a major red flag/thing-to-avoid as scum.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Importantly, Tora referred to it as a townslip and then realised his mistake by checkingthe thread (Llama's replacement), not his PM.
So I need evidence that Tora has done brazen shit like that as scum. Risky moves.
- Forgetting things about the setup that he should know as scum
- Calling himself locktown
- Buddying up to someone by literally refusing to lynch them-
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Calling himself locktown, not lynching my slot. Scum can just say "I forgot my lover" but the progression is important here. The fact that he doesn't realise that scum can "forget their lover" is even more evidence this is a genuine townslip.In post 25, Toranaga wrote:random lynch GOAT
also I'm lovers with someone I forgot which makes me lock town
also never lynching amrochora even if she is a wolf
Timestamped 2 minutes after (which likely means less than 2 minutes elapsed). I don't believe this is the time that Tora takes to check his role PM, pick someone to pick his "lover", and then go to the thread and find Llama replacing him.
Lol.In post 29, Toranaga wrote:neither of us wrote anything in our PT lol
taking your posts at face value as well and locking you as town this game
let's lynch someone that isn't the 4 of us
/in before the 4 of us is the mafia team
Doesn't understand my pair at all. Didn't realise Amro/me was the pair previously.In post 31, Toranaga wrote:I'm only now reading the game properly, and for some reason I thought you were lovers with pisskop just realised you're the replacement and lovers with amrochora.
I thought we should all claim, because then you can read one or both heads of a lover claim as scummy and that's where you wanna lynch.
Also, Tora clearly understands the logic behind scum picking their lovers. Keep in mind that scum should ideally pick lovers such that a townish scum is paired with scummy scum, rather than pairing 2 scummy scum together.
Tora has played with sheep before. It makes no sense that Tora, REGARDLESS OF WHO THE MAFIA IS, would go ahead and pick sheep of all people as his "lover". This is the way to getting lynched.
More crazy buddying.In post 35, Toranaga wrote:LOL
there's a good chance both amrochora and manrock forgot all about this game
it's too bad, I like playing with them
also I believe you too. game highly POE'd down already imo
Upon reread, the only questionable thing I think is the reference to manrock, which leads credence to the idea of sheep/Tora/Red/manrock.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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@sheep
@Tora
@Red
Questions for all of you.
1. Did you agree/understand when I presented the random lynch idea that it statistically benefits town?
2. If you were scum, would you go with an idea that produces a 40% winrate for you?
3. Did you at the beginning of the game believe that the rest of the town might agree to a random lynch?
For RedFlavor:
4. In 165, when you said I should roll the dice, did you understand that I was suggesting sheep roll the dice?
Edit: Read RedFlavor's ISO. I'm not sure it's consistent with sheep!scum.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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I'm not there yet. First glance suggests the 4 but second glance strongly suggests against it. I'm not doing the "Math comes up with an idea and Diamond Jedi-mind-tricks him into thinking it's the best idea". I still need convincing.In post 712, DiamondSentinel wrote:Alright math. You have a possible team. If you are truly as open to me being town as you suggest you are, then let's pursue sheep/tora/red/manrock as a team. I don't remember anything noteworthy from the latter two, but the former 2 are hitting some red flags.
Once the 3 of them respond to my questions I'll explain my hesitance on that specific team of 4.
Also read my Tora towncase.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Also, potential townslips are only not townslips if scum would intentionally do them to make it seem like a townslip. My first scumgame I pretended to not realise daytalk wasn't a thing and got locked as town. I can never do that again. (Hilariously, it was multiball and I just got shot by the other team anyway)
@Tora: While you're here, respond to my questions and also explain your townread on Red/manrock. I need reconvincing.-
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wait lol this is scumIn post 705, DiamondSentinel wrote:Welp, if I die here, I'm gonna assume it's auto-lose for town. I've seen nothing to the contrary to suggest that the town isn't going to let scum lead them straight off a cliff.
town would be more interested in last words and directing tomorrow's lynch
but anyway
@Tora:
1. So you only semi-agreed to it ("random lynch GOAT") as a reaction test? Did you intend to lynch cytheflyguy when you sheeped sheep? Also did you even believe I believed it
2. I don't know what not giving a fuck as scum entails. Like not caring if we random lynch?
3. I meant on the 2nd page, not the beginning, sorry. Did you, after I suggested the random lynch idea, think town might actually agree to it?
Lord do I agree this is an awful setup.
Edit: no sheep fuck you please answer in complete sentences or you're getting lynched one of these days-
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1. And you agreed before I suggested that you be the one to roll the dice, right? Like you thought I would roll the dice?In post 721, sheepsaysmeep wrote:1) yeah i did agree
2) yeah i would go with it
3) yeah i did think that
shit those arent complete sentences
2. So you, as scum, would let me roll the dice knowing it would give you a maybe 30-40% winrate? What?
3. k thx
Bonus: Nice grammar knowledge, those are actually complete sentences.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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STOP SPAMPOSTING
and i'm ignoring punctuation, but don't even respond to this post honestly
Edit:@Mod, request action spamposts e.g. "pagetop".-
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So you're saying that, as potential scum, you thought the town would coalesce against my random lynch idea (due to force of personality I guess) and would go along with it so you wouldn't end up getting lynched for not agreeing to it?In post 724, sheepsaysmeep wrote:
arguing against it would be a scumclaim for meIn post 722, Mathdino wrote:2. So you, as scum, would let me roll the dice knowing it would give you a maybe 30-40% winrate? What?
i cant come up with good reasons
Would you continue agreeing to it if it became clear that the town didn't like it?
Keep in mind I'm only asking what scum-you would do in this situation.
Edit: ok fair-
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I see no value in self-voting as town tbh. Aren't you interested in who else is willing to vote you?
Also I made that comment to Tora, underneath a Tora quote. I at no point meta'd you. You seem like the type of player who's able to just do what you'd do as town anyway. Same with Diamond. I only meta players when looking for a specific behaviour that I suspect could be different.
Also lol at how this pair is completely falling apart. If they actually chose to be "partners" with each other as scum, bad decision xD
For the record, Diamond, I read everything you're doing much more as flailing than what Sky's doing . Sky's been nonstop townposting for a while now. Problem is I can't townread that shit because of course he's gonna do what's necessary to be townread when there's a lot of pressure (sorry Sky).-
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Mathblade, I don't know about you but this is weirdly working on me. Diamond's self-meta is correct. I'm having trouble figuring out who Dia/Sky are scum with if not cy/Lalendra.
I honestly really want that to be the scumteam because "La/cy in the Sky with DiamondS" is fucking perfect.
VOTE: cytheflyguy
So yeah gimme thoughts. I also need thoughts on sheep/Tora's responses ASAP. And when you're on I wanna talk about the sheep/Tora/Red theory.
Sky, besides that team (for which I'm seeing both tells for and against), what team are you gunning for?-
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Lol I thought of the scumteam name from the moment I saw you guys were paired.
I also have thoughts on Red/cy/Lalendra that I can't get to quite yet.In post 747, Sky_Paladin wrote:My main concerns right now are the super casual and super convenient votes on my wagon from RedFlavor and Cy. However those slots voted pretty much at the same time and I am struggling to see a world where scum would be so careless. Well I guess it could happen if I greatly overestimate the scum players abilities but what do.
I'm also raising eyebrows at Momo because just about every single post he has made this game has been from another planet. I'm not even sure if that is AI.
momo is weird. I think we can assume that sheep/Tora/momo/Kop aren't the team because sheep was actively trying to strongarm people into that speedlynch. He had no reason to believe that wagon wouldn't take off.-
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You know what, fuck it, I'm willing to believe this actually.In post 742, Sky_Paladin wrote:Late the-day-before when I was salty I was thinking about a tactical modkill to force LYLO this dayphase but I felt that was a bit dirty. But the thought of "Is there some way that I can show I am prepared to kill myself to save the game" stuck with me and then I considered, there is no reality where scum would deliberately put themselves at L-1 with some players willing to vote and at least one threatening to hammer.
Whether that is actually a real/good thing to do is something I'd have to put more thought into before ever committing to it because anybody can go 'Self vote is a scum vote' and hammer, and that would be non AI and therefore useless in LYLO.
@Sky:Please explain exactly when in the day you were considering tactically modkilling yourself, and how you planned to do so.
So in terms of my working-with-these-guys perspective (as in they're not scum), here are the scumteams I'm thinking of:
Lal/cy + Kop/momo: Kop/momo never voted Lal/cy despite giving lip service to my ideas and my alignment. Counter is that Lalendra pounced on Kop/momo after the non-scumslip, and it was conceivable that they'd get speedlynched.
Lal/cy + Red: No comment yet.
Kop/momo + Red: The ultimate "I don't give a fuck about this game" team. Weird that Kop/momo didn't help out tho.
sheep/Tora + Red: Also no comment.
Teams I'm explicitly not thinking of:
sheep/Tora + Lal/cy: sheep could easily have voted someone else and I'd have sheeped him earlier.
sheep/Tora + Kop/momo: Jumped too hard on the "scumslip".
sheep/Tora + Sky/Diamond: This very obviously makes no sense from the sheep/Tora angle. Sky/Diamond on the other hand would likely bus.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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It's enough.I'd like Mathblade to read it.
Like, it's pretty good. Paranoia says that I would kick my own ass if I changed my reads later based on some defence but it's obviously more beneficial to work together for now. If you're scum I'm more interested in catching your partnerpair I think.
Keep in mind I'm more invested in my townread of Tora. "Sheep sheep" was my motto because sheep was the only one hanging around doing anything (and was the first one to vote). This might've created the impression that I was strongly townreading sheep when it was more of a townlean on sheep informed by my townread of Tora. But do what you will.-
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Independently, sheep is a townlean. Tora read is stronger and thus overpowers sheep.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Jesus fuck this game is all replacements-
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so sheep is town or someone has to argue to me that he would fake that or do that as scum
honestly can we just quicklynch cy/Lalendra to get this game going
it's clearly Sky/Diamond's most likely partner and at the very least their death helps with that-
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Sad!In post 750, LlamaFluff wrote:DiamondSentinel (4) - sheepsaysmeep, cytheflyguy, Mathblade, RedFlavor
cytheflyguy (3) - Toranaga, Sky_Paladin, Mathdino-
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I don't care if Ben Bernanke himself replaces sheep's ass, I just want to play mafia not Wagonomics WonderlandIn post 768, Toranaga wrote:
even wagonomics agree cy is a better lynch imoIn post 765, Mathdino wrote:
Sad!In post 750, LlamaFluff wrote:DiamondSentinel (4) - sheepsaysmeep, cytheflyguy, Mathblade, RedFlavor
cytheflyguy (3) - Toranaga, Sky_Paladin, Mathdino-
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Mathdino Survivor
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bussing in this setup is how every mafia team has wonIn post 771, Toranaga wrote:redflavor is on diamond which makes 4 different lover pair possibilities on DS
IDT bussing in this game works-
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Mathdino Survivor
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In post 681, Lalendra wrote:
wait, you did? When?In post 666, Mathdino wrote:I asked her for a Last Will set of reads and she completely ignored it
This was my way of soft-asking for you to give us a road map for D2. The fact that Sky is so concerned with the game after his death (and the fact that sheep/Tora genuinely don't seem to want this to continue after D1) imply town. You giving up upon being the clearly most popular wagon is highly concerning.In post 399, Mathdino wrote:
I don't know how good I can be at pep talking you since I'm obviously the cause of all this, and I'm sorry you're bummed regardless of your alignment. It's a sucky position to be in and I can understand how me playing to win can suck the enjoyment out of your game.In post 398, Lalendra wrote:
I'm just bummed because I was really excited for this game and now I feel like I'm going to get lynched D1 through no fault of my own.In post 397, Mathdino wrote:Hey I mean you were doing pretty well when you argued that we should just arbitrarily lynch someone else
But here's what I was thinking: If we arbitrarily vote on D2 based on sheeping someone we think is town (Sheep/Tora) we do in fact run the risk of just having Sheep/Tora be scum.
If you and cy flip, you're certainly town, which means you're completely unbiased.
I believe that everyone's reads are basically arbitrary because scumhunting is hard in this setup.
But if you don't believe that, you can always push for someone to be lynched on D2. Gives you something to do-
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A plea: The faster we end this game, the faster I can change my sig to add that cytheflyguy quote, and the faster we can all join a better game.-
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why not just one...In post 780, sheepsaysmeep wrote:yeah i need to free up some time can we just thunderdome two lynches-
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So because I was your top townread, you'd have been cool with me dice tagging up 2 lynches for the 70% (assuming I'm town) winrate? And you'd have been less cool with sheep doing it even though that's what I was pushing?-
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And, to be clear, you'd have followed me in that situation (assuming I rolled up someone other than you obviously)?
Also can we L-1 cytheflyguy?-
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brb gonna go write a lolcase on cytheflyguy/Lalendra-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Yeah everyone's claimed.
Math/Math
La/cy
Sky with DiamondS
Red/hyung
momo/Kop
sheep/Tora
The key here is that Math/Math is town and sheep/Tora is town, so if you're town, it's probably Lalendra and cy.
Also have you read lol?
Edit: He's at L-2 I'm pretty sure.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Hey Red, couple things.
You said that you agreed and understood my random lynch argument but then on I think 104 you started saying that, as scum, you'd take those odds.
Also the way you said you wanted me to roll the dice seemed super sarcastic, was it?
Lastly, what would you have done if I rolled the dice and they fell on you?-
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Mathdino Survivor
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oh shit fuck i'm sorry that was L-1-
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Tbh this was potentially one of the worst "first games" on this site you could've joined, the mechanics are way non-standard.
Hope you stick around and join a newbie game or something. Replacing into something like this sucks.
Edit: You know Mathblade is my partner, right?-
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Do you understand why I did it?
I don't see how ethics are involved here.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Gotcha. So you're suggesting that right before I said that, I could've posted in the mafia thread and been like "Yo Mathblade I'm gonna pretend to prank you, react please"?In post 802, hyung wrote:If you're town, yeah. If you're scum you could have easily coordinated that. Either way the way it was presented comes off as a dick move to everyone in the game.-
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Just so we're clear, 2 full pairs are on this wagon. Math/Math is on it because... you'll probably have to read the thread for that one honestly. Sky is on it because we were about to lynch him instead. sheep/Tora are on it because they agree with arbitrary lynching and are sheeping me who sheeped their original random vote. Red I assume was also sheeping me.In post 794, LlamaFluff wrote:cytheflyguy (6) -Toranaga,Sky_Paladin,Mathdino,sheepsaysmeep,Mathblade,hyung-
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Mathdino Survivor
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No, answer my question please.In post 805, hyung wrote:I don't have a read on you yet because I want to think you're Mafia, but your cocky attitude could just be putting me off. But just because you tried to paint it as a town test or something, doesn't mean Mafia don't have the same motivations.
Are you saying that Mafia-me went and told Mathblade in our scum topic, "Hey, I'm gonna act like I'm town testing you, so pretend not to know wtf I'm talking about when I say that you and I aren't paired together"
?-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Don't worry about reading the whole game right this second. It'd be nice if you could answer my questions tipsy anyway. If you're town I'll be able to tell pretty easy.
Edit: Red, I've fucked up votecounts before. I went back to the votecount and saw cytheflyguy at 3 votes, then saw Mathblade and hyung switch. Figured it'd be 5 votes.
Edit: Hyung, I need you to answer this, it's important. Is that a yes?-
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Mathdino Survivor
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JESUS CHRIST IM TRYING TO PROVE YOU'RE TOWN
Please. Answer my question straight up. Holy fuck. I'll explain after. If you're town you have absolutely 0 to be afraid of for answering a question.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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You know Mathblade and I both replaced into this game, correct?-
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I don't care if you keep your vote on me, we can get a lynch without you. I'm trying to make sure that, if you're town, you don't get mislynched tomorrow if this flips town.-
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I don't give a shit if you think I'm mafia for a test.
Why didn't you just answer my questions immediately?
Also, have you played forum mafia before?-
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Okay you know what this is good enough for me. RedFlavor and hyung are town. I just won a game using this gambit to locktown someone. Literally the only time I've ever seen it fail is when I myself faked this townslip in my first scumgame. But that took experience that this guy lacks.In post 818, hyung wrote:Actually according to the role PMs, the Mafia topic isalso closed on Day 1... so scratch that.
So if Lalendra/cytheflyguy are scum, they're partners with one of:
Sky/Diamond: The OG pairing. Sky is on this wagon out of self preservation. Diamond is not. If Sky believes we won't get the votes, it's sensible to pretend to bus, so I can't rule this out.
sheep/Tora: This would be really fuckin weird honestly. They've shown 0 indication that they believe this wagon will die out.
Kop/momo: This makes a lot of sense. The only evidence against it is that Lalendra jumped on momo after the "scumslip".
Then if this flips town... the pair consists of 4 of the above 3 pairs. Which is really uncomfortable. I'm honestly not seeing any of those pairs except maybe Sky/Diamond/Kop/momo, which I think matches up with the PT conversations. Then it's gonna be a question of getting the votes for that.
Edit: I haven't read the above 4 or so posts-
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Hell, dude, maybe I would. Are you seriously doubting that the test works though? Do you want me to link you to the game I just won using it? I pull this shit on newbies everywhere.In post 820, hyung wrote:...You were totally trying to "prove" I was town based on not seeing the Mafia role PM until now, right? Lol.
Side note for everyone, I absolutely think Mathdino as Mafia would try to look town by leading this, as another really shallow "test".
At what point did you realise mafia don't have daytalk?
cytheflyguy was the original lynch, and Sky/Diamond were the ones holding that up. I was afraid that we wouldn't have the votes tomorrow to even win (cuz you need the entire town to lynch scum). When Sky started working with me, cytheflyguy became the clear option again.In post 821, RedFlavor wrote:I voted diamond because I was lazy and I said I would follow dino because he wanted 60% chance for us
But I realized he didnt really want that
He voted cy first, then voted diamond, then voted cy again. What Im thinking is he realized if they lynch cy first immediately , at day2 everyone will suspect him and then he voted diamond.
I need to check few things about dino/diamond/sky interactions
Good answer to what? You didn't ask me a question.In post 822, hyung wrote:
1. What a good answerIn post 819, Mathdino wrote:I don't give a shit if you think I'm mafia for a test.
Why didn't you just answer my questions immediately?
Also, have you played forum mafia before?
2. I answered it like 3 times, look again
3. Twice but I'm more used to chat mafia. The ability to express myself over a longer period of time is definitely helpful here, but I'm not sold on the number of pages.
I needed you to be very very clear. Either you thought that I planned this out pregame, or you thought I planned it out midgame when Mathblade replaced in. The difference is essential.
Gotcha, okay. Yeah don't replace into games if pagecount is your issue. We run much smaller/slower games here too. Point of the question was, however: Can scum talk during the day wherever you're from?
Okay so this is more town.In post 823, hyung wrote:Yeah yesterday I was almost ready to vote them just because you did too and I didn't want to think too hard, but then I was too lazy/busy to login haha.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Read this, and then into the next page.
You guys are basing your whole shit around "Mathdino punks people, and only scum would do that".
First of all, I would absolutely never intentionally create a lolhammer scenario, and furthermore, doing so is exactly how to get lynched.
Second of all, reaction tests and gambits like that are like 90% of how I create strong townreads.
Don't be the VI pair. We're literally gonna be unable to lynch cy without members from every town pair.
If you honest to god after everything that happened think I'm scum, figure out which pair you think I'm lovers with and we'll see if we can compromise. Kop/momo was actually my thought for tomorrow's lynch, since scum isn't you guys and it isn't sheep/Tora.-
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The point is that he said "mafia PT is also closed" implying that he was in a town lover's PT that is closed.In post 830, RedFlavor wrote:Btw I dont understand the thing about bold part
The fuck? Who do you think I'm mafia with? cy was some random vote originally that came out of page 1.In post 831, hyung wrote:...This only proves that cy is Mafia's mislynch of choice for Day One
What do you think you know about what type of player I am?In post 828, hyung wrote:As in really long arguments? If just Dino did that I would say they could both be Mafia pairs, but I don't think I have a good enough read on Sky/Diamond's personalities yet. (Meaning I absolutely think Dino is the type to overexert themselves as Mafia and be, for lack of a nicer term, a tryhard)
How do you think you can come to that kind of conclusion without going and finding out?
You're literally not reading.In post 832, RedFlavor wrote:Yes they had long arguments and dino is still saying he scumreads that pair
Don't give me this shit. Go read if you wanna make a case.
Look dude, fuck that. My thought was actually that if cytheflyguy flips town, that your pair was the most likely out of any to be scum. I was fishing for both townslips and scumslips. The way Red answered my questions brought me to a townlean, and I wanted to confirm that.In post 833, hyung wrote:
Yeah I think Dino was already determined to come to the conclusion I was town, so that they could reap the rewards from their "analysis". Nothing about my post is a townslip.In post 830, RedFlavor wrote:Btw I dont understand the thing about bold part
So yeah, I guess you could say I wanted to come to the conclusion you're town.
Here's a question: Do you really think I needed the towncred right now from a reaction test? Like, do you think I thought "Oh gee I'm gonna have a problem winning this game without confirming Red/hyung as town and reaping the credit"?
Edit: Utterly insane.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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You're not reading. I think in worst case scenarios. I've been trying to come up with scenarios for what happens if cy flips town for the past few pages.In post 840, hyung wrote:Guys Mathdino just admitted he knows cy is a mislynch. If he really thought cy was Mafia, there wouldn't be a tomorrow.
You guys don't even have the patience to go read the game and you think you've caught scum from one page of interacting with the only guy who's even here.
Read. The. Game.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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What exactly are you gonna do if we lose because of this?In post 845, hyung wrote:Not reading that when we've already won lol
You had a good run it's okay to admit defeat.
Please don't tell me you're gonna blame me.
Edit: NO, FUCKING READ THE GAME-
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Mathdino Survivor
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You missed the real quote btw.In post 835, Mathdino wrote:If you honest to god after everything that happened think I'm scum, figure out which pair you think I'm lovers with and we'll see if we can compromise. Kop/momo was actually my thought for tomorrow's lynch, since scum isn't you guys and it isn't sheep/Tora.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Who exactly are you planning to lynch tomorrow if you actually manage to lynch me?
Restate your entire case on me please.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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also not like this happened or anythingIn post 634, LlamaFluff wrote:Vote Count
DiamondSentinel (5) - sheepsaysmeep, cytheflyguy, Mathdino, Mathblade, RedFlavor
Mathdino (2) - Sky_Paladin, DiamondSentinel
cytheflyguy (1) - Toranaga
RedFlavor (1) - momo
momo (1) - Lalendra
Not Voting (2) - Kop, hyung
Kop has been prodded
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline for day one is January 25th 7PM PST in (expired on 2018-01-25 19:00:00)
but you wouldn't know that because you didn't read the game
read or replace out-
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Mathdino Survivor
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In order to argue I'm scum, you need to argue that me being scum is consistent with some other pair being scum.
For example, I realised that sheep/Tora as scum doesn't make sense paired with most other pairs, and so they're more likely to be town.
Give me a possible pairing, assuming you actually think that was a scumslip.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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You're taking my argument too far. All I'm telling them is they need to come up with possible partners for me, and if they can't, then the case makes no sense. Sure, it could be scum-me's strategy to fake-bus, but then they need to propose the scenario in which I do.In post 861, Sky_Paladin wrote:
I just want to point out this is not strictly true - if the scum strategy is to fake-bus, then they'd be trying not to be picked as a team with anybody, or, if one of the scum teams is the kop/momo team, it'd be hard to draw associations against them due to their inactivity.In order to argue I'm scum, you need to argue that me being scum is consistent with some other pair being scum.
I'm surprised by the sudden votes for Dino. If they had come around 72 hours before now I might have accepted it as people agreeing with Diamond and my push however that timing window has well and truly passed. I'm interested in seeing Lalendra/Cy's responses to the situation.
The sudden votes were, in my understanding,
1. Because I fucked up the VC (it looks like I didn't notice sheep's vote) and they think that I would try to trick someone into hammering (because this ever works).
2. Because I keep punking people to reaction test them and that'swrong. hyung seems to think that me trying to clear him as town makes me scum, which is hilarious and, if he knew shit about me, is basically null.
3. Because of a nonsensical scumslip on the levels of "THAT GUY JUST SAID THERE ARE 3 MAFIA, HOW'S HE KNOW THAT" or "HOW DOES THIS GUY KNOW THAT GUY IS TOWN". I think literally all the times I've ever been lynched in my career were as town because I started assuming things that I didn't know.
What they don't realise about me is that I don't scumslip as scum (unless it's multiball which I suck at). A large portion of my scumhunting/townhunting is based on instigating and classifying mistakes and slips. I'mhyperawareof that shit as scum. I once-over and rewrite my posts (it's a flaw in my scumgame tbh).
Unfortunately it looks like they're pretty fucking disinterested in reading the game (which honestly warrants replacement) or meta-diving me for this kind of thing.
Honestly fuck a setup that only takes one townteam not playing ball in order to ruin town's majority. With 12 players, that should absolutely never happen.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Oh by the way now that RedFlavor answered my questions Sky, I'm willing to talk about the sheep/Tora/Red idea.
I don't think it makes sense. RedFlavor knew that to get on my good side, he had to propose sheep roll the dice. Instead he unironically suggested I do it, which has a high chance of hitting him. I also believe him when he says that he thought town might go along with it. It makes it absolutely stupid of him to take a 30% winrate upon me rolling the dice.
I'm not sure about RedFlavor and other scumteams. RedFlavor with other teams:
Lalendra/cy: It's possible that by the time the cy wagon started up, Red realised that there was too much pushback against my idea that the cy lynch wouldn't actually go through. This is consistent with them dodging the hammer. Honestly this team would be ideal because it means that we don't need either pair to get majority. I'm not sure it makes too much sense though. Red could've easily been like "nah I don't townread sheep like Math does, I'm not sheeping that".
Kop/momo: I don't think they were even active at the same time, so I guess this is possible. This just makes Kop/momo the ideal lynch tomorrow if they could be partners with everyone honestly.
Sky/Diamond: Weirdly, this is consistent, and is only inconsistent with the fact that I'm townreading too many people in this team.
All that said, Red's responses and hyung's reaction ("HEY FUCK YOU FOR TRYING TO PROVE IM TOWN, I COULDVE BEEN SCUM YOU IDIOT" instead of just faking a slip and taking the cred) strongly make me believe in Red/hyung locktown.
Need thoughts on this, Sky.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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It is, yeah. He also restated his theories well even while drunk.In post 867, cytheflyguy wrote:Is this based off experience? I've played a game before (finished now), where there was a scum who was drunk posting.
hyung was also drunkposting IIRC and answered questions well. Unfortunately it sounds like he's a paranoid drunk.-
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@Mod: Request prods on momo and Kop.-
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My concern right now is primarily political. If Red/hyung are town, as I'm pretty sure of (MATHBLADE BACK ME UP HERE), and we get this lynch wrong, we're fucked tomorrow.
@Sky: I read through this, thanks. I do think the fact that I basically bombed the thread with economics and "scumhunting is bad" logic, and sheep having seen me in other games probably actually sheeped me. It doesn't look to me like there's another pair that he's unwilling to lynch except my hydra. Tora iirc was unwilling to lynch the RedFlavor hydra, so that's one possible connection, but it's broken by pages 1 & 2.
It's a pretty case and all but it's far from conclusive. If you were to meta-dive me you'd find that I'm obviously not playing to my meta at all either. I think the people that have bought into the "this setup is fucked" mentality are much less likely to play to their meta than the people trying to keep this a normal game (Diamond).
The lynchpin of my towncase on them is Tora. That and a valid sheep partner, who I have yet to see.
Edit: Yeah that's an important question. Also momo is totally potentially bussing right?-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Idk I'd be pretty okay with the hammer.
The wiki literally states that scum strategy is to run each other up to L-1 and muddle any possible associations.
If they're paired with Kop/momo, their survival banks on Red/hyung and Diamond continuing to tunnel me, because they otherwise won't get the votes.
If paired with Red/hyung, then yeah we can totally get the votes we just need Kop or Diamond to do it.
If paired with sheep/Tora, then sheep/Tora are committing suicide by committing to this lynch.
If paired with you/Diamond, then you just need Red/hyung to keep tunneling and for Kop to not hammer.-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Caveat: Dice lynch only really works if you're town.-
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You have a few errors but I get the idea. These are largely fair picks.In post 899, Sky_Paladin wrote:Otherwise from where I'm sitting I see two blocks: Dino/Sheep obv, and Red/Cy. The only players who don't really fit in blocks are Sky and Momo, so that is a third team that I would have expected to have emerged more credibly than a Sky/Cy team.
If we flip Cy and Cy is green, I'm more likely to want to push for a Sheep lynch than a Red/Momo lynch.
If we flip Sheep and sheep is green, I'm absolutely pushing for a Cy lynch. I'm giving an implicit town clear to Red if Dino is right about Sheep's alignment.
If we flip Momo and Momo is green, it doesn't help me pick between the two other blocks.
I'm not interested in lynching Red at this point because I think I can get significant alignment indications from lynching in one of those other two blocks.
The problem is the last thing. Red/hyung believe I'm scum independently of sheep/Tora, and in particular believe I'm scum with Kop/momo (or you/Diamond? I'm not really sure).
I'm pretty fucking sure they're town, and that means if we get this day wrong, LyLo will wreck us.
And I'm also lowkey done with them due to frustration with pants-on-head-tunneling. inb4 hyung is a derpy alt
So you deal with them so we don't insta-lose in LyLo.
Edit: uh gimme a sec-
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Mathdino Survivor
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Sky I think you're majorly fucking up the pairs to the point where I can't understand your posts.
Can you EBWOP them all?
The pairs are:
Math/Math
Red/hyung
sheep/Tora
Sky/Diamond
Kop/momo
Lal/cy
In descending order of towniness in my opinion.