Open 250 - Pie E7 - Game Over! Scum Win

sottyrulez
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Post Post #125  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:54 am

VP Baltar wrote:Were either of these scum in a position to win the game. If not, then I don't even see how this evidence is related.

Scum won both games.

VP Baltar wrote:On a scale of 1-10, how serious do you think I was being?

I'd say five. By that you worded in such a way that allows you to dismiss it as a joke or roll with it if the town wanted too.

VP Baltar wrote:I was actually playing the game trying to figure out if he was scum or not, yes. Where were you at?

Excellent deflection. (Yes I know what I did there.)

VP Baltar wrote:lol. so your argument is that because I was stating suspicions of people in the game, I was being scummy?

Err no. Try again.

VP Baltar wrote:Vi was a town read and I didn't really have a good read on your slot because you've been pretty innocuous this game. Thankfully, ckd being clear makes this much easier and I can see you scrambling now for an out.

An out how? If we are so “innocuous” like you say, what would we need an out for?

VP Baltar wrote:Let me ask your hydra, what motivation do you think I would have had for not CCing ckd at that point? Who would you have believed more easily was the real doctor?


It comes down to WIFOM. We refuse to believe you are cleared just because it would have been easier for scum to have counterclaimed CKD. Especially with this player list. The fact you seemed to leave yourself open for CKD being town when everyone else thought he was scum twigs our scumdar too. You seemed to know he was town and after he claimed doc you rolled with it.

We don't think that you pushing on “lurkers” after is a coincidence, especially the nopoint push. Combine this with your weak attack on us and all together it spells scum to us.

Also, why does it matter now who is posting? Earlier you said it didn't matter but now it does? Do you find one of us easier to discredit than the other?

VP Baltar wrote:As I acknowledged in my post, I'm well aware that the game hasn't been open much. That being said, what you did post on Day 1 was just random vote and answering a question from me. No effort to start the discussion. Now, perhaps you didn't look at the game at all that Sunday, but my point is that in the few posts you did have you weren't exactly spurring the game on. I can only go on what I see. I asked questions. Vi asked questions. Ckd is confirmed town. What other conclusion can I draw from the evidence I have?

If you look over both of our metas it will show that on weekends our posting goes down considerably. Just like this weekend. Now that the football season has started Sundays are going to be even worse, we literally spend all the day either watching the games or doing other family stuff. The fact the whole of day one lasted over Saturday and Sunday is why we basically missed it. The fact you are trying to make this scummy is pretty outstanding. It would be one thing if the day lasted a little while longer and we lurked. But that just isn't true.

Then you keep trying to qualify the point by saying “I acknowledged day wasn't that long BUT...” It's a BS point. We know it, you know it, yet you keep banging that drum. Why?

= = = = =

In other news, Vi doesn't seem to be doing anything. Post 117 was what exactly? A conclusion that VP is likely town but zero pressure to the left over scum picks. That isn't Vi like at all. Her follow up posts are also lacking any kind of real push unless she is backing out of her VP town mind set.

It is looking very much like the scum are VP and Vi.

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Post Post #126  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:21 am

sottyrulez wrote:In other news, Vi doesn't seem to be doing anything. Post 117 was what exactly? A conclusion that VP is likely town but zero pressure to the left over scum picks. That isn't Vi like at all. Her follow up posts are also lacking any kind of real push unless she is backing out of her VP town mind set.

It is looking very much like the scum are VP and Vi.
Post 117 was a catch-up post typed up in semi-delirium mostly featuring things that I thought of over the weekend.

Let me show you the hidden tags in post 121.
VP Baltar, question. You were pretty much the only person who expressly said that ckd may or may not be scum pre-massclaim, and it even sounded like you believed he was Town at the end of your discussion with him. Could you elaborate on that?

</obviously withholding information about a possible conclusion based on whatever answer I get>
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Post Post #127  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:01 pm

Alright this is going to be a mega post since I'm the center of the universe super nova black hole sun etc. etc.

Vi's mind-read questions wrote:You want to know my thought process while questioning him? Or why I decided he was probably town at the end of the discussion? Or something else I'm not seeing?

1) My thought process basically started off on the day like 'well, the scumminess of ckd's hammer is obvious, but is it TOO obvious to actually be coming from scum.' Post 51 I make my joke about a reroll because I'm frustrated with what he did if he's town. I then ask him to back up what he said about doing that move before, because sometimes scum like to say 'oh yeah, I've done that before...METADON'TLYNCHME' without actually having a good meta to back it up. He then tries to squirm out of giving links because it's "wifom," which is a BS excuse in my book and I state so in post 56. I then decided to do some work on my own to check out what ckd's thoughts are on fake voting by looking at his modded games. I don't see a rule explicitly stating names need to be correct for votes, but ultimately I wasn't really feeling this as conclusive evidence damning him. I decided to push it anyhow to see what his response would be.

Reading his post 57, I did sort of believe his "I sent the mod a PM telling him not to count it, but then he did it anyhow". Additionally, he did appear to be genuinely looking for his games even though he was failing at finding them. There was even an MD thread he created, which I saw later. This shows genuine town effort and not coasting scum. Ckd then posts the game he was thinking about, but it's not really the same scenario. This again makes me question whether he is scum or town trying this. Post 78 is me pushing him again to see which way he bends. I was also under the impression before that he had asked the mod before voting. In post 80 he reveals that he voted first, which is more believable than what I thought he did (ie ask, grow impatient waiting and vote anyway). Ckd was consistent while I was questioning him and stood by what he claimed his reasoning to be even though I felt more than one hole in his logic had been pointed out. This again is a town mentality, as I'd expect scum in that situation to change their story to sound more plausible.

Additionally, during my exchange with ckd we had nopoint chime in (post 74) with no actual line of questioning or trying to figure out anything. He just said that he didn't believe ckd. This is, of course, the world famous godfather post, but it stank and continues to stink to me for the sheer sideline wagon pushing mentality of it. So, with my questioning of ckd finished at that moment before massclaim, I felt confident enough to look elsewhere.

2) I guess this is answered by number one. Combination of him genuinely trying to explain himself and sticking with a ridiculous story when I would expect scum to backtrack.

3) I don't know what else I'm not seeing. you'll have to tell me.




nopoint wrote:Can you provide your meta on Vi and Sotty while you're at it because I've never played with her or in fact any of the people still remaining.

No. Giving out my meta reads for no reason kind of defeats the purpose of me having meta reads on people. I think what I gave is sufficient. If you want a town or scum meta read of Vi, she has a very extensively annotated wiki.

No, I don't expect you to come to a conclusion. Even I'm not in any type of real conclusion at that time and now. However, I do expect you to take a stance. You couldn't have figured out CKD's probable alignment if you don't take a stance and pressure your target. To me, it sounded more like you were equivocating yourself out of commitment before the doctor has claimed.

In case you forgot, you did take a stance. You said you didn't believe him at all. Following your own logic, why didn't you ever pressure ckd if you didn't believe him? Also, please explain how I was equivocating myself out of commitment by asking questions in earnest and essentially leading the questioning of ckd's motives for his hammer?

What you said was not untrue. However, it is greatly inconsistent. After CKD's hammer, you have made a lot of points against him but are still "trying to figure out his alignment". On the other hand, you called me and Shotty scum with such a small reason as we are inactive ( Note both situations are in LYLO ).

Still don't get how I'm "framing" you two. Or what you mean by inconsistent. Inconsistent compared to what?

3> I didn't say it was scummy. What do you imply by I will get my lynch sooner or later?

I assumed you were since you were calling many silly things scummy in that post. I'm implying you're scum and you'll be lynched as such.

4> Again, discussing this is WIFOM-ic. It can easily be twisted around either way so I'd gladly see it as a null-tell.

No, you're using WIFOM as an excuse. Large amounts of this game are WIFOM, it doesn't mean they should be ignored. I provided logical reasoning why I would not do it. What you have failed to provide is logical reasoning as to why I would do it. I would actually like answers to my questions instead of you copping out of it as WIFOM.


Sottyrulez wrote:Scum won both games.

That's not what I asked. I asked if the scum were imminently in a position to win the game when it occured. First, I don't know why you were being vague about Gonzo....though I guess I can say because it firmly does not apply to this situation. Sotty did not intend to bus both days to get town cred and you very well know that. It was a mistake. I find it dubious that you are pushing this as evidence supporting your case. I haven't read the newbie game, but I have a sneaking suspicion that was an equally dumb move by a newbie who didn't understand the situation rather than being strategic about town cred.

Excellent deflection. (Yes I know what I did there.)

I was being serious. I know you're busy and what not, but in fairness, so am I. I mean, that excuse only gets so much mileage in my book.

An out how? If we are so “innocuous” like you say, what would we need an out for?

An out for looking so scummy.

We refuse to believe you are cleared just because it would have been easier for scum to have counterclaimed CKD. Especially with this player list. The fact you seemed to leave yourself open for CKD being town when everyone else thought he was scum twigs our scumdar too. You seemed to know he was town and after he claimed doc you rolled with it.

Nobody said I was cleared. I just said it was unlikely that I as scum would have motivation for doing that given ckd's play. The player list is irrelevant. Additionally:
VP wrote:Who would you have believed more easily was the real doctor?


Also, why does it matter now who is posting? Earlier you said it didn't matter but now it does? Do you find one of us easier to discredit than the other?

I have theories. Theories that have nothing to do with discrediting. Feel free to answer.

Then you keep trying to qualify the point by saying “I acknowledged day wasn't that long BUT...” It's a BS point. We know it, you know it, yet you keep banging that drum. Why?

It's not a BS point. I can only go on what you post in thread. I find that lacking. I'm stating so. How is that BS?
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Post Post #128  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:27 pm

You're taking me way too seriously if you think that was meant to be three separate questions, considering I asked you to come up with things I hadn't thought of.~

I'm still having a difficult time understanding ckd's end of it even with that narration, simply because I would have OCD-strangled myself halfway through. I can appreciate the thought process you gave, especially ending with ckd's "It's never been an issue before".

If you want a town or scum meta read of Vi, she has a very extensively annotated wiki.
Oh thanks :igmeou:

---

VP Baltar: What were you trying to accomplish with your D1 questioning of Equinox? Did you know her before this game began?
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Post Post #129  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:28 pm

Vi wrote:VP Baltar: What were you trying to accomplish with your D1 questioning of Equinox? Did you know her before this game began?
No, I haven't played with her before...which was exactly what I was trying to accomplish. I didn't really need to get a feel for you or Sottyrulez or CKD because I have played with you guys plenty. Equinox was where I decided to start with the unfamiliars....it's a shame I didn't get very far.

Now a question for you (and nopoint and Sottyrulez): Why should I believe you're town at this point?
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Post Post #130  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:30 pm

EBWOP:

Vi wrote:Oh thanks :igmeou:

:D Anything I can do to help.
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Post Post #131  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:10 pm

VP Baltar wrote:
Vi wrote:VP Baltar: What were you trying to accomplish with your D1 questioning of Equinox? Did you know her before this game began?
No, I haven't played with her before...which was exactly what I was trying to accomplish. I didn't really need to get a feel for you or Sottyrulez or CKD because I have played with you guys plenty. Equinox was where I decided to start with the unfamiliars....it's a shame I didn't get very far.
The reason I asked was because I don't think your questions were particularly enlightening. The ice cream question borders on something I got ridiculed for in a different game (asking about favorite fictional characters). I'm not convinced.

Now that my questions are out of the way, I'll go on with my own thoughts. As I said before, following the massclaim I had the impression that you were the Townie. I wasn't going to commit to it as I had misgivings about a few things I noticed and asked you about, and to a degree I still have those misgivings. But I think it's okay to go ahead with this one.

VP Baltar wrote:Now a question for you (and nopoint and Sottyrulez): Why should I believe you're town at this point?
What part of "always Town" is confusing you? :P

Alternatively, one good answer is in our reactions to being put into a 2 vs. 2 winner-takes-all cage match. Look at this.
nopointinactingup 105 wrote:
VP Baltar wrote:My biggest thing about Sottyrulez and nopoint is their general level of hesitance. I know we haven't had much discussion this game, but they don't seem to have said much at all. nopoint in particular.
I have been busy with life. Latching on to arguments like this to propel your mislynch aren't you?
I don't see your remark as THAT inflammatory. Simply put, they hadn't said anything. It's understandable why; Day 1 lasted a little over 24 hours and the massclaim started a little over 24 hours into Day 2. So npau's response touches two nerves--
*The reason is that he was "busy with life". Not "the game has only gone on so long". It's a semantic difference but it sounds like he was avoiding the thread.
*He immediately and reactively attacks you. It's rhetoric, and not the good kind. Plus I'm not sure how one can "latch onto" one's own argument, but whatever.

sottyrulez did something similar with "This is weak.", although FWIW they at least acknowledged the time constraint. In addition,
sottyrulez 110 wrote:See a lurker lynch also takes relatively little effort as well.
This was addressed to you. But if I'm your top Town read and the other two are "lurkers", etc.

Basically, they've overreacted heavily to the main "threat" in the game. That's what stands out most to me. It also eases my decision to trust you >.>
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Post Post #132  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:54 pm

you can question VP all you want about his motivations, bottom line, it only took one townie to vote me and scum would have dropped the hammer....everyone had said that they didnt believe me or at the very least questioned my blunder...it did look scummy and Equinox WAS killed last night and he died yesterday voting me....my point, the scum frame was in (not that they needed it)....I dont think VP is scum.....it would have been way too easy to counter then lynch me.

no one will convince me otherwise today, VP might be scum, but the gambit doesnt make any sense unless he just wants to show off his skills (granted it is a possibility). both Sotty and Vi and throwing it out there....but all he had to do was counter and scum would have won...thats it. Anyone who says anything else is just trying to muddy the water.
annnnd, I am retired.

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Post Post #133  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:32 am

no one will convince me [VPB is scum] today
VP might be scum
"I don't know if I'm right or not, but I can be bigoted about it!"
This is the part where I say "remind me to strangle you after the game", but I don't think I'll need reminding.

With that said, I regret to inform myself that I didn't think this through.
Vi 117 wrote:And if you're going to be lynched anyway, why not expose the Doctor along the way?
This would have been ckd's scum motivation for claiming Doctor. There really WASN'T any chance of a turnabout in the case of ckd-Town/VPB-scum both claiming Doctor, because even claiming Doctor was scummy for ckd. I would have thrown a vote down for him.

So ultimately I have to agree that the move makes no sense for VPB-scum, even if it means agreeing with the piteous one.

npau and sottyrulez it is.
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Post Post #134  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:08 am

Ok, Vi, who would you rather lynch today npau or sottyrulez?
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Post Post #135  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:12 am

wait you want to strangle me, but you agree with my conclusion?
annnnd, I am retired.

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Post Post #136  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:36 pm

curiouskarmadog wrote:wait you want to strangle me, but you agree with my conclusion?
Yep.

Ok, Vi, who would you rather lynch today npau or sottyrulez?
It doesn't really matter, unless you're scum :?
If I were going to hedge my bets I would go with sottyrulez. Plus God knows it's the more satisfying option :P
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Post Post #137  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:44 pm

VP Baltar wrote:I have theories. Theories that have nothing to do with discrediting. Feel free to answer.

Just to hear these theories I'm gonna answer.

The initial spam posts of our case on you were made by Zach. The subsequent follow up that you just replied to was by me (Sotty). I thought it was pretty obvious honestly, but then I don't think you have played a ton of games with Zach.

At this point we are just about ready to place our vote, we're mostly going around in circles here. Waiting on more input from nopoint before we leap as well as VP's answer to the above.

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Post Post #138  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:23 pm

sottyrulez wrote:Just to hear these theories I'm gonna answer.

The initial spam posts of our case on you were made by Zach. The subsequent follow up that you just replied to was by me (Sotty). I thought it was pretty obvious honestly, but then I don't think you have played a ton of games with Zach.

I sort of felt that way, but I wanted to clarify. My theory is that you guys as scum would have Sotty posting predominantly because Zach really does not like to be scum. Additionally, Zach is probably more susceptible to pressure as scum, as he gets frustrated more easily. The fact that you both posted does not support this theory and may or may not add weight to my next point.

This is largely directed at ckd, but anyone else may consider as they see fit. I'm currently thinking we should lynch nopoint today. I asked Vi who she would prefer to lynch for a very specific reasoning, that being to lynch the opposite person she chose. Now if my town read on Vi is correct, it doesn't really matter who we lynch out of sotty and nopoint first. Big Whoop. However, if my read of Vi is wrong, that means that she is partners with one of them. Therefore, I asked her nonchalantly what her lynch preference was knowing that Vi-scum in that situation, this close to the votes happening, would not want to direct the town toward her partner. She has chosen sottyrulez as her preferred lynch. Soooo, if my logic is correct and she would be trying to win the thing straight away, we ought to be lynching nopoint right about now. I'm sure Vi-scum would be tricksy enough to cut me off at the pass with this line of questioning if she had seen it coming, but I also don't think I was very direct when asking...idk. I'd like your thoughts.

I was also thinking about nopoint's godfather comment some more (going running early in the morning does wonders for your thought processes btw), and do you think it's possible he typed godfather when he meant roleblocker? I mean, he does have enough experience to know the difference, so that makes me a bit doubtful, but maybe he wasn't thinking straight. Just a thought.
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Post Post #139  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:13 pm

I am not feeling the nopoint lynch, not today anyway.

I am down to Vi and Sotty....I definitely do not understand your town read on Vi.....
annnnd, I am retired.

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Post Post #140  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:46 pm

well, It's certainly not a 100% town read. Why would Vi-scum in that situation suggest a lynch on her buddy though?
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Post Post #141  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:43 am

VP Baltar wrote:Additionally, during my exchange with ckd we had nopoint chime in (post 74) with no actual line of questioning or trying to figure out anything. He just said that he didn't believe ckd. This is, of course, the world famous godfather post, but it stank and continues to stink to me for the sheer sideline wagon pushing mentality of it. So, with my questioning of ckd finished at that moment before massclaim, I felt confident enough to look elsewhere.

Can you get more manipulative than this?
1> It is not bandwagon if it has no votes.
2> Sideline pushing?? I was clear in my stance and my intention to pressure. You were the one who was "sideline pushing" and your equivocation of "what went through your mind" are so equivocative I find it fabricated ( Note: The brain thinks simple).

VP Baltar wrote:I was also thinking about nopoint's godfather comment some more (going running early in the morning does wonders for your thought processes btw), and do you think it's possible he typed godfather when he meant roleblocker? I mean, he does have enough experience to know the difference, so that makes me a bit doubtful, but maybe he wasn't thinking straight. Just a thought.


Ho ho, the reason why I did not talk much about my godfather post is so scum-metality player would try to make it look bad. I was thinking straight and really thought CKD was the godfather. Supposed there is really a godfather and a role blocker. The godfather would be the one committing to such gambit because the scummy hammer will attract investigation from the cop ( which shows town and thus greatly benefits the scum team ).

VP Baltar wrote:
No, I don't expect you to come to a conclusion. Even I'm not in any type of real conclusion at that time and now. However, I do expect you to take a stance. You couldn't have figured out CKD's probable alignment if you don't take a stance and pressure your target. To me, it sounded more like you were equivocating yourself out of commitment before the doctor has claimed.

In case you forgot, you did take a stance. You said you didn't believe him at all. Following your own logic, why didn't you ever pressure ckd if you didn't believe him? Also, please explain how I was equivocating myself out of commitment by asking questions in earnest and essentially leading the questioning of ckd's motives for his hammer?

1> Thanks for proving myself to be consistent which my belief that townie takes stance.
2> No, most of what you've said were wishy washy.

VP Baltar wrote:
This is largely directed at ckd, but anyone else may consider as they see fit. I'm currently thinking we should lynch nopoint today. I asked Vi who she would prefer to lynch for a very specific reasoning, that being to lynch the opposite person she chose. Now if my town read on Vi is correct, it doesn't really matter who we lynch out of sotty and nopoint first. Big Whoop. However, if my read of Vi is wrong, that means that she is partners with one of them. Therefore, I asked her nonchalantly what her lynch preference was knowing that Vi-scum in that situation, this close to the votes happening, would not want to direct the town toward her partner. She has chosen sottyrulez as her preferred lynch. Soooo, if my logic is correct and she would be trying to win the thing straight away, we ought to be lynching nopoint right about now. I'm sure Vi-scum would be tricksy enough to cut me off at the pass with this line of questioning if she had seen it coming, but I also don't think I was very direct when asking...idk. I'd like your thoughts.



You are being intentionally simple minded in evaluating Vi.
1> A one-liner post containing a serious question doesn't spell out nonchalant.
2> Vi, an experienced player as we all know, would have noticed such an obvious ploy. That makes me doubt your intention of making such ploy.
Also, if Vi was scum with either me or Sotty ( as present in your so called "townish mind"), there is absolutely no reason to believe Vi would prefer Sotty-lynch if he was scum with me. You completely failed to address the likelihood of scum bussing for town-cred. Your logic is failed logic, because an experienced player would have a tendency towards convoluted reasoning rather than straight forward reasoning.

VP Baltar wrote:
4> Again, discussing this is WIFOM-ic. It can easily be twisted around either way so I'd gladly see it as a null-tell.

No, you're using WIFOM as an excuse. Large amounts of this game are WIFOM, it doesn't mean they should be ignored. I provided logical reasoning why I would not do it. What you have failed to provide is logical reasoning as to why I would do it. I would actually like answers to my questions instead of you copping out of it as WIFOM.

I said you would have done it or wouldn't 50-50. I didn't say there were reasons for you to counter-claim so don't expect one. WIFOM is based on the question would you do it or would you not. This question is subjective as you can simply do it to make others think you wouldn't or don't do it to make others think you would. The case of you not claiming doc clearly applies. Thus, it should be a null-tell.

VP, between Vi and Sotty, who do you think is scummier ( non-subjective ) to what others' reasoning or lynch preference? Or do you even have an opinion at all?
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Post Post #142  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:32 am

VP Baltar wrote:well, It's certainly not a 100% town read. Why would Vi-scum in that situation suggest a lynch on her buddy though?


really? why not? a suggestion is not a vote.
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Post Post #143  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:36 am

curiouskarmadog wrote:
VP Baltar wrote:well, It's certainly not a 100% town read. Why would Vi-scum in that situation suggest a lynch on her buddy though?


really? why not? a suggestion is not a vote.

I just feel that we're closing in on a vote and that vibe was there when I asked. It's hard for me to see why Vi would push anything in the direction of a buddy at that point when she could nudge toward a townie and win the game outright.
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Post Post #144  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:38 am

VP Baltar wrote:This is largely directed at ckd, but anyone else may consider as they see fit. I'm currently thinking we should lynch nopoint today. I asked Vi who she would prefer to lynch for a very specific reasoning, that being to lynch the opposite person she chose. Now if my town read on Vi is correct, it doesn't really matter who we lynch out of sotty and nopoint first. Big Whoop. However, if my read of Vi is wrong, that means that she is partners with one of them. Therefore, I asked her nonchalantly what her lynch preference was knowing that Vi-scum in that situation, this close to the votes happening, would not want to direct the town toward her partner. She has chosen sottyrulez as her preferred lynch. Soooo, if my logic is correct and she would be trying to win the thing straight away, we ought to be lynching nopoint right about now. I'm sure Vi-scum would be tricksy enough to cut me off at the pass with this line of questioning if she had seen it coming, but I also don't think I was very direct when asking...idk. I'd like your thoughts.
I would be offended, but then I chose sottyrulez because in the event that you are scum, they're more likely to be your partner.
With that said I'm obviously not thrilled that you want to lynch the person who I don't think would be your scumpartner.

npau, could you in very short terms say why you think VP Baltar is scum?
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Post Post #145  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:56 am

Not sure why you'd think sotty is likely to be my partner if I was scum, I've pretty much led the way in both the npau and sotty directions. That being said, you certainly have to see how the above logic makes sense from my perspective. And from your perspective it shouldn't really matter since you believe me to be town anyhow. :?
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Post Post #146  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:16 am

VP Baltar wrote:Not sure why you'd think sotty is likely to be my partner if I was scum, I've pretty much led the way in both the npau and sotty directions.
You've gone after npau more, I think. (You still are :? )
That being said, you certainly have to see how the above logic makes sense from my perspective.
I do.
And from your perspective it shouldn't really matter since you believe me to be town anyhow. :?
More likely than not. But then if you think I'm more likely than not Town, it shouldn't matter to you for the same reason.

Of course, if we're both Town this is a stupid thing to disagree over.
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Post Post #147  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:21 am

On the other hand, maybe we should just lynch Sotty. For some reason I completely missed that they IGNORED MY ENTIRE POST TO THEM W/ QUESTIONS



nopoint wrote:Can you get more manipulative than this?

You should see me play as scum.

1> It is not bandwagon if it has no votes

Don't see how this is relevant, but by wagon I was clearly meaning the momentum of a ckd=scum mentality.

2> Sideline pushing?? I was clear in my stance and my intention to pressure. You were the one who was "sideline pushing" and your equivocation of "what went through your mind" are so equivocative I find it fabricated ( Note: The brain thinks simple).

You obviously don't understand the concept of sideline pushing. You were putting your support there for no discernible reason. That is sideline pushing. You were piggybacking off of the actual scumhunting I was doing and now you're trying to take credit for it. A town person should not be certain of anything in this game without attempting to find motivations first. I think it's pretty clear you were not interested in that as much as you were interested in a ckd lynch ftw.

Ho ho, the reason why I did not talk much about my godfather post is so scum-metality player would try to make it look bad. I was thinking straight and really thought CKD was the godfather. Supposed there is really a godfather and a role blocker. The godfather would be the one committing to such gambit because the scummy hammer will attract investigation from the cop ( which shows town and thus greatly benefits the scum team ).

This completely misses the point. You were thinking straight by proclaiming there was a role in the game that is not present? Ok.

1> Thanks for proving myself to be consistent which my belief that townie takes stance.
2> No, most of what you've said were wishy washy.

1)Pro-tip: scum take stances too. It says nothing about alignment.
2) I disagree. (this is useful)

1> A one-liner post containing a serious question doesn't spell out nonchalant.

:?
2> Vi, an experienced player as we all know, would have noticed such an obvious ploy. That makes me doubt your intention of making such ploy.

:? :?

there is absolutely no reason to believe Vi would prefer Sotty-lynch if he was scum with me. You completely failed to address the likelihood of scum bussing for town-cred. Your logic is failed logic, because an experienced player would have a tendency towards convoluted reasoning rather than straight forward reasoning.

What the fuck does a player need townie-cred for when they can win the game? Additionally, in case you missed it, I'm an experienced player and I can tell you that convoluted reasoning is not a favored play method. Winning is the ultimate goal. Every day that the scum have to survive a lynch is not beneficial to their win condition. Particularly in this game where we have such little information to go on and scum have such an outright chance to win today. In absolutely no way does it make sense for a scum player to want to prolong this game by bussing their partner today.

I really find it astounding that people are finding your illogical argument making to be coming from town, but whatever.

WIFOM is based on the question would you do it or would you not. This question is subjective as you can simply do it to make others think you wouldn't or don't do it to make others think you would. The case of you not claiming doc clearly applies. Thus, it should be a null-tell.

Very few scum decisions in my experience come down to trying to out WIFOM the town. Perhaps in NKs at times, but generally during the day it comes down to "what is going to best further my win-con at this point in time." That's not WIFOM, that's just smart play.

VP, between Vi and Sotty, who do you think is scummier ( non-subjective ) to what others' reasoning or lynch preference? Or do you even have an opinion at all?
I don't understand your question. Rephrase. If you're generally asking who I think is scummier, it's Sotty by far.


preview edit:

I suppose I have gone after nopoint slightly more, but that's also partially because I find that I have to string Sottyrulez out more on their own. Nopoint is reacting and posting big walls (almost strictly about me mind you), so that is no effort. Sotty is probably a tougher nut to crack, so it involves more observation. Needless to say, I don't care for how either of them have approached today. I get a survivalist vibe from both, which I expect from scum.
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Post Post #148  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:29 am

VP Baltar wrote:
curiouskarmadog wrote:
VP Baltar wrote:well, It's certainly not a 100% town read. Why would Vi-scum in that situation suggest a lynch on her buddy though?


really? why not? a suggestion is not a vote.

I just feel that we're closing in on a vote and that vibe was there when I asked. It's hard for me to see why Vi would push anything in the direction of a buddy at that point when she could nudge toward a townie and win the game outright.


like the lynch he was on yesterday?...like how he was leaning before the massclaim?
annnnd, I am retired.

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Post Post #149  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:42 am

I'm not sure I'm understanding your questions correctly, but the only real reason Vi ended on that lynch yesterday was because you hammered so quickly...and I was leaning your way too until you claimed. I find both of those things to be reasonable from a town perspective. It's time to look at the forest and not the trees in this case.
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