Alright this is going to be a mega post since I'm the center of the universe super nova black hole sun etc. etc.
Vi's mind-read questions wrote:You want to know my thought process while questioning him? Or why I decided he was probably town at the end of the discussion? Or something else I'm not seeing?
1) My thought process basically started off on the day like 'well, the scumminess of ckd's hammer is obvious, but is it TOO obvious to actually be coming from scum.' Post 51 I make my joke about a reroll because I'm frustrated with what he did if he's town. I then ask him to back up what he said about doing that move before, because sometimes scum like to say 'oh yeah, I've done that before...METADON'TLYNCHME' without actually having a good meta to back it up. He then tries to squirm out of giving links because it's "wifom," which is a BS excuse in my book and I state so in post 56. I then decided to do some work on my own to check out what ckd's thoughts are on fake voting by looking at his modded games. I don't see a rule explicitly stating names need to be correct for votes, but ultimately I wasn't really feeling this as conclusive evidence damning him. I decided to push it anyhow to see what his response would be.
Reading his post 57, I did sort of believe his "I sent the mod a PM telling him not to count it, but then he did it anyhow". Additionally, he did appear to be genuinely looking for his games even though he was failing at finding them. There was even an MD thread he created, which I saw later. This shows genuine town effort and not coasting scum. Ckd then posts the game he was thinking about, but it's not really the same scenario. This again makes me question whether he is scum or town trying this. Post 78 is me pushing him again to see which way he bends. I was also under the impression before that he had asked the mod before voting. In post 80 he reveals that he voted first, which is more believable than what I thought he did (ie ask, grow impatient waiting and vote anyway). Ckd was consistent while I was questioning him and stood by what he claimed his reasoning to be even though I felt more than one hole in his logic had been pointed out. This again is a town mentality, as I'd expect scum in that situation to change their story to sound more plausible.
Additionally, during my exchange with ckd we had nopoint chime in (post 74) with no actual line of questioning or trying to figure out anything. He just said that he didn't believe ckd. This is, of course, the world famous godfather post, but it stank and continues to stink to me for the sheer sideline wagon pushing mentality of it. So, with my questioning of ckd finished at that moment before massclaim, I felt confident enough to look elsewhere.
2) I guess this is answered by number one. Combination of him genuinely trying to explain himself and sticking with a ridiculous story when I would expect scum to backtrack.
3) I don't know what else I'm not seeing. you'll have to tell me.
nopoint wrote:Can you provide your meta on Vi and Sotty while you're at it because I've never played with her or in fact any of the people still remaining.
No. Giving out my meta reads for no reason kind of defeats the purpose of me having meta reads on people. I think what I gave is sufficient. If you want a town or scum meta read of Vi, she has a very extensively annotated wiki.
No, I don't expect you to come to a conclusion. Even I'm not in any type of real conclusion at that time and now. However, I do expect you to take a stance. You couldn't have figured out CKD's probable alignment if you don't take a stance and pressure your target. To me, it sounded more like you were equivocating yourself out of commitment before the doctor has claimed.
In case you forgot, you did take a stance. You said you didn't believe him at all. Following your own logic, why didn't you ever pressure ckd if you didn't believe him? Also, please explain how I was equivocating myself out of commitment by asking questions in earnest and essentially leading the questioning of ckd's motives for his hammer?
What you said was not untrue. However, it is greatly inconsistent. After CKD's hammer, you have made a lot of points against him but are still "trying to figure out his alignment". On the other hand, you called me and Shotty scum with such a small reason as we are inactive ( Note both situations are in LYLO ).
Still don't get how I'm "framing" you two. Or what you mean by inconsistent. Inconsistent compared to what?
3> I didn't say it was scummy. What do you imply by I will get my lynch sooner or later?
I assumed you were since you were calling many silly things scummy in that post. I'm implying you're scum and you'll be lynched as such.
4> Again, discussing this is WIFOM-ic. It can easily be twisted around either way so I'd gladly see it as a null-tell.
No, you're using WIFOM as an excuse. Large amounts of this game are WIFOM, it doesn't mean they should be ignored. I provided logical reasoning why I would not do it. What you have failed to provide is logical reasoning as to why I would do it. I would actually like answers to my questions instead of you copping out of it as WIFOM.
Sottyrulez wrote:Scum won both games.
That's not what I asked. I asked if the scum were imminently in a position to win the game when it occured. First, I don't know why you were being vague about Gonzo....though I guess I can say because it firmly does not apply to this situation. Sotty did not intend to bus both days to get town cred and you very well know that. It was a mistake. I find it dubious that you are pushing this as evidence supporting your case. I haven't read the newbie game, but I have a sneaking suspicion that was an equally dumb move by a newbie who didn't understand the situation rather than being strategic about town cred.
Excellent deflection. (Yes I know what I did there.)
I was being serious. I know you're busy and what not, but in fairness, so am I. I mean, that excuse only gets so much mileage in my book.
An out how? If we are so “innocuous” like you say, what would we need an out for?
An out for looking so scummy.
We refuse to believe you are cleared just because it would have been easier for scum to have counterclaimed CKD. Especially with this player list. The fact you seemed to leave yourself open for CKD being town when everyone else thought he was scum twigs our scumdar too. You seemed to know he was town and after he claimed doc you rolled with it.
Nobody said I was cleared. I just said it was unlikely that I as scum would have motivation for doing that given ckd's play. The player list is irrelevant. Additionally:
VP wrote:Who would you have believed more easily was the real doctor?
Also, why does it matter now who is posting? Earlier you said it didn't matter but now it does? Do you find one of us easier to discredit than the other?
I have theories. Theories that have nothing to do with discrediting. Feel free to answer.
Then you keep trying to qualify the point by saying “I acknowledged day wasn't that long BUT...” It's a BS point. We know it, you know it, yet you keep banging that drum. Why?
It's not a BS point. I can only go on what you post in thread. I find that lacking. I'm stating so. How is that BS?
Anything I can do to help.
