Open 309 - Fire and Ice [Game Over]

[Toro]

Matt is going the wrong way.

Would you agree or disagree with this, Toro?

Disagree, that post was what gave me uneasy vibes regarding Robo, the 3rd answer he gave just sounds like "Well I will play to the best of abilities and won't divulge any info on if I really am, and no, no I'm not." Obviously you don't want to say yes to a question like that, but the way he said no was raising some red flags in my head.

I just realize I haven't answered matt's questions yet.

1. I've been playing mafia for...gee whiz, it's been a while, 4 years I'm guessing?
2. I'll be online enough where I can post every day.
3. No, but I am a Spanish translation for bull.

Vote: Toro.

When he's speaking with Hiraki, his posts are implying that his own reads count for nothing. This is how scum talks.

I was merely questioning what Hiraki was trying to get after, I think you might be reading a bit too much into this. And it's nice playing with you again Nik.

[LadyHaHa]

Sorry for my late arrival.

1. How long have you been playing?
2. How often are you "planning" on posting?
3. Are you mafia?

1. A year or so.
2. I will read each day and post when I have something to add.
3. No.

b) When you say that you are lazy and don't want to explain your post, but that you will anyway, are you attempting to make it look as if you are doing everyone a favour by explaining yourself, or is it something else? If it is something else, please explain what it was.

No, no way. My reads aren't that valuable. To be truthful, I was simply exhausted from a long day but felt the need to point out what struck as odd to me.

Also, pointing out reads could be helpful to the town, yes, but I'm not doing anyone a "favor" by outing them and the town doesn't owe me anything. I was afraid that might be taken out of context.

Why do you insist on minimizing your own input into the game? If you were afraid it would be taken out of context then why did you post it? You seem to me attempting to play dumb and you insist that what you have to say is not that important. You can not actively try this hard to hide and still actually hide.

Also this:

The game is afoot.

3. Are you mafia?

3.I plead the fifth.

If Robo's answer was bad, then what do you make of this one?

VOTE: Projectmatt

[projectmatt]

A few concerns about your argument:

Why do you insist on minimizing your own input into the game? If you were afraid it would be taken out of context then why did you post it? You seem to me attempting to play dumb and you insist that what you have to say is not that important. You can not actively try this hard to hide and still actually hide.

If I was trying to hide, I would be hiding. I'm not. I made that post without realizing that it COULD be taken out of context, and when it potentially was, I decided to set the record straight

I noticed Amor's reaction, btw, and I honestly don't see that much wrong with it. Do you? Do you see what I see in Robo, Haha?

[Kcdaspot]

*rereads thread*

welp.

VOTE: projectmatt

[LadyHaHa]

If I was trying to hide, I would be hiding. I'm not. I made that post without realizing that it COULD be taken out of context, and when it potentially was, I decided to set the record straight

WHY DO YOU POST SOMETHING IF YOU REALIZE IT COULD BE MISINTERPRETED?

I noticed Amor's reaction, btw, and I honestly don't see that much wrong with it. Do you? Do you see what I see in Robo, Haha?

Perhaps I don't see the same thing as you, what I see in Robo is exactly what I saw in Amor's reaction. How are the two different?

[projectmatt]

WHY DO YOU POST SOMETHING IF YOU REALIZE IT COULD BE MISINTERPRETED?

..Um, did you completely miss my post? I said I made the post WITHOUT REALIZING it could have been taken out of context, then when I realized it could be, I corrected myself.

Perhaps I don't see the same thing as you, what I see in Robo is exactly what I saw in Amor's reaction. How are the two different?

I don't see that post (or any other post by him, for that matter) to be forced. That's honestly just it. I don't see what you see.

[Hiraki]

Spoiler. Robo made mature answers to get town points.

99.9% sure of this.

[YoYoGuy435]

Vote: projectmatt

I know the third vote is supposed to be scummy and all, but I think I'll go ahead and take that vote. I wanted to wait and vote so that I could get a stronger read on everyones alignment. I have to say that the basis of this vote is that projectmatt has been way to overly-defensive IMO. I just feel like somebody pointed something out and he started flopping like a fish out of water.

[projectmatt]

Not really

defending

but rather responding to questions. I'm pretty sure if I didn't answer them right now I would look even stranger.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for Robo to plead his case so I can (hopefully) verify my read on him.

[projectmatt]

Also, if you feel your vote is justified, why are you so concerned about it being the third? It shouldn't matter as long as you have reasoning.

[YoYoGuy435]

Not really

defending

but rather responding to questions. I'm pretty sure if I didn't answer them right now I would look even stranger.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for Robo to plead his case so I can (hopefully) verify my read on him.

Also, if you feel your vote is justified, why are you so concerned about it being the third? It shouldn't matter as long as you have reasoning.

I'm not saying that you responding to the questions is scummy. What I'm saying is that the

way

your responding to the questions is scummy. Your responses seem frantic and sort of panicky, which in my previous experience means maf about 75% of the time.

Now about my pointing out the whole 3rd vote being scummy thing. I pointed that out because I would rather point that out myself then have someone else point it out for me. I'll put it this way, remember when your parents would ask you if you're lying and would tell you I won't get you in as much trouble if you tell me the truth now. That's the way I play my mafia games, if I'm about to do something I believe some people may believe is scummy, I'll go ahead and point it out before they do. The reason I do this is because I would rather point out my scummy behavior on my own, so that no one believes I have anything to hide. If that makes sense. If it doesn't make sense I'll reword it later.

[Hiraki]

Also, if you feel your vote is justified, why are you so concerned about it being the third? It shouldn't matter as long as you have reasoning.

QFT. However, I think in hindsight he's town from this.

[Tid]

KCD and Robo are striking me as the most scummy, reasoning should be obvious to you all I'm sure.
Gonna wait a little longer and then pick between the two.

The reasoning is in fact not obvious to me. Enlighten us.

And I agree with silavor that this post is scummy. It's waiting to see where the wagon goes, and it's also setting up a false dichotomy and being vote-shy, which scum often do in an attempt to keep their head down. Yeah, I have a real vote now.

Unvote
Vote Tid

Fine. KCD's cross voting earlier seems like it could be a bus (obviously that would mean Hikari is his buddy). That "mistake" he kept referring to without ever clarifying stuck me as a little out of place too. My suspicion on Robocop comes from the way he completely threw that "legal obligation" comment out of nowhere and made himself seem scummy as hell. I'm sticking to my guns and not voting just yet, but Robo is probably going to be my final decision.

[Amor]

Amor, I didn't think I'd actually have to point this out... It's kinda obvious.

I dunno, it's awkward but it seems pretty minor to me.

Now about my pointing out the whole 3rd vote being scummy thing. I pointed that out because I would rather point that out myself then have someone else point it out for me. I'll put it this way, remember when your parents would ask you if you're lying and would tell you I won't get you in as much trouble if you tell me the truth now. That's the way I play my mafia games, if I'm about to do something I believe some people may believe is scummy, I'll go ahead and point it out before they do. The reason I do this is because I would rather point out my scummy behavior on my own, so that no one believes I have anything to hide. If that makes sense. If it doesn't make sense I'll reword it later.

Red flags going off here. Note the comparison between what he's doing and an admission of guilt (the bit about admitting you were lying to your parents) -- this isn't exactly the comparison I would use to describe admitting that some people might misinterpret an action. Being seen as scummy isn't something town should feel guilty over, or try to head off with rhetoric. This seems more like a scum strategy to dismiss/discourage attacks on you.

(Besides which, no one even uses "3rd vote on the wagon" as a tell anymore. Who's the one being defensive again?)

Fine. KCD's cross voting earlier seems like it could be a bus (obviously that would mean Hikari is his buddy). That "mistake" he kept referring to without ever clarifying stuck me as a little out of place too. My suspicion on Robocop comes from the way he completely threw that "legal obligation" comment out of nowhere and made himself seem scummy as hell. I'm sticking to my guns and not voting just yet, but Robo is probably going to be my final decision.

Thanks for explaining, you look a bit townier now. Like I said above I don't think Robo's comment is a big deal, but you're hardly alone in that. As for KCD, if you think that was a bus why wasn't Hikari one of your possible votes?

[Tid]

My bad, I phrased that wrong. I should've said that it was the "mistake" thing that was making my suspicious of him, and I was figuring that if I WAS right about that, then the hikari cross-vote could've been a bus.

[projectmatt]

Ugh.

I can understand Yo's explanation, I guess, but his posts tell me two interesting things.

1. He's paying close attention to "popular" mafia tells, for whatever reason.

2. He seems REALLY concerned that I just won't "GET" his explanation, like he's trying to prove something.

Sticking with Robo for now, but please keep that in mind.

[Kcdaspot]

KCD and Robo are striking me as the most scummy, reasoning should be obvious to you all I'm sure.
Gonna wait a little longer and then pick between the two.

The reasoning is in fact not obvious to me. Enlighten us.

And I agree with silavor that this post is scummy. It's waiting to see where the wagon goes, and it's also setting up a false dichotomy and being vote-shy, which scum often do in an attempt to keep their head down. Yeah, I have a real vote now.

Unvote
Vote Tid

Fine. KCD's cross voting earlier seems like it could be a bus (obviously that would mean Hikari is his buddy). That "mistake" he kept referring to without ever clarifying stuck me as a little out of place too. My suspicion on Robocop comes from the way he completely threw that "legal obligation" comment out of nowhere and made himself seem scummy as hell. I'm sticking to my guns and not voting just yet, but Robo is probably going to be my final decision.

soooo... I was bussing.... in RVS..... ummmmm.... wat?

[Tid]

I said it was possible IF you were Mafia, which was my suspicion due to the other thing.
It's completely possible to bus in RVS because if you lead a lynch on someone who turns out to be maf, it gives people the impression that you probably aren't maf, or at least not the same maf faction as the lynched.

[Robocopter87]

Good enough.

VOTE: Robo

. I'm kind of lazy and don't want to explain, but I will anyway.

Hey man! Long time no see! You are still one of my favorite mods. And you were also very fun to play with. Great to see you [/buddying]

I'll be one of the Mature ones and answer the questions normally.

1. I've been playing since December 2009. So about a year and half.
2. Ummm... It really depends. I dunno, as often as I can I hope. If I have content of course.
3. It is my legal obligation to play to my win condition. And as such, my answer is No.

Pointing out his own tells, and this entire freaking posts just sounds forced.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who noticed this. It stuck out like a sore thumb.

I didn't really see anything too wrong with this. I mean, seeing as the amount of info. Its a pro-town attempt yet still utterly wrong.

Listen, pointing out my own tells? You talking about the [/buddying]? Because thats just my way of saying, "I'm just saying Hi. I'm not playing yet. Now I'm playing". Sounds Forced? I really have no clue what you mean. I really don't. I culd say everbodys post sound forced. Its impossible to tell. (This post right now will most likely sound pretty irritated.) But sure, it was a pro town attempt. However this,

Matt's focusing on the wrong things with Robo, and robo is scum.

Vote: Robocopter87

Is just stupid. No reasoning. No attempt to explain anything at all. Doesn't explain why Matt is wrong. Pretty much, hes just jumping on a bandwagon pretending to know everything.

KCD and Robo are striking me as the most scummy, reasoning should be obvious to you all I'm sure.
Gonna wait a little longer and then pick between the two.

Nononononono. lets pretend for a second that it isn't obvious. Lets pretend that I have no idea why its so obvious. Would you be so kind as to show me whats so obvious?

KCD and Robo are striking me as the most scummy, reasoning should be obvious to you all I'm sure.
Gonna wait a little longer and then pick between the two.

You mean you're gonna pick the one that gets the bigger bandwagon and lower public approval rating? Sounds like bet hedging to me.

Hypocrite.

O WAIT. I see the obvious reasoning now.

Amor, I didn't think I'd actually have to point this out... It's kinda obvious.

3. It is my legal obligation to play to my win condition. And as such, my answer is No.

What did you want me to say? Yes? No? I dunno? Something funny? Please enlighten me.

Robocopter87 wrote:3. It is my legal obligation to play to my win condition. And as such, my answer is No.

Just for the record, this is

exactly

what I was attempting to point out when I said he sounded forced.

Also, pointing out reads could be helpful to the town, yes, but I'm not doing anyone a "favor" by outing them and the town doesn't owe me anything. I was afraid that might be taken out of context.

Again. Somebody said, "Whatever you want me to be babe." Somebody said, " I plead the fifth". Yet my answer is somehow wrong?

Spoiler. Robo made mature answers to get town points.

99.9% sure of this.

Duh.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for Robo to plead his case so I can (hopefully) verify my read on him.

Wow! I was waiting for you to show some valid reasoning! Man, its a small world after all.

[Hiraki]

Why would you want to get town points if you were town? Last time I checked, we're playing mafia, not "who-can-get-the-most-town-points". I know scum plays that a lot though.

[Toro]

Again. Somebody said, "Whatever you want me to be babe." Somebody said, " I plead the fifth". Yet my answer is somehow wrong?

It's not that your answer is necessarily wrong, it's how you worded it that's throwing up red flags. I actually don't like Amor's response more than yours, "I plead the 5th?" Really? A simple no would've done fine.

Unvote

Vote: Amor

I'm also concerned how projectmatt didn't raise an eyebrow at Amor's comment.

[Cirno]

Official Vote Count as of post #70

Nikanor (1)- Alduskkel
Robocopter87 (3)-Hiraki projectmatt silavor
Toro (1)- Nikanor
Tid (1)- Amor
projectmatt (3)- LadyHaHa Kcdaspot YoYoGuy435
Amor (1)- Toro

Not Voting(2) - Tid Robocopter87

The deadline for Day 1 is Sunday, June 5, 2011 at 3:27:43 PM CDT.
If no player is lynched by that time, a no lynch will occur.

With

12

players alive, it takes

7

votes to lynch.

[Kcdaspot]

I said it was possible IF you were Mafia, which was my suspicion due to the other thing.
It's completely possible to bus in RVS because if you lead a lynch on someone who turns out to be maf, it gives people the impression that you probably aren't maf, or at least not the same maf faction as the lynched.

... rvs is just a way to get a response from people.

he responded to me vie OMGUS.

that by itself IS scummy but that was in RVS. so instead of the full 5 scum points he gets 1. AND HE'S BEEN TOWN POSTING EVER SINCE.

scumhunt better, you're going off a "what if?" at this point.

[Nikanor]

Robo, why aren't you voting for silavor?

[Tid]

You're talking as if that's the main crux of my argument. It's not. It's a theory that I think may be the case if you do turn out to be scum.
@Robo: I explained why you were suspicious to me a few posts back.