Open 321: Kc's FIRE and ICE: Game over.

[Klazam]

VE- Logic for Krazy please.

[VisceraEyes]

I mean, I'll make the big post. I'll make a big fucking case that shows you EXACTLY why Krazy is scum. But EVERYONE better then immediately vote for him to die because I'm seriously sick of his bs. I'm town, and it doesn't matter what his read is or how long he's had it, I've been town the entire game.

....Later. Right now, I work.

[killerjester]

Is it later yet?

[Cirno]

>Klazam flipflopping all over the place
>David continuing to do nothing
>Krazy continuing to megapost while convincing no one of anything
>Scum promising to make a case on scum
>People actually stop posting and wait for said case
>Meanwhile VE posts in another thread and neglects the case
>6 days until deadline

[Klazam]

I'm flopping because i dont trust anybody.....

If nothing happens in 2 days, i'll lay down a vote, and it aint budging.

[David Xanatos]

David is trying to figure out the best option. Not "doing nothing"..

[killerjester]

I'll sheep a Krazy/Cirno wagon by deadline, whichever one looks most-likely.

Leaning towards Cirno. He seems to be selectively reading.

[Cirno]

If you want to me to write out a post because you've forgotten what I may or may not have written and can't take 15 seconds to look in iso, you can fuck right off.

[killerjester]

The point is I'm killerjester and I ask questions I already know the answer to. Because sometimes scum slip up, and people catch these things.

Answer the question. And if you haven't mentioned it, tell me why KJ/VE is still likely after the doc protect on VE.

[Cirno]

>The point is I'm killerjester and I ask questions I already know the answer to. Because sometimes scum slip up, and people catch these things.

So you were trying to cause me to slip up... by asking me a yes or no question... about whether or not I have commented on a doc save?

More likely, you wanted to attack me on something but couldn't actually remember if I'd actually made the argument you wanted to attack and were too lazy to check iso. The last line of your post would imply that said argument is "KJ/VE is still likely after the doc protect on VE". I've not been paying enough attention to know what the issue is with this argument, so if you want me to give an opinion on it, you'll have to explain it to me.

[killerjester]

>ignore KJ's meta
>ignore KJ's stated reason
>pretend there is another reason

...aiight..but I guess I've done that with you so I'll let it slide

The biggest argument against KJ/VE is that David prevented the ice kill Night 3 by protecting VE. Naturally, VE can't shoot himself. So if you want to believe in a KJ/VE team you have to assume the team no-killed N3. And David had already made it openly clear that he was not saving me with the doc save.

Conclusion 1! I think it's fairly likely the KJ/VE team, knowing that David would not protect KJ, would still no-kill hoping for a save on VE that would only clear him from being ice-scum.
Conclusion 2! The above doesn't seem likely at all, so KJ/VE probably aren't a scumteam.

Tell me why conclusion 1 is fairly likely in your mind.

[Krazy]

So here's what I'm seeing.

VE's accusations against me today have been absolutely terrible and utterly unconvincing.

Yet, until his case on me today, VE's play was getting better throughout the game. He hasn't been anywhere near this ridiculous until making the case on me today since day 1.

Now he's struggling to mount a case against me after like half a week.

These three data points suggests one thing to me: VE, quite frankly, knows I am town. He doesn't actually want to lynch me. There is only one reason that someone would fabricate an ice scum team in this game, and that is if they are ice scum and need to somehow direct the lynch onto fire. This just screams to me that Cirno is the fire mafia, and that VE is basically nudging at me hoping that people will see his case as terrible and revert back to Cirno as the default lynch for today.

I'm increasingly unsure again of who his partner is. Now KJ is selectively reading (ignoring my 1164 altogether) and trying to push the wagon back onto Cirno. However, Klazam still, strictly speaking, makes more sense as VE's partner, especially in regard to the nightkill. Play previous to day 1 indicates Klazam, all the play today indicates KJ, and it's really just exasperating to figure this out.

I'm going back to this:

Unvote, vote VE

I'm sure VE will 'make his grand case' now.

[killerjester]

Yea I'm not selectively reading.

[Cirno]

So, from my understanding
-VE was protected by David on night 3
-Fire killed smarg
-There was only one kill
-Therefore either VE is not ice or ice no killed

Well, there is no way VE is not scum, so this would make him the remaining fire mafia. Eliminating the doc, that leaves scum among KJ, Krazy, Klazam.

Klazam and Krazy

Krazy is currently pushing Klazam as scum and Klazam has expressed a willingness to lynch Krazy. While Krazy's push on Klazam is utterly futile and could be viewed as distancing, Klazam actually pressured KJ into voting Krazy. I think this team is unlikely.

Klazam and KJ

Klazam claims to wish to lynch KJ, but is reluctant to commit to his vote. However, KJ does seem to feel that he needs to convince Klazam, and has put considerable effort towards doing so. Add to that the aforementioned pressure that Klazam put on KJ, and I think this team is the least likely.

Krazy and KJ

KJ claims to be willing to vote Krazy but had to be strong-armed into doing so and quickly found a reason to unvote even though Krazy remains one of his preferred lynches.

Of those, the latter seems the most likely and when added to the fact that I believe that Klazam is town, it becomes the only possibility. And of KJ and Krazy, KJ has more persuasive ability by far, so I'm keeping my vote where it is.

[Krazy]

Cirno, so basically, you're saying VE bussed Reab yesterday when he could just as easily have lynched KJ instead?

As for me and KJ being a scumteam, lolnope.

[Cirno]

By saying that VE "could just as easily have lynched KJ instead", you are referring to the fact that at one point both KJ and Reab were simulataneously at L-2? If so, that is misleading. In order to lynch KJ, VE required two more people to vote along with him. In comparison, Reab was effectively at L-1

without

VE's vote because Klazam had already definitively stated "Reab is scum.". This means that Reab was much more likely to be lynched than KJ and VE knew it. Therefore the statement "VE could just as easily have lynched KJ instead" is false. Hence VE bussed.

You dudes keep making me look back in the thread but you are only making my conviction stronger by doing so.

[Krazy]

Therefore the statement "VE could just as easily have lynched KJ instead" is false. Hence VE bussed.

You dudes keep making me look back in the thread but you are only making my conviction stronger by doing so.

Okay, but if you've been paying attention to this game's flow, a lot of scummy people were pushed to L-1 or whatever and gotten off. People left and right said and did things this game that were ridiculous. So with Reab already at L-2, and Klazam being MC-HAMMER, VE bussing at this point in time was basically saying "You will die immediately;" if he had stalled at all, someone else might have said something stupid and Reab might have walked. This was a very aggressive bus and honestly I just don't see it from VE. He's been willing to defend people in the hot seat this game and doesn't always push what otherwise would be the most popular wagon. It makes no sense for him to bus his buddy in such a critical situation so quickly.

[VisceraEyes]

Okay, I went back and reread, and aside from his absolute assurance that I'm scum, which is mistaken, there's nothing even remotely suspicious. I could argue that he opportunistically jumped on bandwagons, but in all reality, he's suspected me from d1 and hasn't deviated from that mindset in his actions OR votes. Any other votes he's cast have been on people he genuinely also suspected of being scum.

Therefor - I stand by my initial read...that Krazy is just way misguided town.

UNVOTE: Krazy

Raise your hand if you didn't see this post coming.

Who then is scum? Right now I'm looking at interactions between the active members of the game. The trouble is that EVERYONE in the game, aside from DX, has voiced pretty much absolute certainty that I'm scum, which is troubling obviously. The VAST majority of the discussion has revolved around one of two topics: the likelihood that I, assuming Fire Mafia, would bus my 'mate' Reab, and the likelihood that I, assuming Ice Mafia, and my 'mate' of whomever would no-kill on the night that DX presumably saved me.

The most important thing I think we're overlooking here is, incidentally, the most simple. I'm town. I've been wrong on my reads, as we all have, but because of my scummy play, I've been kept alive PRIMARILY because I'm a great lynch target. Look at the facts. Everyone in the game...literally everyone I think...has voiced suspicion of me at one point or another. Krazy, in particular, has had me as his #1 suspect since d1. Yet I keep not dying. How is that SUPPOSED to look? I think scum are playing an exceptionally good game this game...mainly because no matter WHO'S behind the curtain, a scum victory APPEARS inevitable.

Now, I don't expect this to sway ANYONE, because as I've said, scum are playing a GREAT game this game and they have town allies like Krazy and myself. Krazy because of his deep-rooted suspicion of me, and myself for my exceptionally scummy (apparently..I still don't see it) play.

This means that our 3 scum are Cirno, KJ and Klazam. As for who's on what team, I think that Klazam is Fire Mafia and Cirno and KJ are Ice.

And finally,

VOTE: KJ but will vote Cirno also when it comes down to it. Voting Klazam, imo, will result in Ice Victory.

[Cirno]

>I think scum are playing an exceptionally good game this game
>EVERYONE in the game [...] has voiced pretty much absolute certainty that I'm scum

[killerjester]

Well can we lynch Cirno then? I didn't really follow your logic all that well but you definitely reached the scum-Cirno boat with me. I mean you go and ignore parts where I was pleading for the fire scum to shoot Cirno for a portion of the game. But as long as I do have you here I'd gladly vote Cirno with you.

[killerjester]

VOTE: Cirno

WITH ME, VE!! Unless you're rethinking the KJ/Cirno scumteam.

[Kcdaspot]

Post count will go on next page. You all have 3 days. Also: Check rule 9. If you can't reach majority with 4 votes in 3 days no one will be lynched period.

Fair warning.

[Klazam]

post count? that's easy, there's 1198 posts now.

In other news:

vote Krazy

Krazy-KJ, or Krazy-Cirno, i dont know,but i believe it is krazy who's the scum.

[killerjester]

Klazam, would you consider voting Cirno?
VE, would you consider voting Krazy?

One of you needs to give way a little. If Krazy/Cirno aren't going to bus each other we need all of our votes to lynch them (and David too!)

[Klazam]

i wouldnt consider voting cirno.