Open 585: Jungle Republic (ended)

[Ginko]

Nah. It's getting pretty annoying that you just keep asking me that instead of game-related stuff though.

P-Edit: You sure are doing a good job of letting me do what I want to do before calling me out on potentially sidelining.
-Cheetory6

[Honey bee]

Vote count 1.01

Aristophanes(4):

West9, Ginko, Lyserg-Zeroz, VysePresident

Ginko(3):

Gliffie, acryon, orcinus_theoriginal

orcinus_theoriginal (2):

Aristophanes, Metalcyanide

VystePresident(1):

prawneater

Not voting: farstefan, Lalendra

With 12 alive It takes 7 to lynch. Day ends in: (expired on 2015-01-22 22:14:00)

*edited rule 6 of the general game mechanics because I forgot to include no lynching into my ruleset*

[orcinus_theoriginal]

oh trust me. i have stronger tells on you than sidelining and you'll know when they start clicking

why didn't you give your meta of me in post 70?
why didn't you call ppl out on questioning my votes especially after the discussion about stacking votes?
more importantly cheetoy, why aren't you asking me any questions? did i really earn a free pass with AW because i don't think that's how you operate

[Ginko]

why didn't you give your meta of me in post 70?
why didn't you call ppl out on questioning my votes especially after the discussion about stacking votes?
more importantly cheetoy, why aren't you asking me any questions? did i really earn a free pass with AW because i don't think that's how you operate

i) Because I'm more curious as to Ari's impression of you without the influence of my meta on you.
ii&iii) I don't really like touching other people's reaction test bullshit until after it's over and it was clear you were trying to do stuff. I have had questions about what you're doing, but you're harder to sort than other people and I find it easier to read people's reactions to you than your reactions to whatever questions I have at this point.

Why're you jumping on me for this right now?

-Cheetory6

[orcinus_theoriginal]

not really. i was waiting for people to call me out and that's already happened so we can talk about whatever

it feels like you are setting ari up for a mislynch or at least baiting him into a bad situation because i was obviously underplaying my own strength

to be honest i totally expected you to call me out on the rvs gimmick (it's actually my MO in the vast vast majority of games, but i didn't do it in advance wars so i've no idea why you didn't jump on it). did you feel like i was trying to target someone else with it?

do you feel like i'm "jumping" on you right now? how hard do you think my scumread is? does it make you nervous?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Why're you jumping on me for this right now?

related--do you expect me to not jump on you, ie do my posts surprise you in any way?

[Ginko]

it feels like you are setting ari up for a mislynch or at least baiting him into a bad situation because i was obviously underplaying my own strength

Can I come back to you on this?

to be honest i totally expected you to call me out on the rvs gimmick (it's actually my MO in the vast vast majority of games, but i didn't do it in advance wars so i've no idea why you didn't jump on it). did you feel like i was trying to target someone else with it?

Why're you expecting me to remember what you did at the start of a huge game that I replaced into at like page 80?

do you feel like i'm "jumping" on you right now? how hard do you think my scumread is? does it make you nervous?

I mean, I'm honestly a little paranoid that you're trying to push me into thinking this is the same situation as last game. It kind of strikes me that you might be trying to get me to townread you, especially with how impatient it feels you're being with me.

-Cheetory6

[orcinus_theoriginal]

sure

that did slip my mind, my apologies. so you thought my RVS here was characteristic and not alignment-indicative?

more importantly, i said that i've already accomplished what i wanted to.

I have had questions about what you're doing

why hasn't this happened yet?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

how impatient it feels you're being with me

oh trust me. i have stronger tells on you than sidelining and you'll know when they start clicking

reconcile these two statements please

[Ginko]

why hasn't this happened yet?

Was mostly just curious as to what you actually make of those who reacted to you vs those who didn't and what you thought you'd get out of it in the first place. Neither of which I particularly wanted to ask while you're doing what you're doing.
I've also wanted to ask you about my main scumspect but I'm being all coy about it right now, so you'll just have to wait.

so you thought my RVS here was characteristic and not alignment-indicative?

Not really. I haven't looked at your scum meta at all, but I easily could see you being equally proactive in the earlygame as scum.

@83: I'm not really sure I understand? Can you be more explicit with what you mean?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

metalcyanide seems simultaneously self-concerned and not legitimately curious

don't really care about aritophanes' vote. no idea why acryon seemed defensive though

you said that i was impatient with you, presumably because you think that i expect you to do things faster (ie in your post, i expect you to townread me) and you are playing close to the chest. however, i've made it clear that the strength of my read on you is not particularly strong and that i'm not hard-scumming you for sidelining (ie i'm fine with you playing as you are).

have i said, after you 'explained' why you were playing close to the chest, that you were scum for doing so? no.

so in what way am i being impatient?

[Ginko]

oh trust me. i have stronger tells on you than sidelining and you'll know when they start clicking

How is this not saying your read isn't particularly strong? I don't get it?

[Ginko]

Double post for signature. Last post was me.

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[orcinus_theoriginal]

eh. never mind that then. there's a subtle message there that didn't get across.

[Lyserg-Zeroz]

i was waiting for people to call me out and that's already happened so we can talk about whatever

I'm curious and since that's already done, I'm just gonna ask: Was there a plan and a predefined read you thought you'd get from players calling you out or were you just waiting for anything?

UNVOTE: Aristophanes
I can see

I am actually a little uptight about that. Acryon, whats with that? Trying to get an early wagon going?

being said for the sake of getting reactions, so I'm somewhat willing to buy his "testing the waters" thing and to feel retroactively less odd about that first thing he said to Ginko.
VOTE: West
How about you? With "heavy heavy backpedalling" I assume you mean he was lying. I feel like you are exaggerating that... or maybe I'm just too naïve (or maybe both... probably both things). Ari is doing that thing where he seems to take some silliness way too literally but I remember him being a bit like that when he was on the Ladd hydra, so I'm not making much out of that, are you?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Was there a plan and a predefined read you thought you'd get from players calling you out or were you just waiting for anything?

i was definitely waiting for cheetoy to call me out. i don't think it's ok that that didn't end up happening but i'm not totally sure. still think he was baiting aristophanes, but i can wait.

and i don't know any of you so more i wanted to banter with the people who would invariably vote me

what do you think of cheet on this page?

[Lyserg-Zeroz]

^Have you played with VysePresident before? Do you have any impression of him yet?

As for Cheet/Ginko:
Looking back on it his "Why're you jumping on me for this right now?" question feels weird, but I can't quite put my finger on why.
Other than that, I don't have much thoughts on the Ginko hydra yet. I feel like I'm terrible at reading Cheet (and just had mixed success with Johnny), so I'm also never too eager on throwing reads at either of them. I'm waiting for the moment where he will state his real scumsuspect or where he'll make a "grand-case" sort of post where he'll actually make a push for a lynch. I also don't have any trouble with him not calling you out and can buy that he didn't want to interfere with your tests and/or had trouble reading you, mainly because I felt more or less the same way about you (read bits of your pasts games and you struck me like a wild-card sort of player).

[orcinus_theoriginal]

no

read bits of your pasts games

which

[Lyserg-Zeroz]

^No on both things? *sadface*

Eh, I'd have to check again, wasn't paying much attention to titles or numbers, I just clicked your profile and skimmed some of the games where you posted, I recall marathon games (whatever that means) I think a mini or something with "ninja" on the title, and a game where I think you replaced someone and then got replaced by someone with "kitty" on her name. Why?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

ok

tell me why i struck you as a wild-card player and what that phrase means to you

[Ginko]

*raspberry*
VOTE: West

No particular reason, no. It's not intentional, just haven't taken the time to really parse through the game until now.

I was expecting you to come at me and call me ridiculous for not remembering that your D1s are typically slow. The passive response here seemed a little underwhelming in a way that I wasn't really expecting. Really, I just don't like that you were more keen to give me an excuse than you were to challenge me on something somewhat bullshitty. Is there some kind of reason why I read your response as being more passive than I was expecting?

It also comes across to me that the way you were asking Aristophanes questions was as you trying to intentionally confuse him to make him look worse. Specifically you pushing this kind of logic feels confusing and distracting:

Also, he still hasn't disproved my initial logic.

I want a better explanation of your Ari read and reasoning for voting him plsandty.
I also like Lyserg's point on the backpedaling, even if I'm still really paranoid of him q.q

i was definitely waiting for cheetoy to call me out. i don't think it's ok that that didn't end up happening but i'm not totally sure. still think he was baiting aristophanes, but i can wait.

You would have thought I was town if I called you out? Why? I could tell that you were trying to get reactions from people and people were actually reacting to it. What would be gained from being like "lolorci wtf are you doing"? I'm gonna come back to this after I feel more awake because you give me real bad vibes that I don't know how to put to words atm.

I'm not really sure where I'm baiting Ari..? Can you point to specific posts?

-Cheetory6

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I'm not really sure where I'm baiting Ari..?

yes you are.

it feels like you are setting ari up for a mislynch or at least baiting him into a bad situation because i was obviously underplaying my own strength

Can I come back to you on this?

You would have thought I was town if I called you out? Why?

i wouldn't have thought you were town, but i would've expected town-you to do so. it's a necessary but not sufficient condition

and like i said i'm not entirely sure. in AW you questioned anything that stood out so that's where my expectation came from.

feel free to enunciate your bad vibes and not just sling mud at me

[Lyserg-Zeroz]

ok

tell me why i struck you as a wild-card player and what that phrase means to you

Hmm... it's just the impression I got really, probably more because of the Kitty game, as for its meaning: Mostly that you'd do generally unexpected things or that I might have a hard time understanding your thought processes.

I also like Lyserg's point on the backpedaling, even if I'm still really paranoid of him q.q

I mean, you questioned that first.

What do you think of Ari's "testing the waters" response to the votes? (feel free to answer this after West has responded to you, if you feel like that's better). You said something that implied predicting Ari's vote on Orcinus: How do you read that vote?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

intercepting that question. i was an easy vote.

[Ginko]

i wouldn't have thought you were town, but i would've expected town-you to do so. it's a necessary but not sufficient condition

You've read my meta, so I don't know why you're acting like I don't have respect for reaction tests. I'm not going to assume you're doing random votes for no reason and thus I'm not going to just shit on whatever it is you're trying to do.

yes you are.

I'm tired, fight me.

feel free to enunciate your bad vibes and not just sling mud at me

I already slightly did. Can I have some time to let my thoughts sink in? I have other shit to do today and I've already spent a decent amount of time on this so far.

You said something that implied predicting Ari's vote on Orcinus: How do you read that vote?

q.q
Let's just say that Johnny and I have another bet going and I can let you know when it pans out.