Open 589: Duck Duck Goose (Game Over: Somebody Won)

[davesaz]

Ploben did very well. I kept saving my shot because I looked to be mislynch bait.

[talah]

Thenks for the game Storyteller - I really liked your mod style. You are very nice, and consistent, and funny :)
Lovely to play a game under.

It was quite fun seeing how Ploblen was viewed as the towniest player after HB. Had he not gone after HB he might have had at winning.

Grib won with town, without a single post in the thread. But he had a very small chance of activating his PGO and winning the game after Night 2. Mafia could have changed their actions after Grib joined in, but didn't.

I kinda felt bad for Grib though, I sorta expected for Grib to activate and for mafia to rethink their actions. I was pretty close to not letting Grib join in. Still I think it went well.

Good game for town in finding those two mafia early and great play for Ploblen.

True, true, true.

However, I don't hink HB had taken a strong stance on ploben and I was sure as fuck suspicious of everyone. HB was certainly the correct NK, probably the night before.

HB, you were insanely on target, thanks and I had the most awesome happiness when Kabooses flipped too :) <3
Thanks for the game :o)

Btw Kaboose - you did just fine man, a few tweaks here and there and you'd have had no problem. Same for Vettrock - you came under a lot of heat early on but I wasn't all that worried about you to tell you the truth and had you pushed on one or another player (especially Day 1) I might well have taken your opinion and agreed with it.

Dave - thanks for the game and we clashed. I'll agree with Grey on the Titus-type moonlogic and will remember it for any next time that eventuates. Problem for me in this game was, I've been subject of the scum side of that logic. I guess I have to learn to read it with more finesse; it was the interactions that I had with Odd before the ones you quoted which made me vote him.

Ploben BTW you're such a good scumplayer (you scumfuck). All I had was your lack of content after day 1 and some dubious scumthread I read (*cough*) and my commitment to re-reading everyone every day.

Nether that self-hammer was insane. I asked you to pretend that situation at the very start of the day. Please never self-hammer as town ever again. I liked your gameplay and went back when I said I would and found this game to be similar to others - if I might provide some feedback... Positions without reasons are really difficult to townread. Without good reasons in any case.

Taly, thanks for the PM and <3. I can see you're very self-conscious as well as being very analytical about the situation. Try to drop the self-consciousness - with caveat - a *bit*. Town always need to self-preserve when there are scum around, but only if they as town are at threat of lynch. I enjoyed your attitude sir.

Pisskop, ChriVi...
Hi you good things :)

I really like what you do and think you're both really fun.... after I know you're town.
For me at least, once again, it's that thing where if you're just going to state positions and ignore questions about the reasons for that I'll always find it difficult to townread you for other reasons.
Like... I don't need to know you intimately to be able to read you as town right?
You'll just town it up?
:P

Odd, thanks for the game too. I didn't have you at scum at all come day 2 and it would have been nice if you'd stuck around.
Of course you'll be seen as scum by town often anyway :)

Grey by the way I have no read on you at all even postgame. You awesome sumbich.

[pisskop]

This isn't how I consider myself to ususally play,. you.

[pisskop]

Ogre >= True Ogre ftw 4/20 get recked!

[True Ogre]

True Ogre become powerful by eating Ogre heart.

It beating in his hand while he taste its soul.

[talah]

You scamp, True Ogre ;P

[Netherspite]

@talah

At least I chosen the moment to die myself.

As a feedback to you:
If you don't get the reasons of someone or don't consider them 'good' - it does not mean there are no reasons or they are bad.
It only means that the logic is different between you and that person.
Disagreeing != scum.

[Netherspite]

Also,
One of the reasons I was really upset about this game was that I got lynched without any case. Just a couple of random pushes with the "DIE SCUM" reasoning.
I think this should be avoided by all means.

[talah]

@talah

At least I chosen the moment to die myself.

We're out of the game now. This is an impractical attitude to take both in life and ingame.
Don't self-vote as town ever, no matter how tempting it might be.
Your voice when dead is *less* influential than it was in life.

We had 2 weeks left to decide and the remaining scum wasn't voting you. And you were deathwishing town ('vote Chrivi when I'm dead').

As a feedback to you:
If you don't get the reasons of someone or don't consider them 'good' - it does not mean there are no reasons or they are bad.

I never consider anyone bad. I consider them either scum or wrong-town unless I can understand their reasoning. I always ask for reasoning, and I'm sometimes (perhaps quite often) wrong myself.

It only means that the logic is different between you and that person.
Disagreeing != scum.

If you're talking about how I was wrong about dave's logic, then yeah you were right.
The townreads I was getting from you (explanation-wise) was "it's wifom" and "I can follow his logic".
That didn't help me much as I was after reasons... :)

Pre-edit:
Seriously - never self-

vote

hammer. I TRULY understand how frustrating it can be. I've done it before (well not hammered but voted).
Even if you have to lurk because you're frustrated it helps to shape the game and gives town info.
I really enjoyed your accesisibility as I mentioned and you were very reasonable - I just didnt' understand your change off Taly dismissing your own arguments and wanted to know why that changed onto ChriVi, and I think we could have discussed that better - as much my fault as anything.

[Netherspite]

@talah

I mean both your misunderstanding with

davesaz

and me.
You didn't understand our reasons or logic yet it did not mean we're scum or wrong town.
That's what I'm trying to say. Don't take your opinion as 100% truth meaning everyone who disagrees are scum or wrong town.
And even if your opinion is correct it does not mean you should lynch everyone who's logic/reasons you don't understand/agree with.

Also, my self-hammer wouldn't matter as there were hammer intentions from other townies and I'd certainly die regardless of anything.

[talah]

Nether, you can't ball up misunderstandings with "both dave and you" as one thing since as I mentioned I hadn't even asked dave a question on Day 3 as I was wanting to reasses all players.

I guess I was right about your bullshit reason for thinking Chrivi was scum? I voted you because I didn't like that and you were on Taly the day before. I didn't have a chance to even come back in after that before you self-hammered with 2 weeks to go in the day.

So you know it did matter if ploben hadn't gotten PGOd but I guess you're more worried about being more right than I was even though it didn't play out and you were wrong?

Nether I don't need this post-game. I'm *always* going to be wrong as town and that's just mafia.

[Netherspite]

I was wrong about

Taly

and

ChriVi

, you were wrong about me and

davesaz

.
If your strategy of finding scum didn't help you as much as mine didn't help me it only means both of them are not perfect and there's nothing to be upset about. I'm just trying to explain to you that you are wrong if you think that everyone who's reasons to do this or that you don't understand are scum.

[talah]

Thank you for that, I'll keep it in mind next time tunnel town to the point of self hammering.

[talah]

I was wrong about

Taly

and

ChriVi

, you were wrong about me and

davesaz

.
If your strategy of finding scum didn't help you as much as mine didn't help me it only means both of them are not perfect and there's nothing to be upset about. I'm just trying to explain to you that you are wrong if you think that everyone who's reasons to do this or that you don't understand are scum.

I didn't find myself jumping up and down and raging at the end of the day even though we were I similar situations.
I thought very strongly that odd was scum but spent the end of the day looking for *reasons* that others were not voting him (and voting vettrock). With Taly all you did was shout down the lynch saying he was obvscum and telling people to regret it. And then came in the next day saying your entire argument was trivial? I didn't understand it and maybe you could reflect on your own play rather than trying to compare my play with your own and say they were the same.

You didn't play badly, at all. I just felt like you weren't explaining things well in the end, and I mean I spent probably three or four solid hours trying to understand two simple points on Day 3: why you were townreading Dave, and why you were scumreading ChriVi. I couldn't get an answer after that amount of time and so I figured you were going to continue with this and I had no problem voting you when several others were too.

I mean it's realistically smoke you telling me that "my strategy" didn't work when you've just killed yourself denying town any info beyond Day 7 of a 21 Day week. Who do you figure would have hammered so early in the day, if not you yourself? ploben maybe? or would he have WK'd you? NOBODY KNOWS BECAUSE YOU SELF HAMMERED.

Go read my previous games. I've done the tunnelling bullshit before and am wary enough of it myself that I can pull myself up in time to assess the situation. What I can't account for is suicide.

[Netherspite]

1. It was at like ~5-6 days until deadline when I hammered.
2. Townies clearly stated intention to hammer.
3.

Ploben

clearly stated that he is against my lynch.
4. There was NO case on me at all.
Combining all of this I'd say your vote on me was NOT justified.
And town actually HAD all the information.

[talah]

You've just stated 4 points which had nothing to do with my vote and said therefore my vote was not justified.

I was happy to see you lynched - at that stage - because you weren't explaining why you were scumreading or townreading players well. I literally just said that. I also thought there was a decent chance your strong push on Taly away from Kaboose was scum motivated. You came in at the start of the day all fatalistic anyway and if you'd posted the readslist right before your self hammer at that point instead of when you did maybe things would have turned out differently. If you think self hammering is fine in the face of everyone telling you not to do it as town then I'm not changing you mind.

Town didn't have all of the information. You self hammered denying information. The only information that gave was that you were town and angry.

Anyway GG there was a reason that I stepped away from this game for over a year. I get so frustrated as town, most of the time by town.

[Netherspite]

I did my best to explain why I was scumreading or townreading people.
You just did not like my explanation and somehow it lead you to the conclusion that I'm scum. (that's what you should not do imo)

As of me being angry, I had a reason to be angry.

[oddmusic]

Hey guys, sorry I flaked out on this game. I was…not in a good place for a few weeks.

This was actually a really fun game most of the way through, so thanks all for that.

And ploben was scum? Really? Well played man, well played.

[ploben]

Don't underestimate town's ability to eat itself alive.

[talah]

Well that's a good and glib *theory* ploben but in practice you've been wrecked in both of the games I've seen you in ^-^

[ploben]

To be fair talah I think I could have made it to the end in this game. I think I did fairly well in our newbie game, got the cop N1. I did have a normal game where mafia got lynched 3 days in a row.

This finish was the result of an unlucky/lucky shot in the night, other than that town was hungry for town blood.

[talah]

Mmmm hungry for town blood is a bit subjective though depending on who you leave to make decisions.

[Honey bee]

Do we get to see the scum and dead pts?

[talah]

^

[ploben]

I'm fine with it Storyteller.