Open 621 (C9++): The ZAR SHOW S1 Holiday Special - OVER!

[RadiantCowbells]

I am town.
If you're town and you can't communicate on my wavelength and I get lynched I'm probably the one who gets bitched out for it but you still lose as well.
I feel like you're talking at me and not talking to me.

[Kmd4390]

No, I'm stuck because the way you're trying to engage me in the game is through walls of text referencing 50 pages of content that I haven't all read.

Once you've read it, that's the best thing you can do.

Talk to me about what's happened since I replaced in and I have a full understanding of and you can get something useful out of me.

What has happened since you've replaced in is Anen and I have been sorting through stuff you haven't read yet. How's that useful regarding you right now?

You're asking me to go post by post on both of your ISOs?

No. But I'm sure you have opinions on some of what you've read. Even if it's not conclusive I'd like to discuss it and know exactly what you're thinking. It's easier to read you that way and if you're town that's the way you'll convince me of that and sway my vote.

I am town.If you're town and you can't communicate on my wavelength and I get lynched I'm probably the one who gets bitched out for it but you still lose as well.I feel like you're talking at me and not talking to me.

Nah. This feels very AtE and I should probably ignore it but if you're town and get lynched, Anen just played better than the town and deserves the win. I won't be playing the blame game in that case.

[RadiantCowbells]

You're not talking to me.
You're making a show for Adenine.

[RadiantCowbells]

At least, that's what it feels like to me.

Once you've read it, that's the best thing you can do.

No effort to get through to me. Just bitching at me for failing to have complete mastery of 53 pages of content I wasn't in game for.

What has happened since you've replaced in is Anen and I have been sorting through stuff you haven't read yet. How's that useful regarding you right now?

This is a rhetorical question. I don't feel like you're trying to sort me here.

No. But I'm sure you have opinions on some of what you've read. Even if it's not conclusive I'd like to discuss it and know exactly what you're thinking. It's easier to read you that way and if you're town that's the way you'll convince me of that and sway my vote.

This is okay actually.
But still feels somewhat generic and doesn't change the overbearing feel of the post.

Nah. This feels very AtE and I should probably ignore it but if you're town and get lynched, Anen just played better than the town and deserves the win. I won't be playing the blame game in that case.

This is just so scummy.

First there's the discrediting of AtE.
I am trying to get through to you. You are making it incredibly difficult for me to do so and I get the impression that you're just trying to set me up for a vote.
Why should you ignore it, regardless of my alignment?

Anen just played better than the town and deserves the win. I won't be playing the blame game in that case.

Nuh-uh. This is really bad.
You talked like you were mad at me for low effort before. I can't imagine someone talking the way you are not being open about the fact that they'd be pissed at me for not engaging them in the way they intend to be engaged, as stupid as you expecting me to play in that manner would be.

Anyway, I'm probably voting you here.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like the difference between you and Adenine right now is that you're trying to imply that it's scummy that I don't have a full understanding of all the material in this game and that he's annoyed and/or frustrated by it but is trying to sort me based on what he's able to.

If this is just going to continue then if we're both town there's no way we're winning together.

[RadiantCowbells]

And yeah, sure, I'm not making wallposts calling either of you scum.
Adenine would not townread me for that and neither should you; I can pick any player in this game and make them seem scummy as shit.
There's a reason I was able to get a cop inno lynched last year in LyLo and it's not because I have trouble pushing on people or finding reasons to call them scummy.
What I can't do is find much traction here, and that's not a scumtell by any means and you shouldn't be treating it like one.

I am trying to sort you. If you're town, make the same effort with me.

[RadiantCowbells]

I can believe that town-RC would post this. But I know scum-RC would definitely post something like that.
Also, you didn't mention the fact that it's a 3-player-LyLo with an SK in, which is, I think, very different from a 3-player-LyLo with a group scum.
Plus, is there a reason for not asking any or both of us to summarize everything happened so far?

I don't feel like summaries of a game ever quite do them justice.
If you are willing to go ahead and try it might be helpful though.

[Zar]

Day 4, Votecount 6

Not Voting (3):

Aneninen, RadiantCowbells, Kmd4390

With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch or to no lynch.

Deadline

: Sunday February 07, 2016 4:30 PM  New York Time. (GMT-5)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2016-02-07 17:30:00)

[Aneninen]

Sorry, I'll post later; this evening or tomorrow. I've run out of time.

[Kmd4390]

You're not talking to me.
You're making a show for Adenine.

Actually, I'm responding to your posts. That's all. When you sit there going "I'm stuck, what do I do", naturally I'm going to reply "read the game then talk to us". If I vote you, I'd rather Anen consider Rofl's play than yours. There's just more information there. Obviously your play factors in, but not nearly as much as Rofl's.

No effort to get through to me. Just bitching at me for failing to have complete mastery of 53 pages of content I wasn't in game for.

Again, just responding. There's still time.

This is just so scummy.First there's the discrediting of AtE.I am trying to get through to you. You are making it incredibly difficult for me to do so and I get the impression that you're just trying to set me up for a vote.Why should you ignore it, regardless of my alignment?

Well, go back and read it. Even if you didn't mean for it to come off that way, tell me it doesn't sound AtE. And of course it's difficult. You are in a spot where the only way to contribute in a meaningful way is to do a shit ton of reading first. It's what you signed up for when you replaced into a game with approximately 50 pages. You had to know it's not easy, but I'd assume it's what you were looking for when you told Zar you'd do it.

Nuh-uh. This is really bad.You talked like you were mad at me for low effort before. I can't imagine someone talking the way you are not being open about the fact that they'd be pissed at me for not engaging them in the way they intend to be engaged, as stupid as you expecting me to play in that manner would be.

If you think I'm saying we should hand the game to AnenSK, you're just taking my comments out of context. All I'm saying is that if it's him and we don't catch him, then well played on his part.

Like the difference between you and Adenine right now is that you're trying to imply that it's scummy that I don't have a full understanding of all the material in this game and that he's annoyed and/or frustrated by it but is trying to sort me based on what he's able to.

I haven't once said you are scum for not reading yet. All I've said is that I'm looking forward to you catching up and giving input so we can start a meaningful process and talk about this game. If you're ready to vote though, I take it you aren't interested in doing that?

If this is just going to continue then if we're both town there's no way we're winning together.

Meh. You've got a couple days without me. I go back to work in a few hours. I'll get there a little after 2pm and stay until 7am and then the same thing tomorrow. Then sleep after and probably won't get to do much on the forums until late Thursday night after my wife leaves for work.

What I can't do is find much traction here, and that's not a scumtell by any means and you shouldn't be treating it like one.

I agree that that's a point in your favor if it's true. But you're saying this 11 minutes after implying you're ready to vote so Iunno man.

I am trying to sort you. If you're town, make the same effort with me.

Of course. If I was sure of anything, I'd have voted already.

[Aneninen]

Some time, some catch-up.

Not much to say to those RC quotes, no. I don't think I've pushed any garbage obviously and if I was looking for a "pushover", I wouldn't be sitting here wishing we still had Rofl who is anything but.

Actually Rofl's Day3 was quite different from his Day2 and his very little content on Day4 was different from both of those. Although the latest one might have IRL reasons, too.

Why don't you think either of us will vote you?

I said "most probably", not "I'm sure".
Both of you said that you're leaning to vote each other.
From my point of view, one of you thinks the other one is the SK but is afraid to vote because if I were the SK, I would quickhammer. The other one is the SK, who doesn't want to vote because at that point I'd be cleared and the whole dilemma would be over. Even I know this is speculative, though.
Also, I offered my LyLo-self-meta, but there was no reaction, not even a "self-meta is pigeon poop" one. That suggested me that noone really cared.

Some relevant bits of your answer, Kmd.

2. Yep. In the early game I tend to like people who look at the same things I do. This would be true if I was SK as well though.
7. I had a hard time deciding on Yos vs BBT because they are both very good players. I had a slight lean towards Yos town and BBT scum for most of it, but always suspected people more than BBT.
8. If I'm "missing" it's usually because I'm at work. I do 16 hour days. Usually two or three in a row. And no internet at work. When I'm home in between I'm sleeping if I can.
9. There's different context. I don't go out of my way looking for SKs on Day 1 because it's damn near impossible to do. Always' "slip" wasn't anything, but the point was he could have been SK just as easily as town even if people did think it meant something. I know Always flipped town, but the whole townslip business was BS and it came from a player I was scumreading so of course I did everything I could to show why it's BS. Obviously, we know everything I could do wasn't enough but it's all for the best anyway considering he was town.
10. *shrug*. Maybe I'd have killed Always as SK, maybe not. Hard to say. In my last SK game I killed players who fit three criteria: 1. Could be scum, 2. Could vote me at some point, 3. Probably won't be lynched. I don't remember if Always suspected me (actually I think he did at some point) but he definitely fit the other two so I can't really disagree if you think I would have killed him.
11. I don't think my tex case was weak. It was strong enough to get five town votes.
14. If I was "moving with the crowd", would I have started the tex wagon or just jumped on BBT. Think about it.
18. Huh? I had few mentions of Kop and ABR because the reads were weak (not confident) like I said. Not sure what the issue is here.
20. I wanted scum to kill Lucky so we didn't have to sort whether he was vig or SK. Either one less mislynch or a dead SK. Win win. That would be the worst kill ever for a SK to make because he's the one distraction protecting them as a claimed vig.
Day 2: Sure, if I was SK, Lowell may have been someone I'd kill. Not Lucky though.
21. Neither. I legitimately felt insulted that Rofl thought I'd let him live if I was scum considering the way he was coming after me. It's easier to say "it's scum setting me up" or "stop with the WIFOM" than to argue with someone who is going to scum read you no matter what you say. That is a kill that would have needed to happen if I was SK or scum.
27: meh. I felt like we were screwed because everyone thought I was mafia so if shadow flipped town or SK, the game ends in a town loss just because everyone is so sure I'm mafia. It was basically me thinking out loud after I played out the scenarios and shadow somehow being mafia was our only hope. I think I mentioned this before, but when it actually happened all I could do was laugh.
30. Not sure why it feels fake to you so not sure what to say.

2. Could go either way then.
7. May believe that.
8. Yes, I know the situation. So, it's null.
9. We're never going to agree about that slip.
10. Self-meta and speaking against yourself more or less. I don't know what to think. Sometimes I'm speaking against myself regardless of my alignment.
11. Actually, yes. Although that doesn't help us now then. Rofl was away too.
14. That's true. Makes no sense as SK.
18. My issue is that you said:

"Looking at dead players, I was right about ABR, but not confident in that. I was right about Kop, but again not very confident."

– even with the "not confident" part, it's a kind of "changing the past". You hardly posted about them!
20. Okay.
21. May or may not be so.
27. and 30. And these still feel fake.

TL;DR: Some points are answered, some not. In general, I liked the post.

I don't have the energy to fight both of you right now.

Both of us?
I only need to fight one of you...

I don't have the energy to fight both of you right now.

Why the fuck even replace in with that attitude?

These posts don't help.

Need to go now; I haven't read the rest of the posts yet so this one is NOT a conclusion.

[RadiantCowbells]

Both of us?
I only need to fight one of you...

No, you need to fight neither of us because your slot is generally townread and you will most likely attain hammer by attrition either way.

I have to try to fight both of you because my slot is generally scumread and if I don't make something happen I lose whichever one of you is scum.

[Aneninen]

I didn't realize that you two were both pretty much already ready to lynch my slot.

There's not much I can say or do in a situation like that.

I think I've posted this before but here it comes again.
I want to get every possible information before I vote, and this includes your posts too. If we had a Mafia alive I could use much more things, eg. associative tells. Now, everything I have are the ISOs and this LyLo. Besides, I've never LyLo-ed against an SK before this game.

Well dude I'm fucking not Roflcopter.
I can't not distance myself from him because I'm not the same person, I don't know his motivations for doing what he did.
If you point out anything that you don't see any town motivation for I can probably try to clear it up; but it's the same as asking me to look for town motivation in any of the flipped town players because it didn't come from me. It's not really going to get us anywhere man.

Wrong.
Or at least, I usually search for town and scum motivation in others' posts. If it's possible to do so in case of another player, it's possible in case of a predecessor too.

Doesn't help that I replaced into a shitty position and am probably going to be blamed if town loses this, which seems pretty fucking likely at the moment.
I don't have the answers that you're looking for right now Adenine.

Where should I search for answers then? Reading the ISO of both of you again? Maybe I'll do so if I have time. But even if I do so, you'll only tell me that you're not Rofl.

If neither of you have realized that the other is scum, why are you expecting me to have it instantly?

Whut?

No, I'm stuck because the way you're trying to engage me in the game is through walls of text referencing 50 pages of content that I haven't all read.

No, I'm talking to you. Not to Rofl.

I am town.If you're town and you can't communicate on my wavelength and I get lynched I'm probably the one who gets bitched out for it but you still lose as well.I feel like you're talking at me and not talking to me.

Nah. This feels very AtE and I should probably ignore it but if you're town and get lynched, Anen just played better than the town and deserves the win. I won't be playing the blame game in that case.

Eigh.
I just can't decide which one disliked I more, the post or the answer.
RC, I'm trying hard to talk TO you.
Kmd, that logic is simply bad if you're town.

You're not talking to me.
You're making a show for Adenine.

Wait-oh.
At that time I wasn't even around. If you posted that, it means... you knew well that I'd read everything thoroughly. As if you knew that I couldn't be the SK.

Like the difference between you and Adenine right now is that you're trying to imply that it's scummy that I don't have a full understanding of all the material in this game and that he's annoyed and/or frustrated by it but is trying to sort me based on what he's able to.

This is actually true...

If this is just going to continue then if we're both town there's no way we're winning together.

And this is just as bad as the thing I quoted from Kmd above, for the same reasons.

I don't feel like summaries of a game ever quite do them justice. If you are willing to go ahead and try it might be helpful though.

Do you still need that? Or, which is faster, I can link some of the relevant posts. As a matter of fact, I'd summarized plenty of things for myself before you arrived.

Well, go back and read it. Even if you didn't mean for it to come off that way, tell me it doesn't sound AtE. And of course it's difficult. You are in a spot where the only way to contribute in a meaningful way is to do a shit ton of reading first. It's what you signed up for when you replaced into a game with approximately 50 pages. You had to know it's not easy, but I'd assume it's what you were looking for when you told Zar you'd do it.

Actually Zar posted this in the Replacement Thread:

Day4, 51 pages

. This told nothing about the game state nor the Setup, etc.
RC, had you read anything out of the game before replacing in?

[RadiantCowbells]

Wait-oh.
At that time I wasn't even around. If you posted that, it means... you knew well that I'd read everything thoroughly. As if you knew that I couldn't be the SK.

I did state around the same time that I was close to ready to vote KMD, yes?
That should make it pretty clear where I'm at.

And this is just as bad as the thing I quoted from Kmd above, for the same reasons.

I am making no secret of the fact that I think that you're town and that KMD is scum.

Actually Zar posted this in the Replacement Thread: Day4, 51 pages. This told nothing about the game state nor the Setup, etc.
RC, had you read anything out of the game before replacing in?

I read the first page and saw that the game was in LyLo, and checked to see the latest VC and found that there were no votes down.


Anyway, I feel like Adenine's last was incredibly self serving because of how it was designed to coax out claimed townreads of him but I still have more reasons to scumread kmd and further feel like if KMD is town then we won't get anywhere when he's trying to get me to argue Roflcopter's case which is no more my own material than it is anyone else's here.

I'll give KMD one more post before I vote.

[Aneninen]

Wait-oh.
At that time I wasn't even around. If you posted that, it means... you knew well that I'd read everything thoroughly. As if you knew that I couldn't be the SK.

I did state around the same time that I was close to ready to vote KMD, yes?
That should make it pretty clear where I'm at.

Okay. I see your point.
I've felt that as town before, although I've already posted things like that as scum, too. So, that's null in itself.

Anyway, I feel like Adenine's last was incredibly self serving because of how it was designed to coax out claimed townreads of him

I don't really get this. Especially together with the other one I quoted here.
All I want to do is to see the mindset behind both of your posts.

[Zar]

Day 4, Votecount 7

Not Voting (3):

Aneninen, RadiantCowbells, Kmd4390

With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch or to no lynch.

Deadline

: Sunday February 07, 2016 4:30 PM  New York Time. (GMT-5)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2016-02-07 17:30:00)

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright, win is yours if you are scum Adenine.

VOTE: Kmd4390

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll save the effort of making my final case for why I (and not Roflcopter, who is not me) am town until I see whether there's a quickhammer or not.

If there is, sorry but you were advocating my lynch anyway so don't just blame me.

[Aneninen]

VOTE: Kmd4390

I'm sorry, guys. Our WinCon haven't matched.

Don't blame yourself, RC!

[Zar]

"Well, audience and viewers out there, it looks like we have reached consensus in the special holiday edition of THE ZAR SHOW for the Lake Village council! After much debate between the remaining members of the panelists, it's been determined that, now that the members of the mafia had been eradicated from the council, the one man operation that remained in place had to be run by Kmd4390. Now, what we need to know is if the decision of removing Kmd4390 from from the council is the right choice for the Laker Villagers, or if they were played like a fiddle and manipulated to give away their powers to a totalitarian. Can the three of you weigh in on the positive or negative outcome of this decision? Kmd, as the accused, I would like to hear your last words first.

KMD4390: "It's incredible how blatantly it is that I've been framed. It is frustrating to know that we will now live under oppression."

"RadiantCowbells, do you have any thoughts on the matter?"

RADIANTCOWBELLS: "I don't know, it's all very confusing. I think KMD is lying, but Adenine could be lying too, all I know is I'm innocent and that matters. But I hope it's not Adenine, he can be a cruel ruler!"

ANENINEN: Well, I appreciate the vote of confidence, RadiantCowbells. As supreme ruler of Lake Village, my first decree will be to punish you for not saying my name right... *mwahahahaha*

*Crowd Ooohs in displease and shock, and starts booing*

ANENINEN:YES, It is me. I have no fear anymore. I am commander of this town, and soon you should all kneel to me! AHAHAHAHAHAHA!

AUDIENCE IN SILENCE, IN ATTENTION*

*Zar then turns back to the camera, and addresses the public, somberly.*

"Decisions are always hard. The fate of the Lake Village has once again been sealed today. I must now proceed to hand in the town keys to the New Order overlord, Anenien. As last words to all of you please remain safe. And please, for your own sake, don't mispell his name."

*Zar focuses on the camera, which is starting to pan out as Aneninen starts maniacally beating RadiantCowbells into submission.*

THIS ZAR SHOW has been a presentation of Central Park, an open
production of mafiascum.net under the authority of the one and only Great LlamaFluff-ListMod.

Kmd4390,

Vanilla Townie

, taken out by security (lynched) on Day Four!

A win condition has been achieved!

RadiantCowbells,

Vanilla Townie

, and has been end-gamed.

Aneninen,

One Shot Bulletproof Serial Killer

, survived to endgame and won!

Congratulations SK!

[Zar]

N1 Actions

ABR shoots Aneninen, Successful, Aneninen loses BP Vest.
Aneninen shoots Kop, Successful.
Lucky2u shoots AlwaysInnocent, Successful.
BlueBloodedToffee roleblocks AlwaysInnocent, Successful
Kop shoots ABR, Successful.

N2 Actions

Aneninen shoots Yosarian2, Successful.
Lucky2u shoots Lowell, Successful.
shaddowez shoots Lucky2u, Successful.


N3 Actions

Aneninen shoots acryon, Successful.

[Zar]

DEAD PT LINK

[Zar]

Just for reference in case you ever need this info:


1. Town Vig
2. Town Vig
3. VT
4. VT
5. VT
6. VT
7. VT
8. VT
9. VT
10. Mafia Roleblocker
11. Mafia Goon
12. Mafia Goon
13. Serial Killer

There were 13 items in your list. Here they are in random order:

7. Albert B. Rampage
2. Lucky2u
5. Lowell
10. AlwaysInnocent
3. acryon
12. roflcopter
6. texcat
13. kmd4390
9. Yosarian2
8. BlueBloodedToffee
1. shaddowez
4. Kop
11. Aneninen
Timestamp: 2015-12-21 04:22:20 UTC, IP: 148.101.41.163

This Leads to:

Albert B. Rampage - Town Vigilante
Lucky2u - Town Vigilante
Lowell - VT
AlwaysInnocent - VT
acryon - VT
roflcopter - VT
texcat - VT
kmd4390 - VT
Yosarian2 - VT
BlueBloodedToffee - Mafia Roleblocker
shaddowez - Mafia Goon
Kop - Mafia Goon
Aneninen - Serial Killer

[RadiantCowbells]

*shrug*

From a position of being confirmed town I want to reiterate the fact that I am not Roflcopter.
Expecting me to defend his actions is senseless and made me think you were just trying to push me as an easy lynch based on my predecessor's actions.

[Zar]

Here are my dice rolls. I'll just follow up in the next PM.

1)

Original Roll String: 1d100 (STATIC)

1 100-Sided Dice: (82) = 82

V

2)

Original Roll String: 1d100 (STATIC)

1 100-Sided Dice: (77) = 77

V

3)

Original Roll String: 1d100 (STATIC)

1 100-Sided Dice: (76) = 76

V

4)

Original Roll String: 1d100 (STATIC)

1 100-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

T

5)

Original Roll String: 1d100 (STATIC)

1 100-Sided Dice: (83) = 83

V

6)

Original Roll String: 1d100 (STATIC)

1 100-Sided Dice: (36) = 36

T

7)

Original Roll String: 1d100 (STATIC)

1 100-Sided Dice: (21) = 21

T

So I have VVVTVTT, which is VVVV TTT

So my setup would be:

2 Vigilantes
7 Vanilla Townies

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Serial Killer

Correct?

It is the choice of the SK if they are 1-Shot BP or Investigation immune (they choose pre-game). Granted BP is theoretically the correct choice all of the time, particularly in this game, people choose the weaker choice all the time.

Everything else is correct.