Open 621 (C9++): The ZAR SHOW S1 Holiday Special - OVER!

[OceanWind]

I was watching this game very intently from the beginning and considered replacing in during LYLO but didn't because I just hate serial killers in general and didn't really trust there to be any solid scumhunting method that would have caught the right guy so it would have been the luck of the draw. Although, if I had replaced in, I would have actually read the game. I don't see much purpose into replacing into LYLO if you don't want to read.

When RadiantCowbells replaced in and started posting, to me he was obvtown in every way. It would have been a tossup between the other two. Everything he did oozed town and I was surprised the other two didn't instantly back off. I suppose the reason town lost was two-fold: a. As obvious town as RC was to me, for some reason, Kmd wasn't able to recognize it. b. RC not reading the thread meant that he wasn't going to make the right choice despite being very town. I don't know if there was any way at all to tell that Anen was the serial killer though. (I don't buy Albert Rampage's claims of catching him D1. Anen was uninformed and didn't know who the mafia were so that's co-incidence.)

[Albert B. Rampage]

It's not coincidence.

[OceanWind]

It's not coincidence.

It is. Time and again, I've seen people view their play in the game through rose-tinted glasses exaggerating the places where they were right and downplaying places where they were wrong. I'd have given you the benefit of the doubt if Aneninen was mafia. Third parties normally play like town and hunt mafia at least during the early stages of the game like D1. So, no I don't buy it. Any "scummy" things you saw from Aneninen were most likely playstyle tells. Unless you are able to articulate precisely what you thought was scummy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

To the uninitiated eye.

[OceanWind]

Now you are just bullshitting. So, go on then. Precisely, what did Anen do that you perceived as scummy?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Read more of my games kid.

[OceanWind]

I've read plenty of your games Mafiaception being the latest one and I haven't been impressed.

But that's not the point. The point I was making was that serial killers are just a bad role in general and town doesn't really have any means to catch them (your claims being co-incidental). But if you want to insist that you "caught" Anen, I challenge you to go ahead and point out his scummy posts.

I ISO'd you. You only referred to Anen 5 times and all of those times you were talking about somebody else or quoting a votecount. You never directly called Anen scum at any point.

[OceanWind]

To illustrate, the following are the only times the word "Anen" occurs in your ISO. So, if you want to claim you "caught" him, try again. But I figured you were bullshitting right from the beginning.

? for the underlined part

I said "BBT stop this madness" and he ignored. If town he probably would have given consideration.

Why should BBT listen to you?

We have an affinity.

AlwaysInnocent (4): Lucky2u, Aneninen, roflcopter, Lowell

I'm pretty fucking sure there are two scum voting for AI right now.

If we really fail to lynch BBT for some reason I'd accept a lynch on someone in the pool of (shaddowz, lucky,

lowell

, texcat, kop). Again, weaker town reads then everyone else. Anen is also acting a little weird but i don't know if i see him acting like this as scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

I was watching this game very intently from the beginning and considered replacing in during LYLO but didn't because I just hate serial killers in general and didn't really trust there to be any solid scumhunting method that would have caught the right guy so it would have been the luck of the draw. Although, if I had replaced in, I would have actually read the game. I don't see much purpose into replacing into LYLO if you don't want to read.

When RadiantCowbells replaced in and started posting, to me he was obvtown in every way. It would have been a tossup between the other two. Everything he did oozed town and I was surprised the other two didn't instantly back off. I suppose the reason town lost was two-fold: a. As obvious town as RC was to me, for some reason, Kmd wasn't able to recognize it. b. RC not reading the thread meant that he wasn't going to make the right choice despite being very town. I don't know if there was any way at all to tell that Anen was the serial killer though. (I don't buy Albert Rampage's claims of catching him D1. Anen was uninformed and didn't know who the mafia were so that's co-incidence.)

I did read the thread, all 53 pages. I just can't argue about every single thing that happened.

[RadiantCowbells]

In the end if mostly came down to the fact that KMD didn't really seem interested in trying to open a dialogue with me and was just chastising me for not understanding the previous 50 pages well enough to engage in wall text repartee whereas Adenine was at least willing to entertain discussion of stuff that happened recently, even if it was all in the context of 'HEY IM OBVTOWN YOU SHOULD GIVE ME HAMMER NOW'.

I (wrongfully) came to the conclusion that Kmd felt threatened by my replace in and didn't want to engage me and just wanted to paint my 'unwillingness to read' in a bad light to get Adenine to lynch me.

[Kmd4390]

RC, I was waiting for you, not going against you. I wanted your thoughts. You never shared them. You just read the game (apparently. This is news to me) and voted. You keep saying I should have engaged you. Yeah? About what? You didn't give reasoning why I was scum. You didn't give reasoning why Anen was town. Obviously, as you keep saying and somehow thinking I disagree, there's nothing you can say about Rofl's play. Had you told us why you came to your decision based on what was in the thread, maybe we could have talked a bit more.

That being said, Anen played a great game and absolutely deserves the win and I don't think there's much chance we would have BOTH lynched him over each other regardless of what we did. My issue was that both slots looked town. The way Anen presented the whole "I thought I could confirm myself but never mindit's pigeon poop" was great and it's probably the one big thing that stopped me from voting him every time I wanted to.

[AlwaysInnocent]

RC, I don't blame you. It is hard to catch up like that when we're in LYLO.

I do blame roflcopter. *shakes fist*

[RadiantCowbells]

fwiw when I originally talked about voting my scumread to clear my thoughts I was planning on voting Adenine.

I switched tack after how much I hated 1326 and how you kept asking me to give thoughts on stuff that happened 50 pages ago instead of what was happening then.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not claiming to be blameless but what you were doing will never work with me in a LyLo situation unless I'm already sure who I want to vote, in which case it won't matter much anyway.

[RadiantCowbells]

And I promise you, if I were scum I'd have had no issues creating a 20 page wall of text of why Adenine was a gigantic scumfuck who needed a rope around his scumball neck.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also I really didn't like how you discredited my AtE.
But yeah, gg.

[Aneninen]

Oceanwind: ABR doesn't seem to talk about it for some reason. (Although whatever he saw it must have happened very early. Not talking about it ingame made sense knowing he was a Vig.)

RC: You were in a terrible situation and obviously, I didn't help you at all. Basically, the same goes for Kmd too.

AI: Rofl shouldn't be blamed, too. We don't know what happened to him IRL.

________

Also, are there opinions about my thoughts, as for the SK-Choice?

[OceanWind]

Oceanwind: ABR doesn't seem to talk about it for some reason.

He doesn't want to talk about it because it is bs. You didn't know who the mafia were on D1. It was only after N1 that you had more info on who likely kill targets were than the rest of the town did.

Theoretically, catching a serial killer even later in the game is often a matter of luck. On D1, it's next to impossible.

[Aneninen]

He tried to Nightkill me for some reason.

[OceanWind]

Right. And I bet he probably thought you were partnered with BBT and found you scummier or something of that sort and came back in endgame to take "credit" for being "right."

I mean, my argument is that you can't legitimately catch a serial killer on D1 making them a bad role in general. Even later on, it is very difficult. If ABR disagrees with me, he's welcome to prove it by explaining his reasons.

[RadiantCowbells]

You can if you look for non-associative tells.

[OceanWind]

I bumped this thread by accident I think. That was posted two months ago.

But to respond to that - I think you can sometimes catch serial killers if they try too hard to not get lynched or play just to survive but it's a long shot. The majority of serial killers play like they are town so are indistinguishable from town. Mafia is a game of catching the informed minority and if the serial killer isn't "informed" in any way, what's the difference between them and the town? The entire point of the game is that mafia already know the answer as to who they are but have to pretend like they don't and are figuring it out. Town doesn't. The serial killer cannot play like mafia because they don't know who the mafia are. So, unless you are talking about the rare, rare exception where the serial killer intentionally posts reads contrary to their actual reads and fabricates analysis for the heck of it - and even if they did, why would they do it as early as D1? - catching them is a matter of luck.

[LlamaFluff]

what now?