Open 645: C9++ - Game Over

[davesaz]

Of the claimed VT's I've settled on Postie, RC, LQ, Ranger from most scummy to least.

And nobody comments on it.

VOTE: Postie

We would have had Postie a day earlier if RC had stayed on her. I misinterpreted his flipflopping as scum and didn't want a no-lynch with so many unknown. It would have been autowin at that point, as town could then afford to pick wrong on the doc claims and still lynch the other one.

YOU WERENT EVEN FUCKING PUSHING POSTIE SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU WERE DEFENDING HER TOO.

I was voting Postie and had her as top scumread, after posting analysis showing that slot as being aligned with Umlaut.
If someone tells you that your behavior is messing with their ability to read the game, you should change the behavior not double down on it.

[RadiantCowbells]

You voted me.

[mhsmith0]

@rc: my advice, and feel free to take it or leave it, is to take time off, then if/when you come back, play games mainly with a core of people you know you like playing with. Or maybe even just flat-out invitationals only. You're an interesting player to watch, and I've enjoyed playing with you the couple times we've met up, so I hope that you will come back at some point. Either way, best of luck.

[LicketyQuickety]

I still don't think we should have mass claimed while I was alive.

[RadiantCowbells]

Massclaim got us what should have been autowin had the general town play not been so bad.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like here's the thing. I called for the massclaim and I was like dead on nearly 100% this game and you're STILL questioning my decision to massclaim.

it was the right decision, period.

[LicketyQuickety]

Like here's the thing. I called for the massclaim and I was like dead on nearly 100% this game and you're STILL questioning my decision to massclaim.

it was the right decision, period.

Retrospect is not a reason for it being optimal. That's so bad. SO BAD!

[RadiantCowbells]

I'ts not optimal. It was already the right decision at the time. I don't feel like I should need to explain it, I feel like you should trust me: however, I will explain the math behind why it was the correct decision at the time on the condition that you never question me saying something was the right decision again.

[davesaz]

Massclaim was the right thing.

You

asking for it was the wrong thing.

When you have a reputation for being manipulative, don't be manipulative as town!

It doesn't matter if you were right.

Your behavior was what lost the game.

[Titus]

Massclaim is optimal in this setup if

1) VTs die in D1 and D2
2) Massclaim follows PR or VT popcorn method.

[RadiantCowbells]

Massclaim was the right thing.

You

asking for it was the wrong thing.

When you have a reputation for being manipulative, don't be manipulative as town!

It doesn't matter if you were right.

Your behavior was what lost the game.

Oh my fucking god WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO NOT TRY TO PUSH MY READS AT ALL?

I DO THINGS AS SCUM BECAUSE I DO THEM AS TOWN. WHICH WINCON DO YOU NOT WANT ME TO PLAY TOWARDS?

[Titus]

Massclaim was the right thing.

You

asking for it was the wrong thing.

When you have a reputation for being manipulative, don't be manipulative as town!

It doesn't matter if you were right.

Your behavior was what lost the game.

Disagree here.

Everyone is manipulative. You cannot ask for RC to just shut that off.


His hammer was badbut you cannot ask him to stop manipulating.

[Transcend]

Fun game to watch, proud of myself for having good reads early on for Smithereens, Loopdan and Umlaut. Unfortunately, this game escalated extremely quickly to a point where I wasn't capable of keeping up with it. GJ to Bins for the W I had you as town for most of the game until the last couple of days when RC obvtowned. Thanks to N_M for hosting and sorry for subbing out. Thank you Titus for taking over me!

[Titus]

No problem. Sorry for getting us murdered.

[LicketyQuickety]

Massclaim is optimal in this setup if

1) VTs die in D1 and D2
2) Massclaim follows PR or VT popcorn method.

I was under the assumption you needed a PR or two to flip so you could solve the setup. I haven't checked any kind of EV play so I don't know anything about that stuff.

[Titus]

@LQ Not so much.

If you force the PR or VT mass claim, scum don't know which letters to claim. Then, there's the claiming of specific PRs which only happens after the PR/VT part. Eventually, the bodies hit the floor and scum narrative has to match that. No matter what kill scum make, they are wore off.

[LicketyQuickety]

@LQ Not so much.

If you force the PR or VT mass claim, scum don't know which letters to claim. Then, there's the claiming of specific PRs which only happens after the PR/VT part. Eventually, the bodies hit the floor and scum narrative has to match that. No matter what kill scum make, they are wore off.

K, that makes sense. basically trapping the scum to make bad claims for the future. Honestly, I get so lost on that stuff. I just try to find Scum.

[davesaz]

Massclaim was the right thing.

You

asking for it was the wrong thing.

When you have a reputation for being manipulative, don't be manipulative as town!

It doesn't matter if you were right.

Your behavior was what lost the game.

Disagree here.

Everyone is manipulative. You cannot ask for RC to just shut that off.


His hammer was badbut you cannot ask him to stop manipulating.

I wanted Postie the day before and had RC as lock town, until the theater got to the point that it was possible it was any 2 of RC/Bins/Postie.

And no, everyone is not manipulative. That's a misconception that gets me mislynched a lot. I'm never manipulative as town. Everything I say as town is 100% true, or at least I believe it to be true at the time. Most of the time the true thing I'm saying is that I don't know who the scum are. People on this site don't expect it, they expect town to make shit up and see what sticks.

[Titus]

@Davesaz, You can be manipulative without lying. Manipulation is just getting people to do what you want. I manipulate by telling all the options and selling mine.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah but if that's the case LQ, can you give someone who DOES do that stuff the benefit of the doubt, especially when you claim to townread them?

[LicketyQuickety]

Yeah but if that's the case LQ, can you give someone who DOES do that stuff the benefit of the doubt, especially when you claim to townread them?

Depends if they know what they are talking about
Depends if I have seen them do that previously and been right about it.

[LicketyQuickety]

I can see daves pov here. there is defenitely a line that can be crossed where you are so manipulative as Town that it hurts towns chances of winning. RC throwing the game is unacceptable and will prolly not be playing in any of my games.

[mhsmith0]

RC made a mistake. Mistakes happen. It's an unfortunate way for the game to end, that's all.

[LicketyQuickety]

RC made a mistake. Mistakes happen. It's an unfortunate way for the game to end, that's all.

Yeah, I can't say for certain that RC was throwing the game, I can't. But I don't get why its even coming up in discussion is all.

[Bins]

RC made a mistake. Mistakes happen. It's an unfortunate way for the game to end, that's all.

lol



Either way, if RC had stuck with his vote on me the game would of never ended.