Open 651: Stack the Deck (Game Over)


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Post Post #950 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:46 pm

Post by Lycanfire »

however if scum took joat instead of bp she probably would have said something dumb about joat instead of something clueless which would make me re-eval my read :angel:
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Post Post #951 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:48 pm

Post by kyndy101 »

Also I gotta say, this game was fun! Sorry I was lurking there for a while, school picked up fast :/ I probably won't enter another game until winter at this rate XD Thanks for dealing with me everyone! Reflecting on it, I don't understand why I took BP; at least town didn't suspect it tho, eh? XD also, the flavoring was epic ^_^ And I can't believe I wasn't lynches this game, but I'm so used to being suspected that I think I handled it ok-ish. I can't believe everyone was scum reading me but I had no votes on me for a majority of the game XD
"ARANEA: No! I will not "clam down." Clamming is not something you can do, unless you do it UP, or you are literally retrieving clams from a 8ed of soft oceanic soil"
"TEREZI: 1T 1S L1K3 TH3 L3G1SL4C3R4TORS H4NDBOOK S4YS
TEREZI: THOS3 WHO 4R3 CUT FROM TH3 S4M3 CLOTH
TEREZI: 4R3 F1T TO SW1NG FROM TH3 S4M3 ROP3!"
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Post Post #952 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:49 pm

Post by kyndy101 »

I'm also surprised I got a grand total of 1 prod this whole game! I was legit worried for my inactivity
"ARANEA: No! I will not "clam down." Clamming is not something you can do, unless you do it UP, or you are literally retrieving clams from a 8ed of soft oceanic soil"
"TEREZI: 1T 1S L1K3 TH3 L3G1SL4C3R4TORS H4NDBOOK S4YS
TEREZI: THOS3 WHO 4R3 CUT FROM TH3 S4M3 CLOTH
TEREZI: 4R3 F1T TO SW1NG FROM TH3 S4M3 ROP3!"
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Post Post #953 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:14 pm

Post by Sir Bastion »

So Bastions big post of thoughts, all in here is just my opinion (man) you can disagree all you want, i'll gladly discuss any disagreements or agreements or even general mocking, but I like to try and give thoughts at the end of games and really it was a good game and I enjoyed myself and I hope everyone else enjoyed themselves, but we can always improve.


kyndy signed off on the mafia thread so here it is: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=67762


So first things first

All scum powers were picked by Kraska77 who then dropped out of the game and yes they were the most useless choice of powers you can imagine. Role cop, bulletproof and turn the traitor into a goon.

and then they proceeded to drop out before the game started and then go and post a thread in the general mafia section sharing about how they feel bad when they play mafia, in particular when they play scum,

I am amazed that no one put out any suspicion on me simply for the replacement, even without the other thread, players replacing in pregame lends more to scum then town, at the very least its unlikely the person is VT.

Worse someone in this game was posting in the other thread where kraska77 shared their feelings and that person didnt put 2+2 together.


Secondly

Of the 4 hidden PRS the best hidden was actually the one that was forced to claim first, Vedith read like a open forward VT, its why early day 1 I called both him and Superbowl out as confident players, that screams VT to me.

Lycan was pegged as a pr almost straight away because his early posts felt very fake, almost scripted.

And Light breadcrumbed which was a mistake, scum wont ignore a breadcrumb as Vedith pointed out.

Highhopes only mistake was the hammer. I dont know why its not a pr-tell yet but hammering without a care in the world screams PR to me, I have always pushed to nightkilling players who hammer like that if we dont have a specific target and it has more often then not turned up as a PR.


So yes by the start of night 1 scum had pretty much worked out who was a pr and who was a VT.

as seen here:
The game to me stands as following:

NJAC - dead due to inaccuracy
kyndy101 - team win
Lycanfire - possible pr, weak townplay (bodyguard or roleblocker)
superbowl9 -possible vt. strong town
light_ganski *; -Tracker. will be stronger day 2
Vedith - Goon Cop, will be stronger day 2
Hebee Inc (beeboy + hebichan) **; -possible VT, not interested in game
HighHopes (Ranger + Killthestory) ***; -possible PR self destructive (bodyguard or vig)
Raskolnikov *; -team win
shaddowez *; -Innocent child. weak town
SoraAdvent - possible VT. average town
Sir Bastion - team win
though I was sure HH was going to be a vig.

As for players

NJAC: Eager, intuitive and clearly thinking, I didnt get why people went so hard on you for buddying in the early game, rereading your interactions you were clearly keeping track of some points that you came back to and prodded vedith and others on later in the day.

kyndy101: The god of coincidences, I was terrified someone was going to do a proper vote count analysis on day 3 because on both wagons you were L-1 and directly behind me, you're day 1 play was good enough and I'm sorry I bussed you quite a bit, the biggest issue I saw was you were very shallow on your input which made you very easy to bus and day 3 it was very clear you were active lurking because you never ended up getting prodded.

superbowl9: Oh I had to buddy you quick, I knew Vedith would get all prickly if I tried to be nice to him, but you my glorious soupbowl are a good townie to have in my corner...even if I am scum. solid reading except you had a big old blind spot where the genji/hebee slot sat and it blinded you so much. I think more then any other player you lost out the most from the day 2 fuck up, if day 2 had gone as normal and hebee had been lynched I think in day 3 you would have been a much stronger player. I think Raskol played that blind spot too well.

light_ganski *: Sorry man outside of the breadcrumb you didnt give much of a presence I thought, which is probably why you became lynch bait so easily, but on the brightside if you can avoid breadcrumbing you'd give a solid enough pr play if town would be discouraged from trying to lynch you on day 1.

Vedith: Bit of a rockstar poster. I think you still have the highest number of posts in the game despite dying day 2, solid confident town play, a lot of head butting but to me if you get two players aggressively headbutting odds are they are both town, in fact I've always found town vs town to be more aggressive and mean then town vs scum arguments. Such a simple mistake doomed you on day 2 and my heart bleeds. But lesson learnt. I am also glad and terrified that on day 1 I did poke at something that made you go check kyndy. Which was my big mistake as I didnt realize kyndy was the goon, I thought it was Raskol. So I did panic a small bit on night 1.


Genji Hebee Inc (beeboy + hebichan) **; I honestly never saw hebee in such a bad light as the rest of the game. Worse I took from it was a hydra who didnt want to play this game and not making much of an effort, best is if people read her posts in context and not as an ISO they actually make sense. They were a terrible scumhunting via hunting partners policy (lynching Njac because they thought sora was distancing from njac) but they made sense. Genji was an overall better player screwed over simply because nobody really wanted to listen, they were lynching him because they wanted to lynch Hebee.



HighHopes (Ranger + Killthestory) ***; I am so glad we killed you on night 2, you would have been terrifying if you survived without any town voice to butt heads with you (thought maybe Ironstove might have provided that)


Raskolnikov *; You were an excellent scum player, but the biggest note I take away from this game is we both see things very differently and I fear for the game when we are both town, cause I can see a mislynch happening between us. But you had the right amount of camouflage to input ratio that makes a great scum player.


shaddowez *; When you posted you were strong, Raskol knew it enough to fear you, but you didnt post enough which was a shame, Day 3 really was your moment to shine and it never took off.


Not_Mafia ironstove SoraAdvent: Firstly Not_Mafia sorry I cant say much as you didnt get to input much to the game but I get the feeling this slot was a bit like goldilocks and the 3 bears. This player is too timid, this player is too much of a prick but this player is just right. Sora's mistake was that they were too timid, they asked the right questions brought up the right issues but it was muddled and it really did feel that the slightest risk of a vote on them and they backed off. Which is a shame, bit more confidence and aggression with the patience to reread posts to structure them and we'd have something to fear. Cant say the same for Ironstove, a lot of noise and fury but easily pushed and prodded and turned around and prone to a lot of confirmation bias, if they didnt get kicked for flying off the handle this game might have ended earlier, again like Hebee hunting scum via their partners is a terrible way to play the game. Easily isolated and put to the sidelines.

Bastion: Awesome scum play...no not really, good day 2, but day 3 dragged which irked me as I like to keep active, problem with active is the nail sticking out tends to get hammered. so I drew some association claims but it became pretty clear early on that everyone just wanted to lynch genji. day 1 I felt went well, though I'd be curious of how day 2 would have gone without all the pr shake up, we never did get to hear anyone respond to Njac pointing the finger firmly at me at the end.

Lycanfire: And that leaves lycanfire...there is a reason I moved you to the end. You won us this game, I dont want to be mean about it, but everything about your play this game fed us, you were an obvious PR, your lack of night actions genuinely doomed this town, if you had been present on just one night you would have shifted the entire balance of this game. You were playing a PR that gives its life to protect town yet you played like self preservation was the highest priority, your day play when it finally showed up was back and forth timid and predictable to erratic and confusing, I get the feeling you were trying to set traps for scum to stumble into (something Ironstove was doing too I think) but a trap is only good if it catches only scum. You also suffered a small bit from confirmation bias which is the biggest problem when you scum hunt via partners, it feeds that bias leading to easy mislynches. And then there was the Kraska77 thread. I dont know how you didnt put 2+2 together from that thread and the pre game replacement.

Which comes to breaking the little dream I expect to see a lot of players grasp, "we lost but we correctly called Bastion or Kyndy or raskol out as scum before we went down", Dont use that as a comfort, so many of the calls against any of the scum in this game came with a train full of requirements. If it wasnt Mylo and we had flipped Genji as town, would I have stayed as scum suspect 2? Thats the horrible flaw of scumhunting via partners, you think you did ok because you identified one person correctly but you lynched the other and that was wrong and it was just a 50/50 chance and you picked the wrong one.

No thats not what happened you wanted to lynch someone else and you twisted content to fit that lynch so you never really built any sort of case or thought on the other player, you're just using that player to justify lynching the first one.

On a side note the only scum to have any sort of wagon in this game was kyndy from an early day 1 bus. Congrats to Raskol I dont think anyone ever voted you, at least not long enough to reach the votecount.


Anyway it was a fun game playing with you all.
Scum:
nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #954 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:14 pm

Post by Raskolnikov »

th-thanks lycan. I think my d3 was pretty garbage tbh as being townread made me way too complacent, same with d2 it was hard to care with vedith the confirmed lynch. Going into d3 with ranger dead I was tbh the most threatened of you coming back, I tried to put up a show around your claim and seem like i cared reading it for you.
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Post Post #955 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:26 pm

Post by Sir Bastion »

Oh I just found my post of the game

from scum chat at the end of night 1:
screw it.

We get caught we get caught. best to get things done and not worry about it.


confirm earlier choices

hopefully town stupidity does most of the work for us


it usually does.
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nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #956 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:28 pm

Post by Raskolnikov »

hurray bastion. overall play really great and I think you barely got voted either, only a few people started to scumread you towards the end when it was already too late
the only like big things I noticed about you were
1. the day 1 hop onto NJAC was kind of dodgy given your position previous to it (and a bit earlier, when you were like OMG stop pushing light you weren't counterpushing anything which I think I'd still have noticed as town tho im not sure)
2. the day 3 active lurking towards the end and like 0 comment on genji the entire day while he was THE lynch target. idk if you did this partly to get people more confbias in associations though.

analysis was fantastic and i really liked your d2
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Post Post #957 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:35 pm

Post by Lycanfire »

Worse someone in this game was posting in the other thread where kraska77 shared their feelings and that person didnt put 2+2 together.
because i knew kraska was in ongoing games, and on another account. not only that, but she felt crushed due to her win in newbie 1718 where she revealed personal info to defend a townie going crazy, who ended up force replaced by the list mod. i knew she was originally meant to be in this game and that you replaced her. there was no reason to believe that she was referring to this game in particular.
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Post Post #958 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:40 pm

Post by Genji »

Definitely feel that Lycan handed this game to scum.
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Post Post #959 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:41 pm

Post by Lycanfire »

Lots of people did.
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Post Post #960 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:43 pm

Post by Genji »

In post 686, Lycanfire wrote:hebee>you>super. all scumfuckers.

everyone else->townfuckers. i'd no lynch over flipping kyndy, bastion or rask and nail your buddies... with my body! or a bullet.
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Post Post #961 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:44 pm

Post by Lycanfire »

I really have nothing kind to say to you. Good bye.
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Post Post #962 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:45 pm

Post by Genji »

What did I do?
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Post Post #963 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:45 pm

Post by Raskolnikov »

genji most of your game you knew from your pov there was confirmed scum within {superbowl, me}
and you didnt vote one of us or try that hard to figure out WHICH it was between us two
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Post Post #964 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:48 pm

Post by Genji »

In post 963, Raskolnikov wrote:genji most of your game you knew from your pov there was confirmed scum within {superbowl, me}
and you didnt vote one of us or try that hard to figure out WHICH it was between us two
I actually was leaning town on Super Bowl towards end.
I wanted kyndy lynched over anyone else, and was confused nobody was pushing that yet everyone had that as scum.

I had hard time forming reads since I was being attacked by nearly everyone.
I actually had townread on bastion because he was one of few who wasn't just outright pushing me.
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Post Post #965 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:49 pm

Post by Genji »

But the correct play was to no lynch in MYLo situation.
Lynching in MYLO is almost always bad
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Post Post #966 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:51 pm

Post by Sir Bastion »

In post 956, Raskolnikov wrote:hurray bastion. overall play really great and I think you barely got voted either, only a few people started to scumread you towards the end when it was already too late
the only like big things I noticed about you were
1. the day 1 hop onto NJAC was kind of dodgy given your position previous to it (and a bit earlier, when you were like OMG stop pushing light you weren't counterpushing anything which I think I'd still have noticed as town tho im not sure)
Yeah I got caught catch 22 there, I needed Sora to post as sora was who I wanted to push but it kept being the same 2-3 players (you Njac and vedith) and I didnt have a reason to jump on any of them so I ended up stalling longer then I wanted. I thought Njac gifted me that hop, I could defend that hop til the end of time from a town perspective. Misrep is a serious matter
2. the day 3 active lurking towards the end and like 0 comment on genji the entire day while he was THE lynch target. idk if you did this partly to get people more confbias in associations though.

analysis was fantastic and i really liked your d2
Day 3 was a problem cause I genuinely didnt see Genji or hebee as scummy and didnt feel confident I could twist it convincingly, I always prefer to argue from a position where something can look scummy as hell with the right prodding, Ironstove was a gift to me because I dont know if Kyndy intended or not but she had blanked that slot throughout the whole game, never said a word beyond hello to them, it looked like genuine distancing and ironstove constantly calling her scum but never voting felt like nirvana, I am still a bit sad that it never picked up momentum because when you ISO the two of them it looks blatantly scummy. As for getting the confbiaa, not intended. I dont know what I did to set Lycan off (I am still genuinely confused by those last 2 pages) and ironstove did it to himself he had set what he thought was a trap and the first person to defend superbowl was clearly his partner.

I gladly walked into that because superbowl was the better player and I rather have him on my side then trying to ride the madness that was ironstove.
Scum:
nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #967 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:55 pm

Post by Sir Bastion »

I love how everything Mhsmith0 said not to do in the deadchat was exactly what we ended up with...
Scum:
nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #968 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:56 pm

Post by Raskolnikov »

In post 965, Genji wrote:But the correct play was to no lynch in MYLo situation.
Lynching in MYLO is almost always bad
to be fair if this was a game where people picked JOAT as one the mafia powers (which is more common than rolecop and ESPECIALLY BP) no-lynch would just have shaddowez killed and one less vote to mislynch someone

so it would have been the optimal choice here but not in like 8 of 10 scenarios similar to this (3 mafia things chosen), so as a theoretical choice it wasnt really that good
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Post Post #969 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:58 pm

Post by light_ganski »

In post 942, Sir Bastion wrote:Is all the night actions up somewhere. I want to know what light did night 1
tracked hebee
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Post Post #970 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:59 pm

Post by Raskolnikov »

In post 968, Raskolnikov wrote:
In post 965, Genji wrote:But the correct play was to no lynch in MYLo situation.
Lynching in MYLO is almost always bad
to be fair if this was a game where people picked JOAT as one the mafia powers (which is more common than rolecop and ESPECIALLY BP) no-lynch would just have shaddowez killed and one less vote to mislynch someone

so it would have been the optimal choice here but not in like 8 of 10 scenarios similar to this (3 mafia things chosen), so as a theoretical choice it wasnt really that good
actually I take this back
Joat strongman would have been used n2 onto highhopes and not have been available for n3.
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Post Post #971 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:01 pm

Post by Sir Bastion »

In post 969, light_ganski wrote:
In post 942, Sir Bastion wrote:Is all the night actions up somewhere. I want to know what light did night 1
tracked hebee
pity I was really hoping for the perfect storm of you tracking me to lycan or raskol coming to beat your brains in.
Scum:
nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #972 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:04 pm

Post by Genji »

In post 970, Raskolnikov wrote:
In post 968, Raskolnikov wrote:
In post 965, Genji wrote:But the correct play was to no lynch in MYLo situation.
Lynching in MYLO is almost always bad
to be fair if this was a game where people picked JOAT as one the mafia powers (which is more common than rolecop and ESPECIALLY BP) no-lynch would just have shaddowez killed and one less vote to mislynch someone

so it would have been the optimal choice here but not in like 8 of 10 scenarios similar to this (3 mafia things chosen), so as a theoretical choice it wasnt really that good
actually I take this back
Joat strongman would have been used n2 onto highhopes and not have been available for n3.
Which would mean to resolve Lycan, no lynched was best bet.
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Post Post #973 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:07 pm

Post by Raskolnikov »

I'm wondering what the odds were we kill N_M there to fuck with everyone :lol:
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Post Post #974 (ISO) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:08 pm

Post by Raskolnikov »

nah it would have looked bad for me... if there was a kill outside of the PRs people would wonder why it isnt me
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