Open 653: C9++ [Game Over!]

[karnos]

I'm pretty sure that no matter what Karnos flipped, if the game wasn't over I was going to hang next.

I think he's talking about the DixC hammer here

Correct.

[FancyPants]

Anyway well played everyone and thanks for modding ducks!
If I have one qualm it was you replacing Persivul, he was the one townie that wasn't promoting unity.

It wasn't related to alignment, I wasn't trying to influence the game. Hopefully you're not implying that I was though

No of course you weren't trying to influence the game!

I just wish he'd been allowed to stay, as I think his continued existence would have helped us.

[Antihero]

Also I thought TNE and TTH replacing out was pretty bad form, every game gets heated, didn't feel like this game was worse than usual.

no, they both did the right thing. for whatever reason, they were unable to continue so they left. you are not in a position to judge for them whether or not things got too heated. neither are you in a position to judge or dictate that they stay in a game.

same thing for dixc. the only reason his may have been in bad form was that he waited until the slot was fucked beyond repair before bailing. but that could've been bc of factors beyond his control, i don't know.

the only way it gets problematic if you have a repeated pattern of doing this exclusively as a particular alignment to the point where it develops into a trust tell (someone DID get in trouble for this a while back).

outside of that, i don't fault people replacing out at all. it sucks for the mod in the short term but it sucks even more to have someone in the game that doesn't want to be there.

[Vaxkiller]

You're welcome for my indelible contribution

VOTE: Not_Mafia MVP of game!

GG all

Huge thanks to the mod for putting up with all of us!

[Aquanim]

...
no, they both did the right thing. for whatever reason, they were unable to continue so they left. you are not in a position to judge for them whether or not things got too heated. neither are you in a position to judge or dictate that they stay in a game.
...

If you have to replace out then you do, but TNE could have refrained from the "Yeah I'm done XDDD". Kind of belittles the effort which others put in.

[Aquanim]

Then again, I am generally of the opinion that saying anything at all in the game thread when you want to replace out is bad form, and indeed I have specifically prohibited it in games I've run in the past. People who aren't in the game any more should not affect its outcome.

[eagerSnake]

I'm still confused about the choice of NKs here...they must have been wary of Doc protections, which we didn't even have a Doc

[Antihero]

If you have to replace out then you do, but TNE could have refrained from the "Yeah I'm done XDDD". Kind of belittles the effort which others put in.

i could be wrong but i don't think that was tne's intention.

[karnos]

I'm still confused about the choice of NKs here...they must have been wary of Doc protections, which we didn't even have a Doc

Not at all. It was meant to misdirect, as in "why would karnos kill the only guy town reading him?"

Sometimes that strategy works, but since I wasn't able to be active on the day following the kill, and the day ended super fast, I couldn't even try to stear the conversation in that directions.

[copper223]

my bet is that this is a whiteknight

I have a free day 1 pass Anti.

Loved how the townies played this game, it may surprise some of you how often scum lurking and not doing anything results in town cannibalizing each other looking for scum-tells that are not there, one of the hardest bastard setups I play in my home games is when you give only town-roles and town wins only if they NL.

Scum had it rough and I agree that the initial replacements being people that most found easy to town-read made it even harder (TNE at least might have been a mislynch, and for some of you there might have been lingering doubt about TTH's alignment), but that has nothing to do with whether the replacements were justified (which is not something we can judge without knowing the RL factors in play).

[Antihero]

I have a free day 1 pass Anti.

yeah my instinct was bad there. c'mon man you already knew i have mediocre to crappy reads accuracy.

[Firebringer]

I was the MVP!

[PenguinPower]

I was the MVP!

Meh. You're the only townie who was lynched.

[Yuria]

Fake claiming causes a few problems in this setup, since an eventual mass claim will show a claimed pr is scum since townies eventually figure out the setup (doubly so with the mod slip :c ). If you hadn't killed nm night one, he might have led the town in a different direction day 2.

FP -> Playing scum is really difficult, I don't blame you for hating it. I think if you had interacted with players a little less formally you might have survived longer. I'm usually pretty bad at scum, but I usually try to engage as much as I do as town which works to some success.

[Firebringer]

I was the MVP!

Meh. You're the only townie who was lynched.

Which is why I am MVP

[gigabyteTroubadour]

confession: i almost replaced into the DixC slot

kinda glad i didn't lol, that'd suck for a first scum game

[mhsmith0]

Fake claiming requires two scum fake claiming and neither getting caught, see open 635 (jk9 instead of c9 but same idea)

[Aquanim]

I thought it required scum to claim one or more roles which account for two letters between them (to account for the game having a Serial Killer or not).

[Aquanim]

I'm still confused about the choice of NKs here...they must have been wary of Doc protections, which we didn't even have a Doc

Not at all. It was meant to misdirect, as in "why would karnos kill the only guy town reading him?"
...

I'm not sure that would work when there was no guarantee that Not_Mafia would townread you in the same way.

[mhsmith0]

I thought it required scum to claim one or more roles which account for two letters between them (to account for the game having a Serial Killer or not).

That also can work; mainly you just need to cover two letters (or be willing to 1v1 against a or potentially I guess). RC and ranger fake claimed role cop and Doctor which were one letter each in that game.

[Vaxkiller]

Anyone have any tips for me to improve my town play, I'm always up for pointers and constructive criticism. I'll also accept insults from eagersnake.

Please keep it mafia related and not that mess that happened earlier I was involved in.

[PenguinPower]

Oh yeah. Tips for me too. Think this is the first game where I wasn't scum read! I'm improving.

[Aquanim]

Anyone have any tips for me to improve my town play, I'm always up for pointers and constructive criticism. I'll also accept insults from eagersnake.

I appreciate that this advice may sound a little strange coming from me in the context of this game, but perhaps make it clearer what your point of view is, and make more effort to convince other people that your point of view is correct. That was a difficult thing to do effectively in this game so I don't know if that advice applies to your play in general.

Spoiler:

Please keep it mafia related and not that mess that happened earlier I was involved in.

For what it's worth I don't hold that against you permanently or anything. Mistakes happen, and it's not like you made a habit of them.

I don't think I can come to many meaningful conclusions about Penguin's play from this game, unfortunately. Maybe work out what it was about Karnos that caused you to read him incorrectly?

[copper223]

@PP
Don't be afraid to express your opinions as a power role / confirmed townie, my standard IC play is to be enough of a pain in the ass to scum that they have to kill me instead of PR hunting a more important role or a townie that they also feel threatened by.

That said also lurking to stay alive longer like you did is viable, your aim then is to collect enough info from what everyone else is saying and around d3 d4 slam the scum-team before you are NK'd.

[PenguinPower]

Maybe work out what it was about Karnos that caused you to read him incorrectly?

The fact that every game I've played with him he has been scum, and I wanted him to be town for once.

That's the crux of it. Still, that was the funnest hammer.