Open 671: Greater Idea - OVER

[alban]

Mod PT is a great read. Especially the last page where they were predicting the winner.

[alban]

Should have accepted Mafia Cupid. The only reason I didn't coz I was banking on being considered a town based on my discard. Which helped to a certain extent. But wiser now. Will not let MC go ever again.

[Spade_Ace]

Uggghhh....grey, you judas....nice play...

@aristodog i understand you had to go for judgment calls regarding blackgoo. But, next time i think it would be better to convert anyone who targets/kills goo. Else that role becomes completely negative for town. Town didnt stand a chance this game having Judas with them too.

Alban, your tunnelling on me was same as the last time u were scum. Should have put more pressure on you.

[bangthemafia]

Not_Mafia has been lynched, he was a

Mafia Doctor.

The moon was full, howls could be heard from miles away. The three wolves struck ferociously and took out their remaining prey to seize victory.

alban, the

Mafia Goon

, has been endgamed.

bangthemafia, the

FBI Agent

, has been endgamed.

-Grey-, the

Judas

, has been endgamed.

Which leaves our three victorious wolves. Congratulations to:

Carnelian, the

Werewolf 1-Shot Bulletproof

Kop, the

Werewolf Roleblocker

Vaxkiller, the

Werewolf

You guys fulfilled your win-condition and achieved victory!

Thank you for playing all of you, thanks to all the replacements, thanks to Secret Agent Jin for giving us the idea to mod this even though he site flaked. And most of all, big thanks to my co-mod Aristophanes. I definitely would not have been able to mod this solo. PT's to be released in a bit. Mafia and Wolves if you want to omit anything from your PT you will have 48 hours to say such otherwise I will release it to the public!

Mod PT
Dead PT
Wolf PT (COMING SOON TO A STORE NEAR YOU!!)
Mafia PT(COMING SOON TO A STORE NEAR YOU!!)

D1 actions:

Charloux

dayvigges

RadiantCowbells

(success)

Charloux

is lynched

N1 actions:

davesaz

saves

-Grey-

(Success!)

Lowell

bloodhounds

Kop

(not town, killed)

bangthemafia

FBIs

Spade_Ace

(blocked)

alban

kills

-Grey-

(Failure)

Not_Mafia

saves

alban

Kop

blocks

bangthemafia

Vaxkiller

kills

Lowell

D2 actions:

-Grey-

is lynched, and converts to

Mafia.

N2 actions:

davesaz

protects

-Grey-

(blocked)

bangthemafia

FBIs

Kop

(not SK)

Not_Mafia

kills

davesaz

Not_Mafia

saves

-Grey-

Vaxkiller

kills

Spade_Ace

Kop

blocks

davesaz

D3 actions:

Not_Mafia

is lynched,

werewolves

achieve victory

Damn!!!

1. SO I was the only surviving townie amongst the 7. That means whichever way I would have played, it was a town loss. Even if we went for a no lynch on 2 successive days, and both factions killed one of each on the 2 successive nights, we would have gone into day 5 as 1+1+1, so it would be a town loss for sure!

2. So what hurt the town most? Grey's day 2 lynch conversion to mafia and Spade and Daves' kills on night 2 pushed town into 3+3+1 from which we could never recover.

3. My reads are so horrible!!! I was completely pocketed by Grey!

Note1 to myself- Never ever ever trust anyone!

4. Spade, sorry darling for suspecting and tunnelling on you so much! And giving such a free clear chit to alban. It just turned the exact opposite. But there was a reason for my tunnelling. Since I was blocked on Night 1, I thought why would the players I am playing for the first time block me? Didnt make sense. (I should have known Kop/Gamma could also have blocked me) So I thought one of you or alban had blocked me. Thats why I said this-

I didn't have time to really speak in bang's big ass wall, but I have to say that he came across as townie in what I did read.

Felt I should mention that before the thread is locked in case I don't see tomorrow

Thanks Grey. Really appreciate this. One of us is definitely gonna pop tonight. The remaining one knows where to see. Look into Spade and Alban very carefully if I die tonight

@Spade, but then your dramatic reveal of wild card and then alban's "this is just not spade" fuelled my paranoia about you. Imagine I was so sold out to you being scum that I was ready to target you to be able to tell that YOU ARE NOT BLACK GOO! When Grey and others said, you can get modkilled for that, I dropped it. But I was so sold out to alban being a town that even when you flipped green, I didnt suspect him as the scum who blocked me night 1, but thought he could be a town JK who JKed me.

Note2 to myself- Never ever trust your reads on alban and spade!

5. By the way, I am happy that Kop blocked me, else I would have been culted. Also, happy that I suspected the right guy Night 2. Just that FBI agent is not very useful role as it only detects SK.

6. @Grey, I was right on track about 2 factions and 3+3+1 deduction. But then you were so confident that Spade kill has to Vig's and there was nothing to suggest we had 2 factions, that I think I bought your views there. I shouldnt have. By the way, why did you say that? Because NM was your scumbuddy. So your supporting him and getting Vax lynched could sway the results in your favour. Or did you really feel that NM was bluffing and there was no other faction in the game?

7.Most importantly, how stupid of all of us to believe Grey's Saulus claim! I went back and checked. Gamma did say this-

Hm
In offsite games it's common for Judas to claim Saulus, but given the circumstances and site meta being different I trust Grey.

Even Spade, me, and even alban did express few initial hesitations to believe his claim. Read pages 28-30. Grey basically followed offense is the best defense. As alban rightly said, with such players, others just get entangled in responding to them rather than questioning them.

Note3 to myself- Never ever fall prey to this aggressive approach

8.

Lastly I did breadcrumb in post 341!

I once called Grey "an idiot" when he wrote a loooong post with those RED FLAGS to incriminate me, because he went so much into my posts but didnot notice my breadcrumbing-

mmmm Alban feels like he's backpedaling on page 7

Sorry but can you explain what is backpedalling?

All caught up.
Questions/FOSes (questions because some of these feel like misunderstandings)
RC - Why are you determined to lynch Not Mafia?
alban - can you explain your thought process on page 7?
bang - what were you trying to accomplish with your Grey interaction?
Vax - explain your unvote in the post I quoted.

I didnt have any thought out motive that I wanted to accomplish. I am just not used to roleclaims in people's first posts on the 1st page. And this guy comes out with not only his own but 2 others' roleclaims. SO my intuitive reaction was WTF!

Not super familiar (all ongoing) but regardless of meta, RC's actions are

extremely

scummy.

NM is towny
prob a tier higher than Charles/Dave

Dave is a bit towny too

Walk me through your cases please. Whats scummy about RC, and whats towny about NM, Dave, Charl?

I

remember my Scumpartner!Charl from 657 and his style was the same there.

M

ostly posting stuff just to stay in picture and not get called a lurker.

F

air enough that you have a scum lean on me.

B

ut would also appreciate some reasons for scumreading me apart from my reaction to Grey's fake roleclaim.

I

nitially I got surprised that someone is claiming on page 1.

A

lso his aggressive style and tunneling on spade for wildcard.

G

ood for him maybe, but usually such aggression leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

E

ven then, after he turned down RC's seemingly logical suggestion to lynch NM (I would, maybe, have fallen for that), I started getting town vibes from him.

N

M, on the other hand, has not explained much.

T

own would initially start getting agitated for being suspected before they give up and get frustrated, in my opinion. Still, he was the only one who openly said that Grey's push on me was shitty and acknowledged my newness. You may call it buddying but I give him some town points for that!

So as of now, my llist is-
Strong town read- Grey, Gamma
Null to town read- Vaxkiller
Null- Alban, Kop, Charl, SAJ, Spade, NM (upgraded here from below)
Null to scum lean- Culted, RC

Whenever I saw someone suspecting me, I just kept telling, please believe me, I am a town. Because I wanted to keep this for the last day if there be one.

That faction won which was the least active, and received constant prods useless.

It was so obvious kop and gamma were scums, especially on day 3. I wish I was a townie. Being a scum, I couldn't be too vocal about it.

Why not? Pointing out scum will always give you more town cred. Plus you would have reduced your competitor faction.

Anyway, thanks a ton to all of you, the players, the mods. This was my first ever Greater Mafia and I thoroughly enjoyed the unpredictability!

[bangthemafia]

Uggghhh....grey, you judas....nice play...

@aristodog i understand you had to go for judgment calls regarding blackgoo. But, next time i think it would be better to convert anyone who targets/kills goo. Else that role becomes completely negative for town. Town didnt stand a chance this game having Judas with them too.

Alban, your tunnelling on me was same as the last time u were scum. Should have put more pressure on you.

Agree Spade, this setup was quite heavily biased against town. But I guess with alignment changes, its bound to be that way and role madness games do not assure explicit balance.

Dont agree about alban's tunnelling. To me, he came across as sincerely suspecting you, probably because I also suspected that.

But I think 1 major clue that I completely missed was that mainly on day 1 and to some extent on day 2, since mafia did not know about judas, and vice versa, alban was almost at loggerheads with Grey. Both of them suspected each other, made some mild personal attacks on playstyle etc etc. But that was completely absent on day 3. Till day 2 end, I had this in back of my mind that Saulus claim could be a false one by a judas, and that I need to carefully look into change in dynamics. But on day 3, shocked by your flip and the NM - Vax double claims, I just forgot about it. Not that it would have been of any help. Coz the damage was already done before day 3 even started!!!

[Transcend]

glad you had fun bang

[alban]

Alban, your tunnelling on me was same as the last time u were scum. Should have put more pressure on you.

That was my cover. 'Am I stupid enough to play with the same style as the same alignment?'
I had originally planned to completely avoid framing you this game, but those early posts by you were too easily frame-able to ignore. The role you got was cherry on top.

[alban]

Bang, I was going to claim JK, if it came to that

About your point about believing Grey: Till day 2, I was sure that Grey would be our lynch target on day 3, since one could never verify his claim. I was gonna pitch it to the city. On night 2, however, there was a surprise entry to the Scum PT, guess who

I was so sure that you guys will catch my U-turn regarding Grey. I was completely antagonistic till day 2, and ignored him on day 3. But thankfully I wasn't caught. It would have been difficult for me to explain that, which is where JK claim (suggested by Grey) would have been useful. I was planning to claim that both nights, I JK'd Grey.

[alban]

Role madness games are so much more fun than regular ones!
Going back to normal games is way too tame now.

[-Grey-]

Greatest Idea is even more fun than Greater Idea.

[alban]

Grey, for any of your future greatest idea games as a mod, consider this a pre-in

[alban]

I have turned into an addict after this game.

[-Grey-]

I don't mod.

Phone poster.

[bangthemafia]

Bang, I was going to claim JK, if it came to that

About your point about believing Grey: Till day 2, I was sure that Grey would be our lynch target on day 3, since one could never verify his claim. I was gonna pitch it to the city. On night 2, however, there was a surprise entry to the Scum PT, guess who

I was so sure that you guys will catch my U-turn regarding Grey. I was completely antagonistic till day 2, and ignored him on day 3. But thankfully I wasn't caught. It would have been difficult for me to explain that, which is where JK claim (suggested by Grey) would have been useful. I was planning to claim that both nights, I JK'd Grey.

By day 3 start, the damage was already done. It was just a race between the villains! Town had already lost with Grey, Spade, Dave lost and a traitor added to your faction!!

[bangthemafia]

What beats me is why you guys gave up so easily? Grey and alban cud hav persuaded people not to lynch NM. And NM self hammered!!! U guys were equal (3:3) on day 3!!

[Aristophanes]

I don't mod.

Phone poster.

I am too. Almost every post I made (many VCs, all answer posts, and I

think

a flip [though I try to keep them to PC only posts]) were done on mobile. It's very doable!

[Kop]

I swear there will be a game I'll roll a town role when I'm playing Lowell.

[alban]

What beats me is why you guys gave up so easily? Grey and alban cud hav persuaded people not to lynch NM. And NM self hammered!!! U guys were equal (3:3) on day 3!!

Beats me too. Was facepalming all the way. Read the scum PT.

[Vaxkiller]

Vax, what a game on day 3!! But not happy with your activity level overall.

Thanks, Why do you think my activity was low? I thought I was posting pretty frequently! Sometimes a weekend would go by without too much, but weekdays were pretty frequent.

[Vaxkiller]

Role madness games are so much more fun than regular ones!
Going back to normal games is way too tame now.

I swear its the ONLY way I get to play anything else besides VT.

[Vaxkiller]

Greatest Idea is even more fun than Greater Idea.

And Worst idea is even better than that!

[alban]

There's something called Worst Idea too?
Howz it different from greatest?

[Vaxkiller]

Howz it different from greatest?

It's the worst!

[Vaxkiller]

Here is the idea thread for it: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4736

Most of the roles have incredibly overpowered and/or complex mechanics that are guaranteed to be a mods worst nightmare, trying to figure out how they work in conjunction with each other.

An example?

You are a Win Condition Reverser.

Each night, you may target a player other than yourself. If they would win (at any subsequent point in the game), they lose instead. If they would lose, they win instead. They will not be informed of this.

[bangthemafia]

@Dave,
In dead PT, your post #22 reads-

Sorry Lowell, I didn't read your "on me" as investigative or I would have doc'd you.
Doc'd Grey both nights

I've gotta do better at ignoring being scumread when I'm a PR. I keep forgetting that it's what I want in that situation

Can you please explain? Why would you as PR want to be scumread? Is it so that scum feel u r a good lynchbait and don't NK you?

Didnt anyone from scum faction (or even town) notice my breadcrumbing?