Open 696: Cosmopolitan [END]

[havingfitz]

Good game all. I'm in transit atm until tomorrow am. Will post thoughts fwiw post arrival nap.

[Realeo]

Snarky Snowman has been lunched. He is a

Vannila Town

Jules Vincent & Mary Saotame has been end lunched. They are

Vanilla Townies

havingfitz and iisq survived. They are

Mafia Goon A

Mafia has achieved victory condition!

[Realeo]

If you are wondering what is happening behind the scene of the mafia--well a lot!

Mafia A
Mafia B

[iiSq5024]

GG! Snarky was right that inactivity was a problem (although Snarky was also part of the problem soooooooo )

As you can see in the mafia A topic, I am an alt and was planning to reveal after the game. If anyone wants to guess who I am before I do, you probably won't, though I've played a few games with some of you (Virtuoso, Creature, Snarky). (FYI: I considered trying a different playstyle but I literally can't. So I played pretty much exactly how I would on my main, except sans meta which made pushing lurkers that much easier. ) My scum game is normally crap, but the night 2 kills were super good for me (taking out the 3 players who were most strongly pushing me)... Virtuoso scum MVP

[Virtuoso]

Woo hoo! I had a very strong feeling iisq was scum

[iiSq5024]

So why were you pushing me then

I was genuinely scared of you, especially when I didn't know who your main was.

[Creature]

It's bad for town if one mafia side dies early while the other stays intact.

[Virtuoso]

@Maf A - did you guys catch my crumb "I"m mafia B who hard bussed for town cred'

[Virtuoso]

So why were you pushing me then

I was genuinely scared of you, especially when I didn't know who your main was.

Mostly for town cred.

I caught CommCloud as PGO fairly quiclky. That's why I went ahead and sacrificed myself for you two

[Virtuoso]

BTW who's your main?

[Realeo]

I don't think the problem is about inactivity. I think in this game, the activity is par. Sure, there are some days where there is no post at all, but at least when it does, it's substantive.

I think the problem of this game is about townblok.

Town got lucky the first time Virtuoso went for suicide. Had he didn't, he would be invisible when he is so deep inside the osuka-Commknight townblok.

When Creature started a town blocked and stopped taking input, it's over.

[Realeo]

It's bad for town if one mafia side dies early while the other stays intact.

I think this is incorrect.

The correct one is it is bad for town for PGO to die early.

[Virtuoso]

The correct one is it is bad for town for PGO to die early.

And that's kinda what happened

[Realeo]

I mean, if Virtuoso didn't suicide, I reckon you would get to MYLO 1 day sooner.

[Creature]

or mafia would crosskill.

[Virtuoso]

True. The danger of being in MyLo is that I may have accidently quick hammered scum and outted myself

[iiSq5024]

And do you think Virtuoso is dangerous though? I was surprised when I found out he was ThinkBig. I've played with ThinkBig before; I was scum and pocketed him pretty well. So yes he's obvtown but he's not the worst person in the world to have as obvtown.

This is the game, if that helps determine my main.

And no, the thought that you might be Assemble's partner never even crossed my mind. I don't think crumbing scum is a good idea, because there's no reason to assume that only scum will pick up on it. Crumbing as town is one thing because if only one or two people see it the odds are decent that they're town, but not when you're scum.

[Virtuoso]

[iiSq5024]

And yeah Virtuoso picking up on CommKnight and suiciding was really good (and definitely the right play since I would have probably shot you the next night); you can see in the PT that I also had no idea (nor did I care) who the PGO was.

[Realeo]

or mafia would crosskill.

Ah, you are the guy who see that the glass is half full.

[iiSq5024]

We were pretty close to crosskilling there. Fitz advocated for it and I initially wanted to but changed my mind when I realized that it was better for us to make a less obvious kill because we had less of a chance of crosskilling than B did. And I really wanted osuka dead

[Realeo]

From the perspective as the setup designer, my mind is that town is not supposed to win by cross killing. Town is supposed to win by lynching because there are so many scum to lynch that it's almost hard to mislynch. The difference is that even though mafia may have the number, they don't get to coordnate. The night kill mechanism is actually used to make the game easier for town--not easier for scum--because scum is more likely to NK town and reduce the pool..

And computer simulation speaking, this game is townsided by a small margin.

[Realeo]

I may disagree with Osuka, but I think the Advanced Start helped a lot to cut the RVS?

[Realeo]

I also think that Keyser Soze is a good player who went into the right direction many times. I think he would have a good time here and I hope he stay.

[iiSq5024]

It's bad for town if one mafia side dies early while the other stays intact.

I think this is incorrect.

The correct one is it is bad for town for PGO to die early.

I think both are true to an extent. It's extremely bad for town if BOTH occur as they did here.

I think the concept of the game is cool but the execution is awkward. The PGO is annoying to play around as scum (although if scum get lucky like Virtuoso did they can deal with it very well), and the nightskips create a positive feedback which punishes town more for lynching town and rewards it more for lynching scum... ideally the other way around is better as it reduces swing. While the setup might be balanced I think that it is in practice very hard on town unless scum crosskill, giving town an incentive to be dodgy about their reads to try to get scum to crosskill, which screws up scumhunting further. And Day 2 MYLO isn't great.

Although there are a lot of things that can go wrong between the two scumteams, at the end of the day it's 9:4 which is a lot of power for scum. It might be a better idea to remove the nightskip and increase the number of players, like 2:2:13 maybe? That would decrease the potential for an early catastrophe for one team or the other.

In response to 1021: as long as scum have decent reads they should be fairly able to identify mislynchable townies, and if scum don't get killed at night it only takes a few mislynches to give scum a majority if they kill well (and I don't think it's too hard to make kills that are likely to land on town and not be doubled by the other team). Scum NK'ing town doesn't help town because it increases the influence scum have on the game overall. (fun fact: I was on every mislynch, first on three of them and second on the other )

And yeah, Keyser was great. I want to be on the same team as him sometime