Open 699 - Pick your Poison - Town Win

[Transcend]

VOTE: Luca Blight

[Luca Blight]

I think I'm someone that will always be bothered by naked votes

[Transcend]

Deal with it

[Luca Blight]

I won't just deal with it, I'll

transcend

it.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Elmo TeH AzN - Her posts are short and brief which isn't too useful. I don't think there is anything scummy about her, but due to her lack of meaningful contribution, I would be willing to lynch them day 1.

We have 12 Days to deadline. Bravo

[Luca Blight]

Town reads so far:

Kelbris

, Transcend, Mutant
I want to say Ectomancer too but there’s a little more doubt there.

I’m also very torn on IceGuy right now.

I'm skeptical as to this Townread of Kelbris here.

Spoiler: Let's take a look at his posts

Hello everyone, let's have a great game.

VOTE: sheepsaysmeep
everyone has their own way of saying hello, maybe dave's a Fat Albert fan.

I don't think IceGuy is bad tbh. Looking at his posts so far, we have an RVS post, one that is advising someone else to NOT get the mod to confirm their IC role (a good idea tbh, since that would make the IC an easy target for maf) and one (which I agree with) saying that others are basically using 2 posts for their reads, neither of which are scum-posts.

I don't know if Transcend has been IC before, but it is possible that IceGuy was telling him just in case, lots of posts does not equal experience as roles such as IC, not voting for them yet because of the IC claim, it might be accurate, then again, I have never been in a game with that role before so idk.

I don't have any other reads right now, so I am going to

UNVOTE:
for now.

I was voicing my opinion on the 2 main wagons in the game. People were voting Transcend because of his "IC" claim, and voting IceGuy because of his advice to not get the mod to reveal. So far, the only one I have any suspicion on is havingfitz because of his suggestion that Transcend should get the mod to confirm the IC claim D1, something which I believe does nothing but put a big target on the IC's back (unless there is a JK, but we don't know what the maf chose).

Post #1 - Rvs; NAI.

Post #2 - what I would call an unproductive post - it's early in the game and 'pressure' on the likes of Transcend and IceGuy is designed to create content. Defending IceGuy here does nothing but put a halt to that momentum, leaving the game back where it started; with nothing. I'm even more skeptical after Deas' point (which I agree with) in 39 where he acknowledges that such exaggeration of early posts in and around RVS is sometimes required - why then does he like this post by Kelbris?

Post #3 - Kelbris explains his #2 post. His point against Fitz is fair enough, but then why not mention it in post #2 and why not place a vote on Fitz/follow up his suspicion with questioning?

So if Deas could explain this one, that would be great.

[Luca Blight]

The 'very torn' comment on IceGuy seems forced to me as well.

There hasn't been enough content from IceGuy to justify a 'very torn' position - it's like Deas thinks he has to say something about IceGuy as he is the topic of discussion, so just makes something up.

[Luca Blight]

Of the five completed ones I could find this was the layouts:

1 - IC/2*Vig/1*Cop & 3 mafia goons
2 - IC/2*Vig/Tracker & 3 mafia goons
3 - IC/2*Vig/Tracker & 3 mafia goons
4 - IC/2*Vig/1* Cop & 3 mafia goons
5 - IC/2*Vig/1*Cop & 3 mafia goons

I am wondering whether a Townie would look so thoroughly into the previous setups so early in the game, particularly given scum pick the powers.

Also Fitz's annoyance in this post about the potential IC being outed doesn't seem very sincere considering his relaxed tone in this post:

I HARDCLAIM INNOCENT CHILE

I believe you.
But can you ask the mod to confirm you are IC to remove all doubt?

VOTE: DeasVail

You genuinely thought Transcend was IC claiming here, yet you seemed completely cool with it.

[Luca Blight]

And this one:

The mod cannot confirm me as innocent chile

I assumed a mispell...not lame humor.

Shame....you're one it would be nice to have confirmed.

VOTE: Transcend

You call it a 'shame' he's not genuinely claiming IC, but then later are annoyed that an IC could have potentially been outed:

Regardless...pretty clear there will be an IC in this game which makes Transcend's lol claim all the more annoying. Would have sucked if Transcend is town and his humor caused the real ~IC to claim. As it is...I think the ~IC should wait until he/she is on the verge of being lynched...if that ever happens. Same obviously for the other 2 PRs.

[DeasVail]

I’m now slightly paranoid that my three town reads are actually the scum team. :/

[sheepsaysmeep]

I’m now slightly paranoid that my three town reads are actually the scum team. :/

sr on deas
he tr's ppl luca does like 1 post against 2 of them and deas just backs of


i'll go read the thread someday

[DeasVail]

Transcend, your play at the beginning of the game was very out there and attracted a lot of attention, and was quite risky from a scum perspective. However, an argument could also be made for your approach being pro-town.

Why do you disagree?

Posts to be cont

[DeasVail]

My reads haven’t necessarily changed btw.

I’m at work and haven’t had the chance to update them.

[Yuria]

Nice job dodging the question

yeah, I have a reason. Not gonna push it until I've seen more from them, but it wasn't just random.

[sheepsaysmeep]

Nice job dodging the question

yeah, I have a reason. Not gonna push it until I've seen more from them, but it wasn't just random.

you could at the very least provide the reason

[sheepsaysmeep]

hi
in what universe is hiding reason to vote someone town

[Luca Blight]

With regards to Fishy, his point against IceGuy here is completely null:

Not sold on the Transcend wagon. I think blatant rolefishing is one of those "scumtells" that scum don't actually do.

IceGuy is a bit more convincing, because of what Ectomancer said here:

I asked myself why Iceguy would state the super obvious to Transcend to not ask the mod to confirm the role claimed. Iceguy has been around, but Transcend has literally 10x the number of posts of either one of us. So I'm slapping Iceguy with an "I'm a super helpful townie" scum tell violation.

Also, IceGuy's random vote goes out of it's way to tell you it's random (saying the reason if OMGUS). Making sure you don't provoke any actual conflict seems more likely to come from scum.

The amount of times I've seen someone use 'OMGUS' as the reason for an RVS vote is innumerable. As someone who has been here since 2008, he must surely have seen the same types of RVS posts coming from both alignments? As for the 'super helpful townie' thing - that could be a valid point, but not a very strong one as I could easily see a Townie making the same point.

Are people seriously basing a scumread on two posts, one of which is RVS?

Yes.

Then why aren't you voting IceGuy?

It seems pretty usual to me that people exaggerate the significance of their thoughts early game in order to actually have something to talk about. Is that your experience too?

Ectomancer seems more intent on finding somebody to lynch, instead of finding scum.

What makes you think that? I'd say moving from Transcend to you looks more like someone trying to find scum;

someone who doesn't care who they lynch has no reason to hop..

This is an incredibly simplistic view and devoid of context.

Is Fishy really implying that scum wouldn't wagon hop?

[DeasVail]

I’ve looked over kelbris’s posts again and I can’t actually work out why I townread him. Maybe it was ~the vibe~. It’s weird because I remember thinking he was my strongest townread, which is why I put him first in my list. I’ll let you know if I work it out.

I was worried about mutant after skimming his big post, but on reread I still think he is town.

Transcend is still a townread, but I’m still interested in an answer to my posts.

[DeasVail]

*post

[Fishythefish]

The amount of times I've seen someone use 'OMGUS' as the reason for an RVS vote is innumerable. As someone who has been here since 2008, he must surely have seen the same types of RVS posts coming from both alignments? As for the 'super helpful townie' thing - that could be a valid point, but not a very strong one as I could easily see a Townie making the same point.

I find the best way to get out of the RVS is to make serious votes, even if they are weak. I think that avoiding conflict in the RVS probably is a mild scumtell; of course RVS posts like that come from both alignments, but I think scum are slightly more likely to make them.

FYI as you've spotted my join date: I've played very infrequently for several years (1-2 games/year). Not relevant here - I have indeed seen my share of RVS's - but I'm probably less up on lots of more recent things than you'd expect.

Then why aren't you voting IceGuy?

Er.... I honestly thought I was. Thanks.
VOTE: IceGuy

It seems pretty usual to me that people exaggerate the significance of their thoughts early game in order to actually have something to talk about. Is that your experience too?

Ectomancer seems more intent on finding somebody to lynch, instead of finding scum.

What makes you think that? I'd say moving from Transcend to you looks more like someone trying to find scum;

someone who doesn't care who they lynch has no reason to hop..

This is an incredibly simplistic view and devoid of context.

Is Fishy really implying that scum wouldn't wagon hop?

When you say "devoid of context" - do you think there's more context I should have added?

No, I'm not implying that scum wouldn't wagon hop. IceGuy is saying specifically that "Ectomancer seems more intent on finding somebody to lynch, instead of finding scum." I don't think that fits well with Ectomancer's actions - hopping between two about equally sized wagons doesn't really look like going for any old lynch - so I want to hear more from IceGuy on why he thinks this.

[Luca Blight]

Other things I don't like about Fitz' 31 post:

Slow day.

Not fond of RVS but typically throw a vote out anyway.

Hence the DeasVail vote.

Also not fond of people doing shit that could potentially result in town PRs being outed. Ex...claiming something that resembles an actual town PR like "Innocent Chile" smh....

Hence the Transcend vote.

First of, why explain an RVS vote?

Second, was he actually scumreading Transcend for this, or did Fitz just vote him because he was made to look a bit silly (and possibly scummy)?

Not solid on my Transcend vote...if he was going to screw around as scum and try to lol out someone I would think he'd try for a non-IC pr...which scum would know who was in play. i.e. I doubt my vote stays there long.

He is so uncommitted to his Transcend vote, why bother even keeping it at this stage? I don't like this because it looks like he's making an excuse for an unvote but feels a bit self-conscious about doing it right away.

If he doesn't like where his vote is, why isn't he striving to find a better place for his vote? 31 is a long post, but it's all setup spec and making excuses; there is not a hint of scumhunting.

UNVOTE:

Then, 12 posts later he nakedly unvotes.

What compelled him to unvote here?

Speaking of votes, I like mine better here right now.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Fitz

[Luca Blight]

When you say "devoid of context" - do you think there's more context I should have added?

Devoid of context because you were making a general statement that didn't take into account the current state of play - the fact the game is still in its infancy which means wagon switches bear less significance.

No, I'm not implying that scum wouldn't wagon hop. IceGuy is saying specifically that "Ectomancer seems more intent on finding somebody to lynch, instead of finding scum." I don't think that fits well with Ectomancer's actions - hopping between two about equally sized wagons doesn't really look like going for any old lynch - so I want to hear more from IceGuy on why he thinks this.

Fair enough.

IceGuy did seem a bit on the defensive with that comment, so I would also like to hear him explain it.

Does IceGuy think Ecto is scum for '

finding somebody to lynch instead of finding scum

', or could a Townie also do such?

[mutantdevle]

Did you actually just seriously give a read on the mod

Yes. The forum where I come from scum reads tend to include an analysis of both the mod (often referred to as the god of the game) and yourself. The reads mostly consist of jokes with the read about yourself almost always claiming to be dodgy in some way.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Mutant

He says we should lynch whoever seems least useful at the end of a long pointless early reads list which seems designed to

look

useful.

Not only does this seem contrived, it's also a terrible strategy - scum have more motivation than Town to look as though they are useful for their very survival is of most importance to them.

I do not believe the reads are pointless. In my opinion, the most common times people make scum slips and tells is either when they are under pressure or early in the game. I think first impressions are often useful and it is always good to get them out in case you are killed at night. That way, you at least have the confirmed opinions of someone who is confirmed town instead of guessing at what their posts mean. And I don't mean to WIFOM the situation here but if trying to seem helpful is a thing that scum tend to do then why as scum would I do that if it makes me look like scum? Long reads is something that I, and many of the people I have played with in the past, do often. If you would like some links of previous games I have played as evidence of this meta then I would be happy to provide them. But basically, regardless of my allignment or role, I will almost always post these types of reads fairly frequently and will continue to do so here.

Elmo TeH AzN - Her posts are short and brief which isn't too useful. I don't think there is anything scummy about her, but due to her lack of meaningful contribution, I would be willing to lynch them day 1.

We have 12 Days to deadline. Bravo

And if your current rate and quality of posting remains consistent then that would mean you have little to offer. I'd also like to reiterate that if I seem to want to rush things or think people aren't posting regularly enough then it is because I am more used to 72 hour days. 336 hours days is a huge leap from that for me.

I’m now slightly paranoid that my three town reads are actually the scum team. :/

Fear not, for that is not the case. ("But that's something he would say if he was a part of that scum team!")

Nice job dodging the question

yeah, I have a reason. Not gonna push it until I've seen more from them, but it wasn't just random.

I don't understand why you feel you'd have anything to cause you to hold out on such a trivial read at this point in the game.


@Transcend: I don't really like the way you seem resistant to cooperating with the town. To me, that's either a scum tell or the play of a bad townie. Niether of which is very helpful for the town.

[mutantdevle]

I can also see that coming from a different mafia culture is going to cause me a few problems here and there. But hopefully I will adjust to this culture fairly quickly.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I’m now slightly paranoid that my three town reads are actually the scum team. :/

I dislike this however I still like my vote.