Mafiascum.net

pagetop

never pl in this setup

In post 148, Sky_Paladin wrote:Could you please break down for me why you're tr Sheep/Tora, as far as I can see:
Sheep - a bunch of trivial townreads, including a reversed read on Diamond and yourself in the space of a few hours, mainly pagetop empty spam posts, and meta-type posts (posting relationship chart, dice psuedo vote).
Tora - No real...posts? The samurai avatar does make me want to inherently trust it.

The most thing this slot seems to have is a townread on your slot.

I'm mainly interested in why you are townreading this slot and if there's something I've missed.

I developed this read on page 2 and have no reason to change my mind. No offence intended at all, but in line with my strategy, I especially have no reason to change my mind based on talking to you about the read, because you might be scum subtly influencing me. But to explain further:

In post 19, sheepsaysmeep wrote:i support claiming lovers
tl from diamond

In post 25, Toranaga wrote:random lynch GOAT

also I'm lovers with someone I forgot which makes me lock town

also never lynching amrochora even if she is a wolf

In post 26, Toranaga wrote:

In post 14, LlamaFluff wrote:

sheepsaysmeep replaces jzhenson93

ah ok it was literally this guy

hi sheep

I straight up believe this shit at face value. That's really it. Seems unfaked to me. Also seems like both of them buddying up to my slot early on (not lynching Amro even if she's a wolf, ) has low utility as scum because that kind of thing would just make their slot scummy in a normal game. Might make people draw connections to my slot, or might make people think they're intentionally trying to make my slot look scummy. Either way, gets them lynched. Scum is self-conscious.

I absolutely see the low-effortness and critiques of their play. In every way, their slot comes across to me as VI town. I think they both started townreaded me mostly because I townread them (bad reason, they're clearly not used to dealing with super good scum).

This actually plays into my strategy. By sheeping this slot all game, I'm effectively saying that their scumhunting abilities are equivalent to a completely random lynch (sorrynotsorry).

In post 152, Mathdino wrote:I think they both started townreaded me mostly because I townread them (bad reason, they're clearly not used to dealing with super good scum).

nope i am gud at dis game

just remembered tor is ufo lol

Okay but this is kinda stupid. I stopped reading around page 5. I may get back to it later. Idk. Seems interesting but not in the mood.

Look, there are 2 possibilities that will stem from this conversation. Either we will or we will not choose from rolling dice. If we do roll with dice, then Dino rolls a fucking die and we take our chances. There's another possibility that we won't. Then what? We'd have all these days lost over fucking math. I may have failed pre-calculus, but I understand this much: if we don't do the dice, then all of this is for nothing, and we start from square 1. So please, let's wrap this up. People have made up their minds so Hot damn. I can't process all of these numbers. Honestly, I'd rather die than have to sit through this. If we just put this to a vote, we end this and can move on with the game.

Also, idgaf what he says. I find this very WIFOM. If I was smart in math like that, I'd do that regardless of role. There's nothing to lose from it imo. I don't scum read him for it because I feel any role could pull this off. If he's scum and is the one to roll, and he excludes himself, he only has to avoid 2 people to be lynched, and those are good odds. If he's town, then the odds apply better for town. Idk, I could be wrong on how this works. All I know is that this needs to end.

Please vote on this issue.

I

yo im the one rolling

In post 157, sheepsaysmeep wrote:yo im the one rolling

I'm sorry, but I don't care if Jack the Ripper himself is coming back from the dead and rolling. I just want to play mafia not Economics Wonderland

cy is town
poe is the best approach to this setup

sring diamond

In post 156, cytheflyguy wrote:This is a game of majority rules. The minority has to bend the will to the majority. Whoever wins will decide how this game will be played and we can move on.

I'm gonna stop you right there. The anti-dice-rolling faction already won. At this point it's an egofight. Some are scumreading me because they think my plan is anti-town. I'm proving that it's not.

My personal plan right now is to sheep someone whose scumhunting abilities I consider equal to the scumhunting abilities of a dice roll. I find this an effective compromise. Hopefully the guy I'm sheeping also manages to actually drive a lynch. We'll see I guess.

You guys can do what you will. If you want me to pretend I'm playing a normal game, I can do that when you ask. Notice that during that time a few of us have actually come up with reads.

In post 156, cytheflyguy wrote:Also, idgaf what he says. I find this very WIFOM. If I was smart in math like that, I'd do that regardless of role. There's nothing to lose from it imo. I don't scum read him for it because I feel any role could pull this off. If he's scum and is the one to roll, and he excludes himself, he only has to avoid 2 people to be lynched, and those are good odds. If he's town, then the odds apply better for town.

This is a smart take on the matter, and you're either scum or a much better townie than sheep/Tora. I'm not actually sure if I'd do this as scum (it's kinda hard for me to think that way), but the only reason I would ever do this as scum is to gain mad towncred on the basis of me always being the setup-breaking guy.

I would point out that I'm suggesting that someone OTHER than me "rolls the dice" so-to-speak (like I said I consider their vote about as good as a dice roll). This only benefits scum-me mathematically if and only if I'm scum with sheep/Tora. If you're afraid of that specific situation, paranoia away. If not, I think that one point is moot.

I'd ask you for reads but I'm not actually interested. So I'm just gonna point out player-to-player that you're kinda being hypocritical by complaining more about the random lynch discussion when
A. I personally have moved on from the dream of a truly random lynch
B. You haven't given reads, while sheep and I have.
I'm not saying it's alignment indicative of you but I do think you should put your money where your mouth is

In post 158, cytheflyguy wrote:

In post 157, sheepsaysmeep wrote:yo im the one rolling

I'm sorry, but I don't care if Jack the Ripper himself is coming back from the dead and rolling. I just want to play mafia not Economics Wonderland

This is a fucking hilarious quote, and I for one would love if Jack the Ripper came back from the dead and rolled us into Economics Wonderland
I might sig this post-game.

In post 159, sheepsaysmeep wrote:cy is town
poe is the best approach to this setup

In post 160, sheepsaysmeep wrote:sring diamond

Both your reads are bad since their posts aren't really alignment indicative. But whatever, if you change your vote, I'll grudgingly follow, seems equally arbitrary to me.

Oh shit I forgot to say the most important thing.

This is a game of majority rules. The minority has to bend the will to the majority. Whoever wins will decide how this game will be played and we can move on.

.

You can argue that mafia is, by principle, a majority rules game all you want. But you have to accept that that MASSIVELY hurts town in this setup, as the presence of scum makes it HIGHLY unlikely that majority actually lynches scum. And remember that scum MUST vote against any random proposal where a non-scumfuck is rolling the dice, because they'd likely lose otherwise. That's in addition to the townies who just don't like the idea. So your side already won this.

I have an inherent distrust of any majorities that form in this setup because of the high volume of scum. If you wanna take a stab at being a better scumhunter than literally every other town that's ever played this setup, just remember to take that into account. .

In post 161, Mathdino wrote:
I'd ask you for reads but I'm not actually interested. So I'm just gonna point out player-to-player that you're kinda being hypocritical by complaining more about the random lynch discussion when
A. I personally have moved on from the dream of a truly random lynch
B. You haven't given reads, while sheep and I have.
I'm not saying it's alignment indicative of you but I do think you should put your money where your mouth is

Regarding what you said, I can accept that because I can accept poe. I told you that I stoped reading at page 5. I wasn't joking. That's why I didn't see it as over. I honestly didn't read much after I saw a bunch of math signs. I'll come back with reads later, but my argument was less "pro reads" nor "anti math" but more "move on with the damn game". I do agree that reads are important, but that's not the core of my argument. Also, if I'm not mistaken, you only placed townreads, which kinda takes away from the heart of what reads are as they have both town and scum reads. I'm not saying anything is bad about you as a player, but if we're not gonna do the dice thing, let's just move on. There's no point belaboring it.

In response to 162, I will remind you that what you quoted is directly related to the "let's move on" argument, which isn't for or against either side in it's core. I am against your argument, yes, but that's not what my argument that you quoted from was about. That being said, I do agree that scum can influence the majority, which is why I counterargue a point you made that we should let this happen and let people talk. Yes, there are alignments that we all have because each of us has a partner, but because scum has another set that they have to protect at all cost, if we can prod around and get a feel, we will know how pairs will react to other pairs. It's not fool proof, no, but if we can incorporate that with poe, we can see out of this limited pool who reacts to what pair and which pairs are most likely to work together. That and usual scum hunting. You do that better with more information given. You said so yourself that you're a good LyLo player because there's more information to go off of. Isn't this the same thing minus flips?

I could be wrong, but there are other options that don't rely on slightly better odds than a coin flip.

But side note as I step away from my in-game frustration, I would fucking love to be in your post game sig haha.

Alright, then I understand your position (though I unfortunately can't outright townread you for it).

In theory, I agree with you. In practice, towns are shit at scumhunting in this setup because of a couple good scum strategies (one is in the wiki, the others I'm not sharing unless it seems really necessary to later on) that effectively nullify the usual associations. I don't take myself to be a significantly better scumhunter than every previous town that's tried, and even if I am, the chance that I can actually push a lynch on a correct scumread is super-low due to scum influence over the state of the discussion. If every lover pair votes together, it requires to agree on a scumlynch for it to work. Even if a scum joins the scum wagon (as they should to not make obvious associations), it still requires a huge number of townies to agree.

I'm a good LyLo player because my playstyle is to make shitty reads early on, cause inevitable mislynches, and then solve the whole game. Flips and actually reaching the lynch (and the hammerer) are important. In this game, we'll only ever have one flip. That's not enough.

I'll lay out my criterion. In order for me to agree with a non-arbitrary lynch, or agree to lynching based on scumhunting, you'll have to propose some kind of strategy now or later on that is clearly and significantly better than the scumhunting strategies of every previous town. If we do this the normal way, scum will almost certainly win. That's been proven.

Let's go!
I want mathdino to roll the dice who agrees

In post 165, RedFlavor wrote:Let's go!
I want mathdino to roll the dice who agrees

At least this has brought life to this topic.

Hm, idk how to feel about the slots here. Despite what I said about MathDino, I actually have a slight townlean on him. I mean I do WIFOM, but that just leads to circular logic I don't have enough of anything to conclude (and note, when I did say that something felt WIFOM, I was talking more about his strategy and not the player himself). The main reason I don't town read him fuller is because of how much he defended his proposal. Like I felt that was a bit extra and it raises a slight red flag but I won't think much of it.

Honestly, I'd like to hear why Sheep townreads me.

And...I'm not sure what to think of RedFlavor's last post. Like I think we established we're not doing that. I'm gonna chalk that up to NAI since it's only one posts but idk.

Dimond only exclusively posted in regards towards MathDino. Because I still feel argument is WIFOM, I'm null on his slot. Same with his partner. Honestly same with the rest of the game because I don't see much content from anyone's ISO.

Amrochora and BigFinn deadass haven't posted and are long past in need for a prod.

We only are at page 7 after all these days, y'all. Let's generate content.

A lot of the previous pages are all maths and the idea of random lynching, I don't want to cipher through all of that tbh.

I don't think it's a bad idea from Math though, and I don't see scum suggesting that knowing that there is a small chance it could roll onto them.

I think BigFinn may be replaced, I think he's site flaked.

Activity is abysmal.

Based on nothing in particular (PoE and lack of a townread), Kop/BigFinn is likely to be a scum pair. I was townreading the lack of activity from their slot because scum likes to complain about absent partners, but if Finn totally siteflaked it's not like mod could've/would've done much.

RedFlavor is probably joking. If he's being serious, is either town or scum actively posturing as much as possible since I kept being like "SCUM WOULD NEVER AGREE WITH MY IDEA" when the idea actually had a possibility of happening.

Yawn.

Can we speedlynch someone yet?

Also idk townreading me and my ideas without openly agreeing to some variation of it (like avoiding scumhunting through a speedlynch) is a really nice way to try to get off my radar without helping me do the actual thing that helps town.

So there's that. But what the fuck do I know, I'm purposefully sheeping the most VI slot I can find. Sheep me guys, I know what I'm talkin about.

In post 168, Mathdino wrote: Yawn.

improper grammar ew

In post 170, sheepsaysmeep wrote:

In post 168, Mathdino wrote: Yawn.

improper grammar ew

Got any ideas, chief?

tldr all the walls for me thx

I'm not sure helping you scumhunt is actually pro-town cuz scumhunting is scummy.

But whatever if it helps get the game going, gimme a second

tyty