Open 715 - White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[AnonymousGhost]

I understand. Don't like it, but I understand.

[GreyICE]

@Almost50:

You're echoing my thoughts. I was actually avoiding posting recently because you asked me not to post, and there's people who STILL haven't responded. I mean geriatric game, restricted posting capacity, yadda yadda, but I'd like to expect more than a post every fortnight. Alchemist has been sitting with a vote on him for ages, and Pine's case to lynch him is "why the hell not"? Like if you or AG were scum, I'd be fine handing the game to you, because FUCK this lurk stuff.

@Quick Maker:

If that was a strawman, good job. If it wasn't though, you need to grasp the difference between "bad reasoning" and "shallow reasoning".

Shallow Reasoning

Almost50 also has a tendency to confirm people as absolutely Town which again fits into your point that Town should want to reevaluate players and Almost50 doesn't seem to want to do that and even suggests that others should trust their reads, even without evidence. This in itself is, I would say, slightly scummy as, while it is certainly consistent with very biased Town it is more likely with scum that want to seem like they have more legitimate reasons than they actually do. If scum Almost50 wants to rule someone out right now and later they want that person lynched, they can explain that they changed their mind. If they don't want that person lynched later, they can refer back to this. They can use this current method to essentially have it both ways.

Okay, now lets parse this borderline-unreadable paragraph for a second (is Titus one of your heads? Because fuckchrist the word to content ratio is painfully high):

Nonsense Decoded

Almost50 posts townreads without giving reasons. This is scummy.

Like holy shit man, that's awful. That's shallow, surface level, trivial shit. It's exactly what I'd expect a scum-hydra with a "reasoning" gimmick to post when they were forced to make fake scum reads.

And that was your better day 1 vote.

The NotMafia vote was:

I think Not_Mafia's play is unacceptable and impossible to read. Therefore:

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Now lets get on to what gives you away as scum, and why I'd happily drive home a wagon on you any time, any day:

After ISOing Flubber, Alch, and Shad, I kinda want to switch my vote to Flubber. Alch I have no read on - they haven't done too much that is actually AI. Shad I like for Town. I can follow their thought process and they are making pushes I can see coming from Town. They seem to push as a form of Scum hunting. They seem to like to put pressure on people and see how people react. This is a pretty Townie way to play and because I can read their play as such, I'm inclined to think they have Towns best interest in mind with what they are going after. They have also make a few good points (can't remember what they were exactly considering I ISO'd these players as soon as I made my last post).

I know how Flubber plays as Scum given I shared a Scum Chat with him at one point. He tries to make sure that his progression on players makes sense. This is his biggest downfall though because he does little to actually change his reads much as Scum because he wants a consistent narrative. I also saw their recent questioning of Fitz as fake Scum hunting considering he didn't have his facts straight when he questioned him. I know Flubber to be a bit more on the ball than that as Town so I think this adds another reason for SRing Flubber. The biggest tell that tells me Flubber is Scum though is that as Scum he come across as incredibly stale and out of touch with what Town is doing. I don't see anything that really resonates with me in terms of what Flubber is saying and that is a sign he has ulterior motives in his perspective of viewing the game. Also, his over gusto with the points he is making is well within his Scum range and he is typically a lot more level headed as Town.

I know it's very hard to trust a meta read simply by a description alone, but if anyone else has any meta on Flubber I encourage you to look at your past games you have played with him to see if what I am saying matches up with what I am saying about him. I think he has a pretty obvious Scum game and I am pretty sure this is it.

Lets translate that, and I'll show why this is shallow shit:

Bullshit translated

Flubbernugget doesn't change his reads much, because as scum he likes having a consistent narrative. He also didn't have his facts straight when questioned, which is an inconsistent narrative. Flubber is also out of touch, stale, and shows too much passion. If he were town he'd be less passionate.

Seriously, just look at that. Read the translation, read the original, realize they're the same thing. Fucking shitballs.

Now lets break down a longer post, 796:

HavingFitz is a townread because he's antagonizing us rather than buddying us, and I think as scum he'd buddy us.

We concocted a genius plan to pretend to buddy MOI and see if he noticed. We can't draw many conclusions from it. We think MOI has a weak case on HavingFitz, because the scumslip is weaksauce, and MOI is lining up lynches. I'd put down a vote, but

I want to talk to quick.

Post 849: Hi, quick here!

Maker wants me to ISO COA and AG.

WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO MOI?

Seriously man, you say "I want to talk to Quick about MOI" and 100 posts later, Quick doesn't even remember that? Are you two really talking? Or is this theater?

[GreyICE]

Now on the other hand, as scum. Man. I would not like to lead a wagon on town-MOI. That would not be a mislynch I'd want to try for at all.

[Alchemist21]

I think Fitz is the one I want to vote most right now. I think NM is Town but Fitz's dynamic with him and QM is giving me scumvibes.

@Alchemist - Checked your ISO and found this.

At the time, what about Fitz's interactions with QM gave you scum vibes? I looked over your notes, but you didn't mention QM anywhere in relation to Fitz and instead focused on Fitz's interactions with NM.

Skim Edit

: NVM. Found your reasoning for the interaction between QM & Fitz in 541.

What is your impression of QM now? You stopped mentioning him as the Fitz wagon gained traction on D3 and you've never mentioned him in relation to Fitz since then.

As of now, unsure. Before the Fitz flip I thought QM was Town because his wagon sprang up and I never saw anyone on that wagon give an actual reason for the wagon, leading me to believe scum were involved with it.

[Alchemist21]

You've tunneled on Alchemist for almost the entire game thus far, show me your case against him. And no, you can't just have your D1 case alone. Show me your progression on him from D2 and D3 and maybe how D4 his posts thus far - if any - could be contributing to your suspicion on him.

I mean, I could show you my D1 case and it would still be completely valid, if not more valid given the time passed between now and then. He's the definition of coasting scum. I have yet to see real scumhunting or sorting from his slot.

That literally hasn't changed since Day one.

Also: can I just bring back up the point that Russian Roulette, the night one kill, called directly for Alchemist's lynch at the start of the next day? And everyone just seemed to ignore it and write it off as "obvious WIFOM"... for some reason.

Do you have some sort of issue with my scumread on Alchemist? I get that feeling from your tone, but I'm not sure why, given that (from what I understand), you're also scumreading him.

Perhaps you missed where I actually did a critical analysis on Not-Mafia to figure he was Town. Perhaps you missed my whole interaction with Fitz when I started scumreading him. Perhaps you missed where I realized I was lacking scumreads so I decided to look at my Townreads and form a PoE pool. Or perhaps you're just scum trying to get me lynched. That last one feels likely to me.

[Quick Maker]

You are giving very bad "translations" that seem to miss the point.

It wasn't just that Almost50 was giving Townreads without giving reasons. It was that Almost50 appeared to completely confirm people as Town and then expected us to trust their read, questioning us for not doing so, without giving reasons. That was left out of your translation. Given that Quick made the post on Flubbernugget (I was V/LA) they would probably be in a better position to explain what you have left out of the translation.

WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO MOI?

The flip.

[Alchemist21]

Hunh. I was going to do this anyway, but your wish is my command, A50.

VOTE: Alchemist

I'm prepared to bet the game here. It was a shit joint anyway (no offense to mod).

Well Pine just made this easier for everyone.

VOTE: Pine

[Alchemist21]

Oh there won't be a quickhammer on this vote, one way or another.

In fact I'm tempted to vote Pine right now. I think he understands which way the wind is blowing. As I said, I'm curious whether bus or just an attempt to win today.

Don't say anymore please. Thank you.

Why would you not want him to say more?

[Alchemist21]

@AG: I'm talking. You're talking. Grey's talking. Where the freak is everyone else? Ok, CoA showed up and Pine is voting Alch, so where are Alch & QM? I want then here and talking to us too before I give my updated thoughts.

P-edit: YES! That is a good post from QM, and it I can now share my thoughts.

At least one

of Pine/Alch is confirmed to be scum. Possibly both, but I'm talking 100%.

As Grey had predicted -although I didn't like him saying it out loud so fast- Alch isn't hammered, which means both Pine and Alch cannot be Town (otherwise the 3 scums would have piled up on the wagon to end game).

Town!Pine would not have voted Alch still in this case, regardless of Alch's alignment. Assuming Pine is town and is 95% sure Alch is scum still leaves a 5% chance of a quick hammer.

Scum!Pine is more likely to vote Town!Alch here, hoping one townie will join him (and 3 have already expressed will to vote Alch) so the other 2 scums can finish it off.

But it's also fairly likely that Scum!Pine would vote Scum!Alch for a final distancing maneuver, and especially so when I had pointed out the strange behaviour of FoSing but never voting.

If either of the two flips the other is likely to be cleared in the minds of he masses (at least that's how Pine was hoping for it to go).

The fact that nobody else had joined he wagon tells me the 3rd scum is waiting to see how it goes to decide on whether to join the bus or start a counter wagon.

In sum, Pine is 100% Scum now, and Alch is 80-85% his partner.

P.S. Tell you the truth? I had thought of verifying my thoughts by voting Alch myself to see if 2 others will hop on it, but I chickened. I mean, it felt like exploring a gas container with a lit match stick to see if there's a leak. If I', wrong about Alch it could've very well blown in my face.

If anyone doesn't understand what I', saying let me know and I will try to rephrase the case better.

I know self-meta isn't worth much, but I will tell you that I don't bus at Lylo as scum and definitely wouldn't bus in a White Flag lylo.

[GreyICE]

@QM: Almost50 questioned people who had reads that disagreed with his. The horror. If you mean otherwise, feel free to quote and make your points in an intelligible manner. And you're saying that your MOI reread was derailed by... what? The flubbernugget mislynch you were on? So you let it take a backseat so he could push the Havingfitz mislynch in peace? So much derailed you never even mention it again and never did it?

Yeah you be scum, my dudes. You logic posters get fucked when I actually bother to read your shit and realize it makes no sense.

Really, really tempted to vote Pine. If I assume that Almost50 is town (which feels almost certain) and AQ is town (less certain, but I trust her tone and play) then I'm down to 1 in 4 as town, and boy Bellaphant was doing so very very little.

[GreyICE]

Alright, FUCK IT. Inbetween dropping a fucking vote in LyLo with ONE SENTENCE of garbage, Pine has had time to make 50 posts stretching over two days, hours of time on site documented in his post history: search.php?author_id=15398&sr=posts

If he's town IDGAF. Yell at me in the post game.

Vote: Pine

[GreyICE]

Is this possibly wrong? Yes.
Is it possible Almost50 or AQ is scum? Yes.
Is it possible that all the inactive lurkers are the town and everyone I've been talking to is a scumbutt? Yes.
If that's the case, how does the town win anyway?

Almost50 and AQ talk to each other all the time. If that's scum theater, then well played to them. Well played.


Is it possible the scumteam is QuickMaker/Alchemist21/COA? Sure. Why the fuck not. I don't think it is.

Alchemist's self-meta is completely null, Alchemist wouldn't be LyLo bussing here, Pine would.

[Quick Maker]

@QM: Almost50 questioned people who had reads that disagreed with his. The horror. If you mean otherwise, feel free to quote and make your points in an intelligible manner. And you're saying that your MOI reread was derailed by... what? The flubbernugget mislynch you were on? So you let it take a backseat so he could push the Havingfitz mislynch in peace? So much derailed you never even mention it again and never did it?

Yeah you be scum, my dudes. You logic posters get fucked when I actually bother to read your shit and realize it makes no sense.

Really, really tempted to vote Pine. If I assume that Almost50 is town (which feels almost certain) and AQ is town (less certain, but I trust her tone and play) then I'm down to 1 in 4 as town, and boy Bellaphant was doing so very very little.

@Quick: Did you not take note when I said N_M actually town-told? Ir do you not trust in my ability to read him?

Going back through my reads I realized I could actually write off CoA as well. (Check why I TR'd him in the first place). That's 3 players I have already dashed out completely, which is even better than I would have ever expected on D1.

This, to us, seemed to go beyond just questioning. The implication here is that Almost50 expected everyone to take note and trust the Townread, while not giving any reasons, essentially making an appeal to authority and then expecting everyone to follow it.

And for the MoI reread, that was because MoI was killed and flipped Town. There was no reason to give a case on MoI after they flipped.

[GreyICE]

Uh, QM, I'd like you to note something for a second:

I think Not_Mafia's play is unacceptable and

impossible to read

. Therefore:

VOTE: Not_Mafia

@Quick: Did you not take note when I said N_M actually town-told? Ir do you not trust in my ability to read him?

Going back through my reads I realized I could actually write off CoA as well. (Check why I TR'd him in the first place). That's 3 players I have already dashed out completely, which is even better than I would have ever expected on D1.

This is called directly responding to you. Holy shit, he talked DIRECTLY to you and I'm expected to believe you scumread him for that?

QM: "No one can know NM's alignment, he's impossible to read!"
Almost50: "Uh, actually NM town-told and I know his alignment. Did you read where I said that?"
QM: "Almost50 is scummy for telling us they can read NM's alignment!"

And if I check Almost50's ISO, I get this!

That was the best reaction to Dino's wall, tbh. I'd TR N_M for that vote if it wasn't for this specific setup. Maybe a Town lean nevertheless.

So not only was Almost50 directly responding to your case, Almost50

had posted a reason for the read, in direct contradiction of what you said.

As for the other, yep. Dangers of ISO reading noted, my bad.

I'm going to save some posts for the rest of the day, but shit man. Shit. Look at what you've done here, if you're town, then this was not a good look for you.

[Quick Maker]

I myself don't quite think "impossible to read" was the best phrasing, but the main point was that Not_Mafia was deliberately playing in a completely unacceptable way that prevented us from reading them.

"Or do you not trust my ability to read them" seems to imply that, by default, we should. At least, that is how we interpreted it at the time.

I think we saw that but didn't count it as a reason because no explanation was given as to why the vote was a Towntell. If no explanation is given then it would be possible to take any vote and declare it a Towntell or a scumtell regardless of whether it really is.

[GreyICE]

See, here's the thing. That's post hoc reasoning, because you never asked Almost50 what was so townie about the vote at the time. Like AQ, she has a question like that, she tosses it out.

Also,

Unvote

I can't shake the feeling from the way you're posting that you're fishing for a buddy to vote so you can hammer. What, no comment on a 2 vote wagon in LyLo and you want to argue about your shitty Almost50 vote? Why do I just not see that as compelling?

[Pine]

Shit

That's a Town!Grey post

Okay, Alch, Anon, and Quick, then?

[AnonymousGhost]

@Alchemist

As of now, unsure. Before the Fitz flip I thought QM was Town because his wagon sprang up and I never saw anyone on that wagon give an actual reason for the wagon, leading me to believe scum were involved with it.

ISO'd the Mod. Here's what I found - Listing the ones where the QM either gained or lost someone:

Day One:

Quick Maker (1):

Korina

Quick Maker (3):

Korina

,

Not_Mafia

,

havingfitz

Quick Maker (1):

havingfitz

Day Two:

Quick Maker (2):

Flubbernugget

,

Not_Mafia

Quick Maker (3):

Flubbernugget

,

Not_Mafia

,

havingfitz

Quick Maker (3):

havingfitz

, Almost50,

Flubbernugget

Quick Maker (1): Almost50

Day Three:

Quick Maker (1):

havingfitz

This is the quick skim ISO of all the living players who showed support for a QM wagon based off of memory alone - which, I think, would currently include A50, Pine, and Grey:

@N_M: Quick isn't an option today, my friend.

I still have 6 suspects so still many possibilities, but I've marked Flubber and Quick as unlikely scum (individual slots.. each is unlikely scum) on D1

Quick Maker - Neutral

QM looks Town to me.

QM must be Town here, regardless of Havingfitz flip.

Scum!QM would not want to tie themselves to Scum!fitz when the later is the most likely (and appears to be the ONLY viable) lynch today.
Scum!QM would not be trying that hard to defend Town!fitz, and especially so when fitz is trying to lynch them.

Unsure as to why Quick would not vote me given we have less than a week left before deadline. There are no other viable non-Having wagons and Quick has idled their vote all day.

Hmmm ....

Yup

So far I want to lynch Alchemist 121, Quick Maker, and Bellephant.

Kinda what I expected. My final prognostication is Having / Grey / Anon. Because scum Quick would have already hammered Town Having long ago if he was scum with Pine and Alchemist21.

Almost feel free to question Grey or just hammer scum Having.

^This

Quick Maker: This hydra has been shit all game. The Korina read in 76 was vulture circling the weak if I've ever seen it, and the Not_Mafia policy case in 284 was downright awful. 407 was a bad vote too, and then vote 608 felt contrived and vapid. It's like, QM is always certain to provide lots of text for their shitty vote, but it still remains a shitty vote. I'll break down the Flubbernugget vote to show what I mean.

He starts out by saying Flubbernugget makes sure his reads progress logically as scum. While that's a statement, what's the inverse? His reads proceed illogically as town? I think not. Similarly he says Flubber rarely changes his reads as scum, but what? He does as town? I think not. It's just shoddy reasoning that doesn't actually say anything. Finally he says Flubber's reads are "out of touch with the town" which on day 2 isn't a very meaningful statement either. It's just a lazy case that doesn't mean jack shit, lots of sound and fury, but no significance to the words. It's like he typed up a long post to justify the vote because he knew it would be come back to, but nothing in the post means crap. Extremely tempted to vote here.

Okay, Alch, Anon, and Quick, then?

Conclusions: A50 shows a thought progression on QM that demonstrates a willingness to game solve and reevaluate, Grey's argument shows a nuance of thought that also shows a willingness to game solve, but Pine does a 180 on his QM town read from yesterday that's most likely based on PoE from today? The latter is hard to tell because he hasn't shown his thought process like the other two and continues his pattern of piggy backing onto a louder player's arguments - i.e. Grey - that he started at the end of D3 - i.e. MoI.

@QM - Are there any other living players who've shown support for your lynch that I'm missing?

[GreyICE]

Shit

That's a Town!Grey post

Okay, Alch, Anon, and Quick, then?

I'd still like you to make a proper case, but they managed to buy you the time to do so at least. This is neutral thanks to their actions.

So here's a game for people will balls of titanium and a large amount of willingness to be screamed at in the post: gambit in LyLo! Recipe:

- Message the mod to see if the scum have daytalk (they don't, by the by)
- Throw down a vote 2 on a wagon
- See who starts posting irrelevant crap. Three posts in a single day from a hydra that never posts? Gee.

Reason: Scum need to have two scum online to quickhammer. So if you haven't coordinated a time like "every day we'll be online and x-o'clock to quickhammer" (I refuse to believe the scumteam approaches that level of organization in operation lurkaderp) you have to fish for a vote by making a post when you think your buddy might be there to hammer. And wow, QM had some pretty high online presence yesterday, and I'd love for people to check when the last time was they made three posts in a day, especially about meaningless crap.

Also yeah I could have extended this gambit to get more evidence, but it's a stupid enough idea to begin with.

Almost50, AQ, where your heads at?

[Pine]

VOTE: QuickMaker

Grey, we're on the same page here.

You're going to just need to trust me. I'm Town here, and have derped from one wrong read to the next. I've been suspecting your slot from the start, but especially with your meta, I don't see scum!you backpedaling and reconsidering like you have in LYLO.

I'm thinking our scum here may be largely in the low-efforts, which is how they've avoided suspicion.

I was pretty resigned to losing when Fitz flipped, but I think you and I can actually solve this. I am officially betting the game on you being Town now, same as I did with MoI.

[GreyICE]

Then lets move the vote back to alchemist. There was NO movement to coordinate a hammer on alchemist either way, and I haven't discarded a bus. Like Almost did want me to stop commenting, but wow, everyone's reaction to that vote was "yeah the quickhammer possibilities here is absolute zero"

[GreyICE]

Like... if everyone was wrong about that, wow, being wrong at this juncture is going to be catastrophic for us.

[Pine]

Fair.

VOTE: Alchemist

[Quick Maker]

Spoiler: Grey's big post

@Almost50:

You're echoing my thoughts. I was actually avoiding posting recently because you asked me not to post, and there's people who STILL haven't responded. I mean geriatric game, restricted posting capacity, yadda yadda, but I'd like to expect more than a post every fortnight. Alchemist has been sitting with a vote on him for ages, and Pine's case to lynch him is "why the hell not"? Like if you or AG were scum, I'd be fine handing the game to you, because FUCK this lurk stuff.

@Quick Maker:

If that was a strawman, good job. If it wasn't though, you need to grasp the difference between "bad reasoning" and "shallow reasoning".

Shallow Reasoning

Almost50 also has a tendency to confirm people as absolutely Town which again fits into your point that Town should want to reevaluate players and Almost50 doesn't seem to want to do that and even suggests that others should trust their reads, even without evidence. This in itself is, I would say, slightly scummy as, while it is certainly consistent with very biased Town it is more likely with scum that want to seem like they have more legitimate reasons than they actually do. If scum Almost50 wants to rule someone out right now and later they want that person lynched, they can explain that they changed their mind. If they don't want that person lynched later, they can refer back to this. They can use this current method to essentially have it both ways.

Okay, now lets parse this borderline-unreadable paragraph for a second (is Titus one of your heads? Because fuckchrist the word to content ratio is painfully high):

Nonsense Decoded

Almost50 posts townreads without giving reasons. This is scummy.

Like holy shit man, that's awful. That's shallow, surface level, trivial shit. It's exactly what I'd expect a scum-hydra with a "reasoning" gimmick to post when they were forced to make fake scum reads.

And that was your better day 1 vote.

The NotMafia vote was:

I think Not_Mafia's play is unacceptable and impossible to read. Therefore:

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Now lets get on to what gives you away as scum, and why I'd happily drive home a wagon on you any time, any day:

After ISOing Flubber, Alch, and Shad, I kinda want to switch my vote to Flubber. Alch I have no read on - they haven't done too much that is actually AI. Shad I like for Town. I can follow their thought process and they are making pushes I can see coming from Town. They seem to push as a form of Scum hunting. They seem to like to put pressure on people and see how people react. This is a pretty Townie way to play and because I can read their play as such, I'm inclined to think they have Towns best interest in mind with what they are going after. They have also make a few good points (can't remember what they were exactly considering I ISO'd these players as soon as I made my last post).

I know how Flubber plays as Scum given I shared a Scum Chat with him at one point. He tries to make sure that his progression on players makes sense. This is his biggest downfall though because he does little to actually change his reads much as Scum because he wants a consistent narrative. I also saw their recent questioning of Fitz as fake Scum hunting considering he didn't have his facts straight when he questioned him. I know Flubber to be a bit more on the ball than that as Town so I think this adds another reason for SRing Flubber. The biggest tell that tells me Flubber is Scum though is that as Scum he come across as incredibly stale and out of touch with what Town is doing. I don't see anything that really resonates with me in terms of what Flubber is saying and that is a sign he has ulterior motives in his perspective of viewing the game. Also, his over gusto with the points he is making is well within his Scum range and he is typically a lot more level headed as Town.

I know it's very hard to trust a meta read simply by a description alone, but if anyone else has any meta on Flubber I encourage you to look at your past games you have played with him to see if what I am saying matches up with what I am saying about him. I think he has a pretty obvious Scum game and I am pretty sure this is it.

Lets translate that, and I'll show why this is shallow shit:

Bullshit translated

Flubbernugget doesn't change his reads much, because as scum he likes having a consistent narrative. He also didn't have his facts straight when questioned, which is an inconsistent narrative. Flubber is also out of touch, stale, and shows too much passion. If he were town he'd be less passionate.

Seriously, just look at that. Read the translation, read the original, realize they're the same thing. Fucking shitballs.

Now lets break down a longer post, 796:

HavingFitz is a townread because he's antagonizing us rather than buddying us, and I think as scum he'd buddy us.

We concocted a genius plan to pretend to buddy MOI and see if he noticed. We can't draw many conclusions from it. We think MOI has a weak case on HavingFitz, because the scumslip is weaksauce, and MOI is lining up lynches. I'd put down a vote, but

I want to talk to quick.

Post 849: Hi, quick here!

Maker wants me to ISO COA and AG.

WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO MOI?

Seriously man, you say "I want to talk to Quick about MOI" and 100 posts later, Quick doesn't even remember that? Are you two really talking? Or is this theater?

I honestly do not really know what your gripe with me is here... Is it Scummy to be "wordy"? If so, Why? I am functioning a LOT differently due to being in this hydra which you should be able to gather given ~raisins~. I have been open about operating differently due to being in this hydra since the beginning of the game.

What happened is that before EoD was over, Maker asked me if we should vote for MoI. I said at that point that I was debating sheeping AG onto CoA. Since Day ended before I could really sus out my read on CoA, Maker then asked if I would ISO CoA and AG during NP.

Some things you are ignoring in your translation of my read on Flubber are things such as my sharing a PT with Flubber when we were Scum together. When we were Scum together, he explicitly said that he likes to keep a consistent narrative as Scum, that is where that read comes from. Then, because I noticed the same kind of play from him in this game, it lead me to thinking he was doing the same thing here. You don't get the full story saying it the way you have said it, and in fact, there are things I omitted to make my read on Flubber to be more to the point. In short, what you are doing, is slighting on context, which IME is very important. If I would have just said what you had as an interpretation there, there is little if any chance that Flubber ends up as the lynch. Context is pretty damn important.

I am playing in more than just this game... Given I am approaching this game worlds differently than I normally would (partially because this game is Geriatric and partly because I am playing with Maker who generally doesn't post with much frequency), that would be the reason I "haven't gotten back to you in 100 posts." I am giving this game much less constant attention than I normally would and I don't even check in on the game every day I don't think.

~Quick

[Almost50]

Almost50, AQ, where your heads at?

Frankly, I'm still having a hard time accepting the possibility of Scum!QM. If they were scum, what was that they did around the fitz wagon? I mean, the wagon was there, but was far from being the one and only option for the day. QM kept defending fitz and dismantling every case made on him.

Furthermore, even on D1 Dino had them as his 4th or 5th suspects. If they're scum then they killed Dino to implicate Alch, which means Alch is Town. But if that's the case, then how come he wasn't hammered when he had both Pine and your vote on him?

So, Scum!QM isn't exactly easy for me to swallow still. I maybe naive, but it's much easier to picture Alch+Pine as scum together than any other given pairing in the game based on that Pine vote on Alch alone.

P.S. It also makes sense to shoot N_M

if scum had considered things could come to this

. Knowing N_M he would have probably voted Alch putting him @L-1 sometime, which would have confirmed Alch as scum because the other option would have been got you + Pine + N_M to be scum together for Alch not getting hammered.

But even I feel that this is farfetched enough to imagine. I mean, it's borderline Titus' moonlogic.