Open 717: C9++ [GAME OVER:TOWN WINS]

[TheGoldenParadox]

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[pinturicchio]

Wait, there was a dead thread?

[TheGoldenParadox]

... sh*t
i forgot to send people links and either they asked me or I sent it wayyyyyyy after
I'm so sorry Pin

[TheGoldenParadox]

I sincerely apologize to all of you. As a first time mod, there were some errors that I made. None of them were gamebreaking, but they may have decreased the overall playing experience. I ended up being incredibly busy and so didn't have the most timely votecount schedule, I forgot to send most people links to the dead thread and so got asked, I send prods like 12 hours after they were due (however to your congratulations there was only ONE PROD and NO REPLACEMENTS needed this game, which was incredible. In spite of my errors, I enjoyed watching this game, and I hope you enjoyed playing it too.

[Myloninja13]

This was... an interesting experience.

Overall very fun though, even if I didn't really play until day 4 and got Nked lol. Although tbh, I think I would've actually considered Kop not being scum until he voted for me day 4.

[UnaBombaH]

No worries GoldenParadox, your modding was OK all the way!
Your self-criticism is on point, I'd say, but you were never inaccurate or away at the time of need. I think that's most important!

Thanks for the game, and hope to see you soon in other queues!

[pinturicchio]

... sh*t
i forgot to send people links and either they asked me or I sent it wayyyyyyy after
I'm so sorry Pin

Hahahaha relax and cut yourself some slack, you did nothing to apologize

[pinturicchio]

I can't believe town won after the clusterfuck JJD began, thanks for that! Ugly did a great job on D4, absolute carry of this game.

I roleblocked OK Nyeo twice thinking that he was the SK

[Hoopla]

And we would have gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling

kids

cops...

[pinturicchio]

what do you mean

I'll cut to the chase. Stop wasting your precious vote on the confirmed town slot, no matter how right it feels, and team up with ol' Hoopla and jump on the gamma wagon. Or I don't mind switching to milo.

Lets get this game going.

I already like you, birthday cake.

[Ok Nyeo]

GG everyone, and thanks TGP for hosting.
Scum kind of get relaxed because of 3 ML's and did not distance enough. But you guys were good.

[Hoopla]

For real tho, well played town. We collectively took a risk in not distancing enough as a team, which ended up tying us together too much once a guilty was discovered. The spontaneous combustion of our team on D4 (when a win seemed locked up) was truly a thing of beauty.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I can't believe town won after the clusterfuck JJD began, thanks for that! Ugly did a great job on D4, absolute carry of this game.

I roleblocked OK Nyeo twice thinking that he was the SK

It was bc of me the game got that easy. Think of me as a Town Vig who took care of all the questionable slots, leaving you guys to pick between black & white.

[Hoopla]

Good hustle from Una, fighting all the way to the bitter end despite the pile of evidence mounting up. That's what I like to see in my scumteams.

[Myloninja13]

I can't believe town won after the clusterfuck JJD began, thanks for that! Ugly did a great job on D4, absolute carry of this game.

I roleblocked OK Nyeo twice thinking that he was the SK

It was bc of me the game got that easy. Think of me as a Town Vig who took care of all the questionable slots, leaving you guys to pick between black & white.

But... you only got rid of two questionable slots, yourself and Frederick. Every town member aside from possibly Laser had significant suspicion going into day 4.

[pinturicchio]

@Myloninja don't lose your time, he fucked up hard and I want to believe he's trolling now, because if he really think he helped... Well

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I can't believe town won after the clusterfuck JJD began, thanks for that! Ugly did a great job on D4, absolute carry of this game.

I roleblocked OK Nyeo twice thinking that he was the SK

It was bc of me the game got that easy. Think of me as a Town Vig who took care of all the questionable slots, leaving you guys to pick between black & white.

But... you only got rid of two questionable slots, yourself and Frederick. Every town member aside from possibly Laser had significant suspicion going into day 4.

I also hammered Sesq and didn't protect the crazy IC, and I kept the Mafia off UglyDuck to get his result. Ugly's play though won the game for real. Once he got the guilty he worked out the partners and drove the lynch on the one he didn't actually have a guilty on. UD certainly the hero here.

[Myloninja13]

But... But...

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@Pintu: You're a bitter "winner". If I did fuck up, then how come the Mafia clowns (who kept calling me stupid and a clown myself) still lost? They thought I did them a favour, and were pretty sure they won the game and even "felt sorry for the Town".

@Mafia: How does it feel to have lost to a clown? Or rather, to a team that had a clown in it?

I can't believe people are whining instead of celebrating their win. If you don't understand just shut up and cheer for victory.

P.S. And NOBODY is talking about the most obvious mistakes you all did on D1: NOT FUCKING LYNCHING KOP WHEN HE CLAIMED A VT.

This was actually what triggered all subsequent incidents by me. I argued we should be lynching Kop still, and that would have flipped him as the GF, which would have given us more info as well as given UG certainty about his results from then on (not that he needed it, but it was THE RIGHT PLAY).

Bottom line: we won. If you like it, great. If you don't, suck it.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

UD + MyLo played well after I got rid of the distractions.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

And yes, that includes myself.

[pinturicchio]

Who's whining? You're ridiculous

[UnaBombaH]

Guys..

To make something clear: JJD is CORRECT in saying that town should've lynched Kop D1. (Not just because of the would-be end result - I think it was an objectively correct thing to do for town, once he had claimed VT.)
I still think JJDs fakeclaim/-guilty were stupid, but then again, you could always argue that the only thing that matters is the end-result. You guys won, congrats on that.
BUT.

WHAT I DO WANT TO STRESS HOWEVER - AND THIS IS THE PART I MUST'VE SEEMINGLY GOT SALTY ABOUT - IS THAT TOWN GOT VERY LAZY IN THE END.

There was no logic whatsoever in the decisions you guys made in LyLo-situations. And before you get annoyed, please read what I have to say.

Like, no matter what you guys said, there was almost an equal amount of arguments to be made for town!Kop as there were for scum!Ugly. More than for the actual reality.
There was no transparent discussion, no gamesolving in posts quoting or analyzing wagons. You just had this thought stuck in your head that Kop is guaranteed scum.
Secondly, all you guys did that day (in the end), was follow a cops guilty.

A cop who claimed in LyLo.

You got the correct lynch there by trusting him, but realize something:

UGLY ADMITTED TO HAVE FAKED HIS RESULT BEFORE HOOPLA FLIPPED.

Yet you all handled him as a "confirmed" cop the next day,

EVEN THOUGH HE ADMITTED TO NOT HAVING HAD A GUILTY IN THE END.

Like, stop for a moment to chew this.
And there were signs for theoretical scum!Ugly bussing Hoopla D4, simply based on HOW and WHEN he claimed.
I tried to point this out, but none of you even gave it a second thought (it seems).
Furthermore: Ugly didn't even try to counter any of my arguments.
If I were to have been town this game, I actually would've replaced out of this game simply because almost no one listened to reason or interacted openly in LyLo.

THIS WILL LOSE YOU MOST OF YOUR TOWNGAMES IN LYLO-SITUATIONS.

That is because the nature of this game is for scum to create misdirection and try to kill everyone who even TRIES to make sense.
And everytime town arrives into a LyLo, you need to understand that everyone who is still alive at that point, is alive for a reason.
Often it's one of three: They are scum, their reads/gameplay has sucked sufficiently to pose no threat to scum, or they are more easily mislynched.

TLDR:

Very rarely a cop who claims a guilty in a 7 player LyLo, AND CHANGES THEIR RESULT ONCE MORE BEFORE THE FLIP, is actually town and "automatically" wins you guys the game.
If you want it to happen occasionally though, keep playing setups like these.

[Gamma Emerald]

Guys..

To make something clear: JJD is CORRECT in saying that town should've lynched Kop D1. (Not just because of the would-be end result - I think it was an objectively correct thing to do for town, once he had claimed VT.)
I still think JJDs fakeclaim/-guilty were stupid, but then again, you could always argue that the only thing that matters is the end-result. You guys won, congrats on that.
BUT.

WHAT I DO WANT TO STRESS HOWEVER - AND THIS IS THE PART I MUST'VE SEEMINGLY GOT SALTY ABOUT - IS THAT TOWN GOT VERY LAZY IN THE END.

There was no logic whatsoever in the decisions you guys made in LyLo-situations. And before you get annoyed, please read what I have to say.

Like, no matter what you guys said, there was almost an equal amount of arguments to be made for town!Kop as there were for scum!Ugly. More than for the actual reality.
There was no transparent discussion, no gamesolving in posts quoting or analyzing wagons. You just had this thought stuck in your head that Kop is guaranteed scum.
Secondly, all you guys did that day (in the end), was follow a cops guilty.

A cop who claimed in LyLo.

You got the correct lynch there by trusting him, but realize something:

UGLY ADMITTED TO HAVE FAKED HIS RESULT BEFORE HOOPLA FLIPPED.

Yet you all handled him as a "confirmed" cop the next day,

EVEN THOUGH HE ADMITTED TO NOT HAVING HAD A GUILTY IN THE END.

Like, stop for a moment to chew this.
And there were signs for theoretical scum!Ugly bussing Hoopla D4, simply based on HOW and WHEN he claimed.
I tried to point this out, but none of you even gave it a second thought (it seems).
Furthermore: Ugly didn't even try to counter any of my arguments.
If I were to have been town this game, I actually would've replaced out of this game simply because almost no one listened to reason or interacted openly in LyLo.

THIS WILL LOSE YOU MOST OF YOUR TOWNGAMES IN LYLO-SITUATIONS.

That is because the nature of this game is for scum to create misdirection and try to kill everyone who even TRIES to make sense.
And everytime town arrives into a LyLo, you need to understand that everyone who is still alive at that point, is alive for a reason.
Often it's one of three: They are scum, their reads/gameplay has sucked sufficiently to pose no threat to scum, or they are more easily mislynched.

TLDR:

Very rarely a cop who claims a guilty in a 7 player LyLo, AND CHANGES THEIR RESULT ONCE MORE BEFORE THE FLIP, is actually town and "automatically" wins you guys the game.
If you want it to happen occasionally though, keep playing setups like these.

#majorleaguesalt
dude you lost, hard. You got guiltied, then Ugly was able to find Hoopla out by association only, then instead of lynching the guilty which was already pretty proven by team blocking, town lynched the consensus scumread that was correct and fully nailed you as scum. All that after a f*cking stupid d1 hammer (as I said Sesq was f*cking lynchbait, I know because I have f*cking experience with her) and a dumb as sh*t cop fakeclaim (though given who it is, which I'll keep secret but is funny as f*ck to me, is kinda sensible) that derailed the next few days, and you have a scumteam that given town's performance was pretty bad to have lost.
A note about that shift of the guiltied person at the end: that actually probably helped UglyDuck's longevity. By still having a living guilty, it made killing Ugly a bad idea because it validated the guilty.
But yeah, be careful with LyLo guilties. They can easily be faked.

--

[Ok Nyeo]

@ugly I did not give care about cop's guilty because I was already scumreading hoopla, you and kop

Ugly's cop play is not unbelievable after doctor's fakeclaim