Open 720: NOIR (GAME OVER)

[havingfitz]

I think this set up is a bit town sided.

I'm not sure what turned town's suspicions/PL thirst away from Not_Mafia...but once he was no longer consider a lynch candidate scum's prospects really improved.

The fact the hider could not definitively tell he had cleared anyone due to potentially being blocked (other than the circumstances where he was able to clear Oxy) kind of diluted his power a bit. We came really close to killing Oxy the night pintu hid behind him.

Good job bringing the win home for scum NM.

Thanks for modding Math.

[Sando]

I think this set up is a bit town sided.

Honestly felt that way, I was sitting there D3 feeling like I'd gamesolved and had absolutely no right to do so after town had mislynched twice and had the detective killed. That might be due to me actively trying Math's Townhunt strat and it just being that powerful, but I don't think (I know) I'm that good and it felt like scum were winning handedly and then had the game taken away with a single clear and some lucky PR allocations.

I think Math's change to the jailer is 100% the right call, and certainly makes the tracker/vig decision a bit harder for that person, but it'll further unbalance the game I think. Might need some changes elsewhere to help scum.

[the worst]

I like the fact it's townsided on the surface but considering the inconclusiveness of results, TPRs are in equal parts valuable and WIFOM

Tracker following hider this game was lucky as hell and we still lost
Detective/psych can guilty vigilante
Without tracker backup or flipped JK hider doesn't know if their results can be trusted


We had a reasonably lucky town game and still lost. This isn't an explicitly town sided setup IMO

[Mathdino]

can i point out how lol it was that scum saved pintu on N1 and then shot pintu right after

yeah i think it's objectively slightly townsided

but winrates for hard boiled were still about half and half tipping slightly toward the town

basically, MS is bad, and MS being bad lowkey balances it

[Sando]

We had a reasonably lucky town game and still lost. This isn't an explicitly town sided setup IMO

I think the only piece of luck we explicitly got was Pintu being the NK target and therefore knowing his result, and being jailed instead of killed behind you N1. First one is town lucky, but dying N1 behind what was a fairly random scumkill who was the detective would have been super unlucky for town.

As is, with a single clear the game was effectively solved D3 despite 2 mislynches and the most powerful PR being dead N1.

There was some other luck (JJ being the PR meant the gamesolve went from 80% to 100%), but overall I don't feel town was particularly lucky.

[Mathdino]

Honestly felt that way, I was sitting there D3 feeling like I'd gamesolved and had absolutely no right to do so after town had mislynched twice and had the detective killed. That might be due to me actively trying Math's Townhunt strat and it just being that powerful, but I don't think (I know) I'm that good and it felt like scum were winning handedly and then had the game taken away with a single clear and some lucky PR allocations.

yeah hella shout out to everyone who basically correctly sheeped MOMOMEN's read on Quick despite clearly individually wanting to scumread him

your gamesolve did basically rely on MOMOMEN/Quick being super obvtown and happening to roll VT

remember that 2 slots that were in the PoE pool, pintu and jjh, both happened to turn up PR, which was fantastic and put the game in the bag

there was a decent chance they'd have gotten lynched as VTs

[the worst]

Hmm that's fair ig

I'd argue hider trumps detective in terms of usefulness but fair

[Sando]

yeah hella shout out to everyone who basically correctly sheeped MOMOMEN's read on Quick despite clearly individually wanting to scumread him

your gamesolve did basically rely on MOMOMEN/Quick being super obvtown and happening to roll VT

remember that 2 slots that were in the PoE pool, pintu and jjh, both happened to turn up PR, which was fantastic and put the game in the bag

there was a decent chance they'd have gotten lynched as VTs

I wasn't sheeping Mom on that I don't think, I think I may have even been calling Quick town prior to swap in maybe?

The 100% gamesolve did rely on the tracker being in the lynchpool. But if say Mom was tracker and followed the pre-CC plan, NM was outed as jailer and scum would have had to make the leap of faith to allow Pintu to die behind the jailer to have any hope at that point. Even if you ignore that, the pool was 3 scum in 5, which my math says is 80% town-win, but I could very well be doing that math wrong.

Yeah if say Mom was tracker and Quick hider, the plan probably wouldn't have existed, my brain is struggling with what-ifs right now

[Korina]

Wooo, gg maf.
Sorry I flaked out, I had to focus on school and work and like every day when I checked thread, you guys posted like 13+ pages, and considering I would be out for 48 hours, I couldn’t read / play the game.

Also, jfc you guys talk a fucking lot, like omfg

[Mathdino]

this was an unusually long game for the open forum

[Sando]

Sorry, that was at least in part a deliberate ploy by me, I wanted to see what would happen if scum were forced to keep up with 2 townie slots in my and duckling just smashing out the day. I was expecting scum to active-lurk and basically post as little as possible but try and appear caught up and engaged, while town would basically classically lurk and not contribute much. For a variety of reasons it was a poor strategy in this game and I only caught town, sorry!

[the worst]

You seemed like you were running out of puff by EOD1 too hahaha. Damn us hyperactive Aussie townies.

My N1 invest was basically like "if he's scum he's doing the NK 100% of the time and IDK who else to check"

[Korina]

For me, worst?

Also, if I wanted to play a blitz game, i’d have signed up for one, smh

[the worst]

no, Sando
you had no puff at the start of d1

the pace was pretty impressive, I was so happy to be here when I was alive >;

[mutantdevle]

NGL ducky the hyper posting was probably why I chose you from the list of people NM gave me. I wanted rid of the excessive pages just as much as the lurking townies :3

[the worst]

I'm not learning any lessons from that I'm just gonna throw down a sassy ascii emoji and strut out

╭∩╮(-_-)╭∩╮

[Korina]

Tbh, I could’ve gotten away with lurking while worst was alive, but I wanted to look townie, and jfc, you posted too much worst.

[the worst]

Permission to respond candidly Korina?

[Korina]

Idgaf, lol.

I was honestly scared i would’ve been lynched d1 too

[the worst]

I was clearly not vibing the townreads on you and if you lurked hard whilst I was alive I would have probably lockjaw scumread you. You replacing out was the best thing you could have done for your team since you couldn't keep up.

Also probably not gonna take playstyle feedback from you here doggy (@mutant, as an aside I actually really do appreciate your feedback unironically).

I had two endgame VTs pinned as obvtown in {Quick, MOMO}. After I died the level of activity in the game dropped dramatically which resulted in not only a town loss but one of my obvtown reads being the final lynch. Me/Sando et al had one scum and zero townies worn out. Mutant did a very very good job of hiding his frustration and playing along. And also I was the N1 scum kill, lol.

Definitely a fair critique of my PR game, and I'll take it from NM/Mutant or even Fitz. I categorically hate having to stay alive as town especially. But after your play this game jumping in with "you post too much" kinda rubbed me the wrong way.

/end rant

[Mathdino]

I once strongman nightkilled a super spammy d1 ellibereth (who was trying to look useless d1 so he'd survive to gamesolve d2)
Just to shut him up because i couldn't keep up with the game
The strongman also erased all his posts and all mentions of him from the game

I knew nothing about his reputation at the time and it turned out like 2 or 3 protective targeted him for being ellibereth xD

[the worst]

LOL that is fantastic
my PR play decisively needs work

[Sando]

But after your play this game jumping in with "you post too much" kinda rubbed me the wrong way.

I don't think you posted too much, especially in context. You seem to be a "keep up" kinda guy, and I think lurking whilst I was pulling my shenanigans would have sent up an even bigger flag. PRs are hard to play, easy to direct imo, but then that's specifically my strong-point, so I try to avoid criticising PRs for their playstyle or choices of what to do, at least until I can start giving input as VT in game.

[Korina]

Tbh, you shouldn’t take my feedback, rofl.
The “you post too much” is sorta the salty, semi-serious post from me.

I barely read the game while I was alive, and didn’t read after I replaced out.
Hell, I didn’t realize Math added me to the dead pt after my replaceout, rofl.

[Korina]

Anyways, like, serious notes here:
My town/scum meta is literally night and day, I'm not joking.

You wouldn't be wrong to lockscum me just because I'm lurking a lot.
Out of all the 20ish games (I'd have to check my all sites sheet / update it later), that I played from the start, I've gotten scum in like 3 of them. All of them, (exception of 14F on ToS forums), I lurked hardcore I think.
14F was an interesting game for me as scum because I was townie, then threw it away, lol.

Anyways, but yea, like, my town games, I'm very vocal and active. I may not post a lot of game-related stuff, but I do make posts, while as scum, I just lurk a lot. (Micro 785 really shows that). I do agree that me replacing out was the best thing I could've done for my team, minus getting bussed d1.

I probably shouldn't say this, but, knowing my scumpull luck, it won't hurt, a really good way of telling if I'm town or scum trying to look like I'm town is look at how stupid what I'm doing is, how much I seem to be caring about if it backfires or not, and if I seem like I know for a fact I won't be NK'd.

If what I'm doing is really stupid, I don't seem to give a fuck if it horribly backfires and I don't seem to know I will

not

be nk'd, I'm most likely town. There's an odd 1% I'm not, but I'm most likely vt. My irl mafia meta also really does say that if I do something horribly stupid and I don't seem to give a fuck what'll happen because of it, I'm literally am a vt.

That's the other major thing about scumreading me, is like, if I really just don't seem to give a fuck about what I'm doing, I'm honestly am most likely town. If I'm scum, I'm trying to copy that carefreeness of my town meta, but, if it seems like I genuinely don't give a fuck about what I'm doing, I'm most likely town.
Then again as well, I've never really gotten a PR pull, so, my scum/pr meta could actually be identical, but... eh.

Also, inb4 I get scum in like the next 5 games I play just because I said this.

VT: Active, (although may not post relevant game stuff), care-free, laid-back, joking around, trying at times, not really caring about gamesolving.
PR: Hell if I know.
Scum: Not active, trying to mimic a care-free, laid-back personality, very serious and determined at gamesolving.

Like I said, my town/scum metas are obviously different.

Oh well, I'm just... I'm gonna walk away now from this post lol