Open 761: Grey Flag Nightless - [It's over!]

[geometry]

Also as scum

Ank doesn't know that an anonymous alt which just so happens to be chennisden is going to hard read her as town so she can't try to get away with literally offering herself up

so either a lot of things are going on or she's just TOWN

Plus, we literally never lose to her if she's scum purely because of her predecessor's associative possibilities.

[geometry]

Why am I doing this.

We probably already won anyways.

[geometry]

We only lose if both Shoshin and Ircher are scum.

Which is basically never

[geometry]

Chemist -> Voted -> {Ank, Buj} -> Ircher

Presumably he decides "Ank" later.

[geometry]

Bitmap has requested to be replaced. Searching for a replacement for Bitmap.

I also really think Bitmap gave up when he saw Voted slot obvtown.

[chennisden]

Town Pool:
{me, Shoshin, RC}

Null Pool:
{Ircher}

Null lean scum:
{Buj}

Scum Pool:
{Chemist, Voted, Abu, Datisi}

love how he puts 4 in scum

all he has to do is mental gymnastics his way to getting Buj/Ircher to switch

[chennisden]

I thought he did.

Not like super detailed though. It'd be a nice parting gift if he really does get killed.

tmi

[NotAJumbleOfNumbers]

A lynch has been achieved.

Votecount 2.4

(0) Shoshin:
(1) Chemist1422: Bitmap
(0) geometry:
(1) Ankamius: Chemist1422
(4) (

LYNCH

) NerfedBuJ: Ircher, geometry, Shoshin, Ankamius
(0) Bitmap:
(0) Ircher:

(1) Not Voting: NerfedBuJ

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

NerfedBuJ is lynched. He was a

Vengeful Mafioso

.
With only 1 mafia alive, the remaining

mafia

, Bitmap, is endgamed.
The

town

, consisting of Shoshin, Chemist, geometry, Ankamius, RadiantCowbells, and Ircher win!

[chennisden]

I KNEW IT. I TOLD ALL OF YOU GUYS.

[chennisden]

Let me fucking flex

[RadiantCowbells]

umm

if anyone gets to flex here

<--

[chennisden]

I'm not counting this btw

I didn't do anything to change the outcome

[chennisden]

umm

if anyone gets to flex here

<--

i mean, for datisi/buj yeah

you carried

[chennisden]

you're the reason why town won.

[chennisden]

but i am going to feel good i called bitmap.

[chennisden]

(and every other slot)

[RadiantCowbells]

it was really obvious that buj was the other scum, even ignoring the tell that i was reading datisi/buj as buddies from, based on the fact that NO ONE was trying to get him lynched. someone would have been making that mislynch happen if he was town

[NotAJumbleOfNumbers]

Mod zone
Scum zone
Dead zone

first town win for grey flag yaaaaay

[NotAJumbleOfNumbers]

also the entire thing didn't go up in flames yaaaaay

[chennisden]

Spoiler: flex

It was datisi.. though considering I forgot the slot I'm not so sure anymore.

See what I wrote in blue for how I feel about this post.

VOTE: Voted

How about we don't disarm town of its only weapon.

NerfedBuj tries to start a wagon on Voted and if they've played together even once Buj should know that wagoning Voted isn't productive to town agenda most of the time.

I dunno Shoshin. Do you really think that Buj makes the post he does regarding jealousy of my female attention as town? I really can't see it.
I think it makes a decent amount of sense from the position of scum with Datisi. Not in terms of being a 'good post', but something I can see scum posting.

All of that was just joking. The attention thing was really just a comment on how people play differently just because you're in a game and it's frustrating to sort. They don't play mafia they play "hey RC is here let's see what he does". I didn't expect it to happen in page 1 but you have chemist saying hi only to you and datisi giving you a permanent homage in her signature.

I think you have a totally warped sense of how people treat you in games. You always talk about how it's so bad and boo hoo this or that but from what I've seen in the past like 5 games together people are usually scrambling about and climbing on top of each other to townread or pocket you because of your name alone.

Why people can't wait until you actually post content is beyond me.

Buj goes for the general discredit on RC when it's a specific point that he should answer instead.

Bonus points because Buj knows that his points actually are right, and uses that to cover the fact that his interactions with RC aren't relevant or helpful.

I prefer lobbies where everyone self motivates themselves to play because they want to win the game but ok

VOTE: DATISI

Has she played games with you on MS?

I can't see any difference between her and other lurkers

This isn't genuine. It's quite obvious based on their interactions that RC and Datisi have played together.

My impression of NerfedBuj is that this game is him trying to 1) defend Datisi from the wagon on her until she/someone else arrives to actually take the slot and presumably get it some town credit and 2) prepare to not look as bad when the slot does flip scum. The way he's been treating this slot indicates that he wanted to avoid the flip if possible but also wanted to minimize his losses by being vague. And that's why I think he's being vague in general; to try and cover up his associatives with Datisi. Datisi's ISO is devoid of associatives except for two posts, which don't deserve to be hyperanalyzed just yet.

I'm about go to sleep - my unpopular scumread is Bitmap and my popular one is Buj

We can sort Buj first but I think Bitmap has scum equity.

TL;DR: Chemist is not too far off his town meta, but he's still in my bottom half of reads. If half of his posts are "sorry I'm inactive" that's town-indicative of him.

I no longer disagree that Chemist's ISO is underwhelming, but I still disagree that he should be the

automatic

lynch today.

But my goodness, this is harder than trying to hyperanalyze Datisi's ISO.

I'm using Open 755 for meta comparisons because Shoshin and NerfedBuj (in a hydra) were in there, and his town meta that game seemed similar to him.

Shoshin, I'd appreciate a quick summary of your thoughts on Chemist as well to see if I'm off base here.

Spoiler: Chemist

RVS-Stages

Open 761: Boo, I am a ghost.
Open 755: Justifies RVS by saying it's RVS.

People's early thoughts on Chemist

Regardless of the game, people seem to expect Chemist not to play.

Chemist, this game is as good as any to break out of that bad habit and actually post and spew yourself town, if you are. And if you're scum I don't think you're performing well either; most of the reason you're being let off the hook to some extent is because of low standards.

When he's about to be lynched

Open 761: Haven't hit that point yet.

This time, please don't force us to lynch you before you play.

Open 755: He gives reads and plays in a way that make his slot worth reconsidering when it is far too late. At this point, Shoshin already said that Chemist was town and tried to stop the wagon. However at this point, pretty much nobody reconsiders his slot because "boo apathy" and stuff.

So a summary of my thoughts on Chemist:

I don't think Chemist should be apathy or policy lynched for his play today.

He's a player who is difficult to make play using pressure. He is going to give reads without a lot of effort. (All of his correct reads, which were all of them except for Shoshin, were all "null" or "slight." Given that where literally only chennisden misread her (remember PP was scum) and he completely did a 180 when Shoshin mainrevealed while Chemist never reconsidered, I think that this should be taken into account when looking at his readlist, which conveniently avoids Shoshin.)

However, if the wagon/lynch ends up being not motivated by policy/apathy in regards to reading Chemist's slot, and people still want to lynch him after a more thorough examination of his slot, I will support that as there are more scumsigns than usual.

His posts are way worse than Buj. At least Buj is trying.

partner

Ank is also kind of obv town.

So.

Scum in your position either

(a) gives up or
(b) tries to discredit or look for an easy mislynch

You giving up looks much different.

You're not going for Chemist right now. (If Buj was town I don't think anyone could really tell the difference between an apathy vote and scum jumping on, so your vote there is mostly irrelevant. Also, he's basically guiltied scum.)

You've done the exact opposite of discrediting me - you called me obv town before I alt slipped in this game. Which you as scum shouldn't really ever do.

You've advocated following RC's lynchlist, which kind of always loses scum the game.

(And if you're scum, you still lose anyway, so.)

I just need you and Ircher to step back and look at this objectively.

This turns a 99% win into a 100% win.

This setup is really townsided, we got a scum lynch D1, and we have a ton of associatives to look for

[chennisden]

It was datisi.. though considering I forgot the slot I'm not so sure anymore.

See what I wrote in blue for how I feel about this post.

VOTE: Voted

How about we don't disarm town of its only weapon.

NerfedBuj tries to start a wagon on Voted and if they've played together even once Buj should know that wagoning Voted isn't productive to town agenda most of the time.

I dunno Shoshin. Do you really think that Buj makes the post he does regarding jealousy of my female attention as town? I really can't see it.
I think it makes a decent amount of sense from the position of scum with Datisi. Not in terms of being a 'good post', but something I can see scum posting.

All of that was just joking. The attention thing was really just a comment on how people play differently just because you're in a game and it's frustrating to sort. They don't play mafia they play "hey RC is here let's see what he does". I didn't expect it to happen in page 1 but you have chemist saying hi only to you and datisi giving you a permanent homage in her signature.

I think you have a totally warped sense of how people treat you in games. You always talk about how it's so bad and boo hoo this or that but from what I've seen in the past like 5 games together people are usually scrambling about and climbing on top of each other to townread or pocket you because of your name alone.

Why people can't wait until you actually post content is beyond me.

Buj goes for the general discredit on RC when it's a specific point that he should answer instead.

Bonus points because Buj knows that his points actually are right, and uses that to cover the fact that his interactions with RC aren't relevant or helpful.

I prefer lobbies where everyone self motivates themselves to play because they want to win the game but ok

VOTE: DATISI

Has she played games with you on MS?

I can't see any difference between her and other lurkers

This isn't genuine. It's quite obvious based on their interactions that RC and Datisi have played together.

My impression of NerfedBuj is that this game is him trying to 1) defend Datisi from the wagon on her until she/someone else arrives to actually take the slot and presumably get it some town credit and 2) prepare to not look as bad when the slot does flip scum. The way he's been treating this slot indicates that he wanted to avoid the flip if possible but also wanted to minimize his losses by being vague. And that's why I think he's being vague in general; to try and cover up his associatives with Datisi. Datisi's ISO is devoid of associatives except for two posts, which don't deserve to be hyperanalyzed just yet.

I'm about go to sleep - my unpopular scumread is Bitmap and my popular one is Buj

We can sort Buj first but I think Bitmap has scum equity.

TL;DR: Chemist is not too far off his town meta, but he's still in my bottom half of reads. If half of his posts are "sorry I'm inactive" that's town-indicative of him.

I no longer disagree that Chemist's ISO is underwhelming, but I still disagree that he should be the

automatic

lynch today.

But my goodness, this is harder than trying to hyperanalyze Datisi's ISO.

I'm using Open 755 for meta comparisons because Shoshin and NerfedBuj (in a hydra) were in there, and his town meta that game seemed similar to him.

Shoshin, I'd appreciate a quick summary of your thoughts on Chemist as well to see if I'm off base here.

Spoiler: Chemist

RVS-Stages

Open 761: Boo, I am a ghost.
Open 755: Justifies RVS by saying it's RVS.

People's early thoughts on Chemist

Regardless of the game, people seem to expect Chemist not to play.

Chemist, this game is as good as any to break out of that bad habit and actually post and spew yourself town, if you are. And if you're scum I don't think you're performing well either; most of the reason you're being let off the hook to some extent is because of low standards.

When he's about to be lynched

Open 761: Haven't hit that point yet.

This time, please don't force us to lynch you before you play.

Open 755: He gives reads and plays in a way that make his slot worth reconsidering when it is far too late. At this point, Shoshin already said that Chemist was town and tried to stop the wagon. However at this point, pretty much nobody reconsiders his slot because "boo apathy" and stuff.

So a summary of my thoughts on Chemist:

I don't think Chemist should be apathy or policy lynched for his play today.

He's a player who is difficult to make play using pressure. He is going to give reads without a lot of effort. (All of his correct reads, which were all of them except for Shoshin, were all "null" or "slight." Given that where literally only chennisden misread her (remember PP was scum) and he completely did a 180 when Shoshin mainrevealed while Chemist never reconsidered, I think that this should be taken into account when looking at his readlist, which conveniently avoids Shoshin.)

However, if the wagon/lynch ends up being not motivated by policy/apathy in regards to reading Chemist's slot, and people still want to lynch him after a more thorough examination of his slot, I will support that as there are more scumsigns than usual.

His posts are way worse than Buj. At least Buj is trying.

partner

Ank is also kind of obv town.

So.

Scum in your position either

(a) gives up or
(b) tries to discredit or look for an easy mislynch

You giving up looks much different.

You're not going for Chemist right now. (If Buj was town I don't think anyone could really tell the difference between an apathy vote and scum jumping on, so your vote there is mostly irrelevant. Also, he's basically guiltied scum.)

You've done the exact opposite of discrediting me - you called me obv town before I alt slipped in this game. Which you as scum shouldn't really ever do.

You've advocated following RC's lynchlist, which kind of always loses scum the game.

(And if you're scum, you still lose anyway, so.)

I just need you and Ircher to step back and look at this objectively.

This turns a 99% win into a 100% win.

This setup is really townsided, we got a scum lynch D1, and we have a ton of associatives to look for

[/quote]
so spoilers dont even work w/ quotes

die

[chennisden]

here's the issue with grey flag

d1 scum lynch is an auto town win

d1 town lynch is a very likely scumwin

[chennisden]

it was really obvious that buj was the other scum, even ignoring the tell that i was reading datisi/buj as buddies from, based on the fact that NO ONE was trying to get him lynched. someone would have been making that mislynch happen if he was town

it was.

bitmap also became obv scum because he had no other choice but to defend.

[RadiantCowbells]

buj you can claim caught for the wrong reasons as scum all you want but your interaction with datisi was super super scum indicative and you never did anything to deserve a townread.
i really don't think i did any RL stuff in this game, you may feel differently, and the only time I brought RL into FOTM was regarding a situation that I don't regret bringing it up, so.

i feel like you're just salty that I caught you and are trying to make excuses for it. also, I do win most of my games

[RadiantCowbells]

also all my reads that weren't buj/datisi were based off of how hard people were hard defending the bujaber slot. it's unfortunate that the people hard defending him and giving no reasons were town.