mini 2013: the chorus of i'll call b4 i cum mafia (all done)

[Azurit]

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Azurit]

@profii Do you have any reasons why the post from Ruby was scummy or did you random vote?
@Ruby Red Why did you relate a number to your own nickname?
@Dunnestral If you have to choose someone else who is proparbly town - whom would you take? Why do you only say something about game rules, but not about anything that happens inside the game?

[Azurit]

And why don't you try to make anything happen?

[Azurit]

I’m voting for not making the game any more complicated than it needs to be

So no particular scum reason

Did anyone note that number vote was for una ?

Makes sense.
Yes, I did notice it, but don't know what to do with this information. Do you have some thoughts about this vote?

I noted that he voted Una, yes. But I don't know what to do with this information. Do you have some thoughts about it? Why did you ask this question?

And why don't you try to make anything happen?

There’s been a handful of posts, you’re coming across awfully LAMIST rn

Intresting. Why don't you vote me?

[Azurit]

@LuchyOtter Depends on how you define a random vote. There is an obv reason why I choose Dunnstral and not someone else, but it is a very smal reason and I would not vote him outside rvs.

[Azurit]

"There is an obv reason why I choose Dunnstral"
It actually isn't obvious to me.

Dunnstral has written posts with zero content -> he hids his alignment and in case of scum!dunnstral you'll get not a bit of informations about his teammates. Town should even be more intrested in getting things started.

Everyone. I promise I'm not mafia. Who believes me?

Scum dont ignore me

Seems like Kokichi!town trys to bait scum. I can explain my thoughts more accuratly, if anybody is intrested.
-> slight town read on Kokichi

VOTE: profii

Interaction between profii and azurit seemed a little contrived to me, but I won't go too hard on that. Random voting for being bad dog.

towny

I don't agree.

[Azurit]

1. Kokichi isn't "baiting scum" he's just his normal self

2. The whole post assumes mafia are primates basically

3. The reasoning she gave for voting me i "writing posts with zero content" and then fabricating a reason that's scummy (it's not by the way, and this is in the first 2 pages anyway)

1. Maybe he's not, I have never played with Kokichi before. But I'm new to this mafia forum and don't know anyone else than Una. So I have to find a way to estimate the algnment of unknown players.

2. No, it just assumes scum players have other goals than townies.

3. You can still explain your town motivation to writhe zero content posts, maybe I just did not understand it. The reaction from profii tells me that your behavior is common, even if you don't play newbie games... but I don't understand why.

-------
My thoughts about Kokichi:

First of all: I think everybody agrees, that Kokichi wants to bait someone / get informations.
Second: Does he have a plan behind his statements? To me it seems like he just try to get any reaction to create informations, no matter what specific reaction. I don't know for sure wheter I am right here, but I think it is very likely, that I am right here.
Third point: what does this mean for his alignment?
Well, I think it is more likely that town!Kokichi acts like this, because town just want to get ANY informations. He can later find out what to do with the reactions, but there are at least some reactions which can be helpfull so it is an good idea to make this move.
Scum!Kokichi can try to bait a townie and make them look scummie... but in this case you need a plan how you can bait a townie. You are not able to do something and wait until someone clears themself.
A further point is, that many scum player want to have the control about what is going to happen (how other people think about them for exampel). There are much more townies, who just write things down without any self-awarness than scum players doing that.

Things I don't know is, wheter Kokichi expects someone to town read him, if he writes something like this. Or he is one of the minority, that baits other peoples

without a plan

, even if he is scum.
That's why it is only a slight town read. But I think I am going to notice my mistake in case of Kokichi!scum later in the game.
Do you think Kokichi is someone who won't have a plan, if he is scum and wants to bait someone, UnaBombaH?

[Azurit]

I still have to find something between inaktiv and hyperaktiv. Where I come from we normaly play one day in game as one day in real life.

I'll be very busy till sunday, maybe with a little time slot used for the game on friday.

[Azurit]

anti-prod

[Azurit]

Kokichi, what do you think about me? I'd expected you to do something with the reactions about your statements e.g. ask a question or think about what informations you did get about me. Is it wrong that you want to get reactions and work with them?

[Azurit]

Kokichi, what do you think about me? I'd expected you to do something with the reactions about your statements e.g. ask a question or think about what informations you did get about me. Is it wrong that you want to get reactions and work with them?

Have I played with you before?

No, we've never played together.

[Azurit]

Kokichi, what do you think about me? I'd expected you to do something with the reactions about your statements e.g. ask a question or think about what informations you did get about me. Is it wrong that you want to get reactions and work with them?

Have I played with you before?

No, we've never played together.

Then why should my read on you matter at this point? Especially when I've clearly been focused elsewhere

It matters because I get informations and either your thoughts about me either tightening my read on you or weakening it. And to you it is also intresting to get some reactions.

[Azurit]

Siv: what further is suspect is how he read Azur’s rvs posting as awkward town. In rvs, isn’t the purpose supposed to be mostly if not completely fake??

She was playing strange because she went right into serious interrogations right from the day started. But then Azurit was questioned about that, she stated that she was used to playing mafia games where the days are actually just one real day. I believed this when I read it.

In this case you should read me as null, don't you? What you explained is not a reason to town read me, it's an reason not to scum read me.

I feel like koki is an easy lynch and performer took the bait. Koki reads to me like unhelpful town.

Why do you think Koki is unhelpful?
And why is being unhelpful a town indication?

@Performer: At the moment I don't have a readslist. It feels like many people have reads based on comparison to other games and it is hard to say who is right and who is wrong. But maybe you can question me about something, that I can answer without background informations from other games.

[Azurit]

Azurit, what do you think of this koki wagon, how do you read koki right now?

Well, I think Koki looks like a townie that wants to play with mates from older games (#295 and #329). It is also extraordinary scum stil not to care about what other people think of you / wheter you help your team (same exampels). Even if my first evaluation of his play is propably wrong, I think it is very likely that Koki flips town.

It's very hard to get reads from the koki wagon. Maybe a very slight Chill town lean... but there are lots of things that need back ground informations about the players style.
If you want to have a look on my thoughts, you can read the spoiler.

Spoiler:

What don't you like about em Sivy

Conflict or Koki?

In the last game I played, Maestro continually had only one read the whole game. He was bound on getting virtuoso lynched. That was his only care. He was also really hard to put up with, and him and I had a blow out. Fights are uncomfortable, even if it isn't face-to face. It also makes the game awkward. He ended up being mafia.

Koki is doing the one read thing too. I wonder if it's a mafia thing?

VOTE: Kokichi Oma

That's a bad reason. Following this argument, I could say: "last game hello wrote some posts and fliped scum. Maybe writing posts is a scum thing. Vote xyz." Do you get what I mean? SIV has just a reason why someone can be scum, but there is no reason why Koki can't be a townie.
I'm not sure, wheter I should expect Civ to have better reasons than this one. Performer has made a similar mistake, so proparbly not.

VOTE: kokichi

L-2

I'm sorry, but I can't read this.

i thought i didnt have any experience of town!koki, but i just remembered i do ...

if anyone is bored enough to go through previous games (wiki), i played mafia month with town!koki and he did not do this hard push thing
i played one shot mafia with scum!koki where he did towards the end on a alleged result to win.

so it seems logical to assume this is scum koki

VOTE: koki

Same thing, I don't know older games and don't have time to look them up. I realy don't know wheter you're right.

I did not quote Performers vote, because that's a very long post. I think his post is strange, because he gives different cases depending on wheter profii is scum or not.
Unfortunaly there also are some townies making this mistake, even if I think this is more a scum thing (because in case of Performer!scum he already knows wheter Profii is scum).

VOTE: kokichi
I'd like to see where this goes

Can't read this, because I don't know their style.

VOTE: profii

that'd be too stupid for scum d1. waaaay too stupid. trading a townie for scum is fine especially day 1. So now either profii or kokichi is scum. I can't see kokichi being that stupid as scum.

VOTE: kokichi

i was gonna counter claim cop but profii didn't let me have my fun

To me it is autentical, that he flip flops between Koki and Profii because of the day cop claim. Maybe he would avoid doing that as scum, because many people say it is a scum tell to flip flop. I think in case of chill!scum he would also know that there is no cop in this game, because otherwise scum had to find the cop.
But that's a small town read, because there are also reasons to act like this as scum, even if they are less likely.

[Azurit]

Is it bad I dislike how quickly people pussied out of that wagon when it hit l-1

Is it bad that I dislike how Azurit provided a fairly comprehensive read list and managed to miss out the worst

I just forgot the worst.
I can't understand the reason to join the waggon and leave it again, neither in case of the worst!scum nor in case of the worst!town. Hence I think it is NAI.

What do you think about the worst?

[Azurit]

I am a day cup
VOTE: Kokichi L-1 but he usually seems to squirm harder as scum

kokichi is town

UNVOTE:

my reason for getting off the Koki wagon and getting him off L-1 should be clear as day LMK if anyone needs more

Can you explain it, please?

[Azurit]

I am a day cup
VOTE: Kokichi L-1 but he usually seems to squirm harder as scum

kokichi is town

UNVOTE:

my reason for getting off the Koki wagon and getting him off L-1 should be clear as day LMK if anyone needs more

Can you explain it, please?

know
what's your impression first?

It is proparbly any combination of Rubys read and/or Kokichi being at L-1, but I don't know which one.
You repead the L-1 think again and again, but in this situation I don't know why it is that important. I'd be glad to have maf hammering Koki, but don't expect them to do that. And I can't see an other reason, too. So tell me: is there something about L-1 I just did not get?

[Azurit]

Can you tell me how your test ended up town reading me? It does not feel like I did something that's difficult to say in case of me being scum.

[Azurit]

VOTE: Tchill13

[Azurit]

VOTE: dunnstral

[Azurit]

I've forgotten to say, that I'll have less time on weekend.

[Azurit]

Does it matter wheter he is Miscellanoeus or not? I think that's the important part:

Killing doesn't stop the actions of the dead player. (Imagine that all kills happen at the end of the night, and everyone pulls the trigger simultaneously.) This means that kills generally do not affect other actions for the purpose of the Golden Rule.

I'm going to vote tchill at EoD.

Rereading Performer now.

[Azurit]

Well, what I found out:
- When Performer had to decide between Profii and Koki, it seems like he had to decide between two townies.
- Retroperspecitv his long read list was kinda wierd. He called not to lynch null reads and read people like Ruby and chill as null, because "nothing stood out". At the same time he suspected Una, Yaesayer, dunn and Mari for not having enough content. I think performer just did not want to lynch his buddies (Tchill and Ruby). I also think the slot from Yeasayer is not a buddy, because he could have read him as null very easy. It feels more like "having the change to lynch him".
- Performer wrote about one line about everyone, but explained much more about the worst, siv and lucky. I'd evaluate him as a scum player who is fine with "reading" townies, but does not feel comfortabel to operate with other scum players. That would implicate that those three people are town, but it's my weakest result.
- is in the waggon on dunnstral at EoD

Conclusion of his posts:
Ruby and Tchill are more likely to be scum.
Very likely to be town = Yeasayer > Luck Otter, Dunn >> Una >> SIV, the worst > a little bit townie

His read list is in the spoiler

Spoiler:

Not sure why the host didn’t put my v/la in the votecount updates….I plan to be v/la for every weekend. Anyway, I’ll address specific questions and general wondering regarding me, all as one post. I’m not into posting streams and streams of wall posts, since I do a lot of phone posting rather than computer posting.

The people I don’t see myself voting or lynching up to this point: Lucky, & null slots.
----------
Worst: he voted prof, he spoke of checking my meta, later says this is his iconic townplay meta in the way he's been posting. All that meta talk just doesn’t sound townie, when combined with his pg 12 interactions with prof & mari (he still has a tr on mari). His continued vote on me is still mystifying, and not in a good way. Yet his scummy behavior to me, I wondered - is this too scummy to be scum? I considered that but no, my read is the same on him. I don't believe this is a case of that slot being too scummy to be scum. What's worrisome to me is nobody seems to believes me, but I don't like sitting my vote on a slot for this long when there are other productive cases. Mentioning the wagoning on koki by saying he doesn't want to go that route because he can get very annoying if town... what in the world? That just isn't a good reason.

Dunn: minimalistic post content and not seeing why he thinks tchill has an agenda, that he’s pushing an agenda.

Una: as someone I’ve noticed was an IC before, I find it suspect that he puts out a ton of joke posts. His vote on prof looked like a pressure vote so that’s alright, but his posts are mostly odd. Not a tr. I want to see what he'll post, which he said he'll do by tomorrow.

Lucky:

in terms of why worst over prof at the moment, I believe I explained why already about that. Also, what questions from 170? Sorry if I missed them but I don’t recall questions that needed answering anymore, as I believe I already addressed them. I believed Lucky's thought process to be from town on his page 7 post & based on pgs 7-8 interactions with Siv, I voted Siv and at the time, Lucky was my only tr iirc. Still had worst as an sr but leaving my vote on him and no one voting that, was getting us nowhere, so we needed more productive pressure. Later Lucky votes me because I didn’t answer him…? An odd progression but I can see town doing this, I’ve done something like this before too, so I wouldn’t say that’s scummy. My tr on him stays the same. Bringing up una’s “lurking” so that he should be wagoned, makes absolutely no sense. Being on v/la is NAI, otherwise Mari, Una, and I would be widely sr. The question of “if scum, what does siv benefit from giving mari a tr,” to that I’m saying that I didn’t have a tr on mari from the way she’s posting (scummy), so the fact that he did a tr on her just sounds fabricated. How it benefits him in the end, is anybody’s guess – we’d have to ask the scum team that. Why would siv tr mari anyway at that point?

Tchill:

nothing stood out in my skim about this slot so I put him as null. Voted prof, then me, later voted Dunn. Has reasonable posts here and there, but one of them that’s just plain eye opening was how he thought Siv was doing decent work at that point on pg 9.

Yeasayer: forgot this guy was even in this game anymore. Looking at his ISO, it’s been half a day phase & by now, he should’ve input a little more, is my expectation. Siv mentioned he got a strong feeling this slot was interested in game solving…but they were only what, 3 light posts in? Definitely getting more suspect about this slot.

Ruby:

null. About the same as my thoughts on Tchill.

Mari: posts song lyrics and makes a few substantial posts, like the back to back ones regarding her Siv & Dunn votes. I love songs too but the ISO look largely fluff, such as the super bare pg 11 post only about worst being null, and asking others for content.

Azurit: suspicion on this slot has maintained, there's no progression for me about this slot from their posts. Azurit, readslist?

Koki: either he’s being threatened to treat prof as the biggest scum of the Earth, or he has the strongest gut feel ever regarding prof, because he has focused on him for all day. Mentioned getting night protection from pr, which raised my eyebrows as I mentioned before.

Prof:

first wagon of the day but 1st two votes didn’t even look serious. Throughout the day my read on him has wavered multiple times from town mislynch to scummy, and back and forth. When I got to pgs 12-13, my read on him changed to tr. I can agree with what he & tchill brought up regarding koki, which is why I'll
VOTE: Kokichi

Siv: what further is suspect is how he read Azur’s rvs posting as awkward town. In rvs, isn’t the purpose supposed to be mostly if not completely fake?? Like if I claimed 1-shot commuter in rvs and voted myself in the 1st post of the game, that’s an rvs case. Bringing up that mafia used to bring up meta talk can be suspicious, yes, but it’s if they have recent meta, they can post about that to manipulate. I don’t even have any recent meta, so Siv calling me mafia because of meta - suspicious. It looks he twisted my words. Out of thing air, he added me to his tr list, which I honestly have no clue why.

[Azurit]

I've reread Ruby now. Many opinions and only a few explanations makes it hard to read them. But there are two things that pinged me:

First one: they town read Lucky very early (what is fine), but later in the game Ruby they repead the read againg and again and act like that would be something totaly new (they say "you can be town for now" for exampel). It is only a very small point, but sometimes it seems like Ruby does not have new content, so they repead older reads to camouflage their lack of content. At the end of the day they you can see that behavior again when Ruby calls out the scum team to times with very little changes and a little bit later a lynch pool with almost the same people.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Tchill13 Let's see just how tchill you are.

I don't make anything out of the unabombah vote from ruby. They made a regular vote first and the number vote (clearly a joke) second, so I wouldn't take it as hiding a wagon vote.

Azurit, is your Dunnstral vote random?

humor check
logical check
questioning check

after a great deal of consideration i've decided that i'll be treating luckyotter as town until proven otherwise. congratulations.

Note that it takes two post to present the first read.

VOTE: Tchill13 Let's see just how tchill you are.

I don't make anything out of the unabombah vote from ruby. They made a regular vote first and the number vote (clearly a joke) second, so I wouldn't take it as hiding a wagon vote.

Azurit, is your Dunnstral vote random?

humor check
logical check
questioning check

after a great deal of consideration i've decided that i'll be treating luckyotter as town until proven otherwise. congratulations.

doesn't seemm like a great dwal of consideration tbh.

are you accusing me of something?

that being said, you raise an interesting point. after even more consideration, i'm willing to reclassify to "town but possible deepwolf".

And why don't you try to make anything happen?

i (no offense) really hate every single thing about this post. will circle back to it later but need to touch on something else first.

on first read and after looking strictly at their content (particularly the stuff just before koki's initial comment and vote, all of which i'm assuming must've contributed to an idea about his play that i don't fully understand), i don't really get the read kokichi had on profil either. @koki, enlighten me if you'd please. after continuing on, i get the feeling you were just sort of baiting him for a reaction but in case you weren't and this is entirely earnest, i'd like to see where you're coming from.

in the meantime, VOTE: Azurit. their initial posts came across as very noncommittal to me and seemed like somebody trying to present themselves as participating while doing the bare minimum, albeit very awkwardly.

you can be town for now

Second one: Ruby starts to talk about deep wolfs very early. Later in the game they soudenly say, that it's not a good idea to try to lynch deep wolfs first. That's not consistent and even more it seems like Ruby uses to deep wolf argument to throw shades on MariaR and Lucky at the beginning of the game. And later on they use it just the other way round to protect Performer from being lynched and lynch Dunn instead of him. According to my reads they always use the argument pro scum and against townies.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Tchill13 Let's see just how tchill you are.

I don't make anything out of the unabombah vote from ruby. They made a regular vote first and the number vote (clearly a joke) second, so I wouldn't take it as hiding a wagon vote.

Azurit, is your Dunnstral vote random?

humor check
logical check
questioning check

after a great deal of consideration i've decided that i'll be treating luckyotter as town until proven otherwise. congratulations.

doesn't seemm like a great dwal of consideration tbh.

are you accusing me of something?

that being said, you raise an interesting point. after even more consideration, i'm willing to reclassify to "town but possible deepwolf".

maria was page 4 deepwolf.

dunn is objectively wolfy this game. going after someone like azurit or (imo) performer is just looking for a deepwolf before the just wolfy players are dead.

that lynches town a majority of the time and then you're left in lylo with scumfucks that should've been lynched d1.

[Azurit]

Ruby, why did you promote to vote dunn, but Track tchill?

[Azurit]

I want to find out wheter I can trust ruby or not.

[Azurit]

Euh, maybe it's the best thing not to evaluate Ruby now, move on and see what happens.
I don't have any clue what to do now xD

[Azurit]

You're great, Una. Do you want to have a cookie?

[Azurit]

...btw Azurit, if that is you in the picture, you're both pretty, and apparently like to bake cookies!

Maybe it's me in a parallel universum, but in this one it's unfortunatly just a photo from the internet... But if I had an oven, I would bake a cookie for you!

[Azurit]

Though baking is the funny part

[Azurit]

I'm ready to end this day. I think right now we have many informations and I want scum to make the next decission.

VOTE: Tchill

[Azurit]

Read List

town
Morality
Lucky Otter
Dunnstral
Una Bombah

Koki
SIV

the worst

scum

Don't know what to do with Ruby, because I'm very unexperienced with this part of mafia games. I'd listen to my townies there and don't like to rush things.

[Azurit]

I'm Vanilla Townie.

[Azurit]

I had a strong Una!town gut when he talked about his tchill read on D2. I think he honestly was proud, because he was doing very well to read him early in the game. You can fake reads, but it is much more difficult to fake emotions.

[Azurit]

What does QFT mean?

And I don't have a read on you. I just have better reasons why other people are more likely to be town.

[Azurit]

I'm busy. Have to reread the worst later, but can't promise that I'll be able to, because of my lack of time.

@Morality: I did not get why there must be all scum players on the same person, too. Yeah, it is possible, but why are you sure they're not voting someone else?

[Azurit]

Is there any scum role in normal games, that can't be tracked?

[Azurit]

How about ruby tracks people we're planning on lynching

Yeah, Ruby can track me, because there is none in the game who has a good read on me.

Case 1: one off us gets killed -> one person less to lynch
Case 2: Ruby says I would be scum -> town can lynch both of us and wins the game
Case 3: Someone else dies and Ruby gets a town result -> I'm confirmed town
Case 4: none dies -> lynch anyone but ruby and try to track again.

[Azurit]

btw Mora, why no claim yday?

I was afraid of getting killed

What's the problem, in case of scum kills you?

[Azurit]

One Person less and more informations from Ruby.

I'm very intrested in informations about who has to kill first, because I think No Lynch is still the best thing.

[Azurit]

VOTE: No Lynch[\v]

[Azurit]

VOTE: No Lynch

[Azurit]

VOTE: Ruby

[Azurit]

L-2