Mini Normal 2012: Tropical Mafia [Endgame]

[JarJarDrinks]

Let's get this game started!

VOTE: JarJarDrinks

His name is... unpleasant.

Is it cuz u dont like Jar Jar. Or u dont like people making fun of Jar Jar's name?

Answer may affect where I vote.

[JarJarDrinks]

Checking in

VOTE: Garuga for stealing my initial vote

Meaning u were planning to vote for me or ur mad that he made the games first vote?

[JarJarDrinks]

@Shoshin

why are you defending a post from Garuga that he himself admitted was bad?

[JarJarDrinks]

what do u think of Shoshin hard defending u?

[JarJarDrinks]

Padme made him supreme chancellor in the first place. And anakin was as annoying of a character.

What do u think of Shoshins Garuga read (and her vote on you) ?

[JarJarDrinks]

why are you defending a post from Garuga that he himself admitted was bad?

That's precisely why.

So ur saying 18 itself could be considered scummy but the post he made defending it 3 posts later is what makes it good?

That doesnt seem like what ur arguing at all in these posts:

Spoiler:

dumb vote and that question was really bad

I disagree. What's "dumb" about the vote? And why is the question "really bad"?

My issue with 18 is he said he found the omgus suspicious but didn’t vote it.

Why's that scummy?

Cause you don’t rvs vote over something suspicious

Why would scum do this?

VOTE: Shoshin

[JarJarDrinks]

This is your issue w/ Rampage shosh?

Sho: Why do you think Rampage is scummier? The only suspicious thing I've noticed up until now is TBB's OMGUS vote.

Rampage's entrance has that trying-too-hard-scum-vibe.

thats whats keeping u from voting for me?

[JarJarDrinks]

also

shallow attempt to throw a vote my way.

I think I have some pretty deep reasoning for a page 2 vote.

[JarJarDrinks]

So explain a little more.

Is 18 a bad or scummy post independently? Like if he hadn't made post 21, would you be defending/townreading him?

[JarJarDrinks]

Followup: 3 people voted him for post 18. Do U think there's scum in there?

[JarJarDrinks]

Neither did Fitz - why did you choose Invisibility out of the two?

The wagon on Invisibility seems more viable at the moment.

If I had to guess, I'd say the three votes on Garuga's 18 were town. But those are very weak reads.

I disagree. I think there was some malicious intent in the wagon against me.

My current pet theory on this game is that havingfitz was scum, my vote on him made Scumsibility worried and he wants to discredit me, and Sho is scum playing a different angle. These are very premature reads though.

i feel like

this

kinda stuff are very hard to fake as scum

I think I agree

[JarJarDrinks]

they seem like an awkward attempt for scum to seem like town for agreeing with criticisms.

What about it comes across as

awkward

to you?

On another note, I have my first town read!

VOTE: JJD

who's the town read?

And what's the vote on me for?

[JarJarDrinks]

I'm caught up with the day's worth of posts, most of them full of sound and fury, but...

Dacy made some insightful comments and BBT is asking his usual questions. They're probably not going to get my vote today.

so u caught up and this was the only thing u felt like commenting on?

Like why say they're not gonna get ur vote when nobody was suggesting they be voted? There's plenty of stuff actually going on.

[JarJarDrinks]

I am gonna UNVOTE:

I feel like Shirt on is trying to trap and it is failing. Either that or hoping the newb is an easy target for lynching as scum. Tough call. Will wait as the day drags on.

If you suspect Shoshin, why aren't you voting her? After all, we just had a discussion about this topic.

Agree with this. Like why unvote in the same post?

[JarJarDrinks]

Let's get this game started!

VOTE: JarJarDrinks

His name is... unpleasant.

Is it cuz u dont like Jar Jar. Or u dont like people making fun of Jar Jar's name?

Answer may affect where I vote.

Checking in

VOTE: Garuga for stealing my initial vote

Meaning u were planning to vote for me or ur mad that he made the games first vote?

These kind of questions seem scummy to me. The answers would clutter the thread with some useless information

39 was my opening post.

I hadn't read anything yet and saw that there was only a page worth or posts and figured we were still in RVS.

But the second question I actually did want to know the answer to cuz if he was planning on RVSing someone else I'd have thought it was odd that he didnt.

but the first post was just for funnayz.

Checking in

VOTE: Garuga for stealing my initial vote

Meaning u were planning to vote for me or ur mad that he made the games first vote?

It was because I was gonna vote for you and make some off handed comment about how Jar Jar sucks and turned the Galactic Republic into and Empire by getting Chancellor Palpatine Emergency Powers.

Padme made him supreme chancellor in the first place. And anakin was as annoying of a character.

What do u think of Shoshins Garuga read (and her vote on you) ?

As I was saying

O Cmon I cant have a little fun? I asked a legit question to go along with it.

[JarJarDrinks]

good posts from Jodaxq. I townread her.

[JarJarDrinks]

I am gonna UNVOTE:

I feel like Shirt on is trying to trap and it is failing. Either that or hoping the newb is an easy target for lynching as scum. Tough call. Will wait as the day drags on.

It's a tough call between Shoshin being scum and setting a trap and Shoshin being scum and hoping for a mislynch?

I believe the former is supposed to mean that Shoshin is town and setting a trap for scum. Which seems like a weird POV for rampage to have since that would make HIM scum. Especially since he says it's "failing".

[JarJarDrinks]

lets do this

UNVOTE:

VOTE: TheRampage

[JarJarDrinks]

If I didn't find Rampage scummy, I'd vote Jar for that shallow attempt to throw a vote my way.

I find this pretty strange. He asked a question on something that seemed out of place and voted. That's a pretty normal happening in a game of mafia. I don't see how it stands out this much to you other than that it's a vote for you.

Jar also interpreted my meaning in the worst possible light without any reason to do so, and that bias isn't "normal" at this point in the game.

Ok here's what I see as the facts:
(if u disagree with any of these points then say so)

- Garuga makes a post that looks bad and people attack him for it.

- You defend that post

- I ask you why your defending a bad post and you imply that the reason is because Garuga admitted himself that the post is bad

- I point out that's inconsistent with what you've said so far


explain what a "normal" reaction should be?

[JarJarDrinks]

You're assuming that defending Garuga means I automatically agree with Garuga's perception (that his own post is bad).

You dont that that's a natural assumption to make based of of this:

Spoiler:

why are you defending a post from Garuga that he himself admitted was bad?

That's precisely why.

[JarJarDrinks]

No, that's not a natural assumption. Townies don't think to themselves, "oh, X feels town, so now I automatically agree with everything X says."

This post is confusing.

Are you saying that I'm calling you scummy because you don't agree with Garuga even tho u townread him?

cuz I'm not at all.

[JarJarDrinks]

then explain that quote. Who is it referring to and who represents X?

[JarJarDrinks]

Townies don't think to themselves, "oh, X feels town, so now I automatically agree with everything X says."

Like what is this referring to?

[JarJarDrinks]

You're assuming that defending Garuga means I automatically agree with Garuga's perception (that his own post is bad).

You said his 18 was bad.

No, I never said 18 was bad. Everything I said prior to Jar's vote suggested 18 was fine. And after Jar's vote, I said it "looks" bad but isn't scummy.

OK but do u really think I'm scummy for assumming that what you meant was that 18 bad?

Like "looks bad but isn't scummy" isnt really a thing.

[JarJarDrinks]

I'd still lynch Jar after Rampage.

How do you still have Rampage ahead of me?

This looks like a pretty strong read:

Spoiler:

If I didn't find Rampage scummy, I'd vote Jar for that shallow attempt to throw a vote my way.

The problem with Jar is that he's making his case on me before trying to understand my thinking. That's how scum play, not town.

Jar interpreted my meaning in the worst light without any grounding for doing so. Or as I put it in 55, he made no attempt to understand my thinking before deciding I was scum, which resulted in biased analysis (i.e. misreading/misunderstanding).

Jar also interpreted my meaning in the worst possible light without any reason to do so, and that bias isn't "normal" at this point in the game.

No, that's not a natural assumption. Townies don't think to themselves, "oh, X feels town, so now I automatically agree with everything X says."

This post is confusing.

Are you saying that I'm calling you scummy because you don't agree with Garuga even tho u townread him?

No, that's not what I'm saying. But your overuse of leading questions is also scummy.

His overuse of leading questions suggests a predetermined desire to scumread me rather than an openness to figure out my intended meaning. He wants to tell a particular story instead of following the evidence.

Compared to

Spoiler:

Rampage's entrance has that trying-too-hard-scum-vibe.

Rampage's follow-up has confirmed my initial read.

[JarJarDrinks]

How do you still have Rampage ahead of me?

You're voting him, so I don't see why that's a mystery.

The point is that you for someone that is your top scumread, u've sure said a whole lot of nothing about him.

Like you said that my scumread of you was shallow. Is your Rampage read deep?

[JarJarDrinks]

Like you said that my scumread of you was shallow. Is your Rampage read deep?

To expound on this a bit.

Shosh says:

If I didn't find Rampage scummy, I'd vote Jar for that shallow attempt to throw a vote my way.

So my vote in 49 was shallow but the reasoning he gave for his vote was this:

Sho: Why do you think Rampage is scummier? The only suspicious thing I've noticed up until now is TBB's OMGUS vote.

Rampage's entrance has that trying-too-hard-scum-vibe.

[JarJarDrinks]

And he STILL hasn't said anything of significance about why rampage is his top scumread.

[JarJarDrinks]

going back
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Shoshin

[JarJarDrinks]

JJD vs Shoshin is not SvS

Why is JJD town?

Did you just .com to bring scum here?

Cop to being*

Rampage, what r u saying here? That Shoshin slipped and called me town?

[JarJarDrinks]

Rampage, what r u saying here?

[JarJarDrinks]

Rampage, what r u saying here?

It was just a little funny to me that his defense is like, so you seriously think JJD is town. Not that you are scummier or anything. Feels almost as if it was a slip cause he doesn't really come out and say he shouldn't think he is scum.

The last sentence has too many pronouns for me to follow but it sounds like ur saying that you were implying that it may have been a slip?

[JarJarDrinks]

So then by "No, not at all", u meant "kinda sorta" ??

[JarJarDrinks]

@TheRampage

u got scumreads/townreads? Would love to see u throw a vote down.

[JarJarDrinks]

I think it's natural to assume that JJD is a townread for invisibility if he says that invisibility/shosin is not SvS and immediately votes shosin. why is there a talk about a slip..?

Yes this'd be my reasoning for questioning it.

[JarJarDrinks]

How do you still have Rampage ahead of me?

You're voting him, so I don't see why that's a mystery.

Oh this one really stands out to me. Why avoid answering?

It's bad for another reason. He's actually misrepping me here.

He's answering as if I'm asking "What's so scummy about Rampage?".

But if u look at 131, what I'm saying is that he's said jack shit about theRampage so far while shading me the whole game yet he still keeps saying "Jar after Rampage"

[JarJarDrinks]

More like Shoshin questioned the town read on you instead of the scum read on him. So it seemed like he slipped and basically said we are right to question his alignment.

I have no idea what you were trying to say during this exchange

here's what I got:

invisibility makes his post where it seems like he implies that I'm a townread and Shoshin is scumread.

Rampage is saying that shoshin immediatedly questions the townread instead of the scumread.


not sure how that'd be a scumslip though.

[JarJarDrinks]

You're very wrong about "the purpose of this game" for town. It's not to "frame people as scum," it's to figure out who the scum are. It's the scum who frame townies because the scum already know the alignments. Town follow the evidence where it leads; scum distort or ignore the evidence to tell a particular story. JJD distorted 46 to mean that I viewed 18 as scummy, ignored 47 (where I clarify the meaning in 46), and on that basis voted me for an "inconsistency" that doesn't actually exist unless you distort 46 and ignore 47. In other words, JJD isn't following the evidence where it leads, he's distorting and ignoring evidence to tell a particular story. And that isn't "strange" (never said it was), it's "scummy."

Any opinion on havingfitz also saying that you implied that 18 is bad?

[JarJarDrinks]

You're very wrong about "the purpose of this game" for town. It's not to "frame people as scum," it's to figure out who the scum are. It's the scum who frame townies because the scum already know the alignments. Town follow the evidence where it leads; scum distort or ignore the evidence to tell a particular story. JJD distorted 46 to mean that I viewed 18 as scummy, ignored 47 (where I clarify the meaning in 46), and on that basis voted me for an "inconsistency" that doesn't actually exist unless you distort 46 and ignore 47. In other words, JJD isn't following the evidence where it leads, he's distorting and ignoring evidence to tell a particular story. And that isn't "strange" (never said it was), it's "scummy."

Any opinion on havingfitz also saying that you implied that 18 is bad?

HF didn't say I "implied" anything, he thinks I said it was bad, period. So HF doesn't know how to read... is it indicative of alignment? I dunno. I'm suspicious but not enough to commit yet because a lot of what he's doing could just be how he plays - when I have the chance, I'm planning on reading some of his games to get a better sense of how he plays.

So at least 2 people have said they think u said/implied that 18 is bad.

The whole reason u scumread me is because ur saying that I'm twisting your words. Do you really think someone assuming that "looks bad but isn't scummy" means that u think the post is bad is jumping to conclusions?

If you actually said 18 was bad, would you think my scumread of u would be justified?

[JarJarDrinks]

I thought Shoshin was.questioning the consistency of Invisibility's reads. I don't like that Rampage immediately jumped on it as a slip.

I think it's natural to assume that JJD is a townread for invisibility if he says that invisibility/shosin is not SvS and immediately votes shosin. why is there a talk about a slip..?

I'm with these two.

These three are probably town.

now these reads I like. Also think the Invisibility case is decent.

[JarJarDrinks]

Jodaxq

- town. Good scumhunting. Like the questioning of shosh, BBT and fitz. Thoughts mirror mine alot

havingfitz

- townlean. seems to be scumhunting. Has same thoughts as I do about shoshins garuga defense

bacy

- townlean. not many posts but I like most of em

Garuga

- null lean town. Not very much in his iso but looks ok. trying not to conf bias but a scum-shosh probably doesnt defend a scum-Garuga

texcat

- null. do stuff

Mumble

- null. do stuff

Havo

- null. do stuff

Gustavo

- null. do stuff

BlueBloodedToffee

- null scumlean. hasn't done much. His few posts arent very good

Invisibility

- scumlean. the whole not SvS thing looks bad and his iso has alot of shallow posts

TheRampage

- scum. his seems to shade shoshin a bit but is very reluctant to vote there. Also he hasn't talk about another player in the game (aside from his most recent terribad vote for joda)

Shoshin

- scum. I've posted plenty about my read here

[JarJarDrinks]

you know I really hate when people do stuff like that. sometimes people are busy irl, telling people to "do stuff" isn't really being helpful and it kind of pisses me off.

Spoiler:

I aint out here berating y'all. I posted a readslist and was explaining that I'm nullreading several people cuz they haven't done stuff yet.

[JarJarDrinks]

You're assuming that defending Garuga means I automatically agree with Garuga's perception (that his own post is bad).

You said his 18 was bad.

Where?

why'd u just dig that up? u already responded to it.

pedit: looking now

[JarJarDrinks]

Yes, you were jumping to conclusions because (a) I hadn't said anything about 18 "looking" bad when you voted me, (b) 47 clearly indicates that I don't think 18 is bad, and (c) as you yourself admit, all my questions and posts prior to your vote suggested that 18 wasn't bad, so why would you assume I thought it was bad? If all my behaviors suggest 18 isn't bad and I never said anything that implies 18 is bad, why would you make that assumption?

Bad question.

I disagree with the premise that you didn't imply that 18 was bad.

The fact that your behavior suggested that 18 isn't bad but you later imply that it was bad is exactly what I find scummy.



even before the post where u said it "looks bad but isn't scummy" it seemed like u were implying it was bad:

why are you defending a post from Garuga that he himself admitted was bad?

That's precisely why.

To me this post is you admitting that 18 is bad.

[JarJarDrinks]

Why do you keep reading 46 without taking into account 47?

because 47 is simply you just explaining why you townread garuga.

I never asked you why you townread him. I wanted to know why you were specifically defending post 18.

[JarJarDrinks]

Why do you keep reading 46 without taking into account 47?

because 47 is simply you just explaining why you townread garuga.

I never asked you why you townread him. I wanted to know why you were specifically defending post 18.

47 refers to 18. So, again, why are you ignoring 47 when evaluating the meaning of 46?

47 just explains why you would be defending Garuga. It doesn't explain why you'd be specifically defending that post.


Furthermore:

If I had to guess, I'd say the three votes on Garuga's 18 were town. But those are very weak reads.

So 3 people that you weren't scumreading said the post is bad AND the person that made the post said it was bad.


Like the bottom line is that 18 is bad and you defended it.

[JarJarDrinks]

And you still haven't explained how 46 implies that 18 is bad.

when I ask why are you defending a bad post and you give a reason and that reason isn't "because it wasn't a bad post" then you're conceding that the post is bad.

[JarJarDrinks]

No. You said "do stuff" which is a command.

Spoiler:

[JarJarDrinks]

I hope by "do stuff" you don't mean saying the same thing over and over again about 18. Because we should have exhausted that topic 9 pages ago.

Perhaps if more people were "doing stuff", I'd have other topics to talk about.

[JarJarDrinks]

I hope by "do stuff" you don't mean saying the same thing over and over again about 18. Because we should have exhausted that topic 9 pages ago.

Perhaps if more people were "doing stuff", I'd have other topics to talk about.

Man more that I think about it, the more I seriously Fn hate tex's post here.

How are you gonna critisize people taking about what's going on in the game when you haven't contributed a lick to the discussion?

would he prefer we just sit around?

[JarJarDrinks]

good posts from Jodaxq. I townread her.

Which posts did you like?

all of her posts to that point were pretty good.

[JarJarDrinks]

gonna UNVOTE: Shoshin for now

Latest bunch of posts seem decent and she does scumread the same people as me at least. Plus she's super active which I generally don't like to lynch in games with a bunch of lurkers.


lets VOTE: TheRampage
some reasoning here:

Spoiler:

TheRampage

- scum. his seems to shade shoshin a bit but is very reluctant to vote there. Also he hasn't talk about another player in the game (aside from his most recent terribad vote for joda)

Plus 2 of my townreads are on the wagon which is a good sign.

[JarJarDrinks]

I think it's a good question

[JarJarDrinks]

Why are we not lynching this?

I could probably compromise on Invisibility. Do you like any of the other current wagons?

[JarJarDrinks]

Bacy's question isn't weird. I had the exact same response to Havo's question.

You gave 3 people a blanket townread so I think it only makes sense to ask you to expound on it.

I don't like the idea of telling the scum exactly who my strongest townread is

Why? What is scum gonna do with that information?

nor do I see how my answer offers any "insight" to my alignment.

the answer alone may give a little insight but the reason to ask this is because making people put their opinions out there can only help as we get further along. If you flip scum at some point I'll look back at what u answered here w/ some interest.

[JarJarDrinks]

Why? What is scum gonna do with that information?

It gives them a better idea about who they should bring to LYLO.

doesn't ANY read do this. Why is stating your top townread worse than your top 2 townreads? (which u gave)


also this may be semantic but the question wasn't asking you for your top topread. Just which of those 3 people you townread most.

[JarJarDrinks]

*for your top townread.

[JarJarDrinks]

I don't really get the issue here. Forcing people to take a stance and put their opinions out there is kinda what you do in mafia.

[JarJarDrinks]

@Garuga

explain ur havingfitz scumread to me please.

[JarJarDrinks]

I'm confused why u felt that me asking you to explain a read meant that u should claim?

[JarJarDrinks]

Nobody reads ISOs, apparently.

also what's this referring to?

[JarJarDrinks]

Preview: I'm having to constantly refer to things I've said in previous posts.

OK but you said it in response to my post

Spoiler:

@Garuga

explain ur havingfitz scumread to me please.

This game has been frustrating. Nobody reads ISOs, apparently.

So were you implying that you already explained ur havingfitz read? If so, point me to it.

[JarJarDrinks]

Man I wanna lynch that claim. It's just about as scummy of a claim as I've seen.

[JarJarDrinks]

Man I wanna lynch that claim. It's just about as scummy of a claim as I've seen.

Then do it. Vote me. Or is there some reason you don't want to?

No reason. I may vote for you today but for now I'll just give u points cuz I dont want to derail a perfectly good rampage wagon.

Curious to hear some more peoples reactions to the claim.

[JarJarDrinks]

I think the claim comes from town. It's a bad play from town, but it's worse from scum. A scum claiming an investigative would

have to fake invest results

while also explaining why he hadn't been killed.

could be scum motion detector

[JarJarDrinks]

all of her posts to that point were pretty good.

Which ones? And why?

94 98 99 101 103

All posts that mirrored my thoughts and look like good scumhunting.

[JarJarDrinks]

VC 1.04

Shoshin

(3): Mumble, JarJarDrinks, Invisibility

This wagon though.

Do u townread Shoshin?

[JarJarDrinks]

I think Rampage is L-1 so act accordingly

[JarJarDrinks]

Invisibility and Mumble abandoning the Shoshin wagon as soon as JJD did is suspect as fuck.

I noticed this too. Wagon just evaporated.

[JarJarDrinks]

agree

[JarJarDrinks]

Um no hammer please

[JarJarDrinks]

UNVOTE:

[JarJarDrinks]

@Rampage

that's p much intent so claim please.

[JarJarDrinks]

You can leave the vote while we wait for the claim.

All you're doing now is stalling a wagon and relieving pressure. Why would you do that?

cuz fitz implied he was gonna lolhammer

[JarJarDrinks]

Rampage

meh wasn't that clear to me but it's clear based on his last post:

VOTE: Rampage

[JarJarDrinks]

I am nothing special on this side.

Is this a VT claim?

[JarJarDrinks]

Cool, hammer please Fitz.

That post just looks like scum that gave up: Here's a list of 1/2 the game, scum probably in there.

[JarJarDrinks]

some people on that list that rampage hasn't mentioned a thing about.

[JarJarDrinks]

Mumble
Jodaxq

Shoshin

Invisibility

Texcat
JarJarDrinks

If Ramp flips scum next lynch should be between the people on his scumlist that aren't on his wagon.

[JarJarDrinks]

I disagree.

Rampage is 100% being bussed.

If I had to pick 1 person on the wagon that looks like a bus it'd be you. You were late to the wagon and never really did anything to indicate u scumread rampage before u voted.

[JarJarDrinks]

I'd put the game on Mumble being scum if Rampage is.

Hmm, u may be selling me. Just ISO'd them both and mumbles first mention of Ramp was his vote and Ramps first mention of mumbles is the scumlist.

[JarJarDrinks]

I'm tempted to hammer TheRampage so I can make everyone on the wagon look like fools on D2 if he flips town. Would rather lynch Invis or VOTE: JarJarDrinks though, considering his response to my claim and the people he bolded in 372 (two of my scumreads).

I'm confused why me saying that we should lynch from your scumreads is a reason to vote me?

[JarJarDrinks]

Look, when I flip town, please for the love of good seriously look at Mimble and BBT. Trying to end this damn thing to stop the flow of information so they can kill another town in N1. So yes, go ahead and hammer me Shoshin so people will listen to what I am saying.

u could always selfhammer.

[JarJarDrinks]

JJD, you are so fucking pro-scum... Why would you encourage someone to self-hammer? How would that benefit town?

calling his bluff.

He implied that he wanted u to hammer him so people will listen to him. I pointed out that he could have taken care of that himself.

[JarJarDrinks]

im not hammering Rampage

u think he's flipping town here?

[JarJarDrinks]

I'd put the game on Mumble being scum if Rampage is.

No reevaluation after the flip?

[JarJarDrinks]

No, no need to. Mumble looked bad regardless.

Why did Mumbles look bad?

[JarJarDrinks]

I think I like a BBT/Invisibility scumteam right now.

Gonna reread everything tomorrow at work before deciding what lynch to push.

[JarJarDrinks]

Could be BBT/Mumbles too. I think it's clear based on today that BBT is bussing one of them.

[JarJarDrinks]

No, no need to. Mumble looked bad regardless.

Why did Mumbles look bad?

Still looking for an answer here

[JarJarDrinks]

I think I like a BBT/Invisibility scumteam right now.

Gonna reread everything tomorrow at work before deciding what lynch to push.

Like, I could see scum!BBT based on his end of day play yesterday (and the start of today), but why are you doing it off associatives at this point? Your going to have to give something more than you think he's bussing.

Do not fear. As I said I'm gonna reread stuff and if I decide BBT is the best lynch I will surely post more reasoning.


In the meantime people, just look at BBTs posts today and tell me if he doesn't seem more concerned with how his vote looks than anything else?

Why does he think mumbles or invisibility is scum? Has he said why yet?

[JarJarDrinks]

JJD, what's your read on Mumble?

As I said, it's possible that BBT is bussing but Invisibility seems more likely.

Apart from that I think I lean town.

[JarJarDrinks]

I think my vote is better served here for the moment.

VOTE: TheRampage

Can we lynch Mumble after Rampage/Invisibility?

Here's BBT throwing shade on Mumbles for voting rampage.

Next post:

OK, I'm caught up.

Will lynch any of Rampage, Invisibility, Mumble.

VOTE: Rampage

[JarJarDrinks]

After rereading BBTs ISO, there's really not as much scumminess as I was expecting.

The worse of it is how he hasn't said very much about his scumreads (mumbles especially) and how his behavior arouid the hammer felt contrived.

Will prob be voting elsewhere but he remains a scumlean.

[JarJarDrinks]

I keep coming back to this:

He's not providing clear arguments for his reads. His "what?" trilogy (151 153 155) is probably the best example, along with the (19 23 28) trio early on.

So why naked vote him (essentially doing what you are scum reading him for) instead of asking him to clarify?

Because I see an alternative reason for your vote...

I was already voting him since 48. I don't think this sort of posting comes from town trying to solve the game. I think it's newbscum trying to discredit me since I voted havingfitz, and Invis's reaction is actually one of the main reasons I scumread HF.

The re-vote confirms my read on him and makes my post a bit more flavorful.

Garuga doesn't cast any suspicion towards Mumble.

Um...I'm not new? The re-vote is ridiculous and confusing (especially since I'm having a time differentiating you and Gustavo).

However, you didn't answer my question about clarification, and instead try to throw shade on me for a really weak reason.

VOTE: Garuga

But Mumble feels attacked? And then votes Garuga? I'm having trouble picturing a townie interpret 311 as an attack.

ok I read this. I also read mumble's response to you about this. I also clicked the link mumble provided that showed there was a misunderstanding that garuga clarified and mumble promptly changed his vote.

so now that was previously determined, why are you still using this as a reason to vote mumble?

Lol I just came here to make this exact post.

[JarJarDrinks]

He's not providing clear arguments for his reads. His "what?" trilogy (151 153 155) is probably the best example, along with the (19 23 28) trio early on.

So why naked vote him (essentially doing what you are scum reading him for) instead of asking him to clarify?

Because I see an alternative reason for your vote...

I was already voting him since 48. I don't think this sort of posting comes from town trying to solve the game. I think it's newbscum trying to discredit me since I voted havingfitz, and Invis's reaction is actually one of the main reasons I scumread HF.

The re-vote confirms my read on him and makes my post a bit more flavorful.

I think it's completely reasonable to think that Garuga is referring to Mumbles here.

[JarJarDrinks]

He's not providing clear arguments for his reads. His "what?" trilogy (151 153 155) is probably the best example, along with the (19 23 28) trio early on.

So why naked vote him (essentially doing what you are scum reading him for) instead of asking him to clarify?

Because I see an alternative reason for your vote...

I was already voting him since 48. I don't think this sort of posting comes from town trying to solve the game. I think it's newbscum trying to discredit me since I voted havingfitz, and Invis's reaction is actually one of the main reasons I scumread HF.

The re-vote confirms my read on him and makes my post a bit more flavorful.

I think it's completely reasonable to think that Garuga is referring to Mumbles here.

are you saying that it's completely reasonable for someone to misunderstand it?

sure

[JarJarDrinks]

That’s the dumbest thing I’ve read in a while. Mistakes happen. People misreading things happen. I almost always end up scum reading the people who scum read me and I do it as town. Your original point has been disproven and now spinning it to something else isn’t going to fly.

Why are you assuming that mistakes aren't indicative of alignment? Haven't you ever heard of something called a "scum slip"? As cognitive science, social psychology, and behavioral economics teaches, mistakes are almost always the result of a cognitive bias. So rather than assume a mistake is nothing more than a mistake, I ask questions about the mistake. I look at what the mistake tells us about a player's unconscious thought patterns and biases. You need to ask what the mistake tells us about Mumble's perspective (is it informed or uninformed? defensive or offensive? directed towards pro-scum or pro-town objectives?), and the answer to that question strongly suggests that Mumble is scum who knows (consciously or unconsciously) that townies are after him.

I've done all this and determined that the "mistake" tells us absolutely nothing about Mumbles alignment cuz all he did was interpret a post a way that it could easily be interpreted.

[JarJarDrinks]

I think it's completely reasonable to think that Garuga is referring to Mumbles here.

I agree.

@Shoshin Like u totally disagree?

[JarJarDrinks]

In 309, Mumble questions Garuga's read on Invisibility: "why naked vote him instead of asking him to clarify"? Garuga replies in 311: "I was already voting him since 48. I don't think this sort of posting comes from town trying to solve the game. I think it's newbscum trying to discredit me since I voted havingfitz, and Invis's reaction is actually one of the main reasons I scumread HF. The re-vote confirms my read on him and makes my post a bit more flavorful."

When you post it without the quote it looks worse.


These 2 sentences can be 2 completely separate thoughts:

I was already voting him since 48. --------------- I don't think this sort of posting comes from town trying to solve the game.

Emphasize the "this"

[JarJarDrinks]

JJD, I understand how it's "possible" to interpret the post as Mumble did.

Cool move on.

[JarJarDrinks]

@shoshin who else u wanna lynch?

[JarJarDrinks]

Nobody is explaining why this isn't alignment indicative... saying it's not doesn't help me...

I’d suggest playing some newbie games to learn the ins and outs of mafia.

To quote a fairly famous quote.

“To err is human”

That doesn't answer my question.

how about answering mine?

[JarJarDrinks]

What's ur opinions on BBT?

Also got any town reads?

[JarJarDrinks]

Yes I do

Use it in a sentence.

[JarJarDrinks]

Not Voting (6): Havo, Jodaxq, texcat, JarJarDrinks, bacy, havingfitz

Hi.

Can this group do something (preferably vote Shoshin)?

Particularly interested in texcat playing or replacing out since she's pretty much prod dodged this entire game.

is "do something" better than "do stuff" ??

[JarJarDrinks]

VOTE: Invisibility


As people have pointed out, the SvS thing was wierd. Then when questioned about it he says

not really?

i just said it wasn't SvS because it didn't seem like a scum and a scum talking to each other.

But the fact that he voted in the same post implies that he didn't "just" say it.

And then this.

Also I ruled out TvT because at the time I thought that Shoshin was scum.

if this is the case then why ask this:

when did I say that JJD was town

the "Rampage seems VI" line is pretty terrible. In fact everything about him and the Rampage wagon seemed pretty terrible. He was scared af to be anywhere near it but he never really tried to defend anything about him or convince people to vote elsewhere. When Garuga claimed he didn't reevaluate. Didn't propose another wagon or anything.

And just every one of his posts today have been contentless one liners w/ barely any opinions or explainations given.

[JarJarDrinks]

Shoshen might just be ridiculously stubborn town.

[JarJarDrinks]

There's clearly scum in this group of Mumble/Invisibility/JJD/Gustavo, though obviously not all of them, so I dunno. I'd like to lynch within that group, it's just a matter of figuring out who the scum is.

Why is it clear that scum is in that group of 4 players specifically? Is this just your 4 biggest scumreads?

[JarJarDrinks]

that the reason Shosh?

[JarJarDrinks]

that the reason Shosh?

I've explained reasons to suspect Invisibility, you, and Mumble that has nothing to do with you guys voting me or disagreeing with me... Gustavo's suspect because I don't think he's interacting with me in good faith, but he might just be an asshole, hence why I'm actively looking for other perspective.

So like I said, there's nothing about that group of 4 people you named except for the fact that U scumread them?

[JarJarDrinks]

Part of the reason I'm sticking on Mumble is because of how much defense he's receiving from people I suspect, and because of how difficult it is to get a wagon going on him.

Your case is bad. That's the reason U cant get a wagon going on him. Using that as a reason to reinforce your beliefs is beyond dumb.

[JarJarDrinks]

The irony of all the people voting me but calling me bad at this game is that they're all voting town... and it'll be especially ironic if Mumble flips scum...

This doesn't feel like somebody talking about a bunch of people that he believes is scum.

[JarJarDrinks]

Experienced players know the difference between mistakes and scummy behaviour.

For some reason, you are struggling to understand what I'm saying so I'll try again until you actually start representing what I'm saying correctly.

I'm NOT saying mistakes are scummy. I'm saying mistakes are like anything else, a behavior to be analyzed. Experienced players who have any semblance of skill would agree with me.

Sure like anything else, mistakes should be analyzed. I've analyzed Mumbles "mistake" and think it it's not a BFD.

[JarJarDrinks]

I don't like that read mumbles.

[JarJarDrinks]

Who'd be ur #2 lynch mumbles?

[JarJarDrinks]

Between Texcat or BBT. Leaning BBT.

These reads feel kind of random. Feel like explaining em?

[JarJarDrinks]

I actually like Mumble's reads on Tex and BBT. They're probably wrong, but they make sense given his internal logic.

He defended BBT earlier.

[JarJarDrinks]

535

[JarJarDrinks]

Who's down to lynch a lurker?

[JarJarDrinks]

no

u prefer to be lynched urself instead?

[JarJarDrinks]

Invisibility seems like a fine lynch

I think so too.

I'm just worried about tomorrow. Even if he does flip red, we need people to take stances on the wagon (or anything else) so we have more info for the next lynches. There are several inactive players and we should be pressuring em to do things.

[JarJarDrinks]

PEdit - Who you worrie about JJD?

fitz/bacy/tex/havo all have minimaly contributed recently

[JarJarDrinks]

Top 3 scum reads and why.

Seriously Invis, can u answer this please? Aside from shoshen, who else would u want to lynch?

[JarJarDrinks]

That is L-1

[JarJarDrinks]

u can claim if u wanna do something.

[JarJarDrinks]

Make a full claim here BBT. This wishy-washy nonsense aint convincing.

[JarJarDrinks]

well explain further.

[JarJarDrinks]

This feels like some stupid gambit that causes perfectly good games of mafia to get ruined.

Spill what you know BBT. Or come clean.

[JarJarDrinks]

BBT does not seem to be faking it

lol what a coincidence that it also appears to be keeping you from getting lynched today.

[JarJarDrinks]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

well explain further.

[JarJarDrinks]

If BBT is town here then whatever he's doing here probably doesnt tell us much. But if he's scum then the fact that he's doing this right when the Invis wagon @ L-1 is pretty significant

Of the potential scumteams w BBT in the 3 people involved:


1.

BlueBloodedToffee

,

Invisibility

,

Shoshin

2.

BlueBloodedToffee

,

Invisibility

,

Shoshin

3.

BlueBloodedToffee

,

Invisibility

,

Shoshin

4.

BlueBloodedToffee

,

Invisibility

,

Shoshin

I'd say that 3 is virtually impossible and 4 is extremely unlikely. 1 would actually make alot of sense cuz if scum are the 2 leading wagons then u might as well try something crazy.

So whatever happens, I'd say that a red BBT = red Invisibility

[JarJarDrinks]

I'd say that a red BBT = red Invisibility

Anyone out there disagree w/ this?

[JarJarDrinks]

I'd say that a red BBT = red Invisibility

Anyone out there disagree w/ this?

I disagree unless Mumble is also scum, because otherwise BBT could have stuck on Mumble with me instead of going for Invisibility.

Not sure this is making sense to me. Why would BBT need to go for someone else at all ?

If Invisibility was town, why not just stick w the mislych?

[JarJarDrinks]

I'd say that a red BBT = red Invisibility

Anyone out there disagree w/ this?

I disagree unless Mumble is also scum, because otherwise BBT could have stuck on Mumble with me instead of going for Invisibility.

Not sure this is making sense to me. Why would BBT need to go for someone else at all ?

If Invisibility was town, why not just stick w the mislych?

Yeah, exactly. If BBT is scum, it damns both Invisibility and Mumble. The same logic you're using re: BBT moving off Invisibility applies to BBT moving off Mumble.

I don't think BBT is scum, but if he is, it still means I'm right about Mumble/Invisibility.

I don't understand why ur throwing Mumbles name into the mix.

I asked if anyone disagreed with red BBT = red Invisibility and you said you disagreed but what you're posting recently sounds like u agree.

If you disagree, then explain to me the scenario where Scum-BBT is partners with Town-Invisibility

[JarJarDrinks]

So you're saying you believe this is possible?

BlueBloodedToffee

,

Invisibility

,

Mumble

[JarJarDrinks]

1.

BlueBloodedToffee

,

Invisibility

,

Shoshin

man I'm good.

[JarJarDrinks]

Well, I didn't receive any fruit. So you were role blocked or redirected or who knows?

Or he's scum?

[JarJarDrinks]

So you're saying you believe this is possible?

BlueBloodedToffee

,

Invisibility

,

Mumble

Shoshin. You've danced around the question enough. Is this possible?

[JarJarDrinks]

BBT is probably a scum PR that his action blocked.

[JarJarDrinks]

Why would scum with a RB roleblock an unknown slot versus a known PR?

The obvious reason is because they were killing the known PR.

That's a bad reason. They can keep a known PR useless while PR hunting elsewhere. That's Mafia 101.

Especially since Garuga was not very trusted at all.

Scum don't have a RBer. Period.

[JarJarDrinks]

BBT is probably a scum PR that his action blocked.

Why?

Because he's scum for sure and it looks like hes trying to out a power roll "Golly Gee why would scum block me?"

[JarJarDrinks]

VC 1.04

Shoshin

(3): Mumble, JarJarDrinks, Invisibility

This wagon though.

Do u townread Shoshin?

Yeah, one of my strongest town reads.

I'm claiming Town Loyal Fruit Vendor and I visited Shoshin last night. She should have received fruit from me but she is saying she has no idea of anything. My action only fails if I target scum.

[JarJarDrinks]

Everyone can vote BBT now

[JarJarDrinks]

Did U miss 884? BBT screwed his claim up. He's obviously not handing fruit to his townreads.

[JarJarDrinks]

JJD, you agree that Invisibility is 100% mafia if BBT's mafia, right? Where we disagree is about Mumble's connection?

OMG stop saying Mumbles. Mumbles obviously is not getting lynched today. Not a chance.

How do you not want to want to lynch someone practically claiming a guilty on u?

[JarJarDrinks]

Did U miss 884? BBT screwed his claim up. He's obviously not handing fruit to his townreads.

I don't understand? You're saying the only townie way to use the role is to target scumreads?

You read what he said the role does right?

[JarJarDrinks]

Did U miss 884? BBT screwed his claim up. He's obviously not handing fruit to his townreads.

I don't understand? You're saying the only townie way to use the role is to target scumreads?

You read what he said the role does right?

Yeah, I did. I think I get what you're saying but can you spell this out more clearly please.

He was given a loyalty check role. You use that role to find scum. You don't use it to confirm a townread.

[JarJarDrinks]

It seems to me that using BBT's role to build a trusted town block could be more effective than targeting scum with it.

But he already trusted shosh. It was his top townread.


Also what you said couldn't be more wrong.

[JarJarDrinks]

How could building a trusted town block town block be better than finding scum?

Like U target scumreads with it and then add them to the town block if u were wrong.

[JarJarDrinks]

BBT is probably a scum PR that his action blocked.

Help me understand your line of thinking here.

You think BBT is a scum PR that is making a power move here?
So he incriminates Shoshin to get her lynched?

So he now thinks he can claim he is roleblocked the rest of the game?

This only makes sense if Invisibility is scum here, right? Cause other wise if he's scum and Invisibility is town, no need to make this push.

The PR thing may just be me being paranoid but I feel like he's trying to get a JK to out themselves.

Yes it prob means invisibility is scum too.

[JarJarDrinks]

If someone puts Invisibility to L-1 I'll hammer him

Didn't he just make this whole entire claim because he started townreading Invis?

[JarJarDrinks]

Like someone DID put Invisibility to L-1 and he unvoted and claimed.

[JarJarDrinks]

The fact that BBT and Shoshin aren't voting eachother is hilarious.

[JarJarDrinks]

Invisibilities posting around his lynch makes me think he is town.

What has changed since then ?

Is it the fact that you got a guilty on his counterwagon?????

[JarJarDrinks]

BBT is 100% scum people.

- He is voting a townread

- He's NOT voting someone he has a guilty on.

- He gave a loyalty test to a townread

Get on this this wagon now.

[JarJarDrinks]

I'm like 95% sure that Shoshin is flipping scum here though.

Invisibilities posting around his lynch makes me think he is town.

VOTE: Invisibility

[JarJarDrinks]

Can anybody defend that?

Seriously someone show up and don't vote BBT. I dare u.

[JarJarDrinks]

All that stuff you're pointing out isn't that scummy.

Spoiler:

[JarJarDrinks]

If you don't think that voting for people that you townread is scummy then you need to find a new game.

[JarJarDrinks]

Shoshin, are u really banking on the fact that town has a jailkeeper, a tracker, a fruitgiver AND that the jailkeeper targeted BBT last night?

[JarJarDrinks]

Motion Detector *

[JarJarDrinks]

Judge Joseph Dredd replaces Jodaxq.

Can I protest this username?

[JarJarDrinks]

BBT claimed Loyal Fruit Vendor and claims to have given Shoshin fruit which Shoshin says she didn't receive.

So Shoshin is guilty or BBT got blocked.

try again

[JarJarDrinks]

Dredd. Read 920.

[JarJarDrinks]

Also he says he used his loyalty role on his top town read.

[JarJarDrinks]

At least we know BBT/Shoshin can't be scum together.

It's actually very possible. My going theory right now is bbt invis shosh

[JarJarDrinks]

Phone posting so just gonna give a TLDR version till I get to a computer.

2 leading wagons are scum invis and scum shoshin so scum BBT makes this crazy play cuz scum is getting lynched anyway.

[JarJarDrinks]

Tell me we just lynched outside of 1v1?

[JarJarDrinks]

Slow down people. Obviously shoshin is the lynch today. But let's talk associations and stuff.

Someone unvote please

[JarJarDrinks]

We haven't seen anything but town flips. I'm not sure what good associations are going to do is at this point.

But we're lynching scum today.

Sure we can wait till the flip but if I get killed tonight I want my thoughts out there first

[JarJarDrinks]

Jarjar, you are the one wanting to discuss. What do you have to discuss?

Well I wanna ISO people, especially shoshin obv. There's no reason to rush the day.

[JarJarDrinks]

Will do a proper reread and post thoughts tomorrow. Please dont put @ L-1 untill then.

[JarJarDrinks]

The game is likely unwinnable if ur town so I'm not gonna spend time discussing it. Also cuz ur not town.

[JarJarDrinks]

I want my thoughts out there first

After I post tomorrow, we'll lynch. Like I said, no rush.

[JarJarDrinks]

I want my thoughts out there first

After I post tomorrow, we'll lynch. Like I said, no rush.

You're posting now, so...

Like I said, waiting does no good.

It allows scum to plan and create. So...yeah. Let's wait.

I'm posting now cuz I got a few mins. I'd like to spend some time ISOing poeple when I have more time which wont be till tomorrow.

Please give an example of how scum having extra time allows them to "plan and create". WTF does that even mean?

[JarJarDrinks]

VOTE: Shoshin

L-1

Are you very against waiting a day to lynch?

[JarJarDrinks]

I will throw this out there:

If shosh somehow flips town then scum has a roleblocker and we can be pretty certain they blocked BBT and Bacy is lying about having fruit.

There's no way scum would let BBT give fruit and confirm another towny.

[JarJarDrinks]

The state of thought here is so fucked. Like, I don't get how a bunch of townies who keep mislynching and voting townies decide that they need to be even more closed-minded than they've been and refuse to consider any possibility that they're lynching town again... and even worse, shut down any attempts by the person getting lynched to try figuring out the game... it's like what the fuck?

Fair point. I wont shut down conversation as long as ur not trying to talk urself out of the noose.

If u wanna talk about stuff that's fine but end result is u have to hang today.


Going to reread stuff now.

[JarJarDrinks]

This is all presupposing a shoshin red flip:

Townies - Do Not Lynch

Gustavo

- There is no way in heck that Gustavo vs Shoshin was scum theater.

bacy

- She got the fruit. Since everything has pointed towards scum not having a roleblocker, the fruit claim should be treated as legit. I don't agree w alot of how BBT played but this was a great move if it's what happened.

Mumble

- For similiar reasons as Gustavo. There was less emotions so I suppose it could be scum theater but shoshins 822 and subsequent posts feel like he's slipping that mumbles is town.

Could be scum

Havo

- I don't like that he right away started asking about a jailkeeper after the fruit claim. It's trying to plant seeds of shoshins innocence.

havingfitz

- He went from voting shoshin on day 1 and the start of day 2 to townreading by the end of day 2. Super susp.

texcat

- IDK he hasnt said or done much this game and hasnt really talked much to or about shoshin.

Lynch this:

Judge Joseph Dredd

- See Gustavos post about him playing the "too dumb for scum" card. There's just no way in hell he comes to the the conclusion that shosh is town and not address BBTs guilty on him. This is the next lynch for sure. Even if by some chance shosh doesnt flip scum it's the next lynch.

[JarJarDrinks]

might as well let shosh claim if she wants

intent to hammer

[JarJarDrinks]

BBT claimed Loyal Fruit Vendor and claims to have given Shoshin fruit which Shoshin says she didn't receive.

So Shoshin is guilty or BBT got blocked. Which is more likely? Has BBT been solidly present on D1?

Doesn't even consider that BBT could be scum.

[JarJarDrinks]

Ditto Tex. Where's the townie paranoia that BBT is scum fake-claiming?

I wasn't role-blocked. I don't think I would have been high on scum's priority list after my D1.

I had to look up Loyal in the wiki. It says that if you target scum, it will be the same as if you were role-blocked. So either someone else has your pear and could confirm the redirection, or you were role-blocked, or your pear went to scum, either Shoshin or redirected to scum. Ugh.

[JarJarDrinks]

VOTE: Shoshin

[JarJarDrinks]

No twilight talk?

[JarJarDrinks]

Well, I'm town. So... you might want to start reevaluating.

If this is really true then scum has a roleblocker and bacy is probably lying. And it makes dredd look even worse then he already does.

[JarJarDrinks]

then why did u vote for BBT shortly after? Was my case that convincing ?

[JarJarDrinks]

It's so ridiculously hard to lynch lurkers on this site though.

Site meta has to change.

I made a weak effort for a lurker lynch but was promptly shut down. I agree that lurker lynches should always be on the table.