mini 2013: the chorus of i'll call b4 i cum mafia (all done)

[LuckyOtter]

VOTE: Tchill13 Let's see just how tchill you are.

I don't make anything out of the unabombah vote from ruby. They made a regular vote first and the number vote (clearly a joke) second, so I wouldn't take it as hiding a wagon vote.

Azurit, is your Dunnstral vote random?

[LuckyOtter]

after a great deal of consideration i've decided that i'll be treating luckyotter as town until proven otherwise. congratulations.

Hooray

VOTE: profii

Interaction between profii and azurit seemed a little contrived to me, but I won't go too hard on that. Random voting for being bad dog.

this seems like the only interaction at this point. Why even point it out?

to hopefully kick off a wagon following my ultimate clusterfcuk of an entrance to this thread I would guess. (...) I know someone will say OMGUS but

I'd vote for the same reason if SIV followed a natural scum hunter onto any other player so nope

VOTE: SIV36

I'm having trouble understanding the bolded bit. SIV says his vote on you is 3/10 serious (which does merit at least a little explanation, see below), similar to Azurit's response to my question about her vote on Dunnstral...

@LuchyOtter Depends on how you define a random vote. There is an obv reason why I choose Dunnstral and not someone else, but it is a very smal reason and I would not vote him outside rvs.

...so what is the reason you are voting SIV and meanwhile ignoring Azurit?

--

SIV, what exactly looked contrived? I'm not seeing whatever Tchill is referencing.

--

Tchill does seem, in fact, fairly chill, so UNVOTE: Tchill13

--

Meanwhile, Ruby casually and cryptically votes Dunnstral (the rules do say "no cryptography," btw). What makes Dunnstral's post 69 wolfy?

[LuckyOtter]

VOTE: profii

Interaction between profii and azurit seemed a little contrived to me, but I won't go too hard on that. Random voting for being bad dog.

The heat on profii is interesting but I don't know what to make of it.

"Here is a thing that is happening that I'm a part of, and I shan't say any more about it."

Want to go ahead and make something out of the L-2 wagon that you're on?

--

Mod, has yeasayer confirmed?

I'm curious if they confirmed and are lurking, or legit absent.

[LuckyOtter]

VOTE: profii

Interaction between profii and azurit seemed a little contrived to me, but I won't go too hard on that. Random voting for being bad dog.

The heat on profii is interesting but I don't know what to make of it.

"Here is a thing that is happening that I'm a part of, and I shan't say any more about it."

Want to go ahead and make something out of the L-2 wagon that you're on?

It was mostly an RVS vote. I had little foresight it would balloon into an L-2 wagon.

I asked you to comment on the wagon you were on. Instead, you try to downplay your participation in the wagon.

Then, you briefly switch your vote to Koki with faulty reasoning, and immediately after that falls apart...

Sorry Koki.

VOTE: profii

L-2 !!

So

now

can you make something out of the wagon that you're on?

[LuckyOtter]

I mentioned mari because she posted right before I posted again, and upon an ISO, she looked odd. Then again, I don't know anyone's playstyles in here. Is that how she plays?

Odd how? Still doesn't really answer the question of why mention it in your post when there are other people on the profii wagon who you could have looked into. You never really explained why you're voting The Worst either as opposed to one of the others on the wagon.

I can explain my thoughts more accuratly, if anybody is intrested.

Don't know why you should feel the need to ask this for approval instead of just saying it

Azurit said this first. Dunn was pointing it out.
---
Dunn, I'll bite. Why the Maria vote? Why not vote Azurit if you thought her post was scummy?
---
Maria, what is it about SIV's first few posts that make you say 'eh'?
---
I'm feeling OK about profii atm. I could get on board with a Dunn vote, but SIV needs a wagon.

VOTE: SIV36

[LuckyOtter]

Why are you so hooked on me? I thought I usually could understand peope going through confirmation bias (I get it real bad too), but

the way your wrangling with me is mystifying.

When you ask "Want to go ahead and make something of the wagon you're on!?", I picked up that you implicitly meant that you strongly believe profii is innocent, and that I'm a bad wolf trying to take him down. How can you be so sure of someone's role? And what is it about me in particular that your having a hard time with?

From my position, everyone is nebulous. I have no idea where to start in getting answers yet.

I put my vote on profii because putting pressure on someone is a good thing.

Why is it mystifying that I should keep putting pressure on you? Is that not what you're doing with profii? (I have a question about that... put a pin in that thought)

Here's a summary of why I'm 'hooked' on you:
- You vote profii with a semi-serious mostly random vote (31). Fine. You are asked to elaborate. You do (108), great. This makes sense as an early vote.

- But then you say "The heat on profii is interesting but I don't know what to make of it." (108). This is a strange comment. It feels like you feel forced to acknowledge that you are now on a bandwagon, but you don't want to have to take a real stance on it. So I ask you to elaborate on the wagon you're on (maybe with too much snark--sorry)

- You defend your vote instead of explaining why you think the wagon is interesting (127)

- After a brief vote on Koki, you're back on profii with no reasoning (138), and this is super problematic. Now, your sort-of-serious-but-mostly-random vote is an L-2 vote, which warrants some kind of explanation, don't you think? Apparently not, as you are 'mystified' that I should be questioning you.

- Meanwhile, your explanation for your vote is that "putting pressure on someone is a good thing." I obviously do not disagree, which is why I'm questioning you. But that's just it--my idea of a pressure vote is to get information out of someone (and it has been hard to get information out of you, which is why I think you're scummy). So here is my new question for you:

Since you've placed your L-2 vote on profii, has this revealed any information to you? If so, what? And if not, what is missing?

[LuckyOtter]

I'm not happy about how long it took to get there, but SIV has given a decent response as far as I can tell.

Taking a step back... I could get on board with an Una or Dunn wagon. Una appears to be active lurking. Dunn needs to respond to some things.

Performer has been on my radar since post 92. Performer, you never answered my questions in post 170.

Also, your vote on SIV feels disingenuous. If you were following along, I made it pretty clear I was trying to get some particular responses from SIV, which were provided. Did you not like them? Why not?

Just because someone doesn't share your town reads doesn't merit a vote. If scum, what does SIV stand to benefit from giving a town read on MariaR?

The comment toward TW in 181 also feels very forced.

VOTE: performer

[LuckyOtter]

Why not vote Azurit if you thought her post was scummy?

I never said her post was scummy

I was referring to your posts 114-115. You said Azurit made a "bad post" calling her out for the 'I can elaborate if anyone wants' comment, which I interpreted as you saying her post was scummy. If that wasn't your point, then what was?

[LuckyOtter]

Mod, can we get prods on yeasayer and performer?

Dunn, why try to start a new wagon on Tchill when there are other competing wagons? Especially since your reasoning is entirely based on meta? Feels like distancing to me.

What do you mean that 227 is more than he's capable of as town?

[LuckyOtter]

I feel like koki is an easy lynch and performer took the bait. Koki reads to me like unhelpful town.
--
Performer, my question in 170: You said you didn't understand the profii wagon, and that tw 'and others' were on the wagon for no reason, then you voted tw. So the question is why tw and not one of the others (specifically, unabombah, who joined the profii wagon after tw and before your vote)? I don't see that answer anywhere so if you can point it out, do so. All I can see is that you said that you didn't like tw's posts. Your only read of Una so far is in 311.

Also, "Wagoning is good" (315). What? You voted tw just because he was on a wagon you didn't understand.
--
Koki, do you have reads on anyone else? If you really are convinced profii is scum, who would be likely partners?

[LuckyOtter]

Azurit, Koki has latched onto profii for mostly gut reasons (162). That doesn't help me sort profii. I wouldn't expect scum to be so vocal about a mislynch without providing some reasoning to back it up. I would expect scum to either sit quietly on the wagon and pretend to be very torn or be very vocal but providing some kind of evidence.

[LuckyOtter]

I am OK with {unabombah, dunnstral, performer} right now. I had an early tl on tchill and I honestly don't know how to read profii.

[LuckyOtter]

So let's reward active lurking and make it a viable strategy to get to D2? wth, profii?

Also, just do an iso on Dunn and tell me what you see as town play in there. Here's what I see:
Lurk lurk
"This is me not voting profii"
Lurk lurk
Throws shade at Azurit (114-115, 117), calling her post bad but not offering any other analysis
Lurk lurk
Votes Tchill for

not

lurking enough to be town Tchill (did I read that right?). Says Tchill is pushing an agenda. (What agenda? )
Lurk lurk ignores my questions in 292

Lots of lurking, very little analysis, no questioning. Profii, the better question might be, what has Dunn done to make you unconvinced on voting him?

VOTE: Dunnstral

pedit: back at L-2. Thanks for chiming in there, Siv. Anything else you want to say about it?

[LuckyOtter]

I don’t think Dunn is scum. I think most of the things stated are NAI at best. Just Dunn.

Let me rephrase that. I don’t think Dunn is being rightfully scum read. I’m not like pro town him, I just don’t see him as scummy right now, so it makes me feel scum is on his wagon.

Why not? Is this based on meta? If so, do you have examples, and how confident are you in your meta read of Dunn?

Is there anything specific within this game that makes you think he's not scummy?
--
TW what stuck out to you about Azurit?

[LuckyOtter]

ooh what makes you say Maria in particular? I'm pretty keen to.

Yeah Azurit stuck out to me as well.

This is what I was referencing, TW. Granted I'd like to know what Morality was referencing as well, but there was something about your wording that felt off to me. I'm not super worried about it right now, so this is a pin for D2.


Dunn, why do you say performer is scum? You've not given him any attention before. Is it just his vote or anything else?

[LuckyOtter]

I guess I assumed Morality was going to elaborate anyway? It feels like he's still in catch-up mode. His statement didn't ping me, but yours did, and I've been reading you as town, so I wanted to see if I could make anything out of your response for future reference. It's not immediately useful, so I won't press it.

On that note, I'd rather hear why you think Performer is a better call than Dunn, but I want to hear from Dunn first.

[LuckyOtter]

I'm cool with this.

VOTE: Performer

[LuckyOtter]

Why?

Una. Tchill was on the Dunn wagon, too.

Una and profii. Both of you seem to be voting tchill mostly based on gut reads and his wagon hopping. With less than a day left, this looks more like trying to avoid being on the lynch than trying to rally the troops for a better lynch.

[LuckyOtter]

Slight preference for performer right now but will go Dunn if necessary. I just want to make sure we have the votes to avoid a no lynch. I'll be checking in tonight.

[LuckyOtter]

I'll be rereading tomorrow.

Question for y'all. I don't get why Profii would target Tchill. Profii seemed pretty convinced Tchill was scum, so that would mean Profii would have a pretty good feeling he would die by targeting him. Is that common practice for a weak role? I don't know what else Profii could have meant but it doesn't seem like a logical choice to me.

[LuckyOtter]

Yeah I don't see a plausible alternative here. I'm happy to hammer unless anyone thinks there's anything else worth discussing?

[LuckyOtter]

Going to do a reread, but I don't particularly see any reason to doubt Ruby's claim.

Right now we have:

odd-night rolecop
weak fruit vendor (acts as an investigative)
tracker
2-shot gunsmith (presumably scum)

Gonna think on it actually, seems slightly powerful but I could see it working

Tchill was a roleblocker, which would balance things out and make the tracker claim more plausible, no?

[LuckyOtter]

Vanilla townie here.

So wait why am I getting lynched? Can y'all give me something to respond to?

[LuckyOtter]

Sorry I'm rereading and see why I've been brought up. I mostly get it, but a lot of Morality's read depends on SIV being town and I'm not convinced.

Here's the part I don't understand:

Vote count 1.7

Dunnstral (2):

Azurit, Ruby Red

profii (2):

Kokichi Oma, UnaBombaH

Performer (2):

the worst, LuckyOtter

Kokichi Oma (2):

profii, MariaR

SIV36 (1):

Performer

Azurit (1):

yeasayer

Tchill13 (1):

Dunnstral

the worst (1):

SIV36

not voting (1):

Tchill13


[*]i'll call b4 i cum, i won't just top over out the blue (oooooo)[/list][/b][/color][/area]

Vote count 1.8

Kokichi Oma (3):

Performer, SIV36, Tchill13

Dunnstral (2):

Azurit, Ruby Red

Tchill13 (2):

Dunnstral, MariaR

profii (1):

UnaBombaH

Performer (1):

LuckyOtter

Azurit (1):

yeasayer

SIV36 (1):

Kokichi Oma

MariaR (1):

profii

not voting (1):

the worst

mod notes

[/b][/color]

• yeasayer did not pick up their prod and must be topped over out the blue
  
• like, replaced

Vote count 1.9

Tchill13 (3):

Dunnstral, MariaR, Azurit

Kokichi Oma (2):

Performer, Tchill13

Dunnstral (1):

Ruby Red

profii (1):

UnaBombaH

Performer (1):

LuckyOtter

Azurit (1):

Morality

SIV36 (1):

Kokichi Oma

MariaR (1):

profii

not voting (2):

the worst, SIV36

mod notes

[/b][/color]

• i hope that u do too

So these three vote counts are actually rather telling. Performer is voting SIV in the first one, Tchill is not voting in the second one, performer, SIV, and Tchill are all voting Kokichi. SIV unvotes. This leads me to believe that both SIV and Kokichi are both town.

I'm not sure what SIV unvoting makes you think he is town. It could just be that scum!Siv backed off of a townie wagon once his buddy Tchill joined so as not to be moving along too closely with his scumteam. Tchill obviously didn't care which wagon he was on or who was on it, so I don't think he'd have avoided joining the wagon just because his partners were on it.

Based on PoE I think Siv,

maybe

Ruby is the last scum but I also am still inclined to believe Ruby's claim. VOTE: SIV

[LuckyOtter]

Nope.

I dunno. The game was progressing, and I didn't mind where it was going so I just sat back. I didn't know what the weak meant, that's a big help.

Yes, I'm a newbie doobie.

I didn't know what it meant at first either but it took me all of a few minutes to figure it out on the wiki. It was super duper clear, if you were paying any attention, that the weak part was important.
--
Morality, I really, really don't get why you read this as not possibly coming from scum, or why you're so certain all 3 scum were on the Dunn wagon:

Siv. Anything else you want to say about it?

Eh..not feeling so great about lynching Dunn. I agree, he hasn't helped town very much, but he also hasn't done anything

that

scummy fmpov. I think he might flip town.

At least, I think he should unload his thoughts on the game before he goes.

Koki is going to quick-hammer dunn. He's at L-1.

Performer is clearly scum so SIV--can you be the voice of my conscience?

Err, I don't make a good Jiminy cricket.

I'm just thinking that it's probably better Dunn gets lynched than we hit deadline with a mislynch. There's very little townie about Dunn, but then again, I don't think he's done anything confirmed scum either.

I worry if we really did enough for d1 and if there could be something important we'll miss right around the corner. Maybe give dunn just a little time to write his last comment before we let him go.

VOTE: Performer

L-2

This trajectory doesn’t come from scum. All signs point towards that Dunn wagon having 3 scum on it.

[LuckyOtter]

Ugh scum!siv doesn't benefit at all defending me here.

UNVOTE: . Need to rethink.

[LuckyOtter]

Awesome, SIV.

Morality, I'm still not super following your logic on SIV. I'm not feeling great about the chances of him being scum but I don't by any means think he is as cleared as you do, so if you can help me understand I can help try to focus attention elsewhere.

Koki actually has a good point, SIV. I've been townread a lot this game and scum could gain some cred avoiding my wagon, especially early on. IF town, SIV really is a more obvious mislynch.

I'm looking over the vote counts again and Azurit looks like a very strong possibility. I need to look at associatives in detail though and can't at the moment, but wanted to get this out there before things move too quickly and I don't get the chance to defend myself. I get that mechanically speaking my D2 was not great, and if you need to clear me out so be it, but at least give me a chance to contribute something before I go. I'll be on later tonight.

[LuckyOtter]

You’ve been town read a lot. Exactly. And Tchill while going down told town to go over you. That was distancing.

Why is what Tchill says going down even worth discussing? This is like, the WIFOMiest thing you could bring against me. You can do better.

Here's what I have to offer:
TW I've been townreading the whole game and if he's scum I will buy a hat and eat it.

Morality might have hard bussed his partners and go through lots of legwork to take control of the rest of the game, but I doubt it. It's too risky. I'm annoyed at his cocksuredness and what looks to be a confirmation bias he has against me now, but I'm not certain there's scum motivation behind it. Not anywhere near enough to be lynch-worthy today or even tomorrow.

I scumread Una early on until he finally showed up and did something useful. I've never been totally convinced, tbh, because a lot of his catch-up posts were pretty hefty walls that ended up looking like a lot of busy-work with a few substantial reads that he highlighted to make it clear that's what he wanted us to focus on (and not the other stuff, like the Tchill vote on Performer). Also, it seems noteworthy that Una was voting Tchill D1 but not D2. If he was 'soul-reading' Tchill so hard why hesitate on D2? But, if scum, that would have been an easy opportunity to bus given that he'd laid the foundation for it, so I don't think Una is a great scum candidate today or tomorrow.

Dunn is another I had an early scumlean on. Apparently I just don't know how to read him?

I still don't get why all three scum would be on his wagon, please explain it to me like I'm an idiot.

Also, I don't necessarily think Dunn is cleared just because Performer puts him at L-1 with a few days before deadline. Tchill was the next best wagon, and Performer had been brought up as a possible lynch, so Performer could very easily have decided to go with a bus D1 to earn some credit.

Koki, literally no idea. The tunneling on Profii really irked me but I had a hard time reading it as scum motivated. I felt pretty good about Koki being an easy lynch and Performer taking the bait, but that would make Koki an easy bus, too. Upon ISO, still have literally no idea. Today, I shared his sentiment that SIV was the obvious lynch today and so have probably been blinded, but Koki was super sure about profii too, so... not helpful. I'm really not sure Koki has tried to be helpful all game. For another example, he says to ignore Morality altogether. From my POV, his reads are not totally correct but that does not make them useless. This sounds a bit like Koki trying to undermine Morality's reads, push the easy Siv lynch, and continue from there.

On that note, I've been all over with SIV. Still not sure what to think. Sometimes I hard scumread him, and sometimes I get where he's coming from as a newer player. This is a true null slot for me right now.

I agree that Ruby's tracking claim will work itself out, but I'm still generally inclined to believe it. It just doesn't seem like scum!Ruby really

needed

to fake claim like that so early when doing so puts the spotlight on them to the end. I'm guessing tracker is probably an obvious fakeclaim, though? Please advise.

That leaves Azurit. She's a good candidate based on vote counts, but also looking at ISOs. Azurit focuses mostly D1 on Koki and Dunn, while doing some soft defending of Tchill (342) before eventually voting him without reasoning (468). This was still D1 though, and imo there was no real danger of Tchill getting lynched then. When the opportunity arises, she switches to Dunn (again without giving any reasoning--523)

D2-D3, Azurit focuses mostly on Ruby, but then leaves Ruby off of her reads list (827). (Aside: Morality reads this list as town because it is too 'political,' which is bonkers because 1.

what is she actually pushing here

? TW is at the top purely by POE and Ruby doesn't figure in the list even though she was pursuing them earlier, and 2. what makes you think, at this stage of the game with the disadvantage the last scum has, that they're going to try to just coast to the end sheeping the same reads as everyone else? Scum have to be a little political to survive, no?)

Pedit: TW and Dunn that's actually a good idea. Instead of waiting for the claim to work itself out later we work it out now.

[LuckyOtter]

Right, so if we agree Morality is town and he does whatever to whomever (did he actually claim something and I missed it?), Ruby should be able to track it and confirm her status.

[LuckyOtter]

Except if scum is someone else, they could just off Morality and we'd lose the rather powerful position we have now.

[LuckyOtter]

Replace me with Koki and go top to bottom and I agree.

VOTE: Azurit

Pedit: live the best of both worlds and see what ruby does tonight

[LuckyOtter]

why would I go to the bottom? :/

?

Also, hold up. How many mislynches do we actually have as a buffer?

[LuckyOtter]

You're going to read scum into anything I do at this point so that you feel better about your vote. I think logically you believe I'm the best lynch (and if I were in your shoes I probably would too), but I kinda think you feel at least a little bit icky about it. So if you want to ignore me right now so that you can clear me out and save everyone from having to sort me out later, fine, I honestly don't blame you, but don't start saying things you're going to have to walk back later, and if you do want to engage with me give me something concrete to work with.

I don't think it's useful for me to just go quietly, so yeah I'm throwing things out to get some responses. And look--I said a thing, Una responded to it, and now that may or may not be useful tomorrow. Are you 100% sure Una is town? I'm not.

Just for you, TW:
Probtown: TW, Morality
Null: Una, Dunn, Siv
Null/leanscum: Koki
Leanscum: Azur, Ruby

[LuckyOtter]

I think scum have plenty of reason to avoid my wagon, so that doesn't really affect my una read.

VOTE: Ruby

[LuckyOtter]

I wanted to go Azurit first anyway. There really is no need to rush a Ruby lynch today.

VOTE: Azurit

[LuckyOtter]

Boo. Was fun playing with y'all.

[LuckyOtter]

Nope

[LuckyOtter]

Wasn't very nice to turn on me d2 either :p

[LuckyOtter]

Nah town will be fine.

Shhhhh I'm dead

[LuckyOtter]

Yay town! Good work. This was a really fun group to play with.

Well played, Una.

Thanks for modding, schadd