Mini Normal 2046: Autumn's Farewell [Endgame]
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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I think it's reasonable to deduce a BrightEyedFish and OkaPoka scumteam.
DrDoLittle, mbaki and Varsoon appear to be the ideal scum pushes today. I suppose being in this game so long tends to make it harder to see through the paranoia which I believe scum are stirring to the point of apathy.
Mbaki and DrDoLittle feel very town based on their attempts to solve the game today with what looks to be genuine thought processes. Varsoon has reason to be genuinely frustrated as he's ping-ponged around the game with scum pushing for his lynch to distract from the actual scum.
Kmd, varsoon, and mbaki I consider cleared from the mass claim. It's possible that one of these could be a mafia goon however, I also townread them for other reasons which I've briefly touched on here. Creature is town.
DDL would you consider objectively looking at your tunnel on mbaki? Do you have strong reason to suspect him that you wouldn't mind sharing?-
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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To elaborate on my OkaPoka scum theory: Oka's entrance was a disaster with no real intent to sort anyone based on reactions to it. The only purpose I could see was to hide behind meaningless content in a way that one might consider 'too scummy to be scum.'
This post sortly after being pushed nullifies and 'too scummy to be scum' theories as it shows a self-consciousness that an non-caring naturally scummy player would not exhibit. Furthermore, this post excuses scum!oka from further contributing to discussion.
When we fast forward to the easy mislynches being pushed today - Oka's stubborness in the mass claim, and his shallow shading of Varsoon, make complete sense as scumplay. I find it difficult to believe that a town player confident enough to open with RVS theory, deteriorates to a "Varsoon wants to claim last because he's trying to out our PRs" argument.
His thinking is not progressing in a towny way, contrary to mbaki and DDL who have created more genuine, and nuanced reads, as more information became available.-
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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*taps nose*
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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I have played a few games on a few sites. I'm not a newbie by any means though, if that's what you're trying to determine.In post 2518, OkaPoka wrote:Moongrass what is your experience with mafia and how much reading have you done?
I have read enough to townread this slot before I chose to replace in. This included going back to first few pages, the massclaim, skimming my own ISO, skimming creature's, and your ISO.-
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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Creature, why are you townreading OkaPoka?In post 2522, Creature wrote:
Varsoon, Kmd or DDL scumIn post 2520, mbaki wrote:Creature, can you post a reads list please?
rest town
I was townleaning Suka before the claim due to the early wagon momentum both on and off this slot. I also liked the "casing is scummy" ideals for town. The massclaim consolidated my inklings into a full-on townread.In post 2526, OkaPoka wrote:You townread suka before her claim?
How is this question giving you any useful information?-
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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Could you point out where my thinking is "???"In post 2528, OkaPoka wrote:Whatever, I think you need to skim isos again because your characterization of slots are just ??? in a lot of cases. Take your time and let it sink in and stuff.
It'll help me to show you clearer thought processes which would be more useful to town than just dismissing all my thoughts altogether.-
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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No. Infact, he has the opposite scum meta. Creature applying his own scum meta to read a player he isn't very familar with is dubious at best. Interesting.In post 2542, mbaki wrote:
This is NAI for many players unless you have meta to back it up. Does Oka have a meta of lowposting as scum?In post 2539, Creature wrote:
PostcountIn post 2537, Moongrass wrote:Creature, why are you townreading OkaPoka?-
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Only scum would need to know who they're up against at this point.In post 2540, OkaPoka wrote:Because I need to know what I'm working with.-
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Creature, a precursory skim of Oka's meta should tell you that Oka has very active scum meta.In post 2552, Creature wrote:unless you're Nancy Drew 39 or MathBlade.-
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Thank you. Could you point out where Varsoon has made scummy responses?In post 2556, OkaPoka wrote:My case on Varsoon does not come down to he's trying to out the prs so it's scum. There is more stuff in there, I think I was pretty clear when I said he's trying to out the prs as supporting evidence but the main reason is his low activity and bad responses to questions. In fact I think that part of my case is the least important part?
I don't see how mbaki is an ideal scum push today. Perhaps DDL. I guess varsoon, but you then again he's scummy so yeah.
DDL and mbaki 1v1 is not nuanced or solv-y. In fact its the opposite. Maybe it started out ok but they ended up slinging mud at each other. I don't get the genuine impression at all.-
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I may get to that point, but for now I'm happy interacting with you as it's only making my read stronger.In post 2562, OkaPoka wrote:I mean at least sit down and read my iso instead of light skim-
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Apologies. I will make them my first priority shortly.In post 2574, mbaki wrote:I don't think you answered my questions from the last page, by the way.-
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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Firstly, I was answering pseudo-valid questions, not defending myself.In post 2541, mbaki wrote:Don't waste time defending your slot please, nobody is lynching you this game.
Who's the second scum if you think one is Oka? And I know this was asked, but how much of the game have you read and do you intend on reading more?
I'm still trying to work out who the second scum is, however Creature does seem to have a point about a possible Oka/Varsoon team due to the amount of what appears to be flailing going on ITT.
I have skimmed enough to be confident in my scumread on Oka. If I have to give you a hard number I'd say I've skimmed 10% of this game. As I've alluded to, I do intend to read more, but for now I'm finding a lot of potentially useful information in the current activity. I have yet to do any real VCA which is the next thing I'd look into.-
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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In post 15, rb wrote:wow mbaki wagon so good everyone should join me imoI'm quite concerned that these early posts from the scum traitor are signalling to the scum team, assuming they were aware they had a traitor.
Even more concerning is the traitor mis-kill for scum, which implies that the team were not aware of the traitor's existence.
Spoiler:
This progression on mbaki makes no sense, so it's logical to conclude that the initial posts from rb about mbaki being "confirmed scum," were indeed signalling posts.
It also appears that rb is chainsawing against the mbaki pushes when he is stuck in a tough spot. From this point onwards, mbaki proceeds to attempt to pocket rb, unaware that he is the scum traitor.
As a brief sidenote: I believe every person that rb listed as being preferable to lynch over mbaki, is town.
Spoiler:
I don't really feel like these pushes on Oka are genuine as rb should've moved his vote or questioned him rather than chastising Oka.
I think rb's signalling, his potential PR lurking, and his weak pushes on Oka may have got him killed.-
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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I'm asking you to kindly elaborate on your DDL scumread, as you skipped over that part in the post I referenced; Or, if it's convenient, you could point to the parts in DDL's ISO that are particularly scummy, and which you think require further investigation.In post 2616, mbaki wrote:
I don't get what you're asking.In post 2613, Moongrass wrote:@Mbaki: could you please explain the DDL scum situation a little better so I can narrow my search?-
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Varsoon isn't towny enough to be scum who made it this far, if that makes sense. I have more ideas about why the current players are here, however I need to complete more pieces to make the argument convincing.
Are we under time pressure?-
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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Nice, that's plenty of time.
VOTE: mbaki
I'd like mbaki's scumread on DDL explained, please.
@Oka: aside from Varsoon, do you have any other scumreads? Could you also talk about why you tunnelled mbaki for the entirety of D2, yet voted BEF in your Day 3 entrance?
@Varsoon: I wouldn't mind some extra pressure on mbaki if you would be so obliging.-
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Are you scumreading them because they voted you, or?In post 2635, Varsoon wrote:VOTE: Mbaki
I still think it's one of Creature/Oka with my chips on Creature but I'll follow.-
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@Oka, do you think that Varsoon fabricated this townslip?In post 2101, Varsoon wrote:@mbaki: I forgot rb flipped scum--there's likely just 2 alive.
Still think we should Mass claim today.-
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I'm partway through Day 3.In post 2643, OkaPoka wrote:hey moongrass, how much of this game have you read?-
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@mbaki: AtE is a tunnel trigger point for me, but let's break down the logic behind your whining.
When you said I was putting my slot in the "shitter," this insinuated that I was going to be scumread. If you meant that I'd be on your shitlist, then I don't really care, or see how that's relevant?
Sadly, I have noticed a pattern over the duration of this game. Anytime someone has stated a scumread on you, you have resorted to attacking the competency of the player, and then the town at large.
This toneshit was particularly obvious when you started "buddying" me, in what I've interpreted to be an attempt at misdirection. You were asking for my help to look into other slots, yet when I started asking about the traitor crumb, and your scumread, your attitude did a 180.
You have no standing from which to attack the competency of other players, when you've been part of the problem that lead the game to this state, and also, when you clearly can't control your own emotions enough to play rationally. This type of behaviour is not conducive to a winning town atmosphere.
If you are town, I ask that you put this whining aside and help me find actual scum.-
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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Villa: Varsoon, Kmd4390, Creature
Limbo: DrDolittle
Wolf: mbaki, OkaPoka
DrDoLittle subs into scum, if either of the bottom two flip town.
Fun fact: scum players familiar with Creature's meta on MS would never leave him alive.
I think that's all I'll be reading for now, since I'm pretty happy with these reads.-
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Varsoon, it blows my mind that you think Creature is scum here. There is virtually no chance that Creature is scum, based on meta and play. He is basically an IC when it comes to late game.In post 2667, Varsoon wrote:I'd be most comfortable with a Creature lynch still, yes.
I agree that there is one scum in the ascetic, and commuter claims. It is not the commuter.
I agree that there is one scum in the VTs. It is mbaki or DDL. Based on tone and play - I'm leaning mbaki.
I'm certainly not consuming any of the WIFOM mbaki is selling. I'm so sure of my townreads that there is no other solution possible except Oka and mbaki; with a slim chance of DDL.
If you would like to lynch Oka instead I could compromise by lynching there, but for the love of god, do not allow mbaki to live tomorrow.-
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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@Creature: how do you feel about an mbaki or Oka lynch today?In post 2677, Creature wrote:Or maybe you're Wisdom?-
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I'm doing what town should do. I'm pushing for a winning lynch chain, if that means diffusing any of the confusion you're throwing into the game and discussing where you're going wrong, then that is what I'll do. Insult away, I'm not here to please you, I'm here to win.In post 2683, mbaki wrote:Please stop talking about me Moongrass. I don't want to get insulty and I am the lynch today, you got your wish.
How can {DDL, Oka} be your solve if you question whether Oka is town?-
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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In post 2682, Moongrass wrote:
@Creature: how do you feel about an mbaki or Oka lynch today?In post 2677, Creature wrote:Or maybe you're Wisdom?-
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You're 100% confident in DDL though, and you won't explain why. Maybe you're a sane jackass.In post 2691, mbaki wrote:Because I am not 100% confident in my reads because I'm not a delusional jackass?-
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That is not an example of me trying to communicate with you. There are examples where you've chosen self-destruction over discussion.In post 2696, mbaki wrote:There is no way you can seriously think this counts as trying to have a discussion with me. The post isn't even directed at me, it refers to me indirectly, implying that it is talking about me rather than to me.
This is an example of me trying to spark a discussion with the town.-
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Mbaki is Mbaki.In post 2698, Creature wrote:Apparently trying to guess who mbaki is is more interesting than the actual game.-
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In post 2008, mbaki wrote:Well, my plan for the day was to lurk and find who I think the last scum is because I think I'm probably dying next. I haven't cleared anybody including Dannflor for ~paranoia~.
That said, because there's a hammer my reads are about this:
Dannflor / Creature*
Varsoon / Oka / Suka
DDL
Kmd
and please don't get unmotivated if we don't lynch right first try, 1 scum to a lot of townies is bad odds and I've seen towns drop games due to apathy that comes with a big early lead.
I WAS waiting, but since the days done:
Kmd, why am I and Suka likely scum to you? Talking about Suka being an odd pick for a Fish partner, and you are now the only player scumreading me I believe.
That leads to Oka, what made you change your mind on my slot?
DDL and Varsoon, you have both done little which makes your jabs at each other amusing to me. Varsoon and Creature, what is overtly scummy about DDL? Why have you been tunneled on bum since day 1?In post 2021, mbaki wrote:
This pings me in a bad way, and that's not snark my friend.In post 2017, DrDolittle wrote:im feeling better about kmd as town.
mbaki's 2008 pings me in a really bad way
Dann has done more analysis than his scum game looks to be capable of, but he is less eye blindingly obvious town than he was in our last game. I've also kind of had a pet theory that Dann townread me as strong as he did on entrance to pocket me. Of course, the flip side of this is he's just a good player and had some correct reads which is town indicative. He even defended Vorkuta a bit and pushed a Fish lynch yesterday if I recall.In post 2012, DrDolittle wrote:feeling real good about dann flipping scum if bef is red.
"He wants us to come to the conclusion that Nero was killed because he was "opposition" to a BEF mislynch, but he can't come out and say it himself"
this seems like something taken directly out of the scum thread
I agree him being scum is a possibility, but I believe this is out of his range is the point of this post. I don't agree with the scum thread stuff, that's not really how people play.@mbaki: This is all I could find which could be seen as relevant to your DDL scumread. I still don't understand your reasons, or why you would be more confident in this read than any other reads you have.
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Ok, thank you mbaki.
Since most of us are scumreading Oka, it makes sense to lynch there to relieve some pressure. I will not be alive tomorrow, but I believe it would be in town's best interest to lynch in DDL, and mbaki, who are almost certainly SvT. Both of these players had strange connections with the flipped traitor RC; mbaki's implications were worse imo.
If one flips town, lynch the other. Simple.
I know that towns do not listen to reads from the dead, but you should listen now.
VOTE: OkaPoka-
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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Nah, more incriminating is his behavior around the mass claim. Suka, a follower, claimed she had a result on Oka before Oka claimed ascetic. Oka also pushed against mass-claim without any real role that could justify resisting mass-claim.
We could also look from the perspective of wagon resistance; multiple people are OK with lynching Oka, and Oka still hasn't reached L-1.
This is much stronger evidence than trying to meta the mod.-
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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I have already provided you with what I believe to be a townslip. When we consider all the players that are here, well mbaki said it better:In post 2731, OkaPoka wrote:You need to explain your townread on varsoon or I cant play bro
It appears that Varsoon is the perfect player for scum to leave until late game.In post 2196, mbaki wrote:I think you are on bath salts or something if you think you'd ever be a night kill candidate for anybody this game.
His tone, lack of self-awareness, and claim, tell me he's town.-
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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Well, look around. We've somehow managed to end up with the majority being lurker slots, and you've not advocated lynching them, or attempted to push them prior to late game.In post 2736, OkaPoka wrote:Yes
This is exactly the set-up that scum!Oka creates. No? Or, has your town game deteriorated lately?-
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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Yes. His insights into both Vorkuta and my slot do not come from a scum mindset.In post 2720, mbaki wrote:Moongrass, completely in isolation what's your Kmd read? Like, if you remove your reads on myself and DDL, is he still town? I'm just covering all bases here.-
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Why are you defending Oka? Why do you scumread Oka?In post 2743, mbaki wrote:In Oka's defense, most slots in this game have been useless, either for most of the game or at one point or another.-
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It would benefit town to think from a scum mindset at this stage of the game.
With two scum left, they are undoubtedly preparing for LyLo tomorrow. They must instill paranoia, whilst distancing from each other, in order to achieve a swift victory.
This is why resistance to an Oka lynch, and DDL vs mbaki, is concerning.
Varsoon clearly has no team. Creature is Creature. Kmd doesn't look to be setting up for anything.
Oka, DDL, and mbaki, on the otherhand are all distancing, while soft pushing each other.
The scumteam HAS to be within these three.-
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Creature, you need to stop being blind to kmd, and Varsoon being town. Have a think about why you're here, and who you've been sheeping.In post 2748, Creature wrote:
FTFYIn post 2746, Moongrass wrote:Kmd doesn't look to be doing anything.-
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You aren't particularly concerned with being convincing enough to get him lynched. I consider that soft pushing.In post 2754, mbaki wrote:I am definitely not soft pushing DDL. Oka, sure.-
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@mbaki.In post 2745, Moongrass wrote:Why do you scumread Oka?-
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I have town kmd meta, nothing to compare it to. If you read his ISO, and look at some of his stances, you should see two things:In post 2757, Creature wrote:
Do you have meta this is town!Kmd and couldn't be scum!Kmd? Don't need to say how.In post 2755, Moongrass wrote:you need to stop being blind to kmd
1. He is not aligned with the traitor, nor does he make sense as a scumbuddy to anyone here.
2. He pushes players, and then gives hard stances that are based on logic I don't see coming from scum.-
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That does seem like a joke in comparison to your nihilistic attitude when I asked for your cooperation. If you are so sure he is scum, why were you ready to potentially game throw by being stubborn towards someone you supposedly townread?In post 2761, mbaki wrote:
Are you kidding? Read the thread before you subbed in. I even got the fucking votes, your slot and then Varsoon joined me, Kmd unvoted me to reconsider, and Creature expressed intent as well.In post 2756, Moongrass wrote:
You aren't particularly concerned with being convincing enough to get him lynched. I consider that soft pushing.In post 2754, mbaki wrote:I am definitely not soft pushing DDL. Oka, sure.-
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Why do you feel the need to continue to discredit my reads for no purpose?In post 2763, mbaki wrote:The first is hilariously assumptive, and the second he does as scum too. A lot. His town and scum games are very similar. I don't really want to go down this rabbit hole because I don't really think he's scum, though.
You are far too manipulative of the game state, and your tone shifts are ridiculous. We lose with you here, town or scum.
VOTE: mbaki-
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To progress on my scum traitor crumb theory, where I've already logically deduced that the normal traitor would very likely have crumbed.
There are only two players remaining who could have been crumbed to:
The progression on both of these from rb, as discussed earlier, points strongly to mbaki, but could also be WIFOM for DDL.In post 335, rb wrote:friendly reminder that drdolittle is scum
In post 416, rb wrote:i'd lynch like 5 other people before mbaki at this point, even though i think Nero is right his play isn't great i don't think the bar is very high right now
Remember this. The traitor very likely crumbed, there is no doubt at least one of these two are scum, if not both.In post 523, rb wrote:
yyottaIn post 422, Varsoon wrote:
Who are these 5 mystery scummers?In post 416, rb wrote:i'd lynch like 5 other people before mbaki at this point, even though i think Nero is right his play isn't great i don't think the bar is very high right now
DDL
brighteyedfish
leodanny
vorkuta
if we're lynching for 'fluff content' or lack of content i think these are all more likely to flip scum than mbaki-
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@DDL: could you give a ranked list of your reads? It would also help to explain why your solve includes Oka, and yet you do not think that he is the optimal lynch?
I've reread a few parts of the game, and I can see a possible scum Creature. I can't shake the almost palpable desperation of Oka trying to rush through today though. (@Oka: I have read your cases...something something pie)
Can you talk about how you 180'd on your reads SOD?-
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Moongrass Mafia Scum
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- Joined: November 12, 2018