Mini Normal 2054: Winter's Sacrifice [Game Over]

[xwing]

im here..not finding much to comment on atm..

Haschels tryharding reads town

i will agree for now..

It's too elaborate to fake

I mean it's not that hard. I have only played one game.

I'm not liking this hardcore defence of me. Feels a bit like trying way too hard to find townieness from what I said. As if he

knows

I'm town.

VOTE: Dannflor

i agree it seems like dann is *trying* to pocket, but his later posts seems fine..

I always believed that naked votes during RVS are Status quo for noob mafia

I naked vote in RVS frequently as either alignment. It's no big deal.

for me, naked votes are NAI this early too..

Gamma is null at best and slightly scummy for not following the game closely enough.
It's not the subject of the vote that I take issue with. It's that it's naked after Dann said he thinks scum are more inclined to post reasons with their votes than not.

@gamma ^
what do you think?

[xwing]

@sasha - strongly agree on dann read

[xwing]

any more takers for a wagon on me?
really, i feel there's nothing much to comment on..
kinda disappointed no questions were thrown my way though..

[xwing]

habit, i guess..it's just the way i've typed in forums..

your slot seemed scummy at the start, but more townie in later posts..
i dont like persivul slot, but that's mostly posting style i think..
bujaber seems town..
roster i've played with and will reveal his townie-ness to me later methinks, but null for now..
i dont have any strong town reads right now, and i have zero scum reads yet..

[xwing]

@dannflor

VOTE: Gamma

Could have just as easily been on Junk. STFU.

i dont really like swearing..

When did it become in fashion to toss around town reads with less than a hundred posts?

Are you guys such bad scum that you can't fake it for that long?

this is just weird for me..i mean did the gods of mafia make a rule that you can only announce your TRs at a certain threshold? this post appears to me like discouraging players from taking early stances..but.. (continued below)

I'll explain later in this post but why is two townreads (the only ones I've mentioned, I believe) "too many?" Reads can change. Also, getting strong townreads early is one of the best ways to pin down mafia by process of elimination.

I don't know about BuJaber, but for me, the issue isn't HAVING town reads. The issue is ANNOUNCING them. Town doesn't need to announce their town reads at this point of the game. Scum could do so to appear to be actually analyzing the game, and for buddying.

..he continues here, and his explanation is okay/understandable, though i disagree..i believe that it's more beneficial for town to give out stances at any part of the game, even if they do change..i mean anything town tries to do, scum will attempt to do anyway..maybe persivul is just the type of player who is cage-y on their reads to try and catch scum or something..while i tend to babble..

[xwing]

What about persivul's style don't you like

Well TBF I am kind of an asshole.

nah you're still good so far, just some style conflict i guess..you havent done personal attacks yet so still good lol..

[xwing]

no questions were thrown my way though..

What do you think is being the cause of your wagon?

errrr what do you mean by your question? i think it was cased quite succinctly by dannflor, and i have to agree..
doesn't really mean im scum though..

I like 127 but am not willing to vote xwing myself yet.

I like 127 but am not willing to vote xwing myself yet.

UNVOTE: xwing
VOTE: Sashaddin

Are you willing to vote xwing now?

Didn't want to be L-2, now I don't care.

VOTE: Xwing

Didn't want to be L-2, now I don't care.

VOTE: Xwing

L-1 in the above, sorry

what changed, sasha?
VOTE: sasha

The xwing wagon also piled on super fast and had two naked votes on it so that should be making you suspicious of its intentions

feel there's gotta be at least one scum on my wagon, though i dont think it's percy..

[xwing]

i will agree for now..
for me, naked votes are NAI this early too..
@gamma ^
what do you think?

Leaves room for backing out.
Nullread.
Not a read.

Maybe it's just the wording but doesn't sound that he's convinced they're townreads.
Nullread on dann.
Not a read.

@sasha - strongly agree on dann read

Strongly agrees on a nullread.

When picking between them I feel sasha is more deserving of the vote because I expect less from an entry post than a regular post from someone following along from the beginning.

Not that I'm excusing xwing but at least he/she can say he/she missed the real time context of being here. What's sasha's excuse?

for the "leaves room for backing out" argument, i think i can see why it can be scummy, but i think i type this way because my reads will not be static, and i expect them to change over the course of time..especially given the very early read of those posts..
also thanks bujaber for playing devil's advocate, but i dont really have an excuse..i read (skimmed) everything before i posted and nothing stuck out (as can be seen on the first sentence of my first post)..so i just replied to posts that i can relate with, sorta like a "yup im here" post..

Yeah last time I played with xwing I scum read them for being to passive and they greened

Yup. I'm very interested in hearing what is so different about their play here. I actually wasn't keen on holding his read to the standard of another game we were all in, I am not a meta guy, but he himself mentioned that game and said town her could do better.

Spoiler:

Egix what is different about xwing in this game compared to last game (Schadd's)?

Let's compare.

From this game:

im here..not finding much to comment on atm..

Haschels tryharding reads town

i will agree for now..

It's too elaborate to fake

I mean it's not that hard. I have only played one game.

I'm not liking this hardcore defence of me. Feels a bit like trying way too hard to find townieness from what I said. As if he

knows

I'm town.

VOTE: Dannflor

i agree it seems like dann is *trying* to pocket, but his later posts seems fine..

I always believed that naked votes during RVS are Status quo for noob mafia

I naked vote in RVS frequently as either alignment. It's no big deal.

for me, naked votes are NAI this early too..

Gamma is null at best and slightly scummy for not following the game closely enough.
It's not the subject of the vote that I take issue with. It's that it's naked after Dann said he thinks scum are more inclined to post reasons with their votes than not.

@gamma ^
what do you think?

And from Mini 2048:

Hello I have arrived.

VOTE: Vote: xwing

Normal day 1 probing.

why do you need to insert the last line (bolded for emphasis)?

I am interested if the following players are interested in pushing the Trivium wagon through to a lynch:


2.Nikk
5.Wagonomics
6.Egix96
9.Robert2424

i dont get this question..who would push through to lynch someone on day 1 page 2/3?

VOTE: trivium

VOTE: trivium

This puts him at L-2. Those are two blind votes on a bandwagon that has no substance.

VOTE: xwing because that was the L-2, but still

FoS

ing Doughboy.

I can agree with this.

VOTE: xwing

disliking egix vote here, reasons below..

VOTE: trivium

VOTE: trivium

This puts him at L-2. Those are two blind votes on a bandwagon that has no substance.

VOTE: xwing because that was the L-2, but still

FoS

ing Doughboy.

what if it's L-2? why does it concern you? does it mean you find the other votes are not blind?
also, why FoS doughboy (henceforth shortened as DB) among all the other voters?

My point is that you two just posted naked votes and no other game content, which
1) takes an oppurtunity to jump on a wagon that seems like it's going to lynch, clearly to try and appear town, and
2) doesn't post any game advancing content for us to try to read them by.
Previous voters did
a)not naked vote, or
b)were on a wagon that just started developing.

do you seriously think someone is going to get lynched on page 2 or 3?
putting trivium in L-2 is giving us game advancing content..do you agree or disagree?
if i put a jokey reason during my RVS vote, would my L-2 vote still have pinged you?
are you scum?
VOTE: goldenparadox

[snip]

Ehh. Just because a wagon forms on someone very quickly, doesn't necessarily mean the person being wagoned is town.

Example I can cite: the beginning of Newbie 1893.

i like the bolded above, and taking note..i did like trivium's reaction to his wagon though..
conversely disliking goldenparadox and nikk slots on their reactions to it..
feeling dubious on egix slot for initially agreeing with golden and voting my slot, then backtracking..

Notice how in the other game, xwing was thinking more critically and not just agreeing with stuff, and furthermore it was based on a smaller (but still comparable) number of previous posts. Here he seems to be lacking that element of original thought, and that's what I'm disappointed by.[/quote]
sorry to disappoint you egix..
i will try to make you proud!! ^_^

VOTE: Xwing

Egix is town btw.

hmmmkay..

pedit: yeah, tchill is also on my sights..
i believe percy, dannflor, egix, bujaber are town..

[xwing]

feel there's gotta be at least one scum on my wagon, though i dont think it's percy..

I don't think it's sash either, based on meta. How about.....
VOTE: tchill

meta is cool but i find it a bit unreliable since people can *mostly* change how they play..
but as i've said, i can see value in a tchill wagon too..

what did you find on sasha's meta?

[xwing]

yeah okay makes sense..
dont bite my ear off, but i think percy is my strong!town FOR NOW.. (wink for bujaber)

[xwing]

Also I find the way the swing wagon formed interesting. A lot of people expressed interest, then they all joined up to vote.

what do you mean by "swing" wagon?

[snip]
Because scum already know the answers, hence they don't really need to analyze it as closely as town.
VOTE: Gamma

LMAO it's been a while since this argument was used on me. I don't think you actually believe this tbh, and are just spouting trite garbage.

not sure about the others, but i semi-believe this argument, and have seen someone use it to out scum..
why do you think this argument is garbage?
with my stance on percy's slot, are you still inclined to think im town? why or why not?

Currently I'd vote any of {xwing, gamma, sash}.

Mhm, I think I found the scum from the xwing wagon, the way you care none for which of us is lynched tell me both are equal in your eyes. This also indicates xwing is town, which I wasn't sure of yet.
Also, why does he see the need to justify himself in his previous post?
VOTE: Persivul

assuming percy is not scum, who else on the wagon would you most suspect? you can order them too (if there's more than one you suspect)..

Fucking hell can we not

Or at the very least tell us why you dont care anymore

i think flub is more likely town..who do you most suspect?

[xwing]

UNVOTE:

Woopsie

what changed?

what changed, sasha?
VOTE: sasha

The fact that pushing you to L-1 would make you vulnerable to lolhammers and quickhammers. We've only started, I didn't my position was strong enough on you to push this hard, contextually.
Now that your wagon has thinned, I can vote a bit more at peace. I'll reread you in our previous game to see how you compare when I have time though.

i find this a bit contradictory..when you initially voted for me, you said you didnt care (your vote placed me to L-1)..but this statement means you do care..

[xwing]

i find this a bit contradictory..

when you initially voted for me, you said you didnt care (your vote placed me to L-1

)..but this statement means you do care..

That didn't happen, that is what I didn't want to happen.

I see you more towny now, your previous game gives me quite the same vibe for now.

UNVOTE: Xwing

i read back and looked at the votes, mb, L-1 never did happen indeed..
but the way you phrased your vote was weird..
what did you mean by "not caring" then?

pedit: @flubbs, i'd like to hear your case on percy please..

[xwing]

Going off of Dann's 210, rooster and tchill are good places to look for another scum

i've played with roster before and i know he can town it up, will wait and see..
never played with tchill yet, FoS on him..

[xwing]

I think roster is town for the early game read change that Dann pointed out.

I’m interested in HC’s catchup

im not yet sold on roster town, but if you and dannflor vouch for it, must be so..anyway will wait for roster to comment some more..
im interested to hear from both HC and JC..
how are you reading gamma?

what did you mean by "not caring" then?

I (didn't) care ... about the L-1 since that was not the case anymore. My vote had less impact (4th I think) instead of sixth. But I was still suspicious of you.

makes sense, just wished you worded it more clearly, coz it read more as you not caring about voting for me..
can you elaborate on your egix/JC town read?
pedit: is french your first language then? i always assumed english coz you're canadian but yeah.. >_<

[xwing]

@slaxx: what do you make of percy? also, can you elaborate on your egix tr? i know you've been historically accurate with reading him, but just wanna know how you came to that conclusion in this game..

@sasha:
no questions on your JC read, though she's more null for me..
got a couple of questions on your egix read..
1) why would you expect egix to distance himself from gamma?
2) what do you mean by his play towards me being different? do you mean compared to his approach with gamma?

[xwing]

you missed the part about percy..what do you make of him?

[xwing]

@HC

Page 5 and 6: Persival's case on xwing looks good, and BuJaber's 128 doesn't look great.
can you elaborate why?

any more takers for a wagon on me?
really, i feel there's nothing much to comment on..
kinda disappointed no questions were thrown my way though..

What the hell is this? There's plenty of stuff to comment on. If the wagon on you is wrong, GIVE US A BETTER ONE. The rest of xwing's posts here are refusing to commit to stances.

i expected town to be trying to sort me more by questioning me..but im really disappointed it didnt happen..also i wanted to see more takers so we can out at least one scum, so this was intentional..
is your view of me still as someone refusing to commit to stances after finishing your reading?

Page 7: Stop asking other people about yet other people's metas.

Oh hey Gamma is back with some garbage posts. Egix offering reasons for not following the game isn't great, but admittedly it's not much.

Persivul is officially the towniest person in the game at this point.

why is percy townie for you?

Page 9: Why is tchill in your sights, xwing?

Ah good, Dannflor noted the problem in Gamma's statement about the xwing wagon.

Quoting across games is stupid painful on mobile. I'll have to cite my xwing stuff later.

Please don't.

Do, however, elaborate on your Persivul "look[ing] like scum for other reasons" since I'm not seeing 187 as particularly strong, especially considering what's going on with xwing and Gamma.

i feel like there's at least one scum on my wagon, though it didnt reach L-1..
tchill is on my sights because he's one of those in my wagon, and i dont have much of an opinion towards him, and most other people also dont (correct me if im mistaken)..
roster at least has some people tr-ing him, though as i said, im not convinced of his townie-ness yet..
sasha, im currently engaging with..

[xwing]

@xwing Gamma is scum, kill tyvm

why do you think so again, JC? you changed your avi!

[xwing]

got a couple of questions on your egix read..
1) why would you expect egix to distance himself from gamma?
2) what do you mean by his play towards me being different? do you mean compared to his approach with gamma?

1- Both would be scum
2- The angle he used wasn't the same for both people, imo.

@sash, what do you mean by number 2? how was it different?
im not a fan of a scum!sasha anymore..
UNVOTE:

Yeah I'm still fine with my xwing vote. Especially considering it went from the leading wagon and the game turned to multiple wagons with multiple votes. That means we're pretty divided on where to go. All ik is ppl don't want xwing lynched atm.

hey tchill, what do your reads look like now?
do you find my individual play scummy?
VOTE: tchill
===

im okay to lynch {gamma, tchill, roster} atm..
i will switch to gamma if needed for lynch

mod did not specify how many scum we have this game right? last mini i played (2048) we had 3 scum, not sure if it applies here as well?

[xwing]

why do you think that a specific counterwagon is the natural thing to occur?
i disagree about votes still in RVS, but im pretty sure people dont want to end the day yet..
when are you going public with your reads then?

[xwing]

ebwop: post 268 @tchill
@sasha: noted, though i feel it's because egix has just recently played with me so he has some expectation on my slot..whereas im not sure if he has played with gamma yet..

[xwing]

Btw Xwing is low-key scumreading me without giving any reason whatsoever.

Probably I will have time on Friday to give a proper post about my thoughts, and if not definitely Saturday.

yes, which is the same as what you did with me, so im not sure where you're going with this?
will wait for your catch up then, got high expectations..no pressure :p

[xwing]

i like it.. ^_^

im fine with a gamma wagon, consider this post like a vote in spirit for gamma for the record..
what i find scummy with gamma:
1) acknowledging there might be scum in my wagon, but choosing percy out of the more questionable ones (e.g. tchill and roster)
2) the garbage comment re skimming in 181, downplaying the reasoning when it's perfectly sensible..
3) posts about nothing important (e.g. about try-harding)

i wanna hear from tchill and roster too, but i can only vote one at a time..

[xwing]

[snip]
im fine with a gamma wagon, consider this post like a vote in spirit for gamma for the record..
what i find scummy with gamma:
1) acknowledging there might be scum in my wagon, but choosing percy out of the more questionable ones (e.g. tchill and roster)
2) the garbage comment re skimming in 181, downplaying the reasoning when it's perfectly sensible..
3) posts about nothing important (e.g. about try-harding)
[snip]

Okay how is the tryharding thing “nothing”? It looked like Persivul was trying to scumpaint that suggested discrepancy in ideology.

tbh, i didnt find it helpful as an argument for a scum!percy..i find it more like a semantics thing..
out of all the points, why did you only selectively respond? and that was my weakest point too..you only respond to accusations you deem defensible?

im not a fan of a scum!sasha anymore..

Why?

VOTE: Gamma

im satisfied with the responses i got from sasha after interacting with him real time..the initial scum vibes i got from him was from his "dont care" comment, though after clarification it's been sorted out..

===

i think flubbs hard defending gamma comes more from town!flubb..though i wish he let gamma defend herself before chiming in..
slaxx is super townie..i like how he explains his reads/thoughts..you never disappoint..he's my strongest town read now..on the flip side, we know what happens to super townie players..

@HC, not sure why you find my reasons for scum!gamma lacking, when we share half the reasons, but whatever..

@roster: waiting for your catch up, dont disappoint..

anyone wanna interact, im here for a couple of hours more..

@mod: i'm regularly on V/LA on weekends (it's friday here my time now)..

[xwing]

anything you'd want clarified, then?

[xwing]

Sure. You are currently voting for tchill. Why?

im working on the assumption that there's at least one scum on my wagon..as i know that i'm town..
among those who voted, i find tchill's and roster's votes the most suspicious, simply because they were naked in a sense that they didnt mention their reasons, or sheeped other people's reasoning without providing their own..

between tchill and roster, i picked tchill, since i've played with roster before, and i know he can town it up (i've played with him once before and he was my strongest tr that game)..

tchill's responses dont really satisfy me, hence my vote is still there on him..i specially dislike the "im not going to share my reads atm" part as i deem it anti-town..

what do you think?

[xwing]

yes, which is the same as what you did with me, so im not sure where you're going with this?
will wait for your catch up then, got high expectations..no pressure :p

Spoiler: roster's post 296

Except it's not. You're trying to scumread me without scumread me. I just scumread you.

Now, my only experience with Xwing is in my only game (viewtopic.php?f=11&t=78151). While Xwing was not the most active player (a lot of stuff happened on weekends), I got a consistently townie feel. There was a lot of posting from what others have said and ..'s etc which is happening here, but there was an assuredness about him, and a transparentness about the thought process. Then when people started calling him out on the lack of thought, there was a conscious shift to try to change perceptions. I'm talking 200 where he just randomly calls a bunch of people town. And then there's the pretty bizzare read on me, where he goes from seemingly null in 227 to suddenly including me in his list of three scum, and not giving any reason whatsover for what feels like an evolution in his reads (and Xwing said explicitly at the beginning that he likes evolving his reads openly or something.

Tomorrow I will have a proper catch-up. The only posts I seem to be able to understand at the moment are X-wing's (hence why this is focused on him), which is slightly concerning giving that English should be my first language.

i'll be able to read on your "proper catch-up" on monday then..
anway, im not sure what you mean by "im scum reading you but not"..
you could say that i highly suspect you, though my TRs (specifically slaxx and dannflor) townreading you makes me rethink, though im still not sold on town!roster, hence waiting for your proper catch-up..
also this little catch up didn't clear things up for me, in fact it makes me doubt you more..the attempt to meta me is similar to what egix did, but i didnt feel the townie-ness from you compared to when egix did it (not sure how to articulate this..more on gut maybe? wording?)
also not sure why it's easier for you to read how/what i type compared to the others when i have a tendency to wall post..

TLDR: you're null-scum for me and not getting better atm..

[xwing]

okay..i dunno what your question there is, if any..i mean if you're still suspicious of me i expected more follow up questions..im going off in an hour and will be back on monday, so if you've got further doubts better hash them out now..
on that note, what are your reads, HC? i remember scum!gamma on top of my head..were there more?

[xwing]

among the wagons (xwing, gamma, tchill), who do you think deserves your vote, flubbz?

[xwing]

you're not flubbz!
since you're here anyway, what do you think of HC?

@mod: sorry, monday is a holiday, so i'll be back on tuesday

[xwing]

scum

i wished we asked why before he died lol..

@JC: why sasha?
@percy: why bujaber? what do you think of gamma?
@gamma: what does your read list look like?

[xwing]

I’m scumreading Sash again, especially if tchill flips red here.

ebwop, meant to quote above, was searching for "scum" while ISO-ing slaxx..

[xwing]

@dannflor, why bujaber and sasha for you?
===
i think roster and gamma are scummy, and i cant see what's scummy with buj and sasha from the top of my head..
will do an ISO read of them later tonight..

[xwing]

@percy yeah i saw your post, will take a second look at bujaber later..

@sasha: what are your reads now?

@dannflor: follow up question, why is roster and gamma town? they're my two scum reads..
gamma is hard to sort for me, so by virtue of being on my weak read side of things, im fine with her..
roster is scummy for me the same way tchill was, though on a lesser scale..like i believe he's set on me being scum because he's afraid to back out now..i think town would be more likely to reassess slots and i find it a bit hard to believe im still *that* scummy 17 pages in..

[xwing]

Ok. I do feel as if I've been somewhat of a spectator, so I'm just going to do this from the start.
[snip]

@roster: why is your use of spectator here okay, but you found bujaber's suspicious?

There's at least one mafia between rosterfoster and sasha I'm scumreading sasha more tho.

inb4 you are just omgusing.

preventive answer: no I'm not

nah i dont think you're OMGUSing..if there's scum between roster and sasha, i'd pick roster though..im only second guessing myself coz percy and dann (strongest townreads after slaxx) are not with me..if there was a bus on tchill wagon, it's roster..

and i really want you to articulate what you find scummy..i want to read it from your own words..

[xwing]

im only second guessing myself coz percy and dann (strongest townreads after slaxx) are not with me..

Percy, I get. Why Dannflor?

dann has been consistently questioning everyone in this game and is not afraid to defend his reads..he's not the least bit fence-sitty..

I’m scumreading Sash again, especially if tchill flips red here.

IMPT:

percy already has noted this, but for the others, please take note that slaxx took back this scum read, as he misunderstood what sasha said..

Uh yeah between slaxx's read, the wagon dynamics, and whatever the hell 408 just was,
VOTE: sash

hence, im not too enthused about the above from flubbz..
why do you think sash is more scummy than roster/buj?

And I have never seen in my life a townie that builds up a huge case on their top scumread only to vote someone else before. So I don't understand your townread on rooster at all. It shows lack of conviction in his own case.
VOTE: rooster

im conflicted on roster slot..im leaning more on scum who bussed tchill..
im agreeing more on buj's case against rather than dann's case for town!roster atm..
but if buj flips red, i think roster is green..

[snip]
Also, I feel somewhat better towards Xwing today.
Other scum may well be Sash, but also 430 from Junko makes me feel bad. It would be so odd for scum to say something like that though, so IDK. Just why would a townie vote for someone they think's town? When they have actual scum reads.

why have you changed your mind on me, after i called you out on it? it only makes my paranoia of you stronger..

Let's get some intent on Blu. Assuming this goes through, I'm targeting sash tonight.

Junko, are you saying this post was meant for scum PT? Or are you referring to something else?

Could be, maybe I'm reading too much into it

you're reading too much into it, methinks..
also, thanks for your explanation on 417..i believe JC is town, her explanations for town!percy and me are original and makes a lot of sense..though i didnt like the role fishing..

====
@HC @gamma, anything to say with regards to the recent developments please?

@buj: intent to hammer, please claim..

im against a sasha lynch, and agree with egix he's more likely awkward town..
i'm fine with either a buj or roster lynch, but dann is too adamant with defending roster so i'm fine with this compromise..both percy and dann are casing buj so spearheads are good..

[xwing]

oh one more thing, i like dann's post 452 regarding buj's overexplanation of reads [paraphrased]..i had the same feeling when i re-read buj's ISO..in my last concluded newbie game this tell was pretty accurate in catching scum..

@pedit: sash, i meant the ones who started the wagon on buj (e.g. percy and dann) are very townie, and i feel there's no scum agenda, so it's a good wagon to join fmpov..

[xwing]

ebwop: sorry, missed that sasha already declared intent, sooooo consider me in the buj wagon in spirit as well..

@flubbz: what do your reads look like now? what's your opinion on sash, roster and buj?

[xwing]

why have you changed your mind on me, after i called you out on it? it only makes my paranoia of you stronger..

You have returned to Xwing from our last game. I'm still not overly happy (though this now comes completely from my gut to your start), but people play better/worse all the time, so I'm no longer convinced by the meta reasons.

how exactly? besides the meh entrance, i think i've played as i've always done..can you articulate it more please?

@pedit: sash, i meant the ones who started the wagon on buj (e.g. percy and dann) are very townie, and i feel there's no scum agenda, so it's a good wagon to join fmpov..

You are missing someone from the start of that wagon...

But you scumread them, so that wouldn't work.

i dont scum read them? in fact, i've stated they're my strongest town reads..i dont understand what you're getting at..
also, i've stated that buj flipping red will most likely make you flip green, havent i?
though i should also add that buj flipping green wont look too good on you too..
so far i believe you can town up better than this, but as you said and i agree, different plays for different games..and im not really fond of using meta..
my beef with you mostly was how long it took you to change your stance on me..i felt like it was a hill you were willing to die on, similar feel to tchill's stance..and we know how tchill flipped..

pedit: @sash: tell me how dann's not obvtown from the above posts..
anyway, im mostly unsure with {buj, roster, flubb}..
also unsure about gamma, but investigative should take care of that..
sash can be checked as well, though im leaning town on him, really..

[xwing]

oh okay, i missed the sarcasm part..
it's just that percy's and dann's cases for buj i can remember from the top of my head, yours i dont..
lemme ISO you a minute to find your case..

[xwing]

still interested in knowing why you 180ed so fast into a meh vote like Bujader right after putting tchill at L-1 this kind of interaction could say a lot if tchill flips scum I just did this same exact thing as mafia last game I played lol

i also thought this was a good case against scum!roster..
reading back on your posts, you were consistent with a scum!buj though, i'll give you that..
im not as convinced now of scum!roster, though im still not clearing him..kinda hard given my deep suspicion of him..but im trying..

pedit: yeah, it's quite similar, and i do agree with your points as i do with percy and dann's..
what's your scum reads now besides buj then?

[xwing]

Well yeah I mean you have been recently. That's kind of what I said.

yeah i know, but can you be more specific, like how exactly? which posts from me did you like or find townie?

@sasha: fwiw i dont think you and JC are scum..who's in your scum radar right now? also, im not going to hammer now til bujaber claims and answers dann's question..see post 481

[xwing]

Meh. Sashaddin vs. Junko is feeling more town vs. town.

(also you guys scum read each other, it's fine, no need for attacks)

^seconding..

Confusion

Also, I feel somewhat better towards Xwing today.

Other scum may well be Sash, but also 430 from Junko makes me feel bad. It would be so odd for scum to say something like that though, so IDK. Just why would a townie vote for someone they think's town? When they have actual scum reads.

Personally I would feel more than "somewhat" better re:xwing, considering that it seemed to me like Tchill was trying to send that guy to the shadow realm.

"Other scum may well be Sash" Nah, I really don't think that's likely. Lynching scum Day 1, and then managing to have w/w wagons early on on Day 2? Chance of that happening is slim to none.

egix, how do you feel about roster?
===
re: roster, i still dont feel good about this slot..though i admit i may be in a tunnel..
i think the buj wagon having no resistance at all is a red flag, so i want more time to discuss..can someone please unvote?

But the hammer attempt on day1 is still suspiciously scummy to me.

Think it through. Why would scum want to do something that draws so much attention? What's Junko's motivation to quick hammer her own buddy before there's even a claim and a chance for him to survive? 9/10 that move comes from frustrated or YOLO!town than scum from my experience.

I know quickhammers have been done to deny town the opportunity to debate strategy by forcing the day to end abruptly. Not often but I've seen it.
Regarding the attention, I survived my last scum game by doing the opposite of what a prudent player would have done so here I was open to anything.

both makes sense, but im more inclined to believe town!JC..

[xwing]

intent to hammer

im conflicted on flubber..the vca looks bad, but he did give the intent to hammer..and his ISO didnt look bad..i just cant seem to remember what he's said so yeah..prolly wise to wait for other's opinion (ahem, @HC)..
i got scum leans but im not too confident on them all..
{roster, gamma, buj, flubbs}
do you guys think there's at least one scum on buj wagon?

pedit: thanks egix..

[xwing]

buj wagon for reference (before egix unvote):
=====
[5] BuJaber: rosterfoster (393), Persivul (397), Dannflor (423), Egix96 (427), JunkoChan (451)
add Sasha and Xwing for giving intent to hammer..

[xwing]

im not totally against a buj lynch, i just feel really icky on roster slot..
anyway im kinda excited to see what's on HC's mind, will generate more discussion methinks..
how many days do we have left? was 9 days accurate?

[xwing]

my beef with you mostly was how long it took you to change your stance on me..i felt like it was a hill you were willing to die on, similar feel to tchill's stance..and we know how tchill flipped..

I mean if this was the reason then OK, but it seems pretty shallow.

297
298]
til now i still feel you haven't towned it up..
also, reasons dont have to be deep for them to be valid..i mean we even give credit to gut feels..
as reference, the first time i suspected tchill was based on his naked vote, which is as shallow as shallow can be..his follow up actions only made him as scummier though so that made it easier for us..

[xwing]

the lovers mafia example was bad, there's too little to go on with..
i reread an ISO of you in our newbie game 1908 and the feel is different from how you are here..
for reference:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=78151

also, scum reading someone *might* go deeper over time, but does not always have to be the case..
i think im better at town hunting, then assigning them confidence levels..the weakest town reads for me i make as scum reads..

right now, you're one of my weakest reads still..besides buj and flubber, and gamma is just null..i think the two remaining scum are in my short list..

why are you focusing on me, instead of trying to engage with others as well?
dann did TR you earlier, but he's now suspicious of you too, but you havent engaged with him why exactly?

VOTE: roster
to put my actions where my mouth is..

[xwing]

well i would agree that sash was really different..
i believe he should play more charismatically regardless of his alignment though, i mean i think charisma plays a part in the gut reads and how people perceive you..wow im honestly pleasantly surprised!

i've played with town!sash once (together with town!egix) and sasha seems the same to me--a bit fence-sitty, cautious and quiet..though take this with a grain of salt as sasha seems good with adapting lol..

@dannflor: ditto..also hope buj will pop in..still feeling optimistic with an HC promised read though..also i still dont get how people are reading gamma as town..i mean if she's playing like this as town then it's incredibly lynch-baity and i reckon it's better to do a policy lynch now rather than later..she's never going to be the NK..

@mod:

i'm off in about an hour or so, will be on my regular weekend V/LA..

[xwing]

Read Tchill ISO real quick and xwing is prolly town because I don't think Tchill's push there looks like a bus

can you ISO someone else, maybe buj or roster and tell us what you glean from those? i dont think expressing town!xwing is gonna help us much as i dont think im gonna be a wagon anytime soon, considering almost everyone TRs me (i think only HC and roster are really suspicious of me atm)..

i think the buj wagon having no resistance at all is a red flag, so i want more time to discuss..can someone please unvote?

...you do realize this

is

the resistance to the wagon...right?

This is such a stupid thing to say
I've considered this myself several times making the resistance argument several times and never once have I regarded it as a valid point. Up to the point of the statement there's minimal resistance. The statement itself I'd not included.

@flubbz: yeah what gamma said..BUT..
@gamma: what are your stands/reads on this game? between the bad prodge and making info posts like this which dont really do anything to scum hunt, it makes me feel you're scum trying to pocket me..i still dont get the townread on you, i think it's null at best, but im leaning scummy on you..

Can we talk about how 433 is so manufactured?

how so?

You entire ISO is a "DAE" meme.

what does DAE stand for? first time seeing this acronym..

======
pedit: i dont think buj v roster is s/s now..
kinda disappointed we didnt hear anything from HC yet as i wanted to read a fresh take on this..kinda worried it might be TvT but i dont think this is likely eh?

[xwing]

how bout flubber > HC > roster > sash then?
flubbz you the last scum?

[xwing]

roster is town..he's been on to buj since the start, and i dont think it's scum theatrics too..
so {flubbz, HC, sash, gamma} is my pool..

[xwing]

Eh. Let’s go Flubber > Hasch > Sash unless there are any objections

This is fine.

fine with me too, i'm okay to claim after these 3 have claimed..
VOTE: flubber

[xwing]

L-2 btw..

[xwing]

Flubber just claim next time you're on, don't wait till L-1

I don't wanna lynch here until we have all the info on the board, gotta get that perfect game

^ditto..
but dann you're not supposed to say the second paragraph..you're gonna jinx it..

[xwing]

oops sorry I ruined everything (

woohoo perfect game didnt get jinxed!!

He isn't lying in his claim. I can confirm that.

But why does town have an informed role about town PRs?

However, does Goon + 1-shot Encryptor + Informed Goon make sense balance wise?

Wait wait WAIT

You FUCKING KNEW I was informed and still wanted me to claim first?

Are you FUCKING kidding me??????

^this was a good maf post..im glad i wasnt around that time, i could have been swayed..though chances are very high the lynch would have still pushed through as percy was very adamant..

BTW, I recently played a micro reviewed by schadd (as this one was) in which town was overpowered. I was scum and pretty pissed about it. I was told town-sided games are the current meta because towns supposedly suck.

ouch..

I really tried to lurk and not obv town this game because I was a PR but I kinda failed. Luckily Slaxx ate the night kill. GG thanks for the fun game guys

if slaxx wasnt here you would have eaten the NK for sure! haha couldnt help playing townie eh?
@slaxx, i havent played a game with you where you didnt eat the first NK hahaha..

gg all, fun game!!

@mew thanks for modding and being timely!! we all appreciate it..