Mini Normal 2054: Winter's Sacrifice [Game Over]
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rosterfoster Mafia Scum
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I had like 1 minute in the morning before I had to go (I was late anyway of course) so thought I should at least make a vote, but had no time to write anything else.In post 32, JunkoChan wrote:my bad, I think I skipped those, still don't like votes without a reason, even minimal
I actually don't like this. And I mean his RVS vote is just as lacking in context, no?In post 16, BuJaber wrote:I feel like a spectator already-
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I had this feeling that it was similar to something someone said in my previous game, when they were scum. And to me it felt like this was scum trying to active lurk.
Except I just checked and I wrongly scumread that slot (they were actually town, deep) and we almost lynched them. So I think maybe I have a bias towards that kind of post.-
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I mean it's not that hard. I have only played one game.In post 47, Dannflor wrote:It's too elaborate to fake
I'm not liking this hardcore defence of me. Feels a bit like trying way too hard to find townieness from what I said. As if heknowsI'm town.
VOTE: Dannflor-
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I mean there isn’t any? This naked vote thing kind of took over the game.In post 65, Flubbernugget wrote:What about the rest of their play?-
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I’m sure I’m just having a brain malfunction, but what felt less contrived?In post 77, Flubbernugget wrote:Yeah, that's what I was getting at. It felt less contrived than the town read on you
I think Bujaber is town.
I do find it very funny how much you’re all reading into this naked vote thing. Like if I had time I would’ve said something when voting. (directed at that post by Bujaber which I mentioned earlier).-
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Except it's not. You're trying to scumread me without scumread me. I just scumread you.In post 273, xwing wrote:yes, which is the same as what you did with me, so im not sure where you're going with this?
will wait for your catch up then, got high expectations..no pressure :p
Now, my only experience with Xwing is in my only game (viewtopic.php?f=11&t=78151). While Xwing was not the most active player (a lot of stuff happened on weekends), I got a consistently townie feel. There was a lot of posting from what others have said and ..'s etc which is happening here, but there was an assuredness about him, and a transparentness about the thought process. Then when people started calling him out on the lack of thought, there was a conscious shift to try to change perceptions. I'm talking 200 where he just randomly calls a bunch of people town. And then there's the pretty bizzare read on me, where he goes from seemingly null in 227 to suddenly including me in his list of three scum, and not giving any reason whatsover for what feels like an evolution in his reads (and Xwing said explicitly at the beginning that he likes evolving his reads openly or something.
Tomorrow I will have a proper catch-up. The only posts I seem to be able to understand at the moment are X-wing's (hence why this is focused on him), which is slightly concerning giving that English should be my first language.-
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Ok. I do feel as if I've been somewhat of a spectator, so I'm just going to do this from the start.
Spoiler: Tchill13
Spoiler: xwing
Spoiler: Dannflor
Spoiler: JunkoChan
Spoiler: Gamma Emerald
Spoiler: Sashaddin
Spoiler: BuJaber
Spoiler: Slaxx
Spoiler: Persivul
Spoiler: Egix96
Spoiler: Flubbernugget
Spoiler: Haschel Cedricson
I'd love to vote Bujaber, but that isn't going anywhere. Still think Xwing is pretty scummy, but ditto. Tchill is scummy, so is sashadinn. At least Tchill has a wagon.
Town: Haschel, Dann, Persivul, Slaxx
Null: Egix, Flubber, Junko, Gamma,
Scum: Tchill, Xwing, Sashaddin, Bujaber
(Yes I am aware there is almost certainly not 4 scum. Shoot me).
VOTE: Tchill-
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Oh I did not notice the vote from 328. If you want to join a Bujaber wagon I'm all ears.
VOTE: Bujaber
I played a couple of games ages ago on a different site (it used this wiki for roles and stuff), But really my proper experience is my only game here.
Most-Least Scummiest:
Bujaber,
Xwing,
Tchill/Sashadinn (they feel the same to me)-
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Tchill, it isn’t really a read list that we/I want, it’s more ‘what do you think about what happened?’
Actually hammering now wouldn’t have been that bad (although I don’t like that Junko did it). So long as you declare L-1 I don’t see any reason to avoid it. And the main problem with that is that you seem to be treading very carefully about where you put your vote.-
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There wasn’t an order. I should probably have layed that out better it I think it’s pretty clear my first preference is Bujaber, no? I still don’t understand why you feel I was ‘180’-ing. Dan indicated some willingness to lynch Bujaber so I moved to see if that would happen. I suggest you read the thread again if you think I’m lying about that.-
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Well I misunderstood that a little then.
I thought there was more chance of Bujaber happening than there is.
You seem to be assuming that I had my next post planned when I voted Tchill. I really didn’t.
Anyway, I’m kind of back to the same point as before.
VOTE: Tchill
That’s L-1
Now please do give us some more of your thoughts about the game.-
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That surprises me.In post 433, BuJaber wrote:
And I have never seen in my life a townie that builds up a huge case on their top scumread only to vote someone else before. So I don't understand your townread on rooster at all. It shows lack of conviction in his own case.
VOTE: rooster
You're not the only one whose name is spelt wrong constantly.
ConfusionIn post 468, JunkoChan wrote:@Egix you know what a scum slip is? I can see that post meant for a faction chat and not this thread, rookie mistake but a possibility
Also, I feel somewhat better towards Xwing today.
Other scum may well be Sash, but also 430 from Junko makes me feel bad. It would be so odd for scum to say something like that though, so IDK. Just why would a townie vote for someone they think's town? When they have actual scum reads.-
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You have returned to Xwing from our last game. I'm still not overly happy (though this now comes completely from my gut to your start), but people play better/worse all the time, so I'm no longer convinced by the meta reasons.In post 475, xwing wrote:why have you changed your mind on me, after i called you out on it? it only makes my paranoia of you stronger..-
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You are missing someone from the start of that wagon...In post 477, xwing wrote:@pedit: sash, i meant the ones who started the wagon on buj (e.g. percy and dann) are very townie, and i feel there's no scum agenda, so it's a good wagon to join fmpov..
But you scumread them, so that wouldn't work.-
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Well yeah I mean you have been recently. That's kind of what I said.In post 484, xwing wrote:
how exactly? besides the meh entrance, i think i've played as i've always done..can you articulate it more please?
Sorry I was trying to be mildly sarcastic. To be clear: I 'spearheaded' the Bujaber wagon, no?i dont scum read them? in fact, i've stated they're my strongest town reads..i dont understand what you're getting at..
also, i've stated that buj flipping red will most likely make you flip green, havent i?
though i should also add that buj flipping green wont look too good on you too..
so far i believe you can town up better than this, but as you said and i agree, different plays for different games..and im not really fond of using meta..
my beef with you mostly was how long it took you to change your stance on me..i felt like it was a hill you were willing to die on, similar feel to tchill's stance..and we know how tchill flipped..-
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Primarily Sash (and I mean hopefully that's the scum team), and Junko rang a few bells, but nothing more. Nothing really changed since 470. I suppose Flubber and you maybe go on the same level as Junko, but I think I would need another flip to compare associations before I can have any certainty.-
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You have never told me why you feel this way. I'd be interested.In post 527, xwing wrote:i just feel really icky on roster slot..-
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I mean if this was the reason then OK, but it seems pretty shallow.In post 484, xwing wrote:my beef with you mostly was how long it took you to change your stance on me..i felt like it was a hill you were willing to die on, similar feel to tchill's stance..and we know how tchill flipped..-
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In that game yes you townread me (and so did a lot of people) but Flavour (who ended up solving the game very nicely) was scum reading me d1. So I'm not sure I'm so good at 'towning it up' as you think I am. Also that game just kind of became obvious really quickly. So I'm not sure I obvtown very much.In post 535, xwing wrote:297
298]
til now i still feel you haven't towned it up..
also, reasons dont have to be deep for them to be valid..i mean we even give credit to gut feels..
as reference, the first time i suspected tchill was based on his naked vote, which is as shallow as shallow can be..his follow up actions only made him as scummier though so that made it easier for us..
Also, if your interested in meta, I did play another town game after that (it was lovers, so ugh) - viewtopic.php?f=51&t=78360. I felt pretty rubbish for that whole game, but was town.
And of course reasons don't have to be so deep, but they should probably get deeper over time, no? My read on you didn't really get any worse which is why you've gone back to null for me.-
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I have? Or did you just miss the point where I voted for you without support?In post 575, BuJaber wrote:Respect is a two way street. Look in the mirror. Talk to yourself. Would you respect that person?
Roster can you post an opinion one time without waiting for support?
Btw, I have complete respect for you. Don’t take me saying that something you did is scummy in the wrong way. We are just playing a game.-
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In post 581, BuJaber wrote:Let me put it this way. You repeatedly post sentences like "BuJaber is scummy but there's not much support there" "oh you voted bujaber okay I can vote him now" "yay, I'm not crazy"
The first two - we were near the deadline, and yes, I had to compromise. That was a good thing as it turned out, but I'm fairly sure we would have gotten a scum with you too. The third one - wouldn't you have doubts about your read if everybody else seemed to think differently? And then when they come out with the same/similar reasoning to you feel a little relieved?
I prodge, but say I'm still for you. I could easily have left that part out, which would be doing as you describe (you omitted this fact). I'm not asking if 433 is scummy, I'mBuJaber wrote:Even just on the previous page, you say you'll post a constructive post later, then as soon as persivul rallies people to vote me you post asking if 433 is scummy.sayingit is. Big difference.
I need support for a vote/wagon. I do not need support to point out what I believe to be scummy.BuJaber wrote: There is a pattern of seeking motivation from others to push in a certain direction that you claim you are strongly in favor of. But if it were something you strongly believed in you would not need this support.
I think I have just shown that my behaviour has been fundamentally different to what you have described. My 'style' (as it exists anyway) is more about cooperation than confrontation, but this has not meant that I do not/have not stated my opinions. I really have.-
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It's not real VCA. You remember FL catching Komodo in our previous game? That was analysing the reasons behind making the votes, what scum might do etc.In post 583, xwing wrote:how so?
In Bujaber's post the first few lines are all fluff. Just saying what happened rather than why.
Spoiler: fluff
They are attempting to look like VCA without being VCA.
Essentially: 'Scum are always later on the wagon'Junko / rooster / egix are the scummiest votes.
Fair enough, but this is the only reasoning in a whole post which is supposed to be entirely about reasoning. Now if he had just made a post mentioning this point I would've quite liked that, as it shows honesty about what you can determine. But instead there was this whole 'reasoning' which wasn't really reasoning to try to give as much weight as possible behind the push on me. Except the 'VCA' is really just based on this one rule of thumb, and the fact that he townreads the other two possibilities.-
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I don't know that much about balance, but there feels to be way too much town power in this game for that scum team, from what you have both said.
I am not one of the above. I'm debating whether to full claim. There is more information in that.
Pedit: I mean it's probably an informed modifier on another role.-
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Yes we’ll that’s what’s giving me pause. I believe all the claims made (but not necessarily alignment), and we shouldn’t discount that one of the informed roles is scum.
@Persivul, fullclaim please. Obviously if you have actions which could catch out scum don’t say then.
Pedit: Ok, that makes a bit more sense balance wise.-
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Is just patently false.In post 690, Flubbernugget wrote:How are you saying there are only 3 prs?-
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Well clearly I misunderstood what you were saying then. I don't see how you could be trying as town and say that post, because it made perfect sense for 3 town PR's from what dann said.
I'm not sure whether babysitters add town power or not. It's a difficult question actually. Probably doesn't change the EV, (though disloyal would improve for town), and odd night is pretty weak.-
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