Mini Normal 2073: ~ramblings~ (game over)

[James Brafin]

Hey everyone, I’m James Brafin. This is my first game in a while so bear with. I’m trying some new strats so we’ll see how it goes.
Some things to know:
I policy vote/lynch toxicity. Period. I don’t want it in my game. It’s no fun for anyone.
I don’t like RVS. I’ve heard it said that it builds information, but how can you build information on no foundation? So I’m abstaining my vote. When I put it up you can assume your RVS is over.
I’m also doing a touch of research to improve my preliminary reads, so if I ask a weird question just play along.

Speaking of weird questions, I’d appreciate it if everyone would answer this:
What is your favorite thing to eat and why?
Thanks,
JB

[James Brafin]

Hi all!
Based on Chill being town for so many of the games I've seen from him recently, gamblers fallacy tells me he has to be scum now.
And since gamblers fallacy is apparently a bad thing to use, it probably means he is town here.
VOTE: Dr. Easy Wagon

Also, didn't I hear something about a study done on here that says the first post in any game is most likely made by scum? Like a 60% chance or something?

Right off the bat these two posts feel tonaly off and forced.
Hitalt, you’re still committing the fallacy by assuming Chill is an alignment. Gambler’s Fallacy states that a player’s alignment is independent of any previous alignment. Every game is a new game and you should never make assumptions about alignment based on previous roles UNLESS you notice consistent tells from a player (For example, Inferno390 regularly 1v1s and hard tunnels as town).
Dr. EB (Can I call you Dr. EB?), you’re committing the same fallacy, but in a much shadier fashion. In addition, you’re suffering from meta warp, I.e. whenever a meta is analyzed, players (especially scum) respond by altering their play style to be different than what the meta dictates, therefore making that information useless. As a rule I don’t trust those kinds of things if they’re made public.

Also, I will answer my own question:
My favorite thing to eat is berries and/or leafy greens such as spinach, kale, or Brussels sprouts. The berries for the sweet and tart, the greens for the bitter (I love bitter and aromatic foods. Brussels and garlic baked are fantastic ).

[James Brafin]

I enjoy eating cupcakes and taking part in the dismemberment of ducks. Oh yeah! Raw meat!

VOTE: James Brafin

I’m personally offended. What did ducks ever do to you? Cupcakes are tasty though, so long as you keep the frosting to cupcake ratio decent.
Also, just checking, but this an RVS vote, right?

[James Brafin]

That would be the reason for my research. I’m trying to figure out if there’s an alternative to RVS. Hence the odd question. It would be great if you would answer it by the way.

[James Brafin]

Hi again to most of you, and nice to meet you LUV, Macabre, and James.

I think that we can't avoid RVS this game and will have to grit our teeth and power through a few pages of nonsense.

VOTE: JPG because I have a ton of .gifs and .pngs

To be clear, are you saying that my questions or RVS is nonsense?

[James Brafin]

To be clear, are you saying that my questions or RVS is nonsense?

Mainly RVS, but to some extent a bit of both- either way, the first few pages are going to be reserved for players to get their jokes/memes/shit out of their system before actually "playing" to the game, and that will hold regardless of whether we do RVS/RQS.

Your "which food" question is on the fluffy side of things.
A question like "do you prefer being mafia" or something along those lines I can totally 100% get behind.... but "food preferences"?
It sounds like you're on a first date and you have to ask the most generic/default questions at hand to keep the conversation going (at all costs )

I’m aware it’s a tad fluffy. Just bear with, I will explain (privately) post-game, but for the sake of the experiment I’d like to keep my motives hidden for now to prevent skewed results.

[James Brafin]

@Baezu

I’d appreciate it if everyone would answer this:
What is your favorite thing to eat and why?

Please.

[James Brafin]

I’m aware it’s a tad fluffy. Just bear with, I will explain (privately) post-game, but for the sake of the experiment I’d like to keep my motives hidden for now to prevent skewed results.

I might misunderstand you here, but what is the point of this RQS then, if you are going to explain about your motivations about this only later post-game?

Reading and came across this.
So it’s not a random question for all curious. This question has a specific reason for being asked, albeit not very obvious.
Just know that I am using it to form reads. In a fashion.

[James Brafin]

Quack
VOTE: The Duck

Also, didn't I hear something about a study done on here that says the first post in any game is most likely made by scum? Like a 60% chance or something?

Hey everyone, I’m James Brafin. This is my first game in a while so bear with. I’m trying some new strats so we’ll see how it goes.
Some things to know:
I policy vote/lynch toxicity. Period. I don’t want it in my game. It’s no fun for anyone.
I don’t like RVS. I’ve heard it said that it builds information, but how can you build information on no foundation? So I’m abstaining my vote. When I put it up you can assume your RVS is over.
I’m also doing a touch of research to improve my preliminary reads, so if I ask a weird question just play along.

Speaking of weird questions, I’d appreciate it if everyone would answer this:
What is your favorite thing to eat and why?
Thanks,
JB

I kind of want to test the theory...

VOTE: James Brafin

I can only assume these are for pressure/RVS. No worries.

[James Brafin]

Also, didn't I hear something about a study done on here that says the first post in any game is most likely made by scum? Like a 60% chance or something?

Hey everyone, I’m James Brafin. This is my first game in a while so bear with. I’m trying some new strats so we’ll see how it goes.
Some things to know:
I policy vote/lynch toxicity. Period. I don’t want it in my game. It’s no fun for anyone.
I don’t like RVS. I’ve heard it said that it builds information, but how can you build information on no foundation? So I’m abstaining my vote. When I put it up you can assume your RVS is over.
I’m also doing a touch of research to improve my preliminary reads, so if I ask a weird question just play along.

Speaking of weird questions, I’d appreciate it if everyone would answer this:
What is your favorite thing to eat and why?
Thanks,
JB

I kind of want to test the theory...

VOTE: James Brafin

I would bet that that post was planned out before he got his role PM.

Someone give this man a medal! It was. I have a plan for this game and I’m going to stick to it.

[James Brafin]

so at the moment I don’t have access to my spreadsheet, but as soon as I do I will post who has yet to answer the first question. In the meantime there’s enough here for me to start taking notes. Brb.

Also as a note, I meant toxic like RC, who kinda shoves himself down everyone’s throats and does shit anti-town gambits. I don’t mind if you’re not super-serious.

[James Brafin]

I think it’s fair that we don’t acknowledge the meta part of your case.

Fair, but I think I can call people out on doing 180s compared to a previous game that they've had with me.

NewbScum greeting tell

Let me guess- this is thrown my way as well?
Hi to you to

morality

FL.

I wanted to shade Something_Smart.

You worried I was coming after you again? Last time you blew a gasket.

This concerns me
Town-reading Vork and Skellen right now. I don’t think their level of analysis on me comes from scum

[James Brafin]

to my spreadsheet

Can this level of over-preparedness be scum?
Can this be a really really huge elaborate show/theater for the public..?

Eh... idk I just want to see Act 2.

Didn't we just establish that he planned this before he got his role PM?

Yes. This is very NAI.

[James Brafin]

Sorry, been super busy and needing to do a massive catchup. The farthest I’ve read is HitAlt’s answer to my question. Will do so this afternoon when I’m less busy.

[James Brafin]

Not gonna lie, this game is tough to read with all of the fluff. I’m trying to catch up from my phone but it’s not easy.
Also, I don’t believe Flavor has answer the question I posed on post 10, though I’m only on page 7. It would be great if you would answer.

[James Brafin]

Also noticed from a preliminary skim that others are asking questions as well. Thanks to all for the help. Gonna document them all.

[James Brafin]

I just finished page ten. Here’s the skinny of it:
Massive 1v1 between Vork and Flavor.
Now, I’ve been reading this and my first conclusion is that there’s no way this is T/T. It’s a derail for sure by at least one party, and neither side is making a ton of sense. FL is using appeal to Seniority, while Vork is using Appeal to Emotion. I know town!Vork is not like this at all from my known meta on him, and Flavor Leaf is. So I’m now starting to lean into Vork!scum a bit, trying to paint town!Flavor as whiteknighting or protecting a scumpartner.

Dr. EB is either fluffy scum or unhelpful town. He’s too funny and unreadable rn to lynch though. If he’s not started serious posting by page 25 I might consider revisiting him.

[James Brafin]

Skellen is as far as I’m aware rn town. I’m on page ten though so that may change.
I know the question wasn’t directed at me but for posterity.

[James Brafin]

So this is gonna sound far-fetched (Page 15 btw)
But could Dr. Easy Bake be scum as well? It feels to me that Bork was trying to soft-bus and distance, and when he started to get issues for it he had to defend himself. Because his initial reason for voting makes NO sense IMO.
JP, I read your last game and think I can tell alignment from the first post alone. I will have to double check though.

[James Brafin]

Skellen, in a game I played recently someone made a really good point about lynching scum D1 so I’ll try to paraphrase but I’m sure I’ll get wrong anyway - it doesn’t give much information...

Since scum know who’s town they start out with more information so associations are harder to draw...scum lynch in D1 can actually make it harder for town to win

Well, Vork basically said what I think of it. Never had seen a red flip on D1 so far, but I would think also that gives enough information. I would assume that a D1 scum lynch would suggest bussing i.e. What is your approach then? Informative lynches? Or is your stance on not lynching a potential scummy person like scum!FL just applying solely for FL?

While I am at it, what is your take on the whole Vork-FL thing and what do you think might have been DEB's role in all of that?

What do you hope from gaining with pushing an inactive player who at worst is just going to get replaced? (to be clear, I have nothing against pushing lurkers, it just looks odd to me that people push the one person who hasn't even posted once instead of actual lurkers who have posted like flippy, tchill or HitAlt).

To answer your first question, D1 for me is usually just info gathering, the lynch is mostly just protocol. The meat of the game starts D2. My FL comment applies specifically to FL. He is the type of player that is so valuable to town if he’s town that there really is no reason to lynch him D1 on the off chance that he’s just acting scummy. There are always at least 2 scum so I usually focus D1 on determining the other scum. I, unlike Vork, believe that he is lynchable and in fact it’s usually pretty easy to convince town to lynch him since his play style can be annoying to so many.

I know this might give him godlike immunity, which is what I think Vork’s complaint is. It’s not fair, but for experienced players like FL there’s really no other choice.

I think Vork/FL was TvT. Not sure about DEB yet- whether he was trying to hide in the commotion or actually just playing along but I think we can figure out DEB later.

As far as pushing inactives, there is a thing called “Beetlejuice” that says that if you vote someone three times they will magically appear so it’s not really a push, it’s a request for more engagement

This right here bothers me.
What makes you think it was T/T? And what do you mean “whether he was trying to hide in the commotion?” What would give you that idea?

[James Brafin]

I predict four mafia and a stomp.

Hold up
These games are balanced at 10/3
To be Frank for a second: How the hell do you have this information?

[James Brafin]

Nah fam Feraligatr is bad fucking ass

To be honest, if they’d balance all the gens to each other the entire line would be one of the strongest lines period. It’s up there with being able to tank some legendary electric types rn.
Totally off topic, but I just thought I’d put my two cents in.

@Inferno390 would be so happy.

[James Brafin]

so at the moment I don’t have access to my spreadsheet, but as soon as I do I will post who has yet to answer the first question. In the meantime there’s enough here for me to start taking notes. Brb.

Also as a note, I meant toxic like RC, who kinda shoves himself down everyone’s throats and does shit anti-town gambits. I don’t mind if you’re not super-serious.

Ah damn, you were gambiting, and I fell for it.

Is it scummy if I answer now?

UNVOTE: James

That was my RVS equivalent vote, even though I was kind of half serious because of the tell.

Noted. Was not a gambit actually, but your response was very informative. Thanks for your time.

[James Brafin]

So someone correct me if I’m wrong, but Mr. Macabre puts scum between {Dr. EB, Baezu} and thinks Flavor might be gambiting Skellen?
Gotta day, his obfuscation is just strong enough to make him tough to read, while still being readable. I like him - he makes me think.

[James Brafin]

I just finished page ten. Here’s the skinny of it:
Massive 1v1 between Vork and Flavor.
Now, I’ve been reading this and my first conclusion is that there’s no way this is T/T. It’s a derail for sure by at least one party, and neither side is making a ton of sense. FL is using appeal to Seniority, while Vork is using Appeal to Emotion. I know town!Vork is not like this at all from my known meta on him, and Flavor Leaf is. So I’m now starting to lean into Vork!scum a bit, trying to paint town!Flavor as whiteknighting or protecting a scumpartner.

Dr. EB is either fluffy scum or unhelpful town. He’s too funny and unreadable rn to lynch though. If he’s not started serious posting by page 25 I might consider revisiting him.

ScumHit, what do you think of Skellen?

One of the more sound posters I've seen in a while?

Why is this a question?

[James Brafin]

Not necessarily. That’s also how scum PRhunts. Optimal play as a town PR is to remain just Townie enough to not get lynched while just scummy enough to dodge the night kill.
Baezu, this is highly suspect, and not at all what I think Dr. EB is saying. I don’t like the apparent misrep here. Care to explain yourself?

[James Brafin]

I think we can safely say at this point in time there is one scum in {FL, Vork} and one in {Baezu, Creature, Dr. EB}
Leaning scum!vork because posturing and little help for gameplay.
Dr is pretty much just fluff posting.
Baezu seems to be half-buddy, half shading.
Creature just feels like he has WAY too much setup knowledge.
JPG, FL, Macabre, talk to me. Help me to sort these guys please.

[James Brafin]

Okay, after a quick meta dive I think it’s pretty safe to say that JPG is scum. Compared to his previous game, there are some drastic differences:
As town, he’s very inquisitive and preferred making detailed posts. In this games, he sticks to shorter posts, provides less content, and is more vague on details.
In the previous game as town, he was more aggressive and did less shading. In this game he’s content to let others take the wheel and shade a bit more. He’s sort of active lurking to a degree.
In the previous game, he relied more on quoting early game to build a case and ask questions, while here he does less of it and only to provide opinions.
I think that’s enough for me to comfortably say
VOTE: JPG
This is L-2. I’d appreciate if there was no hammer here for a bit though, I want to dive Vork, Creature, Baezu, and the Doctor before anyone claims intent. Please and thanks.

[James Brafin]

Also, will be V/LA tomorrow and Monday, just so y’all know.

[James Brafin]

If you hammer this guy before Sunday, you do realize you are basically confirmed scum right?

[James Brafin]

Thank you Vork.
JPG, then talk to me. I want to interact you as town or scum to gain information.
Tell me about your town reads. Who are they and why?

[James Brafin]

Okay, after a quick meta dive I think it’s pretty safe to say that JPG is scum. Compared to his previous game, there are some drastic differences:
As town, he’s very inquisitive and preferred making detailed posts. In this games, he sticks to shorter posts, provides less content, and is more vague on details.
In the previous game as town, he was more aggressive and did less shading. In this game he’s content to let others take the wheel and shade a bit more. He’s sort of active lurking to a degree.
In the previous game, he relied more on quoting early game to build a case and ask questions, while here he does less of it and only to provide opinions.
I think that’s enough for me to comfortably say
VOTE: JPG
This is L-2. I’d appreciate if there was no hammer here for a bit though, I want to dive Vork, Creature, Baezu, and the Doctor before anyone claims intent. Please and thanks.

I must know: why is this a shoddy case? Are you telling me my meta dive is bad?
This is really a shoddy case Brafin

[James Brafin]

Crap. See inside the post. Why is this a shoddy case?

[James Brafin]

VOTE: S_S
This is scum defending his scum partner.

-Most people on the JPG wagon were there for "hurry up and post" reasons, not because they GENUINELY thought that the slot was town.
-S_S panics seeing the gradual transition form "inactivity wagon" to "scum wagon" and intervenes
-

He's assuming that this is a 100% town wagon with no scum on it based simply on how "smooth" it's going.

What the literal fuck?
Wagons on town go smoothly because scum is on them. Scum wagons are always going to have resistance day 1 because they don’t want their buddy lynched. That’s why a wagon that forms quickly day 1 is likely directed at town and why it provides so much info. There is no such thing as a “smooth town wagon with no scum.” Scum will actively push a town wagon in most cases because the mislynch helps them.
This is super sus. Also, you have got to mean “thought the slot was SCUM,” not town, right?

[James Brafin]

Wait, Vork.
You were on the wagon.
You didn’t believe it was scum
Now you do?

[James Brafin]

Wait, Vork.
You were on the wagon.
You didn’t believe it was scum
Now you do?

To make it clearer:
You are implying that you voted JPG to get reaction, not because you thought he was scum.
Now you’re saying that S_S is protecting his scumbuddy JPG
Who you don’t think is scum.
So S_S is defending his scumbuddy who is not scum?
Your logic is about 0% sense.

[James Brafin]

Nope nope nope.
You are now scumreading JPG based on the fact that S_S is scum that’s chainsawing.
But that’s bad logic.
The only way S_S is scum is if JPG is scum according to you. It can’t be both. You’re building a narrative that can’t possibly exist
Ladies and gents, I found scum. Thank me later.
VOTE: Vork the Fork(-thrower)
P-edit:
To make it clear, the fallacy is:
If JPG is scum, S_S is defending his scumbuddy.
JPG is scum because S_S is defending him.
Therefore, scum. Die, Scum!

However, this does not clear JPG, even though it clears S_S. Will explain in a minute.

[James Brafin]

I’ve got it.
I was thinking this could be scum!vork getting town!S_S lynched to confirm scum!JPG.
And then I was thinking from above scum!Baezu is possible from his sheeping, lack of content, and interaction with Vork.
But then there’s this:

Okay, after a quick meta dive I think it’s pretty safe to say that JPG is scum. Compared to his previous game, there are some drastic differences:
As town, he’s very inquisitive and preferred making detailed posts. In this games, he sticks to shorter posts, provides less content, and is more vague on details.
In the previous game as town, he was more aggressive and did less shading. In this game he’s content to let others take the wheel and shade a bit more. He’s sort of active lurking to a degree.
In the previous game, he relied more on quoting early game to build a case and ask questions, while here he does less of it and only to provide opinions.
I think that’s enough for me to comfortably say
VOTE: JPG
This is L-2. I’d appreciate if there was no hammer here for a bit though, I want to dive Vork, Creature, Baezu, and the Doctor before anyone claims intent. Please and thanks.

This is really a shoddy case Brafin

Which is a soft defense of JPG, with no explanation for why.
Could scum be JPG, Vork, Baezu?
S_S, Skellen, Flavor, please please help. I need someone to talk to out loud so I can sort better.

[James Brafin]

I was thinking this could be scum!vork getting town!S_S lynched to confirm scum!JPG.

"confirm....?"

Can you spoonfeed me that a bit more?

Yes.
The idea is:
Vork: S_S and JPG have to be scum together! Let’s lynch S_S because I don’t lynch lurkers.
Dumb town: Yep OK.
(S_S flips town because your logic makes no sense and you know that S_S is town)
Vork: Whoop, I guess that means that JPG can’t possibly be scum.
JPG is lock-town for the rest of the game and endgames.

[James Brafin]

James is town

Thanks.
I appreciate your vote of confidence.
*extreme sarcasm*

[James Brafin]

Creature:

I mean I guess I get that, but is actively hurting town in my opinion during those three days, for instance. Like, you can be a part of the game and not make yourself a target for an NK. We’ve already talk about this, so I think we’ll just have differing opinions again. There’s a lot more to this than winning for me, so I couldn’t fathom lurking for days.

I definitely agree with this, if you have a town PR I feel it’s your duty to engage the town and become as obvstown as possible

This is why we were discussing PRs

[James Brafin]

Vork: Whoop, I guess that means that JPG can’t possibly be scum.
JPG is lock-town

Ha. Ha. hAAAAH.

Counterpoint: This is an example of how vork thinks

-Investigative gets a confirmed guilty/innocent
-Vork still thinks that said investigative might be scum, while others are lock-towning said investigative.

There's no way I would buy "oh a 1-v-1 resulted in a town flip, thus the other guy is also town!".
If I wouldn't buy, it then... why.... would I... make that argument?

Ha. Ha Ha Ha.
No. Nice try. There’s no 1v1 here. See, the only reason you’re scumreading JPG is because you’re scumreading S_S. You yourself admit that you didn’t scumread him before that. So if the only reason JPG is scum is because S_S is scum, then in the case of town!S_S, town!JPG, right? Right?
Wrong. Because A) your scumread of S_S is shit and B) You got to S_S’s alignment by JPG’s alignment, not the other way around. Except you’re portraying it as the exact opposite. You claimed that you voted JPG, and then S_S defended, and so now JPG is scum because S_S is scum, when that narrative makes no sense.

And also you “buy” because you’re scum.

[James Brafin]

ninja'd & phoneposting is hard

So S_S is defending his scumbuddy who is not scum?
Your logic is about 0% sense.

-JPG is lurking/inactive scum (

but I didn't think that at the time

), so I voted to push activity. I would've done the same to tchill/flippy.
-JPG responds and I'm like "hmmm what was he like last game"
-S_S defends.
-Page 23

Your own admission that you didn’t believe that JPG was scum until after the S_S defense.
Your move.

[James Brafin]

In response to your 2:
Wrong. My logic assumes that you are assuming S_S and JPG are buddies, and clearing one clears the other. So by getting S_S lynched, it then implicitly clears JPG.
Which is not true. Following your logic, S_S’s alignment is dependent on JPG’s, but the opposite is not true, that is, JPG’s alignment is not dependent on S_S’s.

[James Brafin]

Really?

I voted for him when he had 0 posts in total (#226)
Then he said stuff and and it was murkier.

Like come on.
You're trying to score a really cheap shot here.

DUDE
I can see your logic.
It was literally
S_S is defending JPG.
S_S is scum
Therefore, JPG is scum. DIE, SCUM!

Which is such bad logic in of itself. I mean, have you ever heard of white knighting?

[James Brafin]

VOTE: S_S
This is scum defending his scum partner.

-Most people on the JPG wagon were there for "hurry up and post" reasons, not because they GENUINELY thought that the slot was town.
-S_S panics seeing the gradual transition form "inactivity wagon" to "scum wagon" and intervenes
-He's assuming that this is a 100% town wagon with no scum on it based simply on how "smooth" it's going.

[James Brafin]

Pardon, meant to post this:

UNVOTE: JPG
Yes, I'm "THAT GUY" again.

We don't even have a replacement from flippy's slot yet

VOTE: S_S
This is scum defending his scum partner.

-Most people on the JPG wagon were there for "hurry up and post" reasons, not because they GENUINELY thought that the slot was town.
-S_S panics seeing the gradual transition form "inactivity wagon" to "scum wagon" and intervenes
-He's assuming that this is a 100% town wagon with no scum on it based simply on how "smooth" it's going.

[James Brafin]

You’re telling me that your logic was:
JPG is scum, but let’s lessen his pressure because replacements.
Then, S_S points out an issue in the wagon, so he’s scum with the scum I just unvoted because he had too much pressure?

Dude, that makes no sense.

[James Brafin]

Whoa nope.
Scum JPG is a possibility. His scum alignment is independent of you being scum, which you ARE.
Great misrep tho.

[James Brafin]

But you can’t make points with them.

[James Brafin]

Because town!nobody unvotes a player and then scum reads another based on the fact that the unvoted player is scum, then says “the unvoted player I decided was scum because the guy I’m voting is scum.” That’s not just dumb - it just plain doesn’t make any sense. That’s backtracking and false narrative, and pretty blatant too.

[James Brafin]

At this point, the flailing is obvious, and it WOULD BE GREAT IF THE ENTIRE TOWN WOULD STOP IGNORING ME AND LURKING AND GIVE ME A HAND SO I DON’T HAVE TO FREAKING GAMESOLVE BY MYSELF.

I mean, hell guys, aren’t you the ones who were complaining about lurkers? Put some freaking work in and interact with me if you don’t agree, or at least vote if you do.

And creature, your behavior is highly sus. Read this please, and start interacting. Stop active lurking. I’m starting to wonder if you might be on an alternative scum team, something like Vork/Creature/???

[James Brafin]

What is that supposed to mean, Dr. Easy Bake?

[James Brafin]

FL, who are we voting for?

There was a largeish 1v1 that actually provides a decent bit of information and you’re just going to ignore it?

[James Brafin]

Okay, after a quick meta dive I think it’s pretty safe to say that JPG is scum. Compared to his previous game, there are some drastic differences:
As town, he’s very inquisitive and preferred making detailed posts. In this games, he sticks to shorter posts, provides less content, and is more vague on details.
In the previous game as town, he was more aggressive and did less shading. In this game he’s content to let others take the wheel and shade a bit more. He’s sort of active lurking to a degree.
In the previous game, he relied more on quoting early game to build a case and ask questions, while here he does less of it and only to provide opinions.
I think that’s enough for me to comfortably say
VOTE: JPG
This is L-2. I’d appreciate if there was no hammer here for a bit though, I want to dive Vork, Creature, Baezu, and the Doctor before anyone claims intent. Please and thanks.

What you’re using is experience. Where are the quotes from the games of his that you’re analyzing? There is a disturbing lack of context here.

Would like to say I’ve been phone posting and quotes are horrendous. However, for those interested, the game I’m reading from is Mini Normal 2070.

[James Brafin]

So after a quick catchup, here’s where I stand:

For sure town: Skellen, Macabre. Both are very natural, thoughtful posters and are putting a reasonable amount of effort into the game considering the high amount of fluff.
Likely town: Flavor Leaf. He’s also putting in a lot of effort, and despite his scumread of me I don’t think Fl/Vork is S/S.
Maybe Town: S_S. While I hate that like Baezu, he’s yet to explain why my case on JPG is bad, he’s also been pretty gamesolvey. So he’s got a touch of a lean. (And before anyone bitches at me that a I missed it, I’m gonna do an ISO to check after this post, so cool your jets.)
Null: JPG (on one hand, he’s been a touch Townie. On the other, meta dives and chainsaws indicate he’s scum with vork.), LUV (Need to ISO, but I haven’t seen enough I feel like to start placing)
Maybe scum: Dr. EB (Please stop active lurking), Zil (Can I call you Zil?) I think is pushing super hard on weak logic. Needs to ISO tho. And Creature just generally pings me, but I’m not sure why yet. He needs an ISO as well.
Oh, and Hialt. For a second I thought he could be town, but then I thought he could be posturing pocketing scum. He honestly sounds like a game show host. That being said, I’m watching him to get a better read.
Likely scum: Baezu. He’s evading my questions and not actually gamesolving. He’s mostly just making one word sentences that don’t really help anyone. It’s like active lurking to an extreme, without the blatant wolfing that the Dr. is doing.
100% for sure scum: Vork, if you need reasons please see my entire case above.

Any questions?

[James Brafin]

Let’s see some fleshed out reads for a start. What do you think of Vork and Baezu? Scum? Town? And why?

[James Brafin]

Gonna have to take a rain check for at least today, if not until the weekend. Dog is super sick and I have to be here for the family. If anyone prays, please do.

[James Brafin]

And you're ON the Creature wagon meanwhile you're saying that the guy who started it looks bad...

Thank you for the support. I’m back but exhausted.
This is a fantastic point. This is super scummy behavior from Baezu imo

[James Brafin]

JPG is frozen af in a scummy way.

Nope not ignoring.
Why do you say this? What makes his current behavior scummy?

[James Brafin]

I’d be ok with this lynch. My only fear is that this behavior is super lynch-bait. But Creature, you’ve really got to find some motivation here buddy. Why are you scumreading me?

[James Brafin]

I can see where the Creature wagon is

coming from him parking his vote for almost the whole day on James

and the unmotivated play. The former reason confuses me a little bit though as me and I think Baezu(?) already mentioned far earlier (even although only incidentally) that is weird that he didn't use his vote despite scumreading Baezu (and S_S). The timing throws me a little bit of, not that it is wrong to point that out, but why only now?

Cause I’m confused about this. I haven’t been paying any attention to this, but it is odd. Wouldn’t your vote be better used somewhere else?

[James Brafin]

I also think that even if Creature is scum, he’s been so lurky we can gain no information from his lynch, which is a huge problem.

[James Brafin]

We’re both widely townread.

[James Brafin]

That hammer is looking so sweet right now people. I’m giving JPG a time limit. If he hasn’t responded to his current L-1 by 5pm Eastern Standard Time (its about noon now). I will, finish the job. Of course this doesn’t stop someone else from swooping in.
(expired on 2019-05-04 17:00:00)

Because of this. I was trying to leave pressure on for a bit longer, since I knew I could be on to unvote before he hammered. Vork just happened to get on first and unvote.

[James Brafin]

Boring~

VOTE: John Pierce Gantt

L-2

Okay, after a quick meta dive I think it’s pretty safe to say that JPG is scum. Compared to his previous game, there are some drastic differences:
As town, he’s very inquisitive and preferred making detailed posts. In this games, he sticks to shorter posts, provides less content, and is more vague on details.
In the previous game as town, he was more aggressive and did less shading. In this game he’s content to let others take the wheel and shade a bit more. He’s sort of active lurking to a degree.
In the previous game, he relied more on quoting early game to build a case and ask questions, while here he does less of it and only to provide opinions.
I think that’s enough for me to comfortably say
VOTE: JPG
This is L-2. I’d appreciate if there was no hammer here for a bit though, I want to dive Vork, Creature, Baezu, and the Doctor before anyone claims intent. Please and thanks.

That hammer is looking so sweet right now people. I’m giving JPG a time limit. If he hasn’t responded to his current L-1 by 5pm Eastern Standard Time (its about noon now). I will, finish the job. Of course this doesn’t stop someone else from swooping in.
(expired on 2019-05-04 17:00:00)

UNVOTE:
We should lynch one of these three people today. And we're never lynching Titus.

You’re either deeptunneling or scum buddy. Don’t know about creature, but Skellen is one of the most widely town read, and I have I believe four people townreading me. So why don’t you stop wasting your time and do something useful, like look at Vork, Flavor Leaf, or Creature, who are mostly being read as null/scum? Explain to me why none of these are on your scum list.

[James Brafin]

So this is gonna sound far-fetched (Page 15 btw)
But could Dr. Easy Bake be scum as well? It feels to me that Bork was trying to soft-bus and distance, and when he started to get issues for it he had to defend himself. Because his initial reason for voting makes NO sense IMO.
JP, I read your last game and think I can tell alignment from the first post alone. I will have to double check though.

I think we can safely say at this point in time there is one scum in {FL, Vork} and one in {Baezu, Creature, Dr. EB}
Leaning scum!vork because posturing and little help for gameplay.
Dr is pretty much just fluff posting.
Baezu seems to be half-buddy, half shading.
Creature just feels like he has WAY too much setup knowledge.
JPG, FL, Macabre, talk to me. Help me to sort these guys please.

Okay, after a quick meta dive I think it’s pretty safe to say that JPG is scum. Compared to his previous game, there are some drastic differences:
As town, he’s very inquisitive and preferred making detailed posts. In this games, he sticks to shorter posts, provides less content, and is more vague on details.
In the previous game as town, he was more aggressive and did less shading. In this game he’s content to let others take the wheel and shade a bit more. He’s sort of active lurking to a degree.
In the previous game, he relied more on quoting early game to build a case and ask questions, while here he does less of it and only to provide opinions.
I think that’s enough for me to comfortably say
VOTE: JPG
This is L-2. I’d appreciate if there was no hammer here for a bit though, I want to dive Vork, Creature, Baezu, and the Doctor before anyone claims intent. Please and thanks.

I also don't understand this progression. You say that you can tell John's alignment from just his first post. Then you make a readslist, where John is absent except a bit at the end that indicates that you have a townread in place on him, where you ask him to help you sort your suspects. And then sixteen posts later you're voting him? What's up with 530?

So A) it’s not one post, it’s multiple.
B) his posting style is radically different from his previous and only other game on the site, where he was town PR. I find that super suspicious, regardless of whether he’s new or not. While after Vork he’s less of a scum read, I am keeping an eye on him, or was until he got replaced. Now I got no meta to work off of and need to do another dive.

[James Brafin]

I had time, so I did a quick meta dive and found issues with his play in this game compared to the last one, which lead me to believe there was a Hugh chance of being scum. Previous to that he had posted so little I was unable to make a solid read. It was only after the dive his behavior made sense.
What part of “So I did a quick meta dive” are we not understanding here?

[James Brafin]

the part where in 472 you said this:

JP, I read your last game and think I can tell alignment from the first post alone.

which implies that you weren't unable to make a read.

So it’s wrong for me to refresh my memory before committing?
Oh, sorry. My bad.

[James Brafin]

No, you misunderstand.
I am not saying that I had a read.
I believe that players have posting style differences as scum or town.
JPG was recently in a game with my brother Inferno390.
In that game, he was a town PR. He also had a very distinctive post style.
So I saw I was playing with him, saw his first post, and said, “Huh. I have ready access to meta, and I know this guy has a distinctive posting style as town. I should compare this game with his previous game and see how similar his posting style is between the two.”
So I did. I went and refreshed my memory with the beginning of that game, and you know what I found?
I found that his posting style was radically different from when he was town. So he became my top scumread.
Also, I did not say “I have a read.” I said, “I think I am capable of forming a read.” There’s a huge difference.
So now that I’ve laid out my exact line of reasoning for you, are we quite done?

[James Brafin]

VOTE: vorkuta best wagon.

Boring~

VOTE: John Pierce Gantt

L-2

Okay, after a quick meta dive I think it’s pretty safe to say that JPG is scum. Compared to his previous game, there are some drastic differences:
As town, he’s very inquisitive and preferred making detailed posts. In this games, he sticks to shorter posts, provides less content, and is more vague on details.
In the previous game as town, he was more aggressive and did less shading. In this game he’s content to let others take the wheel and shade a bit more. He’s sort of active lurking to a degree.
In the previous game, he relied more on quoting early game to build a case and ask questions, while here he does less of it and only to provide opinions.
I think that’s enough for me to comfortably say
VOTE: JPG
This is L-2. I’d appreciate if there was no hammer here for a bit though, I want to dive Vork, Creature, Baezu, and the Doctor before anyone claims intent. Please and thanks.

That hammer is looking so sweet right now people. I’m giving JPG a time limit. If he hasn’t responded to his current L-1 by 5pm Eastern Standard Time (its about noon now). I will, finish the job. Of course this doesn’t stop someone else from swooping in.
(expired on 2019-05-04 17:00:00)

UNVOTE:
We should lynch one of these three people today. And we're never lynching Titus.

I'm fully caught up now. I skimmed a little but with a 2 day deadline that's kind of what you have to do.

I got the fairly strong impression from that, that what scum has mostly been doing this game is basically watching town get wagoned. John wagon was dominant, momentum died, then Creature wagon started. Individual people were voting each other but there never appeared to be a strong wagon effort, outside of those two. Besides they both kind of feel town to me. So until further notice I think Titus and Creature are town.

Something_smart feels genuine and has echoed my thoughts multiple times - about the John wagon and especially comparing it to Volxen in Musicals - and generally seems to be spewing sense. I think he's town here too.

I think it's very difficult, at least for me, to get a logical read on FL in the early game. I feel as if this is town!FL, though.

That leads to a worryingly wide scumpool of {Zulfy, LUV, Baezu, James, Skellen, Vorkuta, Easybake, Hitalt} where I have to narrow down who the scum could be and pick the best vote for today.

I keep wanting to delay this and just wait until some future point where I can get better reads but then I see the deadline and remember that I can't actually do that.

VOTE: Dr Easy Bake

I don't like the intent to hammer on JPG - like at all. I don't like the way he jumped on the John and Creature wagons. I don't like the way he made such a big deal about rolling VT in a normal game and decided, not only to share his role with the game, but to keep saying stuff like 75 (I'm a VT so I'll just post for my entertainment) and 103 (I despise being VT) and bringing it up. I don't like the way he responds to serious questions with stuff like this:

I've already made a pact with Vork so I can never vote him. So it doesn't really matter what I think, because I will never swing a vote his way.

And I don't like his FL push. I don't see the genuine thought process behind this:

I think Flavor is just trying to hop on to my VT claim to cloak himself. Very sus.

FL, trying to cloak himself? How and why? And just, how do you get this from this situation?

And then he goes and votes FL's pet JPG wagon?

This is the best vote today IMO. I'm watching out for {James/Skellen/Zulfy} especially because they pin me but there's nothing that substantial to back up those feelings, besides James' awful 1061 but he's also the towniest of them outside that so.

VOTE: Zulfy

if I can't get DEB I want this.

In fact, let’s talk about you for a second.
Please explain this: how did we go from Vork’s wagon, to the head of Vork’s wagon (me) to lynchbait (Dr. EB) to the head of my wagon (Zul)? You look like wagon-jumping scum to me, because you’re literally providing no thought process, and even though you moved to the head of my freaking wagon you’re still pushing me. It’s the strangest thing I have literally ever seen.

[James Brafin]

Crap never mind on Zul I thought he was voting me.
Why do you think I’m town?
What do you mean by scum equity?

[James Brafin]

WHY AM I SCUM

[James Brafin]

WHY AM I SCUM

Is this you upset that you rolled scum or asking people to case you?u

It’s me asking for you to actually make a case rather than just be like RC and say stuff in attempts to get your way with town.

[James Brafin]

@Duck- how's the spreadsheet progress?

Done for now. I was mostly noting the question stuff, but it did provide some play style insight.

[James Brafin]

If Zul ends up town, we need to look hard At the VC. There’s no way there’s no scum on that wagon.

[James Brafin]

I have no idea what to do here. On one hand, Vork is absolutely scum in my book. On the other, we really need a lynch to move into n1, and I feel like I’m doing absolutely nothing.
So I’m gonna ask a question: why is everyone voting the person they are voting? You know my reasoning, but I’d like to see full cases from everyone else.

[James Brafin]

I trust Zul 0% after all the bull he just spewed. He just overall pings me and that Pr claim feels like scum trying to stay out of hot water.
VOTE: Zul
If town, Vork is scum.
If scum, Baezu is town but doesn’t clear Vork as this could be distancing.

[James Brafin]

Zulfy was flippyNips slot.

I think it’s safe to say that if FlippyNips was scum with either DEB or myself, he would have taken extra precaution to not get replaced.

I feel he got replaced because he wasn’t posting in game because he was scum, but not posting, but he thought he had checked into the game so the replacement probably snuck up on him.

There’s zero chance he replaced out on his own volition.

You keep alluding to this so I have to address it: I think flippyNips just doesn't like playing mafia all that much. Who do you scumread from posting?

Time is running out and this is all my fault, I'm a PR. Not gonna tell you which one tho. That's on you if you lynch.

This post seems completely off tonaly to me. Why would you tell us you’re a PR, then not tell us which one, then intentionally set up a lynch wifom and not a NK wifom if you were really a PR or a VT trying to draw the NK? It feels like one big scummy AtE to me. In fact, you’re still mostly fluff-posting with AtE attempts in there, which is why I think you’re scum. Even after you decided so kindly to join us again, you’ve been incredibly LAMIST without actually explaining why you shouldn’t be lynched. That sets off so many alarm bells in my head.
Vork, first Zul looks like he’s trying to distance himself from you. Second, the only wagon you’ve actually ever been on this game is an inactivity wagon. Then, when the inactive player responds, you 1v1 them until you can repeat the process. It appears very town without actually generating content, and that doesn’t sit well with me.

[James Brafin]

Look, Skellen, Flavor, and maybe Asuka are town for me based on the content they’ve been generating. Prob S_S too, but I feel like that’s getting a little iffy. I’d be OK with lynching anyone else (except me obviously), but I really have my heart set on Vork or Zul, since they are the two that both seem scummiest to me and actually have a freaking wagon. Let’s not waste D1 with a complete bullshit wagon that comes out of nowhere.
P-edit: hitalt may also be town, but right now he’s only null with a gentle lean. I need to do some ISOing to get an idea of where some people sit. But I am confident in Zul and/or Vork being scum, and Skellen and Flavor being town.

[James Brafin]

Resistance = scum usually for day 1 and 2 later on it’s not as accurate, but anyone that it’s tough to run a wagon up on is likely scum.

[James Brafin]

Resistance = scum usually for day 1 and 2 later on it’s not as accurate, but anyone that it’s tough to run a wagon up on is likely scum.

I know this seems obvious, but do you have evidence for it?

I don't know if it's actually true.

May I please direct your attention to every game Inferno390 has played ever.
Consistently on day 1 if scum is pressured there is immense resistance.

[James Brafin]

Am ok with a Baezu lynch.

[James Brafin]

VOTE: Baezu
Claim now or forever hold your peace.

[James Brafin]

Yep. It’s super scummy that I scumread Baezu since the middle of the day and would be fine with him being the lynch. Is it my top for today? Nope. Will I compromise? Sure.

[James Brafin]

At least give him a chance, Doctor. That was three hours ago.

[James Brafin]

FRICKING STARGAZER
At least we know why LUV was lurking now though. I hope you can explain yourself tommorow.
Why you dead Zul?

[James Brafin]

Skygazer. Sorry, been a long day and not quite coherent :p