Mini Normal 2076: Game Over

[Vorkuta]

Hi again to Not_Mafia, Gamma Emerald, LUV, Penguin, and schadd, and hey to the rest of you!

Here's a completely random RVS vote topped off with a dash of WIFOM
VOTE: Vorkuta

[Vorkuta]

shit schadd you told me this would work

[Vorkuta]

You were slightly difficult to work with in our last game together Not_Mafia.
Do you think we'll have some better synergy here?

[Vorkuta]

pika pika pika pikaaaaaa pika pika pikachu

shit this is going to be hard

[Vorkuta]

You think NM is going to be easier to "work with?"

Yes very

[Vorkuta]

N_M use struggle!

[Vorkuta]

Ok schadd- I'm sufficiently hyped up. How do we begin?

is this a fruit vendor claim?

[Vorkuta]

VOTE: schadd
gotcha

[Vorkuta]

Do penguins and otters not get along or something?

There are otters in the south pole?

[Vorkuta]

Why does it look like you cherrypicked the_worst otter photos and the cutest penguin photos to use in your VCs there ?

[Vorkuta]

VOTE: gamma emerald

Uh huh

[Vorkuta]

is this a fruit vendor claim?

I've seen it before

[Vorkuta]

Shoot if I say more things will schadd suspect me of wolfiness?

[Vorkuta]

Uhhh hi guys... come and play maybe?
The game's started?

[Vorkuta]

Zuckerberg- because my friend visited facebook that one time on my computer, does that mean you can hack my role PM?

[Vorkuta]

Jokes on you, my laptop is too old for a webcam

but you already knew that

[Vorkuta]

You might also gain something knowing reviewer/designer preferences/habits but yeah.

I doubt it'd be possible to try and find a "similar" 13 player normal and try and work your way backwards through the setup.
Hell- we don't even know if it's 8-3.5, 9-3, 9-2.5 or 10-2 (town vs scum &or traitor)

[Vorkuta]

VOTE: Vorkuta
100% random

[Vorkuta]

already 3 pages deep

RVS ends after 3 pages? TIL

[Vorkuta]

Ah ok- I didn't know if you were an alt or experienced a previous game.

Random Voting Stage can basically last for as long as it wants to (RVS vote like ~20 pages in one of my previous games), and especially as not every single player has reported in yet.

[Vorkuta]

I’m an informed Miller who knows there isn’t any Loyal modifiers and there is a total of 4 scum. -Morality

*chokes on food*

Hi

[Vorkuta]

No, I was in that game

[Vorkuta]

despite my first instinct being that I kind of hate it

Welcome aboard!

I'm going to straight-up ask you to stop the in-character shit

Fair warning: we're also playing with Not_Mafia who's going to be waaaaaay more fun

Vorkuta - have you got what you wanted out of your self-vote?

You're like the first person to acknowledge it so *shrugs*

[Vorkuta]

Not "explicitly"

Ah well, it looks like I don't have the gravitas to pull anything off with it.
Wagon time
VOTE: N_M policy reasons

[Vorkuta]

Watch him OMGUS me back

[Vorkuta]

I mean Zuckerberg is pretending to be Lt Commander Data

no

and is putting in quite a bit of effort in parodying that persona.

This will make it very difficult to read his sentences/tones/genuine..ness and will just make the game even more complicated than it needs to be.
Like if I were to comment in rhymes or RAP

hi LUV

, that would make just reading my posts painful, LET ALONE trying to determine my alignment from them.

We have a few "parody/gimmicky" alt accounts here and there and people have mixed opinions on them.
CDB is against them

[Vorkuta]

Ninja'd so hard

[Vorkuta]

Oh
I'm sorry...

[Vorkuta]

VOTE: Redemption
Sure- let's go

[Vorkuta]

3 consecutive

lynches

votes

on Schadd

FTFY

Can confirm, am trying to bus schadd. Penguin was right in

schadd/Vorkuta/nm

perfect

[Vorkuta]

/s
Is this the first time you've seen an early RVS wagon?
How were the first few pages of your previous game, and was there scum going for a quick mislynch?

[Vorkuta]

+1, have enjoyed in doing such things before.

All aboard the redemption

lynch

wagon

[Vorkuta]

If we forget about it after two weeks,

That's typically not how it works.

This site has a way of doing things.
Once people have decided to fluff/shit/jokepost and RVS for a while (can last from 1~50 pages ), actual serious discussion begins. The veterans can correct me, but an RVS wagon that hits completion is an extremely rare

and meme-worthy

thing.

And nah- keep speaking. You might say a bunch of things that would make us reconsider and keep you for town

or you might scum!slip

[Vorkuta]

Vorkuta turned his

bus

wagon

on me now

FTFY:
A wagon is a bunch of votes
A bus is when "scum buddies" throw their partner under the bus to save themselves.

If we were both scum, then I would be bussing

[Vorkuta]

Yeah- it's up to us to decide whether to buy your posting as a genuine concerned newbie, or whether to assume you're scum hiding behind your newbie card.

btw, do I still have mine?

ITT: Vorkuta being scummy.

*grumbles*

[Vorkuta]

MODDDDDD

Also I still want the N_M policy

pedit

MOD BULLYING AND ABUSE OF POWER AND HARRASSMENT

*ahem
please don't, there's a lot to live for
Unless you're scum
In which case die

[Vorkuta]

I think what I said was within the rules.

Nah it's all good.
You're just seemed a bit uninformed

hey guys, did you see my word choice right there?

about the game you're in.

Cheer up!
Put on a fight!
Let's dance!
Who's town and who's scum, gut instinct read, GO!

[Vorkuta]

pika pikaaaa pika pika pikaaaa

aww it's adorable

I read it as genuine newbie concern, considering he has only 1 newbie game under his belt, and it had a different RVS (from a quick browse)
I'll take the wagon though, just to see what's up and what

bad

reasons people come up with for jumping on it

[Vorkuta]

relatively short order

"2nd game on site" short order?
We'll see how he behaves as the wagon grows

[Vorkuta]

Look, now I'm fucking up big time

out of character

Look- redemption: these votes early on don't mean anything. We need 7/13 votes to lynch you, and anyone putting you at L-2, L-1, or HAMMERING without a rock solid reason (which they won't have) so soon is effectively scum-claiming.
There will be like 4 or 5 wagons before the end of the day, so no worries at all.

If you think "people voting on me" = "I'm screwing up/being bad" then that is completely and 100% wrong.

GIF, you might as well get me out of there.

Stop

Spoiler:

recent site rules prohibit replacement talk/discussion, and it's unwise to bring that up especially considering PenguinPower is kind of a big scary mod person
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79321

[Vorkuta]

This really dowsn't vibe right with me

Me explaining technicalities and vocabulary is NAI *shrugs*

[Vorkuta]

Or maybe I wanted to poke around a bit?

[Vorkuta]

Also I still want the N_M policy

[Vorkuta]

Wait until he makes a few more posts, then you'll see

[Vorkuta]

Tinfoil hat theory time (esp. seeing as I'm giving redeption the same treatment)
MJL is channeling her newbiness to deflect/avoid suspicion.

Also lawl at guessing who N_M is voting for,
My guess is penguin because:
-Batman Returns
-

P

enguin

P

ower-

D

anny

D

evito

[Vorkuta]

Do you find a consistent trend of me doing that across all games for the purpose of avoiding suspicion? Or do you find an overall upward trend of increasing comprehension of the game as I gather experience?

This.

I don't like how you simultameously play the confused newbie card and can pull this type of analysis off.
This discord vexes me

[Vorkuta]

I mean can you REALLY TR a slot that basically greeted people and disappeared?
I'm assuming schadd has meta on LUV- that's why

Either way I don't think LUV can be beetlejuiced in the game via wagons, so we move on and

@mod ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIFF PROD

[Vorkuta]

but there's something stilted here that feels uncomfortable

+1

I have nothing solid except mild gut discomfort

webmd says I have cancer

, and I'm not a fan of necroing/stalking people's games for meta.
However seeing as she linked that game (oh god the players and setup) a quick skim shows that the tone is more or less consistent. Either way this slot actually posts and plays so I have more pressing players to

press

address

[Vorkuta]

VOTE: Gamma
Your posts were cooler/better/solvier in mixtape.

[Vorkuta]

VOTE: Redemption

>genuine newbie thing
>Next level scum play

[Vorkuta]

I was suspicious of you, but my face has never actually voted you as you resolve later probably

[Vorkuta]

Why is lurking alignment indicative?

It is for some players no?
Like several players on this site have an established meta of being lurky lurky while scum and active while town.
Plus "scum equity" does not necessarily = alignment.

However I expect an older player not to vote Mary Jo for that reason.

Ehhhhh counter: older players probably have enough experience to know when they're being played and they might be on to something?

[Vorkuta]

People who are nice don't play mafia.

Can confirm- am not nice and play mafia.

@GE- dance for us

[Vorkuta]

I'm told penguin posts a lot as town so I buy that.

The others.... eh....

[Vorkuta]

Who told you that?

redacted

Also it was brought up a few more times in BTXI and you didn't necessarily argue with that

[Vorkuta]

Wait Do I read this upside down or something?

[Vorkuta]

VOTE: Gamma
Your posts were cooler/better/solvier in mixtape.

Idk felt like a gamma wagon

[Vorkuta]

Because my wagon was much more hip and trendy duh

[Vorkuta]

Anything fun happen in your scum!PT while you were out?

VOTE: Redemption as elsa's inactive
Update on game state please and thank you

[Vorkuta]

Wtf a proper and game related question coming from N_M?
What happened? WHAT CHANGED?

Also lawl at schadd getting lynched 3 times

[Vorkuta]

Guys stahp
Also I'm happy w/ redemption's moonlogic.

VOTE: Gamma L-2, and kind reminder that I started this wagon

[Vorkuta]

Hold on...elsa jay is in here??

Fuck no confused it with robin (GE's avatar). Oops.

Also, vork asking about scum pt assumes there is daychat in the question.

I'm being facetious

cant tell if youre being sarcastic or serious but nm DOES play the game behind the bulk of his trolling...

Yes but he made 1 whole serious question which is already more than our previous game together.

Why are you happy with the moonlogic? It doesn't make sense at all.

I'm calling it: it's out of his scum range

[Vorkuta]

How do you know his scum range?

I gauged him. He's too pure and innocent to pull this off as newb!scum.

[Vorkuta]

fuck my whole post got deleted when I posted

You can sometimes click back/forwards in your browser and you might regain your post.

I'm voting Gamma my dude.

You see why I TR the guy?

pedit
Easty won't count (unless GIF psychic)

[Vorkuta]

Guys stahp
Also I'm happy w/ redemption's moonlogic.

What is moonlogic?

Logic that only makes sense to the person it comes from.

*logic that makes sense only if you are high on something. How high? Moon high

[Vorkuta]

MOONLOGIC, really?

No.... your "schadd 3 rvs lynches" case is moonlogic (to US anyway), no matter how much you try and explain it

also no offense, I just find the term to be funny

MAYBE it does to you: I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as your first game's RVS stage went completely differently, but after a few games here you'll know that it's quite easy for people to RVS someone to L-3/L-2 and for it to be more or less COMPLETELY NAI (non alignment indicative)

Also scum hunting in RVS is just funny.
Like redemption: let's have players A,B,&C be scum.
So they decide "hey, let's all try and get the player D lynch IMMEDIATELY, as soon as the game starts.".
All 3 players vote for player D.
What do you think happens next, and is this a good play?

[Vorkuta]

Please vote the usernames not some other names that are not usernames

[Vorkuta]

I don't know to what extent "informed" means

I'll stop you right there
-typically if town is informed about stuff (ie- there are 4 mafia in this game

triggered

), town says so with their first post.
-if you were informed (via role PM) about someone being conf!town how'd you re/act? My guess is that you'll leave them alone, have like 1/2 interactions with them, and never do anything about it UNTIL they're like @L-1. I doubt you'd act on it D1.
-COME ON REALLY?
Is this your first game where RVS lasts for several pages for some people and more for others?
I'm giving Redemption quite a few newb!town points, but a quick skim of your activity in other games makes it difficult to give you the same courtesy.

NM's vote should be on Vorkuta.

Hey no wait
Come on N_M: you had 1 decent question in you. Do you have a few more decent votes left in you?

inb4 "no"

[Vorkuta]

Redemption: LuckyOtter

Zuckerberg

:
Performer:
Not_Mafia: MaryJoLisa

@MOD

- please do that thing where you cross this out and replace him with Psyche

[Vorkuta]

Entirely dependent on the player.

imgspoiler seeing as we're gifing like mad

Spoiler:

I asked her to put herself in a hypothetical informed!PP's shoes as a thought experiment.

But yeah ok. In that

triggered

game, I was informed that "If I targetted mafia (with my vig shot), they would die", and I literally only understood this to mean something like "there are no doctors/roleblockers" @end game.
Fair.

Also you can take your town points and shove them somewhere cold.

[Vorkuta]

Spoiler:

pedit

Spoiler:

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIFF GIF POINTS

also something tells me I shouldn't be doing this to a big scary mod...

[Vorkuta]

I'm not getting the townvibes off of Redemption

but they're definitely not *town* vibes.

But you sure as hell can't tell me in good faith that you're getting "scum vibes" from him, and that's good enough for me in D1.
My "town!red" case is that there's no way scum!red would be able to fake this, as it's too "genuine"/"authentic newbie"/"

bad

"
Like yes- I've had (my 3rd newbie game on site) a game where (another) newb!scum becomes extremely self-conscious of speaking up and panicked with every single vote on her, but there were a whole other bunch of issues with the slot and I think it's the exception and not the rule.
BUT: I think redemption is being genuine and if he were scum he'd fake it more convincingly.

Spoiler: PostGame

This feels like a teacher "see me after class" threat help im scared

PEDIT
NO- DANNY DEVITO IS NOT PENGUIN I GUESSED THAT FIRST AND N_M SAID NO YOU DONT GET THE CREDIT

[Vorkuta]

I don't think NM is a viable candidate today

Honestly I think that there are enough people who are actively "unhappy" with his shtick to push a policy through.
It's a good compromise lynch but yeah @MJL- let's actually scumhunt

Any takers?

Spoiler:

I mean can you REALLY TR a slot that basically greeted people and disappeared?
I'm assuming schadd has meta on LUV- that's why

Either way I don't think LUV can be beetlejuiced in the game via wagons

, so we move on and
@mod ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIFF PROD

Or we can sort by activity count

[Vorkuta]

nor for the game state.

I disagree- penguin and I TR him as a result of his "flailing" (semantically incorrect but appropriate)

[Vorkuta]

Who is Easty and who is Danny Devito?

I too enjoyed playing with

crow

macabre and figuring out who "spray" was (me).

My first experience as scum was ridiculously stressful

ehhh...
He's flailing because he's been lynched D1 as VT before (Newbie 1928)- the "early lynch" would explain his flailing more than "being scum" IN MY VERY HUMBLE OPINION.

ALSO lawl just after checking out that game

game where

(another) newb!scum

This was yyotta

[Vorkuta]

How is that not the answer?

No all those are wrong

ikr

HANG ON why is the GE wagon being derailed?
No no no, BAD: we deal with Gamma's slot first and then

we can sort by activity count

Also there's no point in voting LUV- if we want to pressure someone I'd rather it be psyche next as my experience with gimick-alts puts zuck-slot as a scumlean.

[Vorkuta]

You know the pop-in on the timing is REALLY convenient and sus.

Also false: have flailed as scum before, and have flailed as town before: I failed reaction tests so *shrugs*

[Vorkuta]

Whatever it is, I do believe it is a *genuine* reaction.

Ditto- hence:

-We can agree that he'll sort better/later/with more content and that there are more pressing slots to address
-kinda rude to lynch a newbie D1 2 games in a row

Thus I am against a redemption lynch for now, and I'm done with trying to wagon him

as I don't want to break him

[Vorkuta]

as it seems like he has site flaked.

as shit

VOTE: Psyche
nice pop-in
Now dance for us

[Vorkuta]

ah

shit

EBWOwhatever

[Vorkuta]

VOTE: Danny Devito

Why?

Who?
FTFY

[Vorkuta]

Oh shoot PP is going to outpost me

[Vorkuta]

We think me

-No I brought that up first *grumble grumble*
-N_M said no

[Vorkuta]

Shoot am I still below N_M? *grumbles*
also wtf schadd- you can't just conf!town psyche for... ^

[Vorkuta]

redemption I townbinned WAAAY earlier
penguin can be town, but I'm assuming you have stronger meta on him as

I'm told penguin posts a lot as town so I buy that.

Also because your brackets had me at null this is how I read them
{conf}
{pretty damn town}
{prolly town}
{town lean}
{null}
{null scum}
{scumy}

pedit what the actual fuck I swear you're messing with me

[Vorkuta]

Idk I've seen quite a few scum/traitor lynches D1 in my past games so *shrugs*

As I love saying
info lynch > lurker lynch > policy lynch > scum lynch

[Vorkuta]

I think I'm obligated to vote for pikachu now

[Vorkuta]

Guh he's in prod range so *shrugs*
If he scumposts then I'll wagon, else I like psyche

[Vorkuta]

His ISO just reads bad and like he's trying to earn points instead of solving.

I've seen "dejected"/"D1 is boring hurry up and end it" play from town before, but something tells me that
-he should know better
-he's doing it for LAMIST points
-he's just trying to stir stuff up for the sake of causing discord up in here

So I like my vote where it is (as I can't summon others here) and he hasn't danced enough for me

[Vorkuta]

Yeah pikachu- schadd's high-effort post made it pretty damn impossible for you to survive D1 without something juicy so do your best!

[Vorkuta]

to at this point be using your vote a bit more forcefully than to add to a wagon...

Crap ok I get psyche's point

He's disapproving of us using our votes to wagon lurkers instead of solving as it smells like "well I can't do shit, D1 is horrible, so here's a lurker wagon to see what's up".

Hmm do I buy this? I don't buy this.

Wagons -> fluidity of wagon -> resistance of wagon -> associations -> ??? -> solves

[Vorkuta]

that they don't even bother reading me properly lol,

Lel I read your shit and gave you a few questions that you conveniently ignored (#376)
Tbh there's no point in arguing with you as I have you pinned for town but backing down isn't my strong suit so *shrugs*

1. 3 RVS lynch in a row on Schadd was very suspicious early on in the game

Welcome to this site- this is meta/standard-operating-procedure/tuesday.
Like if you don't buy this, I can link games where ANYONE has been put to L-3/L-2 simply in the first stage of RVS and this was IN NO WAY ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE.

she pointed out that legitimate concern.

#74&#79 are actually suspicious as MJL has several games under her belt and I'm 90% sure

too lazy to read

there has been similar RVS funny stuff in at least one. Her level of

ovaries

suspicion/git-pings does not match her experience and analysis, but I'll table

US, not UK

that for now

GammaEmerald (my current lynch fyi)

Gamma's gone- vote elsewhere please
But this part I'm fine with

around

#334

's posts

FTFY
Yeah no, this part and your Gamma read I'm fine with. The timing (5th person on the wagon ) is maybe suspicious, but I'll allow it.
However the moonlogic in your first 2 steps doesn't stand

super defensive from the post 340 to 374

You mean his quality gif posting in #340 #343 #344 and #345?

[Vorkuta]

@REDEMPTION
Ok- the first time you called PP defensive was in response to

So...scum hunting in RVS is scummy unless your MJL mentioning an RVS wagon on schadd because the RVS wagon on schadd was a ruse.

and his barrage of gifs to support this.

This PP sentence is completely valid, and points out several contradictions/cases of double standards being applied.
It's not defensiveness- as in my experience this would be accompanied by an increase of "emotions"/"anger"/"backlash"
Thus your reasoning for a scum!PP isn't one I can get behind (as much as I would want to )

[Vorkuta]

Reads after pika responds and performer & CDB make a few more posts I suppose

This game roster is hilarious with a perfect mix of old-timers, newbies, trolls, and animals. I love it (pref with fewer lurkers )

[Vorkuta]

what is scummy about me asking a question?

Way to go miss the point and COMPLETELY REDUCE my argument against you to simply "asking questions"

[Vorkuta]

Yay! Vorkuta gets it.

I want to get the '???' part of it though

I’m still trying to decide if I hate Psyche’s playstyle or if he’s just scum.

+1
I like my vote on him

[Vorkuta]

twins

I resent this- I am clearly N_M's trainer as shown in #31

but one runs more his mouth than the other and use criticism to compensate for failing to make up his own mind.

I wonder which one I am lel

Anyway: lettuce be cereal

@Redemption

So...scum hunting in RVS is scummy unless your MJL mentioning an RVS wagon on schadd because the RVS wagon on schadd was a ruse.

This needs to be addressed before I buy ~3 of your reads

pedit
stir away

[Vorkuta]

and people have real life

Wtf you mean people don't use every waking moment to spam the F5 key on mafiascum?

[Vorkuta]

I mean...we do. But not everyone.

smh

If you're really a cop,

[Vorkuta]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game
Nononono

"NORMAL" games have certain rules to make them fair/balanced/whatever.
The fact that he claimed an Night-0 action is funny.

It's like me claiming Serial Killer- it's a joke because it's impossible

[Vorkuta]

Alright, if no one contests

I mean I can counter claim Penguin's N0 result but then you'd get a heart attack

Gamma is not active either lately. What is going on?

has site flaked.

no idea

Do someone have an input on these gentlemen to break the tie?

Yes- PP is town and GE is going to to be replaced so let's vote someone better

pedit
I'll take over P_P- rest assured that your name will be cleared once you come back

inb4 L-1 with intent

[Vorkuta]

*sighs*
Ok redemption- PenguinPower has his name is green: that means he's a bigshot moderator person and is honor-bound to be honest about the rules

Anyway: we wanted to highlight The "Setup" section https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... Game#Setup
This tells us that a "Night Start" that not everyone is aware about is an unbalanced mechanic and not allowed in Normal games.

There are like 50 places where "all of the rules" are explained as well
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76192
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ormal_Game
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _Mechanics
if you REALLY want to read stuff

[Vorkuta]

I see vanilla cop in this image. It is described as a normal for any alignment. I'm confused now.

Yes- Penguin Can be a cop. He can be both a scum cop or a town cop- the rules allow that. He can also have any of the modifiers listed in the wiki page.

HE CANNOT be an N-0 cop without the rest of the players knowing that N-0 was a thing or even took place.
That's just unfair/BS/garbage/ridiculous/cheating/unbalanced/against-the-rules

[Vorkuta]

If you have any game MECHANICS questions then feel free to ask, but let's focus on game-solving

Can you reply to OUR questions to you?

[Vorkuta]

Not_Mafia used LOGIC.
It's super effective!
It hurt itself in its confusion!

[Vorkuta]

@Psyche.... wat

Spoiler:

Now that I'm less grumpy than last night, hi everyone. FYI, my username is commonly abbreviated to CDB.

Very alignment indicative Newbie Greeting Tell /s

Not a lot for me to get my teeth into in those first few pages. I've played a couple of forum games here and there over the last couple of years since when I used to be really active, but holy cow this is the biggest case of culture shock I've had as an old so far. It might take me a little time to get my head around reading people posting in this kind of style, and I'll try to be patient despite my first instinct being that I kind of hate it.

Very alignment indicative description of old-timer self

Zuckerberg, I'm going to straight-up ask you to stop the in-character shit; I think it's pretty funny but it's always really crap to have to read a player through an extra layer of artifice that they're putting on (given that artifice is the main thing for which you have to look when you scumhunt). It's going to be tiresome and anti-town. I don't really expect you to agree to this, but I wanted to get my objection on record in as honest and polite a way as possible.

Very alignment indicative "Zuck cut the novelty-alt crap" request

Vorkuta - have you got what you wanted out of your self-vote?

Sorting/Solving question but can come from both alignments to generate content- NAI

Performer - if you were happy to name your two townreads when PP asked, why not name them as a matter of course when writing 124?

erhhh... this is just calling performer out on 'BS'

VOTE: MaryJoLisa for this post - this doesn't seem like a protown attitude.

Dammit Penguin this might also be AI.

sorry CDB

[Vorkuta]

Spoonfeed

us

me and get an unvote and town points in return.
Or just stay on your high horse and eat rope

[Vorkuta]

Look you can't be like "muh quotes/ISO" when we've clearly brought up issues with your previous cases that haven't been dressed.
Here's my FIRST GO at your wall- Penguin probably has better and well phrased cases and I'm lazy/not even looking.

Spoiler:

like, to write 130 as scum he'd have to really put himself into the mindset of a townie not just beholding the challenge before him; he'd have to anticipate not just the intense distress - a potent mix of frustration, desperation, and hopelessness - someone in his veterany position might feel having to deal with the current meta of gimmicks and spam, but also the kinds of constructive action he might pursue in such a situation under such emotional duress

Or.... he just writes what's on his mind and what he feels is common courtesy to inform us about? You're giving him WAAAAAY too much credit for his #130- it's completely NAI as I've broken down above

It really does set up a great explanation for his diluted activity/apparent interest in the game going forward,

for literally BOTH SCUM AND TOWN CDB

but hypothetical scum CBD isn't satisfied in just resting on his lurky laurels

oh? And do you know this for a fact/invoking meta, or are you just BS'ing?

He engages with the game, generates and shares substantive and decently reasoned observations about more than just a few slots and their prospects as reads.

what makes him so different from normaldecent!scum then? such wow- I completely forgot that the process of receiving a scum!rolePM makes it impossible for someone to emulate town behavior /s.

If he is scum this game he probably already deserves the win. But he's not.

Like wtf even is this sentence I can't even begin to fathom how many wrong inherent assumptions, invalid premises, leaps of logic, *insert cliche here* are condenced into this sentence.

Also your penguin scumread justification is literally TL;DR "he's lazy D1"

[Vorkuta]

Ok I got it.
You haven't actually read his entire post- you just skimmed/TL;DR'd through it and gave it town points.
How do I know this? well....

FYI, my username is commonly abbreviated to

CDB

.

CBD's

130 comes

I don't think

CBD

would've

Fine- I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you and I were smoking different things when we were reading his #130.
I (and I assume quite a few people) read it as an NAI "hey guys" + catchup, while you hyperanalyzed and divined all this stuff from it. Your prerogative to do so,and ours to fundamentally disagree.

the contradiction between that and the kinds of contributions he's made to the game as well as his voting patterns are why he's scummy

-Why don't I get exactly the same treatment?

he has more posts than me... I knew it

Wagons -> fluidity of wagon -> resistance of wagon -> associations -> ??? -> solves

Yay! Vorkuta gets it.

@redemption might as well be brought into this
Being wagonhoppy early on for the sake of generating pressure and to help develop reads is NAI at worst and Town at best.
In fact the exact opposite: complete confidence in your initial first few reads and refusal to acknowledge/think otherwise is anti-town at best and scum at worst.
"PP is wagonhoppy and vote-changey and therefore scum" is not a valid argument"
He's just as confused as the rest of us, except he generates pressure with his votes (as opposed to parking them who-knows-where) and... well... oh just read #553 ^

[Vorkuta]

but relatively intricate coherence...... that I don't think comes through...

Ayt- I can accept this explanation of your P_P read, but I'm not a "tone reader" (is this TL;DR an "I sense a disturbance in the force" read? yes it is) like you.
I have pointed out a similar issue with MJL but for slightly different reasons so I see your "discrepancy between words and scumhunting" point

HOWEVER
What if this wagonhoppy-flipfloppy

get it?

methodology IS how penguin scumhunts and provides maximum utility to town.
OR... wait for it.... What if he's more focused on solidifying his TOWN!BLOCK first and then with statistics/PoE being more useful to him he'll "switch on"?

Like come on.
There's no way Penguin is a lynch here.
Also why do I have to defend him?

[Vorkuta]

way more initiative through most of this game. And again, at the same time, he definitely has the most forceful/opinionated personality of all of you - and arguably is among the most engaged

Ok I think I need to understand THIS SENTENCE in order for anything to make sense to me.

So you're saying PENGUIN... while being the most active player

*grrrr

in this game, has a solid personality (actually I read him as laidback and slightly troll-y: he's not really pushy/defiant/stubborn but you do you), and is engaged BUT hasn't been showing any initiative?

Oh
So you mean if there's a quiet spell during the game, random Player X posts but Penguin will contribute/join, BUT Penguin will never actually initiate a discussion during a period of inactivity?
Is this what you're getting your impression from?
Dafaq is "initiative"?
His pattern of JOINING wagons as opposed to STARTING wagons?

Whatever someone else can have my relay baton

I'm not voting for P_P unless someone scum!slips

wishful thinking

[Vorkuta]

felt the need to do this as town

as opposed to feeling the need to do this as scum...?
Like maybe he mistyped something or wanted to update something and all that- how is an immediate edit/correction/comment scummy?

when that's obviously what he's accusing Gamma of being?

Because it's reductive and LAMIST can be applied to random choice quotes from almost every other player here

Easty is anyone other than Vorkuta

I can see that but what did he smoke to come up with that name?

pika pika pika pikaaaaa

schadd making a meme.... is alignment indicative in any way/shape/or form?
I don't want to delve into this at all

[Vorkuta]

in spite of being corrected multiple times, is sounding like he’s trying to construct a newbie persona.

Hell- he can have me hook, line, and sinker on that one.
I'm slightly frustrated with the slot, but I really don't think all this is in his scum!range but *shrugs*

[Vorkuta]

VORKUTA VERY OFFICIAL 1000!% GUARANTEED TO BE CORRECT VOTE COUNT VOLUME 1

Detective Pikachu

: Performer, ChannelDelibird, schadd_, PenguinPower (4)

PenguinPower

: Psyche, Redemption, Not_Mafia (3)

MaryJoLisa

: Gamma Emerald, Lil Uzi Vert (2)

Lil Uzi Vert

: LuckyOtter, MaryJoLisa (2)

Psyche

: Vorkuta (1)

schadd_

: Detective Pikachu, (1)

[Vorkuta]

inb4 vorkuta has been banned/modkilled for this post

Also I'm just trying to catch up to penguin's post count, don't mind me and carry on solving please

[Vorkuta]

Do you guys want to agree on to who to lynch now?

*looks at activity log*
yes... let's decide before giving any of these low-content posters a chance to reengage with the game

I propose that we decide between PenguinPower and Dectivite Pikachu

No way in hell PP is our D1 lynch. All your (plural) cases on him are flimsy and the wagon comp is bad.
Pika feels like lynchbait tbh

IN A BILLION GAMES

[Vorkuta]

Town needs to town it up more so I can cross their names out please and thank you.
Stop doing the "I'm acting scummy to draw out scum but I'm actually town, they'll never know teehee" thing and get in line for town points

[Vorkuta]

Just returned from over a day of absence without mentioning or justifying it.

I'm sorry guys I was out for a few hours. It was quite necessary. Please don't scum read me for it

/s

[Vorkuta]

I'm a ub

AHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA
No

INTENT

[Vorkuta]

He unvoted, and if Danny Devitto IS YOU then.... guh

[Vorkuta]

Wow
This is fucking rich coming from you N_M

[Vorkuta]

@mod

It would be great to beetlejuice you in here
ALSO Gamma's been replaced in.... 5 games so far- what do?
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=70776&start=1725

[Vorkuta]

Do not attribute that nonsense to me, pls. Thx.

Oops what the shit
My bad

MS screwed up my nested quotes

[Vorkuta]

I'm a

ub

so I'm basically not confirmable, lynch away just get schadd tomorrow.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... sal_Backup

@Otter
Random chance (4/13 PRs so ~30%) <= Certainty <= 66% (random number)

[Vorkuta]

answer asap

[Vorkuta]

shot potato

So it's like a game of hot potato...
Are you a vegetable vendor and do you lose if you have remaining potatoes by end game?

I accept this claim

[Vorkuta]

mjl just acts hella scummy as town or smth

Meta or read from this game?

[Vorkuta]

We can keep scumhunting that's for sure

[Vorkuta]

Mr personality are you really town?

You know we already have N_M's nicknames to deal with so this isn't exactly helping

I can potato each night, and potatoing potatoes

I'll have 2 please

From my understanding PP is scum trying to protect Redemption and counterwagoning Pikachu

If by ""PROTECT"" Redemption you mean argue/deal with the slot then sure, but I call dibs on TR'ing him first. The guy's newb!town who's paranoid of getting lynched D1 again and is clinging to his moonlogic. It's outside his scum!range.
The fact that he won't respond concretely to any of our questions is pretty damn frustrating, but then again so is Gamma's several day long disappearance, N_M's magical votes, the general inactivity in this game and what have you.

The pika counter wagon.... eh..... I mean it was an inactivity wagon for all intents and purposes. I have no comments on pika except for his claim which I don't buy

[Vorkuta]

and counterwagoning Pikachu

Yeah no this is BS- look at Penguin's ISO, look at the ~100post gap between #645 to #737 and call him responsible for all the pika drama that happened in between.

/s

[Vorkuta]

I picked up on that but it wasn't exactly the most obvious nickname at a first glance

[Vorkuta]

VOTE: chennisden

[Vorkuta]

Shit I want this now

[Vorkuta]

u promise pichu?
I don't like it when people promise me weird things like this and don't follow through

[Vorkuta]

VOTE: Performer Beetlejuice

[Vorkuta]

it's k- he pinky promised so I know I was wrong /s

His ISO is cringe-worthy, his predecessor slot was horrible, and he's pulling the "oops I was lazy so pls don't take me seriously".
This is one of my personal pet-peeves and I've seen scum pull it 8 times out of 10.

But he pinky promised.

[Vorkuta]

We should probably think of who to lynch between PenguinPower and Detective Pikachu. More than half of us want one of them dead so lets agree on it now while we can shall we?

I'm man enough to admit that my posts look scummy because they are quite agressive. But at least I'm helping town. What have you done for the last 24 hours?

Because right now, to me, you're acting just as scummy as Gamma was.

biggest motherfucker here ;;;

These read REALLY BAD to the point where I find myself wondering whether redemption is pushing it too far.
Still not my pref. D1 lynch but.....

And @redemption: answer OUR (PP & Vork's) questions!

[Vorkuta]

I didn't know that people actually cared so much about my take on the game

So we can completely ignore half the player base and only focus on the opinions/reads of the "good"/"old"/"veteran" players?
Ofc not.
Your opinion and logic is just as relevant as

N_M's

everyone's

[Vorkuta]

@REDEMPTION

@Redemption

@redemption might as well be brought into this

This else

[Vorkuta]

@MODDDDDDDDD

What are you doing stalking me
git out of here

[Vorkuta]

Nice sheeping btw

SHEEPING

is when you vote for someone BECAUSE another person did so.
I'm not aware of UNVOTE SHEEPING being a thing but *shrugs*

How does this apply to the current game?

*sighs*
Your scum read on penguin is BASED on the fact that he votehops randomly.
This quote ^ is an adequate explanation that accounts for his flippity-floppity-votey-hoppity behavior.
IN LIGHT OF THIS NEW INFORMATION, would you like to reassess your read on him (and to some extent yours truly as well)?

Also come on- you picked THIS 1/3 out of everything to reply to?

[Vorkuta]

*pokes this game with a stick*

@MOD

: CDB?

[Vorkuta]

VORKUTA VERY OFFICIAL 1000!% GUARANTEED TO BE CORRECT VOTE COUNT VOLUME 2

Detective Pikachu:

Performer, ChannelDelibird, PenguinPower, Not_Mafia, Redemption (5)

Redemption:

MaryJoLisa (1)

Performer:

Vorkuta (1)

Chennisden:

schadd_ (1)

MaryJoLisa:

Lil Uzi Vert (1)

Lil Uzi Vert:

LuckyOtter (1)

schadd_:

Detective Pikachu (1)

Guys go vote somewhere:

Psyche, Chennisden (2)

[Vorkuta]

Most other people who've been wagoned feel like lynchbait
I want to poke around here
VOTE: Schadd

pedit
ikr- honestly tempted to L-1/hammer as I previously said as I don't buy the UB claim and that's probably the way it's going to go but *shrugs*

[Vorkuta]

vork have you any experience with anybody here??

Hi again to Not_Mafia, Gamma Emerald, LUV, Penguin, and schadd, and hey to the rest of you!

Technically schadd was a mod and my "ongoing" game with chennis just ended

[Vorkuta]

Pretty damn similar, (lol at performer checking into that game just now)
My "meta" read on you is more based on BTXI as you were more.... heated/active/involved and couldn't be your laid-back self.

Also how bad would you feel if N_M pushed you this game?

[Vorkuta]

So I'm back from IRL stuff and I see what's up here and I see this

I am dissapoint.

[Vorkuta]

Also hi nomnom

Uhhh chenn pinky promised that he wasn't scum so idk how to feel about that

[Vorkuta]

This is quite interesting
I've caught up and reread the ~10 pages or so like twice and my reads haven't changed at all

I'd love to analyze the wagons/fluidity/movement and what not so I'll get around to doing that, but something tells me that if pichu was town he'd be hammered already....
and I personally hate this "i flip green, just watch me" appeal so....

intent

[Vorkuta]

I mean as in- the next time something ramps up on him- I won't be on the wagon, but intent

[Vorkuta]

Let's see... I don't like how melodramatic and over-the-top psyche is being with his posts, and I can't determine whether that's just his posting style or whether he's scum or not.
I still like schadd for scum
Finally people are seeing that redemption is just high on his own supply
Pichu pinky promised but I don't like the wagon activity around him
Pika is not a UB
LUV can be town
Penguin can be town
Otter can be null
N_M can be policied if he mentions danny-devito one more damn time
MJL is a coin flip
Performer I agree with but I have an unexplainable gut ping towards the guy so scum-lean for really *hand-wavey* reasons

saudade is mason

[Vorkuta]

Excuse me

Pichu pinky promised but I don't like the wagon activity around him

As in I won't vote the guy, but if we CFD at deadline I'll hammer

[Vorkuta]

do you have an alignment read

yes- you're scum

Oh on pika
uh.... I can only make tinfoil cases for him being scum.

[Vorkuta]

sorry vork r u trying to lynch town

u promise pichu?
I don't like it when people promise me weird things like this and don't follow through

i pinky promise im town

Idk I buy this

As for his wagon: He's been behaving as extreme low hanging fruit but I just don't like the way people have been approaching that slot.

[Vorkuta]

{Penguin}
{Redemption, Psyche}

{Otter, DP, LUV, pichu}

{nom x3}
{MJL, Pefrormer}
{schadd}

Not_Mafia tier: N_M

Uhh.... yeah this seems not wrong.

[Vorkuta]

you'd be suprised

I know... this game actually has quite a few more slots that I really flipflop on than my usual games.
Like I'm usually able to get a semi-stable read (sometimes wrong but wtv) on 3/4 players- here I'm struggling to get reads on HALF the cast.

Like redemption can go both ways- he is THIS (holds 2 fingers up very closely) CLOSE to pushing his 'crazy newbie moonlogic' schtick too far and into a scumread.
MJL can be 100% genuine and have 0 scum intentions.
Pichu could've betrayed me with his pinky promise
N_M could be.... nvm
and so on

However if I keep flipflopping on every other slot then I can't progress the game so *shrugs*

[Vorkuta]

What an odd 180.

I mean I've re-read his ISO to determine where exactly I want to shove him in my

tier

reads list, and he provides utility to town. I just don't like the MANNER in which he provides it.
Either way, I'm hoping that slot resolves later, however (as in the post above) I'm very open to the idea that Psyche is openly powerwolfing and whatnot

[Vorkuta]

very

open

to the idea that Psyche is

openly

I should learn more words and take lessons on how to improve my sentence structure.
One day I hope to become as eloquent as redemption.
Today is not that day

[Vorkuta]

tingting -> vorkuta (avatar)

wat

also

VOTE: TingTing

I know that one! That one's me!!

See it's so easy

[Vorkuta]

A) Who?

N_M can be policied if he mentions danny-devito one more damn time

hnngggggg sorely tempted to put my vote where my mouth is, but I think he warrants a vig shot, not a lynch.

[Vorkuta]

Hello Vorkuta

VOTE: Vorkuta

You see... I know the guy can do names.
So what happened between then and now?

[Vorkuta]

If you use your cluelessness and narrowminded-ness in order to play it safe and hide yourself from everyone

*sighs*

For what its worth N_M has provided more content than I could dream of, esp compared to my last game w/ him.
And he was a mason there

[Vorkuta]

why are your standards so

low

high

FTFY

viewtopic.php?p=10661239&user_select%5B ... #p10661239
Our mason ladies and gents- very fun and insightful read.

[Vorkuta]

There are solutions for these problems

img

Spoiler:

[Vorkuta]

I don't believe there are any other good choices that are going to get lynched before EOD

We're being stonewalled/corralled and I don't even think it's by scum tbh

[Vorkuta]

Some wise people told me not to do pre-flip associatives and all that stuff so.....
But let's see VOTE: Performer

[Vorkuta]

A performer vote is atrocious here

I'm not a player who gives up on scumhunting because "oh a lynch on X won't go through, so why bother" Like I wish I had the brains/reasoning/motivation to push a slot that I find scummy but not a "town-approved-D1-lynch

TM

" but this is the next best thing

[Vorkuta]

there's no way scum chennis hard defends town dp

This reasoning is invalid and I have counterpoints but I'll allow it because I get the essence of your appeal

[Vorkuta]

It's not a compromise lynch- it's a slot that I flipflop on everytime I ISO him.
The fact that he's a veteran player also scares me- this is prime scum material that I want to bite into.

'Compromise' would be LUV (inactivity ish), N_M (hmmmm), Redemption (for obv reasons), or DP (just end this day already)

[Vorkuta]

I'm a ub

AHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA
No

INTENT

Friendly reminder that I also hate this claim

[Vorkuta]

Guh third time is charm

intent

Pika revise your claim or eat rope

[Vorkuta]

Or I was
-out
-reaction testing to see whether anyone would abandon ship and try to save their scum buddy

Also as the first person to doubt the ub claim.... no

[Vorkuta]

I mean who doesn't want it both ways?

[Vorkuta]

Yes our supposed vig- by all means: shoot me over someone like oh I don't know... N_M. /s

Also I invoke self-meta. I do this shit and draw it out every time I have a hammer. Be thankful I didn't put in a countdown timer like previously

[Vorkuta]

For the record- this is also a reason to draw out the hammer.
My experience is that twilight discussion is... not of the same quality as pre-hammer talk is.

[Vorkuta]

*cough coughs*

or are you withdrawing the pinky promise?

I'm also torn between how much meta to take in about you from the C9++ open that just finished.
That's why you get a slide from me too

[Vorkuta]

scum never self hammers upon town request

A50 in said Open

But as disgusting as this seems... has MJL ever hammered someone in a previous game?

[Vorkuta]

This flips scum, it's obvious

So- is MJL conf!town for hammering said fellow scum, or just bussing?

[Vorkuta]

MJL it's alright, no one is going to demand justification or whatever regardless of the flip-
I'm slightly butthurt because I wanted the actual hammer and I like playing it close to the deadline but *shrugs*- what's done is done.
Also nom x3 is going to be annoying about it as a result which does not make my heart leap with joy.

@N_M
Kindly please confirm whether you mean Psyche & LUV or whether we completely suck at interpreting your nicknames for us.
Also macabre does/did it better

[Vorkuta]

Technically he posted a picture of a crying pikachu

[Vorkuta]

guess the current setup

was

wasn't

necessarily

FTFY

She just interpreted your numbers and post differently.
Either way I intented so there's no need to pressure her for the hammer.

Also I like the deadline dance

[Vorkuta]

that schadd claimed a pr earlier

Kindly provide quotes as his ISO doesn't give me anything explicit please and thank you
Unless you're trying to bait out the NK on him and that's just ugly

[Vorkuta]

What specifically about the "deadline dance" do you like?

The game of 'chicken' and 'what will happen' and 'will they or won't they'?

Also as I mentioned- the quality of discussion before and after the hammer is different.

[Vorkuta]

The people that aren't contributing to twilight are scum who don't want to divulge anything they don't have to until the flip

[Vorkuta]

You do that by wagoning every single living soul in sight!

Also one day I hope to do something meme-worthy enough for schadd

[Vorkuta]

Way to see people stoop down to N_M's level.
I'm proud of you guys

[Vorkuta]

schadd/Vorkuta/nm

perfect

Your mum

/Your dad/Your nan

Perfect

Oh shit no I take that back- the vote was dead serious

[Vorkuta]

honestly this is one of the games where hes seemed the most town

Desire to policy N_M <<<<< My town read on him tbh
Like some of his posts actually have content in them

[Vorkuta]

Ahahahaaaa oh this is hilarious

[Vorkuta]

Anyone want to claim fruit or to have been visited for shits and giggles?

*ahem*
VOTE: schadd

Him getting off the pichu wagon immediately after his UB claim is suspicious
Him not 100% supporting it the second time he was wagonned is also sus

[Vorkuta]

Will the vig please claim so they can feel bad about themselves (itsk you can claim 1-shot), but at least we have a conf!town

[Vorkuta]

Anyone want to claim fruit or to have been visited for shits and giggles?

Neither

[Vorkuta]

@mod

Would it be possible for a mafia NURSE inherit a TOWN doctor PR?

The wiki is a bit murky on 'cross factional backup inheritance'

[Vorkuta]

Vig over PGO

-PGO would've claimed much earlier
-lack of experiences with PGOs
-Docs & Vigs make better pairings than Docs & PGOs in my very humble and naive opinion

But ok fine

WILL THE PGO claim so we never ever look in their direction ever again?

[Vorkuta]

This new meme role that just got legalized
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _Gun_Owner

Basically it shots everything that targets it at night

[Vorkuta]

I lied
It's not legalized in normal games
This game cannot have a PGO- dammit

mod

penguin

[Vorkuta]

It would help greatly with VCA purposes and wagon associations.
I'll take a conf!town after 2 dead PRs today please and thank you

Seriously just claim 1-shot and say you're useless now
We won't blame you (too much)

[Vorkuta]

So this game setup is slightly 'night action' heavy given the reveals and the heavily implied "PGO"

/s

Given that our PRs are dead our town power is low and scum probably has a few decent roles in play (to balance out a doctor and chen's clearing role)

The vig claiming right now would give us a single conftown (at the very least) that we'll need as our night game has gone and disappeared.

[Vorkuta]

is there a reason you almost haven't engaged me in a sorting fashion at all

shhh I'll save the best for later
Just know I'll have my eyes on you

not crumbing shit here

chenn's role isn't anything

inb4 during endgame the mods chime in and are like "oh we designed chenn's role to be functionally equivalent to blah blah blah"

I disagree- it also implies a tracker/follower/voyeur type soft-investigative so there's that.

[Vorkuta]

you can feel free to ask me anything about my wagons yesterday

What wagons
You were Pika -> unvote -> Performer naked vote -> Pichu -> Pika

and upon rereading your ISO I can make a pretty damn good case that Pika wanted to make some SvS theater & tried to distance you via "bussing"