Mini Normal 2075 - Game Over

[u r a person 2]

alch i feel like i'd be a very easy push for scum you to do here tbh which worries me

even assuming that sky's early scum read on me was basically a reaction test (which I CAN believe)

this still pings the shit out of me

[u r a person 2]

I thought being worried early was scummy?

going for a player just because they made an L-1 vote (esp when that player doesn't like having attention drawn to them as scum) is concerning, no? seems like a very easy push to make without getting any blowback and that's what I remember from alch's scum MO from sneks and noodles

You said that you don't like attention drawn to you as scum. Can you flesh that out for me? What is your self-meta assessment of how you react to early pressure when you're scum?

[u r a person 2]

Very vocal about pushing the quicklynch for no reason and the rest of their posting wasn’t contributing anything. That sort of player is easy to push and could be claimed as a “cut the crap” wagon.

Also you have seen my scumgame before so you’re the last person I’d want to push based on that. Calling yourself an easy push isn’t really a good defense of yourself either because you’re not doing anything to refute the actual scumread on you, you’re just trying to play the victim.

oh shit you might be town

not really defending myself tho? just saying that i could def see scum you make that push

I have never agreed that this was a scummy post. I thought it was a slightly, maybe even somewhat~ town-indicative post at the time

[u r a person 2]

poe

so you're TRing me??? why??

this always felt townie

[u r a person 2]

This doesn't feel svs

Spoiler:

Very vocal about pushing the quicklynch for no reason and the rest of their posting wasn’t contributing anything. That sort of player is easy to push and could be claimed as a “cut the crap” wagon.

Also you have seen my scumgame before so you’re the last person I’d want to push based on that. Calling yourself an easy push isn’t really a good defense of yourself either because you’re not doing anything to refute the actual scumread on you, you’re just trying to play the victim.

oh shit you might be town

not really defending myself tho? just saying that i could def see scum you make that push

Why does this make you townread Alch?

aggressiveness seems genuine because it was relatively quick

Some scum are very aggressive. I don't see why that makes a townread.

don't remember alch as aggressive scum and usually scum aggression is faked or played up anyways

[u r a person 2]

This also doesn't feel SvS

I don't think playing to get reactions is in bad faith at all

Well they are if you don’t know what you’re doing and what you’re trying to accomplish.

i would argue that my push on urap and his reaction helped spew him as town

Urap seems town-ish because they're scum hunting lol.

[u r a person 2]

fuck i completely forgot about the fake hammer

yeah sky is town, so is insomnia

[u r a person 2]

It’s not normal for me to catch scum D1.

Maybe I’m improving :O

this feels town, kind of

p.edit thanks for that i appreciate ya

[u r a person 2]

I mean you could substitute it with LAMIST. Absolutely no need to tell us all that, and it’s just an attempt to say ‘Oh I wasn’t paying any attention this game, yay town read me’

Also it’d lies because he sheeped my vote.

Your meta reasons are utterly meaningless because anyone can manipulate their meta.

This was not a bad read

[u r a person 2]

feels like tvt

Spoiler:

They don’t suddenly become a different person when they’re scum.

Also that’s exactly about meta.

no but how they approach the game/thread changes

He’s not approached the game at all so far.

I think I know how you play though so I’m not worried.

He’s not approached the game at all so far.

I think I know how you play though so I’m not worried.

it's ok you're lockwolf and we're just lynching you today

I like your Avi.

are you town reading me?

because you're 100% wolf for me and i'm going to tunnel you the rest of the day phase

Let’s hope Ceejay tunnels you and we have a circle-tunnel.

[u r a person 2]

the whole setup spec convo with roster felt like I was conversing with town, too

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: bambi jay

L-1 babyyyyyyy

this feels townie

why lol

lots of 'y's feels very casual, easy going

[u r a person 2]

This is where you try and sort your lower town reads.

no, this is where I make sure I'm not nuts before I lynch a claimed pr over the slot I promised I would vote today

[u r a person 2]

so to be clear, insomnia is straight up lying about "rainn scumreading me for most of day 1" and me having "never commented on montosh" and every time i point out that they're lying they straight up ignore me

yeah, this is not scum-indicative for insomnia.

and yeah, I know...

[u r a person 2]

aight

i've never played with insomnia before so i'll trust you there ig

thanks. it's a tough town read to make a case on because of this, but yeah, he's town

[u r a person 2]

i think this game is solved.

it's literally cj or roster

and it's really just cj

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: CEEJAAAY

if insomnia is scum, I'll be spending many post game posts apologizing to alch, but let's do this

[u r a person 2]

yeah there is

rainn is a very good player

and the initial, "oh i town read you because I can confirm an aspect of your role" bit would have likely worn off"

also rainn was confirmed town, which is a reason in and of itself

[u r a person 2]

And you buy into him neighbourizing bambi when he was a prime lynch candidate and fake claim he's loyal to confirm bambi?

wait hold on

[u r a person 2]

sorry, rainn wasn't confirmed town, but is a very good player, and was pretty well town read. I don't see why cj doesn't make that kill. could have even been a pr hunt. really, who could know

substitute my reasoning in last post about rainn kill into my reasoning for bambi kill. I had the two mixed up

[u r a person 2]

bambi was killed BECAUSE he was confirmed town fam lmao

correct. this is what i was trying to say, i just got the names mixed up

[u r a person 2]

Bambi was confirmed once ceejay revealed he's loyal, so it isn't a scum!ceejay hit, unless he fucking deep wolfed and played it 200iq which...meh.

It's not that high of an iq play it's just that it's above average I guess

yes, i understand how that worked. we're on the same page about cj confirming bambi. But that doesn't make it a play that scum!cj doesn't make.

think of it this way, if you're scum neighborizor, right? you're going to confirm somebody because for a variety of reasons you have to use your role.

you're going to kill that person BECAUSE you've confirmed them. so it's not really a question of would scum!neighborizor!cj kill the person they confirmed. What you should be considering is who would they confirm?

CJ here picked a very good player, and that's a good pick from either alignment. On the other hand, town!cj MIGHT pick someone like you or sky or roster who were generally considered scummier and would probably be easier to lynch than bambi. scum!cj almost never makes those choices over bambi

[u r a person 2]

welp

i think that basically clears roster.

which in my mind confirms scum!cj

can we actually hammer there now?

[u r a person 2]

inadvertently also adds credibility to town!insomnia because he has every motivation as scum to NOT fake that it was a hammer and allow roster to clear himself

[u r a person 2]

I already did

insomnia's vote is currently on sky

[u r a person 2]

gg folks!

[u r a person 2]

lol

[u r a person 2]

i still think it was one of my better games, tbh

[u r a person 2]

setup spec is certainly one of my weaknesses

[u r a person 2]

alch made one post during the run up on montosh that was super scummy after montosh flipped scum. I think that's mostly bad luck. I think it was a fairly scum-indicative post, but even the most scum-indicative actions come from town just by coincidence on occasion, right? I don't think I feel too badly about it

[u r a person 2]

why do i feel like we still lost

well, it wasn't lylo, so i have no idea =)

[u r a person 2]

given today is saturday, I think we'll be in twilight for quite a while.

how bout them yankees?

[u r a person 2]

why do i feel like we still lost

because im a traitor and roster is last scum

even i am pretty sure that would be terribly unbalanced

[u r a person 2]

hi skitter!

[u r a person 2]

jinx owe me a soda

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: skygazer

I'm pretty certain roster is town, and i really don't like the "oh you're right" vote from sky. Every time I've seen that it comes from scum

I've exhausted myself on this game, and I really don't think I'm making any headway past this

[u r a person 2]

i've put hours into this game after getting yesterday wrong.

I've been going round and round, and I'm just not seeing scum roster here. Our interaction about setup felt like I was dealing with town. His d1 tone really feels town

I'm confident I've put my best effort in trying to figure this out, and this is where I'm at.

If I'm wrong, I'm sorry town, but I've done my best

[u r a person 2]

UNVOTE:

[u r a person 2]

it wasn't a reaction test, but you felt too resigned to be scum there. Went and took another look trying to assume you were town

both of you had bad associations with the montosh wagon, but roster's are worse. Further, rainn was pretty hard town reading sky during that wagon, but was starting to turn on roster. I guess i don't see sky making that kill

roster's tone was great d1, that's true
but substance was lacking

roster did feel townie when discussing setup spec, but in retrospect it was obviously wrong. Knowing that CJ was town, i think we have to assume that there is a scum pr that's been hidden up til now
maybe a role cop, but maybe just something else that allows alch's role to be a hint. tracker, watcher, etc.

God damn this game is hard. props to one of you

i dunno i think i need you guys to 1v1 after all

[u r a person 2]

so if roster is scum, the plan is clearly to get sky lynched. Otherwise there's no way he kills insomnia, who was scum reading me for at least some of yesterday over sky who was calling me their biggest town read. This isn't unreasonable because I was calling roster town and had voted sky for some of yesterday.

He could have killed sky, which would have set insomnia up to possibly mislynch me, but that would have had to be the plan because i was hard tr'ing insomnia by end of yesterday

If he had killed me, then it would have been sky and insomnia. Insomnia was at one point voting sky yesterday but im not sure how strongly he was holding that read. I also don't remember sky's thoughts on insomnia. I gotta go look at those, but if neither one was town reading the other, then that would have made me the best kill for scum!roster, which would in turn make him unlikely to be the scum.

watch this space

[u r a person 2]

okay, so insomnia was starting to scum read sky right before the faked "that was the hammer" bit into a real hammer on cj

sky was starting to scum read insomnia for being insomnia (pushes not based in reality), but had indicated trust in me saying that was town-indicative for him


so to recap
if scum!roster kills insomnia, he has to try and get sky lynched because sky was town reading me.

if scum!roster kills sky, he has to try and get me lynched because I was hard town reading insomnia

If scum!roster kills me, maybe sky sheeps my read on insomnia but maybe not (because why would insomnia kill me? I was town reading them) and insomnia was starting to scum read sky
Insomnia also was pushing back on my reasons for town binning roster as i went through the dif slots, so maybe he turns that way. He's def no predictable.

It's possible that roster decides that pushing me to vote sky was a more consistent path than hoping sky and insomnia scum read one another, but if I had been scum!roster, I think I kill me there

[u r a person 2]

roster looked slightly capable of seeing either or me and sky as scum yesterday, but felt resistant to both of those

so from sky's perspective he would have to be somewhat unpredictable as to where he would vote. I was hard town reading insomnia, but had given reasons to town read both roster and sky

so if sky is scum,

and she kills insomnia,
she's hoping that either roster's scum read will fall off the fence onto me, or that my scum read will fall off the fence onto roster.

and kills roster,
she has to get insomnia to weigh his scum read on me over his burgeoning scum read on her because i wasn't lynching insomnia

and kills me,
she has to hope that either roster about faces on insomnia or that insomnia about faces on her

of those three choices, i think it's pretty obvious that insomnia was her best kill

[u r a person 2]

like, it's not a super great position for scum!her in any of those situations, but the one is clearly better than the others. either of the others basically requires someone to wifom their way out of a read

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: skygazer

[u r a person 2]

roster, if you want to vote me, you need to give me days to make a case on sky.

This really is never my scum game. You were wrong about us rc/skitter and I busing in that hydra game. It wasn't busing in the slightest. The goal was never to get one of us lynched d1. There was anger over a different game that spilled into that game, but it was never a plan to get one of us lynched.

I'll walk you through that and a dozen other reasons to town read me this game, but I only woke up to to take a leak, so i'm not doing it tonight.

[u r a person 2]

i dont reall give a shit what you prefer mate

sky played a great game, and i had to find a round about way to get there

but i can show you im town

[u r a person 2]

here's a tidbit of one scum-indicative bit I mentioned earlier, but then back to sleep

This is a post from the post game because slaxx never released the pts for this game

Subject: Micro 852 Gators at the Gates: Tales from the Georgia Swamps

hey, uh, I'm sorry for lynching you through your claim, chenn

also I should have known GL was scum when he was like "oh, ok, you convinced me." and that was the end of the conversation

it even pinged me at the time

yeah lol

I was considering fighting against the chen lynch but I felt that would have looked obvscum too

wasn't sure how best to play it. an all-town lynch on chen was maybe possible and would have been cool to see how that played out

In our private thread, I made a case for how chenn had scum slipped. she was town, of course, and gl started to argue with me. But then I made a more forceful case, and he was like "okay, you convinced me" It had the exact feel of sky here

[u r a person 2]

wrt to her lynch vote on cj

ok gn

[u r a person 2]

got a few minutes this morning, but most will have to wait for late this evening due to my schedule today

[u r a person 2]

VOTE COUNT 1.1
skygazer (2) ~ alchemist21, bambi jay
u r a person 2 (2) ~ skygazer, insomnia

rainn

(2) ~

montosh

, u r a person 2
bambi jay (1) ~

rainn

not voting (3) ~ ceejaynova, rosterfoster,

lil uzi vert

VOTE COUNT 1.2
skygazer (2) ~ alchemist21, bambi jay

rainn

(2) ~

montosh

, u r a person 2
bambi jay (2) ~

rainn

, insomnia
u r a person 2 (1) ~ skygazer
not voting (3) ~ ceejaynova, rosterfoster,

lil uzi vert

VOTE COUNT 1.3
bambi jay (3) ~

rainn

, insomnia,

montosh

skygazer (2) ~ alchemist21, bambi jay

montosh

(1) ~ u r a person 2
not voting (4) ~ ceejaynova, rosterfoster,

lil uzi vert

, skygazer

VOTE COUNT 1.4
skygazer (2) ~ alchemist21, bambi jay
rosterfoster (2) ~ insomnia,

rainn

montosh

(1) ~ u r a person 2
ceejayvinoya (1) ~ rosterfoster
alchemist21 (1) ~ ceejayvinoya
bambi jay (1) ~

montosh

not voting (2) ~

lil uzi vert

, skygazer

VOTE COUNT 1.5
bambi jay (3) ~

montosh

,

lil uzi vert

, insomnia
insomnia (3) ~ alchemist21, skygazer, u r a person 2

montosh

(2) ~ bambi jay,

rainn

ceejayvinoya (1) ~ rosterfoster
alchemist21 (1) ~ ceejayvinoya

VOTE COUNT 1.6

montosh

(3) ~ u r a person 2,

rainn

, skygazer
bambi jay (2) ~

montosh

,

lil uzi vert

insomnia (2) ~ alchemist21, bambi jay
alchemist21 (2) ~ ceejayvinoya, insomnia
ceejayvinoya (1) ~ rosterfoster

VOTE COUNT 1.FINAL

montosh

(6) ~ u r a person 2, skygazer, ceejayvinoya,

rainn

, rosterfoster, bambi jay
bambi jay (2) ~

montosh

,

lil uzi vert

insomnia (1) ~ alchemist21
alchemist21 (1) ~ insomnia

[u r a person 2]

Let's start with the obvious and probably best reason to town read me.

I began pushing montosh when no one was. I came off for a bit to try and pressure insomnia into answering questions, and when he did, I got off of him, and went straight back to montosh

I’m not going to do any ISOs unless you say “Please daddy insomnia”

Nor am I answering any questions

VOTE: insomnia

not interested in entertaining this for even a moment.

insomnia, anytime you wanna give me a reason to get off this policy wagon would be fine by me

i don't find much in insomnia's cases compelling, but he's obviously town. One of us is having a bad game - obviously I think it's him~

VOTE: montosh

Then when alch was looking like he'd get the noose, I

begged

rainn to reconsider

rainn, sometimes you get pretty tunnely

and sometimes you get kind of lazy once you get a poe

and i mean no disrespect

but i wish you wouldn't vote there

Then, when CJ needed a case against montosh, I went on a posting spree to ensure that he got lynched.

No one worked harder to get montosh lynched than I did.

[u r a person 2]

Frankly, that should be enough for you to hammer sky and give town the win here, but earlier you were talking about how I hard bussed RC/Skitter

First, I never placed a vote on them. In fact, I've never placed a vote on my partner in either of my scum games. That's not to say I couldn't, but it would be a departure from the norm.

If you are thinking about the spat in that game that led to me getting a mod warning, you need to understand the context. For that, you'll just have to read the last 3-5 pages of this game, which ended during D1 of schadd's game where RC and I were scum together.

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=79219

We were quite angry with one another

[u r a person 2]

Now, Rainn wasn't scum reading either me or sky, but if I'm scum, boy did I have her pocketed. Read these posts. She's not just town reading me, she's figuring out how she would have to position in order to hard defend me. How hard mode is scum!me trying to make this game to first hard bus my partner and then kill the person who has me as lock town?

btw i'm kind of giving lots of town points to urap #722.

lots of it.

i regret that hammer

it could have been a perfect win

but...

idk urap2, i'm not particularly confident in alch being town here

i'm really fine with the flip

it would also make insomnia calm down if he flips town, so we can insta-lynch mon tomorrow

and if we both stay out of the alch wagon and it flips red

it's going to be a shitshow with the rest of the poe saying "you weren't on the wagon though"

i can whiteknight you, but if i'm not in the wagon as well, it's going to be make the job harder

[u r a person 2]

if you're hammering sky, fine.

otherwise let me keep going, roster

[u r a person 2]

Yeah, not my best moment. Now let me tell you why that happened.

I had JUST completed tis game:

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=79650

In which I pushed through a lynch on the lynchee day 1, losing the game. The guy we lynched accused me of tunneling him to the point of being sub-human, and offering that to alch was kind of my way of making amends, if you will.

[u r a person 2]

Now, obviously I didn't do it, but that's a great next topic: Was my read on Insomnia a TMI read?

No.
Subject: Newbie 1921: The Carousel of Sadness - Game Over

Thoughts on this post...

I don't like this vote coming from urap. Usually, he gives a lot of reasoning behind his votes and you won't see him voting often mainly because he tries to evaluate whether his reasoning for voting is right. He also likes to explain his votes and portray people as scum. So, I believe this is a parked vote, given he didn't present any scum case.

I think this is probably a real thought, though it's not out of his scum range, for sure.

This post is interesting to me. Urap didn't really game solve and when he gets voted by nav, he's asking PvT a question to make it look like he's trying to game solve. Another interesting thing is that he town reads PvT first and only then asks questions in order to make it seem like his tr isn't lazy. He didn't seek an answer from PvT because he didn't stress on the question, he only did it once urap was pushed by nav. I also believe his "

I'm waiting for Pvt, TTT and whoever's left

to come and talk with me" seems like he's waiting to sheep some votes or get people's opinions on potential wagons that will form after those persons get back.

This feels like a real thought.
I had seen pvturist post earlier, and figured that he would get around to answering me. He didn't, and I forgot that he had posted until I went back to check as a result of talking with nav.

There's a bit of misrep with the bolded bit, but that's well within insomnia's town range, unfortunately It was always just Urist and TTTT I've been waiting for.



I believe insomnia scum posts to have a certain feel to them that I'm still working to explain (We've only recently encountered one another), but I don't think I'm feeling that here. I do think that if Insomnia is scum, I will figure it out eventually.

This is an earlier town game of mine where I say that misrep from Insomnia is within his town range. Later in the game (posts 565 forward) I'm getting scum read by insomnia much like this game, and I called him town, much like this game. And the reason is that this shit is just part of insomnia's town game. Go look.

[u r a person 2]

Alch wasn't in that game? You were making amends to yourself?

sure, not a bad way of putting it. TW and I had a long conversation about tunneling, and my name is U r a person 2, for goodness sakes. So having someone tell me I was treating them as sub-human kinda cut deep.

[u r a person 2]

But here's the one that should bring it home, roster.

If I am scum, and sky is town, then there is no way I come into this lylo with an immediate vote on sky.

urap is town for sure

feels like insomnia's urap case is trying to set up a path to victory if im lynched/if cj is lynched and flips town

but mayb thats because urap is my strongest TR idk

I was supposedly her TOP TOWN READ

[u r a person 2]

If this is the lylo I pick for myself as scum, I'm trying to lynch you here, buddy. Not her.

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: Alch

wrap it up bois, we caught him

VOTE: mom

wagon up bois

i want to see one of mom/alch go tbh idc which

keeping options open, while making sure they are on the montosh wagon if it's going through

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: alch

fineeeee

VOTE: mom

more flip flopping around that wagon. she didn't really want it.

[u r a person 2]

welp

i think that basically clears roster.

which in my mind confirms scum!cj

can we actually hammer there now?

inadvertently also adds credibility to town!insomnia because he has every motivation as scum to NOT fake that it was a hammer and allow roster to clear himself

oh shit you right

VOTE: cj

this was exactly how GW sounded in that gator game we played together.

Honestly, I don't have much else on scum sky. she played a marvelous game. And if you remember my scum game, you know I could find reasons to scum read her if I were scum

[u r a person 2]

oh we win! Yaaay!

[u r a person 2]

good hammer, roster. Seriously well played, Sky

[u r a person 2]

oh my gosh it is such a relief to win this one after screwing the pooch and leading mislynches on D2 and D3

[u r a person 2]

I'm bad at setup spec, and I'd never seen a hint like that before

and everyone looked townier than him by play

[u r a person 2]

cj had an opening that I thought was scummy, his anger at people tried to read him felt scummy, and his engagement with the montosh wagon seemed scummy

sky played great, insomnia was clearly town, and roster looked town by tone. It was a hard day

[u r a person 2]

in retrospect, none of it was scummy!

[u r a person 2]

huh.

weird

[u r a person 2]

Tfw you lynch NK and Lynch the 3 town PRs in a row and still lose. I was worried at the end when

you all lynched

Ceejay. He was supposed to even say if it wasn't Insomnia it was Sky because Ros and URAP was proven.

Why lynch what amounted to the 1-shot Cop btw?

Fake news, I will inflate my ego. I clearly defended CJ.

Yeah, you had a better day that day for sure than I did.

D1, tho...

i don't find much in insomnia's cases compelling, but he's obviously town. One of us is having a bad game - obviously I think it's him~

VOTE: montosh

Montosh is town 100% let's put a bet on it.

Alch's scum this game.

In all seriousness, GG, mate. Well played

[u r a person 2]

Lmao well you pushed on nothing from my PoV

I dunno what you mean here

[u r a person 2]

I thought it was a good kill (as i said in my analysis)

I don't think there was any reason to expect me to be more likely to push you than roster in lylo

and I'm not sure there was any reason to expect Roster to town read me over you

[u r a person 2]

I think your other options were worse

[u r a person 2]

Thank you for modding!