Mini Normal 2080 ft. My Cats [Game Over]

[u r a person 2]

I have 150+ posts in less than 24 hours. If this town can't see that I'm town, this game is lost.

that is a lot actually

i guess you are more active than bop by a fair bit

UNVOTE:

so you're trying to figure out scum, what's the town bloc?

[u r a person 2]

no but you replaced into a slot that was under pressure, and given what would have been an already made choice to effort scum, how does scum!you react to this wagon? Like do you just stop efforting at that point is that what you're saying?

I think that was actually a bad reason to unvote

VOTE: shoshin

[u r a person 2]

Your whole game feels like a first try at power scumming to me

and I think cop is actually a great L-1 fake claim on d1 because of the miller claim

[u r a person 2]

And I don't think nero is wrong about lurking out

you lurked out of that jungle medicine game

you flaked on our very first game together and your activity level had dropped before that point too

like

[u r a person 2]

Can I get teacher and DP to give some thoughts on this please

[u r a person 2]

Skitter, why do you say shoshin is far outside her range, and what kind of confidence level do you have there?

[u r a person 2]

@shoshin so you said you efforted bop because you really wanted to beat rc

what's giving you the motivation to effort!town here? and even if you don't want to answer that, why shouldn't I just take it as a given that you're motivated for this game, and also that you would be motivated for those reasons regardless of alignment?

[u r a person 2]

@shoshin I feel like you're town reading me now. Why the change?

[u r a person 2]

I started feeling the change in tone towards me and the willingness to answer my questions before I unvoted you for a sec there

so was I just wrong in sensing that?

[u r a person 2]

Can I get teacher and DP to give some thoughts on this please

I'm having mixed feelings, I'm trying to decide whether we're playing [a game where town lynches strongest PR d1] or [a game where town let's scum get off from a strong investigative claim], I've lost games to both of those scenarios before

I think I would like the sho lynch more if nom hadn't started pinging me just a little bit, but uhh, I also recognize that my 'pace' in deciding things like this tends to be a lot slower than most town are okay with

(Still feel bad for Egix, did you see that he conceded and mod actually denied it? Ughh that was like, a huge reason I was second guessing myself on him because I was pretty sure he would concede. sorry this is o/t)

I've got the same reservations. I dunno if you've run into chennisden but I pushed a lynch through on her D1 over her doc claim.. it was real. but i've also seen instances where scum benefits by putting off their lynch for a day even if it's as simple as having a pr because we're in a normal
And yeah, I saw that and put all of that together and, well, good read lolol

[u r a person 2]

What you noticed is correct. I'm answering your questions because this is a point in the game where that's necessary. I expect town in your shoes to reevalute their read on me as a result. Not doing so is concerning.

well im not talking to you to improve my typing lol

[u r a person 2]

Yet you're still voting me. Where are you reevaluating? You seem to be talking to me with an agenda: prove Shoshin is scum. Where's the genuine attempts to sort me based on probability & facts?

It's exceptionally improbable that my play in this game comes from scum me. I said I'm capable of it but I'm not even sure about that.

I mean, even if i were scum, there would still be town who think you're scum so I don't really think this whole "whoever town reads me is town" stuff is a great way to keep your 99% rate

but the day is not going to end while we chat and you seem to answer my questions while you've got a wagon on you which is a nice change of pace =P

[u r a person 2]

@shoshin were you scum reading nero for his early push onto cinn, or did you have him as town for a time?

I'll just take you at your word because I don't want to go look but if you were town reading him, then why is him pushing you now so much worse than that?

[u r a person 2]

You didn't answer my questions, by the way. Why are you dodging them? No answer for them, or intentionally withholding information from me for some pro-town purpose?

Uh I really didn't mean to dodge a question which one

[u r a person 2]

Pretty sure? it's still l-1

i think it's l-2

[u r a person 2]

Yet you're still voting me. Where are you reevaluating? You seem to be talking to me with an agenda: prove Shoshin is scum. Where's the genuine attempts to sort me based on probability & facts?

oh i kind of thought these were rhetorical

Like literally this exercise that we're going through right now is me reevaluating. I'd rather you be town, if we're being real. and as an aside, scum!me does not try to lynch town!you by engaging with you lol. That is not a winning strategy, do you think?

[u r a person 2]

i mean ... do u still really want to do this?
i'm more confident on town!her than town!you rn

although tbf idk if scum!you says this knowing she'll flip green

I mean, I'm kind of thinking ya

Can you walk me through or point me at why she is so far out of her scum range?

[u r a person 2]

@URaP - why the jump to not counter? Isnt trading a PR for a scum always worth it?

If there is a town cop and shoshin is scum, here are the possibilities as i see them

town cop claims today, we lynch one of them and then the other if we guess wrong. town cop never gets a check because nk

town cop doesn't claim today, we lynch shoshin. cop can play their normal game and get their check(s)

town cop doesn't claim today, but claims tomorrow - same deal as the first situation, but town gets an extra check and scum gets an extra use of shoshin's pr (if any)

like, I'd rather the last two personally

[u r a person 2]

His recent push on me is the last straw. Please review how he decides to push me. He's ignoring key pieces of evidence to get me lynched.

Yeah I see what you're saying there. I kinda sympathize with him not doing the meta work tho. back in a few min

[u r a person 2]

yeah the hyperconfidence is weird but like .... if shoshin flips town then they'll be in trouble ... what do u think of the fact that urap said basically the same thing

@shoshin i don't like nero's push on u

okay not quite the same thing. I'd make em fight for my mislynch

but I said I'd concede the scum reads on me =P

UNVOTE:

We're not in a super rush here. I think I'm taking the rest of the night off of this one

@skitter what would you estimate your accuracy is on sho, and what is your current confidence level?

[u r a person 2]

@Nom - really I mean it now. Tell me why, in your world with the associatives you have created, you are resistant to going Vork for the day?

Regardless of Shos! alignment, how does it not benefit town?

Town!shos, who has claimed Odd-night [something] cop gets a chance to do her thing. She has to be NK'ed to prevent it. She can (a) be steered to a consensus slot worthy of investigation, and (b) either NK'ed to prevent a slot, or (c) saved to prevent a death if the associative flips green.

Scum!shos can be investigated through the associatives, and has to out some form of result that can be confirmed or debunked tomorrow.

Like Im not seeing the urgency for a D1 lynch with this claim. It is not today.

I was going to town case vork before shoshin happened

I'll get you posts and stuff but the gist of it is this:

I believe vorkuta is modeling his play after some of the agent provocateurs of the site. He gets reactions from people great, but he doesn't really know what to do with those reactions when he gets them. It's all based in a general town motivation to create content, and he's got good instincts on what kind of content to create. On my life either late tonight or tomorrow morning I will go through some of his posts where I saw this for you

I also think he has less of a grasp on the game state when he's town. Like, scum!vorkuta is trying to commit suicide with his pushes today. He's picked fights with *takes breath* Nom, teacher, skitter, buj, cinn, and dunn (maybe others, but that's what I can think of off top of my head). What is the scum team where the only two people you could accuse scum!vorkuta of pocketing are me and nero?

[u r a person 2]

@URAP, I dont know if they have been Overtaken By Events, but Im still looking for the Vork/Nom town cases.

ya i hear ya mate. I just gave you the outline on vork

[u r a person 2]

What is the scum team where the only two people you could accuse scum!vorkuta of pocketing are me and nero?

In this world, Vork+Shos + (Buj?)

I dont see the fight with Buj as real.

that would still leave him picking fights with a bunch of loud, strong willed players, most of whom never saw real pressure

I think town vorkuta is much more likely to interact his way into his own lynch like this than scum!vorkuta

I'm really trying to get off here I swear

[u r a person 2]

c) VOTE: flubber

I think this is better than nero. Do you know how to read nero?

[u r a person 2]

urap i think ur scum btw

I'm sorry to hear that =(

[u r a person 2]

I think this is better than nero. Do you know how to read nero?

Yes, I do.

Do you know how to read him?

Not really, no, but just my luck you do! Gimme the nero profiles =P

[u r a person 2]

Can you just stop with the whole nagl thing? it's kind of a bore

[u r a person 2]

It's also kind of nuts to call nero a lurker this game? he's got almost 200 posts

[u r a person 2]

What is town nero, as you understand it?

[u r a person 2]

like, that was part of the question

[u r a person 2]

@shoshin I talked about this somewhere in the mid 40's (pages)

His entire play around your slot was bad. When ED was holding the slot, his read was based upon everyone elses read on ED to the exclusion of a read of his own. Then the vote on you was awful

take a stroll through his or my iso. flubber is a good vote, and I kind of think you're scum reading nero for personality reasons

[u r a person 2]

Buj, you believe that U2 is scum, right?

Buj would also be a good vote

[u r a person 2]

@shoshin I talked about this somewhere in the mid 40's (pages)

His entire play around your slot was bad. When ED was holding the slot, his read was based upon everyone elses read on ED to the exclusion of a read of his own. Then the vote on you was awful

take a stroll through his or my iso. flubber is a good vote, and I kind of think you're scum reading nero for personality reasons

what dodge?

the rest of the post had your answer lol

[u r a person 2]

yo we need a lynch

we're like 45 pages past where I would ideally like d1's to end

come join me on flubber

the argument seems to be that nero is a better lynch than flubber, not that he's town and like, I got this pet theory im working on that makes me not want to touch nero til d2

[u r a person 2]

like nom just stop, shoshin isn't getting lynched today

nero you stop too

everyone get your asses onto flubber

shoshin if you're town you did your job not getting lynched, come lynch flubber

skitter, I know you think I'm scum, but you're wrong and I'm not gonna fight with you over my alignment again like last game. That whole thing we did I think is part of how my reads got so far off track. table me for now and lynch flubber please

teacher I think you're on flubber, but if you're not, please get on flubber

[u r a person 2]

but real talk do we get to hear this pet theory?

real talk, if I were going to explain more, I would have

It's a thing, d2 I can go into it, but not earlier

[u r a person 2]

skitter, I know you think I'm scum, but you're wrong and I'm not gonna fight with you over my alignment again like last game. That whole thing we did I think is part of how my reads got so far off track. table me for now and lynch flubber please

if flubber flips green i'll probably tunnel you

lol, yeah I know you would

[u r a person 2]

I'm not actually lynching around Sho's alignment. That, and slots connected to it will resolve or be easier to read over the next day or two one way or the other or the other or the other

[u r a person 2]

I'm not actually lynching around Sho's alignment. That, and slots connected to it will resolve or be easier to read over the next day or two one way or the other or the other or the other

Than why flubbsoe again?

mate he is scummy af all on his own

[u r a person 2]

Im drunk

the whole drunk posting thing I THINK is nai but if it is AI it's scum-indicative

[u r a person 2]

Wait where is the edit button what the fuck

this one for sure wasn't real

[u r a person 2]

you just asked me why flubber lol

[u r a person 2]

You don’t think I know I’m provoking fate by arguing to extend the day a little more when I’m on the bottom of most readslists and hard defending the consensus wagon?

That’s how this feels. Like the Sho wagon gave up the ghost and went to whatever was largest and being pushed at the time. And that doesn’t feel good.

if that happened, wouldn't that have been nero? That was definitely the most loudly pushed wagon

[u r a person 2]

Im drunk

the whole drunk posting thing I THINK is nai but if it is AI it's scum-indicative

no it isn't

deja vu with this convo

but I thought it would be town-indicative, but my experience suggests otherwise. low sample size, hence think it's nai

[u r a person 2]

I got this pet theory im working on that makes me not want to touch nero til d2

like this kinda makes me worry that urap is trying to set me up for a d2 push.

that paranoia is probably townie from you

[u r a person 2]

Hell no we are not dropping a D1 lynch on salad

Goodness gracious can we please use our time more productively than that

[u r a person 2]

Skitter, I'm not sure why you don't think that I would take a different tact this game. Last game was the exception, not the rule, when it comes to me town casing myself.

The number of scum reads on me is awful. There are 4 votes on me and more slots in the wings with scum reads? I do not think I am playing such a bad game as to be this scum read, and right now I think scum is trying to figure out if I'm a possible lynch. Make no mistake, I am a terrific mislynch for scum to get D1

[u r a person 2]

Like, I think highly enough of myself to believe that I'm within my scum range, but I fucking know I'm in my town range so town needs to smack themselves upside the head and reevaluate

Flub is trying to discredit my scum read on him, but he's scummy af. Look at his handling of shoshin's wagon from before the replacement til his unvote. regardless of shoshin's alignment, it is not a town mindset. Pre shoshin he's all about what other people's reads are on the slot, and never makes a read of his own. post replacement it's based on the mod not modkilling shoshin? He didn't want to have to address shoshin's play

[u r a person 2]

And I have fucking played this game. I have not been lurky or inactive or not solvey or any of the other bullshit being hinted out throughout this thread

I have a shit ton of posts by this point in the game, and if I appear less loud it's probably because a lot of people in this game have strong vocal cords

[u r a person 2]

so like let's go the people with scum reads on me get your votes on

if we're gonna do this let's do this no hiding

[u r a person 2]

Here's what I think about the game:

I think Shoshin resolves soon enough.
I think a bunch of people connected to shoshin who I don't even really want to list together become obvious reads as shoshin resolves.
Vorkuta is obv town
Nom is like 90% town and I won't or can't or don't want to talk about this in full right now.
I think teacher is town.
DP is v likely town
Cinn is v. likely town
skitter is likely town, let's call it 85% I really just think she's town but, you know, wouldn't bet against her continuing to wow people with new additions to her scum play. For real tho she's probably just town which is why 2nd game in a row with the misguided read is rather frustrating.
nero confuses me. I know there are people with good meta reads on him. I am not one of those people, and his iso fucks with my head. Some posts ping me town, some scum. I'm kind of hoping this just resolves, but I don't want it today.
Salad could be scum I guess but my gut says town

scum pool
Dunn
Buj
Flubber

[u r a person 2]

A) i dont like most of my other voting options rn, i tjink the only othet semi-viable person i'd be interested in voting rn is nero
B) i'd feel really bad being wrong u but like .... i dont see town!you here at all
C) and you keep suggesting bad lynches for bad reasons, and i dont like your reads at all really

So like ... this is where i am rn

What bad lynches for what bad reasons?

What are you looking for in town me because skitter you gotta be lookin for the wrong thing

[u r a person 2]

Are you not voting flubber because I'm voting there? Like how are you looking at his iso and saying, "yep, that's town" and then looking at my play and being "nope, not town urap"

it is bewildering to me that this is a thing skitter

[u r a person 2]

I should not be a straight up first pick D1 scum read here that is ridiculous

[u r a person 2]

Okay, well I don't really do misrep as either alignment so where is the disconnect that leads you to believe that I am intentionally misrepping someone

[u r a person 2]

okay I'll be here

[u r a person 2]

okay neat there are obvious misunderstandings there that can be quickly fixed

[u r a person 2]

Prior to shoshin replacing in and prior to the thread exploading, flubber's positioning on ED was based ENTIRELY on other people's reads. Here are the posts from his iso

Spoiler:

Teacher seens town enough to me

What's the case on ED?

Looks like an apathy lynch going off the iso

You know I kinda hate the fact that I feel it's going to be another game where we don't reach a consensus on reads and we end up doing weird stuff as a result.

At least this is the impression that this day 1 gives me so far.

I have no faith in an EvilD lynch right now, it's basically admitting that no one has a case and that as a result it's better to go for the weirdo lurker. Like he could be the most obvious scum in the world or the easiest lynchbait.

This feels bad dude.

Huh

This mirrors my thoughts a lot

I still don't see why ED over me or saladman

I thought we already established that I am bad but honest.

Show me where

And why that doesn't apply to ED also

Then, once shoshin replaced in we get:

Allow me to add to the slime by bettint there'd be mod intervention by now if shoshin wasn't full of crap ie was trust telling

VOTE: shoshin

and that vote sat for a period of 700 posts over the course of which he made a few posts so it wasn't that he didn't have an opportunity to change the vote in that time

that's what I was referring to and I really don't think it's a characterization of what happened.

[u r a person 2]

that's what I was referring to and I really don't think it's a characterization of what happened.

mischaracterization

[u r a person 2]

DP why don't you want a flubber lynch?

[u r a person 2]

I don't remember why you were scum reading vork but I remember thinking that it fit into my town read of him just fine

I can go back and look and we can dig into that again if you want

I'm not even sure if scum is busing flubber hard right now tho mate. I'm living in a world where there is likely (possibly? not sure where i'd put the exact percent) 0-1 scum on flubber

[u r a person 2]

can you show me this town flubber post please. I can't remember if you've pointed it out but I wanna look at it again

[u r a person 2]

Then, basically just page 35:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=79944&start=850

Like flubber/nom is pretty clearly not s/s at the very least, but beyond that flubber feels slightly different than his scum games. Not wildly outside and not enough that I wouldn't hammer him but enough that I feel some pause here.

I don't see what you're town reading in 848. Why is it not just a way of avoiding a conversation about their different conclusions?

And on page 35 he discredits a number of reads, which I think is scum-indicative

There was like one really good question from flubber on that page but I really don't think you've found anything town-indicative here mate

[u r a person 2]

Then, basically just page 35:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=79944&start=850

Like flubber/nom is pretty clearly not s/s at the very least, but beyond that flubber feels slightly different than his scum games. Not wildly outside and not enough that I wouldn't hammer him but enough that I feel some pause here.

I don't see what you're town reading in 848. Why is it not just a way of avoiding a conversation about their different conclusions?

And on page 35 he discredits a number of reads, which I think is scum-indicative

There was like one really good question from flubber on that page but I really don't think you've found anything town-indicative here mate

[u r a person 2]

Urap i dont think anything you brought out in flubber's play on the previous page is scummy

Like even the psuedo-cop thing i dont think comes from scum

Can you help me understand why its more likely to come from town than scum?

[u r a person 2]

I'm not even sure if scum is busing flubber hard right now tho mate. I'm living in a world where there is likely (possibly? not sure where i'd put the exact percent) 0-1 scum on flubber

Like why do u think this? I think there's at least one, if not more, on him rn

because of what reads I have on them and a less-than-back-of-the-napkin kind of guess at the probability of more than one being scum given my reads

it wasn't anything complicated

[u r a person 2]

.... cuz scun doesnt fake-claim cop that way because they're exasperated and then immediately retract it (esp after someone actually bought it!)

oh I thought you were calling the mod would have punished shoshin thing a psuedo-cop check. Why isn't that vote scummy?

I don't see why that's out of an average scum range. like at all. Especially the part in parentheses. like of course scum would retract it there if they weren't planning on actually making the claim

the only question is if scum would make the joke and like, why not?

[u r a person 2]

Like on some level i'm confused that we seem to be playing like two different games ...

It feels very similar to last game from this perspective =/

[u r a person 2]

Idk i dont really have a strong opinion on flub's shoshin vote

For flubber's cop thing - it came from exasperation at being wagoned and how shoshin was being wagoned - i dont think scum get annoyed that a cop claim is getting wagoned really to the point that they lolvlaim cop to express their frustration

none of this makes sense. it doesn't make sense that you don't have an opinion of that vote. it doesn't make sense that you buy his exasperation over the wagon after being on the wagon as he was. How are you reading the game this way I don't understand

[u r a person 2]

or I guess I could just vote urap if those two are partners.

VOTE: urap

Ya this seems likely

[u r a person 2]

what's the count on me now

[u r a person 2]

looks like 4 with at least 3 people off wagon who also scum read me

[u r a person 2]

I think I'm getting lynched here LOL

already gave my reads so

[u r a person 2]

@urap this means that at some point in the last five minutes or so you went north of the null line, and no i don't know think i can articulate why exactly

good timing lol

[u r a person 2]

@DP Why is scum more likely to use that tell (delayed-omgus) over and over than town?

I kinda think tells go through fads for me if that makes sense

[u r a person 2]

buj if you're town please vote flubber

[u r a person 2]

I'm swamped at work today. Will maybe be in this game tonight but I have other obligations as well. Tomorrow at latest

[u r a person 2]

okay im here now

happy cake day dunn!

[u r a person 2]

VOTE: u r a person 2
L-2, I hope to get some kind of claim from you soon because there is a lot of pressure directed your way

VT reads list soon

[u r a person 2]

I think I'm getting lynched here LOL

already gave my reads so

This seems scummy to me because you never claimed a role and are acting like you might be lynched and you seem okay with that. I think as town, even as a VT, you'd expect to have that chance to claim - it would be on your mind, no?

I mean, the smart play is to lynch through a vt claim, usually

so I think actually implying that I'm just not going to claim is a more reasonable way of avoiding a lynch than fake claiming as town

[u r a person 2]

Okay so

Town
Nom because of shoshin fip
Vorkuta I'm still town reading vorkuta for his pushes and spats with basically the entire game. I don't see a scum motivation, I see a lot of reasons why some of his play is just BAD if he's scum tho.
Teacher is very likely town for reasons~
NC is basically lock town because shoshin was nk'd
Skitter and nom I think is tvt. Also, skitter's play d1 does not really imply a shoshin night kill (unless it was done over her objections). I mean, skitter is good, but I just want to town read this. She's working so hard on this game and I think it's a bit more WIM than the scum!skitter I've seen.
Bujaber I'm liking the tone and aggressiveness of his d2 so far. flubber hammer is actually probably town-indicative if NC is town, and I think he is.
Cinnamon is still town


Not town - this is poe as much as anything else. If I've got someone wrong in my town pool, it's probably teacher, Vorkuta, or Skitter in that order.
Dunn - There's basically nothing but a vork tunnel in Dunn's iso
Saladmann - I still gut town this, tbh but someone has to be scum and this might make sense given the town-made clusterfuck of yesterday
DP - DP's evolution on Shoshin's slot yesterday seems pretty awful in retrospect. He basically straddles the fence. I was town reading this slot pretty hard, in large part because of his read on me, but perhaps that was a mistake. DP if you're town I'm sorry LOL, but if you're scum I really hope we roll scum together.

[u r a person 2]

that's about all I've got in me for now

I'm gonna be at like near 0 activity basically through Saturday. It sucks that I'm being pressured, but such is life

[u r a person 2]

I think anyone who today undertakes a meta dive on me will see clearly that lurking out is not my normal scum game or my normal town game, but certainly not my scum game

There seems to be consensus that my reads are terrible. That could be. I don't have time to dig into it again tho