Mini Normal 2081 — My First Game! [Game Over]

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VOTE: skygazer[/]

I wanted to vote for cinnamon as a policy lynch but now you’ve made it so that would be sheeping

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Goddamnit cinnamon

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Well in that case I’m going with it anywya

VOTE: cinnamon

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I hate you all

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Just let me get my votes off without posting in the meantime

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How the hell did you steal that already? Also do they do rings in basketball?

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That’s a huge stretch

I mean, if you end up being right — kudos, but there’s no way I’m buying it this early

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Although, actually, if you are right then I kinda wanna lynch you for it

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Also, I PM’d clarity so she knows, but for the rest of you: I’m V/LA until at least monday

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Because it seems so stretchy to me (okay, I haven’t read skitter’s other games so maybe she has caught scum from the same) that to actually be right seems like she has information that only scum could reasonably have at this point

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Plus it’s a soft bus if it probably doesn’t go anywhere because it’s seen as stretchy by everyone else? Which seems like the perfect time for a soft bus?

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Wanna link a game where you’ve seen it happen before, exilon?

Man, this game is really dead

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How are there no wagons?

VOTE: ViciousLamb

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What’s LIVS?

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How do we jumpstart it? I feel like we jumped out of LIVS too quickly.

Let’s start by getting ViciousLamb to L-2, if you fancy helping out with that

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p sure viciouslamb is going to/is siteflaking, can we wagon someone else?

Yeah sure, I’ll get on sky, think that brings u to L-2

VOTE: sky

Also if sky flips red and I’m right that you calling her out was indicative of you being scum too do I win a record for earliest solve ever or something?

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skitter why did you unvote the only wagon that was building when it was only L-2?

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Also Cinnamon is a townlean for me rn because e seems exactly the same as last game

Luv I take your point about ViciousLamb (and agree about band name) but if you wanna help get the game going why don’t you get on the sky wagon

Also did you choose your name cause you knew everyone would call you luv?

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Also I find Rob’s playstyle really toxic (I read another game where he seemed exactly the same) and I also find it really hard to read, so I’m saying right now that I’m open to policy lynching there if there’s not clear scum by EoD

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I'm too neurotic to lurk as scum :c

Do you mean stressed? How would that make you lurk less as scum?

P sure she means neurotic as a general state, where she’d be worrying too much about how lurking would be perceived and the likelihood of being scumread for it to

actually

do it if she were scum

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Do you not think there’s value in voting to apply pressure to people/for later vca?

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And for the sake of pressure?

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Also, q for the board: is greeting the thread only considered a scumtell in newbie games?

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Yo cinn, if you’re still there can you answer me this one: do you think it was legit an anti-town action to explain my thoughts there, and if so for the same reasons as exil or others?

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And for the sake of pressure?

Admitting her wagon is a pressure wagon defeats the purpose of having it in my opinion.

Yeah that’s fair, it’s why I wanted you to just get on it

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I don’t think it’s a serious wagon unless it’s at L-1

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what is 'the haps'?

We’re lynching your slot as scum p sure

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Only at that stage on p3 she wasn’t pinging sky for lurking? Nicemisrep

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Also maybe don’t edit things into quotes that I never said?

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Re: 265

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On a more serious note though, what do you find scummy about sky skitter?

idk, kinda gut, like i said

i don't like 27; it reads kinda like an rvs vote since it's apparetnly not meant to be taken seriously; i don't know why she feels th need to change her vote there so it feels like busywork kinda, like posting things to be doing things

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Like she literally explained it

Yeh I took issue with the explanation but trying to say that I was reading skitter as scummy because she read sky as scummy for lurking is just wow

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I get the impression that he is new to MS, but throws around buzzwords like he's a ToS player.

lol

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I think I’m still scumreading pisskop at this point with the switch from me to exilon being a result of skitter/cinn both picking up on it being forced

The cinnamon TR feels like it could be an attempt to pocket?

But it’s all also so blatant that I kind of wanna TR for it because I think scum would at least try to have some subtlety, but equally I don’t know your meta at all

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So from no-one moving off I’m gathering that this is being read as a fake claim? I’d like to know why before a hammer drops

UNVOTE:

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Okay, but do you not think doc is a weird claim to make?

Also the immediate claim at L-1 threw me a bit, no one had announced intent then

Like I feel that scum fakeclaiming doc to try and force the real doc to come out wouldn’t make the fake claim until intent was posted

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I find it weird to claim doc as the D1 fake claim. Like, that has the least utility for scum in terms of eliminating a PR on N1, because it’s so purely protective. I think that scum would normally prefer to claim cop/tracker or even JK over doc here, and I think that with any fake claim there’s got to be thought about the CC scenario

And yeah I think I kind of believe it — like, I think he’s been playing really bad as doc, but that adds credence to my belief that it’s real. For instance, I feel a cop would be a much better fit for a claim (trying to lead pushes, but walking close enough to the mislynch line not to be the NK) so why would scum not do that?

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Robb, do you prefer playing as scum or as town?

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So from no-one moving off I’m gathering that this is being read as a fake claim? I’d like to know why before a hammer drops

UNVOTE:

Yeah I don’t buy it either and one of things I’ve come to learn is that role does not equal alignment.

?

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And yeah the timing is just off

If I’m scum there then I’m trying to look as town as possible — that means that I wanna keep the fact I’m doc hidden as long as possible, which means there’s no way I’m claiming before the intent comes

This whole thing reads to me as legit but really badly played doc getting frustrated

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oh hey.

im the doc

gg guys

That really doesn’t read frustrated to you?

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Also why would you intent before half te board had a chance to react to the claim?

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Where’s the line? I think that’s sarcasm coming from frustration of feeling forced to claim his PR halfway through D1

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Exi, think about that though. I think that’s legit but that’s just tonal, I can’t see any reason why he couldn’t be playing a short term game giving off that impression but then still be someone to seriously consider the implications of a fake claim

Also, just entertain this idea for a moment: we’re in a 9p game. That means scum is probably on the wagon. If we do lynch pisskop and he does flip green, where is the scum?

I think it could be luv. Look at his ISO. It’s not good

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Yeah, actually, I think it’s luv and that he’s this comfortable pushing for a lynch on pisskop bc of cover from exi and robb also arguing it’s a fakeclaim

VOTE: luv

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I’ll case this properly later when I’m not on my phone

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luv case:

fluffiest

i did not roll scum :c

that's what scum would say

We got her

fluffposts continue

First time I’ve seen it used in a mafia game

more fluff

Is it just me that’s forgetting there is only 9 players?

Are you an alt by any chance Hitei?

fluff and also mildly diverting attention away from the game

How do we jumpstart it? I feel like we jumped out of LIVS too quickly.

well, by voting? which you're finding every excuse to do through this whole portion of the game

I'm too neurotic to lurk as scum :c

Do you mean stressed? How would that make you lurk less as scum?

this is now reading as an intentional not understanding of what she meant to be able to ask the second question and give the appearance of trying to solve

And for the sake of pressure?

Admitting her wagon is a pressure wagon defeats the purpose of having it in my opinion.

so by forcing me to have this conversation with you, the usefulness of a pressure wagon was largely eroded -- yet you had plenty of chances to jump on before making it incredibly overt which would have meant it could have been useful as a pressure wagon

this is anti-town because it makes it harder to glean information from the wagon

I have some suspicion regarding Menalaque but it’s very weak.

Can you expand on where you get this from?

It seemed like he was pushing me to vote Sky and it rubbed me the wrong way a bit.

I guess my followup question would be why wouldn't you pressure this?

I took a very very quick glance at your meta and it didn't seem like you had any qualms with voting early in another game. I'm just trying to figure out whether this is a playstyle thing for you or if there's something about

this game

in particular that's giving you trouble.

Just felt like it was more noteworthy then something to condemn him for. Some games I’ll have very quick tonal scum reads and others I won’t.

"yeah, I found it kind of scummy but despite the fact that nothing was really happening in the game at that point I decided not to bother putting any pressure on someone I had scumpings off"

also "it seemed like he was pushing me to vote sky" I mean yeah how else could you possibly interpret that, you don't need to say it seemed that way

i'm kinda confused by this convo

fluffiest

i'm kinda confused by this convo

pretty sure it was several happening at once.

It’s more so that I really didn’t get anything out of the last page and a half.

seems weird that you would get nothing from all of that unless you're not actually trying because you don't care about sorting any slots because you're scum?

Where’s Hieti?

Intent

weirdly placed intent as Dannflor has also been pushing you over

I find it weird to claim doc as the D1 fake claim. Like, that has the least utility for scum in terms of eliminating a PR on N1, because it’s so purely protective. I think that scum would normally prefer to claim cop/tracker or even JK over doc here, and I think that with any fake claim there’s got to be thought about the CC scenario

And yeah I think I kind of believe it — like, I think he’s been playing really bad as doc, but that adds credence to my belief that it’s real. For instance, I feel a cop would be a much better fit for a claim (trying to lead pushes, but walking close enough to the mislynch line not to be the NK) so why would scum not do that?

Doctor is normally a pretty safe claim as scum because you can just claim to have protected someone other than the person who died

and people hate lynching doctors.

only there's three people on the wagon who apparently barely gave it a second thought

Where’s the line? I think that’s sarcasm coming from frustration of feeling forced to claim his PR halfway through D1

Do you not think I don’t know that everyone hasn’t reacted? If I had any intention of

hammering soon

, I wouldn’t have mentioned Hitei.

Also why would you intent before half te board had a chance to react to the claim?

What line? What are you on about?

line between sarcasm and frustration

I don't see how mentioning hitei means you weren't considering hammering soon

It actually used to be common practice to hammer without stating intent until not claiming certain roles became a viable strategy. What’s my motivation for putting myself out there and stating intent? Why don’t I just decide to play the too scummy to be scum card and hammer to end discussion?

easy, you hope that a few hours pass without much response then hammer anyway and can then say "bUt GuYs i gAvE iNtEnT" when it comes up tomorrow

whereas if you know that pisskop is town and therefore probably not lying about the doc claim then lolhammering v likely does get you lynched tomorrow

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where it says "fluffiest" it's an autocorrect of "fluff post"

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pisskop talk to me about why skitter is scum?

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I had a look at skitter's meta after the super early sky read and to me this seems much more in line with her town game than her scum game

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It’s funny that you’re interpreting my responses Mena as trying to force you have a conversation with me. You brought up two faulty reasons why I should join a wagon on Sky. You eroded the pressure from the very moment you brought up VCA.

I stated that you seemed like you were pushing me because I felt it was starting to be in bad faith.

You clearly didn’t have an alignment indictive reason for wanting to vote Sky so the insistence on trying to get me to vote for her started to ping me.

Where am I interpreting your responses as you trying to force me to have a conversation with you?

I literally don't understand the bolded part.

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Fact remains that you went from not voting anyone/applying any useful pressure literally anywhere in the game, along with minimal analysis or attempts to make the game state move to being willing to hammer a doc claim.

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oh that's a good point actually, lol

point still stands about the fact it would have been better for town if you'd jumped on and not debated the merits of voting/not voting sky

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Would you still scum read me Mena if I claimed cop?

I think this is a weird post to make?

but yeah probs, as I'm more persuaded by the pk doc claim and if you were to do it after having said this then I'd be doubly sceptical?

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Did you not read any of what I said regarding Exilon to PK?

I mean I did but I don't see how it's relevant? But tbf that could just be me being dumb

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Would you still scum read me Mena if I claimed cop?

I think this is a weird post to make?

but yeah probs, as I'm more persuaded by the pk doc claim and if you were to do it after having said this then I'd be doubly sceptical?

So since you would be willing to lynch play over role, what’s preventing you from doing the same with PK?

the.... fact that I think PK is legit? and that I think the set up would be a bit broken with doc & cop, which would make a claim from you coming later much much weaker

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If you claimed PR right now I would scumread you still because you’re not either at L-1 or intent and it would therefore be a dumbass move if you were town

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re:487

Unless you’d crumbed it really well I think I’d struggle to believe a pr claim from you now

Also it’s less that I’m townreading pisskop, more that my lynchpool is both of you and I think you’re

scummier

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If you are town then maybe go away and think about why that’s happening as a whole

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menalque, does scum!you believe in bussing?

Idk, I haven’t rolled scum yet and the last time I played mafia was like 3-4 years ago so I can’t remeber if I rolled scum there either.

I think I would be open to bussing as scum on occasion because if I didn’t it would limit my range?

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Yeah I realised there was a risk of that

It’s just that I genuinely believe the doc claim so that made me look elsewhere

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Why are you TRing luv?

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clarity, could we get an up-to-date VC pls?

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Why are you TRing luv?

a) he's visibly trying to sort people; i can see what he's thinking and how his thought process has evolved; he's not just declaring reads and sticking with them for long-ish periods of time
b) not townreading me/trying to buddy me/trying to appease me
c) his line of questining to you regarding the cop/doc/neighborizer thing
d) probably some other stuff that i'm not thinking of right at this moment that i'll remember in like 5 min

Regarding (a) — where? I just looked at his ISO again. As far as I can see it’s non-commital, non-commital, non-commital, gets pushed so TRs exi and scumleans me

Sticks to those, then rapidly gets to the point of being willing to hammer pk

Then sticks more to the TR on exi and upgrades me from a scumlean to a scumread

I don’t see his thought process evolving, and I don’t see him not declaring reads and sticking to them for long periods of time

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Clarity, have you moved to China or are you on holiday?

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Cinn, what do you think of luv?

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Dann, what do you think of skitter?

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Sorry what is gated/ungated?

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@menalque: an example would be his whole exchange with u regarding the cop/doc/neighborizer thing - he thinks he found an inconsistency in your approach to the game and is using his quetions to try to understand your thought process

yeah, I agree that was townie, the problem I have with it is that it only emerged at all after someone was actually pushing and I think that doing something like that is defo within the capabilities of scum!luv

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@dann re:539 why don’t you like it?

Because you’re townreading me or for another reason?

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I thought you probably could but I hadn’t bothered figuring it out

Thanks

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Except no one was pushing me before I expressed intent? Dan was the closest thing.

I meant I think the towniest thing you’ve done was when you were questioning me about if I’d still scumreads you

And that was after I started pushing you

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tin-foil hat theory is that scum were informed that there was a doctor and he's expecting someone to cc

Can you not think of any other theories?

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Re:550 I obvs don’t know him that well but I saw a bit of him when I was reading some of your meta and he seems like a competent enough player that doing something townie after people starting to scum him is defo something he could do

You don’t think it matters that he basically wasn’t doing anything before?

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Where is my thought process less cohesive?

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@menalque: an example would be his whole exchange with u regarding the cop/doc/neighborizer thing - he thinks he found an inconsistency in your approach to the game and is using his quetions to try to understand your thought process

yeah, I agree that was townie, the problem I have with it is that it only emerged at all after someone was actually pushing and I think that doing something like that is defo within the capabilities of scum!luv

Here again, I don't see it. The person pushing LUV here was you I believe? Wouldn't that make it equally as townie or more townie for him to be trying to figure you out?

Yeah, it was. Here’s my logic: luv does very little all game, avoids getting on wagons, doesn’t really offer anything in the way of analysis, complains about the gamestate then doesn’t really try to do anything to improve it himself

Then he jumps on pk v quickly, before rounding off there to jump on me after I call him out

It’s only after this that a couple of votes head his way, and only after that that he starts doing anything meaningfully townie (trying to figure out my thought process around pk and the doc claim)

I don’t see how him only towning it up at all after pressure is town indicative when everything before is scum indicative

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Yeah, 560 is weird, I’m not denying that or explain it rn. But do me a favour, consider two things. (1) why does scum!me make that opaot when I’m obviously aware enough to know that it looks strange at best and (2) if you assume town!me hat does it mean — not expecting you to post the answer to (2) here but think about it

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Explaining*
Make that post*

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Also why are you reading robb as townier than dann?

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No, I saw that, I mean think about it beyond that, not in terms of the overall gamestate more in relation to me as a player from what you know of me

I think skitter is probably town here

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Menalque do you see fluffposting as scummy? To me it seems closer to NAI sort of in the same vein as lurking

Depends. If it’s combined with attempts to push the game on/scumhunt/sort/solve then no

When it’s all there is then yeah

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If we’re doing readslists:

Cinn, skitter, dann
Pk, robb
Exi, hit
Luv

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Because you’re townreading luv and scumreading me which is consistent, same thing Cinn is doing

Also, I had a look at some of your other games and your meta seems to be pocketing people as scum which I don’t think you’ve been trying to do here at all

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Plus I feel like your ISO shows attempts to sort/solve and I particularly liked the “the doc” thing

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I’m townreading dann for the same thing but in reverse: he’s scumreading luv and not me, and I think that based on the way we’re playing you can’t see both of us as town atm

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Jesus, chen

I just woke up a few minutes ago, I’ll respond after breakfast


Also, exi I saw your q’s too, I’ll get to them as well

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Before anything tho: pls stop calling me menelaus

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Wait, cinn, talk me through what’s weird about 586? I’m aware that my play here can be seen as scummy, and I think it would be abnormal to not see it as such — unless you’re reading the same person as scum that I consider to be scum, in which case I think my play makes sense from a town perspective

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I mean, you saw 450 right? Is that not pushing my own reads?

Also, your logic is that it’s somehow more town to completely refuse to acknowledge that anything I’ve done can be seen as scummy?

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Menelaus engaging people scumreading you is one thing but outright TRing them FOR scumreading you is not townie

Think I've already responded to this via Cinn, but to be clear: it's not bc they're scumreading me. It's because they're townreading luv and scumreading me. I don't think doing both at the same time makes that much sense rn. Either I'm right and luv has a scummy ISO and we should be voting there OR I'm scum trying to derail the wagon on pisskop

Menelaus has been trying to appease the people scum reading him instead of actually finding scum

Well yeah, because I think I've found scum so now I wanna get the people who I think are town off me and onto him. Persuading them to get off me means they're at least nulling me which means they're more likely to listen to my case on luv

I think menelaus spews his teammates if scum

idk what this means?

Exilon your play feels like idk Town taly for some reason

Menelaus dismissing you as scum without much reason in his readlist the same way he treated my slot and your methodical interactions make you town

I'm gonna respond to exi now so you'll see why he's down there

Menelaus if you are scum your scumgame is very good

It's unfortunate that pisskop's claim is very likely and that paints you as the more likely scum over luv

so as I'm town does that mean my towngame is pretty bad lol?

how does pisskop's claim being likely make me more likely scum vs luv? surely the contrary

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On the other hand, I feel undecided on Menalque.

I really like his interactions and I think they're productive. I appreciate them. I feel there's important associatives here.

His case on LUV has some merit but I think he's stretching a bit on things that aren't really ai. They *could* be done by scum so I see where he can come from, but at the same time, I really dislike the timing of it in context of Pisskop. I don't feel like it comes out of nowhere though (512 is believable enough for me), and I think it'll be easier to sort later.

Why are you TRing luv?

a) he's visibly trying to sort people; i can see what he's thinking and how his thought process has evolved; he's not just declaring reads and sticking with them for long-ish periods of time
b) not townreading me/trying to buddy me/trying to appease me
c) his line of questining to you regarding the cop/doc/neighborizer thing
d) probably some other stuff that i'm not thinking of right at this moment that i'll remember in like 5 min

Regarding (a) — where? I just looked at his ISO again. As far as I can see it’s non-commital, non-commital, non-commital, gets pushed so TRs exi and scumleans me

Sticks to those, then rapidly gets to the point of being willing to hammer pk

Then sticks more to the TR on exi and upgrades me from a scumlean to a scumread

I don’t see his thought process evolving, and I don’t see him not declaring reads and sticking to them for long periods of time

Menalque do you feel this is a good summary on your feelings regarding LUV?
Could you kindly point out to me how the upgrade from scumlean to scumread is done, and how it is scummy?



Also I want to touch on this rq

If we’re doing readslists:

Cinn, skitter, dann
Pk, robb
Exi, hit
Luv

I notice my position here, would you care to elaborate on it?
Also how is PK placed there? If you believe his claim, he should be at the very top of town. Why isn't he?

why do you dislike the timing re:pisskop? that was the whole impetus for why I started finding luv scummy, with the intent prompting me to go back and read his ISO

yeah, that's a good summary of my feelings re: luv

I'm gonna respond to the other q about how he goes from scumlean to scumread in another post because I think I'm gonna need to quote him

I'm gonna handle the PK positioning first. He's there because I can still see the possibility of it being a fakeclaim and someone counter claiming him before EoD. If that doesn't happen then PK goes to the top of the list. But I still find his play scummy prior to the claim, moreso than Dann, skitter, or Cinn (good point about the "emotionally charged" thing, but I think I scumread Cinn too easily based on my last game with him and I still think he's been v consistent with his play there so it's not enough to shake me off my TR)

the reason you're where you are is PoE. like I've said, I'm TRing skitter, Cinn, dann; I also think Robb comes more from town than scum, but I find it hard to read him so that's why he's not at the top; pisskop is the same tier as explained above; there need to be two scum in the game. as I don't think it's any of the others, it's gotta be you or hit/chen, so you go near the bottom with luv

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[...]

I have some suspicion regarding Menalaque but it’s very weak.

[...]

So v weak suspicion here.

[...]

It seemed like he was pushing me to vote Sky and it rubbed me the wrong way a bit.

Okay, fair enough.

[...]

I guess my followup question would be why wouldn't you pressure this?

I took a very very quick glance at your meta and it didn't seem like you had any qualms with voting early in another game. I'm just trying to figure out whether this is a playstyle thing for you or if there's something about

this game

in particular that's giving you trouble.

Just felt like it was more noteworthy then something to condemn him for. Some games I’ll have very quick tonal scum reads and others I won’t.

NB: luv still isn't voting for anyone at this point, and has been complaining about the gamestate being stagnant. One would think that he would vote me here for pressure. As dann mentions, luv doesn't seem to have any issues voting early in at least one other game. So he's able to throw a little bit of shade on me here but not act.

===

time hop, I engage for a bit over the pisskop claim, come round to the idea that luv is scummier after I check his ISO after his intent

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Yeah, actually, I think it’s luv and that he’s this comfortable pushing for a lynch on pisskop bc of cover from exi and robb also arguing it’s a fakeclaim

VOTE: luv

VOTE: Menalque

rather than engage with me about this he just countervotes me

I think it's scummy that after some townie behaviour in questioning why the push on PK was still going just as hard despite the doctor claim and without anyone even discussing the claim, a vote for him was enough to push me from QuEsTiOnS earlier to a hard scumread that's still going

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I think chen is town, I don’t think scum flip flops like this on my slot so much

I’m still not seeing scum!cinn tho

So as I still haven’t been talked out of my scumread on luv I think that it’s either exi or robb

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I think this is probably a shitton of TvT that scum is happily sitting back and watching unfold because it leads to a mislynch and weakens whoever pushes that mislynch for D2

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Also I think cinn is consistent here with the last game we played where I briefly scumread him and he started scumreading me for it

Like I think he just reads people as scum when they push him

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Are these reasons the same ones why you believe the pisskop claim or different ones?

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Cinn overreacting to people scrumming him is literally his meta

Okay based on one game, but I think he’s easy to missort as scum

And the way he’s thinking seems identical to that last game

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in a world where you aren't mafia, you wouldn't be spewing this shit to survive

How can you believe this guy is town when he's more concerned with looking good than actually gamesolving?

because i've already "solved" that ur scum

and now i need to outcharisma you to get the lynch?

I’m not voting you or cinn today

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I think chen is town, I don’t think scum flip flops like this on my slot so much

@cinn

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His claim is really scummy

His reads feel off

His tone and motivation don't read townie

But I'm pretty sure his claim is legit and this is something we'll get into later

All I have to do is, you know, not SAY that his claim is likely legit and just wagon him

This also makes sense for town!chenn
@cinn

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Not sure what you mean by spew myself town? Like post a lot in a town way?

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Well I’m about to go out to karaoke but I’ll see what I can do

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Not that it's all that alignment indicative, but it's just not town play.

Explain this statement to me cinn

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I haven’t really read the last ~3 pages

Cinnamon, a little while ago you were saying you thought there might be scum between chen and exi

Why only one between two again?

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also, V/LA again please Clarity

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Chenn is really spammy. has he been like this all game? this doesnt feel like a good chen

V v much so

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I think you’re all way off on Cinn

And I think at least one person pushing this is scum probably

So exi or chen

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why do you dislike the timing re:pisskop? that was the whole impetus for why I started finding luv scummy, with the intent prompting me to go back and read his ISO

To be clear: you SRed luv here because of the intent coupled with a noncontentful postings?

No I SR him because I thought his ISO was full of nothing/excuses for doing nothing — the intent played a small part of that SR but was mostly just the reason why I went back and looked at his ISO specifically

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That’s not replacing out or threatening to tho?

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I kinda think the extent to which chenn is driving the game but hopping around all over the place could be scum actually because it’s making everything really fucking confusing from where I’m sitting

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Not enough to push me off my luv read yet but I’m really not liking it

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Are we just gonna totally ignore that luv has still basically done nothing this game

Just look at his ISO

Those of you who have played with him before: is he normally this much of a zero presence D1? If not, why not?because he’s scum letting town go at each other hoping that the mislynch comes through under deadline pressure

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@cinn I think you should get on board because we’re lynching someone today and if it’s not you it needs to be luv

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Also chenn didn’t I see you say something about being open to luv as possible scum earlier

If so why not vote there

Cause I’m not sure you’re getting the cinn lynch today

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Gamma’s ISO is p bad too

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ordered - {chenn exilon skitter dann}
{gamma luv}
{menalque pisskop cinnamon}

This is what I was thinking of I think

Are you willing to compromise onto luv to get a lynch through?

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Actually it would be really helpful if people could post their lynchpools for today

As I’m gonna be absent more or less from tomorrow morning to sunday and I cbf to infer lynch pools

Mine is:

Luv; gamma/exi

In that order of preference

Clarity, you saw that I need to go back on V/LA right?

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Also if the lynch somehow flips back to me don’t hammer before letting me claim

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When doc is gated how does it normally work? Pls give some examples of different ways it can be done

I wanna know that before I decide if I believe the chenn claim

I’m leaning towards no

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Also I got back home at 7am this morning and slept half the day which is why I haven’t had time to case luv again as someone asked me to (I think chenn but maybe it was exi)

If we get the deadline freeze I’ll try to do it

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I still want luv for today but I’d be maybe willing to compromise onto chenn depending on what te answer is to my question about how gating normally works, and also just after I’ve milled it over a bit

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Is it likely that a doc would be gated in two different ways or just one?

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Pls more than one person respond

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Nrg?

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Exi dann chenn luv pls also answer

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The fact that you're an experienced player and the reason you want me lynched is basically OMGUS is just wow

I think you want my lynch because you know I'm on you and I'm gonna keep pushing it until it happens

also did you even read my posts after my flip regarding PK's claim? bc if you did then you're either being dense or deliberately ignoring stuff

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skitt would you compromise and go luv if we don't get a deadline freeze?

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I'm open to chenn but wanna hear from dan/exi on the gated thing before I decide

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If you are town then maybe go away and think about why that’s happening as a whole

tin-foil hat theory is that scum were informed that there was a doctor and he's expecting someone to cc

Can you not think of any other theories?

I was talking about this not about the stuff to do with frustrated tone or whatever

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I find it weird to claim doc as the D1 fake claim. Like, that has the least utility for scum in terms of eliminating a PR on N1, because it’s so purely protective. I think that scum would normally prefer to claim cop/tracker or even JK over doc here, and I think that with any fake claim there’s got to be thought about the CC scenario

And yeah I think I kind of believe it — like, I think he’s been playing really bad as doc, but that adds credence to my belief that it’s real. For instance, I feel a cop would be a much better fit for a claim (trying to lead pushes, but walking close enough to the mislynch line not to be the NK) so why would scum not do that?

The fact that it’s protective is exactly why PK wouldn’t mind claiming it or jokingly claim it here in my opinion and run with it. Protective roles are usually town aligned because scum naturally don’t have a need to be protected. PK’s much more experienced than I am which means he knows how often scum can get away with claiming or fake claiming roles that are often in towns hands in order to be cleared by faulty setup speculation.

As for eliminating a PR, that’s not why scum fake claim unless it wins them the game right then and there. Scum fake claim because they have more incentive to not get lynched.

And as for the timing, I’ve pointed out I have a hard time believing PK felt he needed to claim there. You didn’t comment on that at all.

And yeah the timing is just off

If I’m scum there then I’m trying to look as town as possible — that means that I wanna keep the fact I’m doc hidden as long as possible, which means there’s no way I’m claiming before the intent comes

This whole thing reads to me as legit but really badly played doc getting frustrated

You agree on the timing but then

you try to conflate what would you do as scum as the standard to justify why the claim is real

. That’s not an argument at all.

—

Now I could ignore all of the above but when you not only start but insist on pushing on me for things that are very idiotic like fluff posting and stating intent on someone you were scum reading, I struggle with letting go.

the fact that you're dismissing the fact that scum should be (and are therefore likely to be) not only considering the benefits of surviving from a fakeclaim but also should it not work what has the best odds of revealing a real PR for their scumbuddy is scummy

obviously I'm going to use what I would do as scum as a basis to analyse play? like I'm always going to playing optimally to try and win, I think it's a reasonable assumption to make that others are playing to their wincon, therefore if it makes sense to me as something that I would view as optimal that helps me read and vice versa

I was pushing on you for fluff posting because I think you were being lurky, not contributing anything but trying to maintain an appearance of activity
which I think is scummy

either be active and contribute or lurk out totally and it's NAI but that specific combo is scummy

and for the millionth time it wasn't the intent it was the timing of the intent

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chenn is claiming macho cop

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and it's looking like the lynch for today is probably between (me, luv) or (chenn, skitter)

unless we get a deadline extension approved and there are any other developments

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Those are the other two who probably have enough people willing to compromise onto them and it’s also head-to-head à la luv vs me

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exi/dann can you pls answer my question about the gated doctor thing? ie if we assume there is a doc and that said doc is gated then do you think it's probable that the doc would be gated in only one way or more than one?

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Clarity could we get another vote count pls?

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I mean I think he's already great for associatives.

He helps sort Pisskop, Cinn, me (from others PoV), and even LUV
Who does LUV flip help solve?

Not to mention, personally, I find LUV to be slightly more likely to be town than Menalque (I know you didn't mention this, but it's relevant to me).
But I'll try to comb their ISOs before end of day, see if I change my mind on it. But it's unlikely.

I don't see how the luv flip doesn't help solve chenn/pk/me/you?

Can you talk me through what makes me more likely scum from your perspective?

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also, putting this out there: I feel like the difficulty I've had in getting this wagon to go anywhere on luv indicates that he's scum too

as his scumbuddy hasn't wanted to get on and has been trying to create an alt wagon elsewhere - not sure exactly where but probs on me/cinn

which is why I still like chenn or exi for partner

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I 100% don’t have time to case luv, I’m out for dinner tonight and moving country tomorrow

I don’t think his recent behaviour is very AI after more pressure built on him. I think the risk of being the lynch is enough motivation from being more townie recently

I won’t be posting more tonight

Don’t hammer without letting me claim if it goes that way. If anyone does lynch them first, followed by luv

After that my order for lynch preference goes chenn, dann, exi, gammaslot

Never lynch cinn or skitter

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Since I have intent anyway, I’m claiming town doctor enabler

This is why (1) I beloved the doctor claim (because my role means there has to be a doctor in the game and why (2) I was asking about whether it would be likely that there were 2 gates, because if not then I don’t believe chenn which I don’t think I do because 2 gates does solemn weird

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If you lynch me anyway which is a terrible play then here’s my final readlsist

Town — definitely cinn and skitter and pisskop — town in that order

Maybe mechanically scum — gammaslot, but not high on my lynch lair

Lynch list: (1) dann — I thought his move onto me was totally inorganic and unconvincing. Felt like scum trying to get onto the wagon (2) chenn — don’t think the doc is gated twice from what people have said (3) luv I still think is scummy as hell I just think this has pushed him past (4) exi who I think is playing bad by going me over luv but I’m poeing him to the worst of the four for a lynch

Whatever you do lynch between (dann, chenn, luv) tomorrow

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Not gonna self hammer in case whichever town inside of my wagon is smart enough to get off

Oh and

VOTE: dannflor

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Chenn is mechscum indicate from the replace in
Sifting was a good play but he’s still hella scum

Loon how much he’s messed with the game state

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Made it all confusing

Anywya night

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I am never voting skitter today

I get on a plane in 2 hours and after that I won’t be around until EoD

So the next vote I make will be staying there probably, unless I change it before I board

I’m willing to vote luv or chenn at this point. Where’s the appetite? If you want skitter you’re doing it without me

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My faith in the entire system has been undermined.

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VOTE: luv

Good luck god speed

Plane will be taking off imminently and I’ll no longer be available

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Goddamn I’m good

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You can all apologise now for ever having doubted me

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I’m fully expecting a scummy nomination for my performance here

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Also VOTE: creature

I have solved this completely

Gg all let’s do it again sometime

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Nah, creature is mech!scum we need to lynch him today

Lynch chenn tomorrow if I’m wrong

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Also bc I’m probs dead tonight I just wanna throw it out there that dann is conftown for getting luv back on track late in the game, and skitt + cinn should never ever be lynched before lylo

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Mech that I think he’s most likely as the a lot has replaced so many times

And the fact that night got frozen for the teplace makes me think e has a night action

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As the slot*

Has replaced*

He has*

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Skitt I already RC’d how could I have a mechanical guilty

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I think it’s a moot point between cinn & exi bc they’re probably both town as scum is overwhelmingly likely between creature and chenn

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Is it standard to prod during the night tho?

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So vote creature w/ me and if I’m wrong then lynch chenn tomorrow?

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Okay that’s fair

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Creature can you pls post so we can lynch you

Thx

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I never fleshed it out bc I was on V/LA gimme a break

Still caught scum my first non-newbie game

Can one of you say something glowing about my performance here so I can put it in my sig? “Menalque is the best/most promising new player that I’ve seen on the site” or words to similar effect

Or you can wait until after we lynch creature and I’m 2/2 on scum this game

Either way is fine honestly

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(But yeah dann was really good too, we can share credit when I’m done riding this high)

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Exi can you talk me through why you don’t like creature for scum and why you want cinn over chenn?

Also yup that’s 100% going in the sig and also ty skitt for the warning because I was halfway to doing it when I saw your post

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What about creature dann?

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Exi I’d really like you to do that readthrough so that you can come to the conclusion that creature is scum and we can lynch him and win

Bc I really wanna have that thing about getting mafia in the cojones in my sig sooner rather than later

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Plus whatever skitt is gonna say

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I made a white lie, I'm not Macho.

I'm Town Ascetic Jailkeeper, I jailkept Exilon and have an inno.

I think the last scum is likely Creature. Don't underestimate him as a free read either.

LOOOOOOOOOOL I take it all back creature soz

I mean is there any world that exists where we’re not lynching this?

VOTE: chenn

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There are four of you online

Pls remember to play towards your WC

Which in this case means putting 4 more votes on chenn

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Sorry 3 I forgot skitt was already on him

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Oh shit yeah

4 then

Skitt what’s the point in lynching cinn today?

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D2 lynch chenn N2 I die 5p left

D3 lynch creature N3 dann dies 3p left

D4 lynch cinn prob

So there’s plenty of time to lynch cinn, why not go with one of the scummier slots?

Or are you really SRing cinn? If so why?

Sorry if you already cased him, I’m being lazy so if there is a case and I’ve forgotten tell me and I’ll go look

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I don’t understand how chenn “gives innocents” as JK

Also what is ascetic modifier

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But then he could just no kill one night and claim that he’d jailed someone? Esp if it’s going into lylo and he’s claiming innos before then

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Oh so if there was a cop they conveniently wouldn’t get a result on him in the same way as if he was a mafia role blocker who’d roleblocked them

C o n v e n i e n t

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Creature before Cinn I think

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That was in response to luv

I want the order to go:

Creature, cinn, exi, skitt, dann

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I don’t think it’s clear that it would have been ok her or luv, I think it’s more likely she votes chenn or if not then I think scum!skitt votes me instead of bussing

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Dann what do you think of the order I proposed?

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Been on*

Also I haven’t ISOd her but I’ve just thought she seemed incredibly towny all game but I never felt she was trying to pocket anyone really

Which is her meta according to at least 1 PT thread from a scumgame and her answer to teacher’s question set in one of her town games

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Skitt what do you think of the claim order I proposed?

Also @cinn dann is suggesting massclaim and I think he’s p much conf!town

Skitt was the one who brought it up which makes me think they’re both thinking along the same lines

As dann is town, the fact that skitt is thinking the same way only strengthens my TR

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Damn it cinn we should confirm the order before claims

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I don’t think you’re the scummiest here for sure and I’m not sure anyone does so you shouldn’t be claiming first

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Does that mean you’re good with creature, exi, skitt then dann?

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Why is exi conftown? You’re more conftown than him imo

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Why? I don’t read the accidental hammer as necessarily town? The wagon was probs going anyway so scum!exi could have lol’d it for the towncred

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Probably tho, so I think it does make sense exi after skitt

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Chennis has an inno on exilon

You don’t think chenn is just scum?

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if town!chen doesn’t scum just no kill tonight bc then

D3 we lynch the false positive (6p)

N3 kill (5p)

D4 mislynch chenn (4p)

N4 kill (3p)

Oh wait so it’s the same as if we lynch wrong twice? D5 is 3p lylo? Or we get an extra day?

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Also I now understand why exi is conftown

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Exi why are you so determined to scum read me

I’m thinking we just don’t click man

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I mean I know you’re not actually scumming me

I just don’t get why you find my play so scummy

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You need to claim

Why?

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Ffs that didn’t work

Because we need you to claim before skitt does

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Ohhhhhhhh

Man, now I feel even dumber haha

Also v sadly that video is blocked in the UK

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I'm vanilla town

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure you are

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I agree with plan

I’m just waiting to vote cause I wanna hammer

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Hurry up and put him on L-1 someone I wanna go to sleep

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clarity, you have chenn twice and exi no times in the last VC

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Pls cinn

I wanna have a perfect newbie game

And I think creature is prob scum

And this way I can say I hammered scum in my first newbie game

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Also it’s definitely that notvoting!chenn is just exi