Mini 617 - Scottish Mafia, Game Over
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dcorbe Goon
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dcorbe Goon
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dcorbe Goon
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dcorbe Goon
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I don't know why you felt the need to warn me at all. We're still pretty much well entrenched into the random voting phase.q21 wrote:I did warn you, dcorbe.
Wow, OMGUS much?q21 wrote: And kuribo, in defence of my name... bite me.
FoS: q21for expecting anyone to take anything seriously at this point in the game.-
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dcorbe Goon
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He "warned me" about the dangers of voting for the mod, then when she posted in response to my vote, he "I told you so'd" me and OMGUSed kuribo in the same breath.Cephrir wrote:
Where did you get the idea he was being serious? O.odcorbe wrote:Wow, OMGUS much?
FoS: q21 for expecting anyone to take anything seriously at this point in the game.-
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dcorbe
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dcorbe Goon
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The votes right now are pretty much random, but this this sounds like you're breadcrumming about your involvement with others.Erratus Apathos wrote: Holy bejesus, there's two people without an avatar? If I was the third guy on your team I'd be really pissed at the both of you for giving away yourselves this early.
Unvote Vote: Erratus Apathos-
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dcorbe Goon
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massive wrote:I'm not sure I get how Erratus's post could be construed as "breadcrumming" (sic) ... mind explaining that one?
I'm just trying to get a pressure wagon going on someone so we can do as you suggested below, rather than simply saying "we should move past the random voting stage now" and doing nothing about it. You've basically just ensured that no wagon will form.
And I also think we can probably move past the "random voting" since we're on page three.FoS: Massivefor being anti-scumhunting-
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dcorbe Goon
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EBWOP because my quote tags came out messed up
I'm just trying to get a pressure wagon going on someone so we can do as you suggested below, rather than simply saying "we should move past the random voting stage now" and doing nothing about it. You've basically just ensured that no wagon will form.massive wrote:I'm not sure I get how Erratus's post could be construed as "breadcrumming" (sic) ... mind explaining that one?
massive wrote:And I also think we can probably move past the "random voting" since we're on page three.FoS: Massivefor being anti-scumhunting-
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dcorbe Goon
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Hi guys!! That's what I meant by breadcrumming! THANKS!kuribo wrote:
How do you know how many players is on a team?Erratus Apathos wrote: Holy bejesus, there's two people without an avatar? If I was the third guy on your team I'd be really pissed at the both of you for giving away yourselves this early.
What's wrong with taking anything seriously? You can take something seriously and still have fun with it. I'd be concerned about anyone who is able to coast through a game without making a serious attempt at scum hunting. It's in the town's best interests to take a few things seriously and it's in the scum's best interests not to.Cephrir wrote: FoWhatIsWrongWithYou: dcorbe because I think it's pretty obvious that EA is not breadcrumbing, and exiting the random voting stage is not anti-scumhunting. Your posts are really weird and you take everything seriously, what's with that?
QFT and to state the obvious that you guys need to stop jumping on people for early votes. Most early D1 wagons fall apart anyways. It's time to start trying to turn up the pressure a bit here.kuribo wrote:And you've just removed all pressure by stating that it's only for pressure.-
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dcorbe Goon
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dcorbe Goon
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You were given a reason. So now you're going to sit there and OMGUS me because you don't like the reasoning?Erratus Apathos wrote:
What part of "Give me a reason" do you not understand?dcorbe wrote:Erratus Apathos wrote:Give me a reason why I shouldn't assume three scum in a format where there's almost always three scum.kuribo wrote: and even such, "almost always" doesn't give you cause to assume three scum unless you know it to be a fact
Let me try this again...kuribo wrote: and even such, "almost always" doesn't give you cause to assume three scum unless you know it to be a fact
You CAN'T ASSUME that every mini is going to be set up the same way, because they're not. How many minis have you completed since february that you have SO much more experience than the rest of us? 3? maybe 4?Erratus Apathos wrote:
Are you even reading what I've said about that post or are you just being opportunistic? It wasn't a "slip-up", it was a completely intentional assumption based on the bloody format standard. Jesus, it's like I'm the only one here with any experience at all playing mini-normals.massive wrote:Well at least you didn't call me out for saying we were on Page 3 when we were still on Page 2. But it was a nice attempt. I'm much more interested in your own three-related slip-up though.
vote Erratus-
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dcorbe Goon
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dcorbe Goon
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dcorbe Goon
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Like I said bro, I don't understand why you felt the need to warn me. If it was a random comment then fine, I can accept that, but why aren't you going after anyone else wagoning him for the same reason that I am?q21 wrote:No just design, but believe what you will.
Also, I got the impression that it was not, or at least not just, the random votes you thought I was getting serious about.-
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dcorbe Goon
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[quote="q21"] Mostly because you were the first to get on that wagon for a reason I don't particularly think is worth of the size the wagon has reached.[/q21]
I personally don't have a problem pushing wagons up to L-3 or L-2. It's called pressure voting, but the thing about it is if you call it "pressure voting" you're telegraphing your intentions and it really isn't pressure any more after that. This early in the game weak justification for votes is not a scum tell because it really only serves to push us past the random stage
When people hit L-2 they tend to spill a lot of scum tells, and most early D1 wagons fall apart anyways.
Picking apart early wagons under the guise of "that's not a good reason to vote for someone" is anti-town because you've basically just ensured that this wagon will fall apart. Your anti-scum-hunting stance is ultimately going to hurt the town.
Unvote
Vote: q21-
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dcorbe Goon
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I don't see too many bandwagons falling apart because people pick them apart. I see them fall apart after the town has sufficiently pulled enough information out of them to consider concentrating on other targets for wagons. Even if they are pulled apart by someone else it's usually after a good amount of WIOFMy logic has been tossed into it.q21 wrote:Um... OMGUS much?
First you say that most early day one wagons fall apart, which is perfectly true... then you vote for me for actions which could lead to an early day one wagon falling apart. Why do you think that early D1 lbandwagons fall apart?
If people didn't pick apart the early wagons based on "that's not a good reason to vote for someone" then those early wagons would end up being the day one lynches.
You've ensured that this wagon is going to fall apart well before we've gotten anything useful out of it at all. Thank you.
And as far as OMGUS is concerned, I voted for you with some reasonable justification. Look up the definition of OMGUS:
I'll quote that again and highlight the interesting part of thatOMGUS: Oh My God! You Suck!. Usually used in the context of an 'OMGUS vote' - i.e. a vote for someone purely on the basis that they are voting for you.
That implies a BASELESS vote, and I provided some justification for my vote.OMGUS: Oh My God! You Suck!. Usually used in the context of an 'OMGUS vote' - i.e. a vote for someonepurely on the basis that they are voting for you.
You're playing silly little word association games with me and IDON'Tlike it
Confirm Vote: q21-
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dcorbe Goon
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No sir! YOU ensured that the wagon would fall apart when I had to telegraph my intentions to answer your idiotic and WIOFMy vote justification on me!q21 wrote: No, by unvoting him EA you are in fact the one who ensured that the EA wagon would fall apart, I just said I didn't like it. I don't see how my posting could stop you getting info out of EA.-
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dcorbe Goon
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dcorbe Goon
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dcorbe Goon
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Nobody is trying to lynch him. We're wagoning him to try and get some useful tells out of him. It's a common tactic. At L-2 he's in no danger of getting lynched any time soon and most early D1 wagons fall apart anyways.kuribo wrote:
You're misunderstanding me. I've often gone on record to say that towns are far too timid--- but this doesn't necessarily mean that I'd be comfortable with his lynch right this moment.Lowell wrote:
I've seen more than a few games get stalled in inanities because people say "oh, it's too soon to...". I don't think a relatively quick pace is a bad thing, as it makes it easier to retain original members and keep everyone engaged.kuribo wrote:
Probably because I don't feel three pages of discussion is enough to warrant putting 5 votes on EA just yet?Lowell wrote:kuribo- is there a reason you don't put your vote where your mouth is?
Although I see roflcoptor disagrees.
Certainly his "slip," and his extreme overreaction to the slightest bit of criticism bears further discussion than just a quicklynch.-
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dcorbe Goon
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If he were lynched right now and flipped town it would likely be scum hammering. If scum were to jump on the wagon right now for the quick hammer, it would be obvious what they were doing. It would be very stupid to quick-lynch him right now.kuribo wrote:
Stop it. Whenever I see this, I see you saying, "We can push a wagon as far as we want, but don't worry you're in no danger, and if you're lynched, it was an accident."dcorbe wrote: At L-2 he's in no danger of getting lynched any time soon and most early D1 wagons fall apart anyways.
So again, he's in no danger of being lynched at L-2 because it would take not 1 but 2 more people to jump on.-
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dcorbe Goon
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@Cephrir:
I do understand what bredcrumbing is. In the context of mafia it means to hint at your role or alignment. Is that not what he's doing?
So would you not find it suspicious if two more people were to hop on the wagon right now? If scum wouldn't be that careless then he's in no danger of being lynched, now is he? What reason would a townie have to hammer him so early in the game?Cephipher wrote: If he were lynched right now and flipped town it would likely be scum hammering
The rest of your post seems to be attacking me for wagoning someone. You've admitted that his wagon is producing useful information in some respect, at least with is interaction with kurbio anyways.Cephipher wrote: dcorbe's q21 vote is OMGUSy and not particularly well-founded. His EA vote was actually based on a tell, not an "anti-scumhunting attitude", even if EA's "slip-up" isn't the greatest tell ever.
I gave justification for my vote. Just because it was in response to him voting for me doesn't make it OMGUSy. Look up the definition of the term.
Oh and as far as this is concerned:
It's quite "anti-scumhunting" to sit there and preach about how I'm wagoning baselessly and then proclaim that it's time to "move past the "random voting" since we're on page three." offering NOTHING to help further that cause.Cephipher wrote: As I mentioned, this post is weird. What massive said was not the least bit "anti-scumhunting".
I've already explained what my stance is on early wagoning, so I'm not going to go through that process again.-
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dcorbe Goon
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Maybe "nobody" is a bad choice of word, but you obviously don't wagon for information much if you don't understand the difference between a vote with intent to lynch and a vote with intent to pressure.roflcopter wrote:dcorbe, next time you say that nobody is trying to lynch the guy who's been wagoned to lynch-2, go dunk your head in cold water and realign your conceptions of reality. i for one never vote for someone outside of random voting that I don't want to see lynched.
I now know that having tunnel vision is more of a play style thing with you than a tell but quick lynches are bad. Maybe you need to be wagoned a few more times yourself before you're going to realize that.-
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dcorbe Goon
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dcorbe Goon
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dcorbe Goon
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dcorbe Goon
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dcorbe Goon
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dcorbe Goon
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dcorbe
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dcorbe Goon
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I decided Lowell had a good point. As I indicated I've replaced into similar situations before. I thought about it some and I was sure that he was scum so I decided it wouldn't be fair to someone coming it to try and defend themselves or to come into the game only to claim.massive wrote:dcorbe: Can you explain how you went from "wait for his replacement" to "I'll hammer him" (even though you didn't) to "maybe his replacement can claim" in regards to your opinion about Erratus in the span of about twenty hours?
Trying REALLY hard to shoot down a perfectly legitimate reason to start an early wagon on someone... but he's going to hang back a bit after this and wait for someone else to jump on me so that he can look pro town later on.Cybele wrote: FoWhatIsWrongWithYou: dcorbe because I think it's pretty obvious that EA is not breadcrumbing, and exiting the random voting stage is not anti-scumhunting. Your posts are really weird and you take everything seriously, what's with that?
q21 does eventually starts picking apart my wagon on post 60 but I noted that Cybele was already first on my wagon at this point.
After sparring with q21 a bit, he begins attacking me by proxy (post 73).
He doesn't post again until 104, when he realized that EA was going to get lynched no matter what he did and he FoSes EA with very little good reasoning in an attempt to distance himself. A complete reversal, mind you, from his previous position.Cybele wrote: q21 wrote:
No, by unvoting him EA you are in fact the one who ensured that the EA wagon would fall apart, I just said I didn't like it. I don't see how my posting could stop you getting info out of EA.
Brought aup a good point here. Dcorbe isn't too willing to hold onto the bandwagon that he engineered, despite him being so sure it was under valid pretenses, and with information to gain. Now, even if his suspicions about q21 are correct, the only reason q21 would have to jump on dcorbe is if Erratus is his scumbuddy. Why else disrupt the lynch, and bring suspicion on himself? We could have at least pressured some information from Erratus, and moved on to q21. Instead, dcorbe noticed his bandwagon being picked at, and attacked. I don't htink dcorbe has enough invested in his bandwagons to be town.
q21 wrote:
And anyway, assuming three scum at the beginning of a 12 player game is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. It doesn't really help anyone much, but it isn't some outrageous assumption that indicates that he must know something. Yes, its perfectly possible that it was a scum slip, but it really isn't enough to justify the L-2 wagon on him.
Not a bad reason for day one, but we have two better suspects right now. I believe q21 is less suspicious, but that's me.
Confirm Vote: dcorbe
He does take the opportunity to take another pot-shot at me though hoping the mere appearance of impropriety on my part will help him save face when his scum buddy flips.
Then he drops off the planet again...
Then comes back to drop the hammer in order to distance himself some more from his scum partner.Cybele wrote: Just got back from work. i'll do the honors.
unvote, vote Erratus Apathos
Looking at the wagon that formed on me on D1:
EA wasn't the only scum on that wagon, methinks.votecount wrote: dcorbe (4): cybele, Erratus, q21, empking
I'm having a hard time deciding if q21 is scum or if he's just extremely misguided, so I'm happy to leave him alive today in favor of a cybele lynch to see how his interactions with the rest of the group continue to pan out.
In conclusion:
HoS: q21,mostly for a protracted argument with me in an attempt to derail the EA wagon[/b]
IGMEOY: empking,mostly for post 76 which is an extremely misguided attempt to pick apart my wagon because I decided to go after q21 in order to shut down his coup on the EA wagon.
Vote: cybele-
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dcorbe Goon
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What's wrong with drawing conclusions from his interactions with me? Especially considering I was practically the only one he interacted with.Cephrir wrote:First off, your first Cybele quote is actually from me. Secondly, I don't really agree. You're basing both of your top two suspects almost entirely on interactions with you. What you said about Cybele especially... everything you say about him, you label him as scum and then say why, as scum, he is doing what he's doing, while it's entirely reasonable for a townie to do the same. I believe I expressed my concerns with your q21 suspicions yesterday. Having an argument with you =! attempting to derail a wagon. You're just deciding that they have scummy motives for no real reason.
Notice I dinged him for his actions too, chiefly:
1) He was so adamantly against an EA wagon
2) He lurked
3) He attacked me opportunistically using someone else's argument against me
4) He lurked some more
5) He hammered someone whose wagon he was against.-
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dcorbe Goon
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IF he is scum (as you say) why would letting him ride it out be a good idea? Who would you propose we concentrate on instead?massive wrote:But even with the assumption that EA was going to be eventually lynched one way or another, do you think it would be good scumplay on Cybele's part to hammer his/her partner? People WERE clamoring for a replacement, despite how detrimental it could have been to the game. If Cybele is scum, why not ride it out a bit?
Do you believe that a Cybele wagon would have any merit at all at this point?-
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dcorbe Goon
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BTW I don't like all this blatant defending going on. If you care to hop on a bandwagon because you agree with my reasoning that's fine, but if you blast me before the target of my aggression has a chance to respond to me, then it sort of comes off like you're not actually interested in doing any scum hunting at all.-
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dcorbe Goon
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I've already explained why I felt it necessary to put a vote out there on q21, but I'll go through the process again because it keeps coming up. This will probably be the last time I say this before I start ignoring it.
1) I felt as if the EA wagon was going to fall apart because I had to telegraph my intentions to get q21 to stop his relentless assault on my wagon.I was just simply wrong in this assumption
2) I'm not demanding that anyone be targeted, though I still support the wagoning process in its fullest. I tried to make my case against cybele and it isn't panning out like I had hoped, but I'm not sitting here arguing with people about it like you seem to enjoy doing.-
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dcorbe Goon
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And when he drops some more scum tells so that I have more to go on I'll continue arguing the case. This goes back to what I was saying about people blasting me before I can get responses from the people I'm targeting directly. Why should he respond now? Someone else already shut me down on his behalf.q21 wrote:But dcorbe, you're supposed to argue your cases, not just make them and hope a wagon forms.
I would have really preferred to hear what HE had to say, not you or massive or Cephrir.
Notice I haven't unvoted him yet, or even stated that my suspicion has subsided. I'm still interested in HIS response to my criticisms-
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