Mini Normal 2098 - Game Over! (Mafia Won)

[Luca Blight]

I’m sick at the moment so consider me

V/LA

until Tomorrow.

[Luca Blight]

Catching-up....(striked the stuff that has been answered/is no longer relevant)

27 -

I'm struggling to follow why this is scummy?

31 -

Do you still find Profii scummy, or did his response cause you to reconsider?

35 -

Do you consider these to be AI questions? If you're 'not a fan' of Norwegianboy, why not place a vote on him yourself here?

Skellen's opening seems decent, and her thoughts in 41 mirror my own.

42 - This seems fair enough. Early town-lean on Norwegianboy.

46 - Decent thought-process from Billy, early town-lean here as well.

56 - I can relate to this. Posting a naked RVS vote as scum is actually quite a ballsy thing to do.

63, 64 - This is just BS, shading people based on V/LA's right at the start of the game and during a weekend. Billy has even been contributing despite his V/LA, and I had just announced I would catch up Tomorrow, which I am fulfilling now.

65, 66, 67 - This feels Townie.

[Luca Blight]

Not a fan of Norweigenboy's defensive tone, and definitely not a fan that he unvoted when getting pressure for voting.

Not a fan of this. I dislike how you are obviously not feeling good about Norwegianboy yet you are hesitant to increase the pressure on him with not voting him?

VOTE: Billy

But yeah the reason I was looking at that particular post was this one - this reason for voting seems like 'too good to be true' or 'too textbook'

I dont know how to articulate it but if i wanted to lay a vote down and give a reason that made me look town, I'd look for something like this which is a pretty irrefutable under the radar reason... so I'm gonna call it a double bluff and...

VOTE: Skellen

This is actually a good point. I had something similar going through my mind when I read that, but couldn't quite put it into words.

[Luca Blight]

Ok, fully caught up. My early reads are as follows:

Town-leaning Billy, Profii and Norwegianboy, null on everyone else.

I know I said her opening was decent in 94, but looking back it almost seems a little too 'polished', so I'm gonna sheep Profii on this one.

VOTE: Skellen

[Luca Blight]

Hmm I'm mulling over kraeg I'm just going to put him to the side for a bit. All I can take from his post is something is making him jumpy. The only possibilities I can think of are.
1.This is first scum game and his having trouble entering.
2 he has a power role,
3.His pulling a slayers gambit.

He will probably need to be sorted sometime latter on but I am watching to see what they do next.



I looked at skellen, I get her play is textbook and generic but I seen town do this as well.and it's rvs so the wagon isn't that appealing to me. That being said I liked profii's initial vote on the wagon. I don't think I need to go to indepth with the town read since I think it's the common opinion.


Emperor flippyNips is kinda jumpy but It's not really that scummy.


Luca blight I find interesting. They are currently voting Skellen for being generic responses that seem polished ect. But their post 94 is pretty generic as well as it's just stating the obvious.

What I find interesting is they said they found everything skellen said the same thought they had. If you found what they said agreeable and mirroring your own. Wouldn't you be a bit conflicted if they are town or not. They were like oh yeah I had the same feeling as you profii. It's early rvs so I'm more forgiving of being hollow but it seems like they are trying to portray image of having independent thought with out throwing something out that breaks the mold or makes them stand out.


It's funny how placed in juxtaposition to each other both come off as generic actions but one null and the other comes off as scummy to me.

VOTE: Luca Blight

I don't really like the speculating over a PR here, that sort of thing never sits well with me especially this early on. No idea what you're talking about with regards to the 'slayers gambit'.

Coasting along with the 'popular opinion' also doesn't sit well with me.

You said it yourself, we're barely out of RVS - why would I be feeling conflicted at this stage? There isn't nearly enough information to base a strong SR on, it was just a feeling I had. Most of my scum pings around the RVS stage come from posts that seem a little too polished and precise, and even though I couldn't disagree with what Skellen wrote during her opening, that feeling did pass over me.

[Luca Blight]

I am a bit unsure what to think of Luca's opening, feels like it's too focused on norwegian.

I could understand this PoV if I literally mentioned no-one but Norwegianboy, but that wasn't the case at all. Norwegianboy has probably been the most involved player so far, so it feels pretty natural that I should talk about him during my catch-up?

[Luca Blight]

Ok, so Luca came here saying Skellen's thoughts mirrors his own and then voted him because of the same thoughts that mirrors his own?

Her thoughts did mirror my own with in terms of 41, but I was more referring to her entire opening (39 - 41) feeling like the sort of entrance I could see envisage a decent scum player making. Looking back it was mainly 39 that triggered this feeling.

[Luca Blight]

I know I said her opening was decent in 94, but looking back it almost seems a little too 'polished', so I'm gonna sheep Profii on this one.

I am not going to parrot Garmr here as I agree with him regarding you for the most part. What interests me would be if your perception of my vote influenced your read on Billy's posts/behaviour which I was referring to back then as you seemingly agreed with me there? I phrased it maybe awkwardly, but I get profii's thought process as he came to another conclusion, I don't get how you got there though.

Your post didn't influence me, I just had a similar thought run through my mind as I was catching-up.

When I was reading through I could kind of agree with everything you said from 39-41, and yet I had a bad feeling about your posts, which I couldn't yet put into words. Profii then seemed to notice the same thing I was feeling deep inside, so that's why I decided to sheep him on it.

[Luca Blight]

Just googled Slayer's gambit; it's when you intentionally act scummy as a VT.

What I'm wondering is why Garmr has said all of this stuff and not kept it to himself to see how it develops (which would seem the natural thing to do if he were Town). It feels like he's saying these things to give the impression he is deliberating over Kraeg's alignment, but it reads false to me.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Garmr

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

Hmm I'm mulling over kraeg I'm just going to put him to the side for a bit. All I can take from his post is something is making him jumpy. The only possibilities I can think of are.
1.This is first scum game and his having trouble entering.
2 he has a power role,
3.His pulling a slayers gambit.

He will probably need to be sorted sometime latter on but I am watching to see what they do next.



I looked at skellen, I get her play is textbook and generic but I seen town do this as well.and it's rvs so the wagon isn't that appealing to me. That being said I liked profii's initial vote on the wagon. I don't think I need to go to indepth with the town read since I think it's the common opinion.


Emperor flippyNips is kinda jumpy but It's not really that scummy.


Luca blight I find interesting. They are currently voting Skellen for being generic responses that seem polished ect. But their post 94 is pretty generic as well as it's just stating the obvious.

What I find interesting is they said they found everything skellen said the same thought they had. If you found what they said agreeable and mirroring your own. Wouldn't you be a bit conflicted if they are town or not. They were like oh yeah I had the same feeling as you profii. It's early rvs so I'm more forgiving of being hollow but it seems like they are trying to portray image of having independent thought with out throwing something out that breaks the mold or makes them stand out.


It's funny how placed in juxtaposition to each other both come off as generic actions but one null and the other comes off as scummy to me.

VOTE: Luca Blight

I don't really like the speculating over a PR here, that sort of thing never sits well with me especially this early on. No idea what you're talking about with regards to the 'slayers gambit'.

Coasting along with the 'popular opinion' also doesn't sit well with me.

You said it yourself, we're barely out of RVS - why would I be feeling conflicted at this stage? There isn't nearly enough information to base a strong SR on, it was just a feeling I had. Most of my scum pings around the RVS stage come from posts that seem a little too polished and precise, and even though I couldn't disagree with what Skellen wrote during her opening, that feeling did pass over me.

Oh ho your tone is very defensive with that passive aggression.


So do you think bring up a scenario were a slot may be a pr role makes me scum? What purpose do you think I have doing it?



I said I don't have to explain why, not I'm going to go with popular opinion because I don't have my own on profii, it just happens to align. I almost did list what I liked in my original post through but I changed my mind and left it out on purpose to see how people would react.

Can I ask if you thought your post through or was it a initial reaction to me scum reading you becuase I don't think you seen the implications? If I was just coasting along with the popular opinions would I disagree with profii on skellen and vote you instead?

P:EDIT Accidentally posted a preview somehow.

So my tone is 'very defensive' due to 'passive-aggression'? That seems a bit reachy/contradictory.

In of itself, no, but could scum bring up a role that may be a pr? I think it's more likely coming from scum that Town, especially this early on. As I said, as a townie it would be more natural to keep such thoughts to yourself and see how they develop. If you were scum and they therefore weren't genuine thoughts, then it would make more sense to highlight them to make it seem as though you are doing some in-depth thinking, especially considering all your other reads are pretty surface-level.

I could use the same argument; why would I, as scum, knowingly flip on my Skellen read, thus inviting unnecessary pressure?

Just googled Slayer's gambit; it's when you intentionally act scummy as a VT.

What I'm wondering is why Garmr has said all of this stuff and not kept it to himself to see how it develops (which would seem the natural thing to do if he were Town). It feels like he's saying these things to give the impression he is deliberating over Kraeg's alignment, but it reads false to me.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Garmr

Here comes the OMGUS. Why wouldn't I say it out loud? I can get feedback from other players and it helps me read them as well. This seems like a weak excuse to vote me because I voted you.

OMGUS? Now who's being passive-aggressive?

I wouldn't have thought, if you were Town, that you would say it out loud for a few reasons:

1) Speculating on someone who might be a PR this early on is just bad 'town' play, that's common sense
2) If he is indeed playing the slayer's gambit, then you've just impeded it
3) There isn't enough data to give any credence to any one of your 3 'scenarios', so inviting others' to give their opinion on the matter would bring back limited results, and you've basically ended your own line of internal inquiry.

[Luca Blight]

So my tone is 'very defensive' due to 'passive-aggression'? That seems a bit reachy/contradictory.



In of itself, no, but could scum bring up a role that may be a pr? I think it's more likely coming from scum that Town, especially this early on. As I said, as a townie it would be more natural to keep such thoughts to yourself and see how they develop. If you were scum and they therefore weren't genuine thoughts, then it would make more sense to highlight them to make it seem as though you are doing some in-depth thinking, especially considering all your other reads are pretty surface-level.

I could use the same argument; why would I, as scum, knowingly flip on my Skellen read, thus inviting unnecessary pressure?

You can be passive aggressive as a defensive reaction. The two don't contradict each other.....

Also it's kinda weak you threw back something I said about you I'm not being passive aggressive I'm directly confronting you, do you think me stating the fact you are omgusing is avoiding confrontation?

Sigh this dumb Your saying I'm trying to look like I'm doing some deep thinking instead of hunting, but I'm scum for going with popular opinion and not stating why I town read Profii in my post. Wouldn't that conflict with my earlier goal. Also I don't think my case on you was surface level or the discussion of similarities/differences between you and skellen at the time.

What most of your case is doing is picking one point making up a scum motive for it and painting a label for me with it. But the labels contradict if you actually have some common sense.

A defensive 'tone' implies more direct aggression rather than passive-aggression. The fact you're trying to paint my response as defensive in the first place just seems sketchy - it's an easy response to anyone who questions your SR of them, and it doesn't really apply in this case, but the way you say it's 'passive-aggressive' is like you're setting up a situation where no matter what I do it could be spun as being 'defensive'.

It was not a 'fact' that I was OMGUSING; it is a big reach for you to even suggest it, and the fact you're trying to push that argument seems defensive in itself.

As for your 'dumb' line, you've completely missed the point. You have surace-level reads and one that appears more 'in-depth' - that was the point I was making. I wasn't suggesting you were only trying to make in-depth reads. I think your read on me was pretty surface level, to be honest; you didn't consider what benefit I would have as scum of flipping my view on Skellen like that.

OMGUS? Now who's being passive-aggressive?

I wouldn't have thought, if you were Town, that you would say it out loud for a few reasons:

1) Speculating on someone who might be a PR this early on is just bad 'town' play, that's common sense
2) If he is indeed playing the slayer's gambit, then you've just impeded it
3) There isn't enough data to give any credence to any one of your 3 'scenarios', so inviting others' to give their opinion on the matter would bring back limited results, and you've basically ended your own line of internal inquiry.

1)You say it's bad town play it's also bad scum play to announce it as it gets you flack. There is a town use for talking about potential power roles but it's dirty and I don't mind playing a little dirty.
2)If he is playing a slayers gambit his setting up a mislynch on himself since those catch town as well. I'd rather lynch scum day 1.
3)People can disagree or add their own. Also it's not ended as we are discussing it now.

1) Yes I would agree it's bad play as either alignment, but it feels weirder coming from town
2) it's way too early to say he was setting up his own mislynch, which leads me back to my original point; the benefit of keeping such info close to your chest, if it's actually genuine
3) It's ended in terms of a natural progression of how Kraeg would have continued, and how people would have reacted to him

[Luca Blight]

See I'm siding with Luca here

When you said popular opinion is profii = town I actually checked and 3 people had put me, let's say, the town side of the line... one of those 3 was Luca, who you (garmr) scum read at the time so at that point alarm bells were ringing that you actually just knew I was town (I.e. TMI) and rolled with it

That's why I was asking about how well you think you can read me

The only thing stopping me voting you right now is you say you omitted the reasons you think I'm town (tell me about them please) for a reaction test (tell me what you learnt please)

I dont like the PR stuff either but the less said the better

Lucas just town as far as I'm concerned we see the game very similarly so I'm gonna roll with that

If you want to vote me go for it no need to hold back. I'm fine with making luca and me the leading wagons. But if I end up mislynched somehow Sheep my opinions as they are better than yours if you town read Luca.

This is a very odd thing to say 6 pages into the game. Are you really so confident I'm scum that you're willing to 1v1 me to the death already?

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

See I'm siding with Luca here

When you said popular opinion is profii = town I actually checked and 3 people had put me, let's say, the town side of the line... one of those 3 was Luca, who you (garmr) scum read at the time so at that point alarm bells were ringing that you actually just knew I was town (I.e. TMI) and rolled with it

That's why I was asking about how well you think you can read me

The only thing stopping me voting you right now is you say you omitted the reasons you think I'm town (tell me about them please) for a reaction test (tell me what you learnt please)

I dont like the PR stuff either but the less said the better

Lucas just town as far as I'm concerned we see the game very similarly so I'm gonna roll with that

If you want to vote me go for it no need to hold back. I'm fine with making luca and me the leading wagons. But if I end up mislynched somehow Sheep my opinions as they are better than yours if you town read Luca.

This is a very odd thing to say 6 pages into the game. Are you really so confident I'm scum that you're willing to 1v1 me to the death already?

Yep your reaction to me voting you was really telling. You were reaching for reasons to scum read me and they didn't come off as natural reasons. It's like you were trying to justify your scum read on me instead of actually reading me.

Not really - I'm not gonna pretend I have firm evidence for you being scum, but I maintain what I've said. Your reaction to me, likewise, has made a deeper impression as well, but I'm not one to tunnel. I'm undecided whether, based on your reaction, that you're just sensitive/stubborn Town or scum getting ready for a battle of survival. I could relate to either of these mind-states myself. In the past I might have accepted such a 1v1, but I know better these days.

If you are Town then try to stay open-minded. If you continue to scumread me, fine, but I am Town and the longer the day goes on the more that will become clear.

Spoiler:

So my tone is 'very defensive' due to 'passive-aggression'? That seems a bit reachy/contradictory.



In of itself, no, but could scum bring up a role that may be a pr? I think it's more likely coming from scum that Town, especially this early on. As I said, as a townie it would be more natural to keep such thoughts to yourself and see how they develop. If you were scum and they therefore weren't genuine thoughts, then it would make more sense to highlight them to make it seem as though you are doing some in-depth thinking, especially considering all your other reads are pretty surface-level.

I could use the same argument; why would I, as scum, knowingly flip on my Skellen read, thus inviting unnecessary pressure?

You can be passive aggressive as a defensive reaction. The two don't contradict each other.....

Also it's kinda weak you threw back something I said about you I'm not being passive aggressive I'm directly confronting you, do you think me stating the fact you are omgusing is avoiding confrontation?

Sigh this dumb Your saying I'm trying to look like I'm doing some deep thinking instead of hunting, but I'm scum for going with popular opinion and not stating why I town read Profii in my post. Wouldn't that conflict with my earlier goal. Also I don't think my case on you was surface level or the discussion of similarities/differences between you and skellen at the time.

What most of your case is doing is picking one point making up a scum motive for it and painting a label for me with it. But the labels contradict if you actually have some common sense.

A defensive 'tone' implies more direct aggression rather than passive-aggression. The fact you're trying to paint my response as defensive in the first place just seems sketchy - it's an easy response to anyone who questions your SR of them, and it doesn't really apply in this case, but the way you say it's 'passive-aggressive' is like you're setting up a situation where no matter what I do it could be spun as being 'defensive'.

It was not a 'fact' that I was OMGUSING; it is a big reach for you to even suggest it, and the fact you're trying to push that argument seems defensive in itself.

As for your 'dumb' line, you've completely missed the point. You have surace-level reads and one that appears more 'in-depth' - that was the point I was making. I wasn't suggesting you were only trying to make in-depth reads. I think your read on me was pretty surface level, to be honest; you didn't consider what benefit I would have as scum of flipping my view on Skellen like that.

OMGUS? Now who's being passive-aggressive?

I wouldn't have thought, if you were Town, that you would say it out loud for a few reasons:

1) Speculating on someone who might be a PR this early on is just bad 'town' play, that's common sense
2) If he is indeed playing the slayer's gambit, then you've just impeded it
3) There isn't enough data to give any credence to any one of your 3 'scenarios', so inviting others' to give their opinion on the matter would bring back limited results, and you've basically ended your own line of internal inquiry.

1)You say it's bad town play it's also bad scum play to announce it as it gets you flack. There is a town use for talking about potential power roles but it's dirty and I don't mind playing a little dirty.
2)If he is playing a slayers gambit his setting up a mislynch on himself since those catch town as well. I'd rather lynch scum day 1.
3)People can disagree or add their own. Also it's not ended as we are discussing it now.

1) Yes I would agree it's bad play as either alignment, but it feels weirder coming from town
2) it's way too early to say he was setting up his own mislynch, which leads me back to my original point; the benefit of keeping such info close to your chest, if it's actually genuine
3) It's ended in terms of a natural progression of how Kraeg would have continued, and how people would have reacted to him

A defensive tone can be used to avoid certain conflict. What's sketchy is you are trying to use my arguments and apply them to me when they don't work in that context. I brought up painting me in a image and you warp the argument and throw it back at me. You have done this mutiple times now

First the passive aggressive thing, then the surface level posts (which you dropped when I showed it wasn't) and now this no your the defensive one. Your basically playing a more advanced versions of "I know you are but what am I."

The fact you pushed me in that manner after I placed my vote on you and not before when you were doing your catch up shows my vote on you caused this defensive reaction.

Disagree if I was trying to portray a more in depth image I would of done it with every read which I didn't. Honestly you say my reads are only surface level but that's a label you placed on it to avoid them as I can point to my read on you do you think my case on you is surface level and if it is how so? Also by being aggressive and using the label surface you deflect from the accusation I made about your post 94 was incredibly surface level.

Do you also avoided my discussion about skellen and you do you think that is surface level.


so lets add these in

1.Reusing my points on me in attempt to subtly discredit them with out really addressing some of them.

2.Picking and choosing what you want out of my case. It loses context in this manner. Like my reads are surface level but just using profii as a example with out explaining the others.

3.Your point on me is a difference on ideals and scum hunting behaviour involving the power role thing. It's basically saying it doesn't match how I would do it so he must be scum.

This is quickly becoming a pissing-contest, so this will be my final say on the matter.

Just because you use an argument against me doesn't mean I can't use the same argument against you. And it does apply here as I've explained.

I didn't drop the surface level thing - you misunderstood what I said and I corrected you.

Your post that contained all the information we are now discussing took place after my catch-up, so obviously my argument against you happened after my catch-up? How are you trying to portray this as scummy, when it is just common sense that I can only reply to something after I see it?

Easier said than done. And again, just because you say something of mine is surface-level doesn't mean I can't think the same about some of your posts - in fact it's natural to look for such hypocrisy.

Regarding Skellen, I'll have to look back later but I believe it was a case of 'it's similar to Luca's opening but Luca's one is more scummy', or something along those lines. It didn't strike me as being particularly profound at the time.

1. I have addressed everything you have said, and if I have used some of your own arguments against you then it hasn't been in an unfair or underhand manner.
2. I picked and chose what I thought were the most relevant points
3. I've never said you must be scum (that's your line), but it doesn't match my Town mindset so it's something worth picking up on early doors.

UNVOTE:

I have to go to work now so continue this if you wish, but I'm taking a step back here.

[Luca Blight]

Billy, you can’t talk about ongoing games. This is a really important thing to remember.

Traveling home atm so will respond to stuff in an hour or two

[Luca Blight]

The difference is I wasn't

trying

to give anything in-depth at that stage - I'm not going to pretend there is enough data a few pages in to massively deliberate over something. That was the point I was making about you - you gave some superficial reads on Flippy, Profii and myself (I realise we disagree on this one, but I think you're reasoning for voting me was super obvious - do you not think I was aware I would come under some pressure for a sudden flip of my Skellen view? And I don't see why I should feel conflicted this early on with such little data), and then a more in-depth look at Kraeg, which seemed a bit forced in order to compensate for the other stuff.

Again, I'm not claiming my reasons for voting Garmr were flawless, but he seems to be suggesting his reasons for suspecting me are, such is his confidence in his scumread. I'm still not sure if he's just really stubborn Town or scum pushing an agenda, which is why I've taken a step back to get a better picture of the game as a whole. I'm a pretty big PoE player and I so far haven't seen enough to get an adequate read on a number of players.

[Luca Blight]

- You're repeatedly missing the point. I never said all your reads are surface level, and having surface level reads isn't even a crime in itself early doors. My point was that it seemed you were compensating for that in the Kraeg 'deliberation', which seemed forced for the reasons I've already stated.

- I've not consistently painted anything as scummy, I made my point, which I stand by, and then have answered wave after wave of attacks from yourself about it.

- I've never said I have a real case, it was a starting point to a scumread. Just like my Skellen vote wasn't massively meaningful - it was a starting point, very much subject to later behavior.

- The first time I saw it I didn't even know what you were talking about with regards to the Slayer's gambit. Everything that pinged me came about after my original catch-up post.

I'm not getting into this 1v1 with you. If you are Town then take a deep breath, calm down and drop this so others can't just coast off the back of it. If you're scum then continue digging yourself a hole, because it won't end well for you.

[Luca Blight]

Since when do I need a 'real case' to vote someone early in the game?

I'm pulling away from it because I've had many situations like this in the past and rarely does something good come from repeatedly attacking each other with wall posts.

I can see your reaction from both perspectives. I used to play in a similar way as Town where I'd 1v1 someone for the hell of it, mainly out of ego rather than actually believing the other person was definitely scum (I don't believe your confidence in your SR on me, regardless of your alignment). I could also see you being angry scum getting frustrated at feeling 'unfairly' scumread and getting ready for war. I've been in both of these positions myself.

As I said, you can continue doing whatever you want, but I'm taking a step back because I want to get a read on everyone, not just you

[Luca Blight]

1. It's not about being or not being in the limelight, I just think this conversation continuing for too long is harmful for the general gameplay, especially as we're essentially going in circles. As I said, been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

2. I've acknowledged I don't have firm evidence for you being scum, but I maintain the points I made were valid.

3. That's a loaded, misrepping question...Extra scum points to you, congratulations.

[Luca Blight]

My own words huh? So I actually said all my points were 'empty' and my case wasn't 'real'?

You're blatantly twisting what I've said to make it appear scummy.

[Luca Blight]

I am

VL/A until Monday

, so just want to give some thoughts before I go, surface-level as they may be.

Billy is Town for me atm - showing signs of game-solving and objective reasoning.

Garmr is probably Town, as much as he annoys me. I think scum would have taken the option of a breather from a 1v1 battle to the death when offered it, and his recent posting hasn’t been as bad.

Profii just reeks Town.

NorwegianboyEE seems townie - he’s saying what’s on his mind and is not trying to censor his thoughts or make them look good.

Mob - seems the most obvious scum candidate for the way they’re coasting along, looking somewhat busy without many hard stances or pushes. I agree the switch from Garmr to Kraeg looks a bit suspect.

Kraeg just feels naturally scummy to me, but I’m not sure if it’s the playstyle.

Flippy’s reasoning against me feels weird to say the least. Feels like he is trying to look as though he’s taking a stance but is really just fence-sitting.

When i return I will begin the process of iso’ing everyone and will give a more in-depth view of the game.

[Luca Blight]

Just back from V/LA, gonna be catching up today.

[Luca Blight]

Flippy’s reasoning against me feels weird to say the least. Feels like he is trying to look as though he’s taking a stance but is really just fence-sitting.

I hear this fence sitting shit so often its kind of annoying. like why can’t I just plant my thoughts in your brain through text form? how else are y’all going to know them. & my vote on you was me sheeping in what was stilll RVS to me

also what am I doing that is “fence sitting”?

also what even is fence sitting?

You hear about '

this fence-sitting shit'

so often, yet you don't even know what fence-sitting is? right...

It's something that scum often do; avoid taking a real stance so they can't be being blamed for anything, while also keeping their voting options open.

[Luca Blight]

Hold on.

Give me time to think if I will roleclaim. Whatever happens, the wagon on me gives everyone a clue. At least one of the players in the wagon will definitely flip scum. I think I'm becoming an easy lynch for the scum. I was thinking that some people are just putting pressure on me. I didn't expect people would be serious.

This reads more like '

give me time to discuss my fake-claim with my partner

'.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE COUNT 1.7

L-1

Kraeg (4) - NorwegianboyEE, Mohab500, Skellen, profii
Day 1 deadline is Friday, September 13th at 10:00 am PDT which is in

(expired on 2019-09-13 10:00:00)

intent

VOTE: give me something good Kraeg.

This seems a bit sus; Flippy had been coasting along while sticking on my wagon and shading me ever so slightly, but then when Profii puts Kraeg to L-1 Flippy immediately declared intent? I don't believe Flippy was even fully caught up at this point. It's like he doesn't want to miss out on a bit of towncred.

[Luca Blight]

Strong townlean:

profii
Garmr
Norwegianboy

Light townlean:

Skellen
Billy Pilgrim

Scumlean:

Kraeg
Flippy
Mohab

[Luca Blight]

Billy seems to be a person of interest, however, so I will get round to ISO'ing him before the day's end.

[Luca Blight]

"50% of the time it works all the time"

- So basically it works half the time?...

Seriously, for someone who has been actively questioning the intelligence of others this game, that sure was a stupid move. Even if it turns out Kraeg's lying, it isn't optimal to lynch a claimed JK on D1 without a genuine CC. I feel like policy-lynching Garmr for this, but to be honest I don't think he's scum.

The way things are going I'm wondering if we might as well mass-claim already...

[Luca Blight]

I agree that Mohab looks sketchy calling for the two claimed pr's to be lynched one after another - this doesn't seem to make sense from a Townie perspective.

VOTE: Mohab

[Luca Blight]

Careful not to pile the votes on though as that's

L-2

.

[Luca Blight]

Kreag accepts me as a jailkeeper instead of pushing against my counter claim.

He should be totally against me.

As for this point - I can see why he, as Town RB, would consider that you were telling the truth about your own claim - because it makes no sense for scum to claim there. Once Kraeg is lynched and flips Town, your lynch would follow Tomorrow.

Not that I fully believe Kraeg. I don't know what to think after all this BS.

[Luca Blight]

What the fuck.

I was literally about to unvote in case anyone hammered without warning, but told myself not to be silly. And then this happens.

I get being frustrated but your Lynch was nowhere near sealed. You’ve just denied us valuable information. Really poor show.

This probably takes the biscuit as the most absurd self-hammer I’ve ever seen.

[Luca Blight]

It was a selfish course of action. I was nowhere near done sorting my reads for today. You’ve denied us information on how others would have reacted to garmr’s fake-claim.

Who cares if you’re suspected for the rest of the game? That’s the very nature of this game.

[Luca Blight]

Luca; the information you get from Garmr's fake claim is that he's scum. That's all.

Life isn’t so simple. Townies do stupid things all the time, as you’ve just demonstrated.

[Luca Blight]

Billy, regarding your last sentence in response to Profii - I think you’re on the borderline there once again. As a general rule just don’t mention anything about ongoing games if you can at all help it. Even if it’s something that seems insignificant, people can draw conclusions from what you’re saying, rightly or wrongly.

[Luca Blight]

garmr you know you're going to look sus as hell if Mohab flips town right? Pretty sure it's a bit early to celebrate and praise your own towniness don't ya think?

Why does a Mohab town flip make Garmr look sus as hell? I think suspicion of Mohab was justified at that point, and it’s hardly Garmr’s fault he self-hammered.

Again, we’ve lost precious information by this self-hammer. No-one can be particularly held accountable for this Lynch.

[Luca Blight]

It would be really odd timing to self-hammer as scum when he could have jumped on Garmr’s fake-claim or continued pushing Kraeg.

Although I’d have expected a little more frustrated shit-posting from town post-hammer, so perhaps there is a glimmer of hope.

[Luca Blight]

Go back and check. When I initially wanted you in jail, it was before you medium claimed a PR. And the one you claimed anyway sounded like IC. Don't know how putting you in jail at night would prevent that

tbh i just wanted to see if i could keep garmr alive because i thought his claim was right and he was worth drawing the night kill from

now he is retracting his claim i am just openly saying i was mucking about haha

Then why'd you use it to case me? Because you cased me after his retraction.

This is actually a good point.

Profii’s recent behavior has been very suspect. He has a lot to answer for tomorrow.

[Luca Blight]

I’m V/LA until monday

[Luca Blight]

I think with regards to the kill, the obvious answer is the correct one in this case. Kraeg is definitely today’s Lynch. I think Flippy is the most likely partner atm.

[Luca Blight]

I think, given we are about to Lynch the claimed RB, it would be a good idea to mass-claim here.

Let’s do this popcorn style. I will start. I want Flippy to go next.

I am a VT.

[Luca Blight]

Flippy, claim now.

[Luca Blight]

Ok, Profii and I are

Masons.

we are both confirmed Town to each other.

I wanted to wait a bit to see if anyone fake-claimed as there can’t be many other pr’s in this game.

Flippy claims next.

[Luca Blight]

And the only time I ‘suspected’ Profii was twilight of D1, to try and save him from a NK, which seemed to work.

[Luca Blight]

I don’t think I’ve ever ‘cased’ someone a few pages into a game. The ‘case’ was entirely in your mind, Garmr.

It was pretty strange how much confidence you had in your own ‘case’, however.

Also it’s very possible that masons could be the only Town PR (take a look at the newbie setups). Don’t let Kraeg off the hook just yet.

[Luca Blight]

I think Kraeg needs to be lynched for this game to progress. I'm having a hard time seeing him as Town here anyway.

Will hammer in a few hours, so get your final thoughts in before then.

[Luca Blight]

Roleblocker would be a powerful Town PR, so it seems too much for town to have Masons + RB in a 9p game.

[Luca Blight]

New page so will post my intent again...

I will

hammer

in a few hours so get your final thoughts down before then.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Kraeg

[Luca Blight]

I have been coasting this game to be honest, partly due to being busy and partly due to the shit that’s gone on in this game.

And yes, I feel the same way about you Flippy. You’re my top priority tomorrow regardless of this flip.

[Luca Blight]

I’m V/LA, will get to this Tomorrow.

[Luca Blight]

I’m coming around to the idea that it is Billy as well, but still not sure about Flippy.

Need to find time to read over again as if I choose wrong I’ll obviously be the NK.

[Luca Blight]

Just to share Profii’s thoughts before he died:

He thought Skellen was probably town, but slightly concerned she was letting the Kraeg Lynch happen rather than pushing it
He thought Billy was probably Town due to genuine paranoia
He thought Garmr could be scum due to his unvotes on Kraeg on both days
He thought Flippy was the best bet, and that Garmr should be lynched if Flippy flips green

[Luca Blight]

Just to share Profii’s thoughts before he died:

He thought Skellen was probably town, but slightly concerned she was letting the Kraeg Lynch happen rather than pushing it

He thought Billy was probably Town due to genuine paranoia

He thought Garmr could be scum due to his unvotes on Kraeg on both days

He thought Flippy was the best bet, and that Garmr should be lynched if Flippy flips green

A more readable version

[Luca Blight]

I think it could be any of Billy, Flippy or Garmr. Skellen hasn't been massively Townie imo, but she is far less of a SR than the other three so I'm inclined to agree that we need to almost clear her as Town at this stage.

Reading back I'm starting to lean Town on Billy, because his interactions in and around the time Kraeg was about to claim feels like he's genuinely trying to work the game out. He has a habit of posting walls with little content in this game which is pinging me a bit, and his immediate reaction to Kraeg's claim also pinged me. I'm thinking of sparing him for today, however. Some of Billy's direct interactions with Kraeg make him look bad on the surface, which also makes me feel like he could be town given scum have daychat; for example, when Billy told Kraeg not to claim as intent hadn't been posted (even though it actually had).

Flippy is probably the best lynch today. I can't see anything that makes me think he is town. I can relate to his distant attitude and feeling burnt out etc as I'm feeling the same atm, but I feel like he is scum who doesn't believe they'll win, due to having a partner like Kraeg who everyone SR on D1. He didn't really have anything to do with the Kraeg wagon but then immediately declares intent when he's put to L-1 - this struck me even at the time like he was trying to get in on some towncred late on.

Garmr's play would be risky coming from scum, but it's feasible when having a 'weak' scum partner (no offence intended) that he could play some heavy distancing games. The fact he was so quick to see through the claim and was willing to make the terrible 'town' play of fake CC'ing would make more sense if he were Kraeg's partner. The fact he later reconsidered and went for Mohab would make sense given losing his partner D1, even with gained towncred, would make it difficult to bring home the victory. He then went after Kraeg again but then thought he was Town after the Masons claim - I can kind of see why he might have thought this, but it still looks kind of bad.

[Luca Blight]

This is my third game with Billy.

Last game I (wrongly) SR you for blatantly scummy behaviour. This time it's more just a floating through attitude with no real purpose.

On the whole both Billy and Garmr have had more 'scummier' behaviour this game, but at the same time also have given me more reasons to TR them over you.

I'm still not entirely sure of my decision today, but I'm still leaning towards lynching you. As I said, I could be wrong and it could feasibly be either Billy or Garmr. It's a tough decision as I can see points against all three of you.

[Luca Blight]

For example when you were lining up future lynches based on your scumread flipping green. When you fake-claimed vig, and where you completely dropped into the background during important parts of the day. They’re just the three points that spring to mind from that game.

[Luca Blight]

At the start of that game you actually can’t across as really townie, which hasn’t been the case in this game.

[Luca Blight]

Came across*

[Luca Blight]

I’ve got a feeling Billy is flipping Town to be honest, but hope I’m wrong.

If Garmr or Skellen are scum then it’s probably game over at this point as Flippy is getting lynched Tomorrow.

[Luca Blight]

Billy, any last words?

[Luca Blight]

Flippy is going to hammer, Billy. He already said he will vote you.

I’ll end this now as you’re online so you can confirm your alignment, either way.

VOTE: Billy Pilgrim

[Luca Blight]

Ok, thought so but everyone was set on lynching you today.

It could well be Flippy who is scum but just take your time tomorrow and figure it out.

Good luck.

[Luca Blight]

I had a bad feeling about Skellen after her Billy vote yesterday. The truth is the other three were all more sketchy so even though I didn’t find Skellen that townie there was nothing that could pull me in that direction.

Good game.