Mini Normal 2108 : 1st game

[Menalque]

Hello friends

[Menalque]

Stay positive friends

[Menalque]

Hi my name is menalque but you can call me obvtown

[Menalque]

Okay that’s it I’m out of openings to steal

[Menalque]

Heya menalque

Hi skitt

I keep playing games with you and like, not rolling scum or masons with you ever

W/e it will happen eventually

[Menalque]

So first up let’s UNVOTE:

Second I haven’t read basically at all yet apart from like 2 pages so can someone catch me up on more or less what’s going on

[Menalque]

Heya menalque

Hi skitt

I keep playing games with you and like, not rolling scum or masons with you ever

W/e it will happen eventually

I'm a little nervous about this line since that's what you used to get me townread u last time

Is there any chance we could just skip the paranoia and go straight to the working together bit

[Menalque]

So first up let’s UNVOTE:

Second I haven’t read basically at all yet apart from like 2 pages so can someone catch me up on more or less what’s going on

30 pages of bickering and toxicity, it's been great

Oof, my kind of game

Is there any chance we could just skip the paranoia and go straight to the working together bit

A) again, given this is what you pulled last time, no
B) you havent sorted me yet, why are you even asking me this?

(1)
(2) i mean the reason that my approach worked last time as scum is that I’m literally taking the same approach to you as both alignments which is town until proven otherwise

Also you’re not toxic which makes me like +++ wanna try to work with you from get go

[Menalque]

Also do you really think scum!me tries exactly the same approach on you two games in a row?

[Menalque]

Oh look, all it says is Scumlean.

Cool!

Lol

[Menalque]

In too deep so you can’t back out, huh?
I'm sorry if my behaviour is too “try hardy" for you.
Nah,

fuck that

, why should I be apologising for your shitty behaviour? I play this game to win. That means pointing out shit I find scummy, and not giving ANYONE a free pass.
You’re playing this game to win too, but from the MAFIA's side. You lurk around with your non-game progressing behaviour, and the

second

you see something easy to push, you’re in there like a fucking Nazi going to Argentina.

Intent to hammer if Rob ever hits L-1.

This game got toxic?

No way

[Menalque]

It’s okay I’ll just buddy you harder

[Menalque]

We’ll get to that TR in the end

[Menalque]

VOTE: Tchill you all ways have to look out for the second one in the list

What did you think of this post from bob?

Also, what did you think of BEF’s and tchill’s openings?

[Menalque]

Why was it scummy and why did you think bef’s entrance was towny?

[Menalque]

I’m going to sleep but as of page 7 I’m leaning scum on BEF/tchill/hectic!slot

[Menalque]

Do you know why I asked you about bob’s RVS post?

[Menalque]

Oof, well, this will be fun, gotta decide if I think you’re lying about figuring that out or not

[Menalque]

It’s because you did the exact same thing in our first ever game together when sky RVS’d in a way that wasn’t related to what had happened before

So I was expecting you to call out bob for the same thing here (which I noticed you did while I was catching up) and figured it was probably for the same reasons

What I don’t know is if you’ve also done this as scum (I would guess quite possibly) or whether you figured out why I was asking and decided to give exactly the same reason you have there to make me feel like you were townie — but I feel that’s probably excessive of you to do

[Menalque]

Also I thought you were having doubts about BEF’s entrance the more you thought about it

What changed to put it back to minorly townie?

[Menalque]

wrt bob's rvs vote, i think that popping in and making a vague joke is scum-indicative, and that scum are more likely to make such rvs posts than townies are

... that's what this is saying

I know? I think you think I’m saying something different to what I’m saying

[Menalque]

Yeah sadly I figured that would be what you’d say because I didn’t think you’d have a tell that obvious

[Menalque]

Idk I townread you for tone like basically always but I just skimmed your ISO and it seems a lot more vote hoppy than I remember having seen from you before and that makes me slightly uncomfortable, like you don’t care that much who gets lynched? Esp considering the fact that I consider you to have a slight propensity for tunneling even if you’re also able to reevaluate those tunnels

I also saw that you went from a SR on tchill to a TR so I wanna check your progression on that tomorrow

[Menalque]

Interesting. I assume this is the new rabid?

Correct

[Menalque]

VOTE: bob

[Menalque]

Yo garmr what are your reads homie?

[Menalque]

Do you have any independent reasons for why my predecessor was scum @bef?

[Menalque]

Nothing yet, I haven’t got to where he repped in

Hectic is a fucking nightmare to read for me and I wish he wouldn’t sandbag his townplay to improve his scumplay but eh that’s another thing

I was mildly scumleaning him as of page 7 which is where I’m up to in my catchup

[Menalque]

How much stronger are you on tchill!scum than bob!scum?

Also am I gonna see the explanations for your reads when I finish my catch up?

[Menalque]

He has made that exact same RVS vote before

[Menalque]

I think I’m at L-3 now as tchill unvoted

[Menalque]

Here’s where I’m at more or less. I haven’t had a chance to catch up and as I’m shortly gonna drive to Geneva I may not be fully caught up by deadline either.

That said, I quite like reading off the first pages anyway.

So, I’m inclined to say garmr is town, has actually been engaging with people, giving reads, pushing shit, from a brief ISO skim. I’d ideally meta him but for now he can be town.

Skitt is just always provisionally town until she’s scum. I have like mild concerns about her but not enough to put her in my bottom 3 which means she stays as town for today.

Robb comes across as mildly townie from the early pages, although I find him really hard to read and maybe I’m just reading him not being toxic for once as him being town? But again, there are scummier people so he’s town by PoE.

I’m town, duh doy.

Wake is really null but townier than anyone left, so he’s in town.

Then creature is mildly scummy from hectic slot but still not actually in my top 3 scum so he also gets to be town for now. Also find him a nightmare to read, same as hectic. Not really sorting there.

****

BEF is like my loosest SR in that I’m not actually sure I’m SRing him. I just didn’t like him suggesting early on that rob/hectic was theatre, didn’t like his reason for leaving his vote on wake post RVS, but neither are really reasons to be scum exactly. Felt like he was making excuses to not do stuff right at the beginning but there’re enough posts in his ISO that I guess he has at least been posting even if I don’t know how much merit those posts have yet.

Tchill is when we start to get into actual SR territory. Didn’t like 60 where he suggests that “any decent scum [would] pour fire on this flame” which seems to me to be pretty LAMIST in a manipulative way. Like “any scum would do this please notice how I’m doing the very opposite”. Just sits with me wrong.
Also agree with my predecessor that he was fence sitty on rob/hectic. For instance in 58 when he talks about how hectic is always scummy and he won’t defend him if he gets run up, while treating them both as town in 60 where he’s asking them to both tone it down so town stands a better chance of winning

Bob is also scummy imo. Feels like he’s chainsawing garmr for his read on tchill, while also claiming it’s a meta read. Like that’s conflicting to me, or at least it is in how he’s presenting both arguments in his ISO depending on when/who’s asking. Really don’t like 527 where he says his meta read on garmr as “his town games are more like just pulling on a thread rather doggedly irrelevant if he is right or wrong at that time” — which I think is what makes sense from garmr here given how he’s been pursuing tchill, regardless of whether you agree with him on tchill!scum or not. Plus the way he’s trying to shade skitt for not having read him correctly in the past. Idk the whole thing sits wrong, plus I’m willing to sheep garmr/skitt to a certain extent. Especially if skitt is more town than scum, which she is, then I trust her instincts

[Menalque]

I’m inclined to read robb as tunnelled on past me rather than scummy, but I haven’t actually read their interactions to see if that would be warranted by past me’s behaviour

I’ll try to look at that with some priority

[Menalque]

Garmr i think you didn’t answer me yet about how strongly you feel about tchill v bob?

[Menalque]

Here’s where I’m at more or less. I haven’t had a chance to catch up and as I’m shortly gonna drive to Geneva I may not be fully caught up by deadline either.

That said, I quite like reading off the first pages anyway.

So, I’m inclined to say garmr is town, has actually been engaging with people, giving reads, pushing shit, from a brief ISO skim. I’d ideally meta him but for now he can be town.

Skitt is just always provisionally town until she’s scum. I have like mild concerns about her but not enough to put her in my bottom 3 which means she stays as town for today.

Robb comes across as mildly townie from the early pages, although I find him really hard to read and maybe I’m just reading him not being toxic for once as him being town? But again, there are scummier people so he’s town by PoE.

I’m town, duh doy.

Wake is really null but townier than anyone left, so he’s in town.

Then creature is mildly scummy from hectic slot but still not actually in my top 3 scum so he also gets to be town for now. Also find him a nightmare to read, same as hectic. Not really sorting there.

****

BEF is like my loosest SR in that I’m not actually sure I’m SRing him. I just didn’t like him suggesting early on that rob/hectic was theatre, didn’t like his reason for leaving his vote on wake post RVS, but neither are really reasons to be scum exactly. Felt like he was making excuses to not do stuff right at the beginning but there’re enough posts in his ISO that I guess he has at least been posting even if I don’t know how much merit those posts have yet.

Tchill is when we start to get into actual SR territory. Didn’t like 60 where he suggests that “any decent scum [would] pour fire on this flame” which seems to me to be pretty LAMIST in a manipulative way. Like “any scum would do this please notice how I’m doing the very opposite”. Just sits with me wrong.
Also agree with my predecessor that he was fence sitty on rob/hectic. For instance in 58 when he talks about how hectic is always scummy and he won’t defend him if he gets run up, while treating them both as town in 60 where he’s asking them to both tone it down so town stands a better chance of winning

Bob is also scummy imo. Feels like he’s chainsawing garmr for his read on tchill, while also claiming it’s a meta read. Like that’s conflicting to me, or at least it is in how he’s presenting both arguments in his ISO depending on when/who’s asking. Really don’t like 527 where he says his meta read on garmr as “his town games are more like just pulling on a thread rather doggedly irrelevant if he is right or wrong at that time” — which I think is what makes sense from garmr here given how he’s been pursuing tchill, regardless of whether you agree with him on tchill!scum or not. Plus the way he’s trying to shade skitt for not having read him correctly in the past. Idk the whole thing sits wrong, plus I’m willing to sheep garmr/skitt to a certain extent. Especially if skitt is more town than scum, which she is, then I trust her instincts

I think I want to BREAK this neck.

And you will point exactly why.

What you just said rings hollow to me, and I will have your head today.

VOTE: Menalque

I have no idea what this sentence means

Why does what I said ring hollow?

[Menalque]

What do you mean by « influenced by the schedule » garmr?

[Menalque]

@creature why is bef the most likely to flip scum ?

[Menalque]

Mena i'm not sure i like this readslist

Okay, why not?

[Menalque]

Mena i'm not sure i like this readslist

Okay, why not?

Eh actually I think I can probably see why but I was writing it with the thought in mind that I’m quite likely the designated mislynch today so it was more aimed at being totally honest than trying to actually appear towny and avoid the mislynch

[Menalque]

ng on a thread rather doggedly irrelevant

So you read on me is mostly dependant on tchill beign scum. So if tchill ever flipped town how woudl you read on me change. And what makes you so sure that even if tchill is scuma and garmr. That i must be scum chainsawing garmr rather than just a townie scum reading garmr due to feeling from his meta.

No, i wouldn’t say it’s mostly dependant on that but you’d look a lot worse if tchill is scum

Like I said I also think your process is contradictory on garmr. The reasons you’ve given for meta SRing him don’t like up with how I think he’s playing this game

I also think you’re intentionally mischaracterising my argument, if maybe not exactly misrepping me — “what makes you so sure” I never said “oh man tchill is scum here like 80% of the time guys you’d better fucking sheep me on this” and my garmr TR is similarly mollified by my description

[Menalque]

Like if you wanna criticise me for something criticise me for leaving enough room in my reads to pivot which I would get but like the angle you’re going for is just weird

[Menalque]

Here’s where I’m at more or less. I haven’t had a chance to catch up and as I’m shortly gonna drive to Geneva I may not be fully caught up by deadline either.

That said, I quite like reading off the first pages anyway.

So, I’m inclined to say garmr is town, has actually been engaging with people, giving reads, pushing shit, from a brief ISO skim. I’d ideally meta him but for now he can be town.

Skitt is just always provisionally town until she’s scum. I have like mild concerns about her but not enough to put her in my bottom 3 which means she stays as town for today.

Robb comes across as mildly townie from the early pages, although I find him really hard to read and maybe I’m just reading him not being toxic for once as him being town? But again, there are scummier people so he’s town by PoE.

I’m town, duh doy.

Wake is really null but townier than anyone left, so he’s in town.

Then creature is mildly scummy from hectic slot but still not actually in my top 3 scum so he also gets to be town for now. Also find him a nightmare to read, same as hectic. Not really sorting there.

****

BEF is like my loosest SR in that I’m not actually sure I’m SRing him. I just didn’t like him suggesting early on that rob/hectic was theatre, didn’t like his reason for leaving his vote on wake post RVS, but neither are really reasons to be scum exactly. Felt like he was making excuses to not do stuff right at the beginning but there’re enough posts in his ISO that I guess he has at least been posting even if I don’t know how much merit those posts have yet.

Tchill is when we start to get into actual SR territory. Didn’t like 60 where he suggests that “any decent scum [would] pour fire on this flame” which seems to me to be pretty LAMIST in a manipulative way. Like “any scum would do this please notice how I’m doing the very opposite”. Just sits with me wrong.
Also agree with my predecessor that he was fence sitty on rob/hectic. For instance in 58 when he talks about how hectic is always scummy and he won’t defend him if he gets run up, while treating them both as town in 60 where he’s asking them to both tone it down so town stands a better chance of winning

Bob is also scummy imo. Feels like he’s chainsawing garmr for his read on tchill, while also claiming it’s a meta read. Like that’s conflicting to me, or at least it is in how he’s presenting both arguments in his ISO depending on when/who’s asking. Really don’t like 527 where he says his meta read on garmr as “his town games are more like just pulling on a thread rather doggedly irrelevant if he is right or wrong at that time” — which I think is what makes sense from garmr here given how he’s been pursuing tchill, regardless of whether you agree with him on tchill!scum or not. Plus the way he’s trying to shade skitt for not having read him correctly in the past. Idk the whole thing sits wrong, plus I’m willing to sheep garmr/skitt to a certain extent. Especially if skitt is more town than scum, which she is, then I trust her instincts

I think I want to BREAK this neck.

And you will point exactly why.

What you just said rings hollow to me, and I will have your head today.

VOTE: Menalque

I have no idea what this sentence means

Why does what I said ring hollow?

[Menalque]

If ur town then sorry but I think these are both rly bad posts

I dont go for angles i go for questions shaped to try and get better under standing of your alignment. After you can tell someone's alignment best when they just been tripped and even if they have seen the wire and have carefully stepped over it.

Im not so sure on my meta read on garmr any more. I hope to get more into this game as ive had trouble getting into the swing of things.

Okay so I’ll hear you out on this but like it doesn’t feel like your read on garmr was a particularly considered read if you’re rethinking it based on me saying it doesn’t make sense and imo you’re trying to back off a fake read you can’t justify. This is doubly bad considering how much you’ve talked to and about garmr that this is what’s making you reconsider him

Why exactly are you reconsidering garmr meta read?

mm im finding it very suspect that teh lead wagon was umvoted by skitter. And skitter and that slot have both ended up on me. Looks to me like I am acting as the couter wagon to rapid nom menal slot. Is menal scum with scum trying to form a counter wagon. or town not liking the menal wagon and trying to form a counter wagon but unfortunately just picking another townie.

Will have to look at skitters reasons for no long voting menals slot tommorrow

So we’re potentially both scum trying to start a wagon on you or we’re both town trying to start a counter wagon to town!me

This just doesn’t feel like real analysis to me

Why can’t I be scum acting in self preservation? Why is it likely that in a scenario of (skitt, me) as the team we both jump on you this transparently and immediately? Why can’t skitt be scum who’s making a bad push on you intentionally that town!me has fallen for?

If any of these were particularly less likely than the two theories you’d laid out, I’d get dismissing them. But I think you just picked two arbitrary possibilities which fypov aren’t any more likely than the others to look like you’re scum hunting and doing analysis

[Menalque]

If I get lynched while I’m asleep probably look at wake more closely if he hasn’t given a decent explanation by that point

[Menalque]

Err

[Menalque]

I think that’s already hammered?

[Menalque]

Wait nvm I saw rob had changed his vote and thought it was also onto bob

[Menalque]

Wake claimed vig which is pretty confirmable so nobody will probably look at him if 2 kills happen. You got stuck in a shit slot. Rabid confirmed himself as scum and you’re supposed to try and town it up. You aren’t towning it up.

I had a question about this

I know you’re reading me (incorrectly) based on whatever the fuck happened with rabid

So fine, you’re tunnelled, I still think you’re on balance town who’s just tunnelled incorrectly although I guess you might be scum who’d already committed but whatever, the main thing I wanna know is why you think I’m not towny? Like what is it that you object to about my content specifically?

[Menalque]

How is that proof of anything? In what ways have I not been sorting?

[Menalque]

The fact you don’t know why I scum read your predecessor is proof alone you aren’t townie. No real attempts to sort anyone either.

That's hardly fair.

Sure it is. It means he hasn’t read the game. His reads are fake cause he would have to read the game and if he did he’d know why I scum read him.

Doesn’t matter. What rabid did is confirmed scum. If the people in this game can’t see it then i guess we’ll lose.

I mean how is not having read the game proof of anything? I’ve read 7 pages and I’ve read everything since I joined

Why is town!me more likely to read the game than scum!me?

My reads are not fake, even if they’re limited from a lack of information

[Menalque]

How is that proof of anything? In what ways have I not been sorting?

You haven’t once tried to interact with me until now. I see no evidence in your iso to suggest you sorting anything.

Right but I have interacted with garmr, skitt, wake, bob and to a lesser extent with BEF

Why is the fact that I hadn’t gotten around to you yet scum!indicative?

It’s very easy to assert that there’s no evidence in my iso to suggest that I’m sorting because I can’t ask you to prove a negative but let me quote a few posts

[Menalque]

The fact you don’t know why I scum read your predecessor is proof alone you aren’t townie. No real attempts to sort anyone either.

That's hardly fair.

Sure it is. It means he hasn’t read the game. His reads are fake cause he would have to read the game and if he did he’d know why I scum read him.

Doesn’t matter. What rabid did is confirmed scum. If the people in this game can’t see it then i guess we’ll lose.

I mean how is not having read the game proof of anything? I’ve read 7 pages and I’ve read everything since I joined

Why is town!me more likely to read the game than scum!me?

My reads are not fake, even if they’re limited from a lack of information

I'd like to know who you top Scumread and top Townread currently is, please.

Garmr and bob

[Menalque]

Don’t waste your time. My read on you is unchangeable

That is the definition of tunnelled

And I’m not so much trying to change your read as I’m trying to decide if you’re deliberately ignoring contrary evidence because you’re scum who wants to lynch me or if you’re town who’s so far down the rabbit hole that he genuinely can’t see it

[Menalque]

I believe he hasn’t site flaked but maybe thanksgiving stuff?

[Menalque]

Wake why did you claim vig?

[Menalque]

Are you gated?

[Menalque]

Okay also why do you not trust your own judgement?

[Menalque]

Are you unlimited in shots or do you only have a certain number?

And I’m asking because you seemed like very confident that I was scum after I posted my thoughts on the game and that seems odd from someone who’s apparently not that trusting in their own judgement?

[Menalque]

[snip]

Bob is also scummy imo. Feels like he’s chainsawing garmr for his read on tchill, while also claiming it’s a meta read. Like that’s conflicting to me, or at least it is in how he’s presenting both arguments in his ISO depending on when/who’s asking. Really don’t like 527 where he says his meta read on garmr as “his town games are more like just pulling on a thread rather doggedly irrelevant if he is right or wrong at that time” — which I think is what makes sense from garmr here given how he’s been pursuing tchill, regardless of whether you agree with him on tchill!scum or not. Plus the way he’s trying to shade skitt for not having read him correctly in the past. Idk the whole thing sits wrong, plus I’m willing to sheep garmr/skitt to a certain extent. Especially if skitt is more town than scum, which she is, then I trust her instincts

ng on a thread rather doggedly irrelevant

So you read on me is mostly dependant on tchill beign scum. So if tchill ever flipped town how woudl you read on me change. And what makes you so sure that even if tchill is scuma and garmr. That i must be scum chainsawing garmr rather than just a townie scum reading garmr due to feeling from his meta.

No, i wouldn’t say it’s mostly dependant on that but you’d look a lot worse if tchill is scum

Like I said I also think your process is contradictory on garmr. The reasons you’ve given for meta SRing him don’t like up with how I think he’s playing this game

I also think you’re intentionally mischaracterising my argument, if maybe not exactly misrepping me — “what makes you so sure” I never said “oh man tchill is scum here like 80% of the time guys you’d better fucking sheep me on this” and my garmr TR is similarly mollified by my description

If ur town then sorry but I think these are both rly bad posts

I dont go for angles i go for questions shaped to try and get better under standing of your alignment. After you can tell someone's alignment best when they just been tripped and even if they have seen the wire and have carefully stepped over it.

Im not so sure on my meta read on garmr any more. I hope to get more into this game as ive had trouble getting into the swing of things.

Okay so I’ll hear you out on this but like it doesn’t feel like your read on garmr was a particularly considered read if you’re rethinking it based on me saying it doesn’t make sense and imo you’re trying to back off a fake read you can’t justify. This is doubly bad considering how much you’ve talked to and about garmr that this is what’s making you reconsider him

Why exactly are you reconsidering garmr meta read?

mm im finding it very suspect that teh lead wagon was umvoted by skitter. And skitter and that slot have both ended up on me. Looks to me like I am acting as the couter wagon to rapid nom menal slot. Is menal scum with scum trying to form a counter wagon. or town not liking the menal wagon and trying to form a counter wagon but unfortunately just picking another townie.

Will have to look at skitters reasons for no long voting menals slot tommorrow

So we’re potentially both scum trying to start a wagon on you or we’re both town trying to start a counter wagon to town!me

This just doesn’t feel like real analysis to me

Why can’t I be scum acting in self preservation? Why is it likely that in a scenario of (skitt, me) as the team we both jump on you this transparently and immediately? Why can’t skitt be scum who’s making a bad push on you intentionally that town!me has fallen for?

If any of these were particularly less likely than the two theories you’d laid out, I’d get dismissing them. But I think you just picked two arbitrary possibilities which fypov aren’t any more likely than the others to look like you’re scum hunting and doing analysis

Why are these bad reasons to SR bob @robb

[Menalque]

I mean I think I’m doing the opposite of alienating you

Why are my reasons for a bob lynch uncompelling?

[Menalque]

Mena i'm not sure i like this readslist

Okay, why not?

It's kinda overexplained

why overexplained as opposed to just 'explained'?

[Menalque]

Mena i actually kinda want to vote you tho

okay, why tho? I mean even if you're not sold on town!me yet I'm kinda surprised that you think I'm a good option to vote as I'd expect you to be p confident in reading me correctly as the game goes on

[Menalque]

like one thing there's been way too much of from the very little I've seen of this game is people failing to provide any back up for what they think or what they wanna do which makes it much easier for scum to hide

[Menalque]

Are you unlimited in shots or do you only have a certain number?

And I’m asking because you seemed like very confident that I was scum after I posted my thoughts on the game and that seems odd from someone who’s apparently not that trusting in their own judgement?

Unlimited.

I don't think you're familiar with my playstyle. It's part of how I Scumhunt.

Being very trusting of one's own judgement is the Achille's heel of many a Town player.

correct, I'm not familiar with you or your playstyle

so what are you thinking now?

I think it's situational tbh -- "whosoever desires constant success must change their conduct with the times"

[Menalque]

I mean I think I’m doing the opposite of alienating you

Why are my reasons for a bob lynch uncompelling?

Your predecessor did. You I just don’t like irregardless of the game.

I issued an open challenge to everyone to explain rabid’s actions as townie. Nobody can. That makes my reasons the most compelling. If nobody can townsplain them, that makes them the most compelling reasons.

I mean we’ve played together exactly once but cool man

Also that’s like

Not how it works

Just because you’re insisting on something and no one has done that thing doesn’t automatically prove you right

[Menalque]

Mena i'm not sure i like this readslist

Okay, why not?

It's kinda overexplained

why overexplained as opposed to just 'explained'?

Because your bef, creature, and bob reads feel more like u had to slot them somewhere and so made up reasons for them than like you actually have those reads

I don’t think this is entirely fair, I’ve been pretty open about the fact that I’m not caught up and there was limited posting from those apart from hectic in the first few pages of the game and I haven’t seen a lot from them since I joined either

I don’t see why it’s invalid to say “I know there can be only X scum in this game, so even if I’m not TRing someone I SR (or TR less) these other people so I’m defaulting them to town for now

Other than that I can’t really say anything other than those are legit the reads I have with the information I have so far *shrug*

[Menalque]

Mena i actually kinda want to vote you tho

okay, why tho? I mean even if you're not sold on town!me yet I'm kinda surprised that you think I'm a good option to vote as I'd expect you to be p confident in reading me correctly as the game goes on

Because your pred was scummy and i'm not convinced your town

Notice how i didnt say i want to lynch you tho .... i do think you're probably a better sort for later days but i'm conflicted and havent made up my mind yet

I mean wanting to vote me is wanting to lynch me de facto given deadline pressure

[Menalque]

You should choose tho because we need to lynch today

I’d strongly prefer it to be bob obv but if not then change

[Menalque]

Bob is also scummy imo. Feels like he’s chainsawing garmr for his read on tchill,

Your predecessor’s entire attack on me was a chainsaw defense of hectic. He then claims it was fake and he was sorting me. His read on me died when people started looking elsewhere.

That’s opportunistic scum who did a 180 with no natural progression other than people weren’t into lynching me anymore.

I mean I’ll have to look through his posts myself but my instinct is to say that something else was happening there other than what you perceived given my role pm

[Menalque]

its not based on a game we played but one I’ve read. We can discuss it another time. This isn’t the time or place.

Sure

[Menalque]

I mean wanting to vote me is wanting to lynch me de facto given deadline pressure

Well no, i want to vote to indicate that i dislike your posting but i dont necessarily want you lynched

Well if I don’t get mislynched or vig’d then we can talk about what you dislike tomorrow bc I’m p sure that if you’re town as well we’ll be able to find each other with a decent chance to interact

[Menalque]

I don’t see why it’s invalid to say “I know there can be only X scum in this game, so even if I’m not TRing someone I SR (or TR less) these other people so I’m defaulting them to town for now

Is this a method you've used to rank/sort people in other games?

I think so yeah

I’m gonna have dinner in a sec but I can look for where after if you like?

[Menalque]

I don’t see why it’s invalid to say “I know there can be only X scum in this game, so even if I’m not TRing someone I SR (or TR less) these other people so I’m defaulting them to town for now

Is this a method you've used to rank/sort people in other games?

I think so yeah

I’m gonna have dinner in a sec but I can look for where after if you like?

Yes please, whe you have a chance, i'm not sure i've ever seen you do that before

And ideally i'd like people to claim before we lynch them

here we go, including one case of me doing it in a game you modded, plus a couple of me doing it in a game we played together

I'll say this: I haven't made it explicit as often as I thought I had while looking through my games, but it's often been a thought process of mine when I've been struggling to sort people but had stronger SRs

Spoiler:

Subject: Newbie 1949 - Game Over!

PoE basically

You’re playing like town

Creature is playing consistent with his towngame (i.e. he’s not really here right now) and his PoE makes sense from his point of view

Roster is null because he hasn’t done anything

Spark is null because he hasn’t posted

Korina is scummy for the bad push and misreps

Billy is kinda scummy for the vote and cause I trust creature’s reads enough to think he’s better than randodds

Grimm is either awful town or just scum

If scum is in my 3 scum reads, claim is town

unless we think there are 4 scum in this set up, which honestly seems like too much, then I think jjh/chem/mast all likely town

then I have a TR on eth0s

elbirn I liked end of D2 but a lot less today

adorable is quite empty but I like more today

so there's probably the 2 scum in (TL, suji, elbirn, adorbs) and that's the order I wanna lynch in for now

Subject: Newbie 1951 (Day 4)

Unless I come round to emps v fark as TvT in which case selynee would go into my scumpool

Subject: Newbie 1951 (Day 4)

I am okay with lynching in (fark, creeper) for today

strongly prefer creeper

readslist

selynee -- the fakehammer was towny, lack of content but there is clear attempt to scum hunt there even if it's not great, has got to more or less the same place that I have re:reads
teacher (conditional on fark!scum)
NMSA -- actually townier than I realised, bc I don't think the creeper read is distancing based on the way he's actually been pushing it, I think it's genuine
sushi -- more or less but I've never seen sushi!scum, although she's claimed she's bad at scum when she was town

skitt -- absolutely hasn't done anything that I think is truly AI. absolutely not lynching her today
emps -- just feel like there's something wrong here and I doubt I got both scum on D1 and he feels worse after the others? I wouldn't wanna lynch him unless I could figure out a reason for why his posts have been making me feel iffy about him tho

fark -- playing bad, I feel like everyone else is townier, I'm not gonna not lynch here just bc they might be mislynch bait

creeper -- trash ISO. not lurking or anything, he's in the game but contributing absolutely nothing. when he's been questioned about that he's been evasive, but he hasn't come across in the way I would expect nervous town to (see: sushi in 1938)

[Menalque]

probably would have been more accurate to say that people were null rather than actually town but that wasn't exactly a readslist so eh

[Menalque]

So we have 2 people at L-1 right now and neither t has claimed?

no one in the position to hammer has asked me to claim

[Menalque]

Wait to hammer. The menal wagon looks better. There isn’t a single townie player on the bob wagon.

I agree. But I don't want a NL.

why do you agree there's not a single townie player on the bob wagon, and why is my wagon better when I'm p sure you said you were voting me -- by your own admission -- because you were sheeping your TRs rather than actually SRing me?

[Menalque]

okay why are none of the players on the bob wagon townie?

[Menalque]

okay why are none of the players on the bob wagon townie?

Going by math alone there has got to be town on both wagons. There is no way we have a 4 player scum team.

okay yes, obviously, that's still not really answering the question

rob said "none of the players on the bob wagon are townie"

you said "I agree"

I want you to explain why you agree with that assessment

[Menalque]

okay seeing as we're at crunch time why is my lynch still preferable to bob? what's your actual take on my play beyond what your TRs think?

[Menalque]

I mean I think gut is part of it sure, but I don't think a lack of flips stops anyone from trying to analysis whether or not someone's posts seem to have a particular agenda to them (for instance redirecting from one place to another, inculcating a sense of confusion/chaos etc) or if they're pushing logic that seems obviously bad, or acting in ways that are out of line with their stated beliefs

so I don't think everyone is basing their reads on gut, or at least I think that's only a factor for many of us, and given that that's the case I'd like more from you if you're voting me than "he doesn't feel right"

[Menalque]

how confident are you in bob!town, rob?

[Menalque]

also, you scum read Garmr, no?

[Menalque]

well seeing as your top 2 SRs are apparently first in line to get vig'd if he flips town and you're not that confident anyway idk why you're not declaring intent

unless you're gonna be online literally until deadline and you're hoping that tchill turns up before then and votes me

[Menalque]

let's get one thing straight: the only way you know anything is if you're scum so stop preaching that bullshit line

[Menalque]

skitt can you update me on what you think of Robb if you're online before deadline?

[Menalque]

yo creature do you still wanna lynch BEF?

[Menalque]

you're really not gonna like this skit but as of page 17 I no longer SR tchill

[Menalque]

at this point I'd rather lynch (bef, Robb) than bob I think but idk if we'll have enough people online to get it through

[Menalque]

yo creature do you still wanna lynch BEF?

idk, I just want a lynch to happen, but I townread your predecessor

you don't TR me?

[Menalque]

I'd rather lynch BEF than Robb but like the more I read the more convinced I am that Robb is scum who's faking a tunnel

[Menalque]

reminds me of how I would play scum a couple of games ago

i.e. insist that something is objectively scummy (because there's some leeway to say that it is) then hammer that point repeatedly and without stopping

I think it quite often gets townies to think you're just tunnelled but actually it lets you just relentlessly pursue someone and avoid doing any scumhunting

[Menalque]

I wish I'd arrived in this game earlier

[Menalque]

But you’re just a bully who doesn’t actually care about people’s feelings so no surprise you’re just making stuff up.

first up you don't know me so I'm gonna ignore this

I don’t even need anything else but that. However rabid gave me much more to work with. You have to improve your slot. You didn’t.

I've very obviously improved my slot, to the point where the entirety of why I'm scum according to you has been based on my predecessor and not on my play. At a minimum, that means you don't think my play is as scummy as his or you'd be pushing it

reminds me of how I would play scum a couple of games ago

i.e. insist that something is objectively scummy (because there's some leeway to say that it is) then hammer that point repeatedly and without stopping

I think it quite often gets townies to think you're just tunnelled but actually it lets you just relentlessly pursue someone and avoid doing any scumhunting

Except nothing I’m saying about your predecessor is objectively scummy.

When three people say the same thing and your predecessor scum reads only one person for it and accuses me of misrepping and not the other two.

That isn’t objectively scummy. That’s actually scummy.

He was clearly wk’ing the other two.

what's the distinction you're drawing here?

I'm saying that you're saying that "anyone who does this thing is scummy and/or scum"

I'm saying that thing may not be exactly pro-town and the justification may be weak but it doesn't make the person scum (which I happen to know to be the case in this context)

so it looks to me like you're looking for things you think you can push and then pushing them relentlessly without considering the context they were done within and whether it could be true

[Menalque]

And if I was actually pushing objectively scummy things you’d have brought them up already. You already said you were going to make me a priority which was a lie. So that’s two lies you’ve told.

apart from I'm only actually reading the game today?

[Menalque]

feel good about skitt!town due to mind melding with her in catchup when she had no way of knowing I was joining this game and so couldn't have been trying to buddy me

sadly she's not gonna feel good about this when she gets back after C9++ but eh

other than BEF I think I'm pretty in agreement as of p20

[Menalque]

he was, yeah

[Menalque]

skitt, me, Garmr, creature

[Menalque]

off

[Menalque]

oof

ebwop

[Menalque]

lol what

Garmr why did you self hammer?

[Menalque]

This felt v town sided as a setup

Seems super shitty to give scum a strongman if there’s no doc, that’s so misleading

And honestly an ungated vig is just a bad idea in a micro, but if you have one played well then you DEFINITELY don’t need an FN too

[Menalque]

But GGs I guess

Thanks Cyrus for modding, sorry your first game got toxic at points

[Menalque]

No idea Cyrus, sorry

[Menalque]

Happy with my reads on BEF, skitt, creature

I think my read on robb was reasonable even if it was wrong

Was quite happy with my read on tchill but was kind of unsure in lylo

Bob I didn’t really want to lynch but he was better than me as I knew my alignment and didn’t know his

Not sure why I misread garmr so hard. Partly because I was under time pressure after rep in and needed to eliminate suspects — I think I would have voted him in lylo, even though I never would have on D2

[Menalque]

Did you design this Cyrus? I thought it was predesigned by callforjudgement?

[Menalque]

So much skitter paranoia in dead thread lol

Also, you didn’t mean to? I’m so confused haha

[Menalque]

lol what

Garmr why did you self hammer?

Oh nvm, tchill was conftown for not hammering skitt so when he voted it was just a matter of time

[Menalque]

So much skitter paranoia in dead thread lol

Also, you didn’t mean to? I’m so confused haha

i didn't know i was to use their role pms so i grab roles from the normal wikki made sure there was 5 town but thought vig would be cool and fn would help just in case scum killed vig on day 1 then also stoung man makes doc jk and everything else point less so i thought i would make a redd hearin .

Okay this is kinda funny although I do feel bad for scum

[Menalque]

I mean, you weren’t cleared robb, scum was the one who claimed you’d FN’d them

Given how weird you both played around the claim plus your death tunnel the shot was the most reasonable thing, not game throwing

[Menalque]

It was a bold move to not kill wake when he said he was 50/50 on shooting you

[Menalque]

@cyrus the scum pt is still locked

[Menalque]

I think the problem with a vig in 9p is that it prevents a scum quick hammer in mylo

[Menalque]

Oh, you just need to fix the link then I think

The link is to the edit section, which we won’t have access to

[Menalque]

I rly think you should have strongmanned wake tbh

[Menalque]

umm stoung man makes it to where your shot cant be blocked thats all.

Yeah I meant if they were working under the assumption of there being a doc/jk

[Menalque]

i think it's bef/garmr

This is exactly why I would have voted garmr lol

[Menalque]

lol

[Menalque]

Skitt do you think I was right to be TRing you here?

[Menalque]

On D1 I mean

[Menalque]

Idk I feel like the approach of sorting you later is reasonable generally

I guess maybe I should have just been town leaning you? But I think mindmelding with you has been a p valid way to tell that you’re town in the past so long as I wasn’t in the game when you made the posts I mindmelded with