Mini Normal 2111 [Game Over!]

[Sujimichi]

Hi everyone!

I typically like to catch up before making any comments, but it appears that we are close to the deadline for the day. Is there anything in particular that I should focus on as I do a quick read through?

[Sujimichi]

UNVOTE:

Ok. Thanks.

[Sujimichi]

I’m a Disloyal Announcing PT Cop.

Why did you say you were Loud, not Announcing? You also claimed that you would be able to prove yourself via your "Loud" modifier at some point (post 255); however, your subsequent claim of "disloyal" means that, if we assume you are town, it will only announce itself to Mafia who, if you are not a part of, would have no rationale for supporting your claim. I don't understand this.

[Sujimichi]

@skitter30 and UnaBombaH

: You both had a strong suspicion that Flavor Leaf's initial claim was not true prior to their being any reason to think so. Why is this?

[Sujimichi]

Plus you feel somewhat linked to TikTok

I will support this statement. I felt the same upon quick read through.

[Sujimichi]

Plus you feel somewhat linked to TikTok

I will support this statement. I felt the same upon quick read through.

And huh

It is not a strong feeling, or I would push it further. It came about after tactic posted one of their long posts for which you seemed to think was a basis for them being scum read, and you provided feedback for them to start posting in shorter posts to get their points across (778), which they then began doing. Without day talk in this game, it came across as advice to a partner. In addition, you did not get the tictac wagon (547) despite them being fairly far down in your town read confidence. One would assume a weak town read means that there are reasons for them to come across as Mafia to others and become the subject of the wagon.

As I said, it is not a strong feeling, but I felt inclined to support another person who came to the same conclusion.

[Sujimichi]

i don’t think the thing about shorter posts was wrt to being scumread i thought it was just readability?

I linked directly to skitter30's post 778 in which she stated:

@tictac your posts might be received better if you like broke them into chunks and posted them separately

I don't know how to interpret "your posts might be received better" if not as "you may be less scum read." I certainly don't think it refers to the readability.

[Sujimichi]

That still supports my thoughts with regard to linkage; however, as I stated, it is not strong so I don't think that spending more time debating the particulars is going to be useful currently.

[Sujimichi]

I've seen your reasoning for Dunnstral, and after a quick scan, I do not disagree. What is your reasoning for Garmr?

[Sujimichi]

I've seen your reasoning for Dunnstral, and after a quick scan, I do not disagree. What is your reasoning for Garmr?

i ISO'd skit and she has no reasoning on Dunn
what reasoning are you talking about

from what i can tell she just went from

I dont understand the dunn wagon

to

town: maybe dunn

to

Dunn is scummy

with no explanation

@skit - i'll consider it rn but it's not a top choice so if i can idk.. actually use my brain... i might want something else?
will reread now

It's on this page:

He's interacting with the thread weirdly, and being like ~at the edges~ without contributing anything meaningful

Or, in your parlance, he isnt being solvey

[Sujimichi]

I’m building a true claiming meta lately, so

I’m town. Just remember what I said after I flip.


Also, anyone who calls me lazy and then pushes as scum, is obviously scum

Could you please answer my question regarding the discrepancy in your claims?

[Sujimichi]

I’m a Disloyal Announcing PT Cop.

Why did you say you were Loud, not Announcing? You also claimed that you would be able to prove yourself via your "Loud" modifier at some point (post 255); however, your subsequent claim of "disloyal" means that, if we assume you are town, it will only announce itself to Mafia who, if you are not a part of, would have no rationale for supporting your claim. I don't understand this.

[Sujimichi]

They mean two different things, and it doesn’t explain how you are going to prove yourself via your modifier if it only works on scum.

[Sujimichi]

I am unaware of your meta so appealing to it does not mean anything to me.

[Sujimichi]

Yes. Those are the points that I have raised and asked clarification on from Flavor Leaf.

[Sujimichi]

I know, I think they're worth lynching him over as it shows he's lying

Do you not think there is an explanation that he could provide? While I don’t understand the discrepancy in his claims, I also don’t understand his rationale for claiming in the first place.

[Sujimichi]

Wake please stop, you really don’t seem to get it
Yes he claimed Loud earlier, but the earlier claim WASN’T HIS FULL CLAIM. In fact I recall his wording being something like “Loud elements”, which very much includes Announcing.

No. He said “I am Loud” and also stated that he would be able to prove his role via this modifier (post 255). This does not mesh with his later claim to be Disloyal, which is what I questioned him about.

It seems he has since returned and has no intent to answer my question.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Sujimichi]

I seem pretty sure about what?

[Sujimichi]

It is a problem, but it is not the crux of the problem. That lies with his statement that he would be able to prove his role through the modifier originally, and then being unable to do so with his later claim, coupled with the fact that he refuses to discuss this discrepancy.

My only issue is that his claim, to begin with, makes little to no sense; but, again, he refuses to discuss that.

[Sujimichi]

As I previously stated, I am not aware of Flavor Leaf's meta so appealing to it does not mean anything to me. You disagree with my foundation, yet still, conclude that there is a problem. What is the problem from your viewpoint?

[Sujimichi]

That would solve my reservation regarding the rationale for him claiming at the time that he claimed.

Thank you.

[Sujimichi]

What do you think of garmr, wake, and gamma?

• Garmr
  : I do not have too much of an opinion on Garmr at this time, but I disagree with his stance on Flavor Leaf. You originally indicated to me that you did not like the points Garmr was making regarding Gamma Emerald and yourself, and later stated that you felt the Wake88 came across poorly in his interaction with Garmr. Do you find Garmr or Wake88 to be worse, and do you believe that both of them could be Mafia?
  
• Wake88
  : Wake88 has been surprisingly absent (even with consideration to the V/LA) considering he is an original player. I do not like his burst catch up, as it comes across as an assertion that he is reading and contributing thoughts, but in reality, he is saying words without much thought or reasoning behind them (968, 970, 991, 993). His questions (such as in 963, 965, 975) come across as questions asking to look like he's asking, but I do not think he really cares about the follow up. Admittedly though, he has not had much time to wait for responses, so that is more of an internal feeling). I would place him toward the lower end of my current reads.
  
• Gamma Emerald
  : I like that we had similar thoughts regarding yours and tictac's slots being somewhat linked together. I do not like his defensiveness of Flavor Leaf, and I have made note of that for later reference. Overall, however, he is interacting and trying to understand alignments. I would place him toward the bottom-top of my current reads.

[Sujimichi]

I seem pretty sure about what?

Your vote

I wouldn't have placed it unless I had reasonable certainty, and I believe that I have explained my rationale. Skitter30 has since reasoned away my sole concern.

[Sujimichi]

In case this was lost in my post:

Do you find Garmr or Wake88 to be worse, and do you believe that both of them could be Mafia?

[Sujimichi]

I'd rather us pressure dunn rn

Why is this? He doesn't seem like he is reacting to much of anything. Would you prefer a Dunnstral lynch or a Flavor Leaf lynch because from your stated opinions you seem to be more certain of Flavor Leaf as Mafia?

[Sujimichi]

Wake looks ... incredibly bad in his fight with garmr. I'm thinking of switching to voting him

* fight with gamma i meant

I'm aware of these posts. It doesn't explicitly answer my question of which you find worse (although I can infer you find Wake88 worse since you were thinking of voting him), and it doesn't answer whether or not you think both of them could be Mafia.

[Sujimichi]

i am thinking of leashing him though if we don't lynch him today

What does this mean, and how do we ensure that it is done?

oh i thought you were thinking i was talking about a wake/garmr fight, which is what i did write, but i meant to write wake/gamma. i don't have any particular thoughts on wake/garmr interactions

Apologies. I made an error when typing my response. Thank you for clarifying.

[Sujimichi]

UNVOTE:

[Sujimichi]

i think at least two scum are in {wake/garmr/dunn/flavor},

I'd want him to check in this group ^
Preferably wake

With the understanding that even if he guilties someone who is, in fact, mafia, he is not cleared

Honestly as i write this out i'm not sure it's worth the effort

If you still would not trust him after he returns a guilty, your plan has no benefit in terms of understanding alignment.

[Sujimichi]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Sujimichi]

You are creating a lot of noise that is not useful in helping understand your alignment.

[Sujimichi]

Apologies. I am here, and will do a quick catch up. I will be fairly inactive until after tomorrow is over, however.

[Sujimichi]

VOTE: january

[Sujimichi]

I disagree. She comes across as not actually trying to determine others’ alignment; she is reactionary; and, her waffling around Flavor Leaf at the end of yesterday was suspect. I also did not like her recent interaction with Garmr surrounding his fake claim (which I also do not like).

[Sujimichi]

You weren’t waffling in your lack of wanting Flavor Leaf lynched (until your last post, which was odd given your previous posts). You were waffling in your read, and kept it (intentionally, I believe) in the center.

Spoiler:

Not really, fuck your weird ass claims

do it again next game pls

one day they will learn

@Dunn - I only think about repercussions when I’m scum. Town I just do whatever comes into my mind

doubt this is totally true
but once again i don't think it's coming from scum

Yeah i'm basically at the point where i dont think i'd hammer but i wouldnt prevent other people from doing it

almost this
but i actually DO want to stop people from doing it

saudade wanna agree on a different wagon
pls

I was actually going to say i changed my mind on FL at around #1122
mostly due to the stuff about "i'm too scummy and i don't act like this as mafia"

but i like his last few pages way too much
i think the part about being "too scummy" was just him taking a gambit that just... really didn't work out
now sure this can be extra-next-next-level play but i don't think it's worth lynching him today either way

just curious though - why do you expect to live after claiming some sort of PR regardless?

Which is what I was trying to hide for a few nights before I flipped.

I don't know about you but when I personally am hunting for Scum I look for inconsistency in both claim and views because that usually tells me there's a lie in there. When you're honest, you either have your ducks in a row or you're forgetful or something like it.

this is valid but just doesn't really apply here imo

but my point is
i think he's lying but i don't/didn't think he was lying about it as scum - based on other games i think he just does it all the time

not nearly as sure anymore if it's town anymore but i'm not lynching him today

[Sujimichi]

not sure how this comes off as being in the center
i townread FL and i didn't want him lynched
pretty sure every one of your quotes here except for the bottom one is me saying "FL wouldn't do this as scum" or "i think FL is town"

This is what I meant by waffling, though perhaps I described it incorrectly.

I was actually going to say i changed my mind on FL at around #1122	but i like his last few pages way too much
almost this	but i actually DO want to stop people from doing it
doubt this is totally true	but once again i don't think it's coming from scum

[Sujimichi]

Suji, january, how do you both read tictac?

No differently than yesterday.

[Sujimichi]

Could someone summarize why Dunnstral is the preferred lynch today other than his lack of activity?

[Sujimichi]

Apologies to all for not being around during the holidays. Good job to the town.