Open 70 - Two of Four (b9) (Game Over!) before 595

[ShadowGirl]

Yes, I was just about to say that. xD And I seem to be seeing you a lot, though you might get tired of seeing me everywhere.

Well, now that school is going to be done in about a week, I have nothing better to do. <3

[ShadowGirl]

I apologize for the lack of an analysis post as of yet - one shall be coming later today.

[ShadowGirl]

Apologies, but a thorough post shall not come until Friday - my finals are a little bit more of a priority at the moment.

[ShadowGirl]

Gah, that reread will be coming today. >>;

[ShadowGirl]

dcorbe - Lots of voting within the first page, but since it's also random voting it's excusable.

Mod,

It's been almost 24 hours since the last post. Can we put a time limit on the day please?

Looking to speed up the day?

farside22 -

unvote:
vote: dcorbe

Some looking for a no lynch = scum[/quote]
How was asking for a deadline = looking for a no lynch? Quick to assume, hn?

I say we should vote those not trying to promote activity.

Interesting policy.

Get in and start hunting scum or you are scum.

Sounds pretty condemning.

Claim townie (bolded this)

Oh? Why the claim? You're nowhere close to being lynched or anything.

What you did and what you say you did are conflicting.

What you did: Put dcorbe at L-2, then jumped off after he claimed townie on the basis of "I just think you are aggressive"

What you say you did: Pressured dcorbe and then hopped off to extend the day.

These are conflicting issues. The former implies that you wanted him to be lynched then backed out right before we could lynch him so you weren't blamed. The second implies a lot more tact, which I think you are retroactively trying to add to your actions.

Why would I be blamed for his lynch if most people agreed with it? I read his response to his claim and comments and said he is aggressive, but also stated page 3 is not enough info. I never didn't say that and you keep missing that to make yourself sound good. Whatever helps you sleep at night or makes you think your scum hunting is good is no skin off my nose. Remind me the next time I see you in for a game to out myself because your scum hunting is terrible. You are looking for something that isn't there and letting the scum fly off.
I would wish the town good luck, but if you are listening to Armix you are screwed.

unvote:
vote: farside22

I hope you are happy this is the first game I ever voted for myself because you just made this a miserable experience for me.

The self vote makes it seem like you're fishing for sympathy because you're being attacked.

By not voting him, if he turns up town, you distance yourself from the blame.

Also, claim please and

Unvote

so no one hammers before this occurs.

Also, self voting is 100% anti-town. Just saying.

Already claimed. Not unvoting myself. I have nothing else to say to you.

If you are that frustrated with the game, would you mind asking for replacement rather than going about your current course of action?

I'm frustrated with you. Get it right. I'm also not putting so poor person in my place to answer stupid questions that don't make you happy.

Getting a bit personal, aren't we?

If anyone has any other questions for me, or anything else - go ahead and ask.

[ShadowGirl]

@Shawdow girl. I was I believe at L-2 when I claimed and Armix asked for a claim. Are you voting for me are just going over a bit of the read? Did you finish reading everything that was stated after those quotes?
Since I can't mention bringing current games into discussions I will say one thing about Armix. He likes to push people day 1 with little to no information and push buttons. I hadn't realized that was his playstyle, but I felt the attack and comments were unjustified. I don't like the way he plays day1 being the person that he comes after and people just follow like lap dogs.
That said who are you top 3 suspects and why?

Uh no, I'm not voting for anyone - my coding sort of messed up on that post. And yes, I was doing read - and I did read after those quotes but I didn't find anything particularily scummy.

Thank you for the tip.

[ShadowGirl]

@Shawdow girl. I was I believe at L-2 when I claimed and Armix asked for a claim. Are you voting for me are just going over a bit of the read? Did you finish reading everything that was stated after those quotes?
Since I can't mention bringing current games into discussions I will say one thing about Armix. He likes to push people day 1 with little to no information and push buttons. I hadn't realized that was his playstyle, but I felt the attack and comments were unjustified. I don't like the way he plays day1 being the person that he comes after and people just follow like lap dogs.
That said who are you top 3 suspects and why?

My top three suspects:
Moreso:
dcorbe - Leaving Max at L-1, despite warning people about it, definitely brings up a red flag in my head.
Max -

I'm vanilla which means I'm going to get lynched, you haven't got a case for me to defend against and I believe that Mr Blonde is scum, avinyl is town and jtdyer is the second scum.

Mr.Blonde getting killed seems like such a odd choice, and something about this post seems off to me. He points out these two people without any evidence.

Grimmy, alvinz95 - What do you guys think about Max & Farside? Do you think they are townies or scums?

Say something, vote somebody.

Mr.Blonde was probably killed by someone he accused.

Not so much:
Armlx -

Yeah, nothing convincing.

Vote Max

Hammah time.

Considering Max practically dissapeared, the hammer isn't so suspicious, however, it didn't come longer after dcorbe's post.

[ShadowGirl]

@Shawdow: What about alvinz lack of comments. I admittedly don't like people who have nothing to offer to the game it always comes across as scummy.

Hn. He posted a little content on page five, but other than that... He is being pretty lurkerish, though I don't know if that's because he has time contraints? [Though, he is posting in other games...]

I can't get a read on him considering how few posts there is to read.

[ShadowGirl]

I seem to be forgetting which threads I need to reread and which I've already done so. o_o;

My third would be alvinz then.

[ShadowGirl]

Thank you for the tip. <3

Though, I do think I was bit foolish to enter five games. >>

And I agree that alvinz needs to post more. Saying that you're here doesn't help the town.

[ShadowGirl]

And I agree that alvinz needs to post more. Saying that you're here doesn't help the town.

You've also posted to avoid being prodded. If it's a scum tell for alvinz, should it be a scum tell for you as well?

I've at least posted a little bit content, albeit it isn't the best - he's posted only as so he doesn't get prodded.

[ShadowGirl]

Now in ShadowGirls first big analysis post, there are only two people mentioned, dcorbe, which I find interesting given how jtyder did a quick and unexplained “townie read” on him. Also there is mention of farside, for mostly being emotional, which again seems really unusual because emotional isn’t indicative of alignment. No vote was included on this first post.

To me, anything that is said in a post is a tell of someone's alignment. Also, I don't see how it's odd that me and jtyder think differently - we are different people.

In the second analysis post, the scum from SG are dcorbe, Max (?!) and Armix. Dcorbe again is interesting to me for previous reasons, max is just stupid and I don’t know what to make of that, and then armix for a quick hammer, which is a much more sensical suspicion to me. No vote again from SG. Farside also has disappeard from this list, making me wonder why she was included on the first post.

Just because someone has slipped from my top three doesn't mean I've forgotten about them. Seeing as how alvinz has practically dissapeared from the thread and farside is active, it makes him seem as if he's hiding.

When challenged on the fact that Max was the D1 lynch, SG throws in alvinz as a suspicion, because he is lurking, and that’s really all the case that got built up there.

And yet he conviently posts right after me with a large PBPA after I've just pointed him out for dissapearing.

Well, I attempted to get some scumtells, but when going through it, I got nothing. I plan on investigating someone else today.

Anyway, how's that coming along?

[ShadowGirl]

v_v Right. I'm clearly not doing this game any justice. And that... didn't come out right somehow.

[ShadowGirl]

I agree with dcorbe. I don't see what information we can possibly get out of Max's lynch - he hardly put up a defense and he was practically asking for it. How is speculating on possible scum partners for Max doing any good either - he didn't flip scum, no matter how much he seemed like it.

This discussion is getting us nowhere and only seems to be stirring things up for just the sake of it.

Vote: farside22

[ShadowGirl]

This discussion is getting us nowhere and only seems to be stirring things up for just the sake of it.

Have you even discussed anything yet? Are you lurking on purpose and just looking for BW to join.

dcorbe
shadowgirl
scum pair. Shadow following dcorbe vote should look damn shaddy to many.

Prod to Grimmy and Lama

I would like other peoples input on what just happened.

Lurking on purpose? How am I lurking? Also, why did you ask me to be prodded?

If I was scum I wouldn't be quite as stupid to follow him after in a vote.

[ShadowGirl]

No, yesterday you prodded me.

Fair enough, I suppose.

[ShadowGirl]

I apologize for not posting - my phone and internet went out for some inexplicable reason and it took a few days before a repairmen came to fix it.

Nonetheless, out of all the games I'm playing this is the one that I've clearly played horribly nor is my heart into it - if you wish to lynch me, then go ahead. However, I would prefer I be replaced - for town's sake.

[ShadowGirl]

For what it's worth - I am not scum. That is why I prefer to be replaced.

[ShadowGirl]

For what it's worth - I am not scum. That is why I prefer to be replaced.

For future reference, saying this means nothing.

Thank you for the advice.

Also what do you think of my vote on SG? Is that a good vote? What about Arimx's Grimmy vote?

Why do you need someone else to justify as to whether your vote is good? You should know whether it or not.

[ShadowGirl]

I apologize for the absence. A reread shall be coming in a day or so.

Cass - Why do you believe me to be dcorbe's partner? You don't give much, or any reasoning in your post.

[ShadowGirl]

I apologize for taking awhile to answer this post - I haven't forgotten it.

I agree with dcorbe. I don't see what information we can possibly get out of Max's lynch - he hardly put up a defense and he was practically asking for it. How is speculating on possible scum partners for Max doing any good either - he didn't flip scum, no matter how much he seemed like it.

This discussion is getting us nowhere and only seems to be stirring things up for just the sake of it.

Vote: farside22

Im really pressed for time but I will comment on this later tonight when I have more then five minutes.

I think there is plenty of information to get out of the Max lynch. I did an analysis post on it and from what I figured out, Avinyl became my top suspect over SG.

The willingness of SG to ignore what happened there, especially as I didnt like the player she replaced in what he did during the Max lynch, a concern. I still see a much higher chance of SG scum the dcorbe, as ive seen him play this wierd reckless scummy play in ever game that I look at.

I would still say a lynch should be SG or avinly at this point though.

I'm not ignoring what happened, I'm just saying that we can only get so much from it. Considering how brash Max was playing, he was practically asking for it.

First of what will probally be at least a double post

Now in ShadowGirls first big analysis post, there are only two people mentioned, dcorbe, which I find interesting given how jtyder did a quick and unexplained “townie read” on him. Also there is mention of farside, for mostly being emotional, which again seems really unusual because emotional isn’t indicative of alignment. No vote was included on this first post.

To me, anything that is said in a post is a tell of someone's alignment. Also, I don't see how it's odd that me and jtyder think differently - we are different people.

You still are responsable for anything that jtyder did, just like I am responsable for anything alvinz did. The thing that was odd to me was that while jtyder seemed to dismiss him as a scum suspect too fast, you decided to make him one of your top picks. While dissention between replacees and replaced are common, the fact that it was to this much of an extream is noteable.

I do realize that I'm not getting a completely clean slate - a new beginning. As I've already said, me and jtyder are different people - I don't see why I need to think like him.

In the second analysis post, the scum from SG are dcorbe, Max (?!) and Armix. Dcorbe again is interesting to me for previous reasons, max is just stupid and I don’t know what to make of that, and then armix for a quick hammer, which is a much more sensical suspicion to me. No vote again from SG. Farside also has disappeard from this list, making me wonder why she was included on the first post.

Just because someone has slipped from my top three doesn't mean I've forgotten about them. Seeing as how alvinz has practically dissapeared from the thread and farside is active, it makes him seem as if he's hiding.

Well what is your current stance on farside then if you still are thinking about her? It seems something that would of been addressed in a second post of who is scummy given your thoughts in the first post that did mention her. Again the failure to vote here also is interesting, you have done two analysis posts and failed to vote in either.

I don't see why I'm obliged to vote Especially considering at the time I had just come in - I wanted to see the people in play.

Well, I attempted to get some scumtells, but when going through it, I got nothing. I plan on investigating someone else today.

Anyway, how's that coming along?

Well I am alvinz 2.0, a more reliable, more efficiant and with improved scumhunt(TM) abilities. My analysis of the thread says that you and avinyl are the best candidates for scum.

All jokes aside though, I would like to hear a case from you sometime soon, and thoughts on farside. As well as answers to anything I asked in this post.

Farside just seems a bit brash with every post she makes, and the things that happened page six sticks in my head. A breakdown and a self vote? This is a game - you shouldn't take things personally.

The vote on farside for trying to get people to look at the Max lynch wagon also bugs me. It gives a bit of a bad vibe, sort of like a guard saying "no you arent going in there" as they put their hand on a gun. A preimtive OMGUS if you will. I would like to hear an answer to 317 when you get the chance too.

I didn't vote for farside for looking in further to the Max lynch wagon, I voted for her because nothing productive was coming out of probing into it.

[ShadowGirl]

What ShadowGirls opinion on the slip is

Hm. The post is said with an immense amount of confidence, but I'm not quite sure if he would throw Grimmy under the bus. He'd be down one partner but he would be pretty much vindicated of any scumminess. I'm trying to think of likely the possibility of him being a cop is, but I don't see it as very high.

I'd like to hear from him about that statement.

What ShadowGirls opinion on Cass/Grimmy is

Grimmy doesn't seem to have been posting that much, and his last post that actually contained something useful was his PBA of dcorbe on page nine - with the verdict that dcorbe was a townie.

Cass seems to be be doing a lot of 'ifs'. And the phrase:

I still think a vote on her is the safer choice.

rubs the wrong way. Is there ever really a safe choice in a game of mafia? Unless you're mafia where lynching just about anyone is pretty safe.

What ShadowGirls opinon on dcorbe is

With the posts he's made he hasn't been scumhunting very aggressively, and as I've been in other games with him I find this a bit odd. He seems to want to veer away from the Max lynch by deeming it's a waste of time, but so is arguing over whether to look at it or not.

[ShadowGirl]

It's also a waste of time to argue about it.

[ShadowGirl]

Ick. Pressed reply by accident.

What I meant is that if anyone found something of note in the Max lynch they would have said it already.

[ShadowGirl]

This game is second on my reread list - something should be coming today or tommorow.

[ShadowGirl]

Ick. Pressed reply by accident.

What I meant is that if anyone found something of note in the Max lynch they would have said it already.

You never stated that in your post vote. You just said it was a waste. Now you think his reaction odd or you think it is both?

More so the former [that it was a waste]. I've been in a game with dcorbe before and I don't see his reaction as odd - I've seen him get into fights with people and act like that.

This game is now first on my reread list.

[ShadowGirl]

Doing a massive reread - I'm currently up to page ten.

[ShadowGirl]

Farside/Armlx:
Farside:

Mod,

It's been almost 24 hours since the last post. Can we put a time limit on the day please?

Asking for a deadline does not help if people aren't posting. This is by far the scummiest thing to do. You should be asking for a prod on those not posting in the last couple of days first.

unvote:
vote: dcorbe

Some looking for a no lynch = scum

Asking for a deadline anti-town move, but I wouldn't say scummy. He merely wants to get more activity. Also, nowhere does it say that he wants a no lynch.

In post 22 where farside says: "I say we should vote those not trying to promote activity." sounds a little like scum not trying to sound like scum to me. Nothing around that post seems to warrant her saying that.

Vote: farside22

That was post 35 not 22 and towards alvin95 who has done nothing and said nothing helpful or trying to promote conversation in anyway which does not help the town.
Meh you could be town. I think 3 pages isn't really telling me anything about you except you are aggressive.

unvote:

(for now)

vote: alvinz95

Get in and start hunting scum or you are scum.

Wants to get off the wagon before he gets hammered and it shows that he's not scum. Not the best reason for voting alvinz.

Hmm, farside22 changes his vote right after getting accused by dcorbe (who had most votes) and then farside22 tries to make us look somebody else than himself.

"So lynch all lurkers is your policy?" I kind of like that policy...

I'm not lynching lurkers policy. I'm stating that people need to promote conversation and not just say I don't know.

FOS Armix

. Because of all the players here you should know that. I moved back to alvinz95 because of his post. I unvoted dcorbe because he is a newbie and as I stated it was page 3 and nothing much was going on.

And what post would that be? As you said before, he's been contributing nothing and that's why you voted for him.

Unless you meant this post:

Sorry, I was at Islands of Adventure the past weekend...
So lynch all lurkers is your policy? Obviously an attempt you deflect attention...

Which still does not constitute a vote.

He was at L-1 and claimed townie. Correct procedure is pretty much always lynch.

With 3 pages and no info? That is terrible idea. Unless I'm certain he was scum why let him get lynched by a quick hammer? Sure maybe it will flush out a newbie scum day one, but if dcorbe is townie it just gives the scum an early first kill with no discussion. You logic fails.

He was wagoned for legitimately scummy reasons and didn't have a saving claim.

So he should be lynched without more discussion?

Not my point. My point is abandoning his wagon based on the info at that point in time was EXTREMELY odd.

Leaving him at L-1 which is uncomfortable when I've seen some people with quick hammers some games.

Again, this all comes back to the idea of you voting (and putting at L-2 I might add) someone you weren't comfortable with lynching or thought was town.

I'm uncomfortable with a page 3 no info lynch. You keep missing that. Putting him at L-2 for good reason. Leaving it because sometimes (most times) scum look for an easy and quick lynch to cause confusion.
Nice try in purposely misunderstanding me. Look forward to hearing you try and convince people day 2 why you were so hard up on my lynch when I have stated over and over my reasons and you keep misunderstanding. Sad part I think you are town.

No info? What more do you want from a day start lynch?

Also, nice trying to scare me off voting you b/c of the "consequences" while simultaneously buddying by saying you think I'm town.

Talks from everyone. Get a feel for everyone to see what they say and not just saying the same thing over and over again.
Honestly your argument is getting on my nerves because you aren't reading anything I am saying and find your shortsightedness sad. I've explained my unvote and thoughts you just don't agree. I don't care that you don't agree I care that you seem to think it's scummy when I'm doing more searching. I expect to be lynched and want it on record I don't find you scummy, but your shorsightedness will have people looking at you when I'm lynched and come out town just as I said I would.

You expect to be lynched at L-2? There's still awhile to go. Yet, after everything you don't believe that he is scum but still expect that town will think he is after you flip town.

Vote Farside

.

Also, no previous suspicion of max stated. Wagon much?

I think she had her vote on Max already before she unvoted and voted herself.

I'm sure if you go back far enough in the thread she at one point made a pretty small case against.

-Daniel

QFT. I did. My opinion hasn't changed. He is not making any sense on his thought process and attacked anyone for asking him about it. He voted for me with little no reasoning. Overall I get scummy vibes from him.

And now you finally think he is scum after his irrational actions even though he had been like this before and you didn't think he was scum - if and when he's lynched it would look better on you.

I don't think Armix is scum I just think he is narrow minded.

I'm starting to think this as well.

Unvote

of hypocrisy.

I endorse a Max lynch now. He has been actively scummy as opposed to subtlely as I have accused dcorbe and farside of.

And now you change your stance on him once again, saying that he is town for the same reasons you previously thought was scum.

And of course, an unvote from Armlx - so flip floppy.

Not to give all my trade secrets but not everyone who dies at night died because of what they say. Some scum kill those who aren't suspicious. I wouldn't say Mr. Blonde was a great choice (usually a more pro town player is targeted) so I suspect someone who hasn't played as much mafia if I were to pick anyone as scum.

A way to shift away from his very few comments.

Armix:

endorses a lynch of Max, but I don't really see a reason why
jtdyer/ShadowGirl: Also lurkerish with nothing to add. I didn't really like his reasoning for his vote for max. I would like to add that Armix could you please post your reasons for your vote because you too are on my list for your hammer and suspicion without real reason radar.

vote: shadowgirl

How does lurking trump a hammer? If anything, voting armlx to pressure him would be a better idea.

As much as Armix beat me up for not keeping my vote on dcorbe I wonder if it wasn't bussing.

What does this mean?

You were arguing with me about my unvote on dcorbe. I think you two may be scum partners and I do believe you to be the type of person to buss your scum partner.

Which is what he’s being doing to you basically the whole game.

[ShadowGirl]

Armlx:

I agree with the dcorbe stuff so far. Max is null on my list so far as is Avinyl for their interaction (or more max's random push on him for something not really that scummy).

dcorbe, claim and/or die.

Also, no one is to hammer dcorbe before he claims.

Yeah, just leaving him chilling there is awkward. Waiting on claim still.

Umm, yeah, Farside just abandoning the wagon is pretty sketchy.

Vote Farside

3rd on the wagon and what not. Been forever since I used that one.

Seems a bit bussy.

Unvote

Definitely did NOT realize that was L-1.

You asked dcorbe to claim, but not farside?
You voted for her for doing the same thing you just did.

I think a dcorbe lynch at this point is counter productive. A page ago it wasn't.

Oh? Because he claimed town?

Waiting on a Farside claim, then I will vote based on that.

And now you ask a claim for her, despite you were quick to ask dcorbe for one.

Pushes dcorbe wagon and just randomly abandons it post townie claim for no reason.

She hadn't claimed townie at that point.

Vote Farside

. Didn't vote earlier as she was at L-2.

If you truly think she is scum you shouldn't be so hesistant to put at L-1.

He was at L-1 and claimed townie. Correct procedure is pretty much always lynch.

You are fine with lynching dcorbe but don't do so yourself, but you're hesistant to put farside at L-1.

What you did and what you say you did are conflicting.

What you did: Put dcorbe at L-2, then jumped off after he claimed townie on the basis of "I just think you are aggressive"

What you say you did: Pressured dcorbe and then hopped off to extend the day.

These are conflicting issues. The former implies that you wanted him to be lynched then backed out right before we could lynch him so you weren't blamed. The second implies a lot more tact, which I think you are retroactively trying to add to your actions.

Why would I be blamed for his lynch if most people agreed with it? I read his response to his claim and comments and said he is aggressive, but also stated page 3 is not enough info. I never didn't say that and you keep missing that to make yourself sound good. Whatever helps you sleep at night or makes you think your scum hunting is good is no skin off my nose. Remind me the next time I see you in for a game to out myself because your scum hunting is terrible. You are looking for something that isn't there and letting the scum fly off.
I would wish the town good luck, but if you are listening to Armix you are screwed.

unvote:
vote: farside22

I hope you are happy this is the first game I ever voted for myself because you just made this a miserable experience for me.

By not voting him, if he turns up town, you distance yourself from the blame.

Also, claim please and

Unvote

so no one hammers before this occurs.

Also, self voting is 100% anti-town. Just saying.

You ask her to claim when she's already claimed, and you mentioned that the reason you thought she was scummy was because of that claim.

You are still unwilling to let her go to L-1 but you were fine with lynching dcorbe. By this point I can gather that you would think farside scummier then dcorbe after that heated discussion.

By not voting him, if he turns up town, you distance yourself from the blame.

Also, claim please and

Unvote

so no one hammers before this occurs.

Also, self voting is 100% anti-town. Just saying.

Already claimed. Not unvoting myself. I have nothing else to say to you.

If you are that frustrated with the game, would you mind asking for replacement rather than going about your current course of action?

Appears to be an appeal to the emotions, and trying to ease suspicion off her because of her outbursts are purely emotion driven.

Vote Farside

.

Also, no previous suspicion of max stated. Wagon much?

And you finally vote for her because she's voting max, not because of the discussion that just came up - and she had already been voting him, at that.

I'd also like to hear if anyone has anything positive to say about max. Speak up now or forever hold your piece

How about we wait for a claim before we do anything rash.

Mr. Blonde: You are wrong. Such lists are made by both alignments, backed by both, etc. Usually, making such a list is detrimental to any sort of grouped scum however.

Yeah, nothing convincing.

Vote Max

Hammah time.

An easy hammer considering everyone wanted it, however, you're the one who suggest to wait for a claim and then you chuck that out the window seeing the opportunity.

I'm trying to figure out who would have killed Mr. Blonde in this scenario

Not liking that last Grimmy post, on top of what farside said there the "oh no, 2 dead townies" thing.

We never do hear about this 'scenario'.

Avinyl and armlx. When I've seen these type of lists, you can rest assured that there's either:
(1) scum who makes this list (to control on who could be suspicious)
or
(2) townie makes a list to which scum says "good list".

Hmm..

alvinz- Null. More content needed.

Avinyl- Mildly scummy. Hisscum list is very non-commital towards most people, and he was the only person with a legit reason to kill Mr. Blonde (or more accurately, the only person who would think it was a legit reason)

Dcorbe- In retrospect, pro-town. Hasn't done anything really scummy besides that one contradiction. Seems very interactive as well.

Farside- Town, comparison to Weather Mafia mainly.

Grimmy- Scum, see above

jtdyer- Possible scum, voting record is pretty opportunistic.

Farside is back to town and use the Weather Mafia as a way to justify her reaction.
I'd also like to point out you seem to pin mine and my predecessor's votes as opportunistic but not anyone else's.

As much as Armix beat me up for not keeping my vote on dcorbe I wonder if it wasn't bussing.

What does this mean?

You were arguing with me about my unvote on dcorbe. I think you two may be scum parnters and I do believe you to be the type of person to buss your scum partner.

I think that Armlx thought that farside slipped.

Yawn, this sounds like a fight among townies.

More lynching Grimmy would be my solution.

The two people fighting are the two people who you think as scum.

At best it's going to lead us to a WIOFMy mis lynch. I'm concerned about the consequences of us mis-lynching a power role because we got some bad intelligence from the Max lynch.

This is an example of having the fear of being wrong, though I agree with you analyzing the Max lynch right now is pretty useless.

I wouldn't say its useless, but more that right now is not the optimal time to try and draw info from the max wagon. I mean, its pretty assured both scum were on it, but so was almost all the town.

If you are pretty assured that scum was on it, I wouldn’t say that info is useless.

Farside: The only people who did not endorse a Max lynch were Max and alvin95, who didn't even post. I am counting Grimmy and Avinyl as on the wagon as they definitely showed worthy voting intents. The odds of the sole person who didn't attack max being scum are 2/7, not even accounting for scum having incentive to join the mass wagon. Thats pretty assured to me.

Voting intentions and voting are not the same thing. You’re just trying to make it seem that it could be basically anyone so that there’s no point in looking over it.

Did a full reread, and I still agree with my current course of action: Lynch Grimmy then move from there.

I still think we have better options in SG (who replaced jtyder) and strife (who replaced avinyl). What are your views on the other wagons that are appearing though (SG and farside), grimmy has to be scum buddies with someone.

Actually you was my current choice, but its pretty weak and I am no where near confident enough to lynch anyone other than Grimmy right now.

Then speak up and say why he is your choice. Just going along with it, hm?

I understand why you would re-route to attack Farside, but if your suspicion of Farside drops, the logical thing to do seems to be go back after DCorbe. Like you said, he got to L-1 for a reason, and the vanilla claim shouldn't have effected anything.

There are 2 reasons behind this.

1) Everything Max had done up to that point was suspicious.

2) Meta-based information from an ongoing game where he was revealed as town.

That was that game, this is this game.

Why do you need someone else to justify as to whether your vote is good? You should know whether it or not.

This is a decent point. Asking what people think of a case you make is good, but not asking for direct support in a vote.

Buddying up to me a little?

That is not only lining up lynches that is a big slip in saying hey guess what grimm's flipping scum.

I'm confused as to why you want to lynch dcorbe before grimmy for that.

Seems like two partners talking to each other.

[ShadowGirl]

Cass is todays lynch, the scum tells are through the roof, the relationship with strife is off the scale. Someone please hammer.

Anxious much? Shadowgirl just made two monster posts, Goatre is still planning an analysis on me, and you want the day ended already?

My thoughts exactly. It's like... my posts never even happened.

Her playing style seems newbie-ish: dropping cases by dismissing some facts because other people say they are null tells or are other things - like hunting pairs aren't a good idea.

[ShadowGirl]

Sorry, I've been watching E3 for the past... oh so many hours.

Whatever other questions/remarks towards me I'll answer the next time I come on.

For your farside-armix interactions though, they are good. I may be impartial to them a bit because I have had a town read on farside since I replaced into this game, but if Armix flips scum its something to look into. The other fault I really see with that pairing is that Armix seems to be the one that caused farside to breakdown and selfvote. That seems much much farther then scum would take it with another scum. WIFOM I know but I dont see scum taking it that far, ever.

I would say WIFOM, really.

Unvote, Vote armlx.

[ShadowGirl]

Unvote, Vote armlx.

Jumping on the new armlx wagon that fast? Really?

That isn't the first time either. Seems that happened way back when with dcorbe putting a vote on me for poor reasoning.

I made a case against him, I didn't realize I couldn't vote for him.

[ShadowGirl]

Ok, so just myself, farside, and cass have claimed.

For your farside-armix interactions though, they are good. I may be impartial to them a bit because I have had a town read on farside since I replaced into this game, but if Armix flips scum its something to look into. The other fault I really see with that pairing is that Armix seems to be the one that caused farside to breakdown and selfvote. That seems much much farther then scum would take it with another scum. WIFOM I know but I dont see scum taking it that far, ever.

I would say WIFOM, really.

I wouldn't dismiss that as WIFOM. I agree with LlamaFluff. I don't see scum taking it that far. This isn't a conclusive indication that farside/armlx aren't a scum team, but it certainly seems to be a point against it.

I agreet that it isn't the most conclusive evidence for it, but I think it go either way.

[ShadowGirl]

I'm not liking Cass' list, but I can see how it could be useful if and when she's lynched.

Ugh, I can see that her posts are wishy-washy but I can't tell if that's just genuine scumminess or her being new to the game.

[ShadowGirl]

Ok, so just myself, farside, and cass have claimed.

For your farside-armix interactions though, they are good. I may be impartial to them a bit because I have had a town read on farside since I replaced into this game, but if Armix flips scum its something to look into. The other fault I really see with that pairing is that Armix seems to be the one that caused farside to breakdown and selfvote. That seems much much farther then scum would take it with another scum. WIFOM I know but I dont see scum taking it that far, ever.

I would say WIFOM, really.

I wouldn't dismiss that as WIFOM. I agree with LlamaFluff. I don't see scum taking it that far. This isn't a conclusive indication that farside/armlx aren't a scum team, but it certainly seems to be a point against it.

I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on ShadowGirl. I personally am seeing this last vote on armlx (the timing if nothing else) to be quite suspicious. She makes a huge post against armlx, but doesn't vote armlx until Cass does (basically waiting for other support). She also ignores armlx's response to her case and brushes aside LlamaFluff's objection as WIFOM without any real explanation there. This, in addition to my previous case, makes me feel fairly confident that ShadowGirl is scum.

I haven't brushed them off - please read post 506.

[ShadowGirl]

I haven't brushed them off - please read post 506.

You didn't address armlx's response. All you said about LlamaFluff's statement was that it was WIFiOM, without any real explanation. I'd say that's pretty much brushing it aside.

Also, you voting armlx wasn't really the issue. It was the timing and convenience of doing so. Rather than vote armlx when you pushed your case on him, you instead waited until someone else voted him before hopping on. It looks a lot like you're looking for an easy bandwagon rather than scum.

No, I intend to answer them the next time I got on and have time. I'd answer them now but I have to head off to sleep.

I didn't even notice she had been voting armlx. My original answer to that was that it wasn't a wagon because I was the only one on it, but then I read up and saw that she had as well. Anyway, not my point - I wanted to see what everyone else thought of it as well. Make of it what you will. It could go the other way around as well - with me making a case as well it gives her a reason to vote that way.

[ShadowGirl]

I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on ShadowGirl.

SG is my third scum by far right now. First odd thing was her replace in LoSs which went from dcorbe/Max(who was dead)/armix to a vote of farside, for trying to look at what the Max lynch could tell us.

I didn't vote for her for looking into the lynch, I voted for her because she and dcorbe were arguing about whether as to do so. As I said, if someone had anything to say about it they would have said it already.

Also I explained that putting Max in my top three was an oversight from me balancing so many games at that point.

@Farside: The set of quotations about the Max lynch were supposed to be set in 'armlx's side'. When I must have copy and pasted it wrong.

@Goat: I'm not ignoring the case against her, I'm just not sure if this is newbie playing or genuinely scummy playing. Which means I'm going to do a small reread of the last few pages and her comments.

[ShadowGirl]

I want to hear from strife.

[ShadowGirl]

Im down with a massclaim and that ordering

*taps foot waiting*

Then let's hear the claim.

I am doctor.

[ShadowGirl]

Im down with a massclaim and that ordering

*taps foot waiting*

Then let's hear the claim.

I am doctor.

Who have you tried to protect and why?

Strife should be next then LlamaFluff. But I will let them fight out who does what when.

I protected Llama last night seeing as he's pretty much the driving force of the town - or seems to be, anyway. Very strong and vocal.

[ShadowGirl]

I protected Llama last night seeing as he's pretty much the driving force of the town - or seems to be, anyway. Very strong and vocal.

Night 1?

I replaced in on day two - I don't know who jtyder protected the first night.

[ShadowGirl]

Since we now armlx is town, and I'll assume you are town for this question - that leaves Llama and Goat as the potential scum. Who do you think is more likely to be scum?

[ShadowGirl]

I'd also like a claim from Goat, also.

But I agree - we should wait for the other claims.

[ShadowGirl]

I'd also like a claim from Goat, also.

But I agree - we should wait for the other claims.

Goat who replaced dcorbe. Dcorbe claimed townie on page 2 or 3.

Ah, my bad.

[ShadowGirl]

That would be appreciated.

[ShadowGirl]

Unfortunately I do not have lots of time since I have to head off, but I'll pop in on this thread somewhere within twenty four hours of this post.

I don't think it needs to be mentioned, but make your vote carefully - if the scum is quick enough they can tack on two more and it's over.

Llama, I would swear you've already acknowledged that I made a good choice in trying to save you but I'll look through the thread once more.

- I'm confused why the general assumption seems to be that SG's claim is guaranteed truth. Am I missing something here?

Weren't you the one that said that I was basically confirmed seeing as how there has to be at least one PR?

I'll say this - I don't think farside was the best choice of a block, really. Catching a kill versus possibly blocking a power role? Well...

Llama, as you've said that strife, armlx and me were likely to have a power role - who do you think was more likely to have it?

[ShadowGirl]

I apologize for not a lot of posting - I was off seeing Batman yesterday. Good movie.

[quote="strife']First off, the chance of her getting counter-claimed is reasonably low (around 50%), regardless of who her scum-buddy is. Secondly, even if she did get counterclaimed, that wouldn't mean she would get lynched. It's lylo with 2 scum alive - getting counterclaimed is not a concern. [/quote]
I don't know about you, but I wouldn't consider around 50 % to be low.

@Llama: What is your current list of lynching?

[ShadowGirl]

I apologize for not a lot of posting - I was off seeing Batman yesterday. Good movie.
And in a more readable format:

First off, the chance of her getting counter-claimed is reasonably low (around 50%), regardless of who her scum-buddy is. Secondly, even if she did get counterclaimed, that wouldn't mean she would get lynched. It's lylo with 2 scum alive - getting counterclaimed is not a concern.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't consider around 50 % to be low.

@Llama: What is your current list of lynching?

[ShadowGirl]

I'm currently trying to formulate my thoughts, and I think I should probably do a reread of the whole thread as well

One quick question to Llama: How do you know who alvinz blocked on the first night?

[ShadowGirl]

I just PMed the mod, but I don't know exactly when I'll get an answer.

Personally, I would prefer lynching Llama instead of strife today.

[ShadowGirl]

I just PMed the mod, but I don't know exactly when I'll get an answer.

Personally, I would prefer lynching Llama instead of strife today.

Why Llama? He has claimed RB do you disbelieve him?

Him choosing you as his RB target doesn't bode well with me, considering how sure he was that you were town. :/

[ShadowGirl]

I just PMed the mod, but I don't know exactly when I'll get an answer.

Personally, I would prefer lynching Llama instead of strife today.

Why Llama? He has claimed RB do you disbelieve him?

Him choosing you as his RB target doesn't bode well with me, considering how sure he was that you were town. :/

I dont know if you think I'm town or not. My thougt is that we choose goat if he us scum, which I think he is. We vote him out and then Llama should block strife which would lead to one less person being NK.
I know this means you have to trust me and believe me when I say I am not scum with this thought in mind. I don't know whether to believe Llama or not myself. I don't understand why he would RB me if he thought I was town the night before. However it is because of that lack of trust and watching Goat and Llama's interaction that I am leaning on voting Goat on this one.

I do indeed think you're town. If you're not, then kudos - you've fooled me.

Hn, that is an interesting plan. Goat and Llama seem to be arguing about everything except for voting strife and that strikes me as a bit odd.

[ShadowGirl]

I just PMed the mod, but I don't know exactly when I'll get an answer.

Personally, I would prefer lynching Llama instead of strife today.

Why Llama? He has claimed RB do you disbelieve him?

Him choosing you as his RB target doesn't bode well with me, considering how sure he was that you were town. :/

I dont know if you think I'm town or not. My thougt is that we choose goat if he us scum, which I think he is. We vote him out and then Llama should block strife which would lead to one less person being NK.
I know this means you have to trust me and believe me when I say I am not scum with this thought in mind. I don't know whether to believe Llama or not myself. I don't understand why he would RB me if he thought I was town the night before. However it is because of that lack of trust and watching Goat and Llama's interaction that I am leaning on voting Goat on this one.

I do indeed think you're town. If you're not, then kudos - you've fooled me.

Hn, that is an interesting plan. Goat and Llama seem to be arguing about everything except for voting strife and that strikes me as a bit odd.

I find it odd too. That is why I'm leaning on Goat on this one. Plus the earlier interaction of votes I saw and pointed out on day 2.

However, what if Llama is mafia and just submits a no kill, but claims that he RBed strife?

[ShadowGirl]

I find it odd too. That is why I'm leaning on Goat on this one. Plus the earlier interaction of votes I saw and pointed out on day 2.

However, what if Llama is mafia and just submits a no kill, but claims that he RBed strife?

I think it's all WIFOM at that point. I think if anything I will question Llama more on why he is leaning strife more then Goat and what his thoughts on the connection they had throughout the game. Plus I'm still thinking about day 1 and whether dcorbe (as scum) would have a partner trying to out him day 1. So trust me when I say Llama is not in the clear by a long shot.[/quote]
Very true.

Yes, I think we need to hear from everyone a little more - and I especially want to hear from strife.

[ShadowGirl]

Reread in progress -

I PMed the mod and they told me that jtyder protected armlx the first night.

[ShadowGirl]

Well, I suppose he's entitled to disbelieving my claim. :/

@Strife: Well, this game is at lylo and we need your input.

@Farside: Oh no, there's no way I'm tacking on a vote before thinking carefully about it. Scum need only one person to be voting against a town member - and if they're quick enough to post they can end the game.

[ShadowGirl]

I've just done a reread of the first twenty pages, and I hate how alvinz hardly made any posts.

I'm not quite sure as to whom I'm leaning towards the most at the moment - but I don't it's strife, but I want to hear his reasoning as to why he disbelieves my claim so much.

[ShadowGirl]

I absolutely hate this.

I mean, on one hand why would Goat aggressively attack Llama's claim?WIFOM.

And if he was scum, why would he pick a target that he knew wouldn't look good? Still, WIFOM.

Llama being alive because he's a strong analyst and as such would make a good kill. WIFOM.

It's like there's a whole good cop/bad cop thing going on here but it could go either way.

Also, Llama, I'd like to mention that there's no gurantee there was another PR - as to you not wanting to choose anyone other then farside.

Ugh, I'm trying to not let any bias or any notions cloud my judgement - I've considered Llama my rolemodel, really. D:

I agree with farside, I think Goat is probably our best bet.

[ShadowGirl]

Sorry, didn't see your post until after I posted.

I agree that there would be at least one scum on the wagon.

[ShadowGirl]

Also, SG, I assume Llama is your role model because you respect his play? I'll let you in on a secret. He's really good at playing scum.. I've played with Llama when he's scum before and he had me fooled the entire game.

Yes, he's very vocal and he is a rather good analyst.

Then again, I looked up to dcorbe too. In another game if it wasn't for him we would have lost at lylo - or at least I wouldn't have seen the light on the situation.

Still, the fact that both you are so willing to lynch strife just doesn't sit well with me.

[ShadowGirl]

I do believe any of you could be scum. And that's what's killing me.

The whole argument between you and Llama... it just seems as if you're both trying so hard to condemn the other. I mean, if either of you gets lynched - it looks good for you.

[ShadowGirl]

For reference, here are your two scenarios.

Scenario 1

: LlamaFluff roleblocks ShadowGirl. ShadowGirl protects anyone.

Llama is the last scum: He has to kill ShadowGirl otherwise he gets caught as not being a real roleblocker.

Goat is the last scum: I have to kill ShadowGirl otherwise you two confirm your roles and I get lynched.

Result: Dead ShadowGirl

Scenario 2

: LlamaFluff roleblocks me. ShadowGirl protects anyone.

Llama is the last scum: He can't make a night kill otherwise he confirms me as pro-town and he gets lynched tomorrow.

Goat is the last scum: I can't make a night kill because I get roleblocked.

Result: Nobody dies.

So those are two scenarios where we can control the outcome. One involves ShadowGirl dying and the other involves nobody dying. Unless someone can come up with a logical counter to my scenarios then I think they are foolproof and we should decide which one we wish to use. I'd go for the one that allows both farside and ShadowGirl to make the decision tomorrow (Scenario 2).

Your new scenario is very different from the old ones.

Farside, I believe we're at L-1 - another vote would lynch strife.

The only thing about this plan is that the last thing I want to do at the moment is lynch strife.

Llama scum has other options then just shooting me, doesn't he?

[ShadowGirl]

I... am fully expecting a Llama/Goat pairing, but I suppose anything can happen.

This game really has been... frustrating, or at least this last day has been.

[ShadowGirl]

I'm guessing unvotes don't count at this point?

[ShadowGirl]

I'm guessing unvotes don't count at this point?

No and if Goat was scum he would be celebrating and patting Llama on the back right now.

Hm, true. Well, all we can do is wait and see...

[ShadowGirl]

Good luck, everyone.

[ShadowGirl]

Wow, I can't believe it's finally over. -collapses-

Actually, the whole reason I said I specifically mentioned that Llama was my role model [even though it was true] was so that I might not get NKed.

[ShadowGirl]

Ha, it's alright. I figured that it was unlikely that I would make it through, regardless.

Taking one for the team, I suppose. Well, I'm sure it came much of surprise that I was Doc considering how horribly I was playing. xD;

[ShadowGirl]

Oh?

This was first time playing Doc, so I wasn't really sure how to go about it - I basically just played how I've played all my games. Well, this is really only the third game I've finished so there's still plenty for me to improve.

[ShadowGirl]

Well, I don't think I did too bad. I made it to lylo, didn't I?

That's what I had in mind, really - I figured that mafia would keep me around just because I was an easy mislynch. Not to say I was trying to play horribly or anything. >>

[ShadowGirl]

Thank you. I probably should have figured that if Llama wasn't NKed he'd be scum, but that was WIFOM. And then on the last night I was fairly sure I was gone, but I protected farside for the off chance that I might be chosen to make the choice.

[ShadowGirl]

Well, if I didn't choose you I would have chosen dcorbe and either way it wouldn't have saved anyone.