Mini Normal 2124 [Endgame]

[Churros]

I'm reading the game but it's quite lenghty.

@mod, any chance you can give me an extension to the deadline to catch up? It's a lot of reading.

[Churros]

Flavor Leaf seems to be the best at everything here. Especially at humility . Not so AI for now, but sure fun.

One of the most underrated posts of this game so far.

[Churros]

Hi Luna. What's up?

Wanna talk with me about the game?

I would say we might not be doing too bad here even with all those town flips.

[Churros]

I'm jumping my gun a bit here by talking early but...

My first question to this lobby is, if Farkran info about the setup is true, and there's both a Even-Gunsmith and "Disloyal" Friendly Neighbor claimed, why you didn't instantly lynch the FN.

If you count the roleblocker, it would be 3 investigatives for a 13p game.

The tracker, the roleblocker, the vigilante and the gunsmith also all had nerfs/limitations on them. The mafia being enabler makes the tracker don't turn OP for scum team in late game, roleblocker can RB town PRs, gunsmith can have a false positive on vigilante that would claim later in game because of novice. They limit themselves, both by themselves and their interactions. I do note as well that there's a flavour of "Odd/Even/Not every night" in those PRs.

But...in the other side you have a limitless investigative role that if used correctly and not claimed could out/clear the game later on or by dying. Even without much help from the other PRs.

How does that make any sense together? I'm failing to understand how that setup speculation was accepted?

[Churros]

However, I've not read the game, therefore I need a lot more context before making my decision.

This instantly stuck out to me though. I don't think all those claims are real and the chemistry between a Town Odd-Tracker/Town Even Gunsmith/Town Novice Vigilante/Mafia Tracker Enabler is too good for me to think there's something wrong there. It seems a block of PRs that I would expect mastina/schadd to approve of.

It seems organic.

Disloyal FN though?

No.

[Churros]

Yeah, I'm like, seriously jumping my gun here but I thought that if FL is scum, power is the partner and the soft on him is to prevent him from being lynched or at least try to help out the slot.

I do note the slot has been replaced out twice as well.

[Churros]

After which Farkran pushed for a massclaim of all the softed PRs, and well it spiraled out of control from there.

That's important info as well, thanks.

FL didn't know the real setup before the claim in that case, and wouldn't know that Disloyal FN would be a especially sore thumb to look at here.

[Churros]

Disloyal FN though?

There was an ascetic disloyal FN in Titus vs Alisae game which both FL and Aaron were part of.
That might have something to do which annoys me coz it sounds like both something the mod would include and something FL would fake claim.

I don't have seen the game but Titus vs Alisae sounds like a very different setup vibe game than...a normal properly reviewed.

It's not the claim itself either, the matter isn't "Disloyal FN is an unnaceptable role". It's "Disloyal FN doesn't mesh together with the other claimed PRs".

The role has no chemistry with anything else. It's inorganic in a game that if you pay attention, every other PR has interaction potential/chemistry with the claimed roles.

[Churros]

There's a chance that I don't know, it's a Mafia Gunsmith to try to catch the Vigilante, which would almost auto-confirm the tracker as town, but Tracker that gets deactivated easily + 2-shot RB + Vigilante with limiters + Disloyal FN seems a lot less plausible than...Flavor just being scum/fake claimed.

If FL is scum though, he'll probably try to claim something else/double-down, just saying in advance.

You shouldn't let him do that, ever.

[Churros]

FL is just wolf no matter what?

Probably?

btw Churros have i ever played with you before? Just curious coz you sound familiar

I'm only coming back to the site now. We might have played but I'll leave up my identity up to your imagination.

It would amuse me thought if you said who you think I'm. Although I'm not gonna reply yes/no.

[Churros]

Torque, you have any results?

[Churros]

Got it.

I'll keep reading the game and if I change my mind about something I'll say so.

Right now, I'm on FL/Power27.

Lower possibility of Kerset.

[Churros]

Luca Blight
Eragon
Torque
Chemist1422
Luna Fox

have 1 to 2 scum in them.

Chemist confirmed town

I'm gonna write Luna as confirmed town for now

Torque is likely town because of the vigilante flip but more importantly he's probably not scum with FL?

Eragon/Luca Blight remains.

Eragon already flipped scum. "1 to 2 scum" in it.

If FL is scum, partner probably is Power slot, not Kerset?

[Churros]

It's interesting to note that Eragon/Luca Blight had barely posted, or not posted at all yet, when FL made that post.

[Churros]

Being intelectually honest with FL, that list is mostly the lurkish slots up to that post, but Kerset hadn't been saying much either at that time but he didn't include her in the list. That's what got my attention.

[Churros]

you have Eragon green?

Surely you're joking

Maybe Saudade is in fact the most brilliant player.

[Churros]

VOTE: Eragon

Let’s power lynch this, and go to the next day phase

Noting in my ISO to later.

First serious vote by FL, coincidentally when people started scum reading Eragon.

Before that he was only flirting and joking around.

[Churros]

If Eragon flips scum, Norwegian is next.

Nice link-up from nowhere when you had just said:

Norwegian is scummy but almost too scummy.

VOTE: Flavor

Yeah, page 30 and Flavor keeps getting worse every second?

If Eragon flips scum, Norwegian is next.

I’m sorry if it might sound like i’m a little bit out of the loop. But where did this association between me and Eragon come from?

Norwe asking the real questions, again.

Flavor ignores it though and just goes for:

Alright, let's just lynch Norwegian then. Does the same thing except I have to post more to make it happen

[Churros]

I should wait until he’s done reading. Idk why I thought he was done.

Sorry if wrong FL, but I keep thinking you gotta go the more I read the game.

[Churros]

FL starts off by saying the classic "Too scummy to be scum" to Norwe that at that point is lynchbait, people begin to get heat on Eragon and he gets out of super chill zone to "let's lynch Eragon guys", but quickly backtracks to Eragon, links Eragon to Norwe and fishes for a hook into Norwe wagon without looking bad for later days since he did vote Eragon.

Coupled with the FN claim that has no chemistry with the other roles, I find lynching him pretty positive.

FL you say your role makes sense in this setup. Alright.

Tell me one interaction chemistry your role has with the rest of the PRs.

[Churros]

I also was actively Town Blocking Norwegian the majority of Day 2.

Day 2 has a different context?

In day 1, what I saw you doing there was out of nowhere coming guns blazing in the game when Eragon gets heat, but trying to fish for the possibility in the mislynch on Norwe, and in the next pages, while nomnom, norwe, fark and alisae kept arguing over things, you went quiet settled on Eragon wagon. You only come back to post about Chemist copping you and how it makes you town (your NAI gimmicks).

You didn't even talk about norwe anymore in day 1 when everyone gave up on him, and even tries to pre-emptively take Saudade's credit on Eragon here:

Yeah he's L-2

Marshal, do you see scum motivation in Saudade leading a wagon on Eragon? Can you explain why?

I feel like I lead the wagon, Saudade just voted first. This is an odd post

You clearly didn't lead anything. You voted Eragon in 3rd, suggested switching to Norwe, Eragon got even more heat, you tried by the end to say you lead Eragon wagon even before his flip.

[Churros]

I'm now starting to doubt FL just due to the way how he keeps changing his reads. I was leaning town on him because he was on the Eragon wagon on day 1 and now I don't even know.

He literally just parked his vote on Eragon when Eragon got heat and even suggested going for Norwe. He didn't actively push Eragon ever, not even gave real reasons to his vote or for the connection he was trying to make between Eragon/Norwe.

Even saying he lead the wagon later, when in fact he did nothing, before even theoretically being able to know Eragon was scum.

In this day 1 I've read he looked like the definition of scum that knows that a buddy is getting lynched but has his vote on them therefore he's safe. Coupled with the Disloyal FN I would incentive you to vote with us.

Tracker, Roleblocker, Tracker Enabler.

Ok, what exactly your role balances on them, what kind of connection there is between those roles, etc?

I've already asked it twice but you can't properly explain it, and it makes me think it's because you're aware that your role sticks out in the block or has no connection.

[Churros]

This is not how scum me plays.

He says this every game, no matter alignment.

Ignore Adorable. Read him by what you think of his actions, not what he says.

[Churros]

FL you're next btw

Gonna hang you like a little boy

Saudade

has died, he was a

Vanilla Townie

If FL flips town I'll reconsider my reads but I've no reason to at the moment?

FL, I'll hear out your reads if you flip town if I'm alive in the next day, if you want to leave anything behind feel free to.

Saudade

has died, he was a

Vanilla Townie

If FL flips town I'll reconsider my reads but I've no reason to at the moment?

FL, I'll hear out your reads if you flip green and I'm alive in the next day, if you want to leave anything behind feel free to.

[Churros]

I mean, Farkran kill also points towards FL i think.

I wouldn't rely on night kill analysis often, the Saudade thing is a lot more about the fact that Saudade, the one that truly caught Eragon in the first posts, thought FL was a partner rather than "Saudade nightkill points to FL".

Anyway, now that I've my foot in this game I just wanna chill.

[Churros]

I would like if someone not called FL for obvious reasons would sanity check me on this.
Am I missing something.

You're thinking too much about it Sakura.

I don't see plausible reasons to leave FL in LyLo, do you? It's a positive lynch no matter how I look at it, and one I'm quite happy on calling it red.

Maybe you should just play some touhou games, come back and park your vote with us?

Did you play that new metradovania-like new touhou? I'm thinking about getting it but they say it's pretty short. Not sure if it's worth it.

[Churros]

Did you play that new metradovania-like new touhou?

The only one i played was touhou luna nights, dunno if there's any other but im broke anyway.

Yeah, it's that one.

VOTE: FL
I think im happy here.

Alright. Now Adorable, join us. I know deep in your heart you want to smash that vote down.

Two more votes and we'll be having a FL barbecue, drinks on me.

p-edit: woah, looks like it's L-1. You can take your time now I guess but don't delay it too much. If you're in doubt chat up with us instead of lurking.

[Churros]

FL I didn't know you were such a fan of barbecue though.

Even getting ahead of Adorable in the line, how greedy.

If you flip town I'll consider Torque as your final read in that case?

[Churros]

Isnt that a self-hammer?
You, Torque, Me, himself?

No we need one more dollar to buy all the supplies for the party.

We've gotta wait for Adorable or Kerset now, but they said traffic is pretty busy out there right now.

[Churros]

I keep repeating words in my phrases.

Sometimes I feel pity to whoever has to read my posts. Only sometimes though.

[Churros]

Oh wait, I thought it was 5 to lynch. It's only 4.

FL is lynched. Understandable as either alignment.

[Churros]

Why’d ya have to white knight me

I play DPS

[Churros]

I knew immediately who you were

Supposing you're correct, what gave me away?

Am I that bad at acting? I didn't try to hide it but I didn't try to make it obvious either.

[Churros]

Before day ends, I'm gonna leave that I think most likely partner is Power27, again.

However, if Power27 is town, I wouldn't automatically 100% look into Kerset.

Torque isn't completely cleared in my opinion yet, it can be a brilliant fake claim from a Mafia Gunsmith, which purpose is to find the Vigilante in town.

However...that looks kind of unlikely, really. Even unbalanced, because town power would be questionable in a setup where the Gunsmith isn't town.

Easy answer is Power27, but yeah, don't completely remove Torque yet. In case it ends up in Torque/Kerset give the game a proper re:read.

[Churros]

No one else right now can take me head on like that, and just immediately deflate me. You got that momentum going for you. If last year was my year, this one’s yours.

Oh wow, I appreciate the comment. Although ironically I'm with a lot more casual approach this year.

Thanks FL.

[Churros]

Who’d Kerset replace?

Nobody, okay. I can’t recall a single post by them. Why is that not getting pushed

I don't think Kerset is their partner to be honest.

If it's not Power, I would say it might be Torque.

I'm pretty freaky to call it but I just keep not getting vibes of FL/Kerset here.

Torque/FL sounds more plausible than FL/Kerset.

[Churros]

I would need to have another day to read the full game to have a last decision but if I'm to leave a read, it's:

Lynch order:

Power27 > Torque > Kerset.

I've not even read Kerset, this one I can't be confident on, but FL interactions with Kerset slot just doesn't look like partners.

I need to read the context on which Torque claimed and Flavor softed inno on power27. It can still be a clever trap.

[Churros]

It’s Alisae and Kerset or Farkran and Kerset

Actually, i don’t think it’s ever Farkran and Kerset. If Farkran is scum, it’s not Kerset.

Really, if it's Kerset I'm gonna be surprised.

[Churros]

They were all hot on mislynches I think, would FL really low-key bus on day 2 when he just got a partner lynched?

I don't think so. The way he talks about the slot, he seems just to see it as tool he can discard.

Partner is either Power or Torque in my opinion.

[Churros]

I'm see'ing Day 2 EoD and FL hopped on Kerset out of nowhere.

I'm trying to get a shortcut about not reading the full game but honestly, the self-doubt is crippling on me.

The Gunsmith should be town but...I just keep having doubts...

[Churros]

Bah.

I'm out with the self-doubt.

Torque is town. He should be town.

It's either Kerset or Power, let's go.

If I'm wrong fuck me. It's just a game.

[Churros]

I hadn't read Torque ISO either before.

Now that I've read some of it, I feel better about the town read.

Yeah, let's go with Power/Kerset guys.

GG if it's secretly Torque.

[Churros]

I don't have a preference over Power/Kerset anymore by the way.

Reading the context on which FL claimed soft, and his late bus on Kerset, I think it can go either way and it's something we don't need to solve. Any of them in any order is fine, since we've 2 lynches left. Both equally need to go.

Our unique caution would be Torque, but yeah, I want to binge town in that slot.

[Churros]

As long as FL isn't ultra-trolling, if he flips scum I'm considering this game over.

We win if it's Kerset or Power.

We lose if it's Torque.

At least for me. I don't plan to do much around here anymore. See you guys.

[Churros]

By the way I seriously doubt we ever have a mafia doctor with a novice, non consecutive vigilant. It would nerf too much the vigilant, which theoretically is already nerf'ed both by itself and the gunsmith false positive.

Therefore, Luna is always town here.

That's it from me, good luck.

[Churros]

That's true.

I was really sleepy yesterday, even forgot to take your action in consideration. You're in auto-lose as scum if you come out with a result tomorrow.

But I would town read you either way after properly reading your ISO to be fair, I had jumped my gun by trying a read on you before looking at your ISO. Your interactions with FL yesterday doesn't look buddy-like.

[Churros]

Kerset sweetie we already lynched FL

that looks like quite a pre-write wall.

[Churros]

He self-voted.

[Churros]

Kerset, you're late to the party.

Next time don't get stuck in scum chat traffic.

[Churros]

It's actually Kerset I think.

[Churros]

I had a post about Kerset before the day came to an end, I would have posted it yesterday but thread got locked.

-- // --

"You fearmonge in the possibility of me being scum, but was suspect of FL + Power27. If you thought FL is scum there's no need to go around shading me first thing in the morning, the natural reaction would be to consider me probably town since I had been leading on FL yesterday (which you seemed to have read at least partially and would surely have seen my thoughts on FL).

The fact you try to fearmonge on me is because you probably need my mislynch to win this game. I wouldn't organically be the first person for you to think it's a FL partner, therefore if you were town you would likely just come to agree on some level with my arguing on FL. Instead, you post a pre-written wall that connects Power27 + FL but tries to open up a possibility for me as well.

You weren't actively trying to solve FL in those posts you're giving a speech to the public to look good. You don't take any agency in changing the status quo by yourself there.

I hadn't know the context on which FL had softed an inno on Power27 before, therefore I thought power27 had gotten a lot closer to being lynched, but didn't. It was mostly FL going crazy for no reason.

The last one is probably Kerset. The chance I'm wrong on this is low and it would always be Power27 as long as this universe is a reasonable place.

[Churros]

Do you even know my timezone...
Whatever, i hate you all for not listening to me. You all will ruin this game by lollynching.

This post just don't give town vibes

Like, FL had already been lynched and confessed to being scum

What would we be exactly ruining

Not only it wasn't LyLo but from her pov FL would have been a good lynch, especially since she was tying FL + Power together. Even if she thought I might be scum I don't see how this is the kind of comment she makes as town.

[Churros]

Let's win this for the homies guys.

Kerset...you're the blackened.

VOTE: Kerset

[Churros]

I mean, I have both of you in the PoE so dunno about being stupid but ok

You're just like, scummier.

The entire game in your ISO you didn't do anything worth town reading for, etc.

I know as a fact that it's already auto-win for town here so I don't mind if I'm wrong on you.

[Churros]

Kerset how can I convince you to self vote if you're not gonna vote Power27

[Churros]

I've ticket for discounts on games in steam

Or fried churros

We could make business

[Churros]

This is really funny regardless of who of you is scum

[Churros]

Kerset you really have no reason to not self-hammer as either alignment to be fair if you aren't gonna case Power

[Churros]

Power is being lynched next if you're town

I want you to self hammer to end this game already

As long as scum is in you/Power it's already game over, whoever of you is mafia should have conceived...

[Churros]

Power, you should gamethrow as well.

[Churros]

Everyone should gamethrow.

VOTE: churros

[Churros]

VOTE: kerset

[Churros]

Luna when you stop playing touhou feel free to hammer Kerset and if she's town lynch Power tomorrow.

See you.

[Churros]

If Luna is mafia doctor this will be funny

Anyhow

VOTE: power27

I don't feel like fearmongering in the possibility. I TR her play anyway.

[Churros]

Luna, this is mostly a rethoric question but if you for any reason isn't sure of your answer feel free to ask me a few things.

Just don't overdue or delay it too much.

[Churros]

I've no idea why FL decided to do this play here either. My best guess is he did it for the hell of it. It sounds like sub-optimal play even considering the WIFOM it caused which resulted in Kerset lynch.

If he hadn't claimed something as odd as Disloyal Neighbour, his own slot would have been in a better position, as would maybe power27 too. The lurker slot only had 2 votes on him, no need to FL put it in the spotlight/connect himself to the partner.

It's a really weird game. When I said FL/Power27 I had thought FL was half-forced to take this sub-optimal position, but he wasn't. If this isn't a Luna troll, FL is a real madman for the best or worse.

I've not much sympathy for Kerset either, being lukewarm about FL all game, even suggesting FL + Power27 because of the soft, but never really taking agency in their own hands and doing it. When we lynch FL, even saying "You'll ruin the game". Weren't those people your lynch pool in a day where almost half the town were confirmed...?

Anyway...

[Churros]

Imagine how harder it sounds to lynch FL as quickly as we did without a Disloyal Neighbour claim.

Realize as well that we would have a harder time associating Power27 to him, because it wouldn't be obvious, for all we know Power27 could just be a lurking dude that is often too common these days without the connection.

What FL was massively negative while it would be massively positive if it was FL/Kerset and he tied himself to Power27 to get an easy mislynch. That's what I assumed yesterday anyway.

[Churros]

I said everything I wanted to say about this game now.

Luna I'm gonna go play. I may or may not check this in a few hours to reply any questions.

p-edit: He bussed Eragon?

[Churros]

And yes power looks like obvscum but i feel im left alive because it's not so easy

I know you're going to take this with a grain of salt but as scum I'm a mildly calculating person and I would always NK you here to hint at "you know, Luna was absolutely sure that it was power over me and now she's died".

Adorable thought it was likely power27 or kerset anyway, it would make it even more convincing that it's power27 instead of leaving you, the most confident on me alive.

Not NK'ing you if I was the last scum would be kind of a rookie mistake, because you were confirmed while Adorable wasn't, therefore you getting NK'd would be more natural.

Power27 unique hope here when both of you thought it was likely him, would be to play for WIFOM, which he apparently did (not one hundred sure, I feel like there's a chance he thinks he should always kill the PR).

[Churros]

If you already have your answer, write it down and let no one judge you.

Really Luna, breath in and out. Is there any substantial reason you're considering voting me other than being afraid I'm this super deepwolf?

I came in the game saying that things might be simple, as in "Disloyal Neighbour is scum" simple. Disloyal Neighbour was in fact scum.

This time around it's simple as well.

FL softed a clear on Power27 thinking they could get through this game somehow together because he was already down one partner and didn't want to lose another one.

It's just power27.

[Churros]

Alisae thought there was any possibility of FL being town with a disloyal neighbour claim together with odd-tracker/even-gunsmith...

Power27 isn't even trying as well. Just like yesterday he came, voted and nop'ed out.

[Churros]

This is LyLo and he is in front of a deepwolf in this gamestate, while you think he is likely the culprit.

Do you think town!Power27 just this one out like this instead of at least arguing a bit?

Or does it sound more like scum!Power27 that doesn't think he has a chance of winning therefore isn't even trying?

[Churros]

Do you think town!Power27 just this one out like this instead of at least arguing a bit?

Do you think town!Power27 just sits this one out?*

I know I'm forcing into you reasons but it's because this is so...naked. If I leave now I'm not checking out this game/the forum until after around 48 hours, I would feel better finishing this now.

I'm looking forward to post-game rants as well.

[Churros]

He conveniently came just as the thread opened therefore it's not a lack of time or anything.

He comes, vote in, ask for you to reconsider, and flakes out like he did yesterday. He's not putting any effort into fighting even though victory is in his grasps if town.

As scum you get a lot more overwhelmed when everyone scum reads you, just like what happened to him, in which their defeatist attitude makes a lot more sense.

It makes sense why he didn't participate yesterday as well.

[Churros]

Ok my time expired out.

Good luck Luna, take it easy.

[Churros]

I almost paranoia'd myself into the wrong decission, lol.

That's what I was afraid of. Posted a lot because of that.

By the way what I said was true, I always kill you there and hint, not properly say, to adorable about the fact you town read me the most between the two, and now was dead.

I never really bring the person trusting me the most yesterday to LyLo as scum. It doesn't vibe well.