Mini Normal 2132 [Game Over]

[bob3141]

So, of course it's a reach, but do we have any hard info on meta-tells on any of these people?

this is a wacky thing to say. do you usually commence the metadiving within the first couple of dozen posts?

I think it's a reference back to the 50p that Wake modded where metadiving was a very big thing.

I've seen/read though like 6 Wake games, but they were all town. I may or may not have gained some knowledge while impersonating him in the 50 player large for a bit. Wake, have you rolled scum in the last year?

if waka hasnt rolled scum this year

gambler's fallacy here i come

VOTE: waka

[bob3141]

damn bob, wake is a 4-letter word. How do you misspell it twice in such a short post

i never checked the spelling

[bob3141]

i think i will continue to follow gambler's fallacy.

hectic not been in game with scum you

VOTE: Hetic

the fallacy has hectic and wake as partners

[bob3141]

Bob do you make burgers?

Specifically llama burgers?

Are those burgers for llamas or burgers made out of llamas

[bob3141]

I didn't realize bob was here. Definite scum.

VOTE: bob

Could you explain that confidence here?

Let me double check.

@bob -- are you scum this game?

@bob -- Before I definitively report back to Wake, can you answer this for me?

The question is what do you think?

Was this a serous question

[bob3141]

at first galnce i woudl say alorat seems different from his scum game. There he was say x and y was scum without any reason.

[bob3141]

im think alort is town for now. Although he migth of upped his scum game.

In his scum game his pushes and interactions were hollow. His day oen push on me that game was little more than saying x and y were partners. But never made any pushs or reason why he thought they were partners. nor why he though one of them was scum

[bob3141]

[bob3141]

prety much everything he has done.

He has actualy given opinions. Last game he was so obvous as scum.

Still early days though but athst my intial impression

[bob3141]

davesaz: Who is your favourite philosopher from history? You have philosopher-indicative tells.

I'm actually more an inventor / polymath type, but The Thinker embraces the general idea of thinking twice (or more) and acting once. So I don't really have a favorite philosopher per se. Da Vinci from the renaissance era, Edison from the modern.

Very nice. Dave locktown for this. My favourite modern inventor is Tim Berners-Lee.

Hectic do you sense that the alo vs wake debate will conclude in some alignment indicative clues (those 2 players or otherwise)

It seems like much ado about nothing which is ultimately a distraction

Do you mean Alo vs Bobman? If so; yes. I can see scum!Aloratom dancing around Bobman's serious question of why he was asking him that that, and what he was hoping to learn from it, and responding with a joke in 231.

Also, I kinda want to have more of Aloratom's ISO be talking about the Bobman.

I cant help but wonder why you think there was even a alort vs bob. Based on the interaction we had you could say that about anyone even askign anything of anyone in this game

Seems to me that you trying to make something out of nothing

[bob3141]

will catch up tommorrow

[bob3141]

at first galnce i woudl say alorat seems different from his scum game. There he was say x and y was scum without any reason.

So Bob, gotta ask -- in this game he said you were scum without any reason.
If that's what he does in scumgames, then why were you so nonchalant about it here?

This feels a little selective. I say alor in general is not acting like he was in his scum game. And you jump on the fact that he made a quick early scum read. Although he may of given a bit of a scum read at the same time he is saying things like in post 262. Where he says he hasnt got handle on me. Thus what ever read he has is not strong. With this same read being a page 4 read and not real much of big deal.

What level of reason wuld you expect anyoen to have so early into teh game. where if everyone posted equally no one woudl hae more than 7 posts. With me havign 3 or so mostly rvs posts. What level of reason would you realy expect any player to have at that point.

And everything else regarding me in his posts has not been to push me but just generaly commenting on early events in neutral manner.


In his scum game he as active in throwing shade around and persistently push the same reads and pushs even though he never backed them up

[bob3141]

The reason I have you bottom of my reads is because the stances you've taken thus far are easy and ones taken by a few others already (dave and Wake town). I want to hear more reasoning/independent thoughts from you, which is why I'm asking if your Eyes of Misgiving are pointing anywhere yet.

how would you say your stance differ?


Not saying your doign the same but what to hear in your words how you woudl describe every push and stance you have taken and how you think it compares.


Also do you think any of his thoughts? Even as if they are as you suggest unoriginal?

As its bit easy to say unoriginal to interact while also avoiding truely commenting on them

[bob3141]

tictac (4): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, SirCakez, Wake88

The question is. Does this wagon have scum in it or have scum avoided it.

If scum have avoided it, then why. Is tic scum or does scum not want to be see to go after lurker lynch.

I certainly cant see more than one of them being scum. If tic flips town.

[bob3141]

I just dont see the incentive.


If tic tac is scum. Then my gut is saying that one of those push for tic tac lynch. Is in fact scum trying to bus a weak slots to get an advantage.

[bob3141]

Waka since your now voting tictac. How does your belief that tictac is scum thats shut down affect your ealier belief to vote Alort?

[bob3141]

Gamma i see your voting tictac from an early rvs vote.


Is your vote on him now serous?
And what do you think of those choosing not to vote or vote for tictac?

[bob3141]

will catchup when i have time tommorrow

[bob3141]

Chemist1422 (4): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic, profii
Aloratom (4): Chemist1422, davesaz, AaronFrost, Wake88

ok we have two wagons so far.

Chemist what do you think of alort yourself. As i see that your vote was originaly cast by tictac. Do you agree with it?

[bob3141]

at first galnce i woudl say alorat seems different from his scum game. There he was say x and y was scum without any reason.

So Bob, gotta ask -- in this game he said you were scum without any reason.
If that's what he does in scumgames, then why were you so nonchalant about it here?

This feels a little selective. I say alor in general is not acting like he was in his scum game. And you jump on the fact that he made a quick early scum read. Although he may of given a bit of a scum read at the same time he is saying things like in post 262. Where he says he hasnt got handle on me. Thus what ever read he has is not strong. With this same read being a page 4 read and not real much of big deal.

What level of reason wuld you expect anyoen to have so early into teh game. where if everyone posted equally no one woudl hae more than 7 posts. With me havign 3 or so mostly rvs posts. What level of reason would you realy expect any player to have at that point.

And everything else regarding me in his posts has not been to push me but just generaly commenting on early events in neutral manner.


In his scum game he as active in throwing shade around and persistently push the same reads and pushs even though he never backed them up

Did you think that RVS post where I voted you was a serious post?

Bob -- I don't know if you missed this. While all that dumb stuff between Wake and me was going on it seemed that you realized that my vote on you was RVS but your answer to Dave seems a little different. Do you really think I made a "quick early scum read" on you?

I think you made a read strength based off the time. The read in itself wasnt note worthy as players can get scum reads early but they tend not to be set in stone.

At the moment im leaning towards you being town and dave trying to make a case out of something. As its not like you really stuck to it. Felt to me like a sligth early scum read re-evaluated and i can see it that happening. Someimes a player will push and other times they will change their mind earlier

[bob3141]

VOTE: Dave


Time for more serous vote than mine on hectic.


Hectic if your not scum, so far every game together has been town town

[bob3141]

VOTE: Dave


Time for more serous vote than mine on hectic.


Hectic if your not scum, so far every game together has been town town

You are going to need to put much more behind this rather than the vote alone. May I here why is dave scum formally?

I dont like alort lynch. and tic/chem have had little input.

Its not strong read but gut feeling on dave

[bob3141]

but overall dave just feels off to me/

I dont feel town dave would have jumped onto alort for something so small. I feel he might have started pushing him over more but not just for giving a early weak scum read. that was changed rather quickly with that added to the fact that he real hasnt moved off him.

Migth have talked about others but has just stuck to him

[bob3141]

tweet are you talking about chemists one shot jail keeper claim.

Its a weak claim as it realy only has one shot if true. And unlikely to be self resolving nor be strong choice for scum trying to avoid beign lynched. If he was scum i woudl have assumed he would have just claimed jailkeeper.

But last game i was in chem claimed assetic doc even though plain doc would have been a better claim

[bob3141]

Corrected soem grammar

tweet are you talking about chemists one shot jail keeper claim.

Its a weak claim as it realy only has one shot if true. And unlikely to be self resolving nor be a strong choice for scum trying to avoid being lynched. If he was scum i would have assumed he would have just claimed jailkeeper.

But in 2119 were he was scum chem claimed assetic doc even though a plain doc would have been a better.

[bob3141]

Bob

What on earth are you talking about. When have you even asked me anything. The most you have done related to me is


a. ask about alorts game to which I answered

b. ask players generaly for their reads on me - to which you did not follow up at all

Did you even care about other players reads on me. What did you think of their answers or lack of answers.

c. A recent statement of no real value. A scum read with no backing.

Dave why do you think i am scum?

You havent even given a flimsy reason for why you think im scum.



So dave why do you think im scum? All your doing so far by the looks of it is trying to shade me.

a. when i mention that i town read alort
b- When ive pointed out the way you have stubbornly pushed alort does not feel anyway like how you push as town.

And ive been in 4 of your town games and quickly read your iso in the 2020. It just feels off

[bob3141]

I'm torn between treating this as a scummy thing from Alo, or thinking it points to Alo traitor signaling to (Bob IIRC?). I have no special reasons to suspect a traitor, but there are certain interactions that just ping and this is one of those categories.

I have thought this for a long time and nothing has happened to remove the thought.

And what are those thoughts?

See at no point have you actual said any reasons as to why you think im scum.


Explain how you have came to such a conclusion.

You say your thinking hasnt changed. Yet in reality you have not justified any of it.

Dave explain why one should take this as you simply trying to shade me

[bob3141]

correction- (missed nt)

Dave explain why one shouldnt take this as you simply trying to shade me

[bob3141]

Two wagons, both have high resistance, neither player says much about the other. Both scum?

And do you think this is scum indicative?

Two wagons keep getting pushed and you think scum isnt atleast pushing one.

Rather you think they are both scum?



Why do you think it anything of note tic/chem hasnt said much about alort. when that slot havent said much in general. How does thats slots actions have any inpact on any read on alort?

[bob3141]

Hello
VOTE: Alora

[bob3141]

where is my post

[bob3141]

Bob, you answered it right there. Chemist hasn't said much yet is voting alo hence why a SvS makes some sense.

original was longer


Show me where chemist voted alort. You cant because he never did.

tic voted alort in post 5.


So tell me how dave can make any conclusion based off chemist on alort slot. All he could possibily say is chemist slot has not tried.

Now he could say that means chem is scum or town. But not try and push s/s

[bob3141]

Dropping the vote with no reason would be associative. Scum chemist might have a less important role and prefer to be lynched over a partner. That points to svs too.

Again you out right shade chemist by sayign he voted alort. When he never did.


Tell me again how that fact changes your opinion on this evidence you claim to see. that makes alort and chem svs

Ive not been following teh game during teh week and in my catchup of teh vote counts i spotted that striaght away.


How did you not notice when you ahev hight post count

[bob3141]

where is my post

Spoiler: I've erased the time during which you made your lost

Wait is tictac RVS vote still chemist's vote? I'm pretty sure Chemist made a remark about voting Alo

nope just a question to alort. Where he asked alort to describe his play

[bob3141]

Aloratom voted you and was evasive on why.
Being evasive on why you voted someone, especially during RVS, is suspicious.
You seemed to be trying to ignore that this was happening.
When I asked you about it, you said "he votes people for no reason as scum" but conveniently ignored the fact he had voted you for no reason.
Only after I asked a followup, you realized that it had been a logical inconsistency. So you now tried to brush off the initial vote as RVS -- but if you realized that was the case then why try to explain it away differently in the previous question.

Neither of you are giving what I would call straightforward answers, when asked what you're thinking.
You're attacking me, when the logic of what I'm pushing is very straightforward. It's perfectly fine if you don't agree with it, even better if you can give a cohesive answer on why it's wrong, not so much that you try to dismiss it as being nothing.

Your plain and simple just ignoring what I said. While trying to claim it never happened.

Who knows maybe i wasnt clear enough. I thought it shoudl of been clear.


In alort scum game he pushed my scum read on me based on no reason


Hey guess what it was what your doing now.

I pushed against the going town mislynch and he used that to push a scum read. He could never coem up with reason i was scum on my own. Nor one for germa.


However as i said he just kept pushing it. The difference this game he came up with scum read but backed of straight away. He reevulated.

alort is talking about his different scum reads and town reads. he is interacting with them. He is not doing what he did last game and just made empty statements.


Who knows maybe his scum game has improved allot. But scum alort is just looking like an easy mislynch

[bob3141]

Not really

I couldn't tell what sort of stuff was playstyle and his answer to my question about his style was too vague to work with

And this too when asked what he got by looking over Alo iso.

That actually raises the question why chemist is still voting Alo if they cannot identify anything.

Question is does he even know. Does he look like a player that has even caught up.


If he is scum then alort is town. And scum is hard bussing him.

What happened to him last game were he repped into a scum slot. in game he mentioned 2119


And there he put more effort in.

Did you not see my posts where i asked chem if he agrees with alort lynch today. In it i pointed out his slot has vote on alort from rvs

[bob3141]

Flailing when you aren't even being voted is pretty funny, ngl.

dave coming to the rescue during those sunny days. Where there just inst any shade.


How would people avoid sunburn without untrusty dave around


No one shade like dave with his trusty pencil

[bob3141]

Bob do you think scum is on the Chem wagon if chem is town?

The question what is the scum nature of the wagon. its lurker wagon. Whether he is town or scum, its lurker a wagon.

Now since you asked for town condition


Now chemist when it hit

Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, SirCakez, Hectic, profii

was a lurker wagon.

The question is would scum go heavy.


So far sircake is sure town read of mine. My strongest infact. I think profii is town.

I doubt more than one scum would of jumped on it at that stage. Shade it yes but not jump on.

Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic


infact i think teh chemist wagon woudl have had more momentum with 2 scum voting. Scum votes act as glue.

The more votes the longer they stick around and faster they grow. Town votes tend to flake.

See menals game where scum tried to not get on wagons with 4 or more players. we had 13 different wagosn on 10 players during day one.

[bob3141]

Bob can I ask a question?

If you feel pretty good about chemist being scum why are you voting dave in the last 36~ hours? I'm not knocking you for reading him, but you agree with the chemist lynch correct?

I think chemist is blind slot.

You dont learn anything just going along with lulker lynchs.

If chemist is scum. No way scum woudlnt bus him.

If chemist is town it just lets town end up doing scum dirty work. while they just shade the slot

[bob3141]

Not really

I couldn't tell what sort of stuff was playstyle and his answer to my question about his style was too vague to work with

And this too when asked what he got by looking over Alo iso.

That actually raises the question why chemist is still voting Alo if they cannot identify anything.

Question is does he even know. Does he look like a player that has even caught up.


If he is scum then alort is town. And scum is hard bussing him.

What happened to him last game were he repped into a scum slot. in game he mentioned 2119


And there he put more effort in.

Did you not see my posts where i asked chem if he agrees with alort lynch today. In it i pointed out his slot has vote on alort from rvs

Not practically no.

Wait do you have experience with him subbing in? Can you answer my earlier question them about it? I'm a bit confused by your wording as I'm not sure you are referring to a game he subbed into a scum or town role.

Ive played with scum chemist subbing in twice


dont know if the first he was subbing into one if his alts.


All he posted more. So far he has done nothing AI.

Just feels like he is not invested. Could be scum or could be town.

If he is scum dont expect much more. Dont have town meta with him


If he is scum or town can only be learnt from what he now says about alort.

[bob3141]

Oh, you're saying you don't want to lynch Misty because even as scum he doesn't give much info. Interesting approach but I still think it has a higher likelihood than anything so best lynch.

Wait, I need to check if Gamma's posted since last time.

If chemist is scum then its one scum although might want to avoid losing are goign to be happy bus. What they are not goign to be ahhpy with is the prospect of having to bus another partner. Losing their partner and still be sadled with lurker partner.

See who other players refuse to scum read. See who they dont want day two.

Even if you still lynch the lurker slot

You learn more if its flips scum or town

i would say the odds are 50:50 on chemist. still better than 75:25.

[bob3141]

p.s. ill get back to other tommorrow. its late here and didnt realise the time.

[bob3141]

Kinda thinking it's just bob and Aloratom? That almost feels too easy though.

bob hard defended the chemist wagon near the end of the day while trying to make a push onto davesaz.

Alora hopped on at the end of day presumably to bus for the towncred. I kind of explained everything wrong with his play already.

VOTE: aloratom

Now thats shade.

I hard defended alort wagon. I said i was fine with chemist wagon and that it decent chance of flipping scum ( above random). But as always i want to lynch thr scum the scum dont want to bus

Why do you think if i was scum that i simply wouldnt hard bus chemists slot?

[bob3141]

Another option though is chem just didnt want to provide any associative information at all during day 1 given the likely hood of getting lynched. If they had start giving out reads there would be more ways to directly link people. This makes the lack of an alo read make more sense.

I'm currently not sure after thinking if scum!chem would of offer more of a fight to try and distance them if alo is indeed scum. Wouldnt it make sense to put up some opposition against your scum buddy there?

na scum chemist in that situation just pushs the slot his slot was already voting.

Why i wanted to know what he thought of alort. If he kept his vote his 50:50 odds move to 100:0

[bob3141]

Kinda thinking it's just bob and Aloratom? That almost feels too easy though.

bob hard defended the chemist wagon near the end of the day while trying to make a push onto davesaz.

Alora hopped on at the end of day presumably to bus for the towncred. I kind of explained everything wrong with his play already.

VOTE: aloratom

Now thats shade.

I hard defended alort wagon. I said i was fine with chemist wagon and that it decent chance of flipping scum ( above random). But as always i want to lynch thr scum the scum dont want to bus

Why do you think if i was scum that i simply wouldnt hard bus chemists slot?

If you're in agreement that Chemist had a high chance of flipping scum (50/50), why would you vote anywhere else?

I don't have an opinion one way or the other on whether you personally would bus or not, but your behaviour at the end of the day was very strange to me.

At this point, I think there's a really high chance that one scum bussed, and the other didn't. I think the busser is likely to be Gamma, and you're in my pool for the non busser due to the end of day counterwagon. Perhaps you A.) were caught not being able to vote Alo due to defending him previously, and B.) didn't want to bus Chem

To learn who his buddies could be


I did not like how dave was pushing alort while at the same time shadign alort by push scum claim on chemist.

At no point could dave come up with areason as to why a scum chemist has any bearing on alorts alignment. Looked to me like scum trying to offset losing chemist.

And no one shoudl forget dave choose alort over chemist. Even though he claimed to think it was svs. I would of though that he would see teh best bet to catch scum would be to vote chemist. yet he never did

[bob3141]

Do you realy think i would be afraid to bus chemist tweet.

I would bussed tic/chemist from the getgo all the while building up the alort wagon as scum.

[bob3141]

Why didnt you make 6 -3. if you realy though chemist was scum?

You were awake as you say when chemist wagon was leading. A player you thought was scum

why not simply change. As wouldnt you still be voting for a player you thought was scum.

[bob3141]

town me doesnt care. scum me is very manipulative

As scum i set up all sorts of town on town conflicts. With the aim to cause the town too collapse. All the while warping the reads of the players that scum read me.

[bob3141]

Kinda thinking it's just bob and Aloratom? That almost feels too easy though.

bob hard defended the chemist wagon near the end of the day while trying to make a push onto davesaz.

Alora hopped on at the end of day presumably to bus for the towncred. I kind of explained everything wrong with his play already.

VOTE: aloratom

Now thats shade.

I hard defended alort wagon. I said i was fine with chemist wagon and that it decent chance of flipping scum ( above random). But as always i want to lynch thr scum the scum dont want to bus

Why do you think if i was scum that i simply wouldnt hard bus chemists slot?

Ok you were fine with it, so why didn't you vote there? You tried to make a last minute push onto davesaz when the deadline was nearing and we needed a lynch. I even asked you to consolidate on one of the two wagons and you didn't.

Why did you choose alort over chemist?

You were pushing players to consolidate onto your lynch.


Sir cake had already declared the hammer so wasnt much point. If he hadnt doen so when i got on 5pm gmt i would of hammered. Thought it was quite clear it was 1am and was off to bed after spending several hours catching up. Im not exactly goinf to go on first thing after wakign up. At 11.30 am

Besides do you serously think scum spends all their time trying to shut down the counter wagon to chemist and not bus.

[bob3141]

tictac (4): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, SirCakez, Wake88
Aloratom (2): tictac, davesaz

-----

Chemist1422 (4): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic, profii
Aloratom (4): Chemist1422, davesaz, AaronFrost, Wake88

---------
Chemist1422 (5): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic, profii, HoldenGolden
Aloratom (4): Chemist1422, davesaz, AaronFrost, Wake88

--------

Chemist1422 (7): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic, profii, HoldenGolden, Aloratom, SirCakez
Aloratom (4): Chemist1422, davesaz, AaronFrost, Wake88


progression of teh alort v chemist wagons

[bob3141]

now i doubt wake is scum. Who as scum outs that they are a pr after just finding 2 pr. Rather than simply taking them out one by one at night in secret. now based off that

tictac (4): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, t, t
Aloratom (2): s, davesaz

-----

Chemist1422 (4): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic, profii
Aloratom (4): Chemist1422, davesaz, AaronFrost, Wake88

---------
Chemist1422 (5): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic, profii, HoldenGolden
Aloratom (4): s, davesaz, AaronFrost, t

--------

Chemist1422 (7): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic, profii, HoldenGolden, Aloratom, t
Aloratom (4): s, davesaz, AaronFrost, t

[bob3141]

Why did you choose alort over chemist?

You were pushing players to consolidate onto your lynch.

Because I had a read on alort and I didn't have a read on chemist, and I still think Aloratom is scum.

I was asking for players (mostly you) to consolidate on one of the two wagons. I may have preferred one over the other, but at the end of the day we lynched scum.

Besides do you serously think scum spends all their time trying to shut down the counter wagon to chemist and not bus.

Maybe not, and I've already said I think scum bussed, but I'm not sure if both scum bussed. Your end of day play was weird either way.

i had been up since 6am and my last posts was at 2am.

I wanted to see who would follow up on scum read on dave. Voting chemist overall does not give town any more info.

Sicne no takers it makes it highly unlikely that alort is scum. Do you not think that if it was alort and chemist that scum doesnt try and jump on the dave wagon. All we had was you expressing that you felt dave came of worse

[bob3141]

now takign account that i just dont think alort is scum

tictac (4): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, t, t
Aloratom (2): s, davesaz

-----

Chemist1422 (4): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic, profii
Aloratom (4): Chemist1422, davesaz, AaronFrost, Wake88

---------
Chemist1422 (5): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic, profii, HoldenGolden
Aloratom (4): s, davesaz, AaronFrost, t

--------

Chemist1422 (7): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic, profii, HoldenGolden, t, t
Aloratom (4): s, davesaz, AaronFrost, t

[bob3141]

now does scum holden vote chemist at that point breaking the tie.

Also does scum put all their eggs in one counter basket. Waka town implies taht for all 3 scum to be pushing a counter wagon it would have to be chemist, aaron and dave. Which i feel is unlikely

Maybe one at most of dave and aaron might be scum. Cant see them both being scum

[bob3141]

look at his wagon in 2119. It was t v s in that one.

And he ended up getting lynched. He pushed harder but much more. Never said why he agreed looker was scum in that game. With him just giving a serous of catchup scum read lists

[bob3141]

@Holden in regards to post 866.

I take all things into account. Mostly i just hunt for players showing signs of hidden info. If you dont try and get players to twist and turn you will never be able to get cracks to open.

[bob3141]

Would you eat a cooked llama burger?

What?! She may enjoy the good taste of a thick juicy slab of cooked llama goodness, smothered between a freshly pick sheet of lettuce, hand peeled onions, melted cheese, and two big wholesome wheat buns?

I'm going to propose modding a mini flavored around 101 ways to cook a llama. My gift to you and MT

I would join that game, but only to raise awareness of your horrific actions against humanity and to form a save-the-llamas-coalition. I think lynching naysayers would be more important than lynching scum in that game. Back me up here, Morning.

i will join it if it comes to be, but know that I'm appalled by your imagery and you should feel bad ノ;﹏;ノ

@bob

, what's the conclusion you have from the analysis you're doing?

and adorable, are you saying this points to town!Alo or scum!Alo? I'm sorry if im missing the bottom line of what you're saying. So Chem left to avoid forming any associatives because she thought that her lynch was inevitable. I think this is likely, yes. but are you deducing anything other than just that observation?

Its just an in intial pass to narrow down the field. To see which slots its most worthwhile to look into first

[bob3141]

Out of interest - @Bob - who in this player list has the most respect for your scum hunting skills?

I hope someone does

[bob3141]

Out of interest - @Bob - who in this player list has the most respect for your scum hunting skills?

I hope someone does

I'm asking you- if you had to pick a slot, who would you pick

Myself

[bob3141]

Its just an in intial pass to narrow down the field. To see which slots its most worthwhile to look into first

That looks like an answer to the "why" but it doesn't seem to answer what your conclusions are.

Dont forget not everything needs a conclusion. After all does it look like ive finished thinking on the subject


Never expect conclusions wedsday to friday either.


But quick


order of likely scum off the wagon

aaron > dave > tweet

aaron interactions with my push on you during day one just felt faked and forced

order on the wagon not sure on still thinking

[bob3141]

@ gamma can you explain how you tictac/chemist scum read progressed during day one?

when did you first think that slot was scum?

Why did you think that slot was scum?

[bob3141]

Waka flocka flame has rolled scum in the last year

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=81560

Oh God lol. I remember reading a bit of that when it was happening and I thought Wake's entrance felt a lot townier than usual.

Oh shit

Didn't realize town won that game

yay!

Also AaronFFrost gets townpoints for the Survivor meme

So other than this meme what do you think of arraon.

What points though out the game have left you thinking aaron is town. And at any point has anything he has doen even for bit caused you to reconsider? Even if was onyl short.

[bob3141]

PT cop would be the very last thing I'd think of.
Hinting you know someone has a PT on day 1 is a traitor tell.

I think dave is town for this approach

Can you explain what it was about his approach that lead you to his conclusion?

Dave was pushing alort in regards to this, what do you think of alort?

[bob3141]

I realized something about the tictac wagon-- I think regardless of tictac's alignment, there's probably scum on it. Okay maybe that's not a super hard deduction to make but bear with me here

I agree with this

VOTE: aaron actually
I'm less certain Chemist is scum here and Aaron is not making me feel good about this wagon

Cake your here. Why does chemist feel less scummy to you?

He seems just lost and confused. Also that would be a weird choice of fakeclaim imo.
I feel scum would be freaking out more

The claim may not necessarily be fake, he could just be a scum 1-shot jailkeeper. I think I want to leave that claim alone for today though.

Also I disagree with that last sentence, I think more often than not scum try to maintain their composure when under pressure.

My take is a 1-Shot PR is a good option for a safe scum fakeclaim. I have tried it myself, though I fucked up the execution with too many bells and whistles. I don’t see anything indicating Chemist is fakeclaiming but I don’t think his claim is in itself a point for his survival.

Gamma what made you think that it was a safe fakeclaim?


I find this last bit interesting.

Care to talk us through by what you meant by survival?


You dont talk about risk about lynching town pr but survival. survival has different connotation to the usual phrasing town players use during this time.

[bob3141]

How do you feel about Hectic?

slightly town. In the null spectrum. Will be taking a greater look at that slot along with the rest of the votes around him

[bob3141]

Why is Bob doing VCA in D2

but what do you think of this though?

Your askign others but what do you think?

[bob3141]

Bob your d1 posts tended very strongly toward statements vs questions.
Today (and RL today in particular) tends much more toward questions.
Why the shift in approach?

one is when im analyzing , the other is when im interrogating. Normally the later takes less time so i do it on my work days and analysis teh result asn otehr stuff on my weekend

[bob3141]

Chemist claimed and then he disappears for 3 days. Why did he not interact with other players and figure out who the scum are rather than giving up? Town should fight for their lynch figuring out who is scum and Chemist disappearing like that this is the kind of play I always find suspicious.

Chemist already flipped tho so

Who specifically do you think he was avoiding interactions with?

Holden pretty much said this and I think this is what Chemist wanted to do. It looked like Chemist didn't want to provide any associative information during day 1 when he gets lynched. If Chemist did started giving out reads and interacting with anyone, then there would have been some hints for us to work with figuring out who his scum buddies could be.

What do you make of bob here and on day 1? Do you think his logic makes sense and you agree with it, it doesn't make sense, or somewhere inbetween?
What are your stances towards people not name chem?
Would you eat a cooked llama burger?

From what I saw from bob that stood out to me he scum reads davesaz and votes him and he said Chemist is a 50/50 for him. Reading bob's post it looked like he was saying he wanted to lynch a slot he is scum reading instead of a player that he is 50/50 on. A player being 50/50 I would consider that a null read. Seeing that Chemist flipped mafia, bob is one of those players I've got on my poe.

Some of the players have been asking me the same question and I'll get to that after I reply to the posts that are responding back to me.

25:75 is null. well 23: 77 but who doesnt round up aka the odds of randomly picking someone

50:50 is scum lean but still pending an answer.

by sayign 50:50 im saying chemist is better than random. aka I endorsed a chemist lynch


dont forget for every 1 scum there is 3 town. So 50:50 is bad tern to use for null as its doesnt match the odds of scum/total players

[bob3141]

How do you feel about Hectic?

slightly town. In the null spectrum. Will be taking a greater look at that slot along with the rest of the votes around him

What does that mean, "the rest of the votes around him?" I hear that and it sounds like filler

Position on the vote count.

[bob3141]

Waka flocka flame has rolled scum in the last year

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=81560

Oh God lol. I remember reading a bit of that when it was happening and I thought Wake's entrance felt a lot townier than usual.

Oh shit

Didn't realize town won that game

yay!

Also AaronFFrost gets townpoints for the Survivor meme

So other than this meme what do you think of arraon.

What points though out the game have left you thinking aaron is town. And at any point has anything he has doen even for bit caused you to reconsider? Even if was onyl short.

I remember seeing others calling Aaron scum but none of the reasoning has stuck with me so I’m going to assume the cases weren’t that good. Besides that I don’t really have much on him.

Any reason why you’re hitting me and me specifically with this battery of questions?

simply put you were the first name on the chemist wagon. So you were first

[bob3141]

Plus when i was reading through your iso I saw allot of it was light on depth.

[bob3141]

one think i will need to look at is how dead chemist was.

You have two main bussing places. early 1-2 and swing point of the wagon 3-5

If scum bussed 1-2 they can become trapped as if the slot flips it creates associations. Normally early bussers are teh last to unvote if the slot is rescued


Then you have the swing part of the wagon. Tends to be town if scum think it can be rescued. If they think its doomed then thats were scum rush to be on it

[bob3141]

Actually, I think I want to ask a followup question.

How much weight are you giving VCA vs posting?

Mostly posting with the votecounts more forming a frame work that i navigate the game through.

[bob3141]

since we have enabler whether its a scum role or town role. We can assume that it was intented to reduce the size of any neighbourhood.


Either way its a pretty moot line to follow. As more inquiry into any neighbourizer today just helps the scum

[bob3141]

Not sure if you posted but there does seem to be a general consensus along those lines.

[bob3141]

A consensus along what lines? Has anyone else examined the possibility of scum watcher?

That setup spec there bad and that why would scum watcher out his results.

4 players of which at most 2 can be scum. Would scum still have 2 roles that scum would allow them to have an action that could be tracked

So any setup spec helps scum and we shouldnt be givng scum any clues that could help them discern those roles and town players that have pr

[bob3141]

thing is dave is still a visiting role.

Scum have one shot ability so we can bet they have a another visiting role.

But does scum down one. Use another ability n1. I dont realy think so.


I never get why people keep picking at things. Didnt i say others say setup spec will only help the scum at this point. ambiguity as to what daves and tweets roles actualy are would be good for us. At would create a situation where scum could nk less optimally

[bob3141]

The only role i could see thats scum targeting hectic would be waka. As that woudl match teh scum powers of prior game

where scum had one shot doc and even nigth watcher.

If waka is town then scum would need somethign to break the broken combo of watcher/doc.

As i cant see scum having just one shot that could either be used to rb or protect. If town has watcher and doc.

[bob3141]

So dave and tweet are town in my book.

I doubt scum proffii would go down a rout of speculating on wake beinf scum watcher if wake is town. As i cant see scum not having something left to counter the doc.

As wake slot is most likely self resolving as if they could block or anotehr action along those lines. They would go after the watcher first

[bob3141]

normaly its town that pushs back against town players claiming there roles. with scum holding onto their coattails. Rather than being the one to start it all

[bob3141]

You're trying to wagon bob why?

I still don't like his weird push on Dave and end of day defence of Misty yesterday in 696 and posts surrounding it.

And what push is that?

I havent pushed dave once day two. If you dint like my push on dave day one then shouldnt you have voted for me straight away?

[bob3141]

In fact i thought it would be obvous at the moment that im town reading both dave and tweet


Prety much if your reason for your vote on me hectic is due to you thinking im pushign dave when im not. Inst your vote on me just a little flawed

[bob3141]

Bob, could you reiterate what exactly your position on tictac/chemist was Day 1?

That it was blind slot due to the lack of posts. But with reasonable chance of being scum. With the sign of whether chemist was scum or not being if he keeps his vote on alort. Why i was point players to his scum meta in 2119. Didnt want to give away to chemist what i was lookign for. But gave anyone enough hints that it was looking liek first half of his repp in scum game. Where the slots already been run up

[bob3141]

Today i think are best bet in find scum is aaron. See ealier posts in the week

VOTE: Aaron

[bob3141]

VOTE: creature

[bob3141]

Again you out right shade chemist by sayign he voted alort. When he never did.

The slot (tictac and chemist) are the same alignment. It doesn't change when it gets replaced.

Good point.

I'm assuming Bob would know they're the same?

If not it could have just been mistake.

This small discrepancy does little to parse alignment.

I knew the slots were the same. Why i was asking dave about him saying chemists had voted when the prior slot had

[bob3141]

3 hours to deadline.

creature is at l-2

[bob3141]

l-1 one i mean

[bob3141]

Killing outside of tweet, dave and wake. Would imply one either that scum were not afraid of these roles, scum couldnt kill these roles or as gamma has just said one is scum

[bob3141]

if waka, tweet and dave are all town. Then with holdems flip i cant see town hvign any more power.

It might not be a bad idea to do mass claim. As all the town are most likely power roles are either outed or dead.

[bob3141]

Someone said something about scum avoiding the protective because they are scared of the watcher

Baloney

In a game where scum claim their PRs openly on day 1, they cherry pick kills to make you think that.

VOTE: wake88

Migth of been me but i said it coild mean 3 things. One was that but also that one of the claims is fake


I just cant see scum not trying to get rid of dave or wake if they could. If scum have rb ability left. Waka or dave would have died. If they just have utility role then it asks the question how would they deal with dave/waka

[bob3141]

im VT

[bob3141]

There is a logic to say if we believe Dave and mislynch him on purpose, we reduce the collateral damage and if he was lying, we hit scum.

That's a thought, but I prefer my theory of {Wake Hectic} being the scum team

One thing for sure is that slot at night can only work as a vengeful vig

[bob3141]

Is Bob the same person as AskBob?

Nope. This is the only account ive ever played on

[bob3141]

I haven't gotten to that point in the game yet, so I was asking. It seemed implied in that Gamma had reason to indicate that my slot's N2 action hasn't been revealed. On that note, did my slot indicate whom they protected N1?

wake claimed watch day 2. And said he had seen dave and tweet visit hectic

Dave later claimed doc. And start of this day he had bit of rage and claimed babysitter.

[bob3141]

Have you played off-site?

I use to play in said forum some 6-7 years ago. back then it amounted to 10 or so games. Normally lurk feasts that resulted in it dying in that forum.

Your talking 36 day long days due to lack of activity

[bob3141]

I use to play in side forum of a browser game soem 6-7 years ago.

Corrected

[bob3141]

Davesaz: Babysitter
Gamma Emarald: Ascetic Townie

Your turn, Bobman.

Already did

[bob3141]

im VT

[bob3141]

Migth of been me but i said it coild mean 3 things. One was that but also that one of the claims is fake

I just cant see scum not trying to get rid of dave or wake if they could. If scum have rb ability left. Waka or dave would have died. If they just have utility role then it asks the question how would they deal with dave/waka

Dave can protect Wake, while Wake watches Dave. This is probably one of the reasons why neither died. But, as I mentioned before, there may have been a different interpretation of Holden's slot that suggested he was TPR, which would also motivate an NK outside the {Dave-Wake-Morning} scope.

If dave protects wake and wake watches dave.

If scum kill dave. Dave and wake die. And we get no info.

Better dave slot protects some they think is scum. If scum try and kill that slot. He migth take out one of them

They cant kill wake as there is always teh risk to them that dave will gambit and infact protect wake.

[bob3141]

so thast watcher, rolecope and baby sitter. With gated neighbourizer ( gated so it unlikely to get many uses via enabler)

one heavily gated one shot jailkeeper

Scum have to have some sort of role reamining. If lucky or wake were scum it would prob leave a hole in town power.

Tweet just fits in too

[bob3141]

Chemist1422 (7): Gamma Emerald, Cat Scratch Fever, Hectic, profii,t , Aloratom, t

From my pov that prety much means that chemist was double bussed

[bob3141]

VOTE: gamma

Im thinking i was right at the start of day 2 thinking that gamma was demoralized scum. But his active responses to my questions threw me.

[bob3141]

A slight gap in town power. watcher babysitter and rolecop is slightly too little power.

Plus a general town read of tweet.

an enabler greatly weakens the neighbourizer. Each nigth scum has two shots at removing it from the board. Plus one the chance to get it lynched.

[bob3141]

Ive seen it in my last game.

Was assetic town plus tracker/follower , roleblocker, rolestopper and cop. vs scum doc (assetic power) and another scum role 2 shot i think it was

[bob3141]

I do find that night kill odd.

The fact that scum didnt try and kill any pr but instead killed outside.

[bob3141]

Profii are you saying you want to lynch one the pr claims today

[bob3141]

ascetic is not a town pr. Its a negative town role that is intented to weaken the town pr.

The enabler is also not a town pr. As that role disables another pr on its death.

There are only 4 pr either flipped or claimed

Rolecop
Babysitter
Neighborizer
Watcher

[bob3141]

is the watcher is scum then

rolecop
neighborizer
babysitter

leaves a hole in town power

[bob3141]

If dave slot was scum they could of killed wake and claimed that because he was outed he sat on someone he thought was scum.

Thus based on balanced alone it would be highly suspect for some to suspect wake

[bob3141]

Normally a mini normal has 4 pr and I think once in a while there will be 5 pr but normally it's 4. I listed the pr claims we have seen and heard and there are 6. Three pr are dead and three are alive. Figuring out which pr is scum will be tough.

Neighborizer Enabler
Rolecop
Ascetic
Babysitter
Neighborizer
Watcher

The fact you woudl seven suggest 6 town pr leaves me thinking you are trying to force a 1v1v1 between them today.

As at teh most one can be scum. Thus at least one scum must be else where.

And if watch and babysitter are town then scum has to risk killing one at night. Why would anyone want to lynch there while we still have one mislycnh to spare.


VOTE: Adorable

[bob3141]

Normally a mini normal has 4 pr and I think once in a while there will be 5 pr but normally it's 4. I listed the pr claims we have seen and heard and there are 6. Three pr are dead and three are alive. Figuring out which pr is scum will be tough.

Neighborizer Enabler
Rolecop
Ascetic
Babysitter
Neighborizer
Watcher

Normally a mini normal has 4 pr and I think once in a while there will be 5 pr but normally it's 4. I listed the pr claims we have seen and heard and there are 6. Three pr are dead and three are alive. Figuring out which pr is scum will be tough.

Neighborizer Enabler
Rolecop
Ascetic
Babysitter
Neighborizer
Watcher

The fact you woudl seven suggest 6 town pr leaves me thinking you are trying to force a 1v1v1 between them today.

As at teh most one can be scum. Thus at least one scum must be else where.

And if watch and babysitter are town then scum has to risk killing one at night. Why would anyone want to lynch there while we still have one mislycnh to spare.


VOTE: Adorable

I have been leaning town on the pr claims from previous day phases thinking they were all town and I wasn't expecting one of them to be scum when I saw Morning Tweet say this.

Then why say this" Figuring out which pr is scum will be tough."

you say last day you town leaned all teh town pr. Why all of sudden are you saying one scum is in the pr. Not could or might. But you say. WHICH

[bob3141]

bob is not looking good for me and he was one of those players who was off the chemist wagon.

#496 - bob says if tictac is scum his gut is telling him scum is bussing and tictac had 4 votes at the time. Scum are supposed to work as a team getting town lynched and not vote each other on day 1.
#641/646 - bob votes davesaz for gut feeling. I don't like gut feeling reads because it can sometimes be an easy way for scum to give out their reads.
#819 - bob says he was fine with the chemist wagon saying it's a decent chance of flipping scum but instead he votes davesaz and said on day 1 he wants to lynch the scum that don't want to bus.
#1483 - bob says he was thinking Gamma was scum at the start of day 2 but he never mentioned Gamma on day 2 when I read through his posts.

VOTE: bob

And why do you think scum wouldnt bus chemist?
Why do you think me thinking scum would bus chemist is scum indicative?

If you think scum would merge ther votes together why do you think my votes day oen are scum indicative? By your own admission i didnt do what you claim to have thought scum would do. Why do you think as scum i would push against chemist counter wagon and not as you say "work as a team"

What do you think is scum indicative about me being ok with chemist being lynched. And why do you think rather supporting dave push on alort instead push dave with no one. And push against his lynch. Instead pushing him as to why he doesnt want chemist even though he scum reads him? You say scum woudl work as team but why would i solo push a player and push hard against the counter wagon too chemist lynch. Ensuring it happens but getting no credit for it.



Why do you think adora that town wouldnt try and scum hunt during day one? Using all the time availabe to sort those pushing the goign wagons.

Are you sayign you think a townie would just sit on chemist and not do anything? Not try and find out who could be his two partners or if chemist was infact town what that could mean.

adora do you like misrepping. Are you saying i had no interaction with gamma day two and that is why you scum read me?




-------

Your vote feels very omgusy. I call you out on you turning on hair pin when it comes to the town pr. With you even suggesting cake or gamma role would compete with the likes of watcher or babysitter.

[bob3141]

Profii are you saying you want to lynch one the pr claims today

I'm saying I feel like we are being led towards town lynches and the PRs arent mechanically clear in my mind

What makes you think the town pr claims could be scum?


Which of the town pr do you think are impossible to be scum?

Who in the town pr do you think as is scum?

And why do you think we shouldnt force scum to resolve one of those slots for us. Instead of doing there dirty work and being down 2 town pr come the next day.

Rather than one town pr. With potential guilty or even a scum death. former watcher / latter babysitter

Why do you think we should help scum remove these two mines for their night

[bob3141]

profi and adora why do you two think chemist was informed and what do you think he was informed of?

[bob3141]

@Bob

Why are you so confident that scum will target a PR claim? If there's scum in Wake/Lucky, i wouldn't expect scum to hit a PR claim

Additionally, if all PR claims are town, scum still might not target them as a WIFOM tactic

What im sayng is that i infact think scum have not targeted the town pr to be able to WIFOM push them.

Tweet what do you think of town pr balance if either the watcher is scum or lucky is scum with another pr.


Your role if town is just to weak to plug any of those holes.

neighbourizer with an enabler is in effect similar to a 2-3 shot neighbourizer.


enabler is use to nerf town roles.

[bob3141]

and if you were scum tweet that would still leave a small hole in town power.

Normal town power in my experince either 3 town pr with one being a double role. Or 3 town pr with a gated power role.

[bob3141]

Or 3 town pr with an additional gated town power role.


Both beign vs half scum role. (something like 2 shot or even/odd)

[bob3141]

Adora answer my questions.

You have not avoided answering some of them but avoided anwsering every single one.

[bob3141]

Normally a mini normal has 4 pr and I think once in a while there will be 5 pr but normally it's 4. I listed the pr claims we have seen and heard and there are 6. Three pr are dead and three are alive. Figuring out which pr is scum will be tough.

Neighborizer Enabler
Rolecop
Ascetic
Babysitter
Neighborizer
Watcher

The fact you woudl seven suggest 6 town pr leaves me thinking you are trying to force a 1v1v1 between them today.

As at teh most one can be scum. Thus at least one scum must be else where.

And if watch and babysitter are town then scum has to risk killing one at night. Why would anyone want to lynch there while we still have one mislycnh to spare.


VOTE: Adorable

Reading this again I saw this suspicious bob votes me for wanting to lynch in the pr claim when all I said was figuring out which pr is scum will be tough and I originally had them as a town read from previous day phase and it was Gamma I was scum reading. profii was the one who wanted to lynch in the pr claim and Morning Tweet expressed suspicion on the pr claims but instead bob votes me.

You also repeat your instantance that there is scum in the pr claims.

Why are you so sure there is one scum in pr claims. You have not said


Why do you think town doesnt scum read you?

Dont you think your vote is bit omgusy. Infact you coundnt get more omgusy. oh king of omgus. holder of the sceptre om and chalice of gus.

[bob3141]

How long do we go round in the wifom circle of

Babysitter claim could be scum

If scum, babysitter remains alive
If babysitter claim lives, scum want us to lynch

So are you saying you believe the pr claims or not?

[bob3141]

@tweet what i meant was that for lucky to be scum he has to be scum lying about his role. As scum wouldnt have babysitter in this setup and he is confirmed visiting role

[bob3141]

If one of lucky or wake is scum

Then that means 2 full pr and gated pr (1/2) vs 1/4 scum pr and min 1/4 scum pr.

So thats 2.5 v 0.5

Which is under powered

now neighbour is weak role that is also gated by enabler. So could be concidered to be even bigger hole in town power.


Thus lucky and dave must be town

[bob3141]

and gamma role works as negative to town power too.

weakens rolecop, watcher, bayby sitter and neigbourizer. So 4 town roles that it waste in given night. Compare to a one shot scum role and what ever other role they or dont have

[bob3141]

now with a tweet scum.

Thats 3 full town pr vs 1/4 scum role and gated scum pr

thats 3 v 3/4 or 1/2

And even counting teh base role of neighbourizer as weak role thats gated. Its still atleast 1/4

so thats a small hoel for town power


usual balance is 3.5 v 0.5

(stong pr 1.5 )
medium 1
weak 0.5

In case your wondering how im counting pr in my guestimation

[bob3141]

the scum jailkeep was there to give false clear for teh rolecop. Seen it before with 2shot jailkeeper and a tracker/rolecop

scum doc vs tracker/follower

[bob3141]

So rolecop could be concidered to be slighly weaker as scum have the ability to get a believable fake claim

[bob3141]

Also in balance it was prob intented for scum to ahve some ability for the scum jailkeeper to 1v1 the babysitter


jailkeep was informed. we dont know what he was informed off though

[bob3141]

Normally a mini normal has 4 pr and I think once in a while there will be 5 pr but normally it's 4. I listed the pr claims we have seen and heard and there are 6. Three pr are dead and three are alive. Figuring out which pr is scum will be tough.

Neighborizer Enabler
Rolecop
Ascetic
Babysitter
Neighborizer
Watcher

The fact you woudl seven suggest 6 town pr leaves me thinking you are trying to force a 1v1v1 between them today.

As at teh most one can be scum. Thus at least one scum must be else where.

And if watch and babysitter are town then scum has to risk killing one at night. Why would anyone want to lynch there while we still have one mislycnh to spare.


VOTE: Adorable

Reading this again I saw this suspicious bob votes me for wanting to lynch in the pr claim when all I said was figuring out which pr is scum will be tough and I originally had them as a town read from previous day phase and it was Gamma I was scum reading. profii was the one who wanted to lynch in the pr claim and Morning Tweet expressed suspicion on the pr claims but instead bob votes me.

You also repeat your instantance that there is scum in the pr claims.

Why are you so sure there is one scum in pr claims. You have not said


Why do you think town doesnt scum read you?

Dont you think your vote is bit omgusy. Infact you coundnt get more omgusy. oh king of omgus. holder of the sceptre om and chalice of gus.

Adora stop being selective in what you answer

[bob3141]

profi and adora why do you two think chemist was informed and what do you think he was informed of?

@adora

[bob3141]

bob is not looking good for me and he was one of those players who was off the chemist wagon.

#496 - bob says if tictac is scum his gut is telling him scum is bussing and tictac had 4 votes at the time. Scum are supposed to work as a team getting town lynched and not vote each other on day 1.
#641/646 - bob votes davesaz for gut feeling. I don't like gut feeling reads because it can sometimes be an easy way for scum to give out their reads.
#819 - bob says he was fine with the chemist wagon saying it's a decent chance of flipping scum but instead he votes davesaz and said on day 1 he wants to lynch the scum that don't want to bus.
#1483 - bob says he was thinking Gamma was scum at the start of day 2 but he never mentioned Gamma on day 2 when I read through his posts.

VOTE: bob

And why do you think scum wouldnt bus chemist?
Why do you think me thinking scum would bus chemist is scum indicative?

If you think scum would merge their votes together why do you think my votes day oen are scum indicative? By your own admission i didnt do what you claim to have thought scum would do. Why do you think as scum i would push against chemist counter wagon and not as you say "work as a team"

What do you think is scum indicative about me being ok with chemist being lynched. And why do you think rather supporting dave push on alort instead push dave with no one. And push against his lynch. Instead pushing him as to why he doesnt want chemist even though he scum reads him? You say scum woudl work as team but why would i solo push a player and push hard against the counter wagon too chemist lynch. Ensuring it happens but getting no credit for it.



Why do you think adora that town wouldnt try and scum hunt during day one? Using all the time availabe to sort those pushing the goign wagons.

Are you sayign you think a townie would just sit on chemist and not do anything? Not try and find out who could be his two partners or if chemist was infact town what that could mean.

adora do you like misrepping. Are you saying i had no interaction with gamma day two and that is why you scum read me?




-------

Your vote feels very omgusy. I call you out on you turning on hair pin when it comes to the town pr. With you even suggesting cake or gamma role would compete with the likes of watcher or babysitter.

I iso Klick's vote count when tictac's wagon started and they had 4 votes at the time. Why would scum hop on an early wagon on a scum buddy like that when they could have voted elsewhere trying to lynch town on day 1? Gamma was the first voter and I iso him in previous day phase but it turned out his vote was an rvs vote. You thinking scum would early bus looked like scum who wanted to throw shade on the players who voted tictac/chemist. Your vote on davesaz was gut feeling and then you say you wanted to lynch the scum that don't want to bus. So who are the scum that don't want to bus? You said you were okay with Chemist lynch but you voted davesaz instead. Voting a player who is the counter wagon is really suspicious and this makes me think you wanted to avoid the counter wagon to avoid being scum read. Town does sit on a scum wagon and I have seen them do nothing about it and town does need to vote who they suspect. You say why doesn't town find out who could be the two partners or think if Chemist was town. Town doesn't learn anything when a lynch doesn't go through. You said you were thinking Gamma was scum on day 2 and I couldn't find your read on Gamma.

You havent answer my question in that posts. And your reply it self makes no sense. Just comes as you being heavily self couscous as it feels more liek your trying to push scum wasnt on tictac wagon in order to defend your self rather than genuinely scum reading me.

why do you think scum wouldnt bus chemist?
Why do you think me thinking scum would bus chemist is scum indicative? You have not said why you think i am scum. Are you saying town never ever thinks scum bussed. And that scum only ever say a wagon coudl have a busser on it?
In your experience of this site do you think scum rarely bus?


You have not answered why you think a scum me would be ok with the lynch yet not join it?
You have not said why i would do nothing to save chemist.

So your saying you wouldnt want to vote for the counter wagon if you were scum? So why would a scum you not then vote for chemist?



If you think scum would merge their votes together why do you think my votes day one are scum indicative?
First you say scum woudl wourk togather to get a town lynch and then you say i wouldnt push town lynch with scum partners. Which is it would i work as team or avoid chemist counter wagon. and if i avoided teh counter wagon or an attempt to make one. Why woudlnt i then simply buss chemist then? Why would i be on the wrong side of a scum lynch.

Do you think town or more likely to be on scum lynch or off it compared to scum?



Adora you say town does sit on a town wagon. What has that got to do with your scum read of me?
It feels more liek you are trying to push yourself as town by saying oh yes town does what i did. Rather than actualy trying to push a scum read. As you dont say why you think town wouldnt also be off it?

So are you saying that also wagon that dont end in a lynch should be ignored?
Very much looks liek your tryign to project your reasoning in bussing chemist onto me to try and push reachy read. As the action you are sayign mark me as scum are either inconsistent or NAI. With you not beign able to explain why you think it cant be town motivated.

[bob3141]

Also adora why are you only know pushing a scum read on me after i voted for you.

Everything you have mentioned happened all teh way back in day one. So why would not push me as scum. Infact i think you have only mentioned me 2-3 in the first 3 days. And both of those are as hollow as you simpy saying you didnt like that i tried to sort dave. No mention that i pushed him as town day 2. After i quized him on why he woudl vote alort over chemist a player who flipped scum. Well before he claimed doc i was town reading him.

Why do you think alort that scum would push dave as scum day one and then push him as town after his answers. rather than still pushign him as scum?


Why do yoy think your slot under cat didnt try and sort me either?

[bob3141]

If one of lucky or wake is scum

Then that means 2 full pr and gated pr (1/2) vs 1/4 scum pr and min 1/4 scum pr.

So thats 2.5 v 0.5

Which is under powered

now neighbour is weak role that is also gated by enabler. So could be concidered to be even bigger hole in town power.


Thus lucky and dave must be town

Is your current position that both me and Lucky/Dave are Town?

yep.

[bob3141]

This game feels very much like one i was in bit ago. Was a town loss but that was largley due to town pr messing up.

tracker/follower
rolestopper
roleblocker
asthetic town
cop

vs

scum doc plus activated enabler
1 shot strongman

[bob3141]

tracker/follower
rolestopper
roleblocker
ascetic town
cop

vs

scum doc plus activated Ascetic
1 shot strongman

[bob3141]

this game we have

watcher
protective role
ascetic town
rolecop
enabled neighbourizer

va

1 shot jailkeeper informed
?
?

[bob3141]

I think all of [Lucky/Morning/Wake] are town.

That would be reason enough for scu to kill hectic

That reduces his vote to pool of 4 players. me , adora, profi and clidd

one mislynch to go. So his vote would be with in pool of 4 votes with 3 goes.


And it was quite clear he town read clidd. By the fact he expected him to to die tonight instead.

Hectic was largely town read. So its not like they could lynch him.

I know im town

so based on hectic dying

The scum team is adora and profii

Suprise suprise one player who pushed that wake teh watcher was scum day 2-3. And adora who is heavily hinting he wants to lynch in the pr



All town needs to do is avoid lynching in the pr and its prety much a town win for us

oh and dont lynch clidd as what ever you might of though about alor clidd is very towny.

[bob3141]

What do you make of Lucky opting to try and target scum rather than a nightkill target, bob?

that lucky is using the slot like vig

[bob3141]

What do you make of Lucky opting to try and target scum rather than a nightkill target, bob?

that lucky is using the slot like vig

Ah i was referring to a point i have in my memory that you made

It was something like, if the babysitter claim is fake, then he's going to claim to have targeted someone scummy instead of towny and that's why he couldn't save the NK

Not really conclusive evidence. I could see doing that myself as a babysitter. but i do find it interesting that is in fact what he was he ended up doing

if your refering to what i think you are. then you got teh wrong end of the stick as last day i did mention that a town babysitter would have to be used as vengful vig. While also trying to influence scum into not killing wake. By floating the idea that lucky might gambit and protect wake rather than using as vig. While also pushing that he would prob sit on scum.

[bob3141]

bob, have you used the gambler's fallacy in RVS before?

yep.

[bob3141]

bob, have you used the gambler's fallacy in RVS before?

yep.

Other times its just a silly joke rvs vote.

I may or may not have been playing one of those free poker games on steam at the time too

Hard not to follow gamblers fallacy in rvs when your playign poker lol

[bob3141]

Normally a mini normal has 4 pr and I think once in a while there will be 5 pr but normally it's 4. I listed the pr claims we have seen and heard and there are 6. Three pr are dead and three are alive. Figuring out which pr is scum will be tough.

Neighborizer Enabler
Rolecop
Ascetic
Babysitter
Neighborizer
Watcher

The fact you woudl seven suggest 6 town pr leaves me thinking you are trying to force a 1v1v1 between them today.

As at teh most one can be scum. Thus at least one scum must be else where.

And if watch and babysitter are town then scum has to risk killing one at night. Why would anyone want to lynch there while we still have one mislycnh to spare.


VOTE: Adorable

Reading this again I saw this suspicious bob votes me for wanting to lynch in the pr claim when all I said was figuring out which pr is scum will be tough and I originally had them as a town read from previous day phase and it was Gamma I was scum reading. profii was the one who wanted to lynch in the pr claim and Morning Tweet expressed suspicion on the pr claims but instead bob votes me.

You also repeat your instantance that there is scum in the pr claims.

Why are you so sure there is one scum in pr claims. You have not said


Why do you think town doesnt scum read you?

Dont you think your vote is bit omgusy. Infact you coundnt get more omgusy. oh king of omgus. holder of the sceptre om and chalice of gus.

Adora stop being selective in what you answer

On day 3 I said I recall someone saying from a completed game the max town pr in a mini setup is 4 and I asked if anyone can correct me on that or is it 5 and clidd said 4.

Neighborizer Enabler
Rolecop
Ascetic
Babysitter
Neighborizer
Watcher

I don't even know if a Neighborizer Enabler or Ascetic also counts as a pr or not and I put them on the list and when I counted the roles they came up as 6 pr roles and then you come and say Neighborizer Enabler and Ascetic are not pr.

again you refuse to answer teh questiosn in teh posts.

What power do you think neigbourizer or ascetic brings to the town? That it would displace eitehr one of babysitter, neighbourzier, watcher from this setup. As you keep claiming there is 4 pr max. Yet at teh same time you keep shouting that there are 6 claimed pr.

ascetic is a negative role
enabler is negative role

Why do you think they count as town power compared to e.g. a watcher.
They are negative roles that are intended to balance town roles out inorder to reduce town power.

The fact we have a proven ascetic should be seen as a sign its highly likely all those claims are true.


So you claim to have shallow scum read one me but who do you claim to think would be my partner? And why?

Of the 7 players alive who do you town read and why?
Who do you find null and why?

[bob3141]

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=81789

Btw bob, I found a completed scum game of yours and your play does remind me a bit like how you played there. When you were scum you were asking questions, on day 1 you did not participate on any of the main wagons on day 1 just like what you did here and your scum buddy got lynched on day 1 in the completed game. On that completed scum game of yours you also town read a player who was getting wagoned on day 1 and you did the same thing to Aloratom on day 1.

lol serous there is no way your town. Never seen a worse case. if you are town you shoudl be embarrassed. Thats teh scummiest and worest use of meta i have ever seen. You seem desperate.

first look at all my games and you will see i ask questions. I find it interesting you ignor my town meta that shows the same thing. Do you think town never asks questions?

as scum do you answer questions? Or do you just try and deflect rather than answer them

Adora why wont you answer any of them?


So answer why i wouldnt vote chemist as scum? you have read my scum game so know how i can build all town wagons. Or did you just look at the vote counts? So why wouldnt i bus chemist if i wasnt afraid to vote pine and push him all day?

Why do you think me not being on any of the major wagons is scum indictive this game?
Or did you not think furtehr than cherry picking meta

oh look game 2071 not on the day one town lynch.
look 2122 not on day one lynch
oh look scum game i was one day one lynch
oh another scum game i was one day one lynch
2102 wasnt on dayone lynch

Are you really some how suggesting that me not being on dayone lynch is AI?


in 2114 what did i do to pine?

Are you sayign town never town read town during day one?

[bob3141]

Normally a mini normal has 4 pr and I think once in a while there will be 5 pr but normally it's 4. I listed the pr claims we have seen and heard and there are 6. Three pr are dead and three are alive. Figuring out which pr is scum will be tough.

Neighborizer Enabler
Rolecop
Ascetic
Babysitter
Neighborizer
Watcher

The fact you woudl seven suggest 6 town pr leaves me thinking you are trying to force a 1v1v1 between them today.

As at teh most one can be scum. Thus at least one scum must be else where.

And if watch and babysitter are town then scum has to risk killing one at night. Why would anyone want to lynch there while we still have one mislycnh to spare.


VOTE: Adorable

Reading this again I saw this suspicious bob votes me for wanting to lynch in the pr claim when all I said was figuring out which pr is scum will be tough and I originally had them as a town read from previous day phase and it was Gamma I was scum reading. profii was the one who wanted to lynch in the pr claim and Morning Tweet expressed suspicion on the pr claims but instead bob votes me.

You also repeat your instantance that there is scum in the pr claims.

Why are you so sure there is one scum in pr claims. You have not said


Why do you think town doesnt scum read you?

Dont you think your vote is bit omgusy. Infact you coundnt get more omgusy. oh king of omgus. holder of the sceptre om and chalice of gus.

Adora stop being selective in what you answer

On day 3 I said I recall someone saying from a completed game the max town pr in a mini setup is 4 and I asked if anyone can correct me on that or is it 5 and clidd said 4.

Neighborizer Enabler
Rolecop
Ascetic
Babysitter
Neighborizer
Watcher

I don't even know if a Neighborizer Enabler or Ascetic also counts as a pr or not and I put them on the list and when I counted the roles they came up as 6 pr roles and then you come and say Neighborizer Enabler and Ascetic are not pr.

again you refuse to answer teh questiosn in teh posts.

What power do you think neigbourizer or ascetic brings to the town? That it would displace eitehr one of babysitter, neighbourzier, watcher from this setup. As you keep claiming there is 4 pr max. Yet at teh same time you keep shouting that there are 6 claimed pr.

ascetic is a negative role
enabler is negative role

Why do you think they count as town power compared to e.g. a watcher.
They are negative roles that are intended to balance town roles out inorder to reduce town power.

The fact we have a proven ascetic should be seen as a sign its highly likely all those claims are true.


So you claim to have shallow scum read one me but who do you claim to think would be my partner? And why?

Of the 7 players alive who do you town read and why?
Who do you find null and why?

I'm figuring out if there is 1 scum within the pr claim and another within the vt claim or if it's two scum within the vt claim. If Ascetic and Enabler does count as pr then there is a scum in the pr claim and 1 in the vt claim. If there are 2 scum in the vt claim, then why did scum not kill a pr last night? I made my case on you. I think the scum is you with one of the pr claim.

I have been town reading clidd since his posts did look like he was doing some detective work and he was the counter wagon to a scum lynch. I have also been leaning town on wake. Wake called out tictac on day 1 and jumped on the early wagon and I don't think scum would do that to their own scum buddy like that.

why do you think there was no pr nk?

Also what do you think chemist was informed of? I keep askign and you keep ignoring.

You reply to my posts yet you onyl answer less than half teh questiosn. why?

Why do you think scum wouldnt jump on chemist. You seem to be saying that you think no scum was on the chemist wagon? Why do you think no one woudl bus him. A player that didnt nothing all game.

What is your read on proffii.

If you are only trying figuring out if scum is in pr claims. The why this "I think the scum is you with one of the pr claim." doesnt look liek figuring out. Looks like you have all decided on a push. You have managed to be inconsistent in only few sentances. which is it are you figuring if there is scum in pr claim or have you decided that one scum is in there. Since you have said im scum with one teh pr claims. Who do you think it is tweet or lucky?

[bob3141]

@Bob, I don't think it's necessarily wrong to see people say that there's a max of 4 TPR in a mini normal and assume that TPR means non-vanilla. I haven't looked at Adorable's other games yet to see if she's been in a mini normal with more than 4 non-vanilla townies, but it seems like an innocent assumption to make.

@Adorable, I'm still working through my thoughts on all of the slots. I'm going to post everything at once when I am finished.

The player is back rowing. They are trying to push that there is scum in pr claims by pushing there is 6 roles that dont fit together.

Even claiming no pr nk means one scum is in there. rather than the fact that there was watcher that coudl be on tweet or lucky. And lucky coudl of been wake or tweet.

You shoudl look at her case she is pushign on me. One that she only started after i started pushing her. Before then she made no attempt to sort me and all of sudden im pushign her. She scum reads me. When before this she only made 2 mentions of me. And the thing reachy things she is pushign all happened long ago. And she for soem reason didnt feel liek makign these things know.

I some how doubt town would of not piped up ealier. And notice when ever i question her she only replys half teh time. And when she does she cherry picks what she answers and her posts are full of attempts to deflect.



Any way this game is won as long as town stay out of lynchign the pr claims.
Scum simply cant nk. The poe has been reduced to four outside of the pr claims. So they have 50% at random to loss a scum player if they kill you. Let alone being guiltied.

If they kill wake, they still cant nk you. As the former issue remains. So scum are sure tou push you as scum. They lose unless they get you lynched

[bob3141]

Normally a mini normal has 4 pr and I think once in a while there will be 5 pr but normally it's 4. I listed the pr claims we have seen and heard and there are 6. Three pr are dead and three are alive. Figuring out which pr is scum will be tough.

Neighborizer Enabler
Rolecop
Ascetic
Babysitter
Neighborizer
Watcher

The fact you woudl seven suggest 6 town pr leaves me thinking you are trying to force a 1v1v1 between them today.

As at teh most one can be scum. Thus at least one scum must be else where.

And if watch and babysitter are town then scum has to risk killing one at night. Why would anyone want to lynch there while we still have one mislycnh to spare.


VOTE: Adorable

This vote was bad since he said I tried to force a 1vs1vs1 between the 6 pr claim when I first came in the thread saying figuring out which pr is scum will be tough since I leaned town on them last day. bob said at least one scum must be else where and this looks like he is saying there is 1 scum in the pr and 1 in the vt. Is bob doing tmi? And then he later says both scum are in the vt claim.

You are serously grasping at straws here. All game i have been pushing not to lycnh within the claimed pr. Since day 2 i have been push a town read on wake, tweet and dave/lucky. Trying to talk wake out of going after his fellow town pr. Saying no way is there more than one scum in the 3 with it being most likley there is none.

I find it funny your trying to make case of me sayign all teh scum are in vt. Have you not seen my set up spec? Where i say if one is scum it leaves a hole in town power.

You start of sayign that you claim i was pushign oen of the pr as scum and then in next sentance you claiming im pushing all pr as town. Which is it? Am i tryign to force 1v1v1 or claiming all the pr are town>

Yet again teh captain of inconsistency strikes again. Where will she strike again. No scummy push is to inconsistant for her.

[bob3141]

Also, I don't even know what chemist was informed of. You are asking me a question I don't even know. On his flip it says you are aware of redacted. My guess is he is aware of a player since normally redacted means it is hiding a players name.

So what do you think it was?

Based on his role and the roles claimed. What do you think he was informed of?

Its not hard question. After all are you not already claiming to some set up spec. When you push we have 6 pr but you claim there should only be 4

[bob3141]

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=81789

Btw bob, I found a completed scum game of yours and your play does remind me a bit like how you played there. When you were scum you were asking questions, on day 1 you did not participate on any of the main wagons on day 1 just like what you did here and your scum buddy got lynched on day 1 in the completed game. On that completed scum game of yours you also town read a player who was getting wagoned on day 1 and you did the same thing to Aloratom on day 1.

lol serous there is no way your town. Never seen a worse case. if you are town you shoudl be embarrassed. Thats teh scummiest and worest use of meta i have ever seen. You seem desperate.

first look at all my games and you will see i ask questions. I find it interesting you ignor my town meta that shows the same thing. Do you think town never asks questions?

as scum do you answer questions? Or do you just try and deflect rather than answer them

Adora why wont you answer any of them?


So answer why i wouldnt vote chemist as scum? you have read my scum game so know how i can build all town wagons. Or did you just look at the vote counts? So why wouldnt i bus chemist if i wasnt afraid to vote pine and push him all day?

Why do you think me not being on any of the major wagons is scum indictive this game?
Or did you not think furtehr than cherry picking meta

oh look game 2071 not on the day one town lynch.
look 2122 not on day one lynch
oh look scum game i was one day one lynch
oh another scum game i was one day one lynch
2102 wasnt on dayone lynch

Are you really some how suggesting that me not being on dayone lynch is AI?


in 2114 what did i do to pine?

Are you sayign town never town read town during day one?

I answered your questions on 1603 and you want me to answer them again?

You did not vote chemist because he is your scum buddy and scum are supposed to lynch town and not vote each other.

Why did you not vote chemist if you weren't afraid to vote pine and push him all day? Pine is not a player here. Were you talking about dave? You were the only player who voted dave on day 1 and no one else voted him. Hectic said dave is town and he said he did not like your vote on dave.

You not being on the major wagons depending on what alignment. Not wanting to be on a scum wagon as the last 2 or 3 voters players will start to think scum bussed. Scum who don't join on a scum wagon also don't want to bus. Not wanting to be on a town wagon that is the counter wagon to scum wagon is really suspicious and scum will also want to be careful on not wanting to join a town wagon that is the counter wagon to a scum wagon. I noticed you left your rvs vote on Hectic for a long time on day 1 and then you switch your vote to dave which looked like it was getting close to the end of day 1.

You need to change your tone because you sound rude.

Not even close to answering. You answered one question and thought you could get away with it. After ignoring countless otehr questions and those all of teh day. The answers you gave were given to you soem time before you even tried that scummy deflection


You still havent been able to think who you claim to think is my scum buddy. At most you have said oen the pr claims but you have not said who and why. you have 6 players to pick from. And you cant narrow down one person down in 3.

You have not said why being not on chemist is scum indicative. You have explained why scum me wouldnt be on chemist. All you can say oh he wasnt on chemist but if we look at the numbers 3 scum in 13. So for an all town lynch 3 town will always be off and if scum double bus 5. So again why do think there is no chance of scum bussing chemist? Why do you think chemists wagon was all town?

How do you reconcile the fact that you claim day one scum would of worked as team and stopped chemist lynch, yet at teh same time sayign taht scum would never join chemist counter wagon?
Why do you think scum woudl never bus chemist if they woudl never push a counter wagon?

Why do you think adora that town wouldnt try and scum hunt during day one? Why do you think town would try and sort players day one?

Are you saying i had no interaction with gamma day two and that is why you scum read me?


above all the questiosn you refused to answer in that posts you quoted.


---

now on to your posts here

Why would i not vote chemist? You claim scum would try and lynch town but at teh same time you are saying a scum me wouldnt try and lynch adora over chemist. which is it.
Why do you think a scum player would put effort into save tictac/chemist slot over just bussing him.

Have you got permit for that loaded question? You have not answered why you think i wouldnt bus a lurking slot as i quite clearly did in that game you cherry picked and misused the meta from. You claim i wasnt on day one lynch. ignoring teh fact im off dayone lynch all alignments 75% of the time. Why do you think a scum me wouldnt have bussed chemist.

if i dont like being in the last 2-3 voters as scum then why would i bus sheep as the 5th vote on day 2 in menals game. Do you simply like cherrys?

Sop why do you think again no one bussed chemists? Every posts you keep pushing no one bussed chemist. Not that no one double bussed but that no one bussed. Thus if you are scum which is certain to be the case your partner bussed with you. And you were against it. So again what do you think of proffi.

And what makes you think keepign my vote on hectic from rvs is alignment indicative?
Why did you at no point question dave slot. Surely if you realy did find chemist scum would you find it odd that dave was pushing clidds slot over chemist. If your town didnt you think you woudl want to sort dave so that you learn his alignment from chemist flip. Do you not think scum hunting is townie thign to do?





If you cant stand teh heat get out of the kitchen and to be quite frank ive avoid being harsh about just how nonsensical i find your posts. BUt you use of meta just took the cake.

[bob3141]

I doubt voting Gamma while he's v/la will be very productive

I'm down to try this

VOTE: tictac

Would do Holden as well. He seemed to have dropped off the radar after a lot of early shitposting

see in the same post he votes for tictac he is trying to get out of it.

Even then he saying im up for holdem.

[bob3141]

Chemist how caught up are you? Do you have any reads

I think cats last post is quite telling. You see he isnt trying to push chemist but trying to give him leg up.

If his read was geuine he would been pushing him hard. He is trying to give chemist an out.

[bob3141]

Also note how cat never once scum hunted. He did a bit of information not anlysis and a simple question of asking whats your reads.

On all no follow up.

[bob3141]

then you have adora tryign to put an awful meta case. saying i wasnt on day one lycnh of scum buddy. A buddy who was active. That was followed by me not beign on single town mislynch with me driving them through with out me. A game where the only lynch i was on was a scum lynch.

If his meta anlysis was real he woudl of said oh he was off the chemist lynch but chemist wasnt active. While in that game he clearly bussed his inactive scum buddy. And after not being on teh day oen scum lynch he didnt follow town on to town mislynchs. Unlike how he has been on mislynches this game.

Shw woudl have concluded that teh games are not comparable. As teh meta in that game is clearly different. Guy dont match his scum meta. does town really conclude that it means the player is scum. Its as bad as when a player pushs a player for doign towny things and claiming it means they are scum.

Talk about a player trying to make reachy cases. To make teh case she has her arms must be real long. Maybe with 2 metre rule glued to end to manage how reachy she has been.
Even look she hasnt been able to come up with one justification for scum reda and refuses to go deep into any slot.

[bob3141]

Too any wanting the dave /lucky slot.

Can you explain the missing town power if one of either dave, tweet or wake are scum.

[bob3141]

it's probable that either A.) bob is scum with lucky or B.) adorable is scum with profii.

what do you think of the possibility both scum is in the VTs, clidd? If so, i think that makes bob town

So it's either pr + vt or it's bob + profii. I find it interesting bob and profii are not interacting with each other and bob votes me instead of profii.

What is your read o proffi. You ahve been refusing to give one at all. All of this day.

Do you scum read him, do you town read him. And why

[bob3141]

I'm being setup for a mislynch. That Hectic kill makes no sense since that would just put 3 vt claims setup as lynch meaning 2 scums basically outed themselves by killing a vt claim. If I was scum I would have killed a pr and not kill a vt claim.

WINOF much?

You couldnt kill dave bacause of wake. Or you were afraid to take the guilty.

You cant kill tweet as that confirms all the pr claims.

You cant kill wake as agin if you kill him it confirms the other 2.

In other words your only hope was to get a pr lynched.

You have avoid dealing with teh fact that mechanically tweet, luck and dave are town.

for any of them to be scum town would need an extra pr.


You couldnt lynch hectic as he is roundly town read. And his vote would work agains you.

His poe was adora, profii and bob.

[bob3141]

to all

we have

lucky babysitter
wake watcher
tweet neighz.
rolecop
assetic
neighz enabler

vs

known

one shot informed jailkeeper

[bob3141]

one jailkeeper is informed. Thus there is somethign scum needed to know.

two

town has 4 night visits over 4 pr

[bob3141]

normal balance is

3.5 town pr v 0.5 pr

so thats 3 pr plus one gated vs one gated scum pr

one shot can be counted as 0.25

as a full pr wil likely get at most 4 shots off. If that. As a game at most normaly has 5 nights.

[bob3141]

so if the neigbourizer is scum.

That leaves 3 pr

rolecop
watcher
babysitter.

vs

neigbourizer and one shot jail keep.

For that to be balanced town would need more power.

[bob3141]

As ascetic works against town more than scum.

Town has 4 roles that can fail in a given night.

scum normaly has no more than one gated pr role or a few heavily gated pr.

a townie
at random n1 has 1/11 chance of ability failing

n2 - 1/9

n3 - 1/7

on average 1-1.5 night actions for town will fail.
So assetic weakens town more than scum

[bob3141]

added to the fact an assetic is not strong claim to make

Prety much acts as if one town pr was slightly gated in the game

so gamma for balance could be counted as -1/4 town pr

[bob3141]

cake again was for town a negative role.

neighbourizer without enabler (slightly different odds dependign if scum or town is lynched)

day 1 1/13 of being lycnhed - 1/9 being night killed
day 2 1/11 and 1/7-1/8

at worse something like 40-45% chance of neigbourizer not living to day 3. based on random odds.

neighbouizer with enabler

2/13 and 2/9 day one
2/11 and 2/-2/8 day two.

odds are somethign like 80% town would eith lose its neigbourizer or its pr would be disabled

So enabler reduces number of times that the neighbourizer can increase the neighbourhood. Thus acts in the end as if neighbourizer had some sort of xshot gating

[bob3141]

so enabler either -1/4 or -1/2 to a weak role.


so 4pr and something like -1/2 pr from enabler and assetic

[bob3141]

Eh, bullshit.

None of us, including me, are mechanically cleared.

Very rarely does mechanics 100% clear anyone.

The way I understand it, Wake and I are mech town.

That makes the lynch pool {MT, Clidd, Profii, Bob, Adorable}. MT I think is town based on meta. Nobody seems to think you are scum. If I'm right on MT, and everyone else is right on you, then mafia is in {Profii, Bob, Adorable} and with 1 mislynch remaining we cannot lose.

I don't see that at all.

Neither of us are confirmed and the more you argue for that point the more I want to break your neck.

Wake, why would you be hesitant to be treated as clear ? From the Town!Wake mentality, the more credibility and confidence you get in your role the better your chances of winning, because you are aware that you're TPR. I only see this questioning occurring if you have an intense scumread on Luciano, or if you are remembering some past negative experience similar to the current situation, which provoked the rejection of arguments involving conftown by mechanical ways.

Hesitation about being treated as clear?

Because mechanically I'm not, and as Town truth is far more important than having some false reassurance that players think you're clear due to game mechanics. My PR doesn't clear me (only instances like IC, etc); only Scum would jump at the chance of using mechanics to assume being clear.

the jailkeeper in this game is acting similar to strongman.

The difference being that it can be used either on babysitter or watcher.

Its one shot and informed. The one shot would tell any player that it has very specific use. the informed only scum woudl know. But the designers through there must be somethign scum needed to be informed of.
rolecop, watcher and neighbourizer. Never would we see informed.

Thus scum cant waste it.
if watcher and babysitter are outed they can act. We got lucky that the scum we lynched day one was the jailkeeper. It hemmed them in

[bob3141]

bob is unwilling to listen to anything i say. He let's his own setup spec confirm bias him into thinking i must be scum. He gives me several repetitive questions, I do my best to try and answer them (they're a mess), but it's never good enough for him and some of his posts have been really hurting my feelings calling me names.

How dare you say ive been calling you names :-p ive only ever called you adora. I might have said you play is bad but well it is. Far to bad to be town.


You simply dont answer them. You say you do but you dont. I keep reapeatig the ones you simply refuse to touch. Why dont you simply answer each question mark in different posts. Then if you want to prove to me you have answered. As stands all you have been doing is answering one question and ingnoring the rest. And some you have dones this 4 times


Also you say ou think im scum while havign a vote on me. But here you are tlakign to me as though you know i am town. You say confirmation bias which is something that can only happen to town. You here in this post are defecto saying i am town.

Which is it i am confrmation biased towards you which means you are defecto saying i must be town or am i scum?

[bob3141]

yep. as i see it its profii adora team.

[bob3141]

VOTE: Midway

I always find scum tend to keep the reads of there slot when reppign in. While town have tendancy to change

[bob3141]

I'm actually more confident in bob being scum. He seemed really opportunistic in his vote on me
VOTE: bob

What do you think makes it opportunistic?

7 players alive.

What do you think opportunistic about me voting for one of teh playesr i dont town read?

Dont you think it woudl be normal for a townie to vote for either of their two scum reads?


Why did you not vote adora who has also said they would vote you?

[bob3141]

Midway how is your own vote on lucky not opportunistic. You have yet to say why you scum read lucky. Why did you scum read lucky enough to vote?

what is you read on all the players alive

[bob3141]

It shoudl be clear to all that

clidd/alort is day one town read
dave/lucky a day 2 town read
wake day 2 town read
tweet day one town read

plus i beleive mech means tweets, luckys and wake slots are all town.



What do you find oppoertunistic about me having 4 town reads?

Who do you think if your genuine is my partner and why?

[bob3141]

ive posted enough on mech side of things. If you want to see read back.

Basicly it amounts that if any of the pr are scum then there is hole in town power.

As all 3 are confirmed visiting roles. So if one is scum then that means scum have another pr.

So 3 and half town power roles would be need to balance out the 2 scum power roles. (thats assuming its simply half role split) e.g. 2 shot or even/odd gating.

3 positive pr simply wouldnt be enough.

rolecop, watcher, gated neigbourizer - too weak
rolecop, babysitter, gated neigbourizer too weak.
rolecop, babysitter and watcher slightly too weak

[bob3141]

another recent game to comapre balance with


town roles

rolecop/neighbourizer
watcher/voyer
tracker/follower

vs

scum joat (strongman, rolestoper and roleblocker)
scum back up

here you have 3 town pr but all of them strong each with medium pr and weak pr combined

while scum only had one rolestopper and one roleblocker shot. With back up role if first died before they were used

scum power 0.5


town power 4.5 vs 0.5

town has more power as its in 3 roles and not 4. scum has back up use so there half role is stronger

the town rolecop is actualy a cop but one that gets inno one one scum.

[bob3141]

So if we only had 3 pr

rolecop, watcher neighbourizer.

Those 3 roles would actual need to be stronger


so scum can only be in the vt claims


As for one pr to be scum not only does it weak town but also makes scum stronger. makign teh game scum sided and normals always tend to err towards townsided

[bob3141]

So midway what is you read on lucky that overcomes the missing town power enough for you to think he is scum.

wake simpyl thinks dave /lucky is scum based on the fact 3 roles visited hectic.

Although 2 town and one scum v three town roles visiting.

Are just as likely as each other

[bob3141]

Also mid why do you think come day two your slot would go to much effort to a try and push wake as scum watcher and b. push that alort could still be scum with chemist

[bob3141]

what you dont like how im already town reading the pr slots before and mech analysis?

[bob3141]

Midway how is your own vote on lucky not opportunistic. You have yet to say why you scum read lucky. Why did you scum read lucky enough to vote?

what is you read on all the players alive

Apparently tweet and clidd are locktowns for an unknown reason I'll choose to believe
like clidd said before LL vs Wake and bob vs adorable are both not tvt arguments(and they don't read like svs either)
I SR LL and you more than Wake and adorable

And why do you scum read more than adora.

A player that has never answered half my questions.

[bob3141]

Ok, I agree with the part that the bob/ador exchanges don't really feel like scum theatre(it was one of the only parts I reread). Yeah, I would be fine with voting LL or bob. I see myself as a town sheep rn

So what makes you think it me that is scum rather than adora.

What do you think of adora through out the game?

[bob3141]

idk
tbh, I am just sheeping the locktowns(clidd and tweet)
if they vote adorable, I will probably too
I just thought that her frustation in her argument with you felt too genuine to be scum

What made you feel it was genuine?


So you only want to vote adora if you forced. Only if you cant get them to vote for some one else.


If you think adora is town why would you ever say you would vote for her?

[bob3141]

I read the "argument" and it felt to me that she sincerely felt that you were attacking her. I don't think you actually were, but it is reasonable that she thought so. I don't really think scum would try to use the emotions card because that is sorta cheap.
Yeah basically
Because she is not "mechanically cleared"

Why do you think scum wouldnt use the emotion card?

Why do you think it wasnt sensitive scum?

[bob3141]

mid if lucky flipped town what do you think that would mean for the players you dont see as lock town?

[bob3141]

As it looks like you willing to vote for whom ever you can get. With 7 alive thats 4 playesr you dont lock town.

[bob3141]

that includes lucky so after his lynch. If it is revealed you voted for him and his flip was green.

That leaves 3 players outside your lock town. Who do you think the 2 scum woudl be and why

[bob3141]

As it looks like you willing to vote for whom ever you can get. With 7 alive thats 4 playesr you dont lock town.

look I'll vote you/lucky and I'll probably vote adorable
I prefer lynching lucky>>you>ador

Didnt you just say me and ador cant be svs.

So after my lynch. although it would end in a town loss. Who do you think would be adora partner and why?

As its odd you would place adora after me. As i only said if lucky is mislynched. Not if i was. So why would teh 3rd lynch in teh order be a peson you think cant be scum with me

[bob3141]

first of all, I highly doubt LL is town at this point
but I guess then scum would either be you/wake or wake/ador

What makes you entertain the fact that wake could be scum.

What makes you think he could my or adora partner?

If you think i am scum even if lucky is scum. Then why isnt wake your 3rd lynch

[bob3141]

why do you think a scum wake would out all the pr as scum. Rather then using his info to kill them in the night. And town be no the wiser


if lucky is town and i cant in your view be scum with adora.


doesnt that simply mean its a midbear/adora scum team

[bob3141]

If i am town bear what do you think the scum team would be then?

As in if im lynched today. Revealing without a shadow of doubt that im town.


how would that effect you luck read?

[bob3141]

uh yea. I doubt you vs ador is svs.
We have 1 more mislynch iirc, so even if u are town, we would not lose. Not sure who the scumpartner would be
Don't get what you are asking in ur last paragraph srry

pedit: why are u so sure lucky is town?! I trust wake today

i thought you just said a scum lucky means a a scum bob.

So if lucky is lynched and is revealed town. That reduces mislynches to zero

Meaning that my lynch ends the game.

[bob3141]

well we are hopefully lynching lucky not you
I would sheep the locktowns and trust their decision if we somehow lynched you and you flipped town

if you think lucky is sure scum and that makes me sure scum. Then why would you care which one went first.


As you have been pushing that im in the most possibile teams. Wouldnt my lynch in you pov be the best?

[bob3141]

wth is your logic no offense
if lucky flips town, then we aren't going to lynch you(most likely)

But you just said you think it could be wake/bob team.


Thus you are thinking about a bob lynch

[bob3141]

uhh there's nothing wrong with sheeping as long as your reasoning is fine
It seems like you are the main scum candidate and even if you aren't, your flip would be informative

pedit: huh whats your solve

what information do you think you would gain from luckys flip.

Compared to other flips.

[bob3141]

well the reason is jailkeeper and not a roleblocker is holdem.

its more the informed nature. meaning there is something scum needed to be informed of.

for instance in another game. Scum was informed that the day one IC was bulletproof.

[bob3141]

a roleblocker just means town has active roles rather than roles like mason.

[bob3141]

if we count nieghbourizer as full role on par with watcher and doc.

thats 4 active roles in this game. enough reason for scum to get roleblocker role.

if babysitter was swapped with tracker there is still reason for a roleblocker.

[bob3141]

as i said roleblock role is just given to scum to help them stop town night actions.

things like 1 shot and informed are the important part.

ive seen and played as scum jailkeeper before. but both times they were two shots.

[bob3141]

I can't talk to you without insulting you, so I will refrain.

Thanks, but I am VT so whatever argument you have against me is wrong. I don't think I can convince you though, but your "mechanics" argument is wrong.
Perhaps we are both town and scum is bob+ador
If u flip green, we will still win though

You earlier said it cant be ador/bob

What in these last posts has changed your mind.

And infact in that post you where talking to me as though i was town.

[bob3141]

I can't talk to you without insulting you, so I will refrain.

Thanks, but I am VT so whatever argument you have against me is wrong. I don't think I can convince you though, but your "mechanics" argument is wrong.
Perhaps we are both town and scum is bob+ador
If u flip green, we will still win though

You earlier said it cant be ador/bob

What in these last posts has changed your mind.

And infact in that post you where talking to me as though i was town.

If lucky flips green, then it is either you/ador or wake+one of you.
Idk what you mean by me talking to you as if you were town.

So why do you think i would be scum with a town lucky.

So far all of today you have not yet given a single reason why anyone would be scum. Its all be deflections from yourself and adora

[bob3141]

And i thught you said it coulnt be wake. You keep flip flopping between it cant be wake to wake could be part of team.


Explain teh scum motivation for wake outing 3 pr. If they are all town. Why woudl scum wake simply not kill them in the night. Tell me why after a lucky town flip you would even scum read wake


and why are you preparing for the next day as if you already know lucky is town if you think lucky is scum?

[bob3141]

Idk because you are still scummy. Lucky being town doesn’t clear you at all. Yeah, I admit that I haven’t really tried to actively scumhunt. I’m just more focused with looking towny, so I don’t get voted. I said that adora is possibly scum too

But what is it that you think is scummy about my play. So far you have not been able to give a single example. You have not been able to justify your own scum reads.

On its own why do you think dave/luckly is scum?

And why do you think i am scum?


So far all you have come up with is that lucky is info lynch. Yet you know claim it gives no info. As from your later posts you are sayign scum could be in any combination of the players outside of clidd and tweet.


All you have done is say oh they could be scum team but not why.

[bob3141]

Idk man. I haven’t really read much of the game. But if lucky flips town, we should still consider him no?
I prepare for all possibilities:P

So you are saying you are not prepared to get invested in this game. That you are not interested in finding who scum is. And that you just want any lynch that inst you


How is that not scum motivated as doesnt scum want atleast one player to live. As after all they need to endgame to win