Mini Normal 2132 [Game Over]

[Wake1]

Hello everyone.

Let the

bloodshed

scumhunting begin.

VOTE: tictac

[Wake1]

So, of course it's a reach, but do we have any hard info on meta-tells on any of these people?

[Wake1]

So, of course it's a reach, but do we have any hard info on meta-tells on any of these people?

Side note: I'm honoured to play with you, sir. I heard about your 50 player large game, and I'm a huge fan.

Aw, shucks.

[Wake1]

So, of course it's a reach, but do we have any hard info on meta-tells on any of these people?

Well, yeah, but why do you want to discuss those tells before the people potentially make them?

Because I'm impatient, I want to know, and I want people to get real nervous.

[Wake1]

I do have some ISOs on some of the players here that were in my 50p game mwa ha ha...

[Wake1]

*Going to bed very soon, and will be at work for 12 hours tonight (I work nights). Will post as able.

[Wake1]

Thank you.

[Wake1]

So, of course it's a reach, but do we have any hard info on meta-tells on any of these people?

this is a wacky thing to say. do you usually commence the metadiving within the first couple of dozen posts?

How early is too early to start scumhunting and figuring out the game in your opinion, Morning Tweet?

[Wake1]

Wake, have you rolled scum in the last year?

At the moment, I don't really remember. I spent initially started the process of getting that 50p game started way back in early December, so I haven't played since November.

[Wake1]

if waka hasnt rolled scum this year

gambler's fallacy here i come

VOTE: waka

Seems like a reach, but OK.

[Wake1]

So, of course it's a reach, but do we have any hard info on meta-tells on any of these people?

Some of us

HATE

day 1.

This is true.

[Wake1]

So, of course it's a reach, but do we have any hard info on meta-tells on any of these people?

this is a wacky thing to say. do you usually commence the metadiving within the first couple of dozen posts?

I think it's a reference back to the 50p that Wake modded where metadiving was a very big thing.

I've seen/read though like 6 Wake games, but they were all town. I may or may not have gained some knowledge while impersonating him in the 50 player large for a bit. Wake, have you rolled scum in the last year?

if waka hasnt rolled scum this year

gambler's fallacy here i come

VOTE: waka

Waka flocka flame has rolled scum in the last year

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=81560

OK, I remember that one now.

[Wake1]

Waka flocka flame has rolled scum in the last year

Why r u answering for wake?
rude.

I don't see an issue with it provided he's correct.

[Wake1]

So, of course it's a reach, but do we have any hard info on meta-tells on any of these people?

well, u gonna suck if ya scum, since ya think lying is naughty. that's what ya told me last time ya were scum anywhey.
speaking of: are ya scum here? I'm gonna be sad if ya lie.

Eh, lying is Scummy so I don't much like seeing it from Town unless there's a very good reason for it.

I'm 0% Scum this game.

[Wake1]

Weird that Wake went for meta instead of declaring his hatred for day 1. Town points there I think

You probably shouldn't dish out Town points that easily. Just my opinion.

[Wake1]

I didn't realize bob was here. Definite scum.

VOTE: bob

Could you explain that confidence here?

[Wake1]

Waka flocka flame has rolled scum in the last year

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=81560

Oh God lol. I remember reading a bit of that when it was happening and I thought Wake's entrance felt a lot townier than usual.

What I can say is that when I'm Scum I can be very convincing Town (the only reason we crumbled in that game was due to the Town-sided setup).

Ironically, as Town, I often get Scumread or voted for being pointedly opinionated and argumentative.

[Wake1]

At first when he proposed doing meta dives out of the blue, i starting having a slight crackpot theory that scum!Wake wanted to gain town cred in a way that sticks out really well

Someone (you i think actually) asked him for an explanation of why he would want to out metas before people have a chance to even display them (which was a good point).

His answer of wanting to make people nervous and change their playstyles from the outted meta rather than simply observe whether their meta was the same seemed like a pretty good idea to me actually. And then dave answered my question of why he was so eager on the proposition. Overall I like him doing it as town better

Seems awfully reasonable of you.

...

.

.

[Wake1]

I do have some ISOs on some of the players here that were in my 50p game mwa ha ha...

Wake coming out strong this game, hrm.

Am I?

[Wake1]

At first when he proposed doing meta dives out of the blue, i starting having a slight crackpot theory that scum!Wake wanted to gain town cred in a way that sticks out really well

Someone (you i think actually) asked him for an explanation of why he would want to out metas before people have a chance to even display them (which was a good point).

His answer of wanting to make people nervous and change their playstyles from the outted meta rather than simply observe whether their meta was the same seemed like a pretty good idea to me actually. And then dave answered my question of why he was so eager on the proposition. Overall I like him doing it as town better

I agree. I also liked his eagerness to use this 50 player large game as a resource.

Wake, as scum you play a little more reserved and your anger looks a lot more faked. So be nervous if you're scum.

I think, on reflection, I'm more reserved and my anger looks faked as Scum because I already know who's who.

As Town lost in fog, I can afford to be aggressive.

[Wake1]

I went ahead and compared Wake's entrance in this game to his scumgame that I modded and I think I agree with a townlean there. I think he's tonally different compared to that game and here he has a better interest in solving than he did there, specifically by bringing up the meta thing.

Well that's, well, that's interesting...

[Wake1]

I didn't realize bob was here. Definite scum.

VOTE: bob

Could you explain that confidence here?

Let me double check.

@bob -- are you scum this game?

Nah, let's try this again.

How is he definite Scum?

[Wake1]

I don't recall getting an answer from Aloratom.

VOTE: Aloratom

[Wake1]

Davesaz, would you like to join me on an Aloratom wagon?

[Wake1]

I don't recall getting an answer from Aloratom.

VOTE: Aloratom

What makes you think Alo not answering the question is a scum move?

I don't know whether it makes Hectic town or scum that he ignored my comment about him not inspiring confidence.

Evading a question, to me, is not Townish whatsoever.

It's Scummy behavior.

[Wake1]

I don't recall getting an answer from Aloratom.

VOTE: Aloratom

@Wake -- Bob told me to stuff it. This decreases my confidence level significantly.

Is it that you missed this or is it that you didn't like what you saw?

That's not an answer. That's an evasion.

Again, WHY are you so confident about his alignment?

Answer me.

[Wake1]

How is he definite Scum?

[Wake1]

I can never tell with Wake. I've had my fair share of scumreading him because of his aggressive/overconfident style he adopts the longer the game goes on. You question whether he actually believes the stuff he's saying at times, a lot due to the way he says it. Though, in this case actually, I think the misunderstanding on his part is completely NAI.

Misunderstanding on

whose

part?

[Wake1]

How is he definite Scum?

I don't think Aloratom actually believes that he's 'definitely scum'

Then he should

clarify

...

...or not say that.

[Wake1]

I can never tell with Wake. I've had my fair share of scumreading him because of his aggressive/overconfident style he adopts the longer the game goes on. You question whether he actually believes the stuff he's saying at times, a lot due to the way he says it. Though, in this case actually, I think the misunderstanding on his part is completely NAI.

I think scum!Wake is a little more reserved and cautious with his approach. Aggressive Wake = town Wake.

Basically this.

It's easy to be aggressive when you don't have a clue who's who. When you know exactly who is who it's extremely difficult for me to feign ignorance or poke and prod at things (because I already have the answers).

[Wake1]

Wake vs Alo may be TvS

Based on your questions back towards Wake you think wake is the scum in this exchange. I'm I correct in this? Or have you change from when you raised the counterpoint about playstyles and dodging questions?

"Wake vs All may be TvS" implies that he thinks I'm Town and Alo's Scum. However, if that's incorrect I'd like Cakez to clarify that.

[Wake1]

Wake can you link a couple of your recent scumgames?

Aaronfrost mentioned one in here earlier.

Before that I do not remember.

[Wake1]

Wake can you link a couple of your recent scumgames?

also are you still feeling scum on Alo?

All I want to know from Aloratom is why he said that other guy was definite Scum.

Him evading my question only makes me suspect him more.

If he explains why, I'm more likely to relent.

[Wake1]

The content is almost always less important than the reason for having a question. This is also a clue on how to read me.

What do you think was Wake's intent behind his question in 180?

I see we have an alt-slip.

[Wake1]

I, for one, would like to hear more from tictac.

I would hate to think he's holding back.

[Wake1]

Wake can you link a couple of your recent scumgames?

also are you still feeling scum on Alo?

All I want to know from Aloratom is why he said that other guy was definite Scum.

Him evading my question only makes me suspect him more.

If he explains why, I'm more likely to relent.

But what if his explanation is scummy?

That question is rhetorical & facetious in equal measure.

Wait, what?

Yeah, if Aloratom flips Scum you're next.

[Wake1]

tictac has been prodded.

FoS on tictac.

[Wake1]

More than a few times I've seen a lurker/flake turn out to be Scum.

Could be intimidation or lack of interest or hopelessness. The last game I was Scum I clammed up because it felt hopeless. In my 37:1:6:6 game multiple Mafia weren't posting. I used to think Scum wouldn't shut down, but I know better now.

VOTE: tictac

[Wake1]

Waka since your now voting tictac. How does your belief that tictac is scum thats shut down affect your ealier belief to vote Alort?

I'm pressuring tictac because he's posted the least, and too-oftenly-to-be-comfortable they tend to flip Scum.

My thoughts on Aloratom haven't changed. He never explained why you were definite Scum when asked, and because the rest of the Town didn't seem to care about him avoiding the question I kind of lost interest. I still want an answer from him, and I can be very patient.

[Wake1]

I have time to pressure tictac later.

I'd be OK with an Aloratom lynch today.

VOTE: Aloratom

[Wake1]

"Guys, GUYS, I don't know why A-Tom is being voted."

[Wake1]

In a nutshell what's the reasoning for it?

I'm content with either an Aloratom or tictac vote for Day 1 currently.

[Wake1]

Does he usually do this as Scum?

[Wake1]

"Guys, GUYS, I don't know why A-Tom is being voted."

Why the scare quotes?

They're not scare quotes I'm mocking you.

[Wake1]

I'm bored of this.

Either a lynch on Aloratom or tictac would be fine with me for now.

This is why I don't like Day 1. I don't have any concrete flips to work with.

[Wake1]

Very, very interesting...

[Wake1]

I see SirCakez has been shanked.

What is the likelihood we're looking at a 3-man team?

How common is that in a 13-player game?

I'm going to look through Chemist's post history to see if I can suss out some Scum.

[Wake1]

*It's actually extremely important that we decide if this is a 3-man Scumteam or not.

[Wake1]

Also, I called it on tictac early.

However, I totally missed that he had been replaced by Chemist.

[Wake1]

IF my memory serves, we no longer do 3rd party Scum in 13-player Normals. I could be wrong though. I thought they did away with Multiball in Mini Normals.

[Wake1]

Profii, what did you do last Night?

[Wake1]

I thought you were leaning it not being SvS? what are the chances both partners got ran up for the entirety of the day?

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Bussing is right though. i'm inclined to think it's elsewhere than Alo

You think there are two mafia?

This.

[Wake1]

Morning Tweet, what'd you do last Night?

[Wake1]

Profii, what did you do last Night?

Morning Tweet, what'd you do last Night?

Why are you asking this, Wake? Do you have reason to know about them in particular?

Why are you avoiding my question with a question?

[Wake1]

Actually, I thought that was Morning Tweet responding, not Hectic.

[Wake1]

I don't think I like you asking me why I'm asking MT.

If you're Town don't do that.

[Wake1]

Davesav, what did you do last Night?

[Wake1]

OK cool, have it your way. Not.

I'm a full Town Watcher.

I watched Hectic Night 1.

Both Morning Tweet and Davesaz targeted him.

Both evaded me when called on it.

[Wake1]

OK cool, have it your way. Not.

I'm a full Town Watcher.

I watched Hectic Night 1.

Both Morning Tweet and Davesaz targeted him.

Both evaded me when called on it.

Oh neat.

Why'd you ask about profii then?

It was a distractor, and it looks like it distracted.

[Wake1]

I'm of the mindset that one of those two targeting Hectic is Scum, while someone else (not among Tweet, Dave, and Hectic) is the Scum that killed Cakez.

In a 10:3 game exactly how often does one Scum target another one of their own team members? I don't think it's likely. I do think that would be more likely in a larger multiball game.

ALSO, if one of Morning Tweet or Davesaz flips Scum,

that means the other one is Town

. Unless, of course, anyone here thinks this game is 9:4, which I don't believe whatsoever.

[Wake1]

I'm of the mindset that one of those two targeting Hectic is Scum, while someone else (not among Tweet, Dave, and Hectic) is the Scum that killed Cakez.

Ok

Do you think one of them is scum based off of play or is this just pure speculation? Like do you have any specific reason to believe this?

Do not pretend to be dense with me, Aaron.

How likely do you think it is that 3 Town PRs all targeted Hectic at the same time? Assuming Hectic is Town.

I

know

you understand what I'm saying.

[Wake1]

I take it we've already analyzed any interactions among other players with Chemist/tictac Day 1?

Also, if there's a protective PR please do me a favor tonight.

[Wake1]

*sigh*

I'm here.

Still haven't lynched anyone yet? Boring.

[Wake1]

Not seeing a VC anywhere.

I don't think we should have been so quick to dismiss the Watcher results.

IF Hectic is Town I HIGHLY DOUBT there's two other Town PRs besides me that targeted Hectic.

Chances are one of Morning Tweet or davesaz is Scum.

Why are people ignoring this?

[Wake1]

That's idiotic, especially if there's a high chance of Scum being in there.

You should know better, profii.

[Wake1]

Gamma could you do a light reread and give a thought on maybe like just one player?

Morning:

Why did you stay on profii for the entirety of yesterday, despite you being the only person not voting for one of the two wagons (Aloratom and tictac). profii clearly wasn't going to happen, so why didn't you pick a side?

Regardless of tictac-Chem's alignment, i felt the case was good enough where scum would jump on if Alo is scum (or its TvT), as a counterwagon, or if tictac is scum, as a bus. additionally, when profii joined it, it gave me a sense of validation on that read.

as for alo, i didnt agree with Dave/Wakes original reason for voting and never got anything from Alo that could possibly override tictac-chem's behaviour coupled with the tictac meta

i probably should've made it more clear, but id have voted to finish off either wagon if it was required, i wasnt expecting profii to be lynched instead or anything like that

Alright, your explanation for your thought process does sound somewhat reasonable. I just find it interesting how you're focusing so much on scum bussing while being off the wagon yourself.

If you are scum, I think it's almost certainly with someone off wagon in {davesaz, AaronFrost, Waka Waka, bobman}

Morning + AaronFFrost
Morning + Waka Waka
Morning + davesaz
Morning + bobman

AFF is still town based on meta. Waka Waka is quite clearly a town watcher with the way he claimed. So:

Morning + davesaz
Morning + bobman

You and Dave both wouldn't target me as scum PRs. So:

Morning + bobman

bobman interestingly enough, you seem to have labelled a bobman as a "it's weird but it's a bobman" read in 755 and 622. You also called a bobman confusing and possibly defending his buddy in 939 and 942, but you've not asked one bobman any question or attempted to solve the bobman in any way today.

I honestly think that if Morning is scum here, bobman is kinda very likely to be her partner.

This is for post game more than anything at the moment though.

Interesting that my name popped up.

I would have you explain that, Hectic.

[Wake1]

I'm not sure about Gamma being Scum.

Aloratom still lives, and Morning Tweet and Davesaz are viable suspects.

My gut is kind of bothering me about Bob, but I can't tell atm.

[Wake1]

Hate to break it to you, but you're favourite to get lynched here, Gamma. I'd start placing bets but I have faith in your ability to prove us wrong.

still, gonna put a small bet on now just in case

Why exactly is he the favorite, though?

[Wake1]

That's idiotic, especially if there's a high chance of Scum being in there.

You should know better, profii.

I should have demonstrated my petulance with more emojis

I am not against a bit of consideration to your point at all

What exactly are you saying?

Speak plainly.

[Wake1]

Perhaps HoldenGolden is Scum. He seems intent on trying to twist my posts and my intention now.

I think I'm gonna park my vote there for now.

VOTE: GoldenHolden

[Wake1]

Currently I'm under the assumption that there are two Scum left, so it's up to me to separate the Scum from the mistaken... again.

The more any of you tell me not to speculation from my lucky watch action the more I am going to push poke and prod at it. Scum has every reason to fight me from uncovering the truth, and if you're Town you had better get out of my way. I wanted data, and I got it. We have viable, confirmed data and I will break apart anyone who tries to shut me down from working with it. I'm trying to use deductive reasoning to help the walls close in on Scum. I've got a loose thread and I'm intent on pulling at it.

I watched Hectic Night 1. Morning Tweet and davesaz targeted him with actions. Neither of them performed a kill Night 1.

Chemist was Scum, lynched Day 1.
Hectic: Could be either Town or Scum.
Morning Tweet & davesaz: Could be either Town or Scum.

- All 3 could be Town.
- All 3 cannot be Scum.
- 2 out of 3 cannot be Scum.
- Only one of those 3 could be Scum, because iirc Multitasking is not Normal.
- Only one of Hectic/dave/MT could be Scum because one Scum had to perform a Night Kill, and another (if possible) could have used a power role. It's unlikely (imho) for all three Scum to be PRs, so if there's a Vanilla Goon that one would have performed the NK.

- Either Hectic is Town and was targeted by 3 separate Town PRs...
- ...or Hectic is Town and 1 of those 3 PRs that targeted him are Scum.

- Another possibility is that Hectic is Scum: Hectic could have carried out the kill.
- It's unlikely, if Hectic were Town, that his Scum-mate would also target him.
- If Hectic is Scum, it's more likely he was targeted by 3 separate Town PRs. Scum protective roles are not that common in Singleball, correct? Usually they're more common in Multiball.

- If Hectic flips Town we must interrogate one of dave or MT. And if one of those two also die and flip Town, then the other must be destroyed, because then that remaining player is most likely Scum.

Bob I feel is rather inscrutable. I can't tell which alignment he is currently.

I object to voting lynching Gamma Day 2. I was the first to vote tictac. Gamma joined me after that. Gamma stayed on the tictac/Chemist wagon all the way to the end. Unless Gamma is Scum and was doing a hard-bus of his teammate, I don't think Gamma is Scum. WHY are people voting him?

Out of curiosity, I see tictac/chemist was voting for aloratom all of Day 1, with davesaz eventually joining, and then AaronFrost, and then much later I. I'm beginning to suspect that aloratom may be Town, and that davesaz (and potentially AaronFrost) is Scum.

I think, perhaps, davesaz would be a better option currently.

VOTE: davesaz

[Wake1]

I play as I want to play as Town, NOT how people expect or want me to play as Town.

Do not even try to push me to play a certain way because I can guarantee you I'll do the exact opposite.

I NEVER spit out reads just because someone wants me to. I do what I want, when I want. If I want to go in-depth I will if I feel like it. If I'm content to just watch and post little, Ill do just that. I want the game to be fun for me: not feel like a chore.

The process of elimination using deductive reasoning based solely on my Night 1 action is to me worth more than just some base read on someone. I'm humble enough to admit my reads aren't always accurate, and I trust deductive reasoning based on gathered information far more.

[Wake1]

Gamma, Aloratom, if neither of you want to be lynched Day 2 I would ask that you please join me in lynching davesaz if you aren't already.

[Wake1]

Morning Tweet, I'm gonna give you a chance to fix what you just posted.

For starters, in 100 I voted for tictac/Chemist first and then Gamma stayed on there for a long period of time.

Gamma joined me after I voted for tictac, and stayed on him all of Day 1 even after I changed my vote.

From VC 1.04 to 1.09 Gamma stayed on tictac/Chemist until his lynch.

Read. Klick's. ISO.

If you're going to argue with me, I advise you to make sure you have your information correct.

[Wake1]

Morning Tweet, I'm gonna give you a chance to fix what you just posted.

For starters, in 100 I voted for tictac/Chemist first and then Gamma stayed on there for a long period of time.

Gamma joined me after I voted for tictac, and stayed on him all of Day 1 even after I changed my vote.

From VC 1.04 to 1.09 Gamma stayed on tictac/Chemist until his lynch.

Read. Klick's. ISO.

If you're going to argue with me, I advise you to make sure you have your information correct.

I literally scrubbed through the entire game to find every instance of people voting tictac beyond RVS. All you're doing is reading Klick's ISO.

Hello everyone.

Let the

bloodshed

scumhunting begin.

VOTE: tictac

Hi don't touch me

VOTE: tictac
I'm pretty sure I know where your avatar comes from and I approve

^^^ These are RVS votes ^^^

More than a few times I've seen a lurker/flake turn out to be Scum.

Could be intimidation or lack of interest or hopelessness. The last game I was Scum I clammed up because it felt hopeless. In my 37:1:6:6 game multiple Mafia weren't posting. I used to think Scum wouldn't shut down, but I know better now.

VOTE: tictac

VOTE: Chemist

This

is L-1.

^^^These are your actual votes on the tictac wagon.^^^

Gamma did not death tunnel tictac as a hard bus, if that's what you're getting at. Again, his first vote on the slot is here, as an agreement to Hectic's casing. It has nothing to do with your RVS vote

Are you confused, or are you up to mischief as Scum?

Either way I'm more than happy to break you apart.

1) I never said Gamma death-tunneled tictac/Chemist.

2) I never said Gamma hard-bussed him. Only that it could be a possibility.

3) I never said his vote had anything to do with mine.

4) What I did say is that Gamma was on tictac/chemist vote-wise for the majority of the day, from VC 1.04 all the way to hammer.

What are you talking about?

Why are you taking my words out of context?

I can remember and recite everything I just said, so why can't

you

?

Keep my words in context, neither adding nor subtracting. Only Scum would try to change the context of what exactly I said.

I want answers from you.

Now

.

[Wake1]

I object to voting lynching Gamma Day 2. I was the first to vote tictac. Gamma joined me after that. Gamma stayed on the tictac/Chemist wagon all the way to the end. Unless Gamma is Scum and was doing a hard-bus of his teammate, I don't think Gamma is Scum. WHY are people voting him?

What about this are you not understanding, MT?

1) I was the first to vote tictac.

2) Gamma joined on the wagon after me.

3) He stayed on the wagon all the way until the end of Day 1.

4) It's possible this was a hard-bus, but as I said before it's not likely.

5) Therefore, based on this, I personally (for now) doubt he is Scum.

Explain to me

exactly

what you don't understand about this.

[Wake1]

I never said the only way Gamma could be Scum is if he was hard-bussing tictac. I said it's a possibility that he could be doing that as Scum, but it's unlikely, but still possible. Why? Because in a past game Scum hard-bussed Day 1 and I completely fell for it. That's WHY I'm more cautious.

IT DID come after my vote. LOOK AT the VCs. I don't have time to comb through every post, but I do have time to look at the patterns among each and every VC post. That's my metric, and that's good enough for me.

Regardless of what Gamma thought is irrelevant to me. He remained on that slot until the very end.

[Wake1]

Explain to me

exactly

what you don't understand about this.

I see now that you're viewing Gamma's vote here:

Hi don't touch me

VOTE: tictac
I'm pretty sure I know where your avatar comes from and I approve

As his actual contribution to the tictac wagon.

The wagon was initially started by Cat and Sircakes, though. This happened after Gamma's RVS on tictac. He didn't join, nor did he make any comments on it.

The wagon was then given greater fire by Hectic's case. Profii joined..

AND THEN gamma joined, here:

VOTE: Chemist

This

is L-1.

Do you not read this?

Votecount 1.03

Hectic (2): AaronFrost, bob3141
HoldenGolden (2): SirCakez, Morning Tweet

tictac (2): Wake88, Gamma Emerald

bob3141 (2): Aloratom, Hectic
Morning Tweet (2): HoldenGolden, Cat Scratch Fever
Aloratom (1): tictac
AaronFrost (1): profii
Cat Scratch Fever (0):
profii (0):
Wake88 (0):
Gamma Emerald (0):
davesaz (0):
SirCakez (0):

Not Voting: davesaz

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

The day will end in (expired on 2020-04-20 11:30:00).

[Wake1]

Yeah I just ISO'd Gamma and searched "vote."

He was on tictac the whole time, and just fake-voted tictac while already having his vote on him.

[Wake1]

I'm saying Gamma is likely Town, because otherwise he's Scum hard-bussing tictac, which is unlikely yet still possible. That's what I've been saying.

I only voted tictac once, iirc. I never said I stayed on his wagon. I'm saying Gamma did from VC 1.04 (not since 1.04, which was my mistake) until hammer.

Point is, regardless of anything else, Gamma was on tictac slot from VC 1.03 all the way until hammer.

So he's probably Town, or to a lesser extent Scum that hard-bussed that slot.

[Wake1]

I understand what you're saying now. I disagree with the notion Gamma is likely town for it. I treat Gamma's second vote on tictac as his actual contribution to the wagon. He thought that his "L-1" vote on Chem was his true vote. It wasn't a reaction test, he legitimately thought that was his vote

Evidence to support this: He admits it himself. He never talks about tictac in his ISO, at all. as far as I can see. It's literally a jump from voting tictac in RVS, to talking about unrelated stuff, to voting Chem in an attempt to put her at L-1.

This reads like he hastily voted chem, as if he just felt like he needed to. So hasty and without any thought that he didn't even realize he was already voting her prior. Which kinda reveals he wasn't trying to evaluate tictac, at all, since he didn't even remember he was voting him

Additionally, i have townreads on some of the different members of the wagon, and i feel strongly there is a busser. It all comes together

I think Gamma is more likely to be Town than hard-bussing Scum. Doesn't mean he's Town for sure, but if it's a numbers game he's more likely Town for it.

Maybe he completely forgot he was voting that slot, but then that would be more of a player error, but I find it hard to believe Gamma would do that.

Then again, I had forgotten that Chemist had replaced tictac.

Maybe Gamma is Scum. I don't know. I'm trying to make accurate judgments based on the evidence and player patterns I currently have.

So if Gamma is Scum then he was bussing Chemist. If I were Scum I would want avoid bussing at all costs unless it was necessary.

We do know tictac slot was on Aloratom from VC 1.02 all the way to lynch. Davesaz was on Aloratom from VC 1.04 to lynch.

How would you evaluate that? Scum was on Aloratom for much of Day 1.

[Wake1]

Davesaz claimed Doctor?

Morning Tweet, you're up.

[Wake1]

If Dave is a Town Doctor then he should be protecting me Night 2. If he does not, and I die, then I would say he's either Scum or deliberately didn't protect a Town PR.

I would like for Morning Tweet to claim since we already know he performed an action.

[Wake1]

I'm not convinced on Gamma being Scum.

Would need to see the reasoning for it boiled down to specifics.

[Wake1]

Seems like a desperate act of self-defense to me, Dave.

[Wake1]

I'm Dave is probably Scum despite his claim because he was also on the Aloratom wagon all the way to lynch. Knowing that tictac/Chemist was Scum, would he really have tried to hard-bus Scum-Aloratom all of Day 1? Would that sacrifice be worth it?

Aaronfrost and Dave were on that wagon, too.

Aaronfrost flaking out makes me think he could be Scum as well, just like with tictac. Perhaps he felt the walls closing in. I'm feeling rather confident that davesaz is the one today.

[Wake1]

I, for one, would like to hear more from tictac.

I would hate to think he's holding back.

I'd like to hear more from you about players other than Aloratom and tictac. The early TR is slipping a lot.

This also makes me think you're not Town this game.

[Wake1]

Tictac is all fine and dandy-- but what do you guys think about profii?

hia Holden

I don't like this post either.

[Wake1]

Bob, could you reiterate what exactly your position on tictac/chemist was Day 1?

[Wake1]

do you still think my claim is necessary wake?

I absolutely do.

[Wake1]

Okay, I have another important question, Misty. Is that the moon in the background behind you, or your hat? Also, if it is a hat; can I have it if we lynch you? I know it's kind of awkward considering the circumstances, but I'd really appreciate it.

It's a hat

And you can have it if you give it back after the game

Thanks!!! I won't let you down.

Hm.

...not sure if this is code.

Iirc Scum don't have Daytalk.

It's probably nothing, but did stand out slightly on re-read.

[Wake1]

VOTE: Chemist1422 I don't have much time nowadays but hopefully this will flip scum and clear me!

how does chemist flipping scum clear you?

This... is a good question.

Makes me Townread Aaron's slot.

[Wake1]

VOTE: Dave


Time for more serous vote than mine on hectic.


Hectic if your not scum, so far every game together has been town town

You are going to need to put much more behind this rather than the vote alone. May I here why is dave scum formally?

I dont like alort lynch. and tic/chem have had little input.

Its not strong read but gut feeling on dave

Bob, how do you currently read Dave?

[Wake1]

Again you out right shade chemist by sayign he voted alort. When he never did.

The slot (tictac and chemist) are the same alignment. It doesn't change when it gets replaced.

Good point.

I'm assuming Bob would know they're the same?

If not it could have just been mistake.

This small discrepancy does little to parse alignment.

[Wake1]

I said earlier I didn't have a read on Alora because I didn't know what was playstyle I think

At this point I'll keep it for self-pres though

VOTE: Chemist

*sigh*

(How to read this?)

[Wake1]

If we decide not to lynch Dave, then he must protect me tonight.

Then, what? I watch Dave?

[Wake1]

I doubt the typically cool-headed davesaz would resort to getting heated.

[Wake1]

You're both town.

How would you know?

I don't know if he's Town.

[Wake1]

A mafia team who highly value daytalk would sacrifice another role to keep an encryptor alive btw. It's not the best role to try to keep IMO but many people would value it.

So what exactly are you saying?

[Wake1]

I'm saying that scum could/might have bussed.
Why is it that so many people are having trouble understanding

really

basic stuff?

But you mentioned a Mafia team that highly calues Daytalk, but this game doesn't have Daytalk. Do you think a Mafia Encryptor exists, and if so why hard-bus a teammate to keep it alive?

[Wake1]

Aloratom has requested replacement.

Ugh.

That's annoying.

[Wake1]

We

could

break Creature's neck instead.

[Wake1]

VOTE: Creature

[Wake1]

So we need one more vote on Creature.

I'm not budging, so good luck all.

[Wake1]

I'd rather lynch either MT or davesaz but no one's listening.

Perhaps Day 3.

[Wake1]

I targeted davesaz Night 2.

HoldenGolden targeted davesaz.

[Wake1]

Hey Dave, what you think of Wake's statement about you, Morning and Hectic after the recent NK ? or has nothing changed ?

Since the gamma portion of my solve doesn't pan out I guess I'll give the rest.

I wasn't killed, which means Wake is town. Scum killing protective is high priority unless that kill will result in a guilty. Scum believed the watcher would get a guilty. Wake wasn't killed, which means scum thought I would protect him. Kill priority would be investigative over protective, unless protected. I assert that this implies I have to be town protective, though I will be generous and try not to sling insults if people don't get it.

I'm not as positive about Hectic as I was d1, would need to re-read.
I really need to know what MT's role is. Another TPR means the game is very stacked. Scum would need to have roles to counter.

Wait.

Hold on.

Just because you weren't killed doesn't mean I'm Town. You could very well be Scum. HoldenGolden was killed Night 2 so unless there's a Vig (which I doubt) then Scum targeted Holden, not you. You could very well be one of the two remaining Scum. I don't know your alignment.

You may not even be a protective, which is why I was pushing for either of you two to be sorted Day 2.

Nothing you have done (or anything that even HAS beeen done) clears you or makes you confirmed either way.

[Wake1]

I think a mass-claim is in order.

[Wake1]

I believe you're definitely right Wake

I'd neighbourize hectic, without a doubt. He's the coolest!

Can confirm Hectic is, in fact, the coolest

So you're claiming Neighbor, or Neighborizer?

[Wake1]

VOTE: Wake
I don’t think Watcher + Doctor + Role Cop passes as balanced and out of the remaining roles I’m more inclined to doubt the second investigative role.

Is it unheard of for there to be multiple investigatives? By their play alone I am inclined to vote dave. I don't think this is a strong argument

Why does scum!Wake out both me and dave rather than just kill us? it's a lot of unnecessary, extra WIFOM risk.

It outweighs the double investigative thing for me.

Btw regarding this I think Wake suspected a protective and wanted to get it lynched if possible. And like think about how powerful that trio of roles is if they can confirm each other. That’s not balanced at all in my eyes. So I think my point actually outweighs yours.

So, when you were pulling this out of your ass, how badly did it hurt?

[Wake1]

I recall someone saying from a completed game the max town pr in a mini setup is 4. If anyone here can correct me on that if that is correct or is it 5?

Yes, 4 TPRs and 6 VTs.

This is a 13-player fame, though. Not 10.

[Wake1]

*game.

[Wake1]

Which players:

1) Refused to join the tictac/Chemist wagon.

2) Joined the Creature wagon.

I was wrong about Creature. I can forgive myself for that.

I think davesaz is Scum. To a lesser degree my gut bothers me on Gamma, Hectic, and Morning Tweet.

VOTE: Davesaz

[Wake1]

Davesaz (full claim)

Flat refuse to full claim. Town protective role.

Need time formulating a convincing claim?

Come on, out with it.

[Wake1]

I'm a baby sitter you fucking moron. Now when scum kill me they get 2 townies.

I'm gonna "protect" Hectic just to make it easier for scum.
Bastards.

2/10 fake rage.

Need to put more sincere emotion into it to be convincing.

This ain't your strongsuit, Dave.

[Wake1]

Plus it's not convincing when you "flat-out refuse" and then two posts later you're full-claiming and calling people names.

[Wake1]

I mean, as Wake I could seriously push your buttons in general, but since I'm Town I'm trying not to flip your switchboard.

No one's confirmed so forgive me for asking questions and being difficult.

[Wake1]

I believe I know how to recognize when the player reaches the limit and ends up "exploding" and asks for substitution. It happened to me once.

Seems kind of early in response to mere skepticism.

[Wake1]

It looks like he'll get replaced regardless. Can't take it back.

That's a shame. I'll have to torment a replacement for answers.

[Wake1]

Someone said something about scum avoiding the protective because they are scared of the watcher

Baloney

In a game where scum claim their PRs openly on day 1, they cherry pick kills to make you think that.

VOTE: wake88

OK but you're wrong though.

[Wake1]

I'd be open to a Gamma lynch.

[Wake1]

I'm here.

*Sigh*

[Wake1]

VOTE: Gamma

[Wake1]

Lucky, what are you doing?

Are you going to vote Gamma or keep your vote on me?

[Wake1]

OK, so I watched Dave/Lucky slot N3 and no one visited.

[Wake1]

I haven't been that active lately. School & work.

Has Lucky posted anything yet? No one attempted to kill our supposed doctor N3. My gut's telling me that's a lie. What does everyone else make of this?

[Wake1]

If one of lucky or wake is scum

Then that means 2 full pr and gated pr (1/2) vs 1/4 scum pr and min 1/4 scum pr.

So thats 2.5 v 0.5

Which is under powered

now neighbour is weak role that is also gated by enabler. So could be concidered to be even bigger hole in town power.


Thus lucky and dave must be town

Is your current position that both me and Lucky/Dave are Town?

[Wake1]

I'd hate to think it's you Bob, and Lucky/Dave.

If L/D slot flips Scum I'll be scrutinizing you more closely.

[Wake1]

Perhaps this is bad Town play, but I put a premium on Final VCs each Day.

I'm certain at least ONE Scum is among those who took part in the Day 2 and 3 lynches.

I'm not Scum, and of the remaining that leaves Bob, profii, and L/D.

At least one of them is Scum. The other Scum likely stayed off the wagon, perhaps not voting whatsoever.

Why was Hectic killed? Why would Scum kill him? What would be their angle?

Also, the sheer amount of replacements is bullshit, and makes trying to pick through this game a bit of a bitch.

A lot of Town were on the Scum lynch D1.

Morning Tweet and L/D are still alive.

Profii helped lynch Scum D1.

I think I'm gonna have to go with my gut on this one.

VOTE: Lucky

[Wake1]

I think lynching Lucky/Dave slot is the best idea currently.

Who else was off the Chemist wagon and on the two following mislynches?

[Wake1]

Eh, bullshit.

None of us, including me, are mechanically cleared.

Very rarely does mechanics 100% clear anyone.

[Wake1]

You know, I wanted setup speculation earlier, but now I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed by it.

Who here 100% currently refuses to lynch Lucky/dave slot today?

[Wake1]

The way I understand it, Wake and I are mech town.

That makes the lynch pool {MT, Clidd, Profii, Bob, Adorable}. MT I think is town based on meta. Nobody seems to think you are scum. If I'm right on MT, and everyone else is right on you, then mafia is in {Profii, Bob, Adorable} and with 1 mislynch remaining we cannot lose.

I don't see that at all.

Neither of us are confirmed and the more you argue for that point the more I want to break your neck.

[Wake1]

Eh, bullshit.

None of us, including me, are mechanically cleared.

Very rarely does mechanics 100% clear anyone.

The way I understand it, Wake and I are mech town.

That makes the lynch pool {MT, Clidd, Profii, Bob, Adorable}. MT I think is town based on meta. Nobody seems to think you are scum. If I'm right on MT, and everyone else is right on you, then mafia is in {Profii, Bob, Adorable} and with 1 mislynch remaining we cannot lose.

I don't see that at all.

Neither of us are confirmed and the more you argue for that point the more I want to break your neck.

Wake, why would you be hesitant to be treated as clear ? From the Town!Wake mentality, the more credibility and confidence you get in your role the better your chances of winning, because you are aware that you're TPR. I only see this questioning occurring if you have an intense scumread on Luciano, or if you are remembering some past negative experience similar to the current situation, which provoked the rejection of arguments involving conftown by mechanical ways.

Hesitation about being treated as clear?

Because mechanically I'm not, and as Town truth is far more important than having some false reassurance that players think you're clear due to game mechanics. My PR doesn't clear me (only instances like IC, etc); only Scum would jump at the chance of using mechanics to assume being clear.

[Wake1]

Want to vote Lucky with me, Bear?

[Wake1]

I don't think his outburst exonerates him.

In my experience playing this game I have seen Scum replace out in a fit.

I don't know.

If that slot was Scum and did that to help their team that'd be really shitty, and maybe a new rule should be made to prevent that. I feel like replacing out in some games can be done tactically to manipulate the game: I don't like it one bit.

[Wake1]

*prod-dodge*

[Wake1]

Oh.

OK.

"Klick looks bad."

Does that suffice?

[Wake1]

Neither Lucky nor I are "mechanically" cleared. I hate how people try to clear themselves using their PR claims.

Why is that slot still alive? Why the fuck aren't people voting there?

Why all this resistance?

We're running out of time and I absolutely refuse to move my vote.

[Wake1]

Congrats to Scum for winning.

I couldn't, for the life of me, detect you.

[Wake1]

The problem I had with Bob is that I couldn't feel confident in what he was saying. There was a period when he did a mechanical spam that I honestly found incomprehensible.

Thats fair -- I was definitely freaking out internally because I knew he was on the right track. in hindsight though, it was easier for me to get his points because I had some insider knowledge

Hope you all had fun! This was my first time modding in at least five years, and although I fell behind at times I feel like it went alright. Good game!

the modding was great, no problems. thank you Klick!

I second this.

The modding was good.