Mini Normal 2139: No Flavor Allowed - Game Over

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Aight, I'm here now. My thoughts on the game so far:

Clidd to me reads pretty obvious town. I didn't really jive with his early accusation of Lucky since it seemed pretty far-fetched, but it did spark a lot of conversation and he didn't let it drag on longer than he needed to, plus he seems thoroughly engaged with the game and has pretty solid reads so far. Umlaut similarly seems like he's actively game-solving with his questioning and commentary here and there, plus I thought his flip-flopping on Hoctac was pretty natural, although he's not as strong as a town-read. Klick I haven't agreed with a lot of his assessments, particularly his stance on Lucky and early SRing of Umlaut, but I do find it easy to see where he's coming from when he lays out his reasoning and reads a lot like an open book. I wasn't a huge fan of Pers early game but I think his catch-up looked towny albeit excessive, and I've agreed with most of farside's takes so far. valoneast is coming off more like newb!town than newb!scum to me so far, and I think his "spitballing" read pretty genuine, although it's not a strong TR atm. Hoctac's tone is pretty hard to read and I'm not quite sure when he's serious and when he's joking, I'm leaning towards him being lynchbaity town for the moment but I'm not putting much stock in that either.

I had early town pings from Zulfy through his interactions through Lucky/clidd thought looking back it wasn't as meaningful as I'd thought and I'd need more from him before I make up my mind. I thought this post from Cakez was kind of towny but otherwise I don't have a strong impression of him yet. Lucky's aggression to me did feel pretty towny at first and looked more like it came from town who was pissed at being misrepresented, but the first sentence of this post does ping me the wrong way. Most of the towny things I saw from Atarashi was their prodding of Hoctac, although I'm not putting a lot of stock in that rn because he's easy to criticize. Their content is OK but seems pretty fakeable by scum. I'm finding Ragman's content pretty underwhelming, and I'm not a huge fan of him prodding other's for their reads whilst not really giving out any himself. I thought this post felt almost like a repeat of valoneast's post (in terms of "I can't read y'all b/c you keep referring to other games", which I don't think is true anyways), and I'm not getting great vibes off of that either. I'm fine voting him for the moment.

VOTE: Ragman Saul Rima

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Lucky's aggression to me did feel pretty towny at first and looked more like it came from town who was pissed at being misrepresented, but the first sentence of this post does ping me the wrong way.

Just wondering why? That first sentence just seems like he's trying to use their logic and he's exasperated that people can't follow it.

Admitting to copying his past town game down to the exact post is pretty strange. The only reason it doesn't bother me more is because he claimed he'd reveal the town motivation for that later on, so I'm not too concerned about it atm.

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Note²: Ragman, describe your reads on the playerlist.

It's too early for me to townread anyone atm, I don't know anybody's metagames.

Scumread: Klick, Luciano

Why is it too early for you to town read people but not to scum-read them? By your logic, how would you know that say Luciano copying his town game wouldn't be something he usually does as town if you don't know his metagame?

Also, is there more to your Klick SR than him trying to dissuade SirCakez from voting him (ie how are you viewing his other posts)?

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Some thoughts before bed: Lucky's pretty strong town for me since he posted his wall, and that's been solidified through the rest of his posting. His posts and analysis are pretty in-depth and it's not difficult to follow his train of thought, plus I liked how he didn't really hold back in his questioning of clidd, his engagement feels pretty genuine overall. My read of valoneast has also strengthened once some of that newbie-awkwardness started to fade away, I do get the impression he's genuinely scum-hunting and trying his best to contribute / adapt to the game. I was worried Pers's burst of activity / actual scum-hunting would only be a one-time thing, and his pointless pop-in really doesn't help with that. I'm pretty underwhelmed with brassherald's replace-in, there's a lot of fluff in there and what game-relevant content in there isn't very fleshed out, and it also doesn't help that their predecessor wasn't great either. I'm not thrilled with Zulfy's disappearance but I don't think it's AI. I'm pretty confused by the wagon on Klick as his play so far seems pretty town-motivated, and I don't feel great about most of the players on it except SirCakez to some extent. I was hoping Ragman would give some more content upon his pop-in, but I'm pretty underwhelmed.

@Ragman, what are you scum-reading Klick for other than what you mentioned when you first posted?

@Klick I can mostly jive with your reads list but why did clidd drop down in your reads? His posting has been pretty consistent to me so far.

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@Klick I can mostly jive with your reads list but why did clidd drop down in your reads? His posting has been pretty consistent to me so far.

His play has been consistent and strong so far, and earlier on that felt better than what I was getting from most others. I went through my townreads later and sorted which ones I felt good about and which ones felt relatively weak. And like, if I'm wrong about someone I could see it being clidd a lot more easily than most. I'd like to look at clidd's scum game later to see what he's capable of/whether strong early game is typical for him. I see myself getting a better read on him later on.

I thought that was more of a preferred lynch list than a reads list, having clidd on the same tier as Zulfy still feels weird in that context.

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@clidd, yeah, sorry about that, I've been pretty busy lately. I'm about to head to work so I'll be back later tonight if I can't find time to post between breaks.

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This game's been moving a lot faster than I anticipated, and the constant replacements aren't really helping with that. I'll be around for a while now at least.

I've been thinking about the Klick/Quick slot for a while and at this point I'm leaning more town than scum. I find myself having to make less concessions when analyzing their play from a town perspective rather than a scum one. Like I'm not sure why Klick would want to make post 150 as scum anyhow. It wouldn't really help for town-cred since if anything it'll draw even more suspicion (questions like "why ask Atarashi/Hoctac in particular?"). Calling out them in particular seems very deliberate, and it'd be a pretty notable lapse of judgment for him to go the extent of almost pretending to be an Informed Townie himself and forget he wasn't supposed to know about the neighborhood. Otoh I think it's plausible that town!Klick would either want to give a heads up to the neighborhood or leave a crumb that he is informed (though leaving out Zulfy does hamper this theory slightly). Quick's first vote on Hoctac would make sense if he did indeed know there were scum in the neighborhood, as does his later vote on Zulfy (though I don't entirely follow the progression there), and his earlier paranoia about whether or not Klick claimed also coincides with his later reaction when Hoctac essentially forced him to claim. They could just be happy coincidences and things just happened to line up in his favor, but I'm not seeing it. I do have some issues with Quick's ISO, primarily his weird interaction with SirCakez and him ignoring basic questions about his role this past page (and as far as Klick goes, I did read a part of his scum ISO and realized he had a wider scum-range than I realized), but overall I'm not that concerned about him at the moment.

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In terms of Hoctac's case itself, I don't think he really went about it the right way (someone mentioned that he shouldn't have given scum!Quick an out by claiming Informed, which I agree with), but that would make sense considering he's a newbie. I do feel his overeagerness at having caught scum (from his POV) does ring pretty townie, and while I don't necessarily agree with his scum-tells I can definitely see where he's coming from, though I have had to re-read some of the early game thanks to him linking one of Klick's early posts and the shift in tone from his first posts to now is a bit jarring. It almost seems like he's more playful that he was at the start of the game, and I'm not entirely sure how to make of it.

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I think Persival's outburst was over the top but more likely to come from town than scum, though I'm not thrilled with Ame's lack of content atm. At first I thought he wouldn't really claim a PR if he were scum until I remembered he thought he was walking out the door anyhow, but I still feel that "fuck it" frustration is a bit more likely to come from town overall.

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Zulfy did finally post I guess but it's not a whole lot to go off of.

@Zulfy could you explain your SR on Lucky?

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I'm a novice PR so I didn't want to play TOO obvtown and take the N1 kill, and I got nervous when hoctac made that post showing how townie I had been and so I backed off.

Vageuly, but yes.

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Is that actually your role?

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Yes?

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OK...

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@Ragman, what are you scum-reading Klick for other than what you mentioned when you first posted?

Too many townreads, I don't see where the confidence is coming from to give farside, sircakez a strong townread so fast. clidd went from good townread (#211) to mild scum (#355), though I believe he made no scummy posts in between. I went from neutral (#175) to scum (#211) though I didn't post in between. I'm thinking it's scum sheeping farside.

I did not like this reply to my post from Ragman from earlier before he rep'ed out. "Too many townreads" feels pretty echoey from what's already been said ITT, and he's had an SR on Klick since earlier in the game yet only comments on his most recent readlists, which hadn't been posted when I first probed him about his Klick read, so that clearly couldn't have been all there was to it if it were genuine. He didn't really have any unique takes of his own and pretty much followed along with the crowd, and while I could potentially see it coming from newb!town I feel like newb!scum has a lot more incentive to blend in with the crowd and not try to make any big waves. Looker's posts haven't improved my read on his slot, and some of his comments don't even make that much sense (IE asking SirCakez "Are Reundo, Farside22, and SirCakez all guaranteed town?" does not make sense with regards to either the Cakez post he quoted, Cakez reads, or his own reads judging by the comment he made about me at the end of that post).

@Looker what prompted the sudden switch from saying you'd vote either Hoctac or Lucky to voting Quick?

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Basically at this point my strongest town-reads are clidd, Umlaut, and valoneast, probably SirCakez as well. Lucky's absence is a bit worrying but I understand the need to break away from the game sometimes, I still think he's town too. Hoctac and farside are giving me town pings but not enough for me to TR them strongly, Quick I'm still not exactly sure how to read tbh (and looking through Looker's ISO pulled up this post from Quick which comes off kind of awkward), but they're slightly above null. Ame's also leaning town a bit but that convo with them rubbed me the wrong way. I thought this meta read on clidd was kind of towny but otherwise I don't feel great about brass's slot, and I'm finding Zulfy and Looker pretty scummy, I'll stay on Looker for now.

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I wouldn't say Quick has ignored questions about his role. He's been absent since the questions appeared. Also, I still don't see how town!Quick immediately gravitates towards a Hoctac vote over any other member of the hood, especially given that he hadn't read any content yet. I think you have to make far more concessions to say that Quick RNG'd his eventual scumread, and found him scummy every step of the way as town than as mafia.

Those questions were asked before he made that Looker vote, so yeah I would say they were ignored, or at least missed. I could easily see it as just an RVS vote from town!Quick initially (albeit informed since he'd know there were scum in the neighborhood so he'd be more inclined to vote in there), and as Hoctac was especially controversial early on I don't find it implausible that he'd "RNG" into his scum-read. And I'm not sure why scum!Quick would be inclined to be so stubborn about their initial vote that they felt they had to contextualize Hoctac's posts as coming from scum, he could've easily decided to just change his mind or move his vote if scum!him felt it wasn't the best course of action, so I don't find that very convincing.

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[*]@Reundo: I didn't consider it sudden. Sudden, to me, would be going to 16 posts from 6 after someone mentioned my activity. Either way, I'm still reading and there's more than one mafia. Unless you're telling me that Hoctac, LuckyLuciano, and Quick are all town?

That's cute, but still doesn't explain what you were scum-reading Quick for at the time, though now I'm also wondering what prompted you to move off of him and onto brass?

Are there any specific posts I can reference to back up your vague, subjectively worded reads?

What do you mean by "subjectively worded"? Are there any specific reads you'd like me to go into?

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@Umlaut I was thinking it might be a soft too. I'm not sure why you'd point it out tbh but I'll wait for your reasoning. Also in your Lucky recap could you go over what changed between this post and your Quick vote if you weren't planning on doing so already.