Mini Normal 2139: No Flavor Allowed - Game Over

[farside22]

VOTE: persivul
I handsome. I'm stalking you.

[farside22]

scum reads on valoneast for the trying to play newb card, klick following zulfy reads as scum too.
I don't know whether to take hotoc seriously or not.

I'm undecided about clidd

vote: klick

[farside22]

Defensiveness and frustration isn't an alignment-indicative trait.

On their own, no.
Scum definitely hate being caught for the wrong reasons, though.

Town doesn't think a player is scummy for trying to paint them as scum for something they do as town?
Since when?

[farside22]

At the moment, I am concerned about this pool: {Persivul, Hoctac, Umlaut}, I would like the opinion of someone who knows/has played with them.

Played with persivul. Right now just a null read.

Defensiveness and frustration isn't an alignment-indicative trait.

On their own, no.
Scum definitely hate being caught for the wrong reasons, though.

Town doesn't think a player is scummy for trying to paint them as scum for something they do as town?
Since when?

That sort of self-centered mindset comes more from scum than town in my experience.
Is being wrong a scumtell?

People are reactionary regardless of alignment. That isn't self-centered, that is hey why are you scum reading me on something I did before.
I've seen it from both alignments.

[farside22]

Farside, do you see any features that catch your eye in Persival's scum/town game or does he always play to the same standard ?

Most current game is ongoing. Game before that was 2 years ago. I cant say im a fan of his thought process on hotoc and i dont recall how he felt about that in the past.
I do remember it was a peeve of some plays in the past when player fake claim shit.

Umlaut is scummy for trying to again redirect attention back on me for attacking his scum buddy. Decent odds of scum.

clidd is very scummy for saying his concerned pool is 2 main wagons, and ME - which is unacceptable. Likely scum.

You seem really sure about something this early.

VOTE: lucky
Hate his page 2

Clidd is trying way too hard

VOTE: cakez

[farside22]

talk to me farside

How about less vague stuff. Other scum reads? Why multi votes look scummy?

[farside22]

My Persivul read is airtight. He jokingly hand-waived a wagon on him - bad sign.
He latched onto something he could push via policy (me) to look townie - stop sign.
He tried to defuse my read on him later - u turn sign.

rvs wagon and reaction look the same from all types.

Degrees go up to 360. You are currently at 110°.

The game is cracking wide open here. I see several factions forming around me.

On one side are the bandits of Persivul + Umlaut + Klick. They are led by the False King, who hails insults at my good name and honest doctoring profession.

On my other side are the raiders of Lucky + farside + Atarashi. They attack all attackers, defending their captain, Lucky.

Finally we have the rogue agents, clidd, and SirCakez. They seem on the prowl as neutral factions, waiting for their time to strike when the opportunity presents itself.

I am surrounded on All Sides.

I'd vig you in a heartbeat.

I don't know Luciano's metagame, so I'm not convinced by clidd's argument.
I don't have a problem with #36, but #48 seems off.

Luciano, you are copying a comical approach to RVS for a reason that will be revealed later, and will show clear town motivation?
The fact that you were willingly repeating town posts and then covering up by saying you have reasons which will later be revealed looks like scumtell to me.

Maybe I'll change my mind when I see your reasons, but for now I'm voting for you. Do tell me if I misunderstood your posts.

VOTE: LuckyLuciano

'Opportunistic' is a fun buzzword, especially early-game. I appreciate the insight on Lucky, though.
VOTE: Umlaut

Klick, I may have missed your reason to vote Umlaut. Can you explain why?

I'm going to call this scum

I've played a lot of Secret Hitler. I played Mafia once before. I was scum and claimed a weird role but put the conditional or informed modified - can't remember what it was in the wrong place when stating the role, and got scumread for it by everyone and lynched.

I am never playing on that site again.

Love Secret Hitler!!
I miss going out. *sigh*

Farside, do you see any features that catch your eye in Persival's scum/town game or does he always play to the same standard ?

I play differently each game, according to my mood and the playerlist. Farside is a good player, but she's not particularly good at reading me. She's overly paranoid and scum reads me at the drop of a hat.

I'm getting better at trying not to be paranoid.
So beside Hotoc do you have any scum reads thus far?

[farside22]

VOTE: Ragman Saul Rima

I got a few players i'm town reading. But not enough to start a list.

[farside22]

I don't know Luciano's metagame, so I'm not convinced by clidd's argument.
I don't have a problem with #36, but #48 seems off.

Luciano, you are copying a comical approach to RVS for a reason that will be revealed later, and will show clear town motivation?
The fact that you were willingly repeating town posts and then covering up by saying you have reasons which will later be revealed looks like scumtell to me.

Maybe I'll change my mind when I see your reasons, but for now I'm voting for you. Do tell me if I misunderstood your posts.

VOTE: LuckyLuciano

'Opportunistic' is a fun buzzword, especially early-game. I appreciate the insight on Lucky, though.
VOTE: Umlaut

Klick, I may have missed your reason to vote Umlaut. Can you explain why?

This post was what pinged my vote. The long and the short is that the post read wishy washy.
There is no stance on it as a reason to vote Luciano and frankly it reads awkward as hell given the game state.
I usually see that from awkward scum.

[farside22]

I'm going to refrain from feeling a little sick that persivul just followed my vote.
*deep breath*

[farside22]

You're trying to trap me into giving a response you can spin as scummy no matter what I say.

But fine, I will indulge you: I believe I already answered your question in 110. He tried not to look serious about a RVS wagon on him and then suddenly turned serious on me.

I actually think this post is kinda townie. I know some read Hoctac as scummy and they are indeed really awkward.

not crazy about Klick's ISO. three "serious" vote hops already.

Do you think scum are more likely to switch their vote around early than town?

Depends on the player and game state
In the context of this game I read Klick's movement as scummy

13. SirCakez - comes in and out of the conversation a couple of times, never posting anything relevant to the conversation.

I take offense to this

Atarashi bothers me a little bit but I don't know how to describe it.

Can you explain why klicks votes in context read scummy. I thought about 1 I could see that example.

[farside22]

I'm going to refrain from feeling a little sick that persivul just followed my vote.
*deep breath*

You're really fucking full of yourself sometimes.

Oookkk....

Lucky's aggression to me did feel pretty towny at first and looked more like it came from town who was pissed at being misrepresented, but the first sentence of this post does ping me the wrong way.

Just wondering why? That first sentence just seems like he's trying to use their logic and he's exasperated that people can't follow it.

Admitting to copying his past town game down to the exact post is pretty strange. The only reason it doesn't bother me more is because he claimed he'd reveal the town motivation for that later on, so I'm not too concerned about it atm.

Hmm, to me it seems rather neutral. Opening move is the same every time, and keep consistent, as soon as you deviate people will jump.

It can be depending on the player. I used to start all games the same and mimiac things so no one could tell my meta.
Im just waiting on lucky for a better read.

[farside22]

So far scum read on ragman hasn't changed. Light scum read on cakez and hotoac (this is just a bit gut check moments). Null: klick and persivul.

[farside22]

Oh zuofy and lucky or null.
Kind of want to poke at cakez a bit.

@cakez: why no response to klick? Any other scum reads?

[farside22]

I feel like i did when i created a game where everyone had 2 votes that they could use to either vote a player twice or split their votes between 2 scum reads. If i could do that I'd vote for cakez too right now.

[farside22]

I feel like i did when i created a game where everyone had 2 votes that they could use to either vote a player twice or split their votes between 2 scum reads. If i could do that I'd vote for cakez too right now.

Talk to me about this read because I'm not seeing Cakez scum at all. He could certainly be efforting more (hey Cakez, you really need to effort more) but he just seems like low-energy town. His tone is pretty free and his impressions of the game look natural and unforced, and he's transparent about being sort of lost.

Cakez makes more of an effort typically. The lack of follow through and really good reads or free following thoughts are missing from him.
IE: this game not the typical town cakez.

[farside22]

Cakez makes more of an effort typically. The lack of follow through and really good reads or free following thoughts are missing from him.
IE: this game not the typical town cakez.

Okay, and this game is the typical scum Cakez?

I don't have any experience with scum Cakez (and I barely remember my experience with town Cakez) but my general impression is that players who make an effort do so as either alignment. Do you disagree and think it's common for effort to be a tell?

("Scum Cakez" sounds like the worst Little Debbie product ever)

Idk scum cakez. It's been some time since I played with cakez where he waas scum.
I just see him not really scum hunting. Yes I get he admitted it, but he can't lurk and say nothing.
He didn't even have a set of opinions about anyone but klick. Thats pretty bland at this stage.

[farside22]

Note²: Ragman, describe your reads on the playerlist.

It's too early for me to townread anyone atm, I don't know anybody's metagames.

Scumread: Klick, Luciano

Why is it too early for you to town read people but not to scum-read them? By your logic, how would you know that say Luciano copying his town game wouldn't be something he usually does as town if you don't know his metagame?

I'm okay with Luciano copying his town game regardless of whether it's his metagame or not. I found #48 scummy.
A good scum player can pass off as town, so that makes any of my townreads this early meaningless. If I knew about how people would respond as town in other matches, I can back my townreads with better reason. Even without knowledge of anyone's metagames, it is possible to find AI posts, so scumreading can be backed with more reason early on.

Ragman, I need you to describe your impressions on players in addition to your scumreads. I can't Infer anything from your post 221.

zulfy's and clidds' openings seem to me like genuine curiosity to find scum. I find Hoctac's ISO pro town. Persivul, farside and sircakez look neutral to me.

Why is post 48 scummy?
Which post from zulfy seemed genuine?

@lucky: Your scum read on Clidd is all based on how you started the game and you think based on everything that happened he is scum reacting to your play that is no different then a game you played together....Is that the nutshell?

@Brass: What about Ragman's post made you unvote?

[farside22]

@farside, it's slightly more nuanced than that. Clidd attacked my opening under pretenses that he knows to be false. He explained that it was a reaction test, but my experience with him doesn't lead me to believe that he's the reaction test sort of player. The timing in which he switched from pushing me to defending me lines up with when I called him out on knowingly making a false attack. I'm also worried that he seemed to have operated under the assumption that I was scum prior to engaging in the reaction test, which doesn't show good faith, and that he seems to believe that I will be killed N1. I'm pretty sure he's said in another game that he would kill me N1 if he was mafia, so him already thinking about that this game is concerning to me. It also requires him to assume that I am town, which doesn't align with reaction testing me, and his presumption of guilt when engaging in the reaction test.

Going to reread interaction and get back to this.

I find farside more and more towny as the game goes on. Decent questions, always asking for an explanation on why a certain decision was made. I guess scum can replicate this as well, but they mix in their opinions and really try to understand others and what they're saying.

Yeah I got to stop doing stuff like this.

I'm also worried that he seemed to have operated under the assumption that I was scum prior to engaging in the reaction test, which doesn't show good faith

Why not? Isn't the point to see if any scum alarms get alerted when doing said reaction test? If you don't trigger it, then the assumption goes away? I'm confused about this.

If you are assuming that the person you are testing is scum, you are giving in to confirmation bias. This also ties back to Zulfy's post asking Clidd if there was any reaction I could have given that wouldn't lead him to arguing that I'm town. Clidd didn't seem to have a coherent idea of what sorts of reactions would indicate that I am town, and what sorts of reactions would indicate that I am scum. It felt more like he was scumpainting and he backed off when I called him out on it.

Which post gave you that?

@Brass: What about Ragman's post made you unvote?

It's very hedgey, to me. He's going out of his way to say that "Hey, look I have town reads, but also later on, if I decide to lynch my town reads without any reasoning, it's totally cool because it's day 1."

Makes me uneasy to be on the wagon with him.

I reread his post twice and have no idea how you came to that conclusion.
It sounds like he's just hedging his bets to call anyone scum.

I feel like i did when i created a game where everyone had 2 votes that they could use to either vote a player twice or split their votes between 2 scum reads. If i could do that I'd vote for cakez too right now.

Talk to me about this read because I'm not seeing Cakez scum at all. He could certainly be efforting more (hey Cakez, you really need to effort more) but he just seems like low-energy town. His tone is pretty free and his impressions of the game look natural and unforced, and he's transparent about being sort of lost.

Cakez makes more of an effort typically. The lack of follow through and really good reads or free following thoughts are missing from him.
IE: this game not the typical town cakez.

I'm disengaged :/
Trying to effort more now

brassherald is not improving my read on the Atarashi slot. Hate that entrance.
I like Lucky's recent posts better. I think it's plausible that he just had foot in mouth.
Klick has done nothing to improve my read there so
VOTE: Klick

Let me help more. What about Luckys post did you like?
What is your thoughts about chldd/lucky interaction?

[farside22]

I like your comments, but I don't see anything outside of your scum-rage. The reason I'm townreading you is because of your emotional reaction to my push, especially when Zulfy joined the conversation. So basically from my point of view you are a town with incorrect reads about me and I probably feel that my vote on Ragman intensified your feeling that he would be scum on the Scum!Clidd scenario. In this context, your scumreads start from a distorted perception of the game state, which weakens the accuracy of your general reads on the slots, unless, of course, your evaluation encompasses interpretations outside the speculation that I am scum.

Once again, it's fine to read someone based on their initial scummyness, but have you read what he's been doing afterwards? I had the same thought as you, but from reading his iso and his willingness to admit his frustrations, (coming from a guy who was also frustrated), does it not seem like he is actually, just frustrated? He willingly admits this! That can't be a scum thing to do can it? it's just TOO obvious I feel. His explanations do seem well thought out. Even if a bit defensive.

Now, you might think I'm defending him, but the fact that he is hiding something does sound off alarms, I just can't imagine a scenario that he's scum!Lucky, but why so many secrets.

Maybe he as scum!Lucky is playing that obviously so that town WON'T lynch. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit?

I'm putting you in my town pile. You can be my brain for the rest of the game.

I reread his post twice and have no idea how you came to that conclusion.
It sounds like he's just hedging his bets to call anyone scum.

I believe we are saying the same thing.

That is not something I see coming from town.

[farside22]

meh I reread the interaction and chldd reads as trying to get a reaction out of Lucky. I'm not sure why Lucky thinks this is scummy on it's own. The whole TPR really did not need to be part of this game and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[farside22]

There are 2 players on the wagon that currently are making me a little uncomfortable. 1 hasn't said much and the other is klick.

Klick: why the scum read on hoctac?

[farside22]

UNVOTE: Ragman Saul Rima

He disappeared from the forum, probably hasn't read the topic yet. Consider my vote spiritually on his slot.

He just posted right hours ago, what are you talking about?

Didn't you notice that his last post was 254 and we're going to 385 ?

What did you think of his reply?

Klick: what is your thoughts on hotac and ragman? All i see is list and your reason for your scum read on hotoc read hollow.

[farside22]

VOTE: klick

[farside22]

Klick: what is your thoughts on hotac and ragman? All i see is list and your reason for your scum read on hotoc read hollow.

I've been fairly open about the fact that my read on Hoctac

is

hollow. I don't think I can go into much more detail on Hoctac than I already did in 370 (where I explicitly state that Hoctac isn't a scumread). His posts aren't helping me sort him either way.

The biggest reason I joined the Ragman wagon was because I liked my reads on almost everyone who was on it. He asked a lot of questions early on that didn't lead anywhere. I thought his 'it's too early to townread anyone' thing was pretty weird and a convenient take if he's scum. I don't see any reason he couldn't be scum. But I'm not sold he's scum with any sort of conviction.

Would it help if I added little reference points for what exactly my read on everyone is? That isn't very helpful for me thinking about it that way, but enough people seem confused by my reads that I guess it's necessary.

- TOWN -
{farside22, valoneast, Reundo}
{SirCakez, LuckyLuciano, Umlaut}
{clidd, Persivul, Zulfy, Atarashi Hajimari}
- NEUTRAL -
{Hoctac, Ragman Saul Rima}

- SCUM -

See you have hoctac as scum but then admit it's hollow. And scum tend to have a harder time explaining scum reads.

It's okay there's always next game. I can't tell you how many times in live games I've had to be told I can't choose to kill my teammates and then give away the whole team in a pursuant argument about the value of life.

But, getting back to the actual game and a real discussion of why the reads list is the worst thing to ever happen to mafiascum, the list of names in a random order is the easiest thing for Scum to fake, especially when they give no reasoning at all. I hate them and it's a vote for me.

Read lists suck 2020! #RocktheVote

very, very true.

[farside22]

I find reads lists useful. They help me organize my thoughts and present them in an easy-to-process way. Since some players are town and others are scum, it's useful for me to rank or organize my read on players relative to each other. Ask me about any of my reads and I can tell you why they are where they are on the list.

farside, you've said that I have a scumread on Hoctac right under a quote that says I don't have a scumread on Hoctac.
I always find it easier to townhunt than scumhunt. You can read any game I've played in the past year and find that to be a strong component of my play.

That read list is terrible. Zulfy is barely around and you have a town read. Pers is barely around and a town read.
Basically everyone but 2 players on your list are town and your reason for not town reading them is......???
I don't know any player who has a big town list with few scum reads and looking at your meta i expect better.

Here's how the site has gone in the five years I've been here:

Reads lists suck. We don't need to make them.
Lynch All Liars is outdated. I like making fakeclaims as town because I'm oh so clever I'll out the scum that way.
Holy shit, town win rates are way down! We need to tilt the setups in favor of town!

Im not going to say anything for to you this game other then face emoji

[farside22]

That read list is terrible. Zulfy is barely around and you have a town read.

Pers is barely around

and a town read.

Where are people getting this? I'm the third highest poster, and most of them are on topic.

What do you think of 216?

I think its weird since he called you scum prior to that.
You went quiet for a day and come in with not much new.
Whats your thought on klicks lack of scum reads?

[farside22]

I think if Klick were going to fake a read list they would fake some scum reads while they were at it, not post one with basically everyone neutral at worst. Faking reads isn't really such a tremendous difficulty for scum as people act like it is.

That read list is terrible. Zulfy is barely around and you have a town read.

Pers is barely around

and a town read.

Where are people getting this? I'm the third highest poster, and most of them are on topic.

Your posts are 1-2 sentences long and most of them are "on topic" in the loose sense that they're about the game but don't really do anything to solve it. And you came back from not having posted for a while to make another one-sentence inconsequential comment. Do more.

Hard disagree.

Update:

[Reundo] [Umlaut] [Valoneast] [LuckyLuciano]

[Klick] [SirCakez] [brassherald *BoP*] [farside22] [Hoctac]

[Zulfy] [Persivul]

[Ragman Saul Rima]

Can you explain your klick read to me.

Seeking a replacement for Klick.

This is a trend im starting to take personally.

You have strange feelings then, but nevermind.

Klick's exit here is probably emotional, so I think he's town.

Why? It wasn't like he hasnt played mafia.

Okay, I have probably skimmed like 20 posts.

I have good feelings about Percivul.

Yeah I'm fucking obvtown this game.

Not even clos.

Quick: you going to explain the obv town read.
Your predecessor never explained any reads they had.

[farside22]

Try and stay in the game and we will turn this thing around.

I'm not asking to leave, but I'd be surprised if mod doesn't boot me. I swore in bold like 20 minutes after he sent me a warning. I just can't stand this crap where people can be rude and condescending as long as they don't say fuck you or the like. It's a mafia game, IMO I don't think there's anything wrong with a stray fuck you, but it's not my game. Mod is god.

How dare players ask you to make more then surface level post?? Thats not rude. But if you want to tell me why your reacting over the top pissy about being asked questions I'd listen.

[farside22]

@Mod For what it's worth, I'm not really personally upset by anything Persivul posted at me

Wasn't expecting that big a reaction but now I'm worried that assuming he does get to stay in the game I may have pushed Persivul to just refuse to contribute out of spite. Oh well. Fwiw I'm pretty sure he's town, just wanted to see something concrete because tone isn't really enough to hang a solid read on.

(Honestly I'm kind of surprised that anyone can get IRL offended by anything in a mafia game but it sure seems to happen enough that I have to believe it)

Nah, you did nothing wrong. That reaction was extreme.

[farside22]

How dare players ask you to make more then surface level post?? Thats not rude.

Asking isn't. Ordering is. "Do more" isn't a request, it's an order. I don't do orders.

Read emjoi

[farside22]

I assume the hard disagree is with this:

I think if Klick were going to fake a read list they would fake some scum reads while they were at it, not post one with basically everyone neutral at worst. Faking reads isn't really such a tremendous difficulty for scum as people act like it is.

I guess we just disagree on this then. I can't exactly point to anything to argue the point but I'm not going to scumread someone for having a hard time finding suspects in the early game when that's most of my town games ever.

That was it. Well i looked at klicks meta, he knows how to find scum just find. Ill get links if it help.

I cant say im a fan of his thought process on hotoc and i dont recall how he felt about that in the past.
I do remember it was a peeve of some plays in the past when player fake claim shit.

I have a long history of being against fake claiming.

My Persivul read is airtight. He jokingly hand-waived a wagon on him - bad sign.

Oh do tell, what's the town way to respond to a page 1 L-2 wagon?

He tried not to look serious about a RVS wagon on him and then suddenly turned serious on me.

OK, explain what I was supposed to do between not taking a RVS wagon seriously, and then posting seriously? What kind of transition do you require there from town?

Okay, I changed my mind.

VOTE: Hoctac

Oversensitive newb scum at its finest.

He doesn't have any newbies, so more likely an experienced player hiding behind an alt.

I played Mafia once before.

Why didn't you play newbie games here?

This is the second opportunity since I've joined the site for a D1 lynch. Make it happen people! (I will not be posting for the rest of page one, in order to support the cause.)

Why do you want a page 1 lynch?

VOTE: LuckyLuciano

I didn't like the way he hopped onto the wagon (though I couldn't really put my finger on why not), and I don't like this last post.

This is a decent post for that stage of the game.

I don't even need to read these posts to TR them.

BTW, did I mention Hactoc needs to die?

Thats completelt NAI. It was just an rvs wagon any player worth their salt can respond like that regardless.
Some qustions and vague commentary doesn't equal town.

farside ignores my substantive question, but keeps commenting on my conduct.

Well i wasn't a fan of your attitude but i see the point is mute.

I think Persivul and Quick are speaking in another language, to be honest. I can't understand how the reasoning of both slots works

Yup

Wagon on Persivul probably collapsed because Town has no idea what they are doing and everyone just hopped on the next wagon.

The wagon on Persivul was just RVS garbage, I don't recall him ever picking up a lot of real suspicion.

Yup

I scumread Klick and Quick independently. Would people like to see a scumcase? I'm good at making those.

I am not a night 4 vigilante.

Im curious to see what you say.

Farside, do you think Persivul being toxic is inside his towngame ? I believe you know him better than me.

Ive only seen persivual toxic when something really bothers him. Nothing here that was said should have been responded to with that attitude.
If he said zuffy was actively lurking too then id get the scum attitude. This jus reads as aggressively asshattery scum tactic.

[farside22]

Would you look at who it is. Heads up for everyone else:

Ame relishes in playing scum, so she only replaces into slots she hard scumreads after ISOing them in the replacement queue. Just some food for thought.

Gggreeeeaaaaattttttt.

[farside22]

Seeking a replacement for Ragman Saul Rima.

And there gies my 3rd scum read.
Yup taking it personal. Totally lurking my next game.

Don't like Umlaut's Persivul push. He's attacking Pers for things that are NAI.

This would make sense if I was saying he was scum for those things, but I wasn't saying that and I didn't/don't think he was.

Quick's entrance not helping my read on the slot.

Meaning it's not helping you to form a read, or that it's not making you think it's town?

(I have Quick as a reasonably solid townread atm)

Why a town read?

He just reinforced my scum read. He basically voted on lynch bait material and a player that is mia. Calls pers town and said nothing that says hey im scum hunting

[farside22]

Seeking a replacement for Ragman Saul Rima.

And there gies my 3rd scum read.
Yup taking it personal. Totally lurking my next game.

Don't like Umlaut's Persivul push. He's attacking Pers for things that are NAI.

This would make sense if I was saying he was scum for those things, but I wasn't saying that and I didn't/don't think he was.

Quick's entrance not helping my read on the slot.

Meaning it's not helping you to form a read, or that it's not making you think it's town?

(I have Quick as a reasonably solid townread atm)

Why a town read?

He just reinforced my scum read. He basically voted on lynch bait material and a player that is mia. Calls pers town and said nothing that says hey im scum hunting

Okay, but you are Town for the same reason.

99% sure I did more then that. But you do you and pretend it is otherwise. Please.

So I figured I would link games from Klick that show he can scum read and things that are different

klick town
klick town
klick scum game

So he actively pushes players more with questions as town. The votes he places is for reads and he has idea's for who he is scum reading why,
Scum game showed a weak reason for scum read then does low content in the scum game.
So saying he can't scum hunt in this game is pretty wrong thought process.

This is me not buying the "claim" from quick either.

[farside22]

Yeah, the thing I was going to wait on Quick's response for was that Informed Townie with knowledge of a neighborhood is as far as I can tell totally Normal.

If Quick were scum there is a possibility he would be unsure about that and not want to make that claim, which would make life harder for him. Since he did make that claim I suppose that didn't work, but I can see the post Hoctac calls out as more likely as a crumb than a slip.

Scum could be in the neighborhood that is a thing you know.

[farside22]

@Hoctac: Who is in your neighborhood?

[farside22]

@Hoctac: Who is in your neighborhood?

Atarashi, valonhost, zulfy.

zulfy needs to be here for an proper read on that group.

VOTE: brass

Who else do you scum read beside quick/klick?

[farside22]

I am an Informed Towie and now I am dead. Congrats for ruining the game.

INFORMED TOWNIE

Okay, is that clear enough for you?

Yeah, the thing I was going to wait on Quick's response for was that Informed Townie with knowledge of a neighborhood is as far as I can tell totally Normal.

If Quick were scum there is a possibility he would be unsure about that and not want to make that claim, which would make life harder for him. Since he did make that claim I suppose that didn't work, but I can see the post Hoctac calls out as more likely as a crumb than a slip.

Congrats, Hactoc is the smartest person to ruin a game................

So you think he's town now?

LOL.

What's with this then? You're talking about me like you know I'm town, saying I "ruined the game", but then suggest you're scumreading me in that last post. I think you forgot you were supposed to be scumreading me, didn't ya?

The mOmEnT oF bRiLlIaNcE award is still on the cards!!!£"24

He's just lying and making it out like your at fault.
Again the "informed townie" can be just scum with a member of the scum member in your neighborhood. So don't buy what he is selling, that kool aide be poise.

[farside22]

I am an Informed Towie and now I am dead. Congrats for ruining the game.

INFORMED TOWNIE

Okay, is that clear enough for you?

Yeah, the thing I was going to wait on Quick's response for was that Informed Townie with knowledge of a neighborhood is as far as I can tell totally Normal.

If Quick were scum there is a possibility he would be unsure about that and not want to make that claim, which would make life harder for him. Since he did make that claim I suppose that didn't work, but I can see the post Hoctac calls out as more likely as a crumb than a slip.

Congrats, Hactoc is the smartest person to ruin a game................

So you think he's town now?

LOL.

What's with this then? You're talking about me like you know I'm town, saying I "ruined the game", but then suggest you're scumreading me in that last post. I think you forgot you were supposed to be scumreading me, didn't ya?

The mOmEnT oF bRiLlIaNcE award is still on the cards!!!£"24

He's just lying and making it out like your at fault.
Again the "informed townie" can be just scum with a member of the scum member in your neighborhood. So don't buy what he is selling, that kool aide be poise.

I am so glad you are wrong about your read on me because that makes you Town.

But flesh out you vote.

ssssuuuuurrrreeeee
I'll just ignore everything Klick did and act like it didn't exist.......you know because that is a thing I do.
While you just ramp on about a player that hasn't posted I'm at least voting one that has been around and I noted hasn't really brought much to the table for reads in that group.

[farside22]

v/la till monday

[farside22]

I'll vote wherever farside votes

[post=brass]brass[/post]

I had sheeps

@Hoctac: Who is in your neighborhood?

Atarashi, valonhost, zulfy.

zulfy needs to be here for an proper read on that group.

VOTE: brass

Who else do you scum read beside quick/klick?

I have a BoP on Brass, I still hope he can contribute more.

What is BoP?

VOTE: brassherald

I shall sheep Ame who is sheeping farside.

:taps head:

I hate sheeping.
Ugh!
Your more lucky im town reading you.

How dare players ask you to make more then surface level post?? Thats not rude.

Asking isn't. Ordering is. "Do more" isn't a request, it's an order. I don't do orders.

Read emjoi

Is there some rule on encryption or speaking english only? I don't read teenager. Is this a threat? A warning? Somebody born this century fill me in please.

Persivul was being a bit of a jerk so I didn't want to fight. The emjoi breakdow was basically me feeling confused, seeing him as scummy and wanting him dead.

Here is my Town Core ATM...

Umlaut
Lucky
farside

You know i still dont trust you.

Scum reads: brass, looker, quick, ame
Unsure: zulfy and ulmac (the back and forth read on quick make me feel highly questionable about him)

Someone asked about scum in a neighborhood. Typically I have seen 1 or none. Rarely 2.

[farside22]

farside, why are you voting brass over Quick? Or do you think they're both scum?

Thinking they are both scum, but I am less sure about Quick as he post. More sure about Brass.

VOTE: Quick

There's a neighborhood, right? Who is in it?

Me, brass, valoneast, Zulfy.

One of us is scum with Quick.

If you think there is 1 scum in the neighborhood and there are 3 of you in that group, it becomes a mason group at that point where you guys are almost considered all town. I think reducing that and forcing scum to consider whether to shot out or in the group of the neighborhood will makes things more harder for scum to win if we lynch scum in the neighborhood.

Unsure: zulfy and ulmac (the back and forth read on quick make me feel highly questionable about him)

You mean umlaut here right? Why'd it make you feel questionable

He flip flops on his read rather easily. In fact I have a quote below where he says he is town reading quick. So I don't see why someone would vote a town read.

How about you can be Town for putting me at L-1?

This actually really hits me hard as desperate buddying/bargaining, Quick has been giving me easy townreads all day.

So why the vote on quick?

@farside22: Is your scumread of me due to Ragman Saul Rima's actions or mine?

Both of you looker, both of you.

[farside22]

VOTE: Quick

There's a neighborhood, right? Who is in it?

Me, brass, valoneast, Zulfy.

One of us is scum with Quick.

If you think there is 1 scum in the neighborhood and there are 3 of you in that group, it becomes a mason group at that point where you guys are almost considered all town. I think reducing that and forcing scum to consider whether to shot out or in the group of the neighborhood will makes things more harder for scum to win if we lynch scum in the neighborhood.

I have zero confidence that there wouldn't be two scum in the neighborhood. Ircher would certainly do that (see this setup proposal where he wanted to put an all-Mafia neighborhood in a mini, though the reviewers pretty much nixed that).

Why qre you more interested in hunting outside the neighborhood then?
DO NOT HAMMER YET

[farside22]

What do YOU have to offer, farside?? I doubt you can top that.

Scum team on a plate?
Just let me see what umlaut says.

[farside22]

Why qre you more interested in hunting outside the neighborhood then?
DO NOT HAMMER YET

That's a good point actually, a random lynch in the nhood should be strictly more likely to hit scum since the nhood is

at least

1/4 scum whereas the non-nhood is

at most

2/9 scum (so subjectively 2/8). But I don't think it's a big enough difference to override reads except maybe as a tiebreaker, and the incentive of clearing the other three neighbors if we lynch right doesn't actually work so there's no real mechanical benefit to hitting scum in vs. out of the nhood.

Ok well i feel slightly better about umlaut.
Still feel more confident in brass scum and looker as scum.
Ame is another that reads scummy mostly because of persivul.
Ill hammer if needed.

[farside22]

Actually I'm pretty sure I'm being trolled.

I changed my mind, farside, I'm fine with a hammer.

I would rather hold off. The wagon on quick is something i just want to look through. See again who voted and why.
Plus it pains me not to vote my strongest scum read.
So give me a day or 2.

[farside22]

Ill hammer if needed.

Actually I'm pretty sure I'm being trolled.

I changed my mind, farside, I'm fine with a hammer.

I would rather hold off. The wagon on quick is something i just want to look through. See again who voted and why.
Plus it pains me not to vote my strongest scum read.
So give me a day or 2.

Translation: I wanted to look townie by holding off the hammer that was promised by Ame without actually holding it off. But now that she isn't I have to look townie again.

Are you going to twist my words all game because your scum or is that just a thing you do regardless of alignment?
I don't even think there is a point you made a case on me and just continue to twist what i said twice now. You also sheeped me not too long ago. I understand trying to lynch a player that is widely town read is a good scum strategy, but would you mind picking on someone else. I had a really bad conversation Friday, still feeling really beat up emotionally. If this is a thing you just want to continue to attack for unfound reasons then let me know.

[farside22]

VOTE: farside

I think that's farside22's first vote of the game.

Which means what to you?

Are you going to make a point?


Anyways I looked at the wagon and reason's for players voting Quick. I had a small issue with Cakez only as far as he kept his vote on this spot the longest. I can't remember if he typically does that and it just seems a bit confident for him. Like I said small. It isn't enough to really care since Quick hasn't really done any scum hunting given the time.
If Quick really wanted the wagon to collaspe as town I would think he would make a case on someone at this point. Instead of just telling players to get off of him.

VOTE: Quick

[farside22]

Before the day ends. Still think Ame is scum. Persivul has played a TPR so many time I lost count. His excuse on his play is garbage. Looker.....I didn't really write up what bothered me about him. It's mostly that I don't see a case for why he thinks a player is scummy but he votes for the player. He is in a lot of I'm catching up mode with a few votes in there.

[farside22]

We have 8 days. And I haven't had the chance to catch-up. Please do not hammer yet. Someone should unvote actually.

Sorry do you get to have your cake and eat it too?
Just recently you called it scummy to wait.
Guess only in so far you call the shots of when

[farside22]

Yay.
Ame can be scum sure. We should lynch in hood day 2 tho. I hope me and the other hoodsters stick around for some night sorting.

Agreed. Still think brass is scum in that group.
Persivul attitude makes no sense given the request. He flipped out on something he would say to another player not doing much.

[farside22]

VOTE: brass
Should go after the hood now that we know Quick was telling the truth

We knew there was a hood before quick's death.
VOTE: cakez

[farside22]

I don't doubt brass as scum.
I just wonder why cakez is acting like the neighborhood wasn't a known thing day 1.

[farside22]

Basically the role wasn't a thing cakez really discussed so it's a red flag i want noted.

[farside22]

Sorry for the triple post but i forgot to ask did you all talk in the neighborhood during the night?

[farside22]

Ame: why didn't you read during the night phase.
Just going to say cakez excuse sounds like crap.
Brass is basically scum claiming.
Anyone have any thought before day ends?

[farside22]

wasn't Quick's informed claim that there was scum in the hood?
I wasn't interested before because I was sure he was scum
but I was wrong :/

You knew there was scum in the hood regardless since Klick was aware of the hood. If Klick was scum, then he had a partner in the hood. Are you claiming you were not aware of this?

I didn't realize that, no. I thought Klick/Quick was in the hood.

the Lucky kill is weird

What is weird about it?

Lucky wasn't exactly very townie.

Since when haven't you read a game?
You do realize multiple players pointed out the nighbor claim from hotoc. Which confirmed quicks claim. Your saying you ignored that?

[farside22]

Brass is basically scum claiming.

help me bus then

Why is brass scum over the other claimed neighbors?

[farside22]

wasn't Quick's informed claim that there was scum in the hood?
I wasn't interested before because I was sure he was scum
but I was wrong :/

You knew there was scum in the hood regardless since Klick was aware of the hood. If Klick was scum, then he had a partner in the hood. Are you claiming you were not aware of this?

I didn't realize that, no. I thought Klick/Quick was in the hood.

the Lucky kill is weird

What is weird about it?

Lucky wasn't exactly very townie.

Since when haven't you read a game?
You do realize multiple players pointed out the nighbor claim from hotoc. Which confirmed quicks claim. Your saying you ignored that?

I missed it
I've been confused about the hood all game

I highly doubt that. I don't consider you that dumb.


I'll give ame time to catch up.

[farside22]

Im going to have a chat with persivul post game if true.

[farside22]

I don't like that L-1 from Looker at all. There was still things to be discussed and he just gave that hammer to scum to stop the conversation

[farside22]

Cop claim was so bad day 2. I am surprised ame was town after that. Fake claims by town are bad for the game.
I was surprised the hood had 3 scum. When i saw clidd results i thought umlaut played up knowing scum in the neighborhood pt would have more then one scum.
So hotoc fooled me. Surprised i died n2