Open 79 - Nightless Vanilla (Town Win!) before 611

[sekinj]

Hey Guys! Wow, lots of replacements. What do we have 3 original players??

It's kind of funny, I'm replacing Gimbo in another game.

I've done one read-through and I'm starting my second. Hard to keep the names straight.

[sekinj]

Although light's posts have a high learning curve, I think I understand mostly what they were about. I don't really like how he always brings up that he's friends with the mod... but that's probably personal preference... I see no real reason that my predecessor was voting for him.

unvote

[sekinj]

:/

[sekinj]

My List of Suspects

Town:

sekinj

– that’s me.

Farside

– seems very helpful in the hunt for scum, puts good pressure on, good thoughts

Dybeck

- seems genuine and thorough, ready to find scum. Not afraid to look at all the issues.

??:

Light

– there are some supicions against him, and I don’t like that his first posts had jokes in it that we weren’t supposed to get. I don’t think that was helpful. Yeah, he missed the random voting stage. Boo hoo, Lets cut the outside references and find scum. However, in the posts since the whole percentages was explained, I’ve thought he has had good insight.

Killa

– Eager to play, posted before he was a player, don’t like his lurking and unsubstantial posts

IH

– was gone for quite a spell, significant things happened, couldn’t get much of a read.

FL

– Seems town except for the damning post by Sun. I can’t see Sun trying to pull down a villager, yet FL hasn’t done anything else scummy. Being convinced that she found scum isn’t scummy imo.

Syzygy

– Aegor’s beginning jokes and then backpedaling looked scummy. But I think Aegor ruined things by posting in the thread that he would replace back in for anyone. That would be unthinkable if Aeg was scum, unless he was counting on the mod to replace him as himself or another scum. Obviously otherwise he would know all the scum. *sigh* I wish Aegor hadn’t posted back in the thread. Syz’s post have been short and too the point, but I think have good points (except that having a hit list seems scummy, but it can't be because aegor voluteered to be anyone).

Scummish:

Tajo

– has been coaching since post 53 (and before, but that was the first that jumped out at me). lots of questions, few answers, too seemingly cautious with his reasoning, trying to look like he is seeing both sides.

Lowell

– was lurking at first, starting posting a lot when he needed to defend himself. I didn’t like the flip flopping on sun, or the after the nick of time hammer. I can see being excited about killing scum, but not so much when he didn’t help except for a late hammer.

Maybe post 65 was distancing between lowell and tajo?

vote popular

?

Just random. Unless it's not.

[sekinj]

I don't like the lowell lynch at all. I'd rather have a popu lynch than a lowell lynch, even though my favourite is still a YB (now sekinj) lynch.

And why am I your strongest case? There seems to be much more compelling evidence out there.

[sekinj]

@light - 50%??? WHAT?? NO!!!! There you go, there is the reaction you were looking for. Can we move on now?

[sekinj]

@tajo: are you going to defend yourself? It looks like we all agree on lynching you.

[sekinj]

@Sekinj: I was refering to the percents bothering you, but I really don't know what you are, so you are at the 50 mark, obviously.

I know that's what you were refering too. I just saw that YB was 12% in the first fake percentage list and now I was 50%. So I gave you a show.

and now here I am talking about the dumb percentages AGAIN.

[sekinj]

@lowell: fl is not wiling to explain her case against me, and you say she is scum. Are you willing to explain your case against me?

[sekinj]

@lowell: that is understandable. Unfortunetly I obviously cannot explain his actions on the sun lynch, but I can see how they look scummy.

I do think that the case against you and tajo are stronger, however.

[sekinj]

I am at work and reading, but to quick comment:

not that it is necessarily true, but what you just did, with Tajo and Poro, is similar to distancing.

BBL: (about 7 hours)

What post is this in responcse too?

[sekinj]

EBWOP
and THAT looked strange enough for me to start asking questions.

Votecount:
Lowell - 5 (killa seven, farside22, Light-kun, IH, dybeck)
FaerieLord - 2 (Lowell, Syzygy)
sekinj - 1 (FaerieLord)
Not voting: populartajo, sekinj
6 to lynch.

why do you have my voting FL? that is incorrect. I woudl still rather go for Lowell today and then see about tajo...

[sekinj]

EBWOP
and THAT looked strange enough for me to start asking questions.

Votecount:
Lowell - 5 (killa seven, farside22, Light-kun, IH, dybeck)
FaerieLord - 2 (Lowell, Syzygy)
sekinj - 1 (FaerieLord)
Not voting: populartajo, sekinj
6 to lynch.

why do you have my voting FL? that is incorrect. I woudl still rather go for Lowell today and then see about tajo...

EBWOP: I'm dumb. I thought tajo said that, but obviously the mod edited it in. Sorry!

[sekinj]

I know I'm not voting anyone currently. I think they are both suspicous. Let me look back through and build a case.

[sekinj]

Pbpa: tajo – For readability I just put “” on the posts I wanted to quote and paraphrased his other posts. Several posts I just quote what he said to show that he really hardly posts any content at all

Post 1:

This is one of his longest posts. He calls some people out for jumping on wagons.

This is interesting because later he jumps on the light wagon saying “I have a bad feeling”

Post 2:

“Kay but dont you think there are more possibilities of scum being in more bandwagons than town?”

Post 3:

“So what are you exactly proposing?
We lynch the guy who speedlynches?
Why dont we define speed lynching first?
Could you link me to that previous game you're talking about?
About Aegor's case, meh, why”

I don’t like all of his questions. He asks questions, questions, questions of everyone else but NEVER comes back and commits to what HE thinks. He barely acknowledges the answers. In several of these past and his upcoming posts I’ve striped out whoever he was quoting and I’m just show that he asks question after question without actually providing any CONTENT.

Post 4:

“So do you admit you did it for the reactions? Oh no, here we go again.”

Post 5:

“Whats wrong with my questions? Whats wrong with me defending Aegor? Actually I wasnt defending him, Im trying to find why the hell did he do that.”

Post 6:

“Aegor, what reactions have you seen so far? Was it worthy?”

Post 7:

“?”

Wow, now that is a worthy post. I’m sure he put a lot of thought into it

Post 9:

“If Aegor is town then there's like a big percentage of being one scum in that wagon. @Aegor, do you like reaction testers?”

Post 10:

“That was like the fastest answer ever. Lowell do you sincerely think Aegor is scum?”

Post 11:

“Can you explain which are correct?”

Post 12:

“Can you elaborate on this percentage, Light?”

Post 13:

“Discuss.”

again, he shares his thoughts and suspicions in a very clear way.. NOT!

Post 14:

“Vote: Light I have a bad feeling about him.

Great. Or maybe you have heartburn.

Post 16:

“Sun Tzu is making too much sense for my taste. He wasnt like this when he entered the game. Why is that, Sun?”

I don’t know what he means by Sun “making too much sense”. Sun started the game stoned, and proceeded to play incredibly angry and stupid. If that is what tajo means by “sense”……

“If I dont get a decent answer Im willing to vote him.”

What answer would have been decent? I don’t know what he is looking for here. Why is he holding back his vote? (because he is scum).

“Asking for claims is dumb becuase we are all vanillas, right?”

COACHING!!

“FoS : Killa Seven
Also Gimbo=Aegor in that last play. Gimbo, do you think Sun is scum for having reacted like
that t your post? Yes or no. Why.”

more questions directed at others. deflecting

Post 17:

“I meant that you tried the same gambit Aegor did in the beginning about talking about the game outside.
...........
Sun why are you making sense now? Were you like high when you entered the game? Please
answer my question.”

pushes for answers, yet never provides any of his own, still holding back his vote for the obvious scum

“Im still trying to find out if Sun not knowing he was replacing Lquiz and voting for him is a
scumtell or a towntell. Any ideas?”

ya think? Many people are already voting Sun at this point, why is he asking for ideas?

“As the post progresses I have the feeling that if Gimbo is town then Sun is scum or viceversa”

His List of Suspects is two people long, and he is voting for neither…

Still feeling bad about Light. There's something tricky in that post where he didnt vote
Blackberry.

this is his only evidence against that person he is voting??? something tricky?? Huh?

Post 18:

“Accoriding to IH we now have one more life. I need to reread the game now that Sun was scum. He never answered my questions. One thing Im noticing is that he really was angry about his lynch, like really angry and frustrated. Would it be possible that some scumpartners were in his wagon taking in count he was probably the lynch of the day?”

complains that Sun didn’t answer his questions. He asked sun, “why are you now making sense?” What was Sun supposed to say? I’m not sure why Tajo is STILL pushing that Sun never answered his question. Would that have given us SO much more insight? Also, I think there is a good chance he was bussed, but I don’t think his anger is any indication. He just seems like a crazy, stoned, angry noob, imo.

Post 19:

Link me to that game please.
Funny how my idea started a really quick wagon. Can all the voters explain why FL is the vote
today?
If Faerie Lord is town this wagon will tell us much about the wagoners.

I think this is pure deflection, Tajo gets on his soapbox about wagons whenever he isn’t a part of one.

Post 21:

Rereading and to be honest, Im still not seeing what Farside is seeing. For the moment I don’t support a FL lynch.
Light, whats the logic behind a FL lynch in a worse comes to worse?
Lowell suggesting that we lynch Fl instead of him seems a desesperate maneuver. Why do you
think FL is 100% scum?

doesn’t support a lynch, big surprise there, tajo is not willing to commit. Still gives NO evidence one way or another. WHY does he not support a lynch?? WHY does he think Light is suspicious? These are all questions he should answer for the town instead of pushing questions off on everyone else.”

Post 22:

Mmmm. Didnt I say this before?

Post 23:

Poor Gimbo. Fos Aegor

WHY??? Explanations would be great.

Post 24:

Light, who do you think would like more to rejoin this game: scum or town?

Post 25:

What theory? I was just asking him a question.

These last four posts again show him asking questions, and yet again providing no insight to help the town. If Tajo DOES flip town, he certainly hasn’t helped the town very much so far.

[sekinj]

Does anyone else deserve to go under the microscope today before we vote one of them?

killa seven is scum. But he can wait till tomorrow if necessary.

Wow. that's a pretty sure statement. I agree that killa is suspicious, but I statements like that without any backing or reasoning included make me jumpy...

Votecount:
Lowell - 3 (killa seven, Light-kun, IH)
FaerieLord - 2 (Lowell, Syzygy)
populartajo - 2 (farside22, dybeck)
sekinj - 1 (FaerieLord)
Not voting: populartajo, sekinj
6 to lynch.

[sekinj]

Okay then, who is a better choice to lynch?

*assumes enough time has passed, and no one has a other ideas.*

Lowell or Pop?

I slightly prefer Lowell, but Lowell doesn't seem as scummy as Pop right now. So, who should we go after?

I'm going to go back through and look at Lowell's posts again. and then I'll vote for one or the other.

[sekinj]

Pbpa Lowell: Again, some posts I quote using “”, and others I paraphrase

Posts 1 and 2:

lolvotes tajo

I already mentioned this, but this vote could be distancing. <wifom> I wouldn’t expect a player as experienced as Lowell to say “just random. Unless it’s not.” if it is true distancing, but then again maybe he would… <wifom>

Post 3:

votes aegor.

I can’t tell if this is a lolvote or not.

Posts 4 through 6:

goading of other players, jokes, etc..

not much content

Post 7:

defends Lquiz

(if you can call one sentence a defense)

and asks for more votes on Aegor

Looks like his vote on Aegor was serious, however since he posted no reasoning, it’s hard to tell why

Post 9:

laughs off being accused of lurking

Post 10:

Threatens to OMGUS my predecessor’s brains out.

I’m not if that even makes sense, but I sure hope it doesn’t carry over to me.

Post 11:

Start of the defense of Sun. Says he can’t see scum being that stupid

Post 12:

“Yup. Sun Tzu makes my town list.”

What I’m really missing from Lowell’s posts is some sort of

reasoning

. Something that would convince me that he is trying to pull for the town.

Post 13:

Defends Sun again, wants to pursue my predecessor for being useless.

That is a weak argument to try to lynch someone, but I DO hope I have been more “useful” than Yellowbounder.

Post 15:

seems finally convinced of Sun’s scumminess, compliments everyone else

Post 16:

votes m4yhem, says the light wagon looks weak

I agree about the light-kun wagon, I never really saw anything there. I really would like something to back up his vote against m4yhem. Is he just choosing random people? I just can’t tell from his posts.

Post 17:

moves vote to m4yhem’s replacement ennui

Since Lowell was suspicious of this position (for undisclosed reasons) I wonder what Lowell’s opinion is of dybeck (the current manifestation of blackberry, m4yhem, ennui, and bogre).

Post 18:

states a defense of YB

Post 19:

“I thought he was town because he was too active for a newbie to be scum”

need I say, terrible wifom

Post 20:

“That’s not a super-thoughtful reason”

Ha!! Hello Kettle!! This was in response to Gimbo voting Lowell for a scummy post-Sun reveal post. At least gimbo GAVE a reason, unlike every other of Lowell’s votes.

Post 21:

Defends his defense of Sun

IMO, this is where Lowell really starts playing. Only after someone votes for him does he start making posts that have content and even one that has a little bit of length to it.

Post 22:

says when he replaces he is careful as scum, but not as town. And that he mis-applied that concept to Sun.

Post 23:

votes FL based on Sun’s comment. Gives credit to farside

trying to get townie points?

Post 25:

again must defend himself for defending Sun, re-asserts the FL vote, against give fareside.

I’m not AT ALL anxious to get on a wagon with Lowell, even if I wasn’t suspicious of him. He doesn’t give reasons for his votes when he makes them, so if he is wrong like he was with Sun, he has to do an awful lot of backpedaling, which is exactly what makes me suspicious of him. I do not trust his lack of reasoning behind his votes (or his failure to share that reasoning, if it even exists)

Post 26:

suggests lynching my other predecessor to save his own skin.

I understand self-preservation, but a townie’s goal is for the town to win by killing scum, not sacrificing other townies.

Post 27:

again wants to preserve his own skin, mentions farside’s comment on FL

I’m not sure why he mentions farside EVERY time he brings up his case against FL. Maybe it is because he doesn’t have much of a case. Also, is he really wanting to “make it to endgame” at any cost?? scumtastic

Post 28:

again wants to lynch someone else

would ANY lynch make you happy besides your own??

Post 29:

restates that his only case against FL is sun’s comment.

I agree sun’s comment is damning, but I can’t lynch someone for one newbie’s post, a crazy angry newbie at that. FL has been showing much more pro-town characteristics than Lowell has, that’s for sure.

Post 31:

restates most of what he has already said, trying to defend himself

Post 32:

brings up the aegor/gimbo spoiler/

on this subject, I completely agree that given aegor’s comments, he must be town. It is interesting that Gimbo was the one who was the first to step forward and vote for Lowell

Post 34:

summarizes the voting and some of the posting up to that point. Lists his town and scum lists.

agree with the tajo suspicion for sure.

Post 36:

adds dybeck to town list

Post 37:

says he’s willing to switch vote to tajo since no one is convinced about FL. Says I’m scummy, for no reason that I can see…

Post 38:

says we need to keep him alive so he can help the town.

Has a high opinion of himself. I’m not saying it’s always good or always works, but I know of several times when townie’s were willing to go ahead and sacrifice themselves IF they had become too much of a distraction from finding the real scum… I guess this isn’t one of those cases.

the rest:

okay I just tired at this point because his last 8 posts he just repeats himself. He goes on wondering why people aren’t convinced when he just says the same one liner over and over regarding his “case” against FL.

Post 45:

says not everyone has taken a stance on tajo.

I actually think more people are more convinced of tajo’s scumminess than lowell’s, however, I believe we will get more information from Lowell’s lynch. We obviously don’t have to be afraid that tajo is going to pop us in the night. However, if Lowell lives he could still be a danger tomorrow in trying to sway us into a mis-lynch.

[sekinj]

I can see that people are heading towards tajo at this point, and that’s fine, I think either is a good choice, but for me

Vote: Lowell

[sekinj]

Tajo really hasn't made a case or a stand against anyone. If he is lynched and is scum, great. If, however, he turns out town, we have no more leads to go on than we did before, except maybe looking at the people who suspected him (which is pretty much everyone).

Now on Lowell, he has buddied up to Farside (trying to flatter a more townie player?) and has made quite a push against FL. So, if he turns out scum, we can see that FL is cleared for the most part, and can try to conside what his flattery of farside means. But if he is town, then maybe there is something to the FL case, and her trying to buddy up to Lowell was a tactic to get him off her back.

So, again, I think we stand to gain much more information from a lowell lynch today. I think a huge factor is that we don't have to be afraid of a night kill, even though I am convinced that one or both of them are scum.

[sekinj]

well, does anyone have anything more to add? It looks like Lowell is ahead so do we want to go ahead with him? I'd be fine switching back over to tajo.

Votecount:
Lowell - 4 (killa seven, IH, sekinj, dybeck)
populartajo - 3 (farside22, FaerieLord, Light-kun)
FaerieLord - 2 (Lowell, Syzygy)
Not voting: populartajo
6 to lynch.

[sekinj]

I beleive in the tajo one as well. Lowell being town DOES make me wodner about FL. But I think tajo/BM is a better move right now since he seems MUCH more scummier than FL.

Vote: Battle Mage

[sekinj]

well, I'm not sure what else to add...

I'd like to see if others are still suspicous of tajo/BM... maybe in the form of a vote?

[sekinj]

Why do people keep combining the r and n in my name into an m? Mike-bum-fire makes it sound like I gots hemorrhoids or something. Anyway, reread soon.

lol

[sekinj]

Whoa... Isn't one of the rules to have fun?. I'm sorry, but mike-bum-fire is pretty darn funny.

It's not like I have a pattern of lurking or something.

[sekinj]

I say we lynch BM and then Light as he annoys me for some reason.

I don't count annoyance as a scumtell. Do you have a case to make at all?

[sekinj]

Post 504: I don't like this post at all

Why BM?

Also, I think I waited on voting BM because I was waiting on a post, but his absence indicates to me that he has already given up...? (I really don't know, and this is a complete guess.)

Vote: Battle Mage

Wait, what?

Also, ITC, Light's gimmick is exposed. Bam!

This post got to me too, but I thought maybe I was being biased because he is goading me in it and calling for my lynch (is he trying to say lynch all laughers?). The post seems out of character for what I've seen so far from Light.

[sekinj]

EBWOP: in the last post I was referencing Light's post #504 in case it wasn't clear.

[sekinj]

Sekinj: My post style is fairly unpredictable. Enjoy. *HOWEVER*
Post 504=very annoyed Light-kun. However, Sekinj, I am very slightly surprised from you. I expected you to actually realize that your style of play has been fine, but I was mostly pointing out Mikey-boy. Plus, is it really that shocking after the percents?

It always gets to me if people accuse me of not contributing. I rather pride myself on NOT being a lurker.

Fixed a tag.

[sekinj]

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:58 am Post subject: 517

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EBWOP:

Sekinj: My post style is fairly unpredictable. Enjoy. *HOWEVER*
Post 504=very annoyed Light-kun. However, Sekinj, I am very slightly surprised from you. I expected you to actually realize that your style of play has been fine, but I was mostly pointing out Mikey-boy. Plus, is it really that shocking after the percents?

It always gets to me if people accuse me of not contributing. I rather pride myself on NOT being a lurker.

[sekinj]

My first suspicion is BM, who currently has my vote.

I think Lowell's town flip puts FL into doubt as well. However, I am MORE suspicious of Killa's lurking and silence during the Sun phase.

[sekinj]

I will swap my vote as well, even though I dislike jumping votes every where. Although tajo's posting was pretty damning, I don't like to lynch someone who hasnt' even posted AT ALL (as unfair as that is). Maybe one of them will clime in sometime...

Vote: k7

[sekinj]

EBWOP: clime = chime

[sekinj]

unvote, vote: k7

[sekinj]

Maybe BM just read the last 10 pages and saw it was hopeless?? I can actually see this happening with BM as town or scum... Though wouldn't scum come in and try to generate sympathy for his untenable situation? Maybe a townie just wouldn't care... or maybe it's all wifom...

[sekinj]

Wow. I guess we can't count.

[sekinj]

I've was suspicious of him yesterday and they before if I remember correctly, and he hasn't said anything to clear that up... maybe because he hasn't said anything at all...

Vote: K7

[sekinj]

ITT, I present a case on yellowbounder / sekinj / who else replaced him

Day starts normally, a random vote and bang, yellowbounder jumps onto the first wagon! An Aegor one. L-3, and apparently a serious vote.

He then proceeds to defending him while he still has his vote on him, to which he answers

Both bandwagons, and Aegor's "claim" are not serious. Or at least, as serious as Page 1 and 2 bandwagons can get. No one's barely done anything even remotely pro or anti town yet. Calm down.

He basically excused himself by saying that the bandwagon was not serious, which it was, since the wagon moved forwar, for some reason

When it did move forward, he decides that he wants to stay off it. Opportune time to jump off a wagon. Let it gain traction, then jump right before it ends you can say "I was never on that wagon."

Also, lovely when you see that it was not as strong as you think, as lowell pointed out here

You mean the 2-vote wagon? Yeah, way too fast. Very prudent.

He jumped off after while it was still slow. So basically, he was just trying to get out of the limelight, since it was not a fast wagon at all.

Then, we have this beauty

You say very little Lowell. Very little indeed. I mean, you could at least try and put some meat in your post, you're mostly just echoing the consensus, and don't push anything new. Be bold, you know?
unvote, vote Lowell

1) It's a quickly assembled case of OMGUS since lowell called him out on his opportunistic jump out of the wagon
2) It's a pot / kettle situation. Length of posts by yellowbounder average at...a bit less than 2 lines. Lots of things to digest in there!

Then I replace in and call him out on it, to which he responds

2) I suppose I should post more, but I haven't seen anything that makes me suspicious in the extreme towards anyone. I'll go with Lowell for now.

And please not that he is voting Lowell because he said lowell has not participated in any scumhunting yet. Yet he still hasn't found any thing scummy yet either. A bit of hypocrisy in the morning always tastes good

Then he jumps onto the Sun wagon, with this lovely line

You're worse the Lowell, and me.

Yeah, that almost talks for itself there

Now, we shall pass onto Chelsea fan

He starts off by rereading and all, nothing to complain about this.

When asked why he voted Light Kun after his reread

Also as to why I voted Light he seemed the scummiest to me before the Sun wagon started. That took most of the meaty pages and I felt light was the scummiest and deserved my vote.

As you can see his reasoning is "he was the scummiest." Well way to go sherlock

Now, I love how he conforms here. At first, during his reread he said I was "pretty town" (and that's a quote) now look at this

I find the rasoning for the FL lynching's to be..questionable.

and

I honestly don't see what Sun said as a link to FL , or at best a very weak one, but maybe that's just me?

After just two days. He sees that my wagon is attracting people, so what does he do? He goes middle ground ready to hop on if the opportunity arises

After that he replaced out.

I can’t defend the previous. I have no idea why my predessors did what they did. I can see how some of it looks scummy, especially the hoping votes and flip flopping on issues, but I can’t explain what they meant by it or why they did or said any of it.

Moving onto sekinj

She unvotes at first, pointing out that she saw nothing to the light vote chelseafan had placed (Don't worry, he didn't either).

Does a townie / scum list that looks very safe, but other than that, no qualms. It was solid

Asks me to say the case on her, which I'm doing now

Jokes, then tells tajo to defend himself even though he's going to be lynched. And then she jokes about the percentages again

I can’t quite see what you think is scummy about any of these points…

Fluff posts follow here. It's not as if she tried to find scum, all she did was wait for tajo / lowell to be lynched

I evaluated all the players and gave my thoughts about each as sort of a catch up for myself. I then waited until I had enough personal time to take a closer look at the two suspects I listed as the most suspicious early on. I wasn’t just waiting around and voting for the highest ranking character, I built my own case about each of them.

Does a PBPA and says she finds killa suspicious too (That's 3 people guys. The 3 people that were found as scummiest by town in general)

I guess I just don’t like lurkers. I listed killa as suspicious in my earliest post about all the players. I mention that FL is suspicious as well in several places. If momentum seems to be gaining around a person that is also on my scummy list, it perks my interest and I do a pbpa.

Does another PBPA, then she votes lowell even though she saw merit behind the tajo case (could be with the fact that he found her slightly scummy or....tajo is her scum partner. Well, was anyway. Or it could be both)

She then does another couple of fluff posts, just confirming that lowell is the lynch

Most of what you are calling “fluff” posts is my trying encourage people to participate.

Oh, a new day now, and she votes Tajo's replacement. No, scum hunting is for the week. Let's just jump on to the real wagon here.

Ummm… I already made up my mind and nothing overnight made any changes to the scummy way tajo had played. So yeah, I voted the player I found most suspicious.

And more fluff posts, including bum fire.

Then she jumps onto the k7 wagon, just because it has more traction. She even admits it herself

I will swap my vote as well,

here. Note the as well part, since all of this is in isolation

I just felt we were at a stand still, as I mention. I didn’t know that BM had already been lynched. My next several posts show that I didn’t know we were in twilight.

Then she notices Tajo was lynched (wait, did she just unvote Tajo? Hoping it wasn't a lynch? Derailing for the win here)

I didn’t know day had ended. It seemed like we were going no where and neither of my suspects were talking. I didn’t realize until my Post 35 that Tajo had been lynched.

Then she votes K7 again since it's a new day, yet still not a new opinion

and that's pretty much it

Yeah, notice a pattern? I make up my mind and stick with that decision unless something significant happens to change it. Again, I don’t know what is scummy about that.

Now, I invite everyone who didn't think TL;DR here to show me scum hunting by either of these three. Also, I'd like anyone to tell me where one of these people has taken a strong stance on anyone or anything. The stances that they have taken have either been OMGUS / Pot/Kettle (YB on Lowell) or not though out (CF on Light) or else just not stances. Rather agreeing with your neighbour (Hi Sekinj!)

I haven’t picked anyone out of the blue to be suspicious of, instead of I’ve picked people who are acting scummy. I have built my own case each time.

[sekinj]

I can’t quite see what you think is scummy about any of these points…

There isn't anything. It's just for the sake of being comprehensive.

Most of what you are calling “fluff” posts is my trying encourage people to participate.

Telling people to contribute is not contributing yourself

Yeah, notice a pattern? I make up my mind and stick with that decision unless something significant happens to change it. Again, I don’t know what is scummy about that.

Really? The only pattern I can see here is you bandwagonning on easy targets

I haven’t picked anyone out of the blue to be suspicious of, instead of I’ve picked people who are acting scummy. I have built my own case each time.

Doing a PBPA =! building your own case

the pbpas bring up points that others did not catch. so far two people that I've found scummy have been lynched, and one of them has been scum. If I can continue to get one scum per townie I mislynch, town wins! Since we don't have to worry about night kills, that plan works. Of course I would rather lynch only scum, but even I'm not that good.

[sekinj]

the pbpas bring up points that others did not catch. so far two people that I've found scummy have been lynched, and one of them has been scum. If I can continue to get one scum per townie I mislynch, town wins! Since we don't have to worry about night kills, that plan works. Of course I would rather lynch only scum, but even I'm not that good.

Yet you have not been fully towards the tajo lynch. In day one you said "you see the merit in the tajo case, but voted lowell." and it was the same thing yesterday. Not knowing that Tajo had already been lynched, you changed your vote to killa hoping to derail the wagon.

Saying you were trying to lynch tajo is false. You were only following townie belief

I was not hoping to derail any wagon! I just wanted something to happen, since I thought my tajo vote was going no where fast. You are putting scummy motives onto my actions that just aren't there. I WAS convinced that tajo was scum and DID want him lynched.

[sekinj]

I'm not sure where we are at right now on the votes. And Since FL has jumped all over me for not knowing when the last day ended, I'm waiting for a vote count before I do anything else.

[sekinj]

since I thought my tajo vote was going no where fast.

That's not true. Your tajo voted caused a lynch.

BUT I DID NOT REALIZE THAT BECUASE I DIDN'T KNOW THE DAY HAD ENDED!

I WAS convinced that tajo was scum and DID want him lynched.

Then why did you unvote him when the wagon was at full strength? Also, why say "you can see the merit in the tajo case" but then decide to vote lowell. It's obvious that tajo was never your intended lynchee

BECAUSE THE THREAD HAD STALLED AND NOTHING WAS HAPPENING. I didn't know the day had ended! My goodness, you are being ridiculous about this. I didn't know the day had ended! I didn't know tajo was lynched! I was moving on to my next suspect because I didn't know the day had ended!!

This is, at best, an odd interpretation of the facts, FL.

If you take the last post out of content, then yes it is.

But still, the entire case does not revolve around only this.

Sekinj has still never even tried to scum hunt. She has only pushed wagons that were already there. Plus there was still the massive lurking from bounder, and the no idea why you did that vote from chelseafan. While I know that she cannot answer for them, it does not make them not scummy

So you suspect me for finding people scummy that the rest of the town agrees are scummy? I'm sorry my scumdar isn't up to your standards, but I'm not going to pick random people and make everything they do look scummy despite everything they say to the contrary and when there are other suspects more worth pursuing. (sound familiar??)

Since you are not listening to me, I'm done with this conversation. I can only repeat my true intentions while you try to twist them to make them scummy.

[sekinj]

I'm still waiting for a vote count.

[sekinj]

Mod: Can we get a vote count or a lynch or whatever we are at right now? I'm sorry to come across as disrespectful, but the game has stalled waiting for our current status. I'm not sure I understand how we have been getting replacements and deadline notices, but have not had a vote count since last Tuesday. A week seems a little long to wait for a VC.

Thank you. I again apologize for the disrespectful tone.

[sekinj]

someone eager to send in his or her night kill..

that's exactly it... EXCEPT THIS IS A NIGHTLESS GAME!!! get your games straight.

[sekinj]

Grrr... I guess it's time for me to start scrubbing... I'm really not liking my predecessors right now...

[sekinj]

I can see why so many people replaced out of this game.

Now that the weekend is over, I'm currently looking back to try to come up with townie points for YB and CF.

[sekinj]

I would talk to you FL, but I'm not sure what to say... several people admit that I've been pro-town, yet I'm still on the chopping block (I know my votes are still low, but I'm the only one being voted for today). I'm not whining, I just don't like the mess YB and CF made of things. They have severely limited what good I can do for the town.

So, I'm going to just ignore that and instead make a case on my top suspect.

[sekinj]

But Aegor cam back and offered to replace back in for "any role". I don't think he could do that if he were scum. And he would KNOW that he couldn't replace back in as town if he WERE scum in his original role.

[sekinj]

But Aegor cam back and offered to replace back in for "any role". I don't think he could do that if he were scum. And he would KNOW that he couldn't replace back in as town if he WERE scum in his original role.

Aegor wanted to replace his any role, but he did see that the person who replaced him needed to be replaced and was willing to take that spot since it was his.

He said he would replace in for his old role, or any other role. I just really can't understand how he could post this if he was scum in his first role... It seems like a dumb townie mistake. (and by the way, I think he should be punished in some way for posting in a game that he wasn't supposed to be in and messing things up. He should have just PMed the mod, but that's imo.)

[sekinj]

@anyone who believes Korts is scum: Is there anyway you can explain to me how it would work for a replaced scum to come back in to replace in any other role but his original?

[sekinj]

Welcome wolf! you are our only confirmed townie!

[sekinj]

Wolf is not confirmed townie.
Remember, if Aegor wanted his old role back too, then we could assume he knew his role was scum. Thus, if he said specifically: "I want my role back." without mention the possibility of being another character, then he would be concluded as scum. That would be a huge error. So, he is not confirmed.

I think the only confirmed townie, at this point, is a dead townie.

Anyway, I will take Aegor's role and do an inspection of it tomorrow evening. Farside, I assume you had rather do Sekinj.

If Aegor was scum, he wouldn't have said, "i want my role or any other." He could not possibly replace in at any other role with the knowledge that his old role was scum. He would obviously just vote to lynch his old replacement.

[sekinj]

EBWOP: more on that subject: if he were scum, the above would have been obvious to him. Since he was town, he didn't think of that when he posted that he was willing to replace back in for any role.

I'm not sure why people aren't getting this.

[sekinj]

my current suspect list most to least scummy:
FairieLord
Az
Light
dalt
farside

town:
wolf
sekinj

[sekinj]

@sekinj. Other than for voting you, do you have any reasoning?

well, I guess it comes back to sun trying to drag you down. I thought other people were more scummy earlier, but now I think it is time to come back to this. I'm not seeing good cases on anyone, and i obviously don't believe the case against me.

@FL: I'd be curious as to any case you had on a #2 suspect.

[sekinj]

@FL: So your only answer is that I am scum? that seems very short-sighted to me. What happens if you get your way then I flip town?

[sekinj]

@FL: There are two more scum left! Even if you belive I am scum, lynching me is not going to solve the town's problem. You are getting tunnel vision.

[sekinj]

hi cavebear

hi neko

good luck in the re-read....

[sekinj]

I'm suspicious for saying hi? wow.

will address other points later.

[sekinj]

Sekinj is giving me really weird vibes. I can't help but feel that she

knows

I'm town and is making an early point of getting on my side so that if/when I'm lynched, she can pick up some townie points.

All that from 'Hi neko'? That's a bit of a stretch. I do like to say hi to a familar face, and I'd be pretty disspointed if all it took to get on your side and get townie points from you was to say the word 'hi'. This just strikes me as you trying to come out on the offensive and look townie to the rest of us right from the start.

@FL: There are two more scum left! Even if you belive I am scum, lynching me is not going to solve the town's problem. You are getting tunnel vision.

This makes me lol. "Even if I'm scum, you could lynch a different scum instead!" Lynching one scum at a time is all we can do, sekinj.

My point was that FL is not looking beyond today's lynch. I don't understand how anyone can have a single suspicion in a game with two scum left. She doesn't even have a most to least scummy list, just that I am scum and that is the end. It just doesn't make sense.

[sekinj]

Hmm. The Light case got much longer. I'd say he's more likely to be scum, too, but either would work. Tertiary choice at this point is probably Sekinj (the post pointed out by Neko as well as the massive PBPA-posts don't sit right with me.)

Please explain what doesn't "sit right" and maybe I can explain it too you. As it is, not sitting right could just mean your computer chair has a loose wheel.

[sekinj]

All that from 'Hi neko'?

No no no. I'm talking about the "Aegor is cleared" thing (hi, I'm Aegor, btw). I do appreciate the greeting, though. Nice to see you but I'm afraid you might be scum and might need to die soon

Ah! thanks for the clarification. I was befuddled there. It still comes down to the same thing: I just can't see how Aegor could be scum and say that he wanted to replace in "for his role or any other". I AM 100%convinced you are town, because of Aegor's after-replacement interjection. Although I think he was PLAYING scummy, I cannot reconcile that comment with him being scum.

As for FL, if she is dead certain that you're scum, then she should indeed have at least some idea who might be your partner. Your post does, however, sound like you're trying desperately to get the attention off yourself. Specifically, it's the "Lynching me won't solve the town's problems" part that bothers me the most.

well, lynching me is NOT going to solve the town's problems... we would still ahve 2 scum and one less townie... I was, in fact, feeling a little desperate, because the only votes were on me. Then after my lynch everyone would be back to square one. I didn't like the idea of being lynched and leaving the town with no where else to go. That is the main reason I asked about FL's second suspect, just to get people thinking. I've done this before if anyone is interested in meta-evidence...

[sekinj]

I actually think more people are more convinced of tajo’s scumminess than lowell’s, however, I believe we will get more information from Lowell’s lynch. We obviously don’t have to be afraid that tajo is going to pop us in the night. However, if Lowell lives he could still be a danger tomorrow in trying to sway us into a mis-lynch.

Her big reason for voting Lowell over pop is that she was worried he'd otherwise "lead them to a mislynch"? That's it? Even though pop was scummier?

Everyone agreed that pop was scummy. I felt we would

gain more information from the lowell lynch as I stated in the quote above.

We could actually DO something with information. In this game is not a danger to have scum hanging around because they aren't going to kill us. Therefore, when I think two people are scummy, one we can also get info from and the other we can't (because tajo was just a lurker at that point), I'm going to go with the one we can get info from.

For reference, my point in the PBPA of pop was this:

If Tajo DOES flip town, he certainly hasn’t helped the town very much so far.

This would've been very scummy - if Tajo'd flipped town. Tajo didn't flip town. Scum would've known that. If he'd been town, the aggressive analysis followed by the very not-taking-responsibility-if-this-goes-wrong would've looked really bad.

Maybe that is scummy, but my point was that we wouldn't be losing a very valuable player if tajo WAS town. I would have stood by that whether or not tajo flipped town. I prefer to think of it as ruthless.

[sekinj]

Everyone agreed that pop was scummy. I felt we would

gain more information from the lowell lynch as I stated in the quote above.

We could actually DO something with information. In this game is not a danger to have scum hanging around because they aren't going to kill us. Therefore, when I think two people are scummy, one we can also get info from and the other we can't (because tajo was just a lurker at that point), I'm going to go with the one we can get info from.

I'm of the opinion that if one player is significantly scummier (not taking lurking into consideration one way or the other) than another, the scummiest player should be lynched. "Lynching for information" is way too easy to use as a cop-out. The "we can lynch them later" is a very dangerous argument, as it takes fewer mislynches to get to the point where scum simply wins. If someone's scummy, you lynch them. Shouldn't have to be more complicated than that.

Normally, I would agree with you wholeheartedly. However, since we are in a nightless game, I'm more concerned with getting information near the beginning. Town has no power roles with which to gain information at night, but also does not have to be concerned about a night lynch. Therefore, I think it is the smarter play to get information when we can. As the days progress, it of course gets more and more important to lynch known scum.

[sekinj]

@light: it could also lead to a dead end, since scum don't necessarily play scummy. which is why I wanted info...

[sekinj]

@light: yes, I agree with that at this point in the game. My comments were in defense of my actions during the tajo/lowell lynches which was brought up by neko.

[sekinj]

Posting so I don't get replaced. More later.

You wouldn't have been replaced. Phate can't replace you! You're the only original left!!

I'm actually wondering if we should be taking replacementation into account... neko (who in my book is confirmed town) has been replaced just as much as cavebear, so maybe cavebear is town too. However, FL light and Az are down on the lower end, only being replaced once. I think Light has played pretty town, but I agree with cavebear that we have run out of scummy players to lynch, therefore we have to settle on a less-town player...

Therefore, I guess I still think the biggest piece of evidence is Sun trying to drag FL down... other than that the players left (except for neko) have played pretty townie.

Vote: FL

[sekinj]

*sigh* no, FL, you're the best case out there right now, imo. I don't know why farside's mind has changed.

[sekinj]

My list:
FL
Az
cavebear
light
farside

Town:
neko
sekinj

[sekinj]

so now Light and I are in the line of fire...

[sekinj]

@light: I was just saying that we each had two votes. you'll have to ask az and cavebear why they are voting you.

I could easily hammer myself, cave or light... however, FL and Az both precede all three of those players on my scum list...

Mod: can we get a current VC so we know exactly what we are doing?

[sekinj]

apparently no one else is willing to move their vote either?

I will consider this. I'm am currently looking back through at both players and their replacements.

[sekinj]

@far: I'm curious about your thoughts on neko? I know not everyone agrees with my reasoning for believing that he is town all the way, just wondering what you thought.

It is ironic, that yesterday you voted me, and FL said, "now this is something I can get behind" since she had been going against me since the day before.... Now today you moved your vote to Az, who was second on my list yesterday after FL. So... I just thought it was funny that I find myself feeling the same way as FL did yesterday in regards to your vote...

Now this is something that I can get behind.

vote: Az

[sekinj]

In this case I will have to stay true to my #1.

unvote, vote: fl

[sekinj]

King: neko

[sekinj]

so... what happens now? oh, I guess we are still waiting for neko...

[sekinj]

So... farside are we just waiting for your verdict? you said your vote was already on Az, were you still looking stuff over or are you ready for us to vote?

[sekinj]

Scum list:
FL
Az
Light
Farside
Neko
sekinj

Because of the king thing:

unvote, vote: Az

[sekinj]

@far: FYI, according to FL you need to say:

"Just lynch him, god damnit!"

[sekinj]

"Just lynch him, god damnit!"

There happy.

Just making sure FL had a reason to fall in line

[sekinj]

no, waiting for someone to have the balls to hammer

[sekinj]

I still think Fl is the scum. If it's going to take me dying first... well, I'd rather not..

[sekinj]

THis is terrible. FL is scum trying to wait it out. She is hoping people will get impatient and lynch me.

[sekinj]

vote: fl

[sekinj]

Hah. I'm being lynched tomorrow. Why do you have your panties in a bunch?

well, because I'm town, and I know you are scum. I'm glad you've finally said something that will convince others as well.

[sekinj]

Dang it. I now have a re-think quite a bit.

I still think neko is town because of ag’s earlier interjection.

However, far and light’s reaction to FL’s slip (and yes it really seemed like a slip) was interesting. Light was the one who caught it first and pointed it out. Far almost looks like she was trying to brush it over until Light pointed it out. I think maybe far wanted to try to continue with the easy lynch (like she is doing again today). So, I’m going to have to go with Far today. Before this she had been playing a pretty townie game, but I think she has actually fooled us all.

If she does get me lynched today, then I have to say she played an excellent game as scum and the win is very deserved (assuming she can also get light or neko lynched tomorrow).

vote: far

[sekinj]

Dang it. I now have a re-think quite a bit.

I still think neko is town because of ag’s earlier interjection.

However, far and light’s reaction to FL’s slip (and yes it really seemed like a slip) was interesting. Light was the one who caught it first and pointed it out. Far almost looks like she was trying to brush it over until Light pointed it out. I think maybe far wanted to try to continue with the easy lynch (like she is doing again today). So, I’m going to have to go with Far today. Before this she had been playing a pretty townie game, but I think she has actually fooled us all.

If she does get me lynched today, then I have to say she played an excellent game as scum and the win is very deserved (assuming she can also get light or neko lynched tomorrow).

vote: far

Are you kidding! Is that the best you can do being trapped in a cornor must really suck. Good game though.

again, nice try, but I'm not being fooled any more. hopefully neko and light will see the light as well.

[sekinj]

Dang it. I now have a re-think quite a bit.

I still think neko is town because of ag’s earlier interjection.

However, far and light’s reaction to FL’s slip (and yes it really seemed like a slip) was interesting. Light was the one who caught it first and pointed it out. Far almost looks like she was trying to brush it over until Light pointed it out. I think maybe far wanted to try to continue with the easy lynch (like she is doing again today). So, I’m going to have to go with Far today. Before this she had been playing a pretty townie game, but I think she has actually fooled us all.

If she does get me lynched today, then I have to say she played an excellent game as scum and the win is very deserved (assuming she can also get light or neko lynched tomorrow).

vote: far

Are you kidding! Is that the best you can do being trapped in a cornor must really suck. Good game though.

again, nice try, but I'm not being fooled any more. hopefully neko and light will see the light as well.

You want to explain why I would buss not one but three of my scum buddies?

Yeah, so you would have a free ride right now. ballsy, but if you win, it will be because of that.

[sekinj]

Neko with everything that has gone this game do you think I'm scum or do you think sek is trying to scrap by to win the game the only way she can by making me look bad?
Or are you scum letting her use that excuse to get rid of me. When I come up town you confused light enough and vote sek so you can win for the scum?

So now you are attacking neko? he is the only one I am 100% sure on. I think you are now floundering when your easy town lynch is being pulled out from under you.

[sekinj]

I would just rather end the game by lynching the scum today, rather than dragging it on for 2 more days... but if the town can win by lynching me, then okay... I'd just like to make it to endgame once in my life

@light - Neko is confirmed town because of something stupid that one of his predessors did. Here is how it went:

Aegor was playing that character, but asked for replacement because of a vacation. Gimbo (I think) replaced him. But then a few days later Gimbo needed replacement as well. By that time Aegor was back from his vacation and posted IN THREAD that he would be willing to replace back in to his original role,

OR ANY OTHER ROLE.

Now, the mod, of course, did not take him up on it. But, the point is, if Aegor was scum, he could not replace in as any role because he would already know who all the other scum are. That would be obvious to the mod, but only obvious to Aegor IF HE HAD BEEN SCUM. That little fact did not occur to Aegor because his previous role was town. Therefore, his posting proved that did not know who the scum were. If Aegor HAD known the scum, it would have been obvious to him that he could not replace into ANY role.

So after several other replacements, neko came along... and I know he is town because of Aegor's interjected when he was no longer part of the game.

[sekinj]

I know I'm town. I saw one joke comment made and didn't think about it. Now if you are truely town then can you actually find a case against light because you telling people to lynch me is one person down. Then you have light, yourself and neko and all you have is saying neko town therefore light scum with nothing to back it up.
I really expect better from you when you are town.

are you saying you want me to find a case against light right now? when I think you are the scum? well, that is a good point because I was wrong about FL... but it also just seems like you are desperate for me to look elsewhere...

[sekinj]

nice farside... try for the emotional appeal when nothing else is working.

[sekinj]

If you wanted to replace into your old role, but you knew you were town, you could "slip" by saying "or any role" which would indicate that your role was town aligned. So, the very fact that he said that is null...

yes, agree, you COULD. Aegor could have some elaborate plan to 'slip' and confirme himself as town. but it you look at it in context, that it not what it looks like at all. if he had meant to 'slip' he would have made it much more obvious, so that more than just 2 players would pick up on it. therefore, I'm still convinced that neko is town.

[sekinj]

Well, I know I'm town, so after FL flipped town, I didn't have any other option but to look at the other players that I previously thought were town. That is light and far.

I based my suspicion on far on her reaction to FL's perceived slip. I realize that is weak, but I really don't have anywhere else to look right now.

and if I am lynched today, maybe you guys will have somewhere to look tomorrow...

[sekinj]

So why attack farside over me?

not that it matters now, but I told you. because you caught what looked like a slip from FL while Far didn't catch it at first.

[sekinj]

thanks... I think...

[sekinj]

@neko: as far said i have already answered this. I'll quote it here. It's basically the next best option since I know I am town. it's very clever, but she could have been bussing everyone up to this point in order to get a free ride. See below for more of my reasoning:

Well, I know I'm town, so after FL flipped town, I didn't have any other option but to look at the other players that I previously thought were town. That is light and far.

I based my suspicion on far on her reaction to FL's perceived slip. I realize that is weak, but I really don't have anywhere else to look right now.

and if I am lynched today, maybe you guys will have somewhere to look tomorrow...

[sekinj]

bah... go town.

[sekinj]

lol ha! I just had to play one last trick on you guys.

Yeah, I knew I was screwed pretty early on. I was so amazed when I saw the wagon turn yesterday.

I was also amazed when people took my crap about you seriously. It was rather a joke and I didn't think anyone would take it seriously

Oh, and it WAS SO HARD to not hammer light when I had the chance!! I don't know, maybe I should have, but I cavebear and I were already on the suspect list, and I didn't think either of us could make it to the end if Light was hammered...

[sekinj]

Oh! and light: I took offense at this:

But farside doesn't seem childish enough to do anything it takes to win.

It is childish to do anything it takes to win??

[sekinj]

Oh.. the thing I want to know is... Why in the world did Sun make that comment about FL? I can't believe he

meant

ito confuse people because everything else he did was retarded.

and I'm still mad at Aegor for interjecting when he should have just PM'd the mod.

[sekinj]

Yay! now I feel better