Mini Normal 2137 | Polandball | Over

[Paragon]

Do you know what LyLo and OMGUS means, gibus?

What about NAI?

[Paragon]

Hey, eyestott! I reckon I'll repay the favour in this game if you catch my drift.

[Paragon]

VOTE: gibus L-1

Let's hear a claim. It's clear where this day is headed, so let's get the claim early.

[Paragon]

What were you then?

[Paragon]

Nice playing with you though! I've only known you for ~10 minutes, but I hope to play with you again sometime!

[Paragon]

VOTE: gibus. that's L-2. I want better explanation from gibus about why he killed QQ rather than just stating intent to hammer or letting QQ defend himself. As someone who was on that wagon, even I wasn't ready for a lynch there. pressure=/=reason or intent to lynch. thats just the way the game progresses. you have to push people for clues and information. shake the tree and see what falls out. you dont drop a bomb on the tree just in case theres a hornets nest.

what. the. fuck.

What do you think he'll flip?

Do you think this is really bad for us?

[Paragon]

Idk, it feels more like he's trolling us as scum right now actually.

[Paragon]

We're doing this huh. VOTE: gibus

This could easily be a scum buddy if gibus flips scum.

[Paragon]

Who do you think on the d1 wagon is scum dolly

QuantumQuasar (7) - DrippingGoofball, votato,

Dolly Parton

, Fwesnid,

Atarashi Hajimari,

Blurryface3189,

gibus

Probably in this order, scummiest at the top:

Blurry
DGB
Fwes
Vot

From this post alone, I'd argue it's Fwensnit>Blurryface>votato>DrippingGoofball.

Quentin is mislynch bait and scum don't want to be seen pushing that too early, but they'll be happy to hop on later if town push it.

[Paragon]

I want to see paragon do some things today because that slot is a steaming pile of null

Nice! Being null is the best, it means you stay in the game for the max amount of time possible.

[Paragon]

Hey paragon Pete had a question for you

Will I come across it as I ascend from post whatever that last was that I quoted?

[Paragon]

Paragon, where did you go last night?

Oh, interesting. I went nowhere.

[Paragon]

Paragon, where did you go last night?

Oh, interesting. I went nowhere.

Hey, eyestott! I reckon I'll repay the favour in this game if you catch my drift.

In 2125 eyestott did you a solid with a clear. I read this as saying that you should have two clears. We're in a position where we need them. So I'm either sheeping you today or voting you.

Lul, good job spotting that.

My intention with that entirely was to soft an investigative PR with that post, hope scum!eyestott or other scum catch on, and then nightkill me (a meh slot). So much for that though.

[Paragon]

It probably means you're town unless you're scum who roleblocked me and gambited into making me claim today, but that's unlikely.

[Paragon]

Just paraphrasing for myself and others (please correct if wrong)

Pete is calling out a soft claim from paragon referencing another game that ended with eyeatott

Paragon is saying it was a bait

Yep.

[Paragon]

how would it help town if you were killed? who do you think it would have pointed to?

Because if it wasn't already obvious, I'm not a strong PR, and better I die over one. Also, I was in a lot of people's PoE as far as I could tell, so it's an in-optimal nightkill for scum.

[Paragon]

Talk to me about your reads paragon. I’ll talk about pretty much anyone

Since replacing in, I have gut townreads on you and Dolly. Pete is probably town for noticing that and not nightkilling me.

Nothing else. I might reread later.

[Paragon]

Well scum could lolhammer knowing the last person was town and being (rightly) that we wouldn't go after the second lolhammer. To you the lolhammer seems to give townpoints

That's why the speed in which gibus was lynched makes it hard to say Blurry is scum because of the lolhammer. Hell, if I was scum I would seriously consider a lolhammer too. But its all WIFOM.

Blurry also put QQ to L-1.

I've complied all of Blurry's vote posts (which is 36% of his ISO lol)

Spoiler:

VOTE: QuantumQuasar, as said

I'd propose a counter-wagon.

VOTE: gibus

The other wagon would run over an innocent man.

Don't associate me with him, smh.

I only voted on him because he switched his vote off of Dolly to vote on me.

As for why I initially voted on QuantumQuasar, it was because he accused me first so early in the game at a point where i haven't spoken much; regardless, my vote on him was half-hearted, which was why i only pointed a finger at him in a message and didnt do the vote in a later message until people asked me why I didn't. I do not think he is scum, nor do I want to actually vote on someone who could be innocent.

Moreover, gibus too was randomly taking potshots at Dolly in the beginning. Atleast Quantum had a shred of reasoning for voting on me, while gibus didn't for Dolly. And re-emphasizing my vote, VOTE: gibus.

I guess the gibus train went nowhere. And QQ has basically done nothing so far but manage a scumlist, so I guess I can join this.

VOTE: QuantumQuasar

We're doing this huh. VOTE: gibus

None of this says that Blurry scum but also I can't find anything that points to Blurry being town.

VOTE: blurry

But I agree with NotSci that we shouldn't rush this wagon but we need blurry to come back.

Does this mean a nullread based on content is your best scumread? Is there nothing that points to anyone else being scum?

[Paragon]

What do you like about dolly?

The emotion if I'm being honest. It's a pretty shallow read.

[Paragon]

so you interpret pete as asking you to out your result?

Pete is probably town now but it depends on ~things~. No point discussing them now.

[Paragon]

Actually, it's pretty obvious you're tracker at this point, Pete. Scum will know for a fact if they're not oblivious, so out with your claim. I have more thoughts to give after you claim.

[Paragon]

Aloratom and Pete are the same person???

[Paragon]

Actually, it's pretty obvious you're tracker at this point, Pete. Scum will know for a fact if they're not oblivious, so out with your claim. I have more thoughts to give after you claim.

You softed a PR that you didn't think anyone would pick up on. When called on it, you thought I might be running a gambit to get you to claim. Now you want me to claim.

I catch your drift

Did you miss this? I think you did and that you may be scum.

VOTE: Paragon

I softed with the intention eyestott would pick up on it, for reasons you're fully aware of! The plan was to get nightkilled if eyestott was scum basically.

Also yeah, I did miss that post from you.

[Paragon]

Alore, you've heavily implied you're a tracker that saw me go nowhere last night, which is why you're now suspicious of my (bait) PR soft. I don't see why there's any reason not to claim at this point.

[Paragon]

yeah but paragon, the soft wasnt very subtle. why did you think eyesnott would pick up on it in particular?

It's pretty subtle to anyone not in that game. If eyestott is scum, he probably assumes I town!me trusts him, and his confiding him with this info. So then he hopefully believes and nightkills me. In theory, me being alive today makes eyestott look better too.

[Paragon]

yeah but paragon, the soft wasnt very subtle. why did you think eyesnott would pick up on it in particular?

It's pretty subtle to anyone not in that game. As far as I believed, eyestott was the only one. If eyestott is scum, he probably assumes town!me trusts him, which is why I'm confiding in him with this info. So the hope is then that he nightkills me. In theory, me being alive today makes eyestott look better too.

Rewritten.

[Paragon]

Anyone played with both scum and town aloratn or however it’s fucking spelled?

Bc at first skim glance at a few games the low effort looked more like scum but I’m not super sure either way

Yep. I think I'm pretty good at reading him actually. I'm 3/3 on him. 2 times he was scum, once he was town.

[Paragon]

Definitely the former. You've seen me pull this kind of stuff plenty of times as town before, Alore (the post restriction). Soft-claiming to eyestott like that early probably makes him a little paranoid of me rather than pocketed (if he's town). If he's scum, he has a lot less reason to believe it's a lie though, and is more likely to night kill me.

[Paragon]

i dont see any upside for town!paragon to run this gambit.

Getting nightkilled as a VT and kinda overall scumleaned slot?

You guys are silly.

[Paragon]

Oh, I just had a look at the VCs and nightkills, and votato was both Drew-Sta and Atarashi's biggest scumread for most of the game.

A LOT points towards votato being scum:

VOTE: votato

[Paragon]

votato's also been on both mislynches:

QuantumQuasar (7) - DrippingGoofball, votato, Dolly Parton, Fwesnid, Atarashi Hajimari, Blurryface3189, gibus --LYNCH--

gibus (6) - DrippingGoofball, Dolly Parton, Pickaxe Pete, votato, Paragon, Blurryface3189 <--LYNCH

Atarashi scumreading votato, a lot.

Drew-Sta scumreading votato, a lot.

I know night kill analysis is often ignored on this site, but this is some of the more obvious signs I've seen. There's no indication that either Drew-Sta or Atarashi were PRs. Atarashi infact only posted like 4 times on Day 2, and still got nightkilled Night 2. Scum doesn't nightkill both of them if votato is town when Atarashi and Drew would otherwise push a mislynch through on him at some point.

Let's lynch scum please!

[Paragon]

how would it help town if you were killed? who do you think it would have pointed to?

so you interpret pete as asking you to out your result?

yeah but paragon, the soft wasnt very subtle. why did you think eyesnott would pick up on it in particular?

i dont see any upside for town!paragon to run this gambit. I also don't see any motivation for scum!paragon to do it.

This is fence-sitting on the Paragon-soft situation, and being afraid to take a stance on the potential mislynch of the day. You could quite easily see both town and scum motivations for my actions - and multiple people including myself and Alore had just explained said reasons/motivations, so that last post is especially scummy.

[Paragon]

You asked me a lot of questions, and the conclusion you drew from my answers was a very neutral/safe one.

What do you think of the motivations Pete and I proposed, specifically? If you disagree with them and don't think they're valid, explain why please.

I threw in the "votato was on both mislynches" thing because it points slightly more towards you being scum. 90% of my case is for the nightkills fwiw. I missed the post where Atarashi unvoted you and said they were reconsidering, I'll have a closer look at that when I have some time later.

[Paragon]

Why do you suddenly sound so towny

[Paragon]

Well, you'll be in LyLo tomorrow. Good luck to you all.

[Paragon]

I'm not leaving, just pointing out you'll be in LyLo if you lynch me!

[Paragon]

"Good luck to you all."
that sounds like youre giving up. i have metareasons from an ongoing game that suggest this lines up with scum!paragon

[Paragon]

Every time you walk down some stairs, you may trip and badly injure yourself.

[Paragon]

Anyway, I'm unsure if votato is scum anymore so I am lost.

[Paragon]

Think about the assumption you're making, votato.

[Paragon]

No...

Sigh, never mind. We should terminate this discussion.

[Paragon]

Really? How did you interpret it?

[Paragon]

Ohh, I think I might get how actually.

Anyways, discussion terminated.

[Paragon]

notty, I'm questioning everything. In my eyes, Para and Pete come out of this play looking town, Pete much more than Paragon.
My reads are still at like, a d1 state, because of how this game has played out. I have a gut feeling that the team is Blurry/votato/DGB, but this isn't substantiated by any proof, so please take it with a grain of salt.

i think i agree with at least two of those three. I'm ok with inquiring there.

What do you mean "at least" 2 of those 3? 1 of them is you.

[Paragon]

I still exist. I basically have no time and I'm kind of lost this game. No longer confident on votato!scum, but I have no idea where else to go.

[Paragon]

I don't agree with Klick!scum for declaring him predecessor newbtown. I think that's just as likely to come from town as it is scum. If he's town and is sincerely of that belief, he's still going to say it.

[Paragon]

shrug

, I don't mind too much either. I won't have a lot of time to commit to this for a while anyway.

I know, this is kinda contradicts what I was saying earlier though about you guys being in Lylo if you lynch me. Best bet for me is still votato.

[Paragon]

I'm VT.

[Paragon]

notscience feels like he's fencesitting a little too much btw, like he's open to lynching several slots, but hasn't taken a hard stance on any of the main contenders yet. Just a thought, so don't townlock him in the Lylos.

[Paragon]

I like your avatar, Fwesnid.

[Paragon]

I like Klick.

votato, why can't scum have a 1 or 2 shot roleblocker to account for most town PRs being 1-shot, and why are you assuming the scum roles will "probably not be 1-shot"?

[Paragon]

UNVOTE: Paragon

why?

Doesn't appear there's will to lynch there. No reason for me to be on a vanity wagon at this point.

I don't get this, Alore. What's wrong with having your vote there anyway if you still scumread me? No harm in having it there rather than nowhere.

[Paragon]

Fwesnid

- Watcher

votato

- 1-shot Roleblocker

Paragon

- VT

Pete

- VT

Klick

- VT

Could someone complete this chart of claims for me please? I'm completely lost with regards to the others.

[Paragon]

QuantumQuasar

- Town Jailkeeper.

Drew-Sta

- Town 1-Shot Voyeur.

gibus

- VT

Atarashi Hajimari

- VT

Fwesnid

- Watcher

votato

- 1-shot Roleblocker

Paragon

- VT

Pete

- VT

Klick

- VT

[Paragon]

QuantumQuasar

- Town Jailkeeper.

Drew-Sta

- Town 1-Shot Voyeur.

gibus

- VT

Atarashi Hajimari

- VT

Fwesnid

- Watcher

votato

- 1-shot Roleblocker

Paragon

- VT

Pete

- VT

Klick

- VT

eyestott - 1X BP 1X Watcher
notsci 1X weak follower
drippinggoofball 1X voyeur
Dolly BP or 1X BP -- not sure which

Thanks! Could you address 925?

[Paragon]

Cool. I want to lynch the roleblocker claim, and votato's the only person I've had scummy vibes from thus far.

[Paragon]

Eh, maybe. You think that can't be faked?

[Paragon]

I didn’t really “crumb” this game, even though I’ve done so in the other games I’ve been in that are now finished

Any reason you decided not to crumb this time around?

[Paragon]

Hey, Dolly! I just metaed you and I've never seen you get so mad in any of your town games. What's got you so worked up in this one? You've been mislynched on occasion before and you were relatively chill even at the end.

[Paragon]

Also, I've played with you before and I enjoyed the tier lists you did where you ranked people by number of posts you liked/disliked. I was disappointed you've since stopped doing that.

[Paragon]

You saying I want to quicklynch was putting words in my mouth I’m very adamantly for using the whole day and have been since I started playing

vote dolly

If you are town you better not lolhammer. I’m looking at you blurry. I want a day to discuss things.

YOU SAID YOU WANT ME TO NOT LOLHAMMER. YET YOU THINK I AM SCUM SO THAT MEANS YOU EXPOECT ME TO LOLHAMMER. SCUM!ME CAN ONLY LOLHAMMER IF A QUICK WAGON APPEARS!!! AND THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE CHAMPIONING!

Hard to believe that Dolly is also 1-shot bulletproof?

What do you mean by that? Do we even already have everyone's claim? Guaranteed there are 3 claims that are BS because we have

3 SCUM

!!!

I wish

some

people would think a little more deeper and not just surface level.

Her style of asking questions she doesn't follow up on kinda bugs.

MAYBE BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU JUST IGNORE THEM!

You're not mad? Is this faked then?

[Paragon]

Dolly is looking worse and worse. Would scum really just blindly OMGUS like that and stubbornly refuse to cooperate?

Dolly, do you really believe you've caught Klick and that he meant the alignment-related "clear"?

[Paragon]

Dolly, do you really believe you've caught Klick and that he meant the alignment-related "clear"?

?

[Paragon]

VOTE: Dolly Parton

I don't believe you.

[Paragon]

An answer that vague is only going to keep my vote on you all day. You're going to be clear, or you're going to be lynched.

An answer that vague is only going to keep my vote on you all day. You're going to be clear, or you're going to be lynched.

No one can be "cleared". So your ultimatum is flawed. P.S. you took the bait.

VOTE: Klick

'clear' as in 'lucid' or 'not cryptic'.

Are you backtracking now that I caught you?

Why is it so hard to believe he didn't mean the meaning above? It makes perfect sense to the rest of us.

[Paragon]

UNVOTE: Dolly Parton for now

[Paragon]

I think Dolly's misunderstanding is probably genuine and NAI.

[Paragon]

Wait, we have a confirmed scum between you two? This is fun.

[Paragon]

Dolly, why'd you claim 1-shot BP and what's your real role? Why weren't you voting/claiming a guilty on Klick from the moment they claimed VT?

[Paragon]

So... you actually are just a 1-shot BP, Dolly?

[Paragon]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Paragon]

Honestly, I expect this to flip town. That play is suicidal for scum!Dolly, and feels more like town!Dolly doing stuff out of spite.

[Paragon]

T_T

[Paragon]

I'll help

[Paragon]

Agreed. How is it that you roll scum almost every game, Alore? I guess it's an efficient way if improving at it, but I wonder if you're starting to feel sick of it. That said, the only time I played with town!you, you replaced out... so maybe you do just really enjoy it.

[Paragon]

Dolly, what is your role, and are you claiming to have a clear on eyestott?

In addition to a guilty on Klick?

This is some of the most blatant anti-town bunkum I've seen.

can someone summarize the dolly case? is it mostly the claim shenanigans?

If Alore decided to bus Dolly, this comment from votato!scum is a little odd. If we look at the precious VC and general reads of people, it was looking likely that one of [Dolly, Alore, votato] would be lynched, but if that was the case and Dolly decided to self-implode, then why didn't votato also hop on for some towncred? Maybe they were uncoordinated and Dolly was actually just playing badly, Alore saw the writing on the wall, but votato didn't.

[Paragon]

VC 3.3

Dolly Parton (2) -

notscience, Klick

votato (1) -

Paragon

Pickaxe Pete (1) -

votato

DrippingGoofball (1) -

Dolly Parton

Not Voting (4) -

DrippingGoofball, eyestott, Fwesnid, Pickaxe Pete

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to hammer.
Day 3 ends in

(expired on 2020-05-23 06:04:44)

Game Notes

-

- Fixed all VC mistakes AFAIK.

[Paragon]

Agreed. How is it that you roll scum almost every game, Alore? I guess it's an efficient way if improving at it, but I wonder if you're starting to feel sick of it. That said, the only time I played with town!you, you replaced out... so maybe you do just really enjoy it.

Surely that's it.

Be honest :p

Outside of this game, what alignment do you generally prefer?

[Paragon]

VC 1.4

QuantumQuasar (3) -

DrippingGoofball, votato, Dolly Parton

gibus (2) -

Blurryface3189, Atarashi Hajimari

Blurryface3189 (2) -

QuantumQuasar, Pickaxe Pete

DrippingGoofball (2) -

Red Panda, MisaTange

votato (1) -

Drew-Sta, gibus

eyestott (1) -

eyestott

Drew-Sta (1) -

Fwesnid

Not Voting (0) -

With

13

alive, it takes

7

to hammer.
Day 1 ends in

(expired on 2020-05-11 01:08:44)

Game Notes

- Replacing MisaTange and Red Panda (per request)
- I'm sorry for being really hectic the past few days, RL has not been kind to me.

When I deserve my pagetop yes.

Gibus, what about QQ?

Nah, he doesn't look like he F5s at all

Is that reluctance to vote QQ I smell?

What's it going to take for you to blindly follow me gibus?

I'm trying to stop this game from becoming a snooze fest. Something needs to happen

Follow you to where?

I've always wanted to watch that movie, Matt Damon ftw

Good. now vote QQ or Blurry so we can move on.

Dolly hard convinces gibus to move off of votato and onto one of two people we know are town.

votato votato votato...

[Paragon]

(That VC has an error; votato is on 2 votes)

[Paragon]

VOTE: gibus L-1

Let's hear a claim. It's clear where this day is headed, so let's get the claim early.

I'm vanilla townie

We're doing this huh. VOTE: gibus

Blurry hammers gibus here.

what. the. fuck.

votato was scumreading gibus. This reaction seems overblown. gibus claimed VT, so it's not like a PR was hammered.

It was nice playing with you all. Goodbye

Yay, #420 post for me

But first..

Let me get my final pagetop

i mean, based on reaction, at this point i believe the claim.

nice playing with you gibus. sorry it happened like this.

i think its pretty bad for town to have 2 lolhammers, yeah. its hard to to VCA in a normal situation, but here its gonna be a nightmare. Also, with no progression or time for people to post and make themselves scummy, its gonna be harder to develop reads. at this point my reads are largely still based on the time immediately after RVS. Theres been very little content since then.

There's nothing in gibus' reaction above to suggest he was town. All he said was "nice playing with you" and grabbed a pagetop. If anything, that felt kinda scum-indicative to me. So, votato flipping on his scumread to expecting this to flip town from those 4 gibus posts? Highly doubt it.

[Paragon]

Since we're not in lylo town should lynch me today to prove fwesnid. We should work on finding the partner.

UNVOTE:

There's no way I should not be the lynch today unless it's fwesnid. I right now claim that I will self-hammer unless directed otherwise. So anyone who hammers me prior to that decision being made will necessarily be the third scum.

Until then, we're going to talk about either who my partner is or who fwesnid's partner is.

Hey, Alore. Why have you completely resigned yourself to getting lynched before fwesnid? Do you really think you have no chance of convincing us?

[Paragon]

That's an odd take. Most of the replacements have been super net positive for this game's mojo.

Surely you mean all.

...right?

[Paragon]

Agreed on votato always being scum. Only thing I'm town about right now is why scum wouldn't directly kill Fwensid, give he was widely townread, and there's no claimed protective/other watcher that could watch him. Unless eyestott claims to have not used his watch yet?

[Paragon]

*i'm torn about

[Paragon]

I’m a 1-shot watcher. I didn’t use it because I had no idea who the mafia would target with their night kill.
And hey, I’m 1-shot bulletproof too.
I didn’t really “crumb” this game, even though I’ve done so in the other games I’ve been in that are now finished
Other than me saying that the mod didn’t respond to my pms at the start of the game. I was asking him if
A) I can use my watcher ability to target myself
B) I’ll be informed if I lose my bulletproof ability
Dolly and Fwesnid should be able to confirm the answers to each of these are no.

Ah, OK, he claimed to still have his shot here.

[Paragon]

Confirmed:
QuantumQuasar - Town Jailkeeper.
Drew-Sta - Town 1-Shot Voyeur.
gibus - VT
Atarashi Hajimari - VT
notsci 1X weak follower
Dolly Parton Mafia Goon

claimed:
Fwesnid - Watcher
votato - 1-shot Roleblocker
Paragon - VT
Pete - VT
Klick - VT
eyestott - 1X BP 1X Watcher
drippinggoofball 1X voyeur

I'm not a setup guy so I don't know what makes sense and what doesn't. I don't know why there would be both a full-time watcher and a 1X watcher. Did fwesnid claim before eyestott?

This is a lot of power for town if I'm being honest.

Watcher + Voyeur + Jailkeeper all undated
1-shot Weak Follower + 1-shot BP/Watcher + 1-shot Voyeur

That does seem like too much.

[Paragon]

*ungated

[Paragon]

We need to hear from eyestott or his replacement.

[Paragon]

As Kaag said, I'll reread everything you said if you flip town, Alore.

I'm ready to end this day and the watchers should be following Klick's night plan that they outlined above.

[Paragon]

Alore, you mentioned a townread scum faking a guilty on a suspected town slot is a good/clever move. I see it as the opposite, it was very possible for Fwensid!scum to get you mislynched today without incriminating himself for the next day. Do you disagree?

[Paragon]

I dont have my rb shot no

On you.

I used my rb in hopes of stopping the NK.

The way votato is dancing around the issue of why he targeted Klick specifically and why Klick was his biggest scumread is obvscummy.

[Paragon]

shrug

Let's hear from votato first before he has another 2 days to think of how to respond.

[Paragon]

Alright, let's do it.

VOTE: Pickaxe Pete Sleep well, Alore.

Your "idea" and reason for not wanting to explain today better be some kind of eye opening miracle, votato.

[Paragon]

My heart literally skipped a beat when I saw that flip.
I'm sorry for jobbing the game.

What happened was during the night I had asked the mod a question, related to Pete, and I mistook that response as my watcher result completely ignoring my paragon result.

VOTE: Paragon
(I watched goofball last night, and again my result was paragon.)
By the paragon/votato interaction, votato should be town. I'm guessing klick as other town since she didn't voted me immediately.

This can still be saved.

This is hilarious

I love what you're trying to do here.

[Paragon]

votato, are you ready to explain why you roleblocked Klick, and what your idea from yesterday was?

[Paragon]

Why did you think you were a good kill for scum, votato? Weren't you working on the basis Goofball was confirmed, and Fwensid was likely town and a high priority - being a watcher?

Also, I just realised I haven't apologised to Alore yet. Sorry for not having more faith in you, I just didn't understand why someone who's townread would fake a guilty on someone who's not. But maybe it's because he thought he could get away with this mod communication thing he's entered today with. You will be avenged.

[Paragon]

I'm actually really busy for the next 12 days which is a slight problem. Do you guys mind if we drag the deadline out? Or will there be enough time on the next day? I can't remember what the deadlines are.

[Paragon]

Maybe someone has an ability to make the night open.

[Paragon]

Oh dear. The thread was renamed to "day 5" from "day 4" from last I checked, but we still haven't gone into night? Not that I'm complaining lol, means I might have some time to look at this while not busy.

[Paragon]

It's a moot point now, yeah. It's a solid theory argument that I'd strongly defend if it were still relevant to this game.

It should be obvious which way I'm leaning, but I'm not certain I'm right. I'll reread soon.

Agreed lol, I was ready to start arguing for No-lynch before I saw it was a 1v1.

[Paragon]

I'm like at 80% votato.

im here but my next post is gonna require a lot of effort, and im not sure whether effort is worthwhile atm.

It doesn't have to require a lot of effort if you're town. The question is not a hard one.

the answer is a long one.

tl;dr: i think based on claims i have some idea about who scum is. i didnt learn much from the reaction test, no.

Think it might be worth explaining now, votato?

[Paragon]

The only thing that pinged me about KAAG yesterday is that he made a massive show of saying Fwensid was scum and that no one should argue this whatsoever. Like, he was eager to show that he wasn't considering any other scenario, possibly for some juicy towncred.

[Paragon]

that claim from KAAG is a bit odd. why wait to claim his result if he had no result? also, he claimed BP. there was one other BP claim in this game, who from? scum.

Why is that a point for KAAG being scum? You think two scum are likely to claim BP like that together? Also, he would wait to claim before you so that he can potentially catch you out if you claimed to have roleblocked me for whatever reason. Or roleblocked him infact.

1343 would be great to address btw. I'm guessing that's what your effort post will tackle.

[Paragon]

The same thing had me pause. There are little crumbs of things in both KAAG's and eyestott's play that I could see from a scum PoV, but the main difference is that I can also see them coming from town. Whereas a lot of votato stuff is just a head-scratcher if he's town.

We should probably look at the NKs more closely again. I thought there was a strong case for votato being scum from them earlier, but we should definitely look into how KAAG/eyestott were being read by the kills too.

[Paragon]

I've played with votato quite a lot recently actually (I'm Hoctac, votato), and his scumplay varies. There's a game I can't talk about, but the one that's finished, he was aggressive and wasn't afraid to push mislynches.

[Paragon]

Reading into the KAAG/eyestott slot is difficult due to the lack of content until D4. I tried for a bit overnight but didn't really get anywhere.
One of the things that stands out about the slot is that it claimed 1xBP and 1xWatcher after both Dolly and Fwesnid individually fakeclaimed. This post by eyestott is odd:

I’m a 1-shot watcher. I didn’t use it because I had no idea who the mafia would target with their night kill.
And hey, I’m 1-shot bulletproof too.
I didn’t really “crumb” this game, even though I’ve done so in the other games I’ve been in that are now finished
Other than me saying that the mod didn’t respond to my pms at the start of the game. I was asking him if
A) I can use my watcher ability to target myself
B) I’ll be informed if I lose my bulletproof ability

Dolly and Fwesnid should be able to confirm the answers to each of these are no.

In context, I'm wondering if he was trying to individually add credit to both of their claims. Otherwise, how do they wind up fake-claiming both individual parts of eyestott's role?

Hmm, does scum!eyestott just lump in both scum buddies like that?

[Paragon]

Lastly, I'm not really sure why Fwesnid would make the Watcher fake guilty play to set up votato for endgame. With votato as a partner, that play looks game-losing. With KAAG as a partner it makes marginally more sense - that slot has had little attention on it all game.
Also worth noting that I think DGB would be far more likely to still be alive if votato were scum. I was convinced before Pete died that 3p LyLo would wind up being me/DGB/votato.

That's a good point. Why does Fwensid claim that guilty? Maybe because he's a goon so would eventually be caught out by continuously "missing" the kills and not dying for whatever reason?

[Paragon]

VOTE: Fwesnid

I was convinced you were town, so well played.

Pretty sure I know who your partner is now though

, so I'm hopeful your ploy will backfire.

Let's see if they have the cajones to try something today.

Who were you referring to here?

[Paragon]

We're doing this huh. VOTE: gibus

It was nice playing with you all. Goodbye

Yay, #420 post for me

But first..

Let me get my final pagetop

i mean, based on reaction, at this point i believe the claim.

nice playing with you gibus. sorry it happened like this.

i think its pretty bad for town to have 2 lolhammers, yeah. its hard to to VCA in a normal situation, but here its gonna be a nightmare. Also, with no progression or time for people to post and make themselves scummy, its gonna be harder to develop reads. at this point my reads are largely still based on the time immediately after RVS. Theres been very little content since then.

Oh yeah, did you ever explain this, votato?

How did you go from scumreading Gibus to believing his claim because of that reaction he had to being hammered? It looked completely NAI to me, if not slightly scum-indicative.

[Paragon]

Atarashi townread eyestott. Scumread votato.
Drew-Sta never mentioned eyestott. Scumread votato
notscience didn't like either. HOWEVER, he did say this:

We know because of dgb that scum have a roleblocker.

I would wager scum has a strongman and I don’t think that eyestott and dolly are scum together. Scums fakeclaims are probably spread out amongst them all. So two didn’t claim the same thing unless it was VT.

I didn’t notice a ton of dupes but he typically had one weird role per alignment which kinda makes me want to lynch in eyestott/votato/dolly/fwes. A part of me says eyestott is opposite of whatever dolly and fwes are.

Goofball townread eyestott, and was thinking votato was town EoD yesterday.

NKs point towards votato here, but I guess they naturally are because votato has just been under more suspicion than eyestott this game.

[Paragon]

I've played with votato quite a lot recently actually (I'm Hoctac, votato), and his scumplay varies. There's a game I can't talk about, but the one that's finished, he was aggressive and wasn't afraid to push mislynches.

oh hey! well in that case you can speak to my meta pretty well. Low-motivation town!me, which didnt come out as much in my completed town games, since i was very new and bright-eyed.

Maybe, maybe. Hopefully your answers to our other questions and write-up tomorrow should be enlightening!

[Paragon]

I'm Hoctac

Neat! I was pressed by your play in the Neighbor game.

For a second I thought you were talking about me getting pocketed by Morning, but the other neighbour game makes more sense...

[Paragon]

Ordered readlist is this right now.
Atarashi
notsci
Goofball
Dolly
eyestott
Paragon
Blurry
Pete
Votato

Also I'm not a fan of eye's vagueness, if they're voyeur they should not be hiding it as town, and if they're anything else they are useful for possible coordination.

I don't see why eye can't just claim?

Eyes/dolly/para/klick
Should have all scum maybe ?

UNVOTE: paragon
I am able to understand paragontown better and I don't think hanging him today makes sense.
I'm tempted to swing over to eyestott.
Eyes has been sketchy most of the game and I agree their claim doesn't fit.

Fwesnid looked like he was angling for a eyestott vote in these posts. I also don't understand how votato went from his bottom scumread to no longer being suspected.

[Paragon]

that claim from KAAG is a bit odd. why wait to claim his result if he had no result? also, he claimed BP. there was one other BP claim in this game, who from? scum.

Why is that a point for KAAG being scum? You think two scum are likely to claim BP like that together? Also, he would wait to claim before you so that he can potentially catch you out if you claimed to have roleblocked me for whatever reason. Or roleblocked him infact.

1343 would be great to address btw. I'm guessing that's what your effort post will tackle.

Could you address this stuff, votato?

Also, the stuff in 1343. What are the thoughts/points you thought would be needed for this "effort post"? I don't get it.

[Paragon]

The weird thing about eyestott's claim is that it happens to fit in with the other scum's fakeclaims, and he claimed last, but it's possible they rolecopped him night 1 and knew his role?

[Paragon]

Fwiw Paragon I don't think I'll need this to drag on. Maybe another 2-3 days, but beyond that I don't feel like I'll get much worthwhile out of overanalysing. But if you want to take extra time to feel confident and then we compare thoughts, that's fine.

Mm, it's probably just looking like a votato vote. Let's see if votates can perfectly explain my issues in 1382.

Yeah, if eyestott is scum, he knows it looks real bad for him if Fwensid/Dolly both die before him and suddenly he has this convenient role that coincidentally combined two fakeclaims and was claimed after them. It's a strange route to pick as scum.

On the other hand if he's town, it's possible the scum just rolecopped him and then decided to base fakeclaims around his role. Might make their roles "fit" more setup-wise, and has the bonus effect of making eyestott look bad after they flip.

[Paragon]

Tempted, but I'll wait.

[Paragon]

These sorts of things shouldn't require a long explanation that can be fabricated with a large amount of time. If you're town, you had a thought process, and it doesn't take long to give it.

VOTE: votato

^This though

I just don't get what this "effort post" will show, it's why I want to see it so much.

KAAG, you shouldn't stop posting just because it looks like we're lynching votato.

[Paragon]

Hmm, the seeds of doubt have been very much been planted. Looking forward to your version on KAAG.

Tonally speaking, votato is a lot more towny than KAAG. Content and action-wise (before these last few posts)... it's a different story.

[Paragon]

I'd do some VCA if I had more time. We could steal Goofball's VCs actually and recolour them.

[Paragon]

I need to bring back THE COUNCIL

I know Alore would have some fantastic advice for me.

[Paragon]

Let me know what you think of those last few posts from votato, Klicky.

[Paragon]

Preferably, I'd like to spend a good amount of time on this on the 12th/13th when my schedule will open up, and make a decision then. Sorry, I know people hate when lylos drag on for too long and it can get a little exhausting. I haven't caught up on everything yet.

[Paragon]

1420: Why is that vote switch opportunistic, KAAG? He moved from town to town. Quentin wasn't scumreading him.

[Paragon]

haha if i'd known you were hoctac in 938 id have killed you n1 probably.

Why?

[Paragon]

When we pressured votato to post his case or otherwise do shit, he... proceeded to not do shit. He didn't scramble to do shit and try to save face. And when Fwesnid was faking a guilty and was caught scum on D5, votato decides to claim he still has his roleblock. Ignoring whether that's a valid town play... Is it a valid

scum

play? Because it both looks awful and forces him to pretend to have a night action.

Honestly, he felt very much like defeated scum. He wasn't bothering to defend himself and seemed done with the game. I think town would've said

something

rather than lurk it out and ignore questions for 48 hours during twilight.

[Paragon]

tl;dr: i think based on claims i have some idea about who scum is. i didnt learn much from the reaction test, no.

What exactly did you mean here by "based on claims"? Did you already address that?

[Paragon]

Who did you use it on last night, then?

Why did you use it last night?

I think it's Pickaxe/votato.

Is it weird that I think this is towny though? If votato is scum, he's gonna formulate a fakeclaim of who he roleblocked and why in his head. He's gonna have the reasons ready and isn't just gonna make it up as he goes along. Klick asks him who he roleblocked and it takes him 10min to reply. Klick asks him why, and he completely disappears. That's actually completely illogical from a scum perspective.

While as town, I can see the cogs turning in his head there as he comes up with this dumb fakeclaim because he wants to survive with his shot going into LyLo, and he's not as worried about explaining himself to the follow-up question, and disappears as a result.

You get what I mean, Klicks?

[Paragon]

I dont have my rb shot no

Who did you use it on last night, then?

On you.

Why did you use it last night?

I think it's Pickaxe/votato.

Uhh, I meant to quote all of these. I wasn't just trying to call the IC's posts towny lol

[Paragon]

KAAG: Did you go back and reread all of Pete's posts?

[Paragon]

True. Strangely, I'm leaning KAAG now. The VCA is pretty useless btw. Guess that happens when there's few VCs and no scumwagons to look at. Should go back to see what happened with any pushes on votato on day 1, when Atarashi and Drew both scumread him.

[Paragon]

How his buddies reacted to those pushes I mean.

[Paragon]

speaking of, it would be great if we could get people together and hold a quorum before deadline...

We really cant afford to fall victim to confirmatioj bias here. I ask that the ICs take some time to review at least my own and eyestott/kaags isos. Maybe the other scum too. At this point i think ive done my job here. I found scum and ive explained how i caught scum. If you decide to lynch me, so be it, but dont blame me when i flip town

i mean i agree that its really frustrating that we arent getting anything to work with from the people who have to make a decision. but at the same time, they need to carefully consider. it would be way more frustrating if they let you win just because they went with a scumread that came largely from me procrastinating and being disengaged. this isnt my scum meta. I now have two completed scumgames I can link. One was my very first scumgame, and I was kinda lost and then my entire team hardbussed me. In the second i was far more confident and led the town around by being very active. those two games are animals upick and micro 938: butterfly mafia. lately ive been getting a bit bored by towngames, so i've been far less active. if you really honestly think im scum, please come ask me questions and find out. its really frustrating to sit here helplessly while the clock winds down on us and apathy looks like its going to let us slowly drift to a scum win. engage with me!

I don't like the tone of these votato posts actually.

KAAG, I keep changing my mind, I looked back earlier and remembered how Fwensid was shading and angling for an eyestott lynch the other day. I agree with Klicks that it's hard to tell who's scum/town if both players are active during lylo. If one doesn't have the heart for it, it's usually scum-indicative though.

[Paragon]

At this point there is nothing other than gut and other subjective reads. Until we get a flip, slip, claim etc, all cases are wishy-washy. Doesn't mean everyone is wrong though.

I usually also start games trying to town read people. If I latch on too tightly to a scum read in early game, I risk getting all locked up in confbias.

This was Dolly's response to Atarashi and votato's 1v1. A very safe take.

[Paragon]

Dolly or Fwensid also don't comment at all on Drew's case on votato, or any of the followups.

[Paragon]

Hey all, so sorry for my inactivity. My dad has something called ‘cerebral thinning’ in his frontal lobe or something which may be why he’s been showing symptoms of aphasia semi-recently. I’ve been inactive on the site as a whole for the past few days, so please don’t view this as strategic lurking.

I’ll be spending some time on this game tomorrow when I wake up. If you have anything you specifically want me to address, please fire away.

@mod: please respond to my PM!

I think the "please respond to my PM" here is less likely to be faked by scum. I think scum would probably be a little guilty about sending unwarranted shade at the mod?

[Paragon]

I think they're both completely plausible scum, and that's largely a result of eyestott's inactivity + votato's inexperience.

I'm back to leaning votato now...

When can I get off this polandball?

[Paragon]

tin foil hat time: what if KAAG really is 1-shot BP, and thats why scum thought that would be a good claim. that would even explain the exact question asked of the mod. i havent thought about it enough to really know if it makes sense.

Thought about it any more to see if it would make sense? What purpose would that solve?

I kinda agree with Klicks, votato's response to me after I cased him was very towny in tone too. Could look at his early game here and compare it to Animals, that should be useful.

[Paragon]

I'm doing alright, Klicks. I'm not a fan of KAAG's tone here and votato's is fine. I think KAAG is the pick.

Also, I was thinking about it and we should probably Occam Razor the whole claim thing. What's more likely? The fact votato rolecopped eyestott day 1, or the fact eyestott is scum and fakeclaimed with a combination of his scum buddies? The latter for sure.

[Paragon]

Yeah, KAAG's tone just feels really disingenuous this game. From promising Alore he would go back and read all of his posts again if he flipped town, to pushing Fwensid and making a show of him being the only viable vote, to today's "I place no blame on myself" schtick.

[Paragon]

Sigh, I wanted to check meta to ensure it wasn't a NAI thing, but KAAG's last completed game is 4 years ago which isn't very helpful. May as well get this over with.

[Paragon]

VOTE: KickAssAndGiggle