Mini Normal 2137 | Polandball | Over

[votato]

First non-mod Page Top Winner is me!

VOTE: dolly. They can both have prizes!

[votato]

First off Where's the day start pm?
VOTE: DrippingGoofball
Long time

It still says pregame, maybe we're missing people?

[votato]

Always, regardless of what my role pm says.

[votato]

finding someone scummy and then not voting them? UNVOTE: whoever i was voting, and for clear and obvious scumtell, VOTE: blurry
pedit, sorta nevermind, but gonna take this train wherever its going. can't back out now, my computer doesnt have a backspace key.

[votato]

just as we were maybe moving out of RVS, along comes goofball to ruin everything

[votato]

3 Fwesnid
4 gibus

Blurryface3189

11Red Panda
12Drew-Sta
13Dolly Parton

1 unsubstantial this far but nice vote on drew

what is this? this isnt a read list is it?

[votato]

None of those seem very ai

[votato]

Oh boy it looks like I'll be asleep during the times that most people are awake. How lovely.

I like eyestott and goofball for town so far. Not a fan of quasar so UNVOTE: whoever I was on and VOTE: quasar

thats a lot of reads for being so early in the game. quasar doesn't seem super duper serious about his, but atarashi seems a lot more serious. Also, seeing someone else post reads and then posting your own reads reads a bit like scum thinking that they need to do something to look like they're gamesolving. at the same time its page 4, so I'm gonna give everyone a pass for now. consider it noted.

[votato]

a quick list of scummy things atarashi has done so far (other than completely spamming the thread with posts):

VOTE: votato

I rolled a 13-sided dice.

using the plural of "die" while clearly talking about only one.

Oooh add blurry onto the list of people to eventually pressure.

@mod: can you turn on my multiple votes superpower now? I wanna vote for two people at the same time.

wanting to pressure people but not stating a case, and having such a long scum list. There's been virtually 0 meaningful content to get reads from.

Add fwesnid to the list of potential scumboats too.

see above. credit for trying to get the game moving, but negative credit for the way youre going about doing it.

Oh boy it looks like I'll be asleep during the times that most people are awake. How lovely.

I like eyestott and goofball for town so far. Not a fan of quasar so UNVOTE: whoever I was on and VOTE: quasar

thats a lot of reads for being so early in the game. quasar doesn't seem super duper serious about his, but atarashi seems a lot more serious. Also, seeing someone else post reads and then posting your own reads reads a bit like scum thinking that they need to do something to look like they're gamesolving. at the same time its page 4, so I'm gonna give everyone a pass for now. consider it noted.

Dang you really don't want to be put in a townpile, do you? Fine, if you insist I'll take you back out of it.

I don't really care how you read me at this point. Unless you're reading me as a potential mate/romantic partner, and then color me interested (that goes for everyone btw). I'm still curious though why you're being so aggressive, and why you chose to post a read list immediately after quasar.

Actually, VOTE: Votato

I'm trying real hard to see how that post comes from a town-mindset and I'm drawing a blank.

How is it scummy to point out scummy behavior? You want pressure on people and have weak reasoning. It seems scummy to be so confident in your reads at this stage. And then there's your vote on me that seems pretty OMGUSsy. UNVOTE: . VOTE: atarashi

[votato]

as it happens, i did pressure you. this whole saga is me asking you to explain yourself. but instead of explaining yourself you went ahead and started saying im scum. im not sure how you should get the game moving. but i dont think that saying you find x. y, z, and w scummy without reason is all that helpful. I feel like me pushing back against you did get us moving. and not just from RVS to RQS, but to actual content. Again though, I'll give you some of the credit, you were right there with me holding my hand. Why dont you take me out to dinner instead? Since you're calling me honey ill take it youre at least somewhat interested. I think posting reads is normally NAI, but i think when it happens on page 3/4, if one person posts reads and then another immediately starts following, it pings. I'm not expecting a confident read. thats why im surprised that you seem to be so confident. Maybe once you explain your initial reads itll all make sense.

[votato]

You guys are probably right. I'll try to avoid tunneling on atarashi. Atarashi, could you do me a favor and explain all of your reads?

[votato]

VOTE: BlurryFace

We need a wagon.

but why that wagon? ping.

[votato]

For a brief moment, they rose above the noxious cloud of RVS. The air was clear, they could see rainbows of meaningful content and game progression in the distance. But then a random wagon appeared and dragged them back down. Everyone was miserable.

[votato]

I'd propose a counter-wagon.

VOTE: gibus

The other wagon would run over an innocent man.

I like the first 2 lines in this post.

Not to sure about the 3rd tbh.

what was so good about the first two?
dont wagon me please! OMGUS!

[votato]

has blurry made some mildly scummy posts? what were they?

[votato]

Don't associate me with him, smh.

I only voted on him because he switched his vote off of Dolly to vote on me.

As for why I initially voted on QuantumQuasar, it was because he accused me first so early in the game at a point where i haven't spoken much; regardless, my vote on him was half-hearted, which was why i only pointed a finger at him in a message and didnt do the vote in a later message until people asked me why I didn't. I do not think he is scum, nor do I want to actually vote on someone who could be innocent.

Moreover, gibus too was randomly taking potshots at Dolly in the beginning. Atleast Quantum had a shred of reasoning for voting on me, while gibus didn't for Dolly. And re-emphasizing my vote, VOTE: gibus.

downvote.

[votato]

has blurry made some mildly scummy posts? what were they?

I put my money on QuantumQuasar being scum; my senses are tingling.

Elaborate.

I put my money on QuantumQuasar being scum; my senses are tingling.

Elaborate.

I also want Blurry to elaborate.

VOTE: Blurryface3189

This thread. It is one public cue that has the potential to move the game.

the scummy post was the lack of an elaboration post? I feel like at least one of you probably is
scum, but so far i dont like either wagon over the other.

[votato]

It wasn't retaliation for voting on me. I voted on you and not on Pete because I actually believe you are scum.

could you make that case then? do you have any other reads?

[votato]

tbf, you've been brushing off questions too, like those coming from me...

[votato]

fair enough, I'll join team blurry against the evil baddies of team gibus. UNVOTE: atarashi, since apparently that wasnt gonna go anywhere for now. VOTE: gibus

[votato]

I see gibus ignored what I said, and instead reposted something he's already said before.

gibus, it doesn't matter who started the wagon here; I said just now that I voted on you because I actually think you are scum, not because you joined the wagon. You seem to be emphasizing that it was Pete that started the wagon, just to take the discussion away from whether or not you are scum.

The fact that gibus has just done this ^, alongside taking potshots at Dolly, then later me, while only justifying his actions as being required to get the game going seems to me like his idea of getting the game going is to just see blood.

I re-emphasize. VOTE: Blurryface3189

To summarize ^.

All he does is brush off evidence against him, again and again.

Brush off what evidence? What are you even talking about? Also what question did I brush off?

Your aimless aggression is making me think you're a very nooby townie, and not scum. But you will have my vote.

i think you're town but i'm voting you anyway. thats a very town move.

[votato]

Atarashi is town.

why do you say that?

[votato]

I get serious noob vibes from votato.

those vibes are accurate. this is my third game, with the first still being in-progress. coaching and advice welcome.

[votato]

VOTE: BlurryFace

We need a wagon.

I'm also curious why this wagon in particular when you had two potential wagons to pick from in me and votato, but you're probably town so I'm not sure how much I care.

Blurry only had two other posts and both of them were in RVS. He had a number of votes and a few people watching him, so why not?
Based on your talk with votato, both of you look like town to me. I thought Pete had the right idea in mind going after Blurry, and hence the wagon.

but why wagon for the sake of wagoning? what do you learn? If it isn't real pressure then you don't learn how those people respond to pressure.

[votato]

Spoiler: A lot of words

Also drew, what are your thoughts on the interactions between me and votato?

You're tunnelling each other at the moment. He's attacking, you're defending, IMHO. Your 'townread everyone' is presumptive and he's pressuring that, which I think is reasonable.

Your OMGUS vote is obvious. His retort is maybe childish but makes sense given he appears to believe you're reading scum. I'd say you're digging a hole for yourself with a number of your responses in posts.

I'm curious to see if you can articulate why you've town read people so early in a game.

Can you expand on how atarashi's vote was omgus, because for it being obvious I didn't see it?
I've found Atarashi's townreads quite reasonable. The dolly one is good and I would Imagine he has as good reasoning for the others, because there's been enough content from several people to give them a light townread.

80 and 81. Votato places some pressure on them, then Ata refutes, and then pushed back with a vote.

You're buddying him, BTW. I also like how he breaks posts down, as it fits with how I process things, but this early I find it interesting that you're sheeping his town reads.

has blurry made some mildly scummy posts? what were they?

^ The second message that he's simply brushed off without justifying his actions. Obvious scum.

fair enough, I'll join team blurry against the evil baddies of team gibus. UNVOTE: atarashi, since apparently that wasnt gonna go anywhere for now. VOTE: gibus

This interaction is bizarre. Votato's mainly. The flip flop 'this wasn't going anywhere' then you say this:

VOTE: BlurryFace

We need a wagon.

I'm also curious why this wagon in particular when you had two potential wagons to pick from in me and votato, but you're probably town so I'm not sure how much I care.

Blurry only had two other posts and both of them were in RVS. He had a number of votes and a few people watching him, so why not?
Based on your talk with votato, both of you look like town to me. I thought Pete had the right idea in mind going after Blurry, and hence the wagon.

but why wagon for the sake of wagoning? what do you learn? If it isn't real pressure then you don't learn how those people respond to pressure.

It's a complete contradiction of your line of reasoning. I think you're playing the noob card to throw people off your case. That, to me, is a scum tell.

VOTE: votato

Spoiler:

Going back, actually, this post bugs me.

Also drew, what are your thoughts on the interactions between me and votato?

You're tunnelling each other at the moment. He's attacking, you're defending, IMHO.

That's an interesting perspective given that we were both attacking each other. Speaking of confbias...

Your 'townread everyone' is presumptive and he's pressuring that, which I think is reasonable.

1. Except I scumread (4 -> quasar, blurry, fwesnid, votato) more people than I townread (3 -> eyestott, goofball, dolly)? What do you mean by this statement?

Your OMGUS vote is obvious.

2. Definitionally you're incorrect, but I think it's a little disingenuous to reduce the reasons I gave for pressuring him down to just OMGUS.

His retort is maybe childish but makes sense given he appears to believe you're reading scum. I'd say you're digging a hole for yourself with a number of your responses in posts.

3. Care to elaborate as to how I'm 'digging a hole' for myself?

I'm curious to see if you can articulate why you've town read people so early in a game.

4. I'll put them all here since I know votato asked me to explain all of them, even though you're only asking for my townreads:

eyestott - based almost entirely off of 46 and 53. Desire to get out of RVS and onto the game proper is usually townie IMO and while his execution of getting people out of RVS left a lot to be desired, the intention seemed genuine and I townread that.

goofball - based off 58, 59, 60 and 61. Reads as town trying to be semi-productive while still in RVS. 60 is big to me for this read - getting other people to elaborate on stuff creates more content and is

usually

townie.

dolly - already elaborated on her but it's here for you to look over again.

quasar - he's in the scumpile because of 68. Literally a nonsensical readslist that he seems to actually be pulling legitimate reads from but hasn't really made much of anything in the way of an attempt to translate it so that other people can understand it. 70 has an attempt to explain it but leaves me more confused than I was before.

blurry - based on 39 and 44. Says his scum senses are tingling, but doesn't vote until asked why he didn't do so (+townie points to eyestott for calling him out on it). Inb4 someone says that it's RVS - I'm aware but that doesn't change my thought process.

fwes - based on 49. Getting out of RVS is a good thing and this post does about everything it can to laugh in the face of the (admittedly) feeble and lame attempt to get out of RVS.

votato - if you don't know why I'm scumreading votato then you haven't been reading the dayphase.

I've numbered the above and placed it in spoiler, just so the wall isn't so big.

1. Sorry, you're correct. 74 shows a scum read and I missed it. I retract my statement.
2. Disagree based on 80 / 81 but I don't want to get into an argument on semantics. I don't see much in it, but felt it worthwhile pointing it out.
3. Tunnelling.
4. Thank you.

Yeah, you're right. I'm trying to do the things that I'm learning, but some of them feel odd. I learned recently that apparently the expectation is for everyone to be on a wagon or their vote is wasted. Failing starting my own, i hopped on one. I'm not sure I'm totally sold on either blurry or gibus' wagons, but their interaction is strange and doesnt read as town v town. At the same time, i feel like just hopping on a wagon doesn't add to pressure, and it's just sheeping. So yeah, I'm partly calling myself out, but asking someone to explain. Does that make sense?

[votato]

I also feel that this sentence

I'm not sure I'm totally sold on either blurry or gibus' wagons, but

their interaction is strange and doesnt read as town v town.

And this sentence

At the same time, i feel like just hopping on a wagon

doesn't add to pressure, and it's just sheeping

.

Are contradictory. Specifically the boldes.

let me clarify: their interaction doesnt read as town v town. There should be pressure on them. Hopping on a wagon just for the sake of being there seems to detract from the actual justification for the wagon, so I was questioning myself. And maybe midgame isnt the place for theory discussion, but doing it now lets me play better during this game, which is probably a good thing. Me questioning myself was out of concern that we would wind up exactly where we are now - sidetracked from actual wagons.

And I'm responding to your reads, nearly done.

[votato]

[deleted the first half of the post for brevity, it isnt relevant to this]
I'll put them all here since I know votato asked me to explain all of them, even though you're only asking for my townreads:

eyestott - based almost entirely off of 46 and 53. Desire to get out of RVS and onto the game proper is usually townie IMO and while his execution of getting people out of RVS left a lot to be desired, the intention seemed genuine and I townread that.

goofball - based off 58, 59, 60 and 61. Reads as town trying to be semi-productive while still in RVS. 60 is big to me for this read - getting other people to elaborate on stuff creates more content and is

usually

townie.

dolly - already elaborated on her but it's here for you to look over again.

quasar - he's in the scumpile because of 68. Literally a nonsensical readslist that he seems to actually be pulling legitimate reads from but hasn't really made much of anything in the way of an attempt to translate it so that other people can understand it. 70 has an attempt to explain it but leaves me more confused than I was before.

blurry - based on 39 and 44. Says his scum senses are tingling, but doesn't vote until asked why he didn't do so (+townie points to eyestott for calling him out on it). Inb4 someone says that it's RVS - I'm aware but that doesn't change my thought process.

fwes - based on 49. Getting out of RVS is a good thing and this post does about everything it can to laugh in the face of the (admittedly) feeble and lame attempt to get out of RVS.

votato - if you don't know why I'm scumreading votato then you haven't been reading the dayphase.

The eyestott read: saying RVS is over doesn't help to end RVS. Its also faked really easily. I'm not saying those are scummy posts, im just saying they dont actually contribute. pretty NAI imo.

goofball: 58 and 59 arent serious posts. It pings me that you give someone townpoints for reading you as scum. Feels sorta like scum trying to play it cool. 60 is townish, but its pretty easy to fake "Elaborate." And stating a read without any reason is also pretty easy to fake. Especially as scum. I don't think your read is necessarily wrong, I just think its to early to say, and you're giving more credit than is due.

Dolly: this read i actually agree with, and Dolly seems to be doing a bit more to move the game along. But still a big grain of salt, its very early, pretty easy to fake.

quasar: this is what initially pinged me about you. I agree with your read (although its super early and therefore i took it to be mostly non-serious). But then you go ahead and do the same thing later on the same page, also giving no justification for your reads. If you thought it was scummy, why did you do the exact same thing immediately afterwards. theres a contradiction there.

blurry: fair enough, but arent the more recent posts more AI?

fwes: i give this more or less the same NAI read that i gave eyestott's statement. Maybe a slight scum ping for keeping the game in RVS rather than a comment about the gamestate.

me: so far my play across the site has come off as scummy and not helpful. I'm gonna try being less aggressive and let more experienced players lead. Maybe you'll change your read going forward.

[votato]

hmmm... is it a mistake that blurry is voting gibus and also not voting?

[votato]

fair enough, I'll join team blurry against the evil baddies of team gibus. UNVOTE: atarashi, since apparently that wasnt gonna go anywhere for now. VOTE: gibus

and my vote is on gibus... wait are there shenanigans going on here?

[votato]

VOTE: QuantumQuasar

Iso is pathetic.

worse than any of the wagons so far. agreed.

UNVOTE: gibus or whatever my vote is being counted as being on... and VOTE: quantumquasar

[votato]

Yeah, you're right. I'm trying to do the things that I'm learning, but some of them feel odd. I learned recently that apparently the expectation is for everyone to be on a wagon or their vote is wasted. Failing starting my own, i hopped on one. I'm not sure I'm totally sold on either blurry or gibus' wagons, but their interaction is strange and doesnt read as town v town.

At the same time, i feel like just hopping on a wagon doesn't add to pressure, and it's just sheeping.

So yeah, I'm partly calling myself out, but asking someone to explain. Does that make sense?

So you say this...

VOTE: QuantumQuasar

Iso is pathetic.

worse than any of the wagons so far. agreed.

UNVOTE: gibus or whatever my vote is being counted as being on... and VOTE: quantumquasar

... then do this ^^.

Why.

i think a little pressure might encourage quantum to contribute something. Have you looked at that iso?

[votato]

@votato - so you've now changed your view on wagoning and believe it's useful?

i believe wagons are useful for putting pressure on scummy players. I just don't think we should wagon purely for the sake of wagoning. So if someone has a terrible iso we should wagon them. But we shouldn't wagon people just to see what happens.

[votato]

@votato - so you've now changed your view on wagoning and believe it's useful?

i believe wagons are useful for putting pressure on scummy players. I just don't think we should wagon purely for the sake of wagoning. So if someone has a terrible iso we should wagon them. But we shouldn't wagon people just to see what happens.

You literally just sheeped someone for a vote without making any argument for them, and it contradicts what you said.

Is anyone else reading this?

the argument is that his iso is awful. This is a pressure vote for him to stop actively lurking. Now mostly just lurking.

The gibus wagon is looking really good. I'm fine with that wagon too.

[votato]

@votato - so you've now changed your view on wagoning and believe it's useful?

i believe wagons are useful for putting pressure on scummy players. I just don't think we should wagon purely for the sake of wagoning. So if someone has a terrible iso we should wagon them. But we shouldn't wagon people just to see what happens.

You literally just sheeped someone for a vote without making any argument for them, and it contradicts what you said.

Is anyone else reading this?

This is a pressure vote for him to stop actively lurking. Now mostly just lurking.

I don't think quasar was ever actively lurking.

The gibus wagon is looking really good. I'm fine with that wagon too.

What parts of the gibus wagon look good?

maybe not. he made a couple posts at the very beginning. he offered his strange readlist and then strange explanations that come off as "look at me im helping" while being so unhelpful that they only serve to confuse town. And see atarashi's case against you. They've done a good job presenting it.

[votato]

Blurry is suspicious just vote him off.

...
...
... what? Yeah I'm definitely down for a quasar wagon here. His reads still make no sense, and it feels like he's trying to confuse us maybe.

for me the current scumpool is {quasar, gibus, blurry, fwesnid}.
Really not sure what to make of fwesnid's posts. Maybe I'm low hanging fruit but the questions asked of me were fair. I feel like I clarified that though? Really strange logic, so a weak scumlean.

[votato]

I can't give you quasar's level of reassurance, but here is an updated list fmpov(you may not agree on blurry/me for possible distancing, but I know for a fact that it isn't distancing):

Town: Atarashi, Blurry, Dolly, Drew, gibus, and quasar.

Can't say because of lack of information(loi): Goofball, eyestott, Misa, Pete, Red Panda, fwesnid (I know I've voted for fwesnid in the past, but that was just bad reading from my part)

That only leaves votato, who has had a weird set of posts recently.
I agree with Drew (167 & 210) and since lynching the loi part in D1 makes no sense, I heavily lean towards votato being scum for D1.

Blurry is suspicious just vote him off.

...
...
... what? Yeah I'm definitely down for a quasar wagon here. His reads still make no sense, and it feels like he's trying to confuse us maybe.

for me the current scumpool is {quasar, gibus, blurry, fwesnid}.
Really not sure what to make of fwesnid's posts. Maybe I'm low hanging fruit but the questions asked of me were fair. I feel like I clarified that though? Really strange logic, so a weak scumlean.

Good job jumping on another "wagon". Because of bad reads?
Your scumpool is bad fmpov, and that is all the more reason I think you're scum.


I've made it clear that the reasoning is fmpov, so this is only MY vote. I don't expect any of you to buy it since I've put myself in the town list.
@Dolly I don't want to hurt town chances by voting for someone I think could be town.

VOTE: Votato

thats a bad take. please carefully read my iso, then explain to me which of my reads are bad and why, as well as what exactly in my posts you didnt like. seems like youre just latching on to what other people said and trying to claim their reads as yours. also, re-reading my iso might help clarify the whole wagon thing. if it doesnt, maybe ill explain it again.

[votato]

Seems like no one's answered my question. What justification does anyone have to offer for me being scum apart from "looks suspicious"?

And Dolly, "follow me blindly" sounds ever so slightly like you also want to do a wagon. Hmmm.

Read the thread. Cases were stated against you.

[votato]

Wait what? You aren't gonna let him claim it defend himself? Wtf

[votato]

Seems like no one's answered my question. What justification does anyone have to offer for me being scum apart from "looks suspicious"?

And Dolly, "follow me blindly" sounds ever so slightly like you also want to do a wagon. Hmmm.

That is what she suggested lol, she wants to hammer fast

ironic

[votato]

quantum, do you have any final thoughts to share while saladman is away?

[votato]

Also you didn’t answer my part about why you put yourself on the end of your tow list like an afterthought

If you're talking about #266, the names were in dictionary order

yeah, thats not a natural way to order people. You order them as they pop into your mind, or in some thematic order. Sorting alphabetically is not at all organic, and comes off smelling strongly of scum trying to hide their actual thinking. Only scum would need such an inorganic ordering system.

Gibus, still stand behind that hammer without stating intent and giving the JK a chance to claim?

Gib- Why did you hammer someone you townread as of your latest post reading them? And in the same post, why was your name towards the end of the list of people you think are town, almost like an afterthought?

I didn't hammer QQ without reason, I should have posted why before I did. It didn't look like the game was moving forward and a lot of people were lurking. I thought it was best to go to D2 and continue from there. My vote on votato didn't have any value, and QQ wasn't helping (gave a bad ISO built on RVS, as a result of a prod).

This is not an alt account, and my knowledge on lingo is from MafiaWiki.

I definitely won't be hammering anybody without a reason.

yeah, sorry. thats not a reason to hammer. That is reason enough to vote for someone, but definitely not to hammer them. You gave QQ no chance to defend himself, roleclaim, etc. and a town PR died as a result. Killing people quickly benefits scum and hurts town.

also, pickaxe pete's vote reads as quite opportunistic. if gibus does flip town im going to be looking there for answers.

dolly, im not sure your logic holds. When i was brand new i saw other people using lingo and immediately went to the wiki to read up and learn it. i dont think knowledge of jargon or how the forum works is AI.

VOTE: gibus.

that's L-2.

I want better explanation from gibus about why he killed QQ rather than just stating intent to hammer or letting QQ defend himself. As someone who was on that wagon, even I wasn't ready for a lynch there. pressure=/=reason or intent to lynch. thats just the way the game progresses. you have to push people for clues and information. shake the tree and see what falls out. you dont drop a bomb on the tree just in case theres a hornets nest.

[votato]

VOTE: gibus hammertime!

[votato]

VOTE: gibus L-1

Let's hear a claim. It's clear where this day is headed, so let's get the claim early.

I'm vanilla townie

what do you make of my hammer on you?

[votato]

what. the. fuck.

[votato]

i mean, based on reaction, at this point i believe the claim.

nice playing with you gibus. sorry it happened like this.

i think its pretty bad for town to have 2 lolhammers, yeah. its hard to to VCA in a normal situation, but here its gonna be a nightmare. Also, with no progression or time for people to post and make themselves scummy, its gonna be harder to develop reads. at this point my reads are largely still based on the time immediately after RVS. Theres been very little content since then.

[votato]

If he flips town I want to look at dolly

If he flips scum I want to look at dgb

whys that?

[votato]

and what do you think of my FoS on pickaxe if this flips town?
also, what do we think about blurry? i honestly cannot believe that scum would lolhammer on d2 after a d1 lolhammer. i feel like its gotta be noobtown. that said, seems to be a liability, but we really dont have much time for mislynches, as we are rapidly approaching mylo.

[votato]

I don’t have time to type it all out now bc I’m working which is why I said to fucking wait votato

for the record, I'm not the one who hammered. I put the wagon at L-2 and then gave a fake-hammer. blurry took that as license to actually hammer.

[votato]

ok, fair enough. i guess i couldnt imagine another lolhammer.

[votato]

VOTE: gibus L-1

Let's hear a claim. It's clear where this day is headed, so let's get the claim early.

I'm vanilla townie

what do you make of my hammer on you?

you don't know how to do a fake hammer do you

well i didnt expect it to be convincing considering my vote was on the same page like 3 posts earlier. But it was worth a shot.

[votato]

You don’t know how to be useful do you

I lied I wanna look at votato if he flips town

nope, im bad.

[votato]

Alright I’m on my fifteen so I can kinda elaborate

I think we take a look at dolly bc she’s been kinda immune to pressure thus far, I think one of her and gib is town (that she could be whiteknighting if he flips town). Her jump on the wagon was for super flawed reasoning which I pointed out and went ignored

Votato was drews one big push. The only other reason I could see drew dying is to keep the status quo of the game the same. He also called blurrys hammer a lolhammer which is a term I don’t expect new people to know and I don’t think I saw anyone in the thread say it so he might have picked it up from the scum pt

DGB has done nothing memorable apart from being an early vote on both wagons with little reasoning behind it

Pete I could see flip either way and not be surprised

Blurry I think is dumb town I don’t think scum blurry lolhammers when he sees what’s happening to gib bc of it

Paragons vote was shit but I didn’t see enough from the slot to garner a read

I think haruhi is demotivated town and I’m mad I didn’t get to talk to her today

I honestly can’t remember anything fwesnid did other than argue with drew but I have too many scum reads as is so let me go skim his iso

ive seen the term lolhammer in other games and on the wiki. I, too, went to the wiki to learn the lingo and how to play. I mentioned that above. As you can see from your own readlist, pretty much everyone in this game has done some questionable stuff and town-reads are hard to come by. Who would you say was more a town-lock than drew at the end of d1? Also, NKA is bad. you should feel bad. How are you gonna have a scum list that long anyway? I dunno, i thought drew's case against me came from a town place, but this feels really strange. I feel like there really isnt much there in the things youve pointed out. I guess I'll withhold judgement on you until you have a chance to post a bit more.

haruhi is atarashi? why do you say demotivated town? you dont think the inactivity was NAI rl stuff? I think everyone's vote on the wagon was shit, but why call out paragon in particular? it was the start of the day, yesterday was fucked, what in particular struck you about that vote? or are you just looking for things to be suspicious of? I agree with you on blurry, but you dont think its worth at least pressing tomorrow?

[votato]

I think it looks bad for blurry, especially if gibus flips scum. Also kind of bad for votato, paragon and yourself (the other two moreso than you notty)

explain? you think if scum, then scum lolhammered? im also not sure about the rest of that. you just think everyone on the wagon is scum? how many scum do notsci and eyesnott think are on the wagon?

[votato]

And for the record votato I haven’t even brought up that you are shadowing everything dgb does which is sketchy too! I’m almost leaning t/s between the two of you but not sure which like dolly and gib!

I am?

also, i didnt mean to come off as quite so aggressive. I figured a few quick questions on the null slot would be helpful to everyone.

[votato]

Your votes have shadowed dgbs

hmm... didnt i mention at the end of d1 that id wagon gibus today?

[votato]

fwesnid: you scum read me for being the only person who has a good reason for their vote? what? am i misreading that? also, i dont see much merit in doing wagon analysis here. maybe individual votes, and reasoning. but with a lolhammer i feel like theres a much higher degree of randomness to who is on wagons, no?

[votato]

You keep saying certain paths of analysis aren’t good- why?

lol hammers don’t change how the wagon forms for the record. It prevents counter wagons for analysis, yes. And it’s interesting how similar day 1 and 2s wagons are, which you can’t deny. Same group sans one person? That’s weird.

it is weird. but isnt that a result of the logic being the same? the two lynches looked similar because they were similar. there are three scum in this game. the wagons were more than double that. even if all three scum were on both wagons, thats a pretty big pool of people. Im sure later on with more flips and content itll be worth looking at, but right now its probably just a huge mess ripe for wifom and finding patterns that are luck rather than causal. im still new, so feel free to correct me on methodology, but thats how it seems to me.

[votato]

this Is a game of getting as much information to make an informed decision as possible

Yes, I see what you’re saying. But nonetheless, we saw how the same groups wagon ended up yesterday. Assuming today’s ends the same don’t you think there’s a good chance scum are pushing apathy wagons on lynchbait?

i dont see these as apathy wagons. it wasnt that no one cared so a random lynch wound up happening. people cared but the lynch happened prematurely. Maybe a second lolhammer might upset people and cause them to lose interest, but i think we both agree that blurry is probably town. scum could push the wagon, but how could scum anticipate the hammer? if you think scum pushed the hammer, who do you think did it? dgb?

[votato]

QQ vs Blurry =

scum vs scum

I can see this. With gibus leaving me hanging on Blurry I'll help out here.

VOTE: QuantumQuasar

Oh, right. Sheeping dgb

You now tr dgb. Why is it scummy to sheep town on an early d1 wagon? You seem to be saying that dgb is town and making arguments based on scum!dgb.

Could you explain your progression from im scum killing a threat to scum are trying to kill off the non-lynchbait? Why does that implicate dolly? Dolly seems to be universally townread.

In answer to your question, if there was scum on the qq wagon I'd guess blurry. If two scum maybe blurry and fwesnid?

[votato]

Well scum could lolhammer knowing the last person was town and being (rightly) that we wouldn't go after the second lolhammer. To you the lolhammer seems to give townpoints

[votato]

Also kill makes sense with my “keep status quo the same” and “keep all lynchbait alive” theories.

Maybe Harati had good reads.

what do you make of atarashi's reads then? where do you think that leads us?

[votato]

what are your reads dripping?

[votato]

what are your reads dripping?

None, I have to reread. Also waiting for Pickaxe Pete.

why would your current reads depend on what seems like an investigative finding? fair enough for the first part though.

[votato]

i think everyone's reads on people named votato are their most important reads, to be fair.

[votato]

I assume you're referring to the exchange earlier on this page (526
nope. I'm not willing to bet the farm on dolly being town. I just meant that i dont buy the argument that scum!dolly kills atarashi because she's threatened, because dolly is widely townread.

[votato]

That’s the point I was making dude.

It’s not a matter of “threatening” it’s a matter of “this train wreck is going to crash better keep taking out supports so it can’t right itself”

if you agree that the logic suggests that scum!dolly doesnt kill atarashi, then why do you think atarashi's death makes dolly scum?

[votato]

I agree with the logic, not the conclusion.

Let’s say we have four groups, A B C and scum is D. You are in the scum votato (hypothetically)

Group a suspects b

Group b suspects a

Group c isn’t sure and is going to review and come back after night phase

Who do you kill?

the obvious choice is to kill group c. But is dolly the only slot that isnt really much suspected? I'd say the same about you and paragon at least. Also, i could see a scenario where scum kills group a or b, and tries to use that as evidence to convince group c to mislynch group a. I see what you're saying, i just dont see the leap you make from "this is a plausible scenario" to "this is the scenario we are in, and dolly is group d."

[votato]

Because it’s not the main reason I’m voting dolly? If you peruse my iso I’ve been saying that I thought one of folly/gib was scum based off their interactions, plus dollys weak votes on the core wagons of both days. Dolly works in this instance as A, b, or d. I’m pairing this with the things I’ve already stated multiple times I didn’t like to come up with a conclusion.

Also no ones given a read on me sans dollys vote and unvote based off a misunderstanding. No ones given a read on paragon either because he’s done literally nothing lol

maybe im going too far. I townread you. and yeah, i realize paragon has done nothing. but its still a possible option.

i see at least some merit in your case (you havent convinced me, but im willing to explore it) against dolly. I just dont see why this particular tidbit fits into that case.

[votato]

Oh and dolly isn’t confirmed town so weigh in pls and thanks

Mhm I’m just really bored

is anyone confirmed town?

[votato]

The people who flipped already

actually i still have my doubts about gibus

[votato]

well in that case, i propose that we lynch all of my top townreads.

[votato]

yeah i agree. I've seen way worse from far more experienced players. Its just a bit unfortunate.

[votato]

Paragon, where did you go last night?

Oh, interesting. I went nowhere.

Hey, eyestott! I reckon I'll repay the favour in this game if you catch my drift.

In 2125 eyestott did you a solid with a clear. I read this as saying that you should have two clears. We're in a position where we need them. So I'm either sheeping you today or voting you.

eyetoast cleared paragon? how do you figure? did you also clear paragon?

[votato]

Paragon, where did you go last night?

Oh, interesting. I went nowhere.

Hey, eyestott! I reckon I'll repay the favour in this game if you catch my drift.

In 2125 eyestott did you a solid with a clear. I read this as saying that you should have two clears. We're in a position where we need them. So I'm either sheeping you today or voting you.

Lul, good job spotting that.

My intention with that entirely was to soft an investigative PR with that post, hope scum!eyestott or other scum catch on, and then nightkill me (a meh slot). So much for that though.

how would it help town if you were killed? who do you think it would have pointed to?

[votato]

so you interpret pete as asking you to out your result?

[votato]

What do you like about dolly?

her body and face. her personality is so-so

[votato]

Actually, it's pretty obvious you're tracker at this point, Pete. Scum will know for a fact if they're not oblivious, so out with your claim. I have more thoughts to give after you claim.

You softed a PR that you didn't think anyone would pick up on. When called on it, you thought I might be running a gambit to get you to claim. Now you want me to claim.

I catch your drift

Did you miss this? I think you did and that you may be scum.

VOTE: Paragon

this is pickaxe? if so please quote this into your iso

[votato]

Ah yes there’s our tree stump

what is this?

[votato]

yeah but paragon, the soft wasnt very subtle. why did you think eyesnott would pick up on it in particular?

[votato]

i dont see any upside for town!paragon to run this gambit. I also don't see any motivation for scum!paragon to do it.

[votato]

i dont see how asking questions of you both is fence sitty. youre right in that i hadnt taken a strong stance - i think the only person who took a strong stance there was pickaxe who voted you. why do you think im particularly scummy for not taking a stand against one or the other of you when no one else did? i still feel like the interaction is incomplete, we are missing the punch-line of pickaxe's case. you can call it fence-sitty, i call it not wanting to be too aggressive hopping on another wagon. two lynches that bad are kinda making me rethink my perspective.

[votato]

as for the other parts of your case, i really didnt have a good opportunity to evaluate either wagon due to the manner in which the lynches happened. i stated my reasons, and feel that they were legitimate, for being on each wagon. had I known a hammer was imminent, i would have unvoted in both cases, but there wasn't much I could do about it. i did believe in my reasons for a vote, i just think each hammer was premature. granted, its a bit unfortunate to be on both lynches, but dripping and dolly were also on both lynches, and as notsci noted, their reasoning was worse.

its true that drew-sta and atarashi both scumread me. atarashi had other scumreads. they were also the two least scumread people in the game afaik, so that combined with the fact that they were some of the few active slots talking sense makes them good candidates for night kills regardless of their views of me. it seems pretty strange that all the posts you chose of atarashi scumreading me were from the first 6 pages of the thread (basically RVS), since atarashi then said this:

I get serious noob vibes from votato.

Eh, the more I'm re-reading the more I think this is probably true and, if true, is more likely to be noob-town rather than noob-scum given the tunneling so I'll UNVOTE: and find a better place for my vote. Probably somewhere in the blurry/gibus debacle but I'm not sure yet.

after that i had a brief back-and-forth with atarashi, but after that he didnt mention me a single time, not for the rest of d1 or the entirety of d2. for that span he was focused on gibus.

my questions to you are as follows: why single me out from the three people who were on both lynch wagons? if its such a scumtell, do you think that the scum team is {votato, dgb, dolly}? would we really be that obvious about it? atarashi had a bunch of people he FOSd in the first few pages, so why pick out me as the scum? it sorta feels like youre concerned about the pressure from pickaxe and now you magically go find something scummy going all the way back to the first pages of the thread. Your gambit seems strange. I do understand why youd want to try and attract a scum bullet, but had you done so town would have learned nothing since your slot had been almost completely inactive. It seems more likely actually that scum!you wanted to plant some breadcrumbs so that you could either out PRs or run whatever gambit it is that youre running.

anyway, VOTE: paragon

[votato]

yeah all the stuff in atarashi's iso where he SRd me was super early on. im pretty sure he only felt that way at the start of d1. and fair enough, i feel like i was very nooby back then. i feel likel i probably still am now. its sort of convenient that you see all the incriminating evidence against me, but happen to miss the exonerating evidence. I don't buy your reasoning about your motivations. It seems odd to replace into a game and immediately try to get yourself killed, especially if the only person who would know why you got killed is the scum killing you. Pete's reasoning is marginally better. I can see scum trying to pocket someone immediately upon joining. I feel like maybe there's yet another reason I dont understand, but between those two options i think pete's makes more sense.

[votato]

and had you asked me about my neutral/safe responses, you would have gotten reasonable justification i think. i dont mind taking a stand, but we are getting to the point in the game where the stands we choose to take are really important. and the last two times i took a strong stand an innocent person died prematurely.

[votato]

Like I said before I doubt scum-dgb claims like that. ESP given how little presence she’s had it doesn’t make sense to until she’s been pressured

And although blurry being mia is sketchy I still think too dumb to be scum

Idk how to feel re paragon tho

hop on the wagon. Let's get some pressure and find out

[votato]

more likely he'll be lynched

[votato]

Well, you'll be in LyLo tomorrow. Good luck to you all.

??

[votato]

youre leaving?

[votato]

"Good luck to you all."
that sounds like youre giving up. i have metareasons from an ongoing game that suggest this lines up with scum!paragon

[votato]

im not gonna go into details. ive seen other people say similar things about ongoing games without anyone complaining.

[votato]

that all your scumgames are the same? that i have a big enough sample size? yeah i agree theres not a ton there. but its interesting that youre now posting again.

[votato]

notty, I'm questioning everything. In my eyes, Para and Pete come out of this play looking town, Pete much more than Paragon.
My reads are still at like, a d1 state, because of how this game has played out. I have a gut feeling that the team is Blurry/votato/DGB, but this isn't substantiated by any proof, so please take it with a grain of salt.

i think i agree with at least two of those three. I'm ok with inquiring there.

[votato]

yeah i feel like we should be sharing reads, even if we dont put people at L-1

[votato]

yeah i have a strong townread on that votato character. ok with pressuring all three just to be sure though.

[votato]

I do foresee myself voting paragon at some point today I’m getting a lot of townfeels from other slots.

I’m not getting them from paragon eyestott votato atm

shit hes onto us, boys.
i realize content is shit atm, but game is shit too atm.

[votato]

Well, scum are in a good position with everyone mia, including the mod. I imagine they're doing their talking in the PT.

you tell me. ping.

[votato]

ok. VOTE: pickaxe. you're probably right that the vote wasnt needed, strictly speaking. on the other hand, when is putting someone at L-2 dangerous in a normal game? also ironic that youre calling out eyestott for lack of posting. almost the entirety of your iso is fluff. here is almost every non-fluff post.

Spoiler:

you've been caught gibus

VOTE: gibus

not a good vote. reads as opportunism and sheeping. theres been no statement of reads or suspicion prior to this.

Paragon, where did you go last night?

Oh, interesting. I went nowhere.

Hey, eyestott! I reckon I'll repay the favour in this game if you catch my drift.

In 2125 eyestott did you a solid with a clear. I read this as saying that you should have two clears. We're in a position where we need them. So I'm either sheeping you today or voting you.

some attempt at gamesolving maybe. trying to get a PR to hardclaim isnt really a great look tho.

Actually, it's pretty obvious you're tracker at this point, Pete. Scum will know for a fact if they're not oblivious, so out with your claim. I have more thoughts to give after you claim.

You softed a PR that you didn't think anyone would pick up on. When called on it, you thought I might be running a gambit to get you to claim. Now you want me to claim.

I catch your drift

Did you miss this? I think you did and that you may be scum.

VOTE: Paragon

VOTE: Paragon

wants the softclaimed PR to claim, but refuses to claim himself. I'm still waiting for this to be explained.

I softed with the intention eyestott would pick up on it, for reasons you're fully aware of! The plan was to get nightkilled if eyestott was scum basically.

Also yeah, I did miss that post from you.

On the other hand, I think you may have been foiled in an attempt to pocket eyestott.

ok. not sure i see much in terms of pocketing, but whatever. it isnt really fluff

Not worried about fwesnid right now. [paragon,blurry,drippinggoofball]

youre worried about those three? youve made no effort to push blurry or dgb, but have thrown shade other places. trying to just throw a bunch of shit and see where itll stick?

Apart from the wagon that was randomly started against me, no one has really provided any explanation as to why I'm scum, rather than that I just dont "look good".

The only thing I can think of is me accusing Quantum in the first RVS on day 1, which votato saw scummy, as I provided no explanation to picking Quantum. However, I explained my vote in 123, and this was all good.

This is the post that strikes me and scummy, mainly because of the way he brushes aside the case on himself

Now, it’s important for you to realise this, notty. I am quite bad at this game. I only recently started playing again, and I’ve had quite bad reads universally. So I place very little faith in my own reads. I’m much better at this game when it gets to lylo and I can help work a solve. Til then, I think my best course of action is find a solid townread, learn from them in how they scumhunt, and sheep them.

Gibus, what’s your experience with face to face mafia/ online mafia like epicmafia/ forum mafia?

This is literally my first game, I've never played mafia before (not even in RL).

Oooh interesting. I reckon that scum!gibus would make quite obvious mistakes then. Whatcha think notty?

I think this is the extent of your hunting this game, eyestott. You have any more of this in you?

actually this is just fluff. i quoted cuz its long, but theres no content.

Also you didn’t answer my part about why you put yourself on the end of your tow list like an afterthought

If you're talking about #266, the names were in dictionary order

yeah, thats not a natural way to order people. You order them as they pop into your mind, or in some thematic order. Sorting alphabetically is not at all organic, and comes off smelling strongly of scum trying to hide their actual thinking. Only scum would need such an inorganic ordering system.

Gibus, still stand behind that hammer without stating intent and giving the JK a chance to claim?

Gib- Why did you hammer someone you townread as of your latest post reading them? And in the same post, why was your name towards the end of the list of people you think are town, almost like an afterthought?

I didn't hammer QQ without reason, I should have posted why before I did. It didn't look like the game was moving forward and a lot of people were lurking. I thought it was best to go to D2 and continue from there. My vote on votato didn't have any value, and QQ wasn't helping (gave a bad ISO built on RVS, as a result of a prod).

This is not an alt account, and my knowledge on lingo is from MafiaWiki.

I definitely won't be hammering anybody without a reason.

yeah, sorry. thats not a reason to hammer. That is reason enough to vote for someone, but definitely not to hammer them. You gave QQ no chance to defend himself, roleclaim, etc. and a town PR died as a result. Killing people quickly benefits scum and hurts town.

also, pickaxe pete's vote reads as quite opportunistic. if gibus does flip town im going to be looking there for answers.

dolly, im not sure your logic holds. When i was brand new i saw other people using lingo and immediately went to the wiki to read up and learn it. i dont think knowledge of jargon or how the forum works is AI.

VOTE: gibus.

that's L-2.

I want better explanation from gibus about why he killed QQ rather than just stating intent to hammer or letting QQ defend himself. As someone who was on that wagon, even I wasn't ready for a lynch there. pressure=/=reason or intent to lynch. thats just the way the game progresses. you have to push people for clues and information. shake the tree and see what falls out. you dont drop a bomb on the tree just in case theres a hornets nest.

I still don't like this post. This was a few posts after notscience said Dolly took gibus out of context. You pin Dolly for doing that, and you pin me for sheeping Dolly, but then you lay a L-2 vote on gibus in the guise of a pressure vote for the lol hammer. I don't understand why you added a vote. It wasn't necessary. You could have yelled at Dolly and me and gibus and got your point across without voting him. In fact, if you thought my vote was scummy, you probably should have voted me instead while still questioning gibus. The pressure was already on him. And you could have voted him for that reason if dgb, Dolly or I unvoted. The way it looks it was an inconspicuous way for you to slide in a vote on that wagon.

whereas yours was a conspicuous way to slide on a wagon. had there been more time yesterday i might have been able to push you as well. but im happy to do it now

[votato]

I'm looking for reasons to have content. Any content will do. Apathy is death for towns. Even if that conflict means i get mislynched at some point.

[votato]

I'm looking for reasons to have content. Any content will do. Apathy is death for towns. Even if that conflict means i get mislynched at some point.

So what pinged you about 686?

How does taking the pressure off of paragon produce content? Don't you think it would be beneficial to see what counter wagon forms to paragon's? What are your thoughts on eyestott?

it was lamist. Paragon seems to have returned to lurkland, so i could be persuaded to pressure there. Eyesnott is null basically. Not enough posts. But that's not a good sign at this point

[votato]

@votato

Where do you think scum are located wrt activity? Do you think they are higher posters or more lurky? Or a mix of both?

sorry i missed this. Apparently there's generally rarely more than one scum among the most active players. In this case there is no middle ground, so it's a bit hard to say. I doubt all three scum are lurking completely.

[votato]

I guess I should let you get through Day 3 before I ask questions.

Why? No. Bad

[votato]

I feel like mass claims are always bad for town. I also feel like only townies ever propose mass claims.

[votato]

tru but this isnt lylo. i cant imagine it helping much, but ill do it if theres consensus.

[votato]

well what do you think about my thoughts about pickaxe then? its hard to discuss if no one responds

[votato]

the klick slot definitely gives some bad vibes. sell me on dolly and the association?

notsci, fair enough, i just want some case somewhere. some sort of content has to happen somehow or we just lose.

[votato]

I still exist. I basically have no time and I'm kind of lost this game. No longer confident on votato!scum, but I have no idea where else to go.

sad to see you go. is there anything we can do to win back your business? if you have a few minutes, we'd appreciate the time to fill out this quick survey

[votato]

I dont know if we have time to wait a whole day

[votato]

i think i said this, but im ok with massclaim if thats what people want. i have no significant issues with the order

[votato]

yeah it would be great to hear from klick and para and eyestott more here. i still feel like dbg hasnt really said enough either. i dunno, no one has really said enough. rip.

[votato]

to be fair no one has really taken a firm stance on anything since theres no content. that said, you're right, no one is a townlock.

[votato]

Hello, the last couple of days have been busy for me, it'll be brief but I'll finish my catchup tonight.

Im a VT.

IMO Pickaxe Pete should be claiming much earlier than he is in that order

i agree with that. i kinda think pickaxe should be claiming next, but i guess if eyestott claims ill claim regardless of whether pickaxe shows up.

[votato]

im an x-shot roleblocker. no comment on blocks remaining. if needed i can reveal x.

[votato]

1-shot. no crumbs. if you look through my other games you wont see crumbs there either though.

[votato]

unused. There wasnt much to go on, but i thought i'd probably be alive long enough to use it later with more info.

[votato]

notsci i think you claim here before eyestott. unless you're an investigative i suppose

[votato]

im gonna suggest that we wait for the last two claims before discussing too much here.

[votato]

i have a hard time swallowing the double 1-shot voyeur. what are the odds that its dgb, notsci, and ??

[votato]

my working hypothesis: dgb starts to see momentum shifting towards her, so she decides to claim early and get out ahead. the massclaim rolls around and notsci is in a position to justify going last, so he waits and ensures that he is safe to claim an investigative that clears dgb, knowing that otherwise dgb will be outed. its a risky gambit, but dgb seems to have been on the chopping block until notsci's claim. in 807), notsci says that scum must have a roleblocker because of dgb's claim (470. dgb's claim actually says that she got a result, but that the result was nothing. that doesnt prove that there was a roleblocker. i guess that's probably an error and not AI, but its interesting nevertheless.

[votato]

Can you explain why you think roleblocker is fake? Most town prs are 1-shot. Being 1- shot myself it's unlikely to hit town. Scum must have quite a lot of power, and it's fairly likely that i could hit them

[votato]

They’re saying you’re the scum roleblocker

yeah but it doesnt make sense for scum to have a roleblocker if most town PRs are 1-shot. it makes sense to have a town roleblocker since the scum roles will probably not be 1-shot.

[votato]

Dgb got blocked n1

thats not what dgb said

[votato]

I think I should put it out there, I was very confused this morning.

First, the mod forgot to give me the results of my night action.

I am a 1-shot voyeur

Second, the dead player flipped 1-shot voyeur also so I was sure there was a mistake and I had been sent the wrong role.

I got in touch with the mod, and my result was that no action was taken on blurry. I didn't give a whole lot of thought about my target, because voyeur is a pretty trash role, and since I always get NK'd early I thought it was now or never.

dbg said she got a result. the result was that no action was taken.

[votato]

I like Klick.

votato, why can't scum have a 1 or 2 shot roleblocker to account for most town PRs being 1-shot, and why are you assuming the scum roles will "probably not be 1-shot"?

based on balance of power. town seems to have a lot of power roles. my guess would be that for balance scum would have to have countervailing power roles to match.

[votato]

same root as prevail. i just mean that scum have to have power to counteract the power town has.

[votato]

She’s clarifying for sake of the role blocker discussion

She is clarifying? Who is?

[votato]

What do you think of votatos claim

i for sure believe it.

[votato]

UNVOTE: Paragon

why?

[votato]

But just going on gut, I think there is scum in the VT claims.

Probably ONE goon in that lot.

What is Paragon's claim? I might have missed it.

If we think theres scum in there and we think it isnt klick we are pretty safe to lynch both paragon and pete here. Theyre both in my lynchpool here anyway

[votato]

Although i gotta say something really doesnt sit right with notsci's claim

[votato]

notsci dolly and eyestotts claims stick out to me

[votato]

Mmm, i feel like there arent any conftown

[votato]

Your question to dgb was her top 3 scum and she literally said you and klick last page?

And stop being a drama queen Jesus

Where is the 3rd pick then?

That's a lazy answer anyways. I just DON'T get why people are pushing me anyways.

is it

B

ecause I'm

P

retty?

This game is like walking with wet shoes and pants through a dry dry dry desert.

Dgb this is the post in question and like I said it was after we discussed massclaiming

@dolly everyone has claimed everything so who’s claims are fake? Why?

Do you have a nice and neat list of the claims and who claimed them?

But just going on gut, I think there is scum in the VT claims. I don't see all scum claiming a PR. Also, I believe the BP/Watcher claim for reasons.

Dolly/eyestott/votato, then?

whats that based on? and you think dollys solve involves dolly?

[votato]

Votato can you explain in detail what you don’t like about each of those claims tia

yours is very different than all the other investigatives. it doesnt quite fit the pattern. dolly and eyestott have the 1-shot bulletproof which seems really convenient. it means they can explain why they arent NK'd. theyre also the only roles among the 1-shot roles that have two roles.

[votato]

and theres not really any way to follow the progressions of the wagons, since there was no progression to the wagons.

[votato]

An answer that

vague

is only going to keep my vote on you all day. You're going to be

clear

, or you're going to be lynched.

The bolded words are antonyms

i think its pronounced auntonyms.

[votato]

What makes you think dolly town dgb? Help me see the light?

She said Klick is 100% scum.

Actually I'm reconsidering this

Maybe Klick is her scumpal.

elaborate?

[votato]

can someone summarize the dolly case? is it mostly the claim shenanigans?

[votato]

Uh i don't think it necessarily clears either of us even if fwesnid is lying. That said i think this 1 for 1 trade would be bad for scum so i think we have to lynch pickaxe here. I really don't see the motivation for faking a guilty on a vt. VOTE: pickaxe

[votato]

I dont have my rb shot no

[votato]

On you.

[votato]

ok so i reread eyesott's iso. most of it is just fluffposting. here is most of the stuff that isnt fluff.

Spoiler: lets look at eyestott

VOTE: Eyestott



Thanks for the vote, eyestott!

votes self

VOTE: Eyestott for rolefishing

doubles down

Quit tempting me.

VOTE: Eyestott

for tempting Jolene

triples down. really odd.

mod hasn’t opened my role confirmation message yet that I sent about 48 hours ago, so I’m unsure what’s going on.

You sure you didn't confirm in the scum PT?

Oh that’s probably it

jokes again about being scum, but this could actually be a scumslip that hes laughing off.

I don’t think gibus is town.


And in the small chance he is, I don’t think Lylo is winnable with someone like gibus alive.

bloodthirsty, much?

Gibus hammering strikes me as a newbscum play. Imma check his site posting to see if this is potentially true

This is the only game gibus is in or has been in. His knowledge of lingo indicates he is an alt.
Therefore It’s unlikely his hammer is newbscum.
Hmm

odd progression.

I’m reading back on d1 now. I prefer DP right now
And on an unrelated note, I prefer Dolly Parton right now

hehehe

I am quite confident that Dolly is either the same alignment as gibus, or town and gibus scum.
As in, I don’t think scum Dolly and town gibus is likely.

wants to lump dolly and gibus together. this is super convenient for scum!eyestott

Apart from the wagon that was randomly started against me, no one has really provided any explanation as to why I'm scum, rather than that I just dont "look good".

The only thing I can think of is me accusing Quantum in the first RVS on day 1, which votato saw scummy, as I provided no explanation to picking Quantum. However, I explained my vote in 123, and this was all good.

This is the post that strikes me and scummy, mainly because of the way he brushes aside the case on himself

Now, it’s important for you to realise this, notty. I am quite bad at this game. I only recently started playing again, and I’ve had quite bad reads universally. So I place very little faith in my own reads. I’m much better at this game when it gets to lylo and I can help work a solve. Til then, I think my best course of action is find a solid townread, learn from them in how they scumhunt, and sheep them.

dont mind me if i just sheep someone townie the rest of the game. yikes.

I think it looks bad for blurry, especially if gibus flips scum. Also kind of bad for votato, paragon and yourself (the other two moreso than you notty)

this suggests that blurry and gibus arent scum together.

Still catching up. I will not be voting paragon.
Though, to be honest para, I misinterpreted your softie, so even if I were scum, I wouldn’t have picked up on it and NKed you for it.

Though if I were scum, I definitely would’ve NKed you anyway.

could be a paragon eyestott pairing

notty, I'm questioning everything. In my eyes, Para and Pete come out of this play looking town, Pete much more than Paragon.
My reads are still at like, a d1 state, because of how this game has played out. I have a gut feeling that the team is Blurry/votato/DGB, but this isn't substantiated by any proof, so please take it with a grain of salt.

i still dont have any reads! who should i sheep????

I'm tiptoey because of the cluster that was D2. I've not been in a gamestate like this before, so I don't want to push any of my reads right now out of fear that they'll be instalynched, ya know?

before i didnt have reads because i was sheeping, but now i dont have reads because i dont want people to die!!

I’m sorry Pickaxe! I tried to make a post earlier today, but I can’t figure out how to say what I want to say without futting my moot in my pouth
Ah, what the hell
I have reason to believe that the enemy team has a ninja.
Discuss.

ok, dats interesting

I’m a one shot investigative who hasn’t yet used his shot.

but actually, it contradicts this doesnt it? not using the shot means that he wouldnt have reason to believe theres a ninja...

[votato]

dammit, that last line should be inside the spoiler after the last quote.

[votato]

I really do think votato is town.

i really think you're town too

[votato]

I used my rb in hopes of stopping the NK.

[votato]

hmm sorry for disappearing. I do have an explanation, but now is not the time for me to give it. ask me again tomorrow. i need to go back and reread. i think i have an idea. UNVOTE: for now.

[votato]

If votato's idea includes lynching anyone other than me or fwesnid today, then he's #3.

my idea was actually to lynch me today. that way when i flip jester i win.

[votato]

VOTE: fwesnid
That's l-1 so let's not hammer if we aren't ready

[votato]

UNVOTE:

[votato]

i still have my shot.

[votato]

I used my rb in hopes of stopping the NK.

Explain.

1173 was a lie to deter scum from shooting me, which at the start of the day seemed pretty plausible. as the day progressed it became less likely, so i softed the lie with the "i have some info" post. thats why i didnt want to reveal it yesterday before deadline tho. now i safely have my shot to use going into lylo.

[votato]

better safe than sorry. I was starting to be townread by people. i guess watcher probably dies first, but i could see a world where you kill PR before IC. plus how am i supposed to know if fwesnid's claim is even real. i dunno, there are a lot of reasons its a good idea imo. I did the same thing in GnR as town (claiming a different night rose).

[votato]

@Mod, minor thing: thread title hasn't been changed from Night 4.

Who did you use it on last night, then?

On you.

Reaction test
Votato: why did you say you used it on Klick specifically?

[votato]

@Mod, minor thing: thread title hasn't been changed from Night 4.

Who did you use it on last night, then?

On you.

Votato: why did you say you used it on Klick specifically?

Ebwop: reaction test. Put that in the quote by accident

[votato]

im here but my next post is gonna require a lot of effort, and im not sure whether effort is worthwhile atm.

[votato]

It doesn't have to require a lot of effort if you're town. The question is not a hard one.

the answer is a long one.

[votato]

tl;dr: i think based on claims i have some idea about who scum is. i didnt learn much from the reaction test, no.

[votato]

anyone wanna guess who i targeted last night?

[votato]

why do you say KAAG?

[votato]

i blocked KAAG

[votato]

at this point theres certainly no point in no lynching

[votato]

VOTE: KAAG

[votato]

that claim from KAAG is a bit odd. why wait to claim his result if he had no result? also, he claimed BP. there was one other BP claim in this game, who from? scum.

[votato]

The same thing had me pause. There are little crumbs of things in both KAAG's and eyestott's play that I could see from a scum PoV, but the main difference is that I can also see them coming from town. Whereas a lot of votato stuff is just a head-scratcher if he's town.

thats just my meta tho. look through my completed games and see if you can understand. I'm just bad at this game and don't make sense. that said, ill go through and make a proper effort post likely tomorrow.

[votato]

also look at micro 938: butterfly mafia. i was scum and my scumplay there looks nothing like this. i efforted there, cuz i prefer to play scum.

[votato]

I've played with votato quite a lot recently actually (I'm Hoctac, votato), and his scumplay varies. There's a game I can't talk about, but the one that's finished, he was aggressive and wasn't afraid to push mislynches.

oh hey! well in that case you can speak to my meta pretty well. Low-motivation town!me, which didnt come out as much in my completed town games, since i was very new and bright-eyed.

[votato]

We're doing this huh. VOTE: gibus

It was nice playing with you all. Goodbye

Yay, #420 post for me

But first..

Let me get my final pagetop

i mean, based on reaction, at this point i believe the claim.

nice playing with you gibus. sorry it happened like this.

i think its pretty bad for town to have 2 lolhammers, yeah. its hard to to VCA in a normal situation, but here its gonna be a nightmare. Also, with no progression or time for people to post and make themselves scummy, its gonna be harder to develop reads. at this point my reads are largely still based on the time immediately after RVS. Theres been very little content since then.

Oh yeah, did you ever explain this, votato?

How did you go from scumreading Gibus to believing his claim because of that reaction he had to being hammered? It looked completely NAI to me, if not slightly scum-indicative.

i dunno, i feel like the one thing im actually good at is reading whether people are being genuine in twilight... that just seemed like he was sad newbie... 419 struck me as particularly townie.

[votato]

Like Pete said, you kinda feel helpless in this situation, 1 vs 1 when you're town. You've put more work in than anyone Klick, so don't overthink this.

To believe votato is town, you have to believe that his faked RB usage (which he claimed was on Klick, D4) was town motivated in some way, and that his refusal to post about it yesterday when he was appearing elsewhere on site is pure.

I think votato's play has been very questionable if town, but not totally outside of conceivable town range.

That's a very generous assessment.

I can't do much, all the evidence is in the past. I'll be blameless if we lose, but I really don't want us to. I'll check in every few hours if you have questions.

AtE after there's a guilty on you in mylo... is there a clearer scum tell?

[votato]

haha if i'd known you were hoctac in 938 id have killed you n1 probably.

[votato]

I'm now wondering why eyestott claims both parts of his role the way he did if he's scum and is somewhat expecting his buddies to die before LyLo.

Mmm the role claim was a big part of my suspicions. We have no reason to believe anyone is bp here. And it's a convenient reason to survive until lylo

[votato]

Fwiw Paragon I don't think I'll need this to drag on. Maybe another 2-3 days, but beyond that I don't feel like I'll get much worthwhile out of overanalysing. But if you want to take extra time to feel confident and then we compare thoughts, that's fine.

Mm, it's probably just looking like a votato vote. Let's see if votates can perfectly explain my issues in 1382.

Yeah, if eyestott is scum, he knows it looks real bad for him if Fwensid/Dolly both die before him and suddenly he has this convenient role that coincidentally combined two fakeclaims and was claimed after them. It's a strange route to pick as scum.

On the other hand if he's town, it's possible the scum just rolecopped him and then decided to base fakeclaims around his role. Might make their roles "fit" more setup-wise, and has the bonus effect of making eyestott look bad after they flip.

do you think a scum rolecop makes sense given the other roles in the game?

[votato]

that claim from KAAG is a bit odd. why wait to claim his result if he had no result? also, he claimed BP. there was one other BP claim in this game, who from? scum.

Why is that a point for KAAG being scum? You think two scum are likely to claim BP like that together? Also, he would wait to claim before you so that he can potentially catch you out if you claimed to have roleblocked me for whatever reason. Or roleblocked him infact.

1343 would be great to address btw. I'm guessing that's what your effort post will tackle.

Could you address this stuff, votato?

Also, the stuff in 1343. What are the thoughts/points you thought would be needed for this "effort post"? I don't get it.

i thought that the game might get cancelled since saladman went AWOL. I had seen mods get knocked to 0 modding experience after "failing to complete a game," not realizing that the listmod took over. I dunno if two scum are particularly likely to both claim BP. But we know at least one of the two BP claims is fake, and claiming BP is a really convenient way to explain being alive in lylo. that should address both 1343 and 1382, although i still need to make my long explanation of why i fake-claimed and why i chose to target KAAG last night.

[votato]

its not time thats the issue, its motivation.

[votato]

ok im working on my iso of eye/kaag.

as for my fake claim, at the time i said i used my shot there wasnt a whole lot of suspicion around me, so i thought i was a viable NK. as scum, why would i retract the fake though? as much as you all thought it was a bad play to use my shot that early, it seems like it attracted way more attention to me to retract, and that shouldnt come as a surprise. In addition to the fake claim no longer being useful yesterday, since i'd be able to get my optimal block off, I thought that revealing that i still had my shot would make me a possibly night kill, which would be helpful to town too, since I'm one of the three slots that needed sorting most.

[votato]

the effort post will show why i think i solved the game. it woulda been nicer yesterday, but for some reason we decided to put fwesnid at L-1 despite knowing that he'd likely self-hammer

[votato]

Spoiler:

Aaaaaaaand that’s the end of RVS, folks!

Darnit. I don't like it when people start arguing.

So Elbirn Jr, who we taking down first?

Pistol Pete? Potato? Someone who ain't talked too much?

Oooh I have a deal to make with you Dolly.
Let’s both treat eachother as confirmed town for the first half of Day 1.
Whaddya think?

it would be super convenient to have a reason to townread your scumbuddy the entirety of d1

Spoiler:

I don’t think gibus is town.


And in the small chance he is, I don’t think Lylo is winnable with someone like gibus alive.

Gibus hammering strikes me as a newbscum play. Imma check his site posting to see if this is potentially true

here eyestott is looking for a reason to lynch gibus. he continues to waffle on it for a bit, but then decides gibus is town without any reasoning.

Spoiler:

I think it looks bad for blurry, especially if gibus flips scum. Also kind of bad for votato, paragon and yourself (the other two moreso than you notty)

lets kill gibus, and then a gibus flip implicates three townies, one of them is implicated no matter what the flip is.

Spoiler:

Still catching up. I will not be voting paragon.
Though, to be honest para, I misinterpreted your softie, so even if I were scum, I wouldn’t have picked up on it and NKed you for it.

Though if I were scum, I definitely would’ve NKed you anyway.

interesting exchange that both says he would and wouldnt NK para.

Spoiler:

notty, I'm questioning everything. In my eyes, Para and Pete come out of this play looking town, Pete much more than Paragon.
My reads are still at like, a d1 state, because of how this game has played out. I have a gut feeling that the team is Blurry/votato/DGB, but this isn't substantiated by any proof, so please take it with a grain of salt.

I'm tiptoey because of the cluster that was D2. I've not been in a gamestate like this before, so I don't want to push any of my reads right now out of fear that they'll be instalynched, ya know?

i know everyone else has been giving reads and contributing, but i dont need to. cuz townies should never be giving reads or trying to solve.

Spoiler:

I’m sorry Pickaxe! I tried to make a post earlier today, but I can’t figure out how to say what I want to say without futting my moot in my pouth
Ah, what the hell
I have reason to believe that the enemy team has a ninja.
Discuss.

I’m a one shot investigative who hasn’t yet used his shot.

these two posts completely contradict each other. there's also still no reason to think there's a ninja, and i dont think a ninja fits with the setup. also theres hesitancy to fullclaim.

Spoiler:

I’m a 1-shot watcher. I didn’t use it because I had no idea who the mafia would target with their night kill.
And hey, I’m 1-shot bulletproof too.
I didn’t really “crumb” this game, even though I’ve done so in the other games I’ve been in that are now finished
Other than me saying that the mod didn’t respond to my pms at the start of the game. I was asking him if
A) I can use my watcher ability to target myself
B) I’ll be informed if I lose my bulletproof ability
Dolly and Fwesnid should be able to confirm the answers to each of these are no.

and then theres the fullclaim. we've already discussed issues with this. the BP sticks out. he said here that hed be informed if he lost BP. can anyone else self-target? uncharacteristic lack of crumbing. and then appealing to the two scum to confirm his claim for some fucking reason.

[votato]

the iso is pretty short and fluffy in general. that was the MOST relevant gamesolvey content. ill do Kaag next but ill need some time

[votato]

Looking forward to your version on KAAG.

that will probably have to wait until tomorrow. ideally we can at least discuss this part tho

[votato]

KAAG's iso is devoid of any attempts at scumhunting to an incredible extent actually. fluffier than eyestott's iso. fluffier than my butt even. and thats saying something...

Spoiler:

Basically, using the action last night in the way that votato did has no real town utility; his actions don't make sense if he's town. Meanwhile, they make a

ton

of sense as scum - claiming to have used it now instead of after his partner is lynched means he doesn't have to clear anyone as town. And he claimed he used the RB

after

Fwesnid claimed his guilty.

It's Pete/votato.

I've done the catching up I'm going to do. Read quite a bit, albeit skimmy and mainly as ISO. Not too many wall posts, made it easier.

That is also my current thoughts:

Pete/votato most likely.

Guess there's worth in further discussion, but can't see any point lynching outside Pete/Fwensid today, may as well be Pete.

This isn't just about the guilty claim: I found the interaction between Pete and Dolly after the "crumbing and definition of the word 'clear'" debacle to sound rather fake. Posts 1050 to 1060.

Dolly's neck was heading for the noose, and Pete found a comfortable middle-slot on the wagon. A thoroughly neccessary bus, is how I read it.

And makes zero sense that I can see for town!votato to RB Klick yesterday to

I used my rb in hopes of stopping the NK.

Hard to believe you actually thought Klick would be the NK.

although i think we were all on board with lynching pete due to the guilty claim, the reasoning of "it may as well be Pete" is kinda trash.

Spoiler:

Fwesnid seems like town from his ISO. If DGB wasn't clear, he'd be my top town read based on days 1 and 2.

I see Pete/Klick as at least plausible. I doubted it from the Dolly/Klick interaction on D2 but it could be scum theatre.

Klick, if this is coming from scum!Pete, what should I make of it?

So the 3-man is probably going to be KA, klick and votato, and I choose klick all day long.

fwesnid is town "because of ISO." not any actual posts, interactions, or reads. just a really cheap townread on a scumbuddy that most people townread.

Spoiler:

It's hard to believe Fwesnid, who I TR very strongly, has faked his report before he knew what my predecessor did last night. Therefore I suspect it's genuine. If I'm wrong and you do flip town Pete, I will re-read every word you wrote, as you suggest, with that fact in mind.

Love to hear now from the others. DGB in particular, as she seemed to scum read Klick on D2. And is clear.

Nobody has doubts on Paragon?

this post is incredible. "believe this guy because i trust him! also im gonna promise to read your iso but then not follow up because gamesolving is for peasant townsfolk. oh and btw lemme throw some quick shade at paragon to keep people paranoid.

Spoiler:

Klick is plausibly scum. However, the first thing I did after replacing was read a Blurry/Klick + Dolly ISO and their interactions on D3 didn't make me think theatre. Although, I've been fooled by theatre before.

votato: reaction to D1 hammer feels fake, his role claim worries me (what's with saying "x-shot...i'll reveal x if asked"?), his usage of his role with no discussion worries me, his lack of reasons why he used it on Klick worries me. A lot of things have to happen for RB'ing Klick last night to be a good idea, including winning a coin flip about which scum submits the NK. He's been on-site since then but not discussing it with us.

I saw you say he sounds newbie. I think you're right, but that doesn't make him town.

Paragon can be town today, maybe not tomorrow. Fwesnid will be obvious once Pete flips. I know I'm voting Pete today, so may as well at this point.

VOTE: Pickaxe Pete

some waffling, but no real analysis or attempt at gamesolving

Spoiler:

Of course he should lol.

The audacity of faking a guilty, having played well, and then trying to blame it on misreading mod communication.

There's no move scum won't try, eh?

well my scumbuddy is out, but id better distance to make sure no one suspects me. we all knew fwesnid was scum, this seems a bit forced.

Spoiler:

That won't be why your scum team loses.

To the two townies:

I'm done for the day. I think I know his partner, but discussing it just makes my watch even less useful.

I only replaced in a few pages back, so I'm not as invested as you guys presumably are.

He faked a guilty. We lynched on it. Is there more you need to consider?

am i gonna offer reads, reasoning, or helpful commentary to anyone? nope! just gonna continue to fluffpost and hope no one notices.

[votato]

i think thats enough effort for one night. i may attempt some VCA tomorrow, but maybe that would be better coming from an IC?

[votato]

Spoiler:

These sorts of things shouldn't require a long explanation that can be fabricated with a large amount of time. If you're town, you had a thought process, and it doesn't take long to give it.

VOTE: votato

^This though

I just don't get what this "effort post" will show, it's why I want to see it so much.

KAAG, you shouldn't stop posting just because it looks like we're lynching votato.

I'm happy to answer questions but I haven't been asked any. I checked in repeatedly. I didn't think cluttering up the thread while you guys were doing good analysis on the past days was helpful.

I am happy to do the "he said this, well you said that" thing if it will help you, but I tend to find come D6 that all the evidence is in the past.

Tonally speaking, votato is a lot more towny than KAAG. Content and action-wise (before these last few posts)... it's a different story.

I don't find votato's tone to be even remotely towny, but I have the advantage of reading it knowing he is scum. My tone is as ever. I have no alts: every post I have ever made on this site is under this account so you can check it.

the effort post will show why i think i solved the game. it woulda been nicer yesterday, but for some reason we decided to put fwesnid at L-1 despite knowing that he'd likely self-hammer

Paragon, how long were we in twilight? How long did he have? It was over 48 hours. He was posting elsewhere.

You haven't aked me about it, but regarding votato's posts on me:

1) When I joined the game, fwesnid vs Pete was established, before my first post. votato hasn't quoted me probing Pete about his thoughts on votato's RB claim (because that's scum hunting and would hardly help his cause)

2) After fwesnid was outed, I asked as many questions and tried to get content as much as anyone else that day.

3) My result from last night coupled with votato's lie meant I caught the scum today. No more hunting to do.

1. the questions didnt come off to me as gamesolvey. they were easy simple questions that didnt advance the gamestate.
2) you pushed fwesnid, but the way you did it came off as insincere and more as distancing than condemnation or digging.
3) the fact that town!you would know im scum doesnt let you off the hook for not doing any scumhunting up until now. and you havent done anything to make the case for why the others should believe you. you're just coasting, relying on apathy and inactivity to result in people not re-evaluating.

speaking of, it would be great if we could get people together and hold a quorum before deadline...

[votato]

We really cant afford to fall victim to confirmatioj bias here. I ask that the ICs take some time to review at least my own and eyestott/kaags isos. Maybe the other scum too. At this point i think ive done my job here. I found scum and ive explained how i caught scum. If you decide to lynch me, so be it, but dont blame me when i flip town

[votato]

i mean i agree that its really frustrating that we arent getting anything to work with from the people who have to make a decision. but at the same time, they need to carefully consider. it would be way more frustrating if they let you win just because they went with a scumread that came largely from me procrastinating and being disengaged. this isnt my scum meta. I now have two completed scumgames I can link. One was my very first scumgame, and I was kinda lost and then my entire team hardbussed me. In the second i was far more confident and led the town around by being very active. those two games are animals upick and micro 938: butterfly mafia. lately ive been getting a bit bored by towngames, so i've been far less active. if you really honestly think im scum, please come ask me questions and find out. its really frustrating to sit here helplessly while the clock winds down on us and apathy looks like its going to let us slowly drift to a scum win. engage with me!

[votato]

so you wait until day 6 to attempt any scumhunting, and then your "case" rests on my noobish attempts at getting the game out of RVS? I mean to be fair this was the third game i started i think, so i was super new at the time of those posts and I'll concede that it was not great play, but i do think my posting was consistent there... i talked about how people were overconfident and then made up bullshit cases arguing that people had bad grammar and were hitting on me. i was pretty clearly mostly kidding with 83. my votes after 83 werent great, but at the time i also didnt even fully understand the purpose of early day 1 wagons, so...

how about we compare my read progressions from those posts to now with your lack of any attempts at reads or progressions.

[votato]

haha if i'd known you were hoctac in 938 id have killed you n1 probably.

Why?

cuz i knew you from this game and from GnR and you played well plus the other players seemed to think you knew what you were doing. As newb scum, i was looking for people i knew to kill. thats why we picked the n1 kill we picked. i forget who it was, but i think someone who also played in GnR. as you saw in 938 my scum game is pretty basic and unrefined.

tl;dr: i think based on claims i have some idea about who scum is. i didnt learn much from the reaction test, no.

What exactly did you mean here by "based on claims"? Did you already address that?

yeah, the thing with the roleblocker. i thought it would be a strange coincidence that scum fake-claimed roleblocker before a townie claimed it, so it seemed like they were both fake-claims.

[votato]

ugh i wish i had been lynched earlier. im gonna feel really bad if town loses because of me

[votato]

tin foil hat time: what if KAAG really is 1-shot BP, and thats why scum thought that would be a good claim. that would even explain the exact question asked of the mod. i havent thought about it enough to really know if it makes sense.

[votato]

Despite my writing style? Wow whachu tryna say?

[votato]

this would have been my first scum game. compare my play here to my play in animals upick (my first scum game). there i died almost right away and was lucky not to be the day 1 lynch.

[votato]

Newbie 2004 is the game to which I was referring. I wasn't commenting on your play, more your posts in the dead thread, which certainly did not come across as "bumbling newbie".

i was town in that game, but my talk in that dead thread was mostly mechanics-related, which comes purely from the wiki and my own experience playing town on the site. that was also posted less than a week ago, while this game began a long time ago, when i was a bumbling newbie. some would say that im still a bumbling newbie now. comparing my play when i was new to my recent posting in a dead thread is rather disingenuous of you. Like i said, a better comparison would be this game (which began on Apr 25) to animals upick (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82907, began april 30th). In animals upick i bumbled about and was almost instantly caught as scum. My scum mates were able to save me by giving me a convincing fake-claim, but i still was the day 2 lynch. Compare that to this game where my play far more closely resembles my town game.

[votato]

tin foil hat time: what if KAAG really is 1-shot BP, and thats why scum thought that would be a good claim. that would even explain the exact question asked of the mod. i havent thought about it enough to really know if it makes sense.

Thought about it any more to see if it would make sense? What purpose would that solve?

I kinda agree with Klicks, votato's response to me after I cased him was very towny in tone too. Could look at his early game here and compare it to Animals, that should be useful.

i dont think it makes sense? theres no evidence that saladman did other fucky things with the roles.

[votato]

newbies dont really do setup spec, newbie games are semi-open. also, that game started after this one, so theres no way i could have possibly learned from that game and brought it here. my early game here should be as obviously scum as that one, maybe more. youre right that since there's a JK you probably have something stronger than just BP. maybe you're ascetic or something? did anyone claim an action that resolved on you with confirmation?

[votato]

kaag if you think i read as scum i don't think you've taken the time to read any of my other games. And you played well, there wasn't a whole lot to go on. In the end, i caught you because of your claim, and because there was so little to go on

[votato]

that's a strange gambit to run considering there's a vc fewer than 10 posts ago

[votato]

prodge. im here if you need me.

[votato]

gee gee. it was fun. sorry for lurking. i really dont want that to ever be a part of my town or scum meta, but the replacements did a really good job and made everything really complicated, so i got a bit frozen and took some time to reconsider my plan. i also want to apologize to my scumbuddies, this was not exactly the strat we had discussed when they were alive. i certainly learned a lot from this game. i feel like as scum we made a lot of sub-optimal choices, many of which were on me.

[votato]

for one thing, im a 1-shot voyeur, and we used that shot night 1, and could have had a lot of fun if we had all claimed 1-shot voyeur for example, or if we had done more with the two townie voyeurs.

[votato]

again, gg. was fun, especially with the replacements since the game until then was a bit sad. mafia PT is fine per me to release as-is

[votato]

yeah i did. i didnt even notice, i mixed it up and thought fwesnid claimed tracker. glad no one else noticed either (except the dead thread).

[votato]

Lol coordination