Open 62 - Strawberry Mafia - Game Over! before 568

[ShadowLurker]

I was put in this game against my will so I will try to keep on top of things but I'm very busy right now.

Will make a large post when I finish reading the thread.

[ShadowLurker]

As I read the game, I pick out interesting, suspicious, and protown posts and note them down in a document. I then assign positive points for towniness and negative points for scumminess.

As of the bottom of page 10:

Format is Name: Posts noted/Points

Peers/JamesThePhox: 1/1
Cephrir: 1/-1
scigatt: 1/2
Near/perfect628: 0/0
neko2086: 4/1
Xtoxm: 4/-5
Snix: 3/-1.5
malthusis/DizzyIzzyB13: 4/-4
Marmalade: 2/1
ThAdmiral: 2/-2
YvonneSeer/Ectomancer: 1/0

Currently most suspicious of DizzyIzzyB13. Most want a lynch on Xotxm. Think Marmalade is most protown.

[ShadowLurker]

Done with the reading.

Changes:
Minimal notes on both Peers/Smashy/JamesThePhox and scigatt, both need to start posting more.
I have a total of ZERO posts noted by Near. That is absolutely dreadful.
Both neko and Marmalade are most likely protown.
Xtoxm has moved up a bit (meaning more protown) on my list while Cephrir and Snix have both moved down.

DizzyIzzyB13

I find it interesting that everyone railed on DizzyIzzyB13 about the cop fishing, as that wasn't even what struck me as most suspicious. The biggest negative posts she got was for the discrepancy between posts 186 and 189 and her posts in general in response to Yvonne. I'd encourage everyone to read that.

It goes:

Yvonne makes the post "I'm lost. Where am I?"
DizzyIzzy makes a short post

four hours later

, not even mentioning Yvonne.
Xtomx says Yvonne would be a good lynch.
DizzyIzzy places a FoS on Yvonne, calling her lurky and suspicious.
Xtoxm places a vote on Yvonne.
DizzyIzzy unvotes with no explanation.
Snix votes Yvonne.
DizzyIzzy votes Yvonne, saying more pressure is needed.

This is just plain opportunism.

Xtoxm

First raised an immediate red flag when on page 5, Post 102 makes the post "Do we have a deadline?" Deadline is rarely a good thing, and certainly not 5 pages in. This goes unnoticed though. Repeats this more explicitly in Post 169 on Page 7 which is very anti-town. Moved up on the list however, for while getting into a bordering-on-personal argument with Cephrir, putting him on the list of people he thinks are likely protown.

I'm not going to analyze neko and Marmalade as I'm fairly certain they're both protown, and they are not in any danger so there's no point in nullifying some of my town tells by naming them.

Cephrir and Snix will come later, as I've given people enough to chew on and respond to for now and both of the faults I found in their posts were more subtle.

vote perfect628

[ShadowLurker]

Right. Qualitative info would better serve us. We currently have no idea which posts you're looking at and what makes you think they are scummy or not.

Thank you for joining, though. I'm not sure how one replaces into a game unwillingly, but, hopefully you'll find it worth your while to participate.

Those were just thoughts as I was reading.

I'm never going to list every post I picked up on though, as it's indirectly detrimental by nullifying a lot of the tells I use by letting people know about them and often unnecessary.


I like to withhold a lot generally, but if anyone wants further explanation then post what you want clarified and I'll see whether it merits a response.

[ShadowLurker]

Let's not rush the day, it has only just started.

And I want to make sure perfect checks in before the day ends.

[ShadowLurker]

That doesn't make it right or town, cephrir, he could just as likely be an impatient scum.

I stuck to Ecto because I believed he was fakeclaiming.

I hope you realize by now, regardless of alignment, that there wasn't a good reason to think he was faking.

]Oh... and if Xtoxm and Cephrir weren't already pushing the Izzy wagon as hard as humanly possible, I'd probably self-vote at L-1 so you could make judgements about who hammers and how... but since the scum are already there, it'd be rather pointless.

Threat to selfvote, that's helpful and protown.

So according to the logic of both of you, those can't be used as arguments as to why Izzy/Xtoxm are scum as if it's bad or just as likely for both scum and town, then it's a nulltell.

In the end I have to concur with the sentiments in JDodge's quote on Xtoxm.

JDodge is not in this game, who are you referring to?

ShodowLurker(post 515):I know how you feel, dude.

What is this referring to?

[ShadowLurker]

Still no promised content from perfect628.

And a two day math competition seems like a pretty lame excuse. Don't know whether to believe it or not but regardless, he said he'd be able to post.

[ShadowLurker]

Actually Dizzy, it obviously has a lot of bearing because it's kinda your entre case.

It isn't though. I'm sure you'd love to be able to play it that way.

We'd love to hear you case, then(or at least the answer to Cephir's 539, if he responded to you entire case).

One more thing: Stop with the victim complex(that's what it is). Cephir is not unduly making a case for you. Rather, he was merely saying what most of us were thinking. However you think you became the prime lynch target, IT'S YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT. Through the posts you made, you gave us an impression of nearly unbelievable scumminess. You know, if you wish, come back to this game in a couple of weeks(maybe when you become an IC) and look over your posts. If you can tell yourself honestly that you didn't look scummy, then I'm sorry. So, in summary, Lynch you wrongly, shame on us. Lynch you wrongly after you act in a way that would have you accused of being a blatant jester in a closed setup, shame on you.

This post sounds a lot like Scigatt knows Izzy is town.

[ShadowLurker]

Hello all, I'm so terribly sorry about my inactivity. I got caught up in USAMO stuff through wednesday, and other random things until now...Here is my analysis of the game thus far:

Oh, just a note to begin: I don't have all that much to say regarding the first few pages (relatively unimportant, imo), so don't be shocked that most of my argument is from later. I will say that I am rather sarcastic, however...

I must say that for much of the beginning of the game, I viewed neko as scum. He seemed to be incredibly controlling about each and evey aspect of the game, people posting and mechanics to name a few. Also, when I first read the idea of neko andxtomx beingscum buddies, I couldn't have agreed more. This was for several reasons: most notably, the way in which he tried to distance himself from xtomx early on, whereas xtomx did the opposite, labeling neko as protown. As the game progressed, though, I began losing this feeling...I'm not 100% sure as to why, but I imagine it has something to do with his "editorialising" and not really breaking much new ground.

Anyway, my suspicion of xtomx never really did die down. His unique combination of of short, Hemingway-esque sentences and groundless accusations (see 273 for the example I can easily find) made me very wary of him throughout, and I see no reason why a protown player would attack someone who was so clearly a bad cop (imo anyway). Everyone else was pressuring her to post more--he came right out and said she was scum. This in conjunction with the possibility of a pairing of him and neko earns him a

FOS: xtomx.

Then, dizzy goes on to do exactly the same thing, namely attack ecto. At this point, it was almost painful how obv it was that yvonne/ecto was the cop. Dizzy continues to act...let's put it strangely...for a while, but not necessarily suspcious imo...(see below)

Moving on, the next big event appeared to be, for me, xtomx's 360. wtf is that? That would have been enough for a vote had I been playing at that point. Come on, what town player would ever do that? He goes on to condemn the players whom I viewed as very protown at that time (ecto+cephrir)

Big FOS: xtomx

Now, the cop claim. Not shocking, and imo semi well played. It drew out dizzy's reaction, which solidified my opinion of her. She seems...crazy at best? I mean come on, there's a time to stand by your opinion but then there's a time to realize your opinion is very clearly wrong and let it go. Then, the vote of cephrir just ended it for me. I don't care what your alignment is, although I couldn't be more sure that you are scum.

Vote: DizzyIzzyB13

. She's now at L-1 no?

Now, in response to a Q by neko. I don't have a great read on the third scum atm...I could easily see it as xtomx, but that's really it. I will reanalyze some things soon, ie rereading my current suspects soon, trust me. I shouldn't be disappearing again.

Uh you just said DizzyIzzy was acting weird, not suspicious and then proceed to vote her?

And Scigatt wtf was up with that quickhammer?

[ShadowLurker]

vote perfect

perfect still has not explained his sketchy vote from yesterday and with more lurking, (Did you not read the thread during the night? were you busy nighttalking with scumbuddies?) I see no reason not to keep voting him.

Also don't like Scigatt after that post that sounded like he knew Izzy was going to come up town and the hammer ending discussion short after everybody had waited on perfect to post.

[ShadowLurker]

Did you not read my post yesterday?

This is what you had to say about Izzy

Then, dizzy goes on to do exactly the same thing, namely attack ecto. At this point, it was almost painful how obv it was that yvonne/ecto was the cop. Dizzy continues to act...let's put it strangely...for a while, but not necessarily suspcious imo...

How the heck does that translate into a vote?

[ShadowLurker]

Sorry guys I forgot I was in this game; post coming when I get home.

[ShadowLurker]

Why are you even in this game?

You've said repeatedly and even when you joined that you are disinterested in playing.

Let someone take over that wants to play...

im in this game because the mod forced me to like i said when i joined.

p sure that i have not stated it multiple times; only when i replaced in.

and our mod is inactive, why do you think perfect hasnt been replaced yet?

[ShadowLurker]

why are you in this game? all you do is try and rush the day saying it has dragged on too long. let someone who's interested in helping their side win play rather than someone who is interested in a speed game.

also nice opportunism there

[ShadowLurker]

So Xtoxm, is Scigatt scummy for also being put in this game against his will?

ShodowLurker(post 515):I know how you feel, dude.

What is this referring to?

When you said you were put into this game against your will.[/quote]

[ShadowLurker]

Now, the cop claim. Not shocking, and imo semi well played. It drew out dizzy's reaction, which solidified my opinion of her. She seems...crazy at best? I mean come on, there's a time to stand by your opinion but then there's a time to realize your opinion is very clearly wrong and let it go. Then, the vote of cephrir just ended it for me. I don't care what your alignment is, although I couldn't be more sure that you are scum.

Ok then I have 2 questions.

-If Izzy was scum, wouldn't she be more likely to let go an unpopular opinion as to avoid lynching? How was her not letting go of her opinion a scumtell?
-Why did the vote of Cephrir cement your view of her as scum?

You have promised a reread in four of your posts so far and still have not came up with anything substantial.

FoS: Cephrir

for his three non committal fluffy posts on Page 26.

Xtoxm you still have not stated your case against Snix, please do.

Snix, how am I on a high horse voting perfect? I have clearly outlined the reasons I think he is scum.

What I picked up on Snix and didn't post when I first read the game was the craplogic in post 92, and then he tried to downplay his vote in Post 191 and 251 saying it was for gut reasons after no one bit on the Cephrir wagon when as he clearly outlined in post 92, it was far from gut. Also he barely voted anyone in general (Only 3 people the entirety of the first two days) and scum are in general, more cautious with his votes.
The reason I did not post it was I wanted to see further interaction with Cephrir but his actions today seem reasonably protown.

[ShadowLurker]

If you paid more attention to my posts, you'd see when I replaced in i noted a couple of scummy things from Snix that I didn't want to expand on just yet. Those were the things I found. Nothing further developed from those suspicions and his play today has been fine.

[ShadowLurker]

SL and perfect are finally out of their personal vendetta's (read: Near OMGUS-arguments with slight fact here and there [reminds me of FOX News]) with each other--that's a good thing.

Um what are you talking about; perfect NEVER suspected me so how could we be OMGUSing each other.

[ShadowLurker]

I meant OMGUS without the vote, like as in I hate you, so I hate you too.

Perhaps I should have said emotional posting. Sorry for the error.

Uh I find perfect scummy, and I have clearly outlined my reasons why. It seems that you are trying to downplay my suspicions.

[ShadowLurker]

I meant OMGUS without the vote, like as in I hate you, so I hate you too.

Perhaps I should have said emotional posting. Sorry for the error.

Uh I find perfect scummy, and I have clearly outlined my reasons why. It seems that you are trying to downplay my suspicions.

I still felt that you were losing the focus of the Town (it seems like you and perfect are almost playing your own game there for a while), and bringing you back into the mainstream was a good move on Snix's part.

All my suspicions had been clearly laid out.

FoS: EL

especially if perfect is scum.

[ShadowLurker]

Then go back and find them.

[ShadowLurker]

Unvote Vote Xtoxm

[ShadowLurker]

can we get some mass prods...

[ShadowLurker]

Then, almost on impulse, he votes for Xtoxm. I'm not sure what's going on with him, but it may just stem from impatience.

Hardly, Xtoxm has been extremely anti-town all game. His refusal to qualitify a claimed read:

1. Made the fact he made up the read seem likely (scum don't have actual reads as they know who the scum are)
2. Was anti-town

In addition, perfect seemed inviable and we are under a deadline, and I believe No Lynch is a horrible option right now. Why? As with no power roles, we'd get nothing from the night. In addition, we have an overabundance of suspicious people right now versus a deficit. A No Lynch would just let Scum get rid of a town player, and leave us in the same position we are right now with one less voice of reason. No Lynch is only for if you think power roles would benefit from an extra night or there aren't many suspicious candidates.

[ShadowLurker]

[ShadowLurker]

@ShadowLurker:I mentioned that your case against perfect seemed contrived. I'm wondering: I s you suspicion of him based one just one post?

perfect has been less helpful than xtoxm. That's even more suspicious than his one meaningful post this game that was a lot of I don't have a solid read on anyone.

[ShadowLurker]

EL, your unhelpfulness these past few pages is essentially the same as what Xtoxm has been doing. Seeing as you want Xtoxm lynched, it seems awfully hypocritical of you to consider what he's been doing scummy when you're doing the exact same things.

Also we are 4 days away from deadline. I would be willing to switch to EL at deadline unless he starts seriously answering the questions posed. Withholding information is good at certain times. When you're under deadline and have already made the statement, and merely do not want to justify it is not one of those times.

[ShadowLurker]

FoS Ceph and Snix

Not going to elaborate until Xtoxm's alignment is revealed.

[ShadowLurker]

I didn't actually receive a prod, just checking in now..
Why was Ceph not prodded as he also hasn't checked in yet.

This comment from Snix:

Also, I'm pretty much screwed if xtoxm comes up town. I can't get out of a bad situation like this a third time.

Was very scummy. However, Cephrir's pointing it out was even more alarming as scumdrops like those are the ones you hold onto to see if the scum slips more.

Don't like a NL as I feel that there is an obvious kill target. Also, I want to hear armlx's thoughts before a Night occurs.

[ShadowLurker]

SL, I don't agree that pointing that out was bad. I don't always "wait to see if they slip more" so I can get together a huge, impressive case later. It may be more effective in getting the person you think is suspicious lynched, but I could have died overnight and maybe nobody would have noticed.

That isn't the point of holding your cards. The point was that what he did was a weak scumtell; however, if he had tried to say some BS WIFOM arugment today using what he said yesterday, it would've developed into a much stronger scumtell.

[ShadowLurker]

Also like I said, I don't support a NL as while I have many suspects (much too much for this point in time) I still DO have at least one that I am sure is town meaning there is an obvious kill target.

[ShadowLurker]

armlx hurry up and read

[ShadowLurker]

Snix and EL's votes on neko = BIG NONO

Leaning towards ELscum because of that move.

[ShadowLurker]

Vote Eldritch Lord

Person I thought was obvtown was neko and the only time I would think it isn't in scum's benefit to off neko is if EL is scum. (The WIFOM argument for his lynch is retarded)

[ShadowLurker]

I'm gone for this weekend and I am confident enough in ELscum that I will leave my vote there.

[ShadowLurker]

Wow, I go away for the weekend and there is a grand total of...one post.

Prods plz

Prodded neko and snix

[ShadowLurker]

I think Neko is a Town leader-and if he's scum, the way Town goes about following him is dangerous--Cephrir's ^^^ and /agree lining up behind Neko would be fine if they could contribute anything of their own.

Perfect is awfully quiet, stopping in only to announce his vote will stay on me over the weekend and that he will happily ignore any facts I may have presented while he was gone. It'd be a shame if scum hopped on and made this a quicklynch loss for Town while he was gone.

Snix is Town.

Cephrir is hanging back and /agreeing with Neko--a shame really since his earlier contributions before this lylo situation were far greater. Armlx is in the same boat.

Lynching me IS a mistake--but I stand my ground, Snix is Town. When I come up Town /headdesks of "we should have listened" will fill my ears and I will experience great joy. You can blame it on me all you'd like, 'He wasn't clear even though his predecessor was trustworthy." "He should have cooperated." But in the end all it will mean nothing, and you should have read, re-read and listened.

Call it an appeal to emotion, it is what it is, your descriptions have no impact on its state of being. You are making a mistake if your vote is on me if you are not scum. Review Snix again, and

think

this time--I have confidence that at least one of you will find it and turn this thing around in our best interest. While you're at it, review this wagon--draw your own conclusions but does it not seem a little too 'band-waggony' to be completely legit in a lylo situation? Maybe its just me.

That's it, that's all I'm offering you. Vote/Don't Vote/Vote Someone Else, here is my suggestion: Put everyone under scrutiny, let's make this day long--put some pressure on other players (but be careful so as not to set up a scumhammer) before you let your vote rest on me. A long re-read, a review, and some fresh opinions not involving me should be considered whether you're sure I'm scum or not.

Or don't do any of that, it's a shame really.

omg everyone but me is scummy!!! is not good play as town in this situation

[ShadowLurker]

Well, I said he's Town early on, before the no-NK. If I were trying to prove I was not scum by lying and confirming someone else Town I would've NK'd him Night 1. There was no way I could have foreseen the mod's decision about back-and-forth no-lynch/no-NKs. --This alone should clear me, but since it's still in the realm of circumstance I suppose I do owe you all some explanation.

Tomorrow. I love suspense.

More WIFOM.

And what Mod decision about back and forth NL/NKs? I don't recall seeing one.

[ShadowLurker]

And the supposed mod explanation?



Right now my theory is EL is scum and scum asked in the night what happens if this NL-NK cycle continues to know whether they should kill or not, and EL just slipped up.

[ShadowLurker]

I thought my vote was already on EL, my bad.

Vote EL

EL+Armlx I'm guessing.

[ShadowLurker]

woo go me