Mini Normal 2143 (Game over)

[Farkran]

Hello dear people, love to be here, i have taken a look at the playerlist before repping in and it pleased me

I read my rolepm but i didn't read the game yet. It's 12.15 am and i'm quite tired, but i plan to catchup tomorrow. I will immotivately assume that Norwegian is town and appoint him as my advisor for today. If you do a recap for me i promise i won't nk you.

-Farkran

[Farkran]

I can have two advisors

Like, the little angel and devil that appear on people's shoulders. Which one are you, cooldog?

[Farkran]

Holy shit it's Farkran, I like.

I remember your name and i am sure you are the alt (or main) of someone i have played with but i am not... recalling

Luna maybe?

[Farkran]

Vote Count 1.04

With 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to lynch.

Persivul (2):

Firebringer, NoPowerOverMe,

Firebringer (2):

NorwegianboyEE, Mohab500,

Porkens (1):

popopopopopopo,

NorwegianboyEE (1):

Blurryface3189,

Blurryface3189 (1):

Porkens,

Sakura Hana (0):

NoPowerOverMe (0):

Mohab500 (0):

Quick (0):

Fredrick A Campbell (0):

Drew-Sta (0):

CooLDoG (0):

popopopopopopo (0):

Not Voting

(6): Drew-Sta, CooLDoG, Persivul, Quick, Sakura Hana, Fredrick A Campbell,

---

Spoiler: Votes since last votecount not reflected above

Porkens: NoPowerOverMe.
Blurryface3189: NoPowerOverMe.
Quick: Sakura Hana. Fredrick A Campbell.
NoPowerOverMe: Fredrick A Campbell.
Blurryface3189: NorwegianboyEE.

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-06-01 21:30:00).

Mod notes:

Some people will get prodded/replaced if they don't post soon.

I see some factions are already in effect, but there is clearly no consensus and many people aren't voting yet

Why is this?

pedit: norwee why are you voting against a player who townreads you?

[Farkran]

Hmm, i see.

I definitely need more context. Based on the activity overview i'd like to hear more about frederick and popopo.

For now, good night.

[Farkran]

Both, really. But i'm particularly interested in people's opinions on them. I will iso them tomorrow if i have time after i catchup.

I'm trying to get a quick grasp of the gamestate but i'm not doing any progress, the communication is still hot here and i don't understand the relationships between posts until i read the past pages.

(yeah i'm still around here but i'll let you do more talking than me posting until i actually fall asleep)

pedit: ty

[Farkran]

I am fully caught up, here's where i am at right now:

TOWN

Sakura - strong metaread, also i like their stances so far
NPOM - the vehicle towards out of RVS
Porkens - this wagon had no reason to exist except pressure and i think the verdict is town
Frederick - expected less from a low-to-mid poster iso but the content is actually good
Mohab500 - towny activity, liked readlist in 622

^^^ TOWN CONFIDENCE ^^^

Cooldog - liked his entrance a lot although i'm quite distant from him with my reads
Firebringer - need to read him better, there's too much activity there to sort out with a single catchup
Norwegian - somehow i always dislike norwegian in normals but i have been sooo wrong before that i don't want to touch this base d1. This was as of page 25 or something - then improves around ~585, i feel confident about leaving him alive today, also cooldog vs norwee smells like TvT

--- TRUE NULL LINE ---

Persivul - bad slot due to interactions around him more than his participation (= none)
popopo - bad slot votewise
Drew-Sta - also bad slot votewise
Quick - 134-135 feels like resuming shitpost on purpose when the situation had recently evolved to a non-shitpost stage due to NPOM claim; all of their followups are bad takes to me. Looks scum by the manual.

SCUM

[Farkran]

VOTE: Quick

Prove me wrong

[Farkran]

Yes

And a lot of his followups and takes. 363 is an astrologist comment, the 1v1 vs frederick is terrible on his side and i don't understand his read of popopo.

pedit: you've not proven anything though

[Farkran]

NPOM's VT claim was the reason the game moved out of RVS. I often do that in my town games.

WRT porkens i'm talking about votes around post ~250 and onwards. None of those looked serious, and the wagon died on its own without need for scum intervention. Also i like most of porken's takes and votes so far.

Persivul has been talked about, but hasn't gathered enough attention to make a read on him - means scum is probably not interested in pursuing the topic.

---

Can we focus on consolidating on a wagon before we have to flash someone 2 days before deadline? My lynchpool is currently {popopo, drewsta, quick}

[Farkran]

Yes

And a lot of his followups and takes. 363 is an astrologist comment, the 1v1 vs frederick is terrible on his side and i don't understand his read of popopo.

pedit: you've not proven anything though

More than this and the list? Please ask direct questions, so i can get a better grasp of the gamestate while we have a dialogue

[Farkran]

I will have to read that 1v1 better, so far i only have isoed my lynchpool. I need to draw a better player profile of quick to see if he would be the type to be emotionally involved in his reads

I don't like any of his takes though, and my opinion is that most if not all of them are a fight against gamestate progression rather than helping it

Like, making bullshit claims, restarting shitposts, not believing easy claims ... All of this seems to be smoke in the town's eyes.

[Farkran]

Hi quick, what's your up to date opinion on popopo and drewsta?

[Farkran]

Hmm. I can relate to that. After worktime i can take a better look at quick to see if i am wrong, meanwhile let's get a wagon going on

VOTE: drewsta

Anyone has an opinion to share on this newly born wagon?

[Farkran]

I re-ISOed quick in light of the recent comments. There are some bits of progress in there, i guess i don't particularly like his playstyle and approach to scumhunting. I may let him live for today.

I also reread Drewsta and i am happier with my vote there. The ISO seems to be a load of questions without conclusions, his only scumread appears to be Norwegianboy which is meh at this point in the game, even i formed some factionality in my reads by being here less than 24 hours. I am known to form reads quickly, but even then there must be some middle ground.

[Farkran]

vote:porkens

sakura's point about shading without voting or even FOS is good, and firebringer is probably town.

This seems to be another bad take which i'd like explained, what did Porkens do to scumread him?

[Farkran]

Drewsta should claim now

[Farkran]

Deadly serious

Wagon is L-2 and sakura hana as a potential vote

[Farkran]

Porkens wagon better than drew wagon by far.

Alt again sorry

Why? Talk to me about porkens and drewsta, because i have them swapped in my reads

[Farkran]

But why do you scumread porkens and/or townread drewsta?

[Farkran]

i don't really think a wagon speed equals scum pushed? Scum don't just decide to jump people unless its to win the game usually.

I think it shows most people don't agree with u right now.

Sure. So let's lynch the guy we disagree with - that makes sense.

Excuse the sarcasm but can you see how frustrating that is? Basically divergent views being scorned and pushed aside is a great way to blend scum with town core.

I tend to disagree with speed to wagon. Scum want to get to night. VC's are always scruitinised down the track.

Please scrutinize your wagon, because so far you've only been defending yourself.

Who's scum on your wagon?

[Farkran]

Actually?

VOTE: Farkran

This is a good vote.

No, but it is a good reaction.

It's what town does when they don't understand the gamestate and need to reassess.

Drewsta vs norwee i still pick norwee (as a townread)

[Farkran]

There's something about Farkran that feels different about his last game with me but I can't put my finger on what.

A lot of things are different than our last game together, but not my alignment

[Farkran]

You guys are pinged for the things you should read into

Lack of knowledge and ego pride are the downfall of every town, i experienced this on my very skin in my last games.

Drewsta should claim.

[Farkran]

lol, ok

Drewsta should still claim, have fun wagoning me if you think i'm scum

[Farkran]

Farkran - I'm L-2. Why should I claim?

Because claiming isn't the mother of all sins. You are being wagoned, this wagon must get to somewhere useful or die so we can move on.

You may also talk to me about why norwee is scum though

[Farkran]

You're wrong on porkens

[Farkran]

Farkran - I'm L-2. Why should I claim?

Because claiming isn't the mother of all sins. You are being wagoned, this wagon must get to somewhere useful or die so we can move on.

You may also talk to me about why norwee is scum though

I disagree. It makes NK's a done deal and doesn't provide insight to town the next day for why a player was killed.

That to me is a very bizarre thing to say and not in towns interests.

By your logic, why not have everyone claim now?

Tbh roughly one month ago i made a post about massclaiming early so i wouldn't be against that, but it's not -always- useful.

Secrets are scum friends, not town's. They can only kill 1 at a time.

[Farkran]

Lock a scumread into a claim that he cannot change in later days

I don't see what's bad with that.

[Farkran]

There is no wifom into locking your claim so that we can move on from your wagon

But i don't even want to insist on that particular strategy, at this point in time i think you're scum and i want your head - if people disagree, i can listen to why

pedit: porkens i don't think that's a good vote

[Farkran]

Sigh

ok, i give up, i really do not have the guts to stand another ego battle in a normal game

See you tomorrow

[Farkran]

...
WRT porkens i'm talking about votes around post ~250 and onwards. None of those looked serious, and the wagon died on its own without need for scum intervention. Also i like most of porken's takes and votes so far.
...

Two questions.

1. How did you know the wagon died without scum intervention?
2. If none of Porkens' posts around post 250 and onwards looked serious, how is it that you like most of Porken's takes and votes so far?

1) Because no counterwagon was created to save porkens. If you take a look at the VC history, you can see that the players voting around porkens are always the same, and there was no attempt to divert the attention from him.

2) You misread - votes against porkens weren't serious, not porken's posts. This is a direct follow-up of point 1

[Farkran]

Based on the overnight posting, i think that

- Quick is town, the reactions are genuine
- Cooldog is town, he's actually one of the very few who is actually making an effort, i'd be surprised to see him flip scum in a gamestate like this

I am dropping my confidence on:
- Sakura, that change of mind was based on very little reason. You know how i play, you should know what to expect. I crumbed at you quite straightforwardly.
- Firebringer. There's really too much noise in his ISO, i'd like you to tone it down a bit and talk about actual content.

All my other previous reads stand, although popopo improved.

[Farkran]

I suggest that we consolidate our votes onto something, please. So far the only wagon that had any significance was Drewsta, every other wagon never reached more than 3 votes.

This might actually be indicative of town!drew, but so far the only plausible scum i could see on his wagon would be norwegianboy, but then again i liked all of his mid-to-late day 1v1s (FB and CD).

Can someone provide a towncase for firebringer?

[Farkran]

Usually there's a V/LA banner on the account name, so everyone would know by looking at his profile or any post from a different game

I liked the catchup though, i think the guy is town. I'm not particularly fond of my 1st impression scumreads atm, i still dislike drewsta and i might add firebringer to the list. I smell a powerwolf.

[Farkran]

Quick really has a surface level playstyle, but it's town

Cooldog and persivul are also town for the effort in maintaining the game on the right track. With a gamestate like this, scum would be suicidal to make an effort in scumhunting when almost nobody else does that.

The guys we should pay attention to are those who thrive in the shitfest and either refuse to dish out actual content (i.e. drewsta) and those who don't commit to anything (i.e. firebringer)

Nopower is town for the claim

Mohab is weird because she knows how to fakealert L-X but then says she has no clue about what she should do, but it's not a valid lynch today imo. There is effort coming from there too, maybe not enough deductive experience to survive in the shitfest

Frederick, popopo, sakura, norwee are currently in my null/nulltown area

Porkens still town

I am kinda tired to see the same errors from town over and over again and i can't bother to take leadership after repping in 30 pages post-start when nobody would listen to me anyways. I'm still waiting on a claim from drewsta

Otherwise ask me questions

[Farkran]

The timing and nature of that claim is suicidal as scum. You don't lock yourself in a VT claim to move out from rvs unless you are town

[Farkran]

I already provided a read on you, and on the subject of our discussion, which is all the answers you should be interested in

Making snarky comments to the purpose of appearing better than other players is pointless, i don't care about fueling your ego and i'm not interested in lynching you today so either wagon me or move on

[Farkran]

Hmm. I can relate to that. After worktime i can take a better look at quick to see if i am wrong, meanwhile let's get a wagon going on

VOTE: drewsta

Anyone has an opinion to share on this newly born wagon?

Just BWing and throwing votes around for really no reason at all.

Do you plan on updating that read on me, or are you going to continue to SR me for SRing you?

Did you misquote?

[Farkran]

Because i mean if you were talking to me, it's been a while since i'm not scumreading you and i have been saying it at least three times in my most recent posts, so i don't really understand your last comment

[Farkran]

Do you plan on updating that read on me, or are you going to continue to SR me for SRing you?

Actually?

VOTE: Farkran

This is a good vote.

No, but it is a good reaction.

It's what town does

when they don't understand the gamestate and need to reassess.

Drewsta vs norwee i still pick norwee (as a townread)

Based on the overnight posting, i think that

-

Quick is town

, the reactions are genuine
- Cooldog is town, he's actually one of the very few who is actually making an effort, i'd be surprised to see him flip scum in a gamestate like this

I am dropping my confidence on:
- Sakura, that change of mind was based on very little reason. You know how i play, you should know what to expect. I crumbed at you quite straightforwardly.
- Firebringer. There's really too much noise in his ISO, i'd like you to tone it down a bit and talk about actual content.

All my other previous reads stand, although popopo improved.

Quick really has a surface level playstyle,

but it's town

Cooldog and persivul are also town for the effort in maintaining the game on the right track. With a gamestate like this, scum would be suicidal to make an effort in scumhunting when almost nobody else does that.

The guys we should pay attention to are those who thrive in the shitfest and either refuse to dish out actual content (i.e. drewsta) and those who don't commit to anything (i.e. firebringer)

Nopower is town for the claim

Mohab is weird because she knows how to fakealert L-X but then says she has no clue about what she should do, but it's not a valid lynch today imo. There is effort coming from there too, maybe not enough deductive experience to survive in the shitfest

Frederick, popopo, sakura, norwee are currently in my null/nulltown area

Porkens still town

I am kinda tired to see the same errors from town over and over again and i can't bother to take leadership after repping in 30 pages post-start when nobody would listen to me anyways. I'm still waiting on a claim from drewsta

Otherwise ask me questions

Quick, you should take a break and take time to think because you're not paying attention and this will hinder your judgement ability

[Farkran]

My first impression scumread was based on you being fighting against the gamestate, and i stand up to that, but after ISOing and seeing how you react to things in real time i think it's part of your player profile as town. I don't fancy your playstyle, but i can relate to that because i am also a high ego player. I decided that this kind of play is more likely to come from town with a player profile like you have, and i've been pretty straightforward about it whereas you were still thinking i was scumreading you - you are an impulsive tunneler, which is why you should take a break and reassess. You can take this advice or keep thinking that you are the only one doing good and everyone else is crap - one path will make you feel satisfied postgame, the other will make you just feel bad. Your choice.

As for drewsta, i have talked a lot about him as well. His post are defensive in nature, there's no solve attempts, overall the content/posts ratio is low especially in the early part of his ISO. After he has been wagoned up, he started to dish out more, but the posting quality is still lackluster which suggests that he is struggling to make credible reads. I want a claim because drewsta is a slot that i don't want to sort later, locking himself into a position that may be verified over night is how we progress in terms of information as town - if the claim is unsatisfactory, it's also a good lynch for today.

I am also willing to switch to firebringer, as long as we can form some consensus before we get to 24 hours to deadline and scum is allowed to lolvote anything because "it was eod".

[Farkran]

Drewsta can you just claim so we are able to move on?

[Farkran]

Doctors can never heal themselves, that's not a normal mechanic iirc.

The wagon against mohab is terrible anyways, we should get back on drew

[Farkran]

Firebringer might be town after all

Quick is... forcing my hand, i am having a hard time confirming a townread when he does anything he can to play antitown despite a genuine tone

Drewsta, your turn

[Farkran]

I'm here, catching up

[Farkran]

Did a lynch already happen?

[Farkran]

Who?

[Farkran]

I'll reread why mohab was lynched so quick but based on 1926, why didn't you lynch persivul?

[Farkran]

Tbh i don't think mohab is scum, but i don't know why she would selfhammer as town

[Farkran]

I'm trying to reread quickly. I see a bunch of votes for no reason and then a selfhammer which is like the worst possible way to play the game regardless of the flip.

The wagon was {sakura, popopo, firebringer, mohab, frederick, norwee, mohab} am i correct?

[Farkran]

Firebringer is probably town

[Farkran]

That wagon very likely contains scum regardless of flip

If it flips red they probably planned the selfhammer and hardbussed

If it flips town it's terrible play but scum would enjoy that

[Farkran]

I'm not sure if you would consider the votes to be for no reason in context.

I see no scumcase of mohab except the lolhammer which is not even AI in this context

It's a scumfueled wagon

[Farkran]

I skimmed them, wanted to post thoughts before kerset wakes up

[Farkran]

Porkens/mohab are disaligned

[Farkran]

Porkens/mohab are disaligned

(Means either TvT or TvS, never SvS)

[Farkran]

Why did you vote mohab?

[Farkran]

Agreed on FB today

Why sakura?

[Farkran]

Persivul needs to claim immediately

[Farkran]

Don't quicklynch before a claim. In this situation a claim is essential and might spell the difference between victory and loss.

[Farkran]

That we don't lynch before persivul claims. A tracker only produces soft guilties and it's obvious that the claimed investigative would die regardless of persivul being scum or not.

[Farkran]

I'm not saying we won't lynch persivul, i'm saying he should claim first. Discussion is useful. If he happens to flip town i want to know what he has to say before he dies.

[Farkran]

This is not open or mountainous, only 2 PR died, there might be more. Persivul is very likely scum, but do you disagree that there is an offchance that he flips town? Why would you lynch him before he has spoken up if he is? Or in general, why would you assume that it is a good idea to quicklynch in this gamestate? Associatives can be easily formed by simply speaking up, and i want persivul to speak up. He will have to post sooner or later, even if caught scum, otherwise he gets replaced.

Once he has talked, we can lynch. Are you guys in a rush? Do you have a date?

[Farkran]

Norwee what do you think of popopo right now?

[Farkran]

popopo and norwee, if you are so certain that persivul is scum, who do you think are his partners?

[Farkran]

Mohab's attitude has left me really dejected and demotivated.
At first I thought she was town, then she started trolling and I felt that I was being mocked until at the end I scumread her because of CD.
And yesterday I thought we had solved the game and then, not really.
Now I'm really lost as to who could be scum, and im not in the mood right now to figure out where I'm going wrong.

Why are you not considering persivul?

[Farkran]

Also for the record i think firebringer is town as for what he did yesterday and today

Less sure on popopo, i dislike the noncommittal attitude accompanied by the lynch-happy behavior. That's where i would solve after persivul

Norwee and sakura are players who have pinged me the wrong way in the past but in this game idk

Persivul is likely scum caught by frederick, but i still want to hear what he has to say

Porkens is also very likely town, wagons against him still make little sense to me

I think NPOM claim could be valid but idk

If persivul is scum, quick might be bad in retrospect but idk

[Farkran]

Porkens is also very likely town, wagons against him still make little sense to me

why

I think the game would have rolled out differently if porkens was scum. I'm more inclined to believe that there was scum voting against him d1. Which is also why if we intersect the VCs i come out with {popopo, sakura, norwee}. Sakura wasn't on drewsta though, so i wouldn't know.

popopo is really suspect to me rn.

[Farkran]

If i have to take a guess scum in there would be within NPOM, Porkens, Farkran.

Then again this is a very bad take of the current gamestate, sakura.

Why do you think NPOM fakeclaimed VT?

[Farkran]

frankly me/norwee/sakura/NPOW i think is good hard townlock group.

This is not a good townbloc though, i can only see Firebringer as a solid member of that group, and maybe npom. Norwee and sakura are still in the grey area.

[Farkran]

popopo is really suspect to me rn.

Why?

VCA

Look at it by yourself, i'm interested in your opinion of popopo actually

[Farkran]

frankly me/norwee/sakura/NPOW i think is good hard townlock group.

This is not a good townbloc though, i can only see Firebringer as a solid member of that group, and maybe npom. Norwee and sakura are still in the grey area.

id bet this entire game on Norwee and Sakura town.

Why?

Because they agree with you?

Not trying to be sarcastic, i'd just like to understand what makes your read on them this strong and solid, because mine isn't. I'd much rather bet my game on you being town rn.

[Farkran]

Eh... it's ok i guess, it's not a focus for today, just saying that i'm definitely not sold on norwee and sakura being town right now. But i really don't know.

I wouldn't lynch norwee or sakura before popopo anyways (not counting persivul)

[Farkran]

Quick, i sincerely ask you to move on from firebringer

We could talk about norwee and sakura though. And popopo.

I find it fishy that they are on all the top wagons and always first in line to end the day quickly and inefficiently.

[Farkran]

VOTE: Persivul
Idk, i just... not only I have no idea who the other scum might be right now, I dont feel like playing mafia at the moment.

hard to concentrate on anything right now tbh

You guys should post a readlist though

Please

[Farkran]

Well ok then, one scum caught.

[Farkran]

@popopo you need to claim now

Serious stuff

[Farkran]

@popopo you need to claim now

Serious stuff

How about mass claim? Don't you usually ask for that? Or do you have a specific reason for him to do so?

Yeah i do

[Farkran]

Everyone

DO NOT CLAIM

before popopo claims, and wait for me before claiming

[Farkran]

Town Neapolitan Neighbor

reporting in.

N1 result = Firebringer VT
N2 result = popopo NOT VT
N3 result = Sakura VT

Firebringer is a 100% green check

I was in the hood with mohab and porkens. We all claimed during n1. After mohab died, porkens had absolutely no reason to let me live, especially after the tracker died (meaning that there is no protective role in this game). Also, i claimed my pool of possible targets in groups of 3 each night (n1 i said i would check in fire/norwee/quick, n2 i said i would check in popopo/norwee/sakura). Neither i nor any of my announced targets died.

I still think it wouldn't be beneficial for for NPOM to claim VT very early into d1 so i just believe he's town. This is reinforced by persivul being a goon -> increasing the chances of the other scum being power roles. A scum power role wouldn't claim VT d1 when he could be subsequently neaped/tracked/watched. Locking yourself into a d1 VT claim without knowledge of possible investigatives would be terrible as scum.

Leftovers: {quick and norwee} who should always be lynched next. popopo non-VT check on quick is actually interesting though. 4 non-VT (tracker, encryptor, neapolitan, neighbor) is definitely the cap for this game, with two non-gated investigatives town does not have more power than this.

VOTE: popopo

[Farkran]

i crumbed REALLY HARD that firebringer was town in d2 after i have been scumreading him in d1 i'm surprised this hasn't been noticed

[Farkran]

porkens can also very easily produce my crumbs as i have always highlighted them in the hood

[Farkran]

I don't even care about being lynched today tbh, game is solved by lynching popopo > quick, and if it's not quick it's norwee

Easy as that, once i flip green there's nothing much to discuss more

[Farkran]

Town Neapolitan Neighbor

reporting in.

N1 result = Firebringer VT
N2 result = popopo NOT VT
N3 result = Sakura VT

Firebringer is a 100% green check

I was in the hood with mohab and porkens. We all claimed during n1. After mohab died, porkens had absolutely no reason to let me live, especially after the tracker died (meaning that there is no protective role in this game). Also, i claimed my pool of possible targets in groups of 3 each night (n1 i said i would check in fire/norwee/quick, n2 i said i would check in popopo/norwee/sakura). Neither i nor any of my announced targets died.

I still think it wouldn't be beneficial for for NPOM to claim VT very early into d1 so i just believe he's town. This is reinforced by persivul being a goon -> increasing the chances of the other scum being power roles. A scum power role wouldn't claim VT d1 when he could be subsequently neaped/tracked/watched. Locking yourself into a d1 VT claim without knowledge of possible investigatives would be terrible as scum.

Leftovers: {quick and norwee} who should always be lynched next. popopo non-VT check on quick is actually interesting though. 4 non-VT (tracker, encryptor, neapolitan, neighbor) is definitely the cap for this game, with two non-gated investigatives town does not have more power than this.

VOTE: popopo

Literally this

[Farkran]

Also i don't get how this clears Porkens? A 3 person hood would most definitely have a scum in it. It's been in every game i've played with that amount of people in a hood.

Honestly, i claimed my role n1, first among the three, and i had popopo in my scumpool ever since. If porkens is popopo's partner it makes less than zero sense for him not to kill me or AT LEAST inside my pool of announced targets to invalidate my results.

[Farkran]

Also i don't get how this clears Porkens? A 3 person hood would most definitely have a scum in it. It's been in every game i've played with that amount of people in a hood.

Honestly, i claimed my role n1, first among the three, and i had popopo in my scumpool ever since. If porkens is popopo's partner it makes less than zero sense for him not to kill me or AT LEAST inside my pool of announced targets to invalidate my results.

Why did you claim your role in the hood if you thought there was a very real threat Porkens or Mohab might be scum and kill you?

Because when i repped in they were already talking in the hood and i found their exchanges towny, so i went ahead and trusted them. If i died that same night, at least 1 hoodie should have been town and avenge me. After mohab died though, i still survived instead of the tracker (and now sakura), when my role is clearly a higher threat to the scumteam than either of them and porkens could have walked away cleanly because nobody in the main thread would know

[Farkran]

Also godfather is not a normal role

And tbh the other town powers are kinda crap, i don't think the game is unbalanced the way it is. Bad luck for the scumteam with frederick and my checks.

[Farkran]

It literally does not matter who's the lynch today between me and popopo, as long as you lynch one of us two

The rest of the game will follow

As for quick's claim, yeah it's useful to an extent, i'm fine waiting for that

UNVOTE:

[Farkran]

they could both be neopolitan. One scum and one town. Its weird to think that scum randomly decided to claim Neo when we had a real neo in game.

Nah, i have probably been rolecopped this night

[Farkran]

I'm waiting for quick to claim lol

I still appreciate the effort though, i wouldn't want to see scum conceding

[Farkran]

Two identical roles in a normal game wouldn't pass revision

[Farkran]

Well let’s lynch outside the neos then

No

[Farkran]

D4, 7p alive, lynch one
N4 random town dies
D5 5p alive (lylo if you lynch me instead of popopo, but then you lynch popopo so it's an illusory lylo regardless - otherwise lynch quick)
N5 random town dies
D6 3p alive (true lylo if the game wasn't over after quick, in which case lynch norwee)

[Farkran]

in which case lynch norwee

Why?

leftover

[Farkran]

ok i just sat down wiht a big tub of hagen daz and reread the thing

my crumb

By the way how is this a neap crumb?

[Farkran]

Let me map out two worlds.

World One (popop is town and we lynch him).
Night 4 Quick Dies (unless scum but lets assume not for this)
Day 5 lynch Farkran
Night 5 Another town dies (lets say me since i know i am town)
Day 6 last three [Porkens/NPM/Norwee] Probably lynch NPM here? Not certain.

World Two (pop scum)
Night 4 Farkran Dies
Day 5 Lynch Quick [lets say flips town just for sake of argument]
Night 5 FB die
Day 6 Final three [Porkens/NPM/Norwee] Probably lynch Norwee in this world.

This is correct, and by the way i will repeat myself:

If popopo is a true neapolitan and i am scum, it means that quick is also either scum or a town pr. However, if he is a town pr this town would have 5 PRs which is a very rare event in a 13p mini normal (

check for yourself

)

[Farkran]

porkens is a neighbor

[Farkran]

neighbor isn't a pr u noob

technically named, not power

but it's still strictly not VT, check for yourself when it happened that town had >4 named roles

[Farkran]

ok i just sat down wiht a big tub of hagen daz and reread the thing

my crumb

By the way how is this a neap crumb?

This was a serious question btw

[Farkran]

and ... how is that a neap crumb?

pedit: what?

[Farkran]

Real question: how am i supposed to notice a crumb for haagen maz (an US product)? Also i genuinely didn't know that neapolitan was a type of ice cream.

Note: i am from italy, i googled up neapolitan on google.it and the first result is this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neapolitan_language

[Farkran]

I will say... farkan told us he was neopolitan 3 hours after popopopoo’s crumb

VOTE: unvote

My question was in response to this btw

Like how am i ever supposed to notice a crumb that pertains strictly to the US market in less than 3 hours? I claimed n1, even if i was scum i couldn't possibly have rolecop results at the time.

[Farkran]

lol, ok

i did my job anyways, if town manages to screw this up after i literally handed the solve on a silver plate i don't know what else to do

2 am here, good night

[Farkran]

A good night of sleep is an awesome thing to clear your mind. I wanted you guys to realize a couple things while we wait for quick:

1) The whole hagen maz case is based on me noticing the crumb in less than 3 hours and decide to steal the neapolitan claim instead of going of a different claim that wouldn't conflict with my knowledge at the time. Claiming town neighbor would have been immensely easier, for instance. Remember that all of this happened before n1 results were resolved, so both town and scum had absolutely no knowledge of each other's roles or results.

2) I've been producing consistent results and reactions, whereas popopo did not. Check post 1333 (day 2) and follow that up with posts 1982+1983 (day 3), then tell me if this is how a neapolitan who checked me N2 would react to a NOT VANILLA result that night. Compare it to how i switched my read of Firebringer during d2 after i checked him, and how i insisted on FoSsing popopo during d3 because i got that not VT result.
2a) Moreover, there is no trace of a sakura result crumb during d2 or d3 - literally none, whereas i crumbed all my results as soon as i had them in case i was eating NK.

3) I was the first to ask popopo to claim today, i made it pretty clear that i had a soft guilty on him (2093).

4) My results contain a conftown clear on Firebringer, who confirmed it. Why would i, as scum, counterclaim a neapolitan that would nail my death (either today or tomorrow) AND at the same time produce a conftown result which makes the game easier for the town if i get lynched today? Compare this to popopo results which contain no clear whatsoever


I mean, i don't know how much you guys want to overthink this, but seriously the only thing that holds popopo claim up is that hagen maz post and

nothing else

.

[Farkran]

No, what's holding it up is that it's more likely that you would find popo's crumb and fake claim more than him to fake claim and for you to be a real neo.

Let's talk about this.

Disregard the fact that i didn't know what hagen maz (or even the neapolitan word) was until today, it's fine if you don't believe that because you aren't in my head - just take into account that it makes your theory less likely, not more likely. Now however, tell me how many times you have experienced: 1) scum noticing a town crumb almost immediately; 2) use that crumb to fakeclaim the same role in a hood

And compare that to how many times you have seen scum rolecopping a town power and use that to save their ass when they are caught guilty

How can you get these things statistically backwards is beyond me

[Farkran]

Well that's an obvious exageration.

Riddle me this. If pops is scum and rolecopped a town neo, why would he claim it if he knew he would be counterclaimed? Why not claim something else?

Because he was caught scum today, he knew it and went for a role that would make his claim believable

A claimed tracker has already died, meaning there is hardly another tracker-like role, and also there's hardly a protective given that their kill went through

[Farkran]

That crumb might very well be a random post. I hardclaimed in the hood, no crumbs.

And there's the fact that his behavior in the following days looks literally nothing like a neap with his results

[Farkran]

If town is lynched today you have 1 mislynch left

If scum is lynched today you have 2 mislynches left

[Farkran]

The difference is that if the lynch is correct today, scum has to waste nk to kill the town one, alternatively town has to waste a lynch to kill the scum one

[Farkran]

If town is lynched today you have 1 mislynch left

If scum is lynched today you have 2 mislynches left

incorrect; if we mislynch town today we have 0 mislynches left. if we lynch scum we still only get 1 mislynch.

5p lylo is fake

Any lynch today will always produce confscum one way or the other

[Farkran]

Any lynch between me and popopo*

[Farkran]

Town Back-up Neapolitan

Very interesting. This is probably true and it's how scum learned about neap. Quick has very likely been rolecopped n2, which is why popopo chose to claim that result.

5 town named/PRs is a lot, although a backup and a simple neighbor could make sense since encryptor is a meh role to begin with. I'm inclined to believe this claim, which means scum is more likely in norwee or npom. I find it super weird that porkens would let me live under these circumstances.

[Farkran]

Scum backup neapolitan? Nah... if there's enough room to lynch norwee and quick, i suggest norwee first now, if you decide to lynch me instead i hope the rest of the town will be able to figure it out, i will be dead by d5 in any possible case

VOTE: popopo

[Farkran]

A good night of sleep is an awesome thing to clear your mind. I wanted you guys to realize a couple things while we wait for quick:

1) The whole hagen maz case is based on me noticing the crumb in less than 3 hours and decide to steal the neapolitan claim instead of going of a different claim that wouldn't conflict with my knowledge at the time. Claiming town neighbor would have been immensely easier, for instance. Remember that all of this happened before n1 results were resolved, so both town and scum had absolutely no knowledge of each other's roles or results.

2) I've been producing consistent results and reactions, whereas popopo did not. Check post 1333 (day 2) and follow that up with posts 1982+1983 (day 3), then tell me if this is how a neapolitan who checked me N2 would react to a NOT VANILLA result that night. Compare it to how i switched my read of Firebringer during d2 after i checked him, and how i insisted on FoSsing popopo during d3 because i got that not VT result.
2a) Moreover, there is no trace of a sakura result crumb during d2 or d3 - literally none, whereas i crumbed all my results as soon as i had them in case i was eating NK.

3) I was the first to ask popopo to claim today, i made it pretty clear that i had a soft guilty on him (2093).

4) My results contain a conftown clear on Firebringer, who confirmed it. Why would i, as scum, counterclaim a neapolitan that would nail my death (either today or tomorrow) AND at the same time produce a conftown result which makes the game easier for the town if i get lynched today? Compare this to popopo results which contain no clear whatsoever


I mean, i don't know how much you guys want to overthink this, but seriously the only thing that holds popopo claim up is that hagen maz post and

nothing else

.

This is my case against popopo, do what you will, i feel like i did my job in this game

[Farkran]

Norwee did good, but too lynch-happy for my town standards

There is a post in the dead chat about it

[Farkran]

Actually i was referring to my existing solve though, i never outed my tesult in the dead chat

[Farkran]

I think Farkran just always suspects me.

This is so true

But the real reason why you were in my solve is because you were PoE, as i said somewhere in d5

Npom and porkens were never scum, i cleared FB, so it's just you and quick

Pedit: norwee you have to roll scum with me, trust me you're not going to complain for inactive mates lol

[Farkran]

Yeah, inactive mates when i'm scum tend to kill my morale really quick.

Me too, it's sad

One of the main reasons why i like playing scum is make friends in the scum pt

[Farkran]

Mohab you had actually good accuracy with you reads

If you fix your tendency to play antitown you could be a great player

[Farkran]

Being a PR helps

But nightplay is part of the game, by intuition or RNG a town investigative can get correct results and change dayplay drastically.

As for the setup, i don't think it was particularly townsided compared to average. Scum was cursed with terrible luck.

[Farkran]

Did anyone notice that both scum and hood were single minded? They had the same opinions on everything.

This was good play from us i think

[Farkran]

I really need to host a game.

I promise unimaginable amounts of fun

[Farkran]

Not yet

[Farkran]

Neighbors aren't really considered true power roles and so don't really factor in to setup balance

They do when there are 3 town that can strategize and mafia would have no clue what they are doing. Sure they would theoretically be suspicious of a mafia in the group, but when there isn't. AND one of the neighbors has a power role. It opens the possibility for the "Farkran claims investigative PR, if he don't die then all of the neighbors are likely hard confirmed town" strategy.

I agree with this, but i'd also like to say that it's part of this game's balance. Town power actually wasn't that high. Just imagine if the tracker didn't hit the killer: how different was the game going to be? What would i have done with my nonVT check on popopo if i didn't know how many PRs town had?

We only had 2 soft investigatives, no protectives, no autoconftown roles such as masons or ICs. I made a choice to trust my hood, and the tracker hit the spot, that's what led town to victory. If we repeat this setup a million times, i think the outcomes will be balanced, probably slightly more scumsided than the average normal game (which is usually townsided to begin with)

[Farkran]

I can say a bit more later, if you're still interested.

I still want to know why doctor was weaker then backup.

And yes i'm super interested in a followup to reviews. I love setup spec, review processes and game theories in general

Actually could you (kerset or nsg) link to the setup review thread, if there's one?